Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Who are you? Are you what you do? Are you where you're from? Are you your parents? Are you your neighborhood? Are you your talents? Who does God say you are? All of these questions target the same thing: identity. Who we are is the one of the most critical questions we try to answer as we navigate our lives, and the foundation for how we see the world. And the world is quick to answer it. So how do we, as mentors, speak identity over our mentees? How do we speak THEIR identity over them and not OUR identity? Zach and John unpack this topic in this week's episode.
Show Notes
Who are you? Are you what you do? Are you where you're from? Are you your parents? Are you your neighborhood? Are you your talents? Who does God say you are? All of these questions target the same thing: identity. Who we are is the one of the most critical questions we try to answer as we navigate our lives, and the foundation for how we see the world. And the world is quick to answer it. So how do we, as mentors, speak identity over our mentees? How do we speak THEIR identity over them and not OUR identity? Zach and John unpack this topic in this week's episode.
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Mentors and mentoring leaders, Zach Arce here with the You Can Mentor podcast. I got 3 things that I would like to ask of you today. Number 1, if you are a mentoring organization and you would like to be on our podcast or learn more about the best practices of mentoring, please reach out to us, www.youcanmentor.com. You can send us an email, zachzach@youcanmentor.com, or stephen, that's with a ph@youcanmentor.com. You can also find us on social media.
Speaker 2:Give us that DM and we'll get back to you. We just wanna get to know you, and we wanna learn more about what you're doing in your communities to advance mentoring. And we believe that interaction leads to innovation. So let's work together and advance the team in through mentoring. Number 2, if you know of someone who would benefit from the You Can Mentor podcast, please share our podcast, share our information with them.
Speaker 2:That would be super helpful. And then lastly, if you could rate our podcast on Apple Podcasts, give us that 5 star. It will help spread the word about mentoring and, you can mentor podcast. Because we really do want every mentoring org in America who is trying to make disciples through mentoring to know about us. We wanna get to know about them so we can learn from them and work together to help kids reach their full potential.
Speaker 2:So that's what I got. Please do those things. Reach out to us. Share and rate. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2:You can mentor.
Speaker 3:Welcome, listener. My name is John. I get to be here today with you, sitting here with my friend, Zach, who runs this thing.
Speaker 2:Welcome, listener. That's how you started it. That's it. I gave you one shot to start this thing, and you started it out like it was a like it was a show on public broadcasting show.
Speaker 3:Has already been established, so they they know us. They know you. They don't really know me. I've only been here a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess we I guess that we gotta roll with it.
Speaker 3:I did wanna say this, that welcome listener to the podcast that reminds you, you may not be able to speak French or you may not be able to build a carburetor. You may not be able to, you know, make decent spaghetti, but you know what you can do?
Speaker 2:You can mentor.
Speaker 3:How about that?
Speaker 2:Okay. That's good. Alright, listener. Now that you are thoroughly introduced to the podcast, let's continue on with our pillars of mentoring, John, shall we? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Take it. Take it, my friend.
Speaker 3:I'd give those.
Speaker 2:Well, just, like, what have we been talking about the last couple weeks?
Speaker 3:Man, we have been talking about identity, purpose, and community. K. To really kind of unpack these things, to understand them, to then apply them to our own lives and our own hearts, then and then be free to do that into the lives of our mentees so that these people can be healthy. Right? So these people can understand all that God has for them and to live lives that that they were destined to live.
Speaker 2:We started out with the story of David and Mephibosheth Mephibosheth. Okay. Talking about just the way that someone can give someone identity, purpose, and community. We followed that up with just kind of the the the role of the farmer, the role of the miner, the role of the tour guide, and just how those three things are ways upon which we, as mentors, can invest into our mentees. Gives us a new mindset.
Speaker 2:Gives us a new perspective on how to invest and build relationships with our kiddos. Last week, we talked about what?
Speaker 3:Last week, we talked about what did we talk about last week?
Speaker 2:Ed Hart hands. That's right. The 3 levels
Speaker 3:levels of teaching. Yes. That's right. So that we understand something, like scripturally speaking, that it it kinda hits us in the brain first, and we agree with it. We we understand it, and then it trickles down into our hearts.
Speaker 3:It actually becomes part of the very formation of our of our Christian being. Okay? And then from there, it moves out into the world as we serve head, heart, hands.
Speaker 2:That's right. I love it. Today, what are we talking about, John?
Speaker 3:Today, we're gonna get a little bit deeper into identity, and I think we're both really excited about this. I am really excited about it. We're so excited. I got choked up for a second.
Speaker 2:We were talking before this podcast started about how we could probably talk about this for 17 hours.
Speaker 3:This could be a podcast about identity, and we'd be fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We just talk about it hours every week because it is that important. Yeah. It's everything.
Speaker 3:It is. It really is.
Speaker 2:So tell me just what is your identity? What's your take on it? How did this become so important to you, John?
Speaker 3:Well, I think because identity can be so easily confused, and it can be mishandled in a way. And I was intrigued by what we're gonna talk about in a bit just in terms of many things when we talk about how God has given us something and maybe how the world also works to identify it and how that can be tricky. And so it's so important as we do talk about identity and understand our own identity, and then as we get to speak about identity or we get to encourage identity into someone else, I just I think it's really important that we have a firm understanding of these things and we're we're living a certain way, right, based on what scripture tells us, based on the experiences that we've had as a mentor. Again, in a way, if we're not careful, we can make we can have some missteps in this. And I want us to be just real real careful when we think about how we how we process our own identity, the importance of that, and then as we speak into someone else's as well.
Speaker 3:So I think we've got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2:I think the primary question of identity is who are you? Exactly. And such a simple question, extremely difficult to answer. Who are you? Are you what you do?
Speaker 2:Are you where you're from? Are you your parents? Are you your neighborhood? Are you your talents? All of these things, and the world is quick to fill in the answer to that question, but God has an answer to that question as well.
Speaker 3:Definitely. Definitely. So it really begins with identity, and that's why we do wanna make this such an important topic to talk about that identity is who you are, that it is the very bedrock, right, is the foundation of what our life is. Just to cut to the chase here, I don't think we can find a better definition of who we are than child of God. To be an image bearer, to be created in his image, to be that level of of uniqueness and and to be special, you know, it goes back to Genesis 1.
Speaker 3:God is out there firing off creation. He's loving it. He says that every day at the end of the day, it's good. It's good. It's good.
Speaker 3:And then at the end of day 6, when he may and when he makes us in the very image of himself, what does he say? He says, this is very good. This is this is the best that I've made so far. Why? Because it is the one part of creation that I have made that I can relate to unlike anything else in creation.
Speaker 3:And so you guys, we've got to start off at that to say and this doesn't well us up with any kind of pride. This doesn't make us compare ourselves any better. I'm not gonna go outside and and look at my dog now and say, look at you. But instead, we understand that, man, we get to enjoy being made in this image. And so when we look on our fellow brothers and sisters, we've got to see that first and foremost.
Speaker 3:We've got to see not only the potential of someone's life of what God can work in them, but just to know, hey, this is someone that God made in his image, and that's unique and that matters. And so if I can have this person in my life understand that they've been made in God's image and and are loved by him at that level, we we believe that's a game changer.
Speaker 2:And society is quick to put a put a value on someone based on just a number of things. So the kid who's growing up in a low income community, the kid who his skin color looks a certain way, the kid who is failing school, society is going to look upon them in a certain way.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 2:And they're going to say, he is a, she is a, fill in the blank. They're going to put an identity on that child based on how they perform. The same way if you come from privilege, if you come from influence, if you come from a family where you kind of have everything. Let's say you're college educated. Let's say that you're a, you know, you are a CEO who is adding value, you are making money, you have a big house, you have all of these things, society's gonna put an identity on you as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And it's our job as believers to say, okay, how does the Lord see you? And dear God, please change my heart, change my perspective to see this person how you see them. Because to God, he sees the CEO, he sees the person who is on drugs, he sees the prostitute, He sees the stay at home mom. He sees the kid who's growing up in a tough place.
Speaker 2:He sees them all the same as his children, as his beloved. When he looks down, he's saying, that's my child. And if any of you have children, you know what it feels like to look down and to see your child. It's this undescribable feeling. And what an incredibly sobering opportunity we have to look at a child and say, you are my beloved.
Speaker 2:I love you. I care for you. I'm here for you. I'm going to spend time with you. Why?
Speaker 2:Because not who this world says you are, but who God says you
Speaker 3:are. Mhmm. Amen. That's it, man. That's the good stuff.
Speaker 2:So my favorite story of identity comes out of Matthew 3, and this this story is in every gospel. So if you read the Bible, which I highly encourage you to do, then you will hear the story of Jesus being baptized. And I'm just gonna read it to you. Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?
Speaker 2:But Jesus answered, let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he consented. And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were open to him. And he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him. And behold, a voice from heaven said, this is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.
Speaker 2:So keep in mind that this is at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry. In fact, he had not done a single thing up until this point. He hadn't done a miracle. No one knew who he was. He was just a guy who's 29, 30, who was working as a carpenter, who was minding his own business.
Speaker 2:He had done nothing that was noteworthy. He had done nothing to draw anything to himself. But then he gets baptized, and he comes up, and God says, hey, I love you for who you are, not for what you do. This is my beloved son. I love him not because of performance, not because of talents, not because of skills, but because he is mine.
Speaker 2:And that's everything.
Speaker 3:That's it.
Speaker 2:So if God bestowed identity on Jesus before he did anything, what a great opportunity we have as mentors to do the same thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's the model, for sure.
Speaker 2:And this is what I think is so interesting. What happens directly after God bestows what I believe is the most important thing on his son, identity? What happens? He gets sent into the wilderness to be tempted for 40 days. In my opinion, Satan saw this and said, okay.
Speaker 2:Jesus just received something that's gonna rock his world and change every single relationship that he's gonna build from here on out. I've gotta do something to distract him. So he came and he attacked him. Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, it says, full of identity, full of what his father said to him, is able to withstand this. And then what happens?
Speaker 2:Well, Jesus begins his ministry. In power, Jesus starts doing the will of God. So it's identity, it's temptation, but then it's walking out in power. And I believe that if we can give our mentees identity, yes, the world's gonna come after them, Satan will tempt them, but if they can withstand, with our help, with our support, then they're gonna begin their ministry and power.
Speaker 3:For sure. And I think this maybe maybe to put it this way, how do you jive with this, like, this idea of the burden of the mentor? Because I think a lot of this I feel like a lot of it when we when we talk about identity, it kinda comes down to this idea of what we as the mentor kinda have to kinda have to carry with us. So just as you mentioned, like, belonging precedes behaving. Right?
Speaker 3:Jesus you said it was nonperformance based, that he was blessed, that he was identified as as the son of God before he did anything. And so when we think about it, this idea of belonging before behaving as opposed to behaving ourselves into belonging is so incredible. Think about that whenever you consider some of these communities in our world, some of these groups that would say, hey. Listen. If you wanna be a part of this, you know, these are the prerequisites.
Speaker 3:You need to look like this, or you need to do this. You need to have achieved this. These are the things that you need to acquire. And once you do that, then we will accept you into this program or into this community. And I think this is one of the burdens of the of the mentor to say, hey.
Speaker 3:Look. Before we talk about behavior, these things that you do, these choices that you make, I need you to know something that you belong.
Speaker 2:Belonging before behaving. And that's a that's a giant statement. And our kids today are looking for some place to belong. I mean, guys, just look at society today. Our kids are just searching for someone to say, hey, come sit at my table.
Speaker 2:Hey, come be a part of what I'm doing. Hey, just come be with me because you have worth, because you have value. And if they have that, they're going to behave a certain way. And if they don't have that, they're they're gonna behave in a certain way. Sure.
Speaker 2:And so what a great opportunity we have to help someone feel like they belong, to feel like they matter, to feel like they have worth and value. What a great opportunity we have to make someone feel the way that God feels about them. Because when God sees this child, when God sees the kid that you're mentoring, he is saying, I want this kid to be a part of my family. I'm gonna pursue them. I'm gonna do anything I have to do, including sacrifice my own son to give this kid a spot in my family.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And then to think about even though that, you know, let's say that you're investing in the life of a of a kid and and then they're just making poor choices. You know? You'd think sometimes that, hey. Look.
Speaker 3:If I can communicate the fact that that I'm welcoming this person into my community and that they belong with me no matter what, but then they start making those those choices. Doesn't that kind of begin to put a strain right on that sense of, oh, wait a minute. You know, I I told you, like, hey, I gave you the keys to the kingdom. You know, how is it that you'd start making these these choices that aren't aren't good for you? You know, that's, again, one of those burdens of the mentor to say, oh, hey.
Speaker 3:You know what? I wonder how long I'm gonna be able to continue to to say that this kid belongs. Right? In spite of their behavior that that doesn't that doesn't match up to what we'd hope, which which would be healthy choices and good choices when they they they're given that sense. I think that happens too.
Speaker 3:And so all the more important as we kinda talk about what it means to kinda have our our our own identity set so that we can be so that we can be faithful, so that we can be patient, so that we can be long suffering in this relationship that might not be real fruitful. You know, again, none of these things are magic bullets. Right? The concept of belonging before behaving sounds great, and and we would completely agree with that. However, is it foolproof?
Speaker 3:Is it going to be the trick, you know, that that the kid's gonna make great decisions based on the fact that they have a place? It may not be. But, again, it comes back to us to say, well, gosh, how patient are we going to be? You know, how long will we kinda go? And, hopefully, we would we'd be pretty patient for a good good amount of time.
Speaker 2:So the first part of us as mentors instilling identity into our mentee. The first step actually doesn't have anything to do with the mentee at all.
Speaker 3:No. But it has
Speaker 2:to do with us as the mentor.
Speaker 3:When's the last time you're on a plane?
Speaker 2:Pre COVID? Like, 2 weeks ago. Really?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Where'd you go? Florida. Well, goodness.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to Colorado Springs next week to see my mentor.
Speaker 3:Look at you.
Speaker 2:Steve Allen.
Speaker 3:Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:What's up, Steve?
Speaker 3:I have not flown, man. Because then again, though, I'm a driver.
Speaker 2:I You're kinda I mean, you're you're older.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're cheap. Yes. You're a lot of things.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Don't tell me what to, like, don't tell me what to do. I mean, you're you know, don't tell me to take my shoes off.
Speaker 2:No. You I wouldn't be surprised at all if you drove around the United States in a in a caravan in the next 10 years. Dude. I mean, you're a nomad. Dream.
Speaker 2:You're just you're you're the exact opposite of me. Man. And I love it.
Speaker 3:All I wanna do is hook up that Airstream to the back of our van and just go.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. You're an Airstream guy.
Speaker 3:Well, anyway, when we think about flying, you know, what do they tell you? You're sitting there in your chair. Buckle up. It says, hey, parents. If in the event that you see these breathing masks fall from the ceiling, make sure to put on your own mask first before going to your child and putting on theirs.
Speaker 3:Why is that? Well, because if you die, then your kids helpless. You're not gonna be good to anybody. Right? Right.
Speaker 3:And I know that so there's something inside us that says, well, wait a minute. That's selfish. Right? What shouldn't the first inclination be to serve them? But you think, actually, you know what?
Speaker 3:You're doing you're doing them a disservice because if you are not in a place where you need to be, if you don't have a certain level of health, then how are you going to be in any way good for them? So having a personal IPC established well before initiating a mentoring relationship even is what is needed. So let me ask you a question. We've talked about this relationship with David Mephibosheth. What if when David summoned Mephibosheth into his presence, before he was able to give to reestablish Mephibosheth's identity, to give him purpose, and to share in community.
Speaker 3:What if David needed something from Mephibosheth? What if what if David was feeling so insecure at the time that he said, hey. Listen, Mephibosheth. I I need from you to make me feel like I am I'm substantial and that I'm generous. I need from you to to make me feel that I'm powerful.
Speaker 3:This this story would have played out in a much different way. Right? The beauty of this story and one that's that's really integral to our relationship as a mentoring, as you said, even before we we initiate a relationship with a mentee, is to have the foundation of our identity so set and so secure in the Lord that we don't come into that relationship in any way needing. And I want to speak to be careful when we talk about this as well in terms of what we need, because I do think that we have I do think that that that it's still a two way relationship in a certain way. However, that's why it's important that we talk about this, that we're that we're not seeking identity.
Speaker 3:Right? We're not soliciting purpose, and we're not looking at community in an unhealthy way as a mentor to a mentee.
Speaker 2:Okay, John. So you can't give what you don't have. Right? Definitely. So in regards to making sure that you, as a mentor, have your own identity solidified before investing into a mentee,
Speaker 3:I think I said that right. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But what are some ways, some tangible practical ways that you've seen this go poorly? So so I'll start. I just did that thing where I asked you a question, and then I'm going to answer it. But I have seen a mentor who's lonely who needs their mentee to fill that gap. And that sounds extremely unhealthy because it is, but I have seen that happen before.
Speaker 2:What are some ways that you've seen it?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, doing student ministry, I can say that I had a really great younger youth worker get real excited about being able to start a small group. Right? And so what I what I saw this worker do is kinda go through the youth group and kinda cherry pick some of the students, you know, for certain, just that she that she really connected well with and that I felt like, okay. Hold on though. You know, these are natural relationships, and that's great.
Speaker 3:I don't wanna discourage that in any way. However, then there was this kind of group within the group. Right? And then and then it turned into well, listen. Someone else has asked to kinda come into this, you know, Thursday night small group that these kids are having this great time.
Speaker 3:Right? They're, you know, eating together. They're enjoying wonderful community. However, pretty soon we realized that that that that community started becoming kind of exclusive. And man, for me, that that became really dangerous within our group to say, wait a minute.
Speaker 3:There there can't be a year in and year out. Because, again, that goes against this idea of, well, you gotta click the boxes, you know, to be worthy. We don't do that in youth ministry. We shouldn't do that in in really any relationship we have, but but certainly in a relationship where we are investing in someone else. And so just as I wouldn't kind of go into the skatepark, you know, through the chance that I get to do to do ministry to teenagers at the skatepark, I also wouldn't want to kind of go in that to that situation with that same approach of kind of valuing or devaluing based on what I see or even the connections that I can make naturally in relationships.
Speaker 3:But another roadblock that we want to be careful about when we go into a situation like that is that we kind of compromise our identity or that we realize that maybe in a certain environment, we feel like, oh, we we don't like what we kind of feel in that. So case in point, let's say I'm a 48 year old skateboarder, which I am. Alright. Which there's a little bit of irony there, but I'll own that. So I go into the skate park.
Speaker 3:It's important for me to realize that I don't I don't stop being a 48 year old, even though I get to enjoy an activity and be in a community that I've enjoyed since I was 12 years old. You know, in some ways when I enjoy skating, it's like I feel like a teenager again, you know? But what good would I do would I be to those teenagers that I'm around if I was acting like or if I had the mindset of 1 of their one of their peers. Right. Because you know what would happen?
Speaker 3:I'd start getting competitive. You know? Now I was never like a board thrower. Back in the day, I don't know if you know this in skate culture, but you got different personality types. You got different motivators.
Speaker 3:And so there are some people who skate and they can skate really well. But I tell you what, when they are not successful on the board, you know what they do? They take it out on their board. Do they they chunk that board? They'll jump on that board.
Speaker 3:They'll punch that board. It's the funniest thing to see. It's I've never really gotten it, but I get it because it's this aggressiveness that you put into skating. And so when you're not seeing the results that you would you hope for when you're riding your board, you know, you take it out somewhere. How sad would it be to see what if you drove by the Waco skatepark and you saw John out there yelling at his board, you know, punching it with that sense of competitiveness.
Speaker 3:You might see a younger kid do that and just think, okay. Well, that's that's what they do. It's it's a bummer. But, again, they've got a lot of, you know, rage maybe in that moment. They don't really know where to put it.
Speaker 3:For me, though, what you'd hope to see, I would hope, is someone who's a little bit more controlled and who realizes, oh, this isn't a guy who's out there seeking his identity, thus trying to be a successful skateboarder, but instead he's out there for the for the relationship that he can form with these guys. So just a quick example of how it can go sideways pretty quick if we're looking for something that we that we maybe shouldn't be looking for out of these relationships.
Speaker 2:So don't don't be a thermometer. Be a thermostat.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Don't change due to the environment, but instead set the temperature for the environment. That same thing has happened to me. Like, I hang out with a kid, and I'm like, well, this kid likes this kind of music, or I know this kid's seen this movie that may might be a little bit inappropriate, but I've seen it too. And I'm going to in an effort to connect with them, I'm gonna stoop down to their level, and I'm gonna play this song that is extremely inappropriate. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But I'm gonna do it in the in the name of connection. Don't do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. But okay. Now you bring up a really interesting topic of that that idea of of how to relate to right connection because we all want connection with our mentees. I think we want connection everywhere we go, honestly.
Speaker 3:So when we think about that, I think you have to have some discernment when you could say, oh, you know what? Anytime that I do say that this is a good thing or or, you know, show something in media, what you're really doing there is you're endorsing that thing. And so I do think that it is the work of the mentor, and that's wound up in our identity of knowing what our identity is that we would not mentor, and that's wound up in our identity of knowing what our identity is, that we would not compromise it to a point where our words would change or what we would endorse would change in the effort of because, again, it's all about intent. Like, man, I really intended to connect to this kid. So I found myself, you know, using different language than I would usually use or or or listening to something or viewing something that maybe I I typically wouldn't.
Speaker 3:And if we're thinking that we're using that as a mechanism or as a lever to relate to a kid, it could backfire on us as well.
Speaker 2:In order for you to give identity, the most important thing you have to have is your own identity.
Speaker 3:And and for that to be set. That's right.
Speaker 2:For you to see yourself as a child of God, and that comes through your own personal walk with Jesus. That comes with being encouraged and being sharpened through a faith community. That comes from doing everything that you know how to do to make Jesus a top priority in your own life, because you've gotta be filled up. You you have to know that you know that the world will say certain things about you. There there are temptations, but the most important thing is not what people say, it's what Jesus says.
Speaker 2:And Jesus says that you're a child of God. He says that you're highly valued. He says, I love you not for what you do, but for who you are. And so we, as mentors, our primary job is that, is to take care of yourself and to make sure that you have the right perspective, you have the right intentions, you have the right motives, and you're mentoring with no strings attached.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Remember the tour guide. Right? You can't take somebody that you're not willing to go yourself. It's a crummy tour guide that wouldn't actually be standing with you in the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 3:You know? So we have to make sure that we're in that place if that's the place that we're trying to take a student.
Speaker 2:So as a mentor, you're secure. You're seeing yourself how God sees you. You're a child of God. And then now it's time to instill that identity, to impart that identity into your mentee. Now, someone once told me this, and I think it's real good, that identity so often in the perspective of this world is I am what I have, I am what I do, and I am what other people say about me.
Speaker 2:Those are the 3 ways that most of us get our identity, and that couldn't go any more against how the Lord gives us our identity. So why don't you just talk about first steps in regards to a mentor trying to impart identity into their mentee?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So first off, why don't we just kinda understand that the the comparison between real identity and maybe a counterfeit or a false identity? Real identity, first and foremost, if we're saying that it is it is that you're a child of God, well, that speaks into the eternalness of it. Okay? It's it's it's forever.
Speaker 3:It's permanent. Being a child of God is is not temporal. Everything else and anything else that we would bring to the table to say, well, this is the thing that identify that I identify as or that or that defines me. If it's temporary, we've got a problem. Because if it's temporary, it means that time or someone can take that from you.
Speaker 3:And guess what? Losing identity, questioning identity, fearing that we are no longer who we thought we were or that we don't know who we are. Well, that's some of the scariest stuff that we've got. And again, when we're talking about investing in a teenager who is searching for their identity and who is maybe temporarily finding their identity in something that will not last, well, that can be a a pretty unhealthy thing.
Speaker 2:So, John, tell me some identities that people have put on you in your whole life.
Speaker 3:Well, it goes back to, you know, the the sense of identity and and its effects, both positive and negative. I think I started feeling that just where I'm from, you know, just being a kid from South Houston, man. Being the white kid grew I grew up as a widow. So South Houston is primarily Mexican and Mexican American. It's a small community near Pasadena on the southeast side of Houston.
Speaker 3:Its its industry is like meat markets and used car lots, you know, because Pasadena is is a highly refinery community. There are a lot of bars in South Houston as well. And and so, honestly, Zach, I I just kind of grew up a lot of around a lot of unhealth. Some adults who struggle to have margin in their lives and who were trying to just figure it out just in general. And so being from that place, I was already beginning to feel, you know, through my my early years that that because I was from there, I I didn't really matter.
Speaker 3:You know? And so that's a bummer when I get to invest in the lives of teenagers and see that now where it starts becoming, you know, where they're from, what what neighborhood they're from, what school they go to, what their last name is, you know, that all of these divides that society makes to say you're either in or you're out, you know, that begins to to really kind of plague a kid early on. And I would say also, I mean, by the time that I was in 5th grade and identifying with skateboarding, right? Skating gave me it gave me the identity because of what a skateboarder is. Right?
Speaker 3:I mean, you know what a skateboarder is when you see them. They're wearing a certain shirt. They're wearing certain shoes. Right? Even if they're not holding the board, you can kind of tell a skater.
Speaker 3:And back in the day, you know, in the early eighties, it was even more defined because it was so underground. Right? So when you saw it, it was something that you'd look at a kid and say, okay, I see what they are. I see what they're about. And skaters would gravitate toward each other.
Speaker 3:Right? They would they would kind of, you know, I've talked about this being at the at the store and seeing somebody wearing, you know, a a powwow t shirt or a van shirt and being going over to him and saying, hey, do you skate? And then that having that instant community that way as well. Right? So skating is what kind of gave me all of these things early on.
Speaker 3:But interestingly enough, it also gave me the the negativity of the fact that I enjoyed this activity, this sport, this cultural thing that exists. But I would go up to a place that was really good for skateboarding, and there was a sign that said, you're not wanted here. You know, I'm gonna lump you in with with all the guys that are soliciting things or that are just loitering or criminals. And, you know, the potential of being arrested because I enjoyed riding my skateboard as a 12 year old was something that was that was pretty telling and and so important as to why even today we want to minister to that to that subgroup or why I spend so much time of my life investing in them.
Speaker 2:And that's so fascinating. This the way that a child sees themselves. Right? And it's not just a child. I mean, this the same thing happens with an adult.
Speaker 2:When you're new to a place, when you're feeling insecure, you wanna find people who look like you. You want to find the basketball players. Like, if I were to go to a brand new school, the first group I'm going to find, I'm going to go find the basketball players because those are my people. Right? If you, you're going to go find the skateboarders.
Speaker 2:There is this movie, and I really like to watch movies and called American History X. It's a it's a very interesting film to say the least.
Speaker 3:Brutal.
Speaker 2:It's about a skinhead.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And he has a gang, and he commits a murder, and he gets put in jail. And there's this scene where the first day that he's in prison, and he walks into the courtyard, and there's 5 different groups of people. Right? There's the skinheads. There's the Mexican gang.
Speaker 2:There's the African American gang. There there's all of these groups of people, and he looks around, and he walks to his people. Why? Because that's his identity. And I think today, kids, it's it is the same thing based on their talents, based on how they look, based on where they're from.
Speaker 2:Like, oh, that kid's the football player. Oh, that kid's the thug. That kid's the gangster. That kid's the straight a student. That kid's the nerd.
Speaker 2:That kid's the fill in the blank. But these these identities that we put on someone can pigeonhole them and can put a ton of pressure on them, and it is just straight up not godly. And so how do
Speaker 3:we, as mentors, combat against that? So it's cool for the mentor that we get to understand that, again, identity is permanent. Right? It's a foundation for purpose as well. Seeing yourself as it says, as god sees you.
Speaker 3:So it's eternal, and it's also nonnegotiable. And that's kind of the cool thing about it too. That, again, this doesn't well us up with with a sense of pride, but instead, it just kind of establishes us on a much more solid ground than society is ever really gonna wanna give to us. And here's the cool thing too, is that identity is experienced even before it's realized. Okay?
Speaker 3:So when we think about being made in the image of God, there's this really great book. It brings up the notion of of that men and women that were noble savages. Right? That we have this capacity within us, which is incredible to worship God and to connect with him, but also to struggle so much with with poor choices. Right?
Speaker 3:And to and to live lives of sin. So we that we are these noble savages. When you think about scripture, this helps us to understand this idea of being as it says that we carry treasures in jars of clay. Right? So that we are so loved by God, but it's not because of our our inherent value in in and of ourselves apart from God, but instead understanding that we have been made for relationship with him and that relationship because of sin has been broken.
Speaker 3:And so we are in a place through Jesus Christ to be able to come back into a rightful relationship with him. And so our identity is as an image bearer of God again realized even before or experienced even before it's realized and that when we understand when we have someone explain, hey, sin separates us from God, but the love of Christ that sacrifice brings us back into a relationship. And so this is where you realize what not only what your identity is, but but then you also get to realize our purpose, which is what we'll discuss in the future.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of the story of the prodigal son and just how this young man has everything, goes off, and, you know, does a bunch of damage, wastes his money, da da da, and he comes back. And how he's seeing himself, right? He's seeing himself as, I'm a failure. I'm a mess up. Dada.
Speaker 2:Dada. But how did his father accept him as a son? Gave him the ring. Gave him the robe and said, hey. Come have a seat at our table.
Speaker 2:That is, in my opinion, a great example of identity.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And is it an interesting thing that I just feel like human nature is such that we're so quick to think that we're on such unstable footing? I wanna tell you the story just real quick about my dad. My dad really struggled with a lot of things throughout his life and wasn't always able to to maybe speak in a lot of health into my life. But I will tell you something, when I was an about a 19 year old and I was kind of struggling with that crossroads time in my own life of saying, hey, am I gonna am I gonna be okay?
Speaker 3:You know, how am I gonna live my life from here on out? How am I really gonna do this adulting thing? I can remember having a phone conversation with my dad, and the cool thing was he said, hey. I know that this this mistake makes it feel like you are just drowning here and that you're you're feeling pretty hopeless. But he said, I need you to understand something that that the mistake that you made does not result in our relationship being redefined.
Speaker 3:And isn't that funny that often in relationships, we feel like our missteps and our mistakes and our struggles actually put the very relationship itself on the table. Right? It it we run the risk of of losing our identity. In essence, what my dad was saying was, hey, just this this circumstance does not mean that we are not father and son. You know?
Speaker 3:And, man, sadly, there are some families that and some parents that have probably made some mistakes of feeling like that is something that that a kid can lose. And we just always wanna be really careful and understand that when we can speak into a situation to say, hey. I know that this feels like this is the end of the world for you, but I need you to know something. Your identity is not on the table here. Right?
Speaker 3:That is not that is not we're not dealing with that level. We no matter what happens, I will always be, you know, I will always love you, and you will always be important to me.
Speaker 2:And I think that's where some mentors go go wrong. Unconditional love is I'm gonna be here, and I'm gonna love you no matter what, and that's what Jesus Christ gives to us. Conditional love is performance based. As long as you fill in the blank, then I'll love you. Then I'll come around.
Speaker 2:And I've heard of a lot of mentors who have broken off relationships because their kid starts having sex. Their kid starts smoking weed. Their kid goes to prison. Their kid fails school. Their kid's not seeing fruit.
Speaker 2:Their kid doesn't show the amount of respect that this mentor thinks that he deserves whenever they hang out. This mentee doesn't say thank you. This mentee won't return their phone calls. And all of that is performance based. And that's not how the Lord loves us.
Speaker 2:The Lord loves us no matter what. He's never going to abandon us. He's never going to leave us. He's never going to say, you better get your act together if you want me to stick around. And I think especially with the kids that we deal with, some of these kids have experienced trauma.
Speaker 2:Some of these kids have given their trust out to people and been hurt and been abandoned and been left. In a weird way, sometimes they will act out and actually do the very things that you're telling them not to do to test you and to see if you will love them unconditionally. Because in their minds, they're saying, if they leave over this, then I'm gonna stop the relationship before it even gets going. It's a protection protection mechanism. But how do we, as mentors, truly love this child unconditionally?
Speaker 2:Truly show up no matter what? Truly continue to pursue them and continue to engage with them no matter what they do. We have to kill performance based love, and we have to start loving them unconditionally, which in my opinion, you can only love someone unconditionally through the power of the Holy Spirit. You have to be filled up with that because that's that is not natural.
Speaker 3:Absolutely right. Okay. So the final example here of this of this just along the spectrum of of what we're talking about, the difference between God's love and how the world operates. Let's consider that we have got this teenager, and this kid can run like the wind. Alright?
Speaker 3:Incredible athlete. So one day he's at school. What happens? A coach gets wind of this guy who can just run like crazy. Goes to him and says, hey, listen.
Speaker 3:Our football team would really benefit from your skills. So why don't you join? Okay. So what happens is this community identifies that there's value in in an individual and says, what we need to do is bring you into this community. And at this point, we want you to value winning.
Speaker 3:We want you to learn how to do it. We want you to work out. We want you to, you know, you're apart. And then from there, we're going to give you identity. Okay?
Speaker 3:We're gonna give you a number. You can go out and, you know, have a gold chain on your neck with 22 on it, and people will see you. Every Friday night, they will be championing you as you are successful, and everything's going to be great. And by the way, you're going to be popular now. And by the way, you're even gonna get an opportunity to have a a really great education.
Speaker 3:And you know what? Maybe a few years from that, you're gonna be a millionaire, and people will will applaud you. The whole world will know who you are. Isn't that gonna be great? Now hold on.
Speaker 3:But what happens if there's an injury? Right? What if that ACL goes out? What if there's an issue? Sadly, as as soon as that happens, man, listen.
Speaker 3:You're not fast anymore. And so it's not a great example, but it is it is an example of how the world kind of works in this IPC, but in a but in a reverse order. Right? The community comes first. Hey, you gotta you gotta help us out here.
Speaker 3:And that's going to determine your purpose, and then you will find your identity. The issue there is if that performance, as you mentioned, is not there because it can no longer be because of an injury or for whatever other reason, the identity is on the table. The identity is is in question, and that's that's a problem. I think it's a great example. It's Friday Night Lights.
Speaker 3:Go watch that movie. There's a running back, his name is. Do you remember his name? I don't. Booby Miles.
Speaker 3:And Booby Miles is the greatest running back in the history of mankind. I mean, he's going to college with
Speaker 2:a full ride. He's taking Odessa Permian to the state championship. Everyone loves Booby Miles. Then he tears his ACL, and the entire city forgets about him. And there's this scene towards the end where Booby was the main man.
Speaker 2:Everyone loved him. He was the most popular kid in school, and overnight, he disappeared. And there's a scene where he's cleaning out his locker because he can't play football, and he's got this tough face on, and he's putting on his persona like everything's going to be fine. Like, I'm going to come back. Like, this ain't no big deal.
Speaker 2:And he gets in the car with his uncle, and he just weeps. It's extremely powerful scene because his identity was in football, and it got taken away from him. And whenever that happened, his world crumbled.
Speaker 3:Man. That's it. That's the problem with temporal identity. Okay. So now true identity.
Speaker 3:Right? If we are children of God, then our purpose is found in worshiping the Lord, right, and serving others. And then what we get to do is we get to enjoy the community that that the church body brings. We get to have relationships with others based on the fact that we are Christ followers. I mean, that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3:And so even as we live our lives and we we acquire these titles, right, are these these sub identities, you know, what are we? We're we're fathers, we're husbands, we're employees, maybe we're bosses, whatever else. Everything else that we kind of acquire in this life, what's what's good about this is if those things come into question. Okay? The the fact is we we never lose our our being children of God.
Speaker 3:We may lose these other temporal identities and things that we get to carry with us, but that's what's good about this faith that we have and finding our true identity in Christ.
Speaker 2:Well, and conditional love that this world puts on you, right, this temporary identity, it can cause a ridiculous amount of pressure. I have to perform because if I don't, then what's gonna happen? Oh, my gosh. People are gonna leave me, or I'm not gonna be accepted, or I'm not gonna belong. It could create fear.
Speaker 2:It can create anxiety. It can create unrealistic expectations. Right? Like, you've seen the high school kid who has so much pressure to perform. Right?
Speaker 2:My my mom's going to not like me if I don't make the dance team. My dad's going to be disappointed if I don't make straight A's. Right? I'm not going to have any friends if I don't make the football team. That is just like that is the vicious side effect of this temporary identity, of this conditional love.
Speaker 2:Right? However, if you look at what God gives you, unconditional love, if you can walk out in that, then you're walking out in freedom. You're walking about in the ability to take risks. Why? Because you trust God.
Speaker 2:I don't care if I'm on the football team. I don't care if I make a bajillion dollars. I don't care if I'm boss. I don't care if I get fired. I don't care what happens.
Speaker 2:Everything's gonna be fine. Why? Because I'm a child of God and because my father's a good father who's for me, and because he's gonna take care of me, and because he is faithful. Right? And so not whatever identity you're walking out in, it's either going to show itself in good, freedom, or bad, fear.
Speaker 2:And conditional love breeds fear. Unconditional love breeds freedom. Absolutely. And who doesn't want freedom? Right?
Speaker 2:Alright. So how how how do we instill identity into our our mentees? How do we practically do that?
Speaker 3:Again, I think that we've we've probably discussed specifically maybe how to start with that, that it begins with ourselves and that we live as a as an example. Right? Listen, being a teenager is just hard, period. Even if even if they have everything going for them and and even if they, you know, agree with all these wonderful pearls of wisdom that you speak into their hearts, they're just gonna struggle no matter what. It's a it's a station in life that that breeds a lot of insecurity.
Speaker 3:You know why? Because there's a lot of uncertainty. They don't know how life is gonna end up. You know? They don't know if they're gonna get into that college or if they're gonna land that career, if they're gonna be having a family someday.
Speaker 3:And a lot of times as a mentor, we're at a stage in life when we have had some of these things realized. Right? And so maybe we're still living with some doubt and some insecurities as human beings do. However, we realize that we have gone through some of the things that they really really fear, and we can show them, hey. You know what, man?
Speaker 3:Trust me. Trust me. You are going to be okay. You know, sometimes with my mentee or even with my own kids, what I like to tell them is, you know what I wish I could show you right now? I wish I could show you a snapshot of what your life looks like 5 years from now.
Speaker 3:Because some of these fears that you're dealing with right now, you would they would just go away so quickly. You know? But, again, that's how a mentor can begin to speak security into a relationship with a with a mentee is to say, dude, you trust me. You really are gonna be okay. Alright?
Speaker 3:Remember that in scripture, it says do not fear so many times. I think someone said, like, 365 times for for 1, you know, one time, for each day of the year. Man, the work of the mentor is sometimes just being able to say, hey, trust me. You're gonna be okay. Everything is gonna be fine.
Speaker 3:Alright? I wish I could show you that, you know, again, years down the road, you're gonna be worrying about other things instead of this. And this is not this is not all there is, even though it feels like this is all there is. I was in college one day, and I remember hearing on the local news that a little 16 year old girl, her boyfriend broke up with her while at school. During the day, she goes out to her car, and she ends her life.
Speaker 3:And I didn't know who this girl was, and I didn't know her story. But the thing that I was absolutely sure of was that this girl was at such a place in her mindset and in her heart at that day and at that time that what happened in this broken relationship was everything to her. And that I wish so much that someone could have spoken truth into her life to say, hey, listen, I know this feels like this is it. And I know that right now the pain you're feeling feels like it's like it's more substantial than your future even. And that you're hurting so much that you're willing to not even have the perspective of of so many good things that that are gonna that are gonna be for you in the future.
Speaker 3:And that instead, all you wanna do is end it right now. But goodness, doesn't that speak into the heart of the mentor? And and that that's exactly what we're doing. All we're doing is the work of the mentor sometimes is to say, hey. Listen.
Speaker 3:This is not it. Your story is bigger. Tomorrow is a new day. Please don't make a decision now that will hurt what God has for you tomorrow. Right?
Speaker 2:It's the work of the mentor to solidify the mentee's identity. Right? They they they might only have 1 hour a week. They might only have, you know, certain amount of connections to instill this. How do you do it?
Speaker 2:It's exactly what you just said. You remind them. You help them remember, and you do that through your intentional words. Because one doesn't wander into identity. Right?
Speaker 2:The only way to receive this this secure identity is through someone leading you into it. Right? And so, it's a process, it takes work, but we, as mentors, have to know that our words matter, and we have to be intentional about saying the things that our mentees need to hear. Will it be weird? Yes.
Speaker 2:Is it a tad bit awkward? Yeah. Will it make things a little bit uncomfortable? Perhaps. But you're the adult, and you need to say what this kid needs to hear.
Speaker 2:Right? Hey, I love you. Hey, I am proud of you. Hey, all these things that you are worrying about, I'm telling you right now, here's the truth. Right?
Speaker 2:This world's gonna fill them up with lies, and it's our job as mentors to speak the truth, God's truth, and to help them see themselves how God sees them. So as mentors, you put down here, John, that the first thing we have to do is we have show up.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. There is there is absolutely no substitute for being there. Right? I mean, at the end of the day, listen. No matter how you feel about your mentee, you're either there or you're not.
Speaker 3:You know, you think about going to that game. You think about going to that play, or you think about going to that, you know, school function. If you're invited to a thing as a mentor, be there.
Speaker 2:Go. I think so so often, I can get caught up because I don't I might not know what to say. I might not have the right words, but at the end of the day, you showing up is, like, 92% of you being a good mentor.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Presence. Presence matters. From there, you know what it is. You know what we get to do when we're showing up.
Speaker 3:We're getting watched by our mentee. Right? We need to live out our our core beliefs. If we understand and have this this solid understanding of what our identity is, if if we're a seated soul, right, if we're someone who who is comfortable in our own skin, then let's let's show that to our mentee. Let's let's let them see what it means to drive, you know, as one who gets our identity or to deal with somebody, you know, at a restaurant or when you go to purchase something or just how you maneuver yourself throughout the day.
Speaker 3:Our mentees need to see that as well. It's a very practical thing. It's not always about sitting around speaking really profound things, you know, of scriptural truth and philosophy. Sometimes it's just how you treat that person in the drive through. You know?
Speaker 3:That's what the mentee gets to pick up on. That's us living out and showing who we are based on on what we what we say we're about. Listen, actions precede our explanation. Right? 1st Peter 315, one of my favorite verses.
Speaker 3:It says that we should be ready to give an answer for the hope that we profess, but doing so with gentleness and respect, it's really kind of my my philosophy of how I how I wanna share my faith. I wanna do things in such a way that make people say, hey, why why did you react that way? Or, like, why didn't you say this? You know, you I wasn't expecting this to happen. And that gives us an opportunity as people of of faith to be able to say, well, I did that because of my belief in who the Lord is.
Speaker 3:Right? Be ready to give an answer for the hope that you profess. Meaning that explain your actions which are different. But also you're not yelling these through a megaphone at somebody. Okay?
Speaker 3:This isn't a turn or burn kind of thing. This is instead with gentleness and respect. And that's, again, what we should do as mentors as well.
Speaker 2:Because so much more is caught than taught. Yep. A kid's gonna be what they see.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And finally, you know what we get to do? We get to speak in. I always say this when it comes to, like, youth group leadership, and that is, you know, before you can withdraw from your account, you have to invest in it. Right?
Speaker 3:There's gotta be something there. I always want a mentor or a youth worker to be able to understand that as they initiate a relationship, they need to be making investments into this into this heart, right, and into this life. You wouldn't go to up to a kid and say, hey, what's your name? Okay, James. Well, you know what?
Speaker 3:You you know what I see in you? I I see that you're making some mistakes. And if you truly wanna honor God, you need to stop doing that. Dude, that that's making a withdrawal before you've invested anything at all. So remember that it's so much more important to have a kid realize that you actually care about them before you go off and start trying to correct things.
Speaker 3:Right? That goes into the belonging before behaving as well. Not to say, hey, listen. If you wanna be loved by God, you need to get these things right in your life. Okay?
Speaker 3:That's not that's not how we do it. Instead, we invest in a relationship. We speak in only after we have been able to spend some time living out.
Speaker 2:You have to earn the right to be heard, and kids only care what you know after they know that you care. Alright. Well, anything else, John?
Speaker 3:And I think we've Man, we have just We brought some stuff.
Speaker 2:We have worked this topic. There's no doubt about it. Look, audience, we told you this was coming. Yeah. We told you.
Speaker 2:So we hope that you enjoyed it. We hope that you took away some stuff. Just know that these kids, man, they are children of God. This world's gonna say, you are what you have. You are what you do.
Speaker 2:You are what people say about you. They are looking for you to love them conditionally. They're looking for you to love them as long as they perform. But we get to be like Jesus, and we get to love them unconditionally. And we get to say, hey, there's nothing you can do to lose my love because I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:Because you're worth it. Because you have value. Why? Because God said so. And we get to remind them of that day after day after day after day.
Speaker 2:We get to sound like a broken record because at the end, really only thing that matters. And so, yeah, that's great. Anything else, John? No, sir. You good?
Speaker 2:Alright. Sweet. I do wanna say one last thing. I know last week we kinda talked about Steven and I just want Steven, if you're listening to this, you're still my number one. Okay?
Speaker 2:So John's great. I like John. But, John, I'm just telling you, Steven's the man.
Speaker 3:Do you mean, like, how the first will be last? Is that what you mean in that?
Speaker 2:I no. I don't mean that. No. So, Murdoch, we hope that you are listening, and I can't wait to do a podcast with you again. All 3 of us should do a podcast.
Speaker 2:It would be like a triple date.
Speaker 3:Dude, I would love that. Man, that would be great. I I will also just wanna say formally