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The podcast on man things
S1 E1: Paris to Dakar
Cross country road trip or cross continental trip? Really?
Stephen: I mean, really, at the end of the day, what's the difference? Cross country, road trip, cross continental. Um, fight for your life. I mean, I'd say you've done it. Really?
Catherine: Hi, everyone. I'm Catherine, and this is men's, the podcast on man things.
Stephen: Uh, wait a minute. You're not a man.
Catherine: I know, but who better to learn about man stuff than a woman? And today I'm interested in learning more about the Paris to Dakar rally race. And guess what? You're gonna help me. Person on with me right now is my brother Stephen, and he's an expert on the very interesting topic of racing. Hi, Steven.
Stephen: Hello, uh, everybody. I wish you could see my setup here. I've got, like, some scratchy notes that I wrote down here. I've got a tablet computer open here, too. No kidding. The Wikipedia page. And then I have your email open in front of me on the computer with your questions so I can, like, jog my memory. What stuff did I look up this past week?
Catherine: Perfect. Well, I have a whole script, and I don't know how long it's going to take. It's not 4 hours, hopefully, but same. And it's like, with this topic, it seems like there should be so much information, but I found, like, three solid web pages, and that's it.
Stephen: I had that problem, too. Um, like, the official webpage was decent, then. Wikipedia has been fine, but outside of that, yeah, it was harder than I thought to find some of this info. It's secret sauce.
Catherine: Um, Stephen, how long have you been interested in racing?
Stephen: I think I can say probably my entire life. In some way or another, I've been watching racing. It probably started when I was three or four watching NASCAr. Um, and then that sort of ballooned out into learning about other racing categories, other types of cars, other types of events. Uh, and it really has grown from there. So I watch pretty much anything I can find.
Catherine: These days, Steven is the best expert on racing, just like what he said. Ever since we were kids, he was always into it. Um, so you're in for a treat, everyone. Uh, is it okay if I call you Stephen, since that's not your real name?
Stephen: That is perfectly, perfectly fine.
Catherine: Yes. Um, sorry, listeners, you do not get to learn what Steven's real name is. And we were going to have a beer together, but I guess he overdid it on the weekend. So now his beer consists of two hydrogens and an oxygen. What is this?
Stephen: Yes, I am mainlining water right now because, um, not only did d and d night last night, get a little out of hand, but also, I just a little bit sick. So it's hydration for me tonight.
Catherine: Hydration. Well, thanks for taking the time amidst all of that, of course.
What is the difference between a rally race and a NASCAR race
So we're gonna talk about the infamous Paris to Dakar rally race, um, which is a 10,000 kilometer rally race that used to run from Paris, France, to Dakar, Senegal. Uh, so, basically Europe to the heart of Africa. It, uh, lasted for three weeks, crossed six countries, two continents, and was a true test of mental grit, physical grit, and mechanical grit. A lot of grit. The race started in 1979, and the route we're talking about today was used until 2001. So this is a point to point race from Europe to Africa. That's huge. But, like, right out of the gate, Steven, this is a rally race. What is the difference between a rally race and a NASCAR race? And if you're feeling up to it, how does Formula one fall into this?
Stephen: I'm sad when you mentioned all of the grit, you didn't talk about the sand, because, boy, oh, boy, is there a lot of sand. But to your question, I think probably the way to answer this best is to save rally for the end and to first compare and contrast something like, as you said, NASCAR versus something like Formula one. Because at the end of the day, the goal is the same. You put cars on track, you race a prescribed distance, and whoever does it the fastest is the winner. But the way, especially those two sports, as the examples I gave go about doing that, is quite different. So, to begin with, say something like NASCAR, these are purpose built racing machines. But the sort of DNA of that sport is that the cars are meant to resemble something you could see in a showroom. You're meant to watch the sport and say, hey, I recognize that. That's a chevrolet. I see those on the street. Hey, that's a Ford Mustang. I see those on the street. There's some manufacturer DNA behind it, and they're meant zimbal, given the name, uh, as the name implies, stock cars.
Catherine: I saw that on tv, and I can have one.
Stephen: Yeah. You know, sort of. That mindset is what gave
00:05:00
Stephen: rise to a phrase that has come from, uh, stock car racing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. The manufacturers want their identities to be plastered all over the sport, and they want that recognition because in their mind, it could boost sales. Right. So there's your NASCAR. Just a very quick little sort of, uh, high level view of it. F one. Completely different. These are not something you're going to see on the road. These are not going to resemble anything you see driving around the cockpits are open, the wheels are open. There aren't fenders on these cars. They are built to a, uh, prescribed set of rules. But unlike something where in Asgar, where the cars are all very similar in f one, it's down to the teams to interpret that set of rules and build the best possible car they can according to those rules. And you may see drastic differences in how those cars perform, even though they are all, and I'll give you inverted commas here, the same. They're not the same at all. Uh, large differences in how those cars perform. But the similarities between those two are all the cars are on tracks at the same time. They're all competing wheel to wheel with each other and trying to cross the finish line first, which is where I'll contrast that with something like rally, where really, it's a time trial. Everyone is given a point to point route to follow. And often there are several of these that are done sort of over the course of several days, where you start a day and go to b as fast as you can, but you're racing the terrain, you're racing the track. You're not directly out there banging fenders with somebody trying to overtake people, trying to defend your position. You're just going from a to b as fast as you can.
Catherine: So that's fascinating. Can rally cars be. I'm using rally car. Are there sedans? Is it mainly a sedan? What kind of vehicles are in this rally? Since you're racing the terrain, that'll largely.
Stephen: Come down to what category of rally you're watching. We're going to talk about the Dakar rally here, which I guess would be a decent opportunity for me to mention that all sorts of different cars. And again, I'll say cars, all sorts of different vehicles compete in that, from bikes on two wheels to quads on four wheels. Cars, trucks, big, huge, purpose built trucks, all sorts of things. And each of them, because those vehicles are also different, do compete within their own category, within the greater race. And in an event like that, there is an overall winner awarded, but also within each class, uh, winners are awarded as well.
Catherine: I'm reminded when you're describing this, of this cartoon back when we were kids, and I can't remember the name of it, but I think Dick dastardly was in it.
Stephen: But there were also wacky racers, maybe.
Catherine: Is wacky racers based on the Paris to Dakar rally?
Stephen: I mean, I'm not gonna say it's not based on it. I've never seen them in the same room together.
Catherine: My gosh. Okay. That clears up a lot. So, if I can summarize, NASCAR is lots of the same cardinal on a track racing each other. Formula one are on a track, but there's a lot more variation in the cars that are going to be on it. And then rally is on a route, we'll say. And, uh, it is really whoever gets from a to b the fastest.
Stephen: Broadly speaking, yes. Um, obviously we could go into far more detail than that, but as a global overview. Yeah. That's a pretty decent way to separate them.
Catherine: Okay, thank you. I think I might be in global overview level for most of this. So, thank you.
Without French influence, motor racing wouldn't be what it is today
So, into the history of this, I'm like, where do I look into the history? So, obviously, they started with the first car. Um, the first gas powered motor car was invented by Carl Benz, a name that you might have heard before Benzema, um, in 1886. So naturally, the first race between two motor cars was in 1887, because I guess as soon as we.
Stephen: When the very second car was ever sold. Yeah. Was when the first race happened.
Catherine: Exactly. Exactly. That's what happened. So it was invented in 1886. In 1894, a french magazine organized what's basically the world's first motoring competition. And this was called the Paris Tour Rouen. It was a 79 miles course. And, uh, you know, I didn't realize that France had such an impact on motor racing.
Stephen: I mean, honestly, I would say France's history in motorsports is, uh, as strong as any other, really, you, uh, know, but between not only having manufacturers that compete at a very high level, but also drivers who have been pioneers in a lot of their sport, I mean, without the French, I racing wouldn't be what we know it today.
00:10:00
Stephen: Maybe people be surprised to know that, but absolutely, it's the truth.
Catherine: I was surprised because it kind of sounds like France is to motor sports what Greece is for the Olympics. And I don't know if that's a reach. I can name like two french carmakers off the top of my head right now. Uh, and it's Citrone and Peugeot. So I'm just all around shocked at their involvement here. Um, they did have the first race.
Stephen: They did have the first race. Since we are speaking today about Paris to Dakar. A frenchman had the idea for this race in the first place, uh, after getting lost in the desert while competing in a different race. Believe it or not, I wish that.
Catherine: I had that mindset, because when I get lost, I want no one to know about it. I don't view it as blazing new trails. He's like, you know what? More people should drive this route, honestly.
Paris to Dakar is an endurance race traveling from Europe to Africa
So, growing up in, uh, southern Virginia, both of us grew up in southern Virginia. Really, my only exposure to racing was NASCAR, and I realized I had a true bias when it came to tracks, because, for me, racing is on a speedway. It's on a circle, it's on an oval. And I'm, like, learning about Paris to Dakar. And it occurs to me that, okay, the car was invented seven years ago. They don't have speedways. They don't have oval tracks. They have to do things point to point. Those are the only roads. Right?
Stephen: This is why motorsport's so great, because people said, hey, we have these things that can. That can race against each other. We don't even need to make somewhere for them to race. We're just going to go ahead and use what we've got. We don't need roads where we're going, Kathryn. We don't need roads.
Catherine: I love this call. We need to race these two machines against each other no matter what. So we're gonna do it. That said, we're going point to point. Driving around France, uh, 80 miles in a day trip, is not doing it for people anymore. So, fast forward, we have Paris to Dakar, and so this is going from Europe to Africa. There's some amazing symbolism between just driving between two countries and the different developments of them. But this race is not unique. There's other races too long. Endurance race is not unusual at this point.
What is the draw of the Dakar Rally for you as a fan
But, like, what is the draw? What is calling people to do this?
Stephen: So I'll answer the question, really, in the context of the Dakar rally, I think the draw depends a lot on what your interaction with the sport is. For me, as a fan, I love a few things about it. Number one, I alluded to earlier, different types of vehicles competing at the same time in the same event. You have bikes, you have quads, you have cars, you have trucks. And it's fun to see how those different types of machinery tackle what is really the same challenge. Right? Tackling the same terrain, tackling the same route. But what a bike can do versus what a car can do versus what a truck can do are quite different. And it's, to me, quite interesting to see that contrast within, again, the same event. From the standpoint of the drivers, I think there's something very admirable about taking on a challenge where it's almost expected that 50% of people won't finish, and m doing what could be compared to running 13 Indianapolis 500s once per day. For two weeks. In terms of scale of what they're doing here, the challenge, the variety, the terrain, all of it is the draw for me, and I assume for them as well.
Catherine: It's so interesting to me hearing you talk about it like that, because, you know, there's such a difference between, like, uh, a road trip, for example, and then pushing your machine to the absolute max. I moved from Virginia to Colorado, and that m that drive is 1700 miles. And I did feel like I was going to die, so I suppose I had that in common, but it was not fun. There's nothing glamorous.
Stephen: I mean, really, at the end of the day, what's the difference? Cross country, road trip, cross continental fight, um, for your life. I mean, I'd say you've done it. Really.
Catherine: Do you think the creator of this race just really had to move and, uh.
Stephen: Yeah. Yes, actually, I'm pretty sure that is. I'm pretty sure that's absolutely it. Uh, when Thierry Sabin got lost in the desert, he realized he forgot all of his stuff, and he was looking for a way to save face to go back and get it. And he says, I know, we'll do a race.
Catherine: Everyone has to bring a piece of my couch and a tv m and.
Stephen: Whoever, whoever gets to Dakar first with it, you can spend the night.
The first race was broken up into eight stages, and then it later evolved into more
Catherine: Let's talk logistics, how they move.
Stephen: Absolutely.
Catherine: So the race is 6200 miles, 10,000 km over two continents. The
00:15:00
Catherine: first race was broken up into eight stages, um, and then it later evolved into more, but it was pretty much 500 to 750 miles per day. And the stages that it were broken into, they cover a specific section of the course, and then the drivers needed to be at the finish point of that stage by the end of the day in order to move on. Is that kind of how it worked?
Stephen: More or less, yes. So, at the beginning of the day and the end of the day, all of the drivers, machinery, pit crews, etcetera, are together in an area called the bivouac. And on the next morning of competition, they will leave the bivouac and head to the start of what's called the special stage. And for the purposes of competition, and the actual timing and scoring their time inside the special stage, whatever the route is, however long it is, that's what's being recorded. But there is actually, oftentimes a little bit of, uh, transit time between the bivouac and the start of the special stage, and then the end of the special stage and the bivouac. There's a little bit of terrain that oftentimes has to be covered between those as well, but those are not recorded for the purposes of timing and scoring. That's mostly just a logistics, getting people where they need to be kind of situation.
The Dakar rally no longer starts and ends in Paris
Catherine: Okay. So, because, like, some of this is taking place in Paris. So, like, we have people in cafes with their baguettes, you know, and you're driving past them, so don't want to.
Stephen: Be ripping down the road, um, under the arc de triomphe at full tilt. No. Though what I will point out, and, um, we haven't brought up yet, is, did you know that the Dakar rally no longer starts and ends in Paris.
Catherine: And Dakar, I have learned this, and I'm quite sad about it. It's like I learned about something that doesn't exist anymore. And I'm kind of bummed because I was rather.
Stephen: I mean, really, why do they even call it that anymore?
Catherine: I know, right? Yes. I would rather watch this than the Olympics or the Tour de France, to be honest. So I'm with you. Um, I'm quite sad. Maybe we can revive it.
Stephen: Maybe so I'll write a letter.
Catherine: Thank you. Thank you. Steven. What's your real name at the end of it? Uh, even.
Stephen: Okay. But I can't put my real name, because if they listen to this and they know how much I obviously know about this event, and then I put my real name at the end, they won't know that it's coming from someone with authority.
Catherine: So it's you. Oh. They have logistical transit, where they go through the cities and then specific time stages. Um, and then I think it's important to just let everybody know. If you're wondering. They take a ferry from France to Africa. They do not drive.
Stephen: Um, the cars don't float.
Catherine: If you miss the ferry, then you're done. Sorry, but you're still on, Francis.
Stephen: Sorry. I m am going to jump back in and interrupt briefly.
Amateur and factory teams all compete at the same time in Dakar
There are also during the second week, what are called marathon stages, which are basically, think of them as consecutive days put together and considered as one where outside help is limited. So I talked a little bit earlier about, uh, amateurs and factory teams all competing at the same time. One of the advantages that factory teams have is they can pour a lot of resources into this and have support vehicles coming along to help out if your car breaks down. Uh, the idea with the marathon stages is to minimize that and sort of level the playing field between the amateurs and the factory efforts. So, for those parts of the event, outside help is, uh, prohibited.
Catherine: So it's just down to the people who are in the car. The people or person who is in the car. They're responsible for maintenance. Well, I don't know what else. Food.
Stephen: They're responsible for everything, including their navigation. But, yeah, maintenance is a big one. If something breaks, you have to fix it. Uh, between the special stages, when they're in the bivouac, I mean, these people are working on their machines all the time to fix small, little mechanical things, make sure everything's going to be running right for the next day. And one thing that is quite nice is there is a lot of camaraderie between competitors. Even though they are all trying to beat each other. There's a real spirit of, um, we're in this together. Even though we're competing. We are all trying to support each other in this monumental task of finishing.
Catherine: And probably well served, because there's kind of a lot to learn about car engines. You mentioned these marathon stages as, uh, being kind of equalizers versus the factory team. And this competition, um, was created with the goal to be something that amateur racers could have an opportunity to win, in addition to factory
00:20:00
Catherine: teams. And only a quarter of the participants are allowed to be factory teams. So that means everyone else is kind of an individual. And so that means that these small teams, they don't have Red Bull, you know, and they don't have all of the engineers on, um, call. It's just, you know, you and me. And maybe the guy Tony from down the street. Like, that is unreal dedication to, uh, take out into the desert.
Stephen: And I will say Tony really does know stuff, so he's a good guy to have around.
Catherine: I pick him.
Stephen: But to your point, yes, functionally speaking, anybody can enter this as long as you meet some sort of, um, basic requirements, not only for yourself, but I. The machine that you're entering, um, but for the cars, trucks, as long as your machine meets the requirements, as long as you're old enough, as long as you can pay to get in, and as long as you have an international FIA or fim license, you can do this. And you better be able to fix your engine because it's going to break at some point, probably.
Catherine: Um, I have a quote that I want to share with you. Uh, it said, quote, the desert was eating engines and transmissions for breakfast and bones for lunch. I ate pieces of shit like you for breakfast, I think was what the desert was saying.
Stephen: Happy Gilmore wasn't there with the snarky rebuke, but you're absolutely right. Running through the desert, running through, standing water going over rocky terrains. I mean, these cars take a beating. Sand gets everywhere, gets into air filters that has to be cleaned out. Worse comes to worse, you don't want sand getting into the lubricated parts of your engines. You don't want it getting into the lubricated parts of the transmission, because, again, tears away at the internals.
Catherine: Literal abrasion, like sandpaper is sandpaper for reason.
Stephen: The time between the stages in the bivouac, just making sure that you can even complete the next day and that your car or bike is up to it the next day, really can't be taken for granted. If you don't finish a stage within the slotted running time, if you fail to finish one, you are disqualified from competing for the win of the race. You're still allowed to finish. Um, if you're able to, you have to have to finish every single step.
Catherine: Of the way mechanically. The car has to make it from a to b. That is the bare minimum. And then on, um, top of that, you're the driver, and the crew, they're having to spend their resting time fixing the car. They're being in a car for 550 to 750 miles per day. Like, it's taxing on every aspect. And, you know, I was even looking at the, uh, average temperature in France versus m Senegal, and the average temperature in Paris in January is 43 degrees fahrenheit. And then it gets up to 79 degrees, uh, as you get deeper into Africa, so even, it's like the stakes are raising. It's getting kicked up a notch in every aspect of it, from your resilience, your drive, your motivation, and then keeping that thing running, absolutely.
Stephen: Finishing at all is an accomplishment, let alone winning, which I think pretty much immediately vaults you into legend status.
The Sahara desert is the largest desert in the world
Catherine: As much as this course seems fantastical, they arrive in northern Africa and then begin the several segments down to the finish line in Dakar. And a lot of that is through the Sahara desert. And, you know, again, growing up in small town Virginia, um, I know that the Sahara desert is massive and dangerous, but I never realized how big the Sahara desert was when I looked at it. It's like if the sahara, if Africa is an ice cream cone with a lovely scoop sitting on top, the Sahara desert's the ice cream park. It's fricking huge.
Stephen: An analogy I've never heard, but I suppose not entirely an incorrect one.
Catherine: The best one I could come up with. Thank you. So, this is the largest desert in the world. Um, and people are the largest, actually.
Stephen: Believe it or not, Antarctica is the largest desert in the world.
Catherine: Is there an Aristotle Antarctica?
Stephen: There is, yes. That's, uh, the next episode in that one, I will say the cars do have to be able to float for that one. It's a lot harder.
Catherine: Okay. I can't wait to learn more. Um, you know, and it's just I have only my experience to apply to this. And thank you for being patient with me.
BMW prototype drives across the Sahara desert
But it's like, so the Sahara desert. Huge, right? Uh, second largest desert in
00:25:00
the world. In fact, little known fact.
Stephen: Um, at least I think it's the second. I know. I just know it's not the first. But anyway. Go on.
Catherine: All I know is it's not the first. Um, I went to the beach last year. My friends, uh, Lynn and Frank came to visit me, and they borrowed, like, father in law's really cool mustang. And, uh, that thing sunk into the sand immediately. Cars and sand does not mix.
Stephen: Did they try to drive it on the beach?
Catherine: They were just trying to park outside dad's beach house. So how can we go from that to a BMW literally driving across the Sahara?
Stephen: Um, that's the magic of engineering babies.
You mentioned the mustang that they got stuck in the sand
Um, you mentioned the mustang that they got stuck in the sand. Differences between that and say something that's going to compete in the Dakar. Um, these machines have big, beefed up suspensions. They're raised up higher off the ground for ground clearance. They have extra special tire to be able to move across that fine, grainy sand that moves and shifts. The engines are going to be not only souped up for power, but also for resilience and endurance. You're going to have suspensions that have a lot of travel that are able to withstand the bumps and the bangs and, um, any number of things that are going to just allow the vehicles to tackle that terrain better. We're having a little bit of connection trouble again.
Catherine: You can hear me now, hopefully new. Go out and come back.
Stephen: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. There's a. I don't know if you can still hear me, but I'm going to say it anyway because it's funny. There's a, um, rate the app thing that I keep getting given every time I leave and come back in. One of the things that you can rate the app on is how good the conversation was, which doesn't really seem like an app problem. It's like I. I indicated that the audio was a problem on the last one, and so I clicked the little thumbs down thing, and it's like, why are you giving a thumbs down? And one of them is boring conversation. I just don't know that's really relevant to the software.
Catherine: Software's like, are you sure you're not just moody?
Stephen: Yeah. Ah, man. Software was great, but that Catherine was terrible.
Catherine: I feel personally attacked.
The Paris to Dakar is run over the last week of December
Okay, so a quick anecdote, and then we're getting back into the. The meat of it. I thought it was really interesting that the Paris to Dakar is run over the last week of December into the first two weeks of January. So, truly, Jo everyman can run this race. You don't have to take time off work. Everyone has that time off between Christmas and the first couple weeks of the.
Stephen: Year so that everyone can take their holiday plans and instead torture themselves instead of doing something fun.
Catherine: Yes, exactly. Are you tired of hanging out with your family for three weeks? Um, do you want to kill yourself for you? You can instead drive your car. Drive your family citrone, uh, from Paris to da.
Stephen: Just be sure to bring Tony.
Catherine: Tony, you don't have to hang out with your fam. He's very smart race organizers. What I want to end on, you were just saying, this is not Lynn and Frank driving a mustang to the, uh, outer banks of North Carolina. This is the Sahara. We need a car that can really respond to this environment. This is where the factory aspect really lands its stride. Right. This is where the factory teams can show off how amazing their engineering is.
Stephen: Yeah, um, you're absolutely right. When they can throw the full force of their R and D behind these efforts, it really does show. Part of the motivation for factories doing things like this is they want to show the world what they can do. They want to use it as a showcase of new technologies, new, uh, performance breakthroughs. When they enter, they do take it very seriously. They want to win. They want to be on the world stage, and they want people to know what they can do.
Catherine: If a factory like BMW wins the Paris TEDx car, that is a nod to quality and reliability. And like our car, the BMW engineering can create a vehicle that can do this insane drive, and it's like a completely different kind of notoriety.
Stephen: You know, you are absolutely right. They're showing off, hey, look at what we can do. So a good example of this actually just happened. With the last, uh, iteration of the Dakar in 2024, Audi came forward with an effort to use vehicles from their e tron line, from their electric and hybrid research that they've been doing for a long time, they brought e tron cars and won with them. So, basically, that throws down the
00:30:00
Stephen: gauntlet and says, hey, we have been really focusing hard on these technologies. We see electricity as part of the way forward for the automobile. Look what we did. We took cars with electric components. Uh, racing in the hardest event in the world, and we won.
Catherine: It really gets the mindset back to engineering. It's about getting a vehicle to the finish line on this world stage.
Are there any really big factory rivalries that we should know about at MotoGP
Are there any really big factory rivalries that we should know about?
Stephen: This is something that I think changes as the race has gone throughout its history. And the reason for that is manufacturers will come and go. They'll have periods where they're interested in competing, where they're not competing. So we haven't talked a ton about the bikes. KTM is the most successful entrant into bikes, uh, and they've won more than anybody else in that category. And there have been times when Yamaha has been really interested in competing and has challenged KTM, and they've had rivalries. Same thing with, ah, Honda coming in, or BMW coming in with bikes and challenging them. Um, they don't run all the time, because, as I said, manufacturers come and go. Um, but when more than one manufacturer thinks they're in with a shot of winning and they're in the sport for a long time, you do really see those rivalries grow.
Catherine: It kind of sounds like the biggest rivalry is, uh, who's ever in first versus everyone else. Just like with all sports, if somebody held the victory for several years, then rivalries will spawn, and that people pushing to be better, you put it a.
Stephen: Lot better than I did.
Steven Sahara: Which vehicle would give you more of a chance to win
Catherine: I want to wrap up with a couple facts about the first race, some stats. The first race, 182 vehicles entered, 74 finished. First race was eight stages. 182 vehicles entered and 74 finished. So, like you said, less than half even finished the race. Uh, the first race had 80 cars, 90 motorcycles, and twelve trucks. And a motorcycle ultimately brought home the gold and finished first. Uh, there were seven women in the first running, and they were all on motorcycles. In this first running, there's 80 cars, 90 motorcycles, and twelve trucks. What. Which vehicle is superior here? What is going to give you more of a chance for winning this race.
Stephen: In the, uh, original or in today's sort of, uh, makeup?
Catherine: I say original. Let's go, og boy.
Stephen: Man, back then. Back then, I think probably motorcycles would have been the way to go, because I think the capacity for modifying the vehicles to tackle this terrain just technologically wasn't what we have now. So, back then, I would say bikes. Um, but today, as of 2024, the fastest time overall came from the car division. So seems to ebb and flow a bit, depending on what the technology has done.
Catherine: I cannot get into the mindset of the racers. I'm like, which one has Internet motorcycle? All of the sand, it's in your mouth now. And your carburetor, whatever that is.
Stephen: I would not pick a bike, I'll tell you that much. Bikes can go where trucks can't. In a lot of cases, the bikes are fast. So just to frame this a little bit, the fastest car finished in a total of 48 hours, 15 minutes and, uh, some seconds. In the last race, the fastest bike was 51 hours and 30 minutes. So, like, over two weeks. That's not that much. Right. So they are competitive. But the reason I wouldn't do a bike is because you don't get a co driver. And in addition to driving, you have to navigate yourself. Whereas if you're in a, let's just say a side by side capable category, a car, a truck, so on, um, you get a co driver who can help you with the navigation, which, I mean, look, if I'm doing this, you better believe I'm going to want some help in there with me. So with that, I'd pick. I'd pick a truck. Yeah, I'd bring Tony. I'd pick a truck. Because if you haven't seen the trucks, they're huge and amazing and awesome, and I love them.
Catherine: That's, uh, sick. And when you're saying truck, like, are you talking about a f 350? What are you saying here? What does truck mean to you?
Stephen: God, I'm talking about a beast of a machine. Like, these are. How do we even describe what does a rally raid truck really look like? Imagine, like a shipping container on wheels.
Catherine: It definitely has a red.
Stephen: It does have a Red Bull logo. Yeah, I mean, I. So, uh, maybe this could be an exercise for the listeners. Imagine a shipping container. Put an exhaust pipe on it and a big, beefy suspension and some wheels, and then picture that in your head. And then go, Google rally raid truck. And it looks like it would be about as fun to drive as you can imagine.
00:35:00
Stephen: Yeah, right.
Catherine: Nothing. Nothing. No boulder is gonna get in your way with this thing. And you know what? I was imagining an rv. And also, I wasn't necessarily wrong because it is. It has rv nuances.
Stephen: It's about the size of one.
Catherine: Also the ultimate zombie puck, by the way. The first three hits have a red Bull logo.
Stephen: So what you're saying is red bulks needs to sponsor. Yeah, I want one of those is what I want.
Catherine: You would smash the person on the motorcycle, would be on your windscreen, uh, in this vehicle. Um, I'm going to guess there's fuel at these bivouac centers.
Stephen: I assume so. I don't guess I ever really thought of that. But there have to be a way of getting these things consistently refueled.
Catherine: Right, listeners? Uh, Steven and I are marathon runners to some extent. And, you know, all I can relate to this is marathon racing. And I just assume that every 1 mile, they have a, uh, water station and bananas and fuel.
Stephen: And I'm thinking that's actually exactly right. Stage, um, you get to, like, stage ten, you're near the end and someone starts handing out beer, and you're just like, yeah, sure, why not? It's carbs.
Catherine: Yeah, exactly. There's no police in the Sahara desert. It's fine. I don't care. Okay, so we have no idea how they get fuel. That's fair. Honestly.
Stephen: You know what they're finding m. You.
Catherine: Know, they look, they. It's over Christmas vacation. They're inviting people to come do this very deadly thing. So Clark Griswold is rolling up with his, you know, volkswagen, and he's going to drive in the desert. And I just feel like they should provide them some kind of support.
Stephen: Maybe, maybe if you're, if you're lucky.
The Paris to Dakar route has changed several times over its history
Catherine: If you're lucky, you can have one Red Bull. That's what you get. Um, so, Stephen, you're gonna drive in the murder truck for, uh, the Paris to Dakar. I love it. Um, I think I'm going to go with my Honda element that I drove across the country in, because I know it can get at least a quarter of the way there. So 2001 was the last running of the Paris to Dakar route that we're discussing right now. Uh, but that doesn't mean that the race is completely done. There are still races run like this to this day, just not in the same capacity that Paris to Dakar was.
Stephen: The race route was altered a few times, um, throughout the race's history. The big one, probably that caused the biggest shift was an increase in terrorist activity. In fact, the 2008 edition of this race was canceled altogether because of that. From 2009 until 2020, uh, as a result of that political unrest and some fears of potential danger surrounding the event, it was actually held in South America, spanning a few countries in that continent, and sort of changing around every year. And then beginning in 2020 and running until today, uh, this event actually is held in Saudi Arabia. Um, and the route again each year changes a little bit. So it is the Dakar rally, but it also, really, I suppose, isn't the.
Catherine: Current running the Dakar rally in Saudi Arabia seems to still encapsulate this really treacherous, uh, uh, root and still very trying endurance, which is the, uh, the spirit of the race, right?
Stephen: Yes. The location has changed. Yes, the route has changed, but the spirit, as you said, really has remained the same. We're. We're trying to survive this ordeal. We're helping each other along the way. We're showing what our manufacturers can do. We're showing our. Our fighting spirit. The race is the same, even if the scenery has changed in a way.
Catherine: That the route changing gives people a new challenge, you know? But Everest only has three routes. Always. That's it. But, uh, you know, when you have something like this, changing the scenery really gives people a new challenge, and it gives the factory teams a new challenge. And we keep finding new ways, new terrains to test our machines on, and it's super cool.
Did Garfield mail nurmal to the Sahara desert
Um, did Garfield mail nurmal to the Sahara desert? I as I thought he did, man.
Stephen: Um, I don't know if I watched enough Garfield to know that or read enough of the comics to know that. Did he do that? Let's see. I'm going to google this.
Catherine: I thought he mailed nurmal to this to the Sahara desert because Nirmal was so annoying. And it would make sense because it sounds like one of the most treacherous places on the planet.
Stephen: But no, he's hedged. Um, tried to send him to Abu Dhabi.
Catherine: Abu Dhabi? Yes, it's the capital of the United Arab Emirates. It doesn't sound bad at all.
Stephen: I mean, nice, in fact. Where does John Arbuckle live? Do we know?
Catherine: What if it's a suburb of the UAE?
Stephen: He's trying to. He's just trying to
00:40:00
Stephen: mail nurmal downtown because, look, all I'm saying is, if. If John Arbuckle, uh, and Garfield and Odie live in, like, I don't know, west nowhere, Iowa or something, and there's nothing to do except eat lasagna and complain about Mondays. Maybe going to Abu Dhabi is not that bad in comparison. Right? Hey, bustling metropolis, lots to do. Maybe Garfield was trying to do normal a favor.
Catherine: Now that you've said lasagna, like, it has to be New Jersey, right? It's Indiana. According to Wikipedia, it's Indiana. I'm just thinking, like, if there's a horrible place to mail someone, then I just don't know that the capital of one of the richest countries on the planet is the punishment.
Stephen: I gotta agree. Gotta agree. Honestly, we will lose all of our listeners in Indiana, if we tell them that Abu Dhabi is better than Indiana.
Catherine: Sorry. Muncie, Indiana. That's great.
Stephen King talks about the Paris to Dakar rally
Okay. Stephen, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about the Paris to Dakar rally. It is so cool. And I finally understand the drive to find a machine that can make this incredible journey, find people that can make the journey, and the fact that it even existed is still just blowing my mind. So thank you for your time.
Stephen: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I hope that, uh, as listeners hear this, they are inspired to go out and try to consume some motorsports for themselves. I know it's not for everybody body, but, uh, as a lifelong lover of this kind of stuff, I encourage everyone to give it a try because you never know what you might like. And, uh, I certainly like this, so I'm happy to come on and talk about it.
Catherine: Yeah. If you've been thinking about getting into motorsports, we have a great race for you to just try just to dip your toe called the Dakar rally. You won't have to take time off work. You'll do fine. You won't die. You definitely won't die. Okay. Thanks, brother.
Stephen: Of course.
Catherine: Thank you. Thank you. I'm wearing my Stephen with a ph shirt, by the way.
Stephen: Excellent. I'm, um, wearing my tacos shirt.
Catherine: Okay, bye. I love you.
Stephen: Okay, bye.
Catherine: Uh, if you like what you are hearing and you want to stay connected, there are a few ways you can do that. We are on Instagram menstuffpodcast. If you'd like to support the show, consider becoming a patreon on patreon.com menstuffpodcasts. And if you have feedback, questions, or topic suggestions, or you just want to say hi, you can email us@mensstuffpodcastmail.com dot. Of course, the quickest way to stay in touch with us is to subscribe to us on your platform of choice. And of course, I'd love for you to leave a five star review and tell your friends thanks. Men's stuff is a podcast designed for everyone. Our HM choice of title is not meant to exclude or discriminate against any gender or identity. Instead, it's a playful nod to the diversity of topics we explore and the perspectives we invite. The creator of men's stuff, Catherine, is a woman who embraces the irony of leading a podcast with such a title. Her aim is to foster open and inclusive conversations that resonate with everyone, regardless of gender. So whether you identify as male, female, non binary, or anywhere in between, you are welcome and your insight matters. Thanks for listening.
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