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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
You want to talk about the good days of football, right?
The romance, the tradition, the beautiful Italian accent,
Italian landscape, Italian soccer.
Well,, turn that dial because this is not the episode for you.
This episode is not about nostalgia.
It's about change
It is about the game moving faster than all of our
old answers and questions..
It's about duels, decisions, mistakes, pressure,
and whatever our kids need to be, to actually be prepared
for what's coming next.
Because one of the traps in youth soccer is that parents start
looking for fixed answers
What is the right club?
What is the right style?
What is the right pathway?
What does good soccer even look like?
In Filippo, Giovanoli pushes
against all of that.
He's not saying there is one clean answer.
He's saying the game keeps changing.
And if we stand still
our players fall behind.
Yeah, Filippo grew up inside these Italian football system,
who worked deeply in American yououth system, help shape med oval,
and then moved into a professional game in both Ireland and Switzerland.
But what makes this conversation interesting is not just where he has been.
It's just how much he's still asking and how many questions he still has.
So today we are talking about why tactics alone are not enough
why young players need more 1v1 moments,
why winning duels is not just about size, why the
player has to sit at the center of the model, why the best
footballer may simply be a learner with grit.
Yeah, this is a chasing the game
Italian style, Bonorno, my friend.
Liron: Mr. Filippo, welcome
to Chasing the Game.
I'm so excited to have you here.
I have a shared past with you and
your club and I owe a lot to my son's
development to, the roots of your staff
and what you guys bring to this area.
But before we start talking about Italy,
Ireland, United States, maybe you can
give us a very short version of your path.
where did you start playing football and
what shaped you and how you see the game?
'Cause I know it's very unique.
Fillipo: first of all,
thank you for having me.
This is really, really nice by you guys.
And, when I started, basically, I play
football since I was born, like, all
the Italians, they, they grew up in
a small city, small village in Italy.
This is what we were doing all day long.
And, I started to play in my village.
and then I was decently, talented
to be bought from a club that
was in the semi-pro here in,
uh, in the, in the region.
And I start to play really young,
sixteen, seventeen years old, with
the adults in a really tough league.
And I became kind of, semi-pro,
pro player that I was, you know,
navigating in these leagues and, trying
to, you know, making money, And, I
play until thirty-two, thirty-three
years old while I was studying.
got a degree in motor science,
and then I was thinking that I was
becoming a performance coach because
I was really into it, you know,
like, performance, like, strength and
conditioning, these kind of things.
And then, and then they offer me
to coach, and I start to coach.
to coach, and then I coached
a little bit in Italy.
And then I had, this opportunity
with, uh, through AC Milan, through
the camps, to come to work in the US.
And, I found a soccer school with a
partner, and then Jeffrey Sounders saw
me working in Long Island and offered
me to be the director of Metoval.
And then is what I started, you know-
To understand what could be, a academy
director in the US, and I basically,
I did all my education in the US.
I redid all my soccer education in, in the
US, and I, and I learn the job in the US.
I learn a lot in the
US, I have to be honest.
So I have to be really thankful
to the system in the US.
Matt: how long ago was, was that
when you first came to America?
And, I guess two parts to this
question, what, what was of
interest to you to come here?
And then secondly, what aligned
to what you expected from American
football, and what surprised you?
Fillipo: Well, it was 2011, 2012.
I was working, in a pro club in
Italy and, I was under contract, but
the thing didn't go through well.
And this guy, this American guy
from New York offered me to come
to the US to see the situation.
I came for two, three months, but then
I saw potential because I saw talent.
I saw a lot of kids play football
with enough talent to be good.
And I said, told my wife that, she's
a teacher, I told her, "You should
go one year in New York, see what's
going on." And then basically I
stayed there for, you know, like for
the rest of the, of the, our life.
I saw really what was the potential,
and found a lot, a lot of, you
know, talented players from all
over the place in the world.
And I said, "If you work in the right
way here, this is gonna be fun. It's
gonna be, you know, it's gonna be
good to develop talented players." But
I didn't know the system, you know?
At the time was academy, if you remember.
There was the academy
Matt: DA.
Yeah,
Fillipo: with the USSF.
So when I started to work with you
know, we had only one team there.
You know, like it was a to get all the
teams and get credible, start to be
credible, create, professional staff,
hire European coaches, you know, at
MetOval, and I think we did, we did a lot.
We did a great job there with Jeffrey
Saunders, with the board, So t-try
to model a little European academy,
you know, with a lot of ideas, with
the coaches from all over the world.
And, it was like, for me, MetOval, it, it,
it is and it it was a laboratory of ideas.
You know, like we were there just
with the passion, curiosity to
understand, to learn every day.
So what can we do?
Where, where football is going, right?
so, and, and we were studying, studying,
studying, looking, try to understand
and, and accepting a lot of mistakes
that we did, but, you know, still try to
develop players and focus only on that.
Never look to results.
And this was our problem at the beginning,
you know, like just, you know, look, look
to develop to, to how to play a football
that was able to develop players, right?
So what is the tool?
And this was our, our,
challenge every day.
So, it was really, really, really
fun, really fun time for me there.
And I model also myself as a
professional because I became better.
I became a leader, strong, not, you know,
like... And when I, when I went to coach
in Ireland, I coached a team that was,
the best team in Ireland at the, at the
moment, even if it was in a bad time.
And for me, it was like
a coach or direct method.
It was the same kind of leadership.
I arrived really sure what I was doing.
I had no problem.
I am a little bit a character like that.
was ready, so it wasn't a problem at all.
So, you know, like growing, growing,
passion, learning every day.
Don't think that you know
because you don't know anything.
The football is like life, like
everything is changing every single day
and we chasing this, this game, right?
Like you guys say, you
know, chase the game.
It's the same thing.
I'm chasing every day.
Liron: in part of our, award-winning
series of, people with accents
talking about soccer, I wanted to
kind of think about this idea of
you coming and, and training in the
United States, then going to Ireland.
Are you bringing Italian football to
where you go or has, has that changed
as far as the years have gone by?
Fillipo: of course we are
coming from a culture, right?
I grew up in, in this extreme obsessed
tactical culture in Italy, where we
are so obsessed about tactical details
That is something that made Italian
football one of the best in the world,
but now is biting us back, you know, like
because the football is ch- is changing.
And, um, this extreme attention
to the tactical part of the game
left behind other things, right?
Because now we go slower.
Now there is no intensity,
there is no rhythm.
We left a little bit
behind the individual, um,
characteristic of the players.
Now we are going back to that because if
you see games like M-Munich against Paris
Matt: yeah.
Fillipo: about 20, 22 duels
g- during the game, right?
There is attention on the
tactical part, don't get me wrong.
But now is more individual attention, it's
like a, a dog that bite his, uh, his tail.
Like, you know, like you are always there.
What you have to develop is the
individual characteristic of the player.
At the end of the day, is in the
in, is the player that make the
difference, is the individual.
So you have to pay attention,
especially in the younger age,
in the individual skills, right?
Technical, tactical, understanding
technically and tactically what you're
gonna do, because you don't know
in what system you're gonna play.
You don't know in what game
model you're gonna play.
So you're cognitively, You, you have to
prepare players that think not that they
are robots, you know, like executing.
And, and football now is going
that direction again, right?
So duels, duels, duels, duels.
When I was the director in, in
Switzerland, uh, for two years,
and we were scouting players,
even with true data, true stuff.
So who's winning duels here?
Liron: Yeah.
Fillipo: Are you winning duels?
Or it's just, you know, oh, he's
a player that can, or can switch,
uh, um, side side s-side of attack.
You know, he's good
techni- Can you win duels?
They are killing you here.
You understand?
Like, it's becoming really good.
And it's not about size.
It's not because you're big and
you... Winning duels is many things.
It's many things in the decision,
in, in, it's not only physical.
Uh, so it's like there is a lot of
things that you have to, to check.
So I don't know what was the question.
I don't know where I went,
Liron: doesn't matter.
I actually don't care.
I actually don't care
what the question was.
I, I, I, I don't even care.
This was, this was brilliant.
Fillipo: Do we have only one hour?
'Cause if you start with
me, it's gonna be long,
Liron: Mr. Italian time is okay.
Matt: we hear in the United States
all the time that Europe develops
better players, but that phrase
can mean a lot of different things.
And even to group Europe as opposed to
individual countries who develop players
very differently as well, do you think
people are talking about when they say
that Europe is a better place to develop,
does a better job developing players?
Fillipo: Listen, I think it's
the level of the competitions.
I think it's the, it's the history,
it's the culture, it's how the people
live football still in Europe compared
to the U.S. Because the kind of
talent, trust me, is not different.
We can find better talents in the
U.S. So, and we can find even club
that they work really well and they
are well direct in the U.S. So, and
we can find a really bad club in
Europe, like develop players in Italy.
that are not, or like the decisions
that the club they make to hire
the right people, that they have to
be on top of the chain to develop
players are not consistent at the
moment, for example, in Italy.
so I don't know if, if, if for me
it's just because, football, really
competitive, really that, that create
the, the challenge for the players
that are higher probably in the U.S.
In term of environment to develop, I
think U.S. is, is coming because also
they are hiring a lot of people from
Europe, a lot from South America.
So there is a mix of culture that
are arriving in the U.S. that make...
It, it's gonna take a little bit
more time probably, but it's coming.
For me, it's coming.
It's coming.
Matt: Yeah.
When, when you say, when you, w-when you
mention the competition part, I think
it's probably partly competition, which
culture is driving competition, but is
the, is the competition, is the challenge
around competition in the US just because
of the, the geographic landscape of
this country to a certain degree that
And, and, and now when you look at what
MLS Next is or you look at what ECNL
is and just the size of those, those
groups, the number of teams in specific
areas, is the competition then being
diluted to a certain degree because
of the number of quote-unquote, elite
academies and, and talents just spread
out and that's therefore making it very
difficult week in and week out to get the
best matches and the best competition..
Fillipo: It's probably
one of the challenge.
Absolutely.
is part the problem, for sure.
to find a solution to that, for me, the
only solution is to invest in the academy.
Meaning in the, in the, in
Matt: The Non-Pro Academy.
Fillipo: yeah, in, in academy like New
York's, New York Soccer Club, like,
and then so, so... And do the right
investment there, help this club,
because they are the club that, you
know, they are in the, in the, in the
community, they are in the territory.
And then if they, they, they work
well, you're gonna probably have
the best talent regroup in Red Bull.
This was our battle when I was there.
Like, make us better, give us
something, help us with resources.
We know how, eventually we know how to run
the show, how to develop, but give us some
resources to do it, scholarship, whatever
it's gonna be, to help you, right?
Liron: When you say
give you, you mean, you,
mean, like, it would be coming
from the pro teams, or would it
be coming from, like, US soccer?
When you say give us some help
Fillipo: No, no, no, from the pro team.
Liron: from the pro teams.
Fillipo: Yeah, because even New York
City FC, Red Bull, they should be
to be stronger with the, the club.
You know, like, okay, help them.
So you get a player from
Metoval, give them money, right?
So give them money.
So give me money to develop
another three or four for you.
They're gonna come to play
for you, or sooner or later.
We don't have a first team,
and I am not interested.
I was calling the club, I was
calling NYCFC or Red Bull to
say, "Listen, I got this kid.
You should look.
I got this one.
You should look." because I'm
in favor of development and
give opportunity to the kids.
Liron: Filippo, let's say I take one of
your American parents, so part of what
Matt was saying about this idea that
American parents have this fixation about
Europe being, in a general, very simple
term, better, better for development.
If I took one of these American
parents from Filippo and I put
them in an equivalent club in
Italy, what would their vision be?
Would they see something different
than they saw at Met OVal, or would
it, would it feel, right at home?
Fillipo: It depend the club where you
put them, because they can be top club
where you n- you're never gonna see
your son train, or you can put your
son in a middle, you know, like, uh,
third division, good environment to,
you know, like middle, good environment
to train, to, to have your kid to
develop, but middle where you have more
access, where is more like, like the
situation you find in the US, right?
Or if you s- if you go to top club,
you're not gonna have access, you're
not gonna have anything, right?
So,
the difference then i- is this.
so I don't know.
I don't know how they
c- they could respond.
And then, listen, crazy
parents are everywhere,
parents are in Italy, in France, in
Ireland, I, I met them everywhere,
but I met the majority were good.
The majority were good.
So,
when we say the problem are
the parents, not really.
No.
The-- I found a lot of parents that
they were helping, they were, they
were good, they were understanding
the, the, development of their kids.
So I don't wanna, I don't wanna
be too hard with parents at all.
Matt: Fillipo, that would be
too easy, Fillipo have talked
The guests on this podcast talked a
lot about how American development
continues to move forward in a, in
a fairly significant pace, But then
one of the other anecdotes that comes
out of it next is the rest of the
world isn't standing still, right?
All these countries are
focused on development and
everybody's moving forward.
So thinking about trying to bridge
a gap, it's not like we're working
against stationary countries who are
just standing still, but I did wanna
ask you about Italy specifically.
So you touched on it a little bit.
has the lack of investment in development
and infrastructure, when I even think
of the professional clubs and stadiums
and everything that comes with it, how
much of the development piece of that has
significantly impacted the national team
and even the ability for younger players
in Italy to come through Serie A and then
be successful, the way you were seeing
in other countries at an early age?.
Fillipo: Hey, you already
gave the the answer.
So
Liron: Matt's very good with that.
Fillipo: this, this is lack, this
lack of investment in infrastructure,
in, in, in, uh, human... Because
you have to invest in the human
be- you have to invest to people.
When, when I, when they talk to me
about projects around the world is we
need to invest to people, with-- to
people that are educated and keep on
going to educate them, you know, like,
so this is, is lacking in Italy a lot.
And still there is a circle of people
that they are working, that they are
not specifically and professionally
educated to do the w- the job.
You understand?
So this is a huge problem.
And they are not paid, and
they are not well paid.
Coaches in Italy are really underpaid,
even in the professional teams.
So as a director at Metoval,
I had my coaches come in the
morning to do coaching education.
They were professional.
I was obsessed with coaching
education, and I obsessed them too.
So we wanna learn, we wanna do better.
In Italy, you cannot do that because the
coaches, even in the, in the pro, maybe
they make 1,500, 1,200 or 1,600 in the, in
the pro environment, and they have to go
to work, and you don't have them with you.
You cannot do coaching education.
They do this like a second job or,
you know, like, this is not serious.
So there is a lack of education
There is a lack of in-infrastructure,
there is a lack, lack of investment
dedicated to the academy.
So we talk about that a lot,
even with investors, even with
the owners, but nobody does
anything at the end of the day.
Liron: No, and it shows,
unfortunately, it shows.
So if, ... I mean, you, you lived
through the American youth system, but
there's ... It's kind of a mess here.
You have different leagues, different
brackets, different tournaments.
So parents ... I'm just speaking
from the parent point of view, you
get really confused and overwhelmed
and you try to say, "Okay, what
tournament am I gonna put my kid in?
What league are they gonna be?
" What extra trainer, because there's so
many extra trainers everywhere, is this
something that, for example, in Italian
football and youth is the same Can you
talk about that difference a little bit?
Fillipo: in Europe, there are
not all this league, all this
tournament, all this extra coaches.
It's really straightforward.
There is a league where your kid play.
It depend of the level, of course,
but if he's regional, he's regional.
If he's in the, you know, like more,
closer in the commun- like there is
two, three leagues that you can play.
There is one federation.
There is not other things or
other organism or, or environment
where you can put your kid, or
you play there, or you play there.
And this for the recruitment, for
the talent, for, identification
is is easier, of course.
This is much, much, much easier.
Because like you were expressing, like
the talent in the US is really Spread out
in many leagues, many, you know, like all
over the place, and you can find players
over everywhere, good players, but then
to go to identify is becoming complicated.
No, it is much easier, much easier
environment for sure, in Europe.
Liron: Yeah, it's very complicated here.
so one of the things that comes back in
this podcast, and you brought a little
bit up, is this ... I know we simplify
it, but we think, okay, soccer culture.
I'm sure you heard that before.
in Italy, for example, it's the main
sport, kids grow up seeing their
parents play, their cousin play.
There's always somebody at the
local team, you see the game
on TV, it's all over the place.
We think in America, or if we had
culture, we would be better at soccer,
but it seems like the decline of ... And
your face, I can tell, already knows
the answer, the decline of, of Italian
football made Matt and I think about the
difference between culture and structure.
Fillipo: in Italy, there is a, there
is a lack of a structure even in
understanding what is-- When, when
you build a club, you have a, you
have to create the culture, right?
So the vision, the mission, the
core values, the behaviors that,
are connected to the core value.
In Italy, it's not, that is not
really the study of this structure.
You know, when you go to do
course in education and stuff, I
never find something like that.
Things that put my understanding of the
game in general in the right place with
the right structure like I had in the US.
What I was studying in Italy was
just the tactical part of the game.
That's it.
So it's the, the pitch.
So how are we gonna attack
in the two versus two there?
How are we gonna defend
in a four on the back?
And there was the best coaches that
they were coming to tell you even when
a foot was, 30 degrees instead of 31
degrees, you understand, to defend better.
Liron: yeah.
Fillipo: Okay.
But the, the other part, how to
create a culture in a club, zero.
So
this lack of structure and
understanding, this is what we
are paying now also in Italy.
If you, if you look, talk about
culture in this kind of, of meaning
Liron: so you're saying watching
footballs in cafes, seeing it on
the newspaper, talking about it all
the time and arguing over it doesn't
automatically make good youth players.
Fillipo: Perfect.
Liron: Wow.
I know.
Fillipo: Perfect.
It's time to, time to move forward
because when they say, "Oh, we
don't play, we don't play anymore,
on the street 12 hours a day.
we don't do this, so this is the
problem of football Okay, we don't
do it, so what we gonna do about it?
Just, just go over this.
I don't wanna hear this anymore.
It's not gonna happen anymore.
It's not gonna happen anymore.
So how we develop players now?
We are more scientific.
Okay, so please let's, let's
be more scientific to do that.
Let's use data.
Let's grow.
What this kind of culture is,
is still alive in South America,
is there where or in Africa.
Okay, there you find this kind
of talented players because they
have their, this kind of life, but
not in our environment anymore.
Not even in my village kids, they
play football like we were playing,
and we have a lot of space here.
But it's different.
Life is different.
Life is different, so we need
to find the other way to develop
players in a more scientific way.
Please, that's it.
Just, just do it.
Matt: Yeah.
Filippo, I'm curious, a 13 or
14-year-old European player
playing at a top academy there.
What does the American player ... It's
tough to generalize around this, but
what could the American player who's
also a strong player playing at a Top
Academy potentially be missing that,
that your same European player who's
grown up in a top academy there has?
Fillipo: if the talented player in
the US is in a top environment in
the US, in a top academy, like the
top talented player is in a top, I
don't think he's missing nothing.
Matt: We, we've also had academy
directors at Orlando or at DC United,
so some of the professional academies,
NYCFC and there seemingly does
become a greater gap at, like, 16
or 17 years old for whatever reason.
Is that, is that a fallacy, do you
think, or does that gap, does their
gap become a little bit greater?
Fillipo: at the end of the
day we need to understand.
why?
Why at 16, 17 this happen here?
So what is the trajectory change?
Because there is the college
system, because there is, you
know, focus on other things.
I don't know.
I don't know.
The obsession on, on be pro is
still bigger in Europe, right?
Or in Italy or you do everything.
You don't study here to be pro, right
? So you do everything to be a pro.
we need to see numbers, we
need to see the statistic
Matt: yeah.
I, I mean, this, this is
purely, purely opinion.
I get the sense that American youth
players have this dream of playing
professional, And then they get to 14
or 15 or 16, and they all of a sudden
they re- realize like, "Oh, I'm not
good enough to play in the Premier
League or to play for Man City," right?
And then their focus maybe starts
to change a little bit, which is,
I wanna get into a great college.
Soccer can be that vehicle for me.
You've coached all the way through.
I mean, Do you think
there's some truth to that,
Fillipo: yeah, because this is the
football, the soccer that you know
from US about the... You follow
the, the bigger leagues, right?
And then this is what
you idolize, you know.
Like you see this and, and, you don't
see what I went through in Italy
playing as a semi-pro and I'm gonna
play in third division, I'm gonna have
fun, I'm gonna make good money, I'm
gonna make 60, 70, 80,000 per year.
No education.
Yeah, great experience.
At 30 years old, my career end
if I have no injury, then what?
for my son, I want my son educated.
I don't care about car- football career.
Like, you know, like unless you are one
of the, the few that you're gonna be at
the top, uh, top level in top leagues,
I wouldn't go through this pathway.
I'm, I'm honest with you guys.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: in the United States, soccer is
expensive, and, I think we don't need to
have a podcast to know that it's probably
more expensive than it is in Europe.
we're talking about tournaments,
fees, kids, whatever.
It could be $10-20,000 a year
for some kids in some areas.
that money's not coming from the
kid, it's coming from the parent.
So parents in the United States,
whether they like it or not, have a
much bigger part of the path of the kid
and have a lot more interest because
they're spending huge amount of money.
So also, another dilemma is that
a lot of the parents here they
didn't grow up playing the game.
So Filippo, you were
exposed to all of that.
Do you feel like the American
parent is more involved, for
example, than the European parent,
And if so, how- how did you deal
with that when you were, in Met Oval?
Fillipo: I, I saw parents that
they educated for inheritance
for where they were coming from,
They, they were decently educated.
I saw parent that they were not educated
if, I s- I went through everything.
sometimes I prefer the people that they
are not educated, because, then when you
are a little bit educated in football,
you think that you know, which is the
most dangerous Parents you can find
when you start to talk, you know, like
because they play a little bit in high
school or they watch couple of games
on football then it's becoming a bomb,
you know, like it's, it's of waste of
time when I was at Metoval, because
maybe it's my age when I was going to
the meeting, I said, "I'm gonna talk
and you cannot even ask question."
I'm gonna tell you what is gonna be.
Sometimes I did that because I was
desperate, you know, like, but then
they were looking to me like, a, you
know, the Italian crazy guy that,
you know, that is old now and then
maybe can say that, you understand?
Liron: I do.
I trust you.
I do understand.
Fillipo: yeah, because I was at
the point where, it it was a waste
of time and it was a waste of time
for the development of the kids,
you know, like, just let me work.
I don't... Stop, please.
I went through this situation, but
then I went through with really many
really good situation where parents
were really helpful, really understand,
you know, like, and, and, and was good.
My son
was in taekwondo when he was there.
It was really expensive.
Matt: Did, did you become an
expert in TaeKwonDo so you
could fully understand it?
Fillipo: love it.
So I was going there, I was watching,
and I don't understand anything.
I was, you know, see, I like fight sport a
lot, is my, And, but I was just enjoying.
I can't say how to make a kick, a back
kick or I don't know, and w- this is
the good part, and I never ask or never,
I was just going there, watch and pay.
That's it.
And enjoy the tournament or enjoy when
he was working, and I told my son, I
remember one day I told him something
about we were coming back to, I said,
"If you don't work hard, I'm gonna take
you out from the, from the last, from
the school." The only thing I told him,
because I saw him that was not engaged.
This was, I could see that.
So I said, or you work or it's over.
But I didn't go to the coach
or to the director there.
And Just one day, one time I
spoke about that with my son.
That's it, finito.
And I didn't tell him anymore
anything because also I don't know.
So See, yes, it's a lot of money.
It is.
It is.
It could be also a little bit an
investment thinking to the college.
Okay, make my son better.
I don't know, like Or
it's just the system.
But, you know, like if What I'm thinking
sometimes is, but if the parents that
were not paying How I can pay my coaches
coming from Holland, from Italy, create
the best environment I can for the kids
if we are not, you know, like a club like
Metova, how you can survive, you know?
the end of the year the board is there
to make money and they don't care.
They are there to give
back to the community.
with all the scholarship we
give around, we don't even break
even, I think, so Absolutely not.
So, and, and we try to always
to make the environment better,
investing, investing, it's a lot.
Matt: Filippo, specific to development
and parents, whether you have a great
understanding as a parent of the game or
you don't, I think we're always looking
for specific areas in which we can say, my
son or daughter is getting better." Right?
It's hard to see it.
It's certainly hard to see it
from month to month or even from
year to year to a certain degree.
but say like a, a 12-year-old kid
who's playing at a high level academy,
what should a parent be looking for
to see if their player is really
developing in that environment
and it's the right place for them?
Fillipo: the first
thing, is he happy to go?
Is he happy to go there to be
with his friends, to be with the
coach, to be in that environment?
this is really important part.
is talking about with fun about
football, about he want, you know, like
he's, he's, he's learning, absorbing.
Then if you talk to me about what it,
what a parent should look what he's
learning in term of skills, or something
is hitting you really well, like, okay,
now he's, you know, more, how do you
say, relaxed in the pitch when he's
making decision or, or he's more, uh,
you say it, you see his body language
you have to look this kind of things.
He's enjoying the game, right?
Because if you tell me, oh, his
first touch is better under pressure
in in a third of attack, yeah.
I mean, do we have number on that?
This is something that... Because at
MetOval, we were doing that at some point.
I took a platform that was analyzing the
game technically and tactically because
we went through, because I was so tired
about opinions that I said, we're gonna
do this like in the pro, So, and we we
brought statistic in to check this, right?
And we were sending this to
the parents, the statistic.
So then this became really dangerous,
you know, because play-- because
many parents, they start to analyze
statistic about their, their kids.
Even pa- even parents that they were
not super understanding of the game, but
they can read the statistic better than
us, you know, like, uh, smart people.
So what you should look for me
as a parent is this: Is enjoying
the game, is relaxing, is, is
making decision in, in his own.
You know, is not, is not worry about what
looking to you when he's making a play
or looking to the coach, you know, look
to make him happy or is doing his stuff.
You know, is he learning to be in an
environment, in a system, in a team?
He's playing with other people.
You know, he's moving well, so his
cognitive system is processing things.
Like, you can see a kid, right?
That is if he's more, you know,
comfortable in the situation.
And then how he's reacting in, when he's
making mistake, how he's reacting on
challenges, you know, like somebody's
beating him or, or whatever it is.
He's reacting well.
He's keep on going to play.
Next play, don't worry.
You know, like, he's, he's making better
to do this because this is the foundation,
more than the technical skills.
How is he reacting to mistakes?
How is he reacting to
challenge, to adversity?
This is where you have to
see, okay, yeah, s gonna come.
The kid has balls, you know, like
he's learning, like he's not afraid.
Those are the things that are interesting.
I think that this you can see as a
parent, even if you don't know the
game really well, even if you don't
understand what is to find a third
man under pressure, it doesn't matter.
You understand?
you know, he's going to the
1v1 Okay, how many times he's
winning 1v1 Oh, three out of 10.
Yeah, but what is count
is the 10 that he tried.
You understand?
Because he win three out of
five, oh, it's a good percentage.
good statistic.
But he did only five.
He could do 10.
Why he didn't do the other five Right?
So he's worried.
He doesn't wanna do it.
He doesn't wanna try.
So those are things that me are
important, and this is how you
interpretate the statistic then, right?
Because three out of five or four
out of five, you say, "Oh, this
kid is really good. He's winning."
Yeah, but he could do 10.
Matt: listen, I can certainly
speak for myself that I've tried to
overcomplicate the analysis around what
development looks like and in some ways
it's like, just simplify it, right?
Look for body language, um, look f- to
your point around when you're able to
take those chances or when do you play
safely and, and at the end of the day,
is your kid happy in the environment?
That's what we all want, I think, as
parents, is our kids to be happy and to
be thriving and to be pushing themselves.
And without that, then what are
we doing this all for, right?
Fillipo: and something
is gonna happen there.
In that process of development,
something good is gonna happen, I'm sure.
Because if you miss this part, and you
always worry, and somewhere is gonna
stop, because the amount of stress,
that is coming from, I don't know from
where, from a coach, from a parent, from
a teammate, is gonna create problem to
the, to the the motor of the development.
Liron: to Matt's point though,
I'm guilty of it too, of course.
very difficult for us to tell if
the kid is really progressing.
I understand the simple way of what you
said to look at, okay, is the kid happy?
Are they trying?
I mean, but ... So what we do is we have
extra sessions, we have private trainers,
where somebody said, "Oh, the kid doesn't
get enough minutes," so we put them in
tournaments, we put them in all these
things outside of the four times a week
plus game that they do in their clubs.
Do you think, and I'm not gonna put you
on the spot, Do you think that's useful as
an idea or, or to you it just looks like
just people are out of control with this?
Fillipo: the thing that I don't
like, and when you say, "We put
the kids, so it's like if you
force them, him to do th- that.
Does he like to do it?
Does he asking?
Is he obsessed by himself of the game?
Because all the best player in
the world, they are obsessed All
the, the successful player are
obsessed in what they do, right?
You guys probably in your job,
I am obsessed in my, what I do.
so you gotta, you have to have
something to be successful.
So are, are they asking?
They wanna do it, they wanna do
more, they're asking, they wanna...
Or you guys decide, no, you
should do more because of, right?
So then your kid is a soldier and
he's gonna execute what you want.
We sometimes bring the
player in a big career.
There are many example of fathers that
they force their kids in a certain area
and they become really successful, right?
don't know if this is
the right way to do it.
Of course, listen, if you wanna
succeed, you have to work hard,
and you have to work maybe harder
than the majority of the others.
This is for sure.
But it's something that has to
come from, from inside, you know?
Like you have to see this love and
then help with opportunities for sure.
And then it depend the age, yeah.
Careful with the age.
When we were talking about enjoy the
game and these kind of things, when the
kids are really young, 12, 13, 14, it's
there where you have to look only this.
Later, 15, 16, 17, you can
start to look something more
specific in term of improvement.
But until they are 12, let's
say 14 and down, nothing.
enjoy the game, you know.
then you can start to a- look
to work harder and specialized,
let's say that, in certain things.
I have nothing against
Matt: Filippo, you were able to make a
jump from running, an incredible youth
academy to becoming a professional
manager in Ireland, and to take a team
to Europe in Europa League, and you've
also been a technical director for
a professional team in Switzerland.
the jump that you made is very unique,
which I think talks to who you are as
a football lifer, right, And to your
obsession and have a lot of success
doing that, and then becoming this
technical director in Switzerland,
what, what surprised you about the
jump, what was the most difficult, and
what did you take away from all of it?
the
Fillipo: from, things that are disturbing
what I was not really, happy with was
the, the BS around the gossip, the
stupidity, the things that are not
necessary on football to make a club
better, to make a team better, to make...
And this was a little bit annoying
me are things that I'm not prepared.
I don't care about that, You give me
something to do, I'm gonna do this all
day long, and all the disturbing coming
from the BS, from social media, from all
these things that are disturbing people,
and then you have to deal with that
because player is crying, because somebody
in the social media is, is disturbing.
I have love of the game.
I have passion.
I wanna talk about that.
I wanna be focused on that.
I, I don't wanna waste time with the,
with the other part of the game But
at the end of the day, that is part
of the game, is part of the life.
But when we say, be careful, when
we say, "Oh, well, soccer, football
is like that, no, I don't think so.
Why I have to accept that?
I'm not gonna accept that.
I'm not like that.
You understand what I mean?
Oh, you have, it's part of the game.
No.
Who say that?
It's not part of my game.
You understand what I mean?
Like,
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: So Filippo, as you made the
transition into the professional, senior
level team, did you look at it now and
you go, "Oh, I should have done something
differently at MedOval with the youth?"
Fillipo: Metoval was a pure environment.
it was a laboratory of, like I told
you guys, a laboratory of ideas.
it was not disturbed from nothing.
It was just about football.
You understand?
if I'm thinking what I could bring
back, of course, experience of
high-level football that understand
how the game is now and is looked
now from professional that can help
how to build players better, right?
Where you have to put more attention
now when you develop players,
because you have to follow the game.
So if I'm thinking to the professional
game now, of course, there are many accent
that you have to put into development now
when you spend time developed players.
you need to understand the game
at high level to see how, so how
are we gonna develop players now?
what we gonna do?
How we, where football is going, so
how we can help these kids to have
access to this kind of football.
Matt: so hard to do this without
generalizing, but I guess from what you
saw your time in the US, do we spend
too much on tactics too early for kids
before they even can use both of their
feet effectively before they know how
to win a 1v1 duel, for example, is there
too much time and training spent on
tactics before kids are 12 or 13 or 14
years old and not enough time just purely
on the technical side of development?
Fillipo: Sometimes, yeah, When you
see a f- a team U9, U10, U11, U12,
U13, they play really good football,
passing the ball around, combination,
score goals, I'm not happy about
that because this is the coach team.
The, the coach is watching the mirror,
"Oh, look, my team is playing good
football." I don't care about that.
I wanna see kids that they have
experience, that they win duels,
they go, they go hard, and then, and
they have, you know, they make their
decision, they make a lot of mistakes.
I don't care to see teams that
they play great football if
I don't know, even now I change
my mind because I don't even know
what is good football anymore.
Matt: Mm.
Fillipo: You know, like
this is another question.
But anyway, I went through
this even as a coach.
I had, we were obsessed for a game model
when I was at MetOval We were playing,
a certain football, and then little by
little we start to change and... But,
game model is important, but has to be
the, a tool to develop players, right?
So because when you talk about, when
you do a presentation to the game
model and you say all the things that
they influence the game model, right?
So the quality of the players, the
culture of the club, the culture of
the country, the situation of the
league, blah, blah, blah, all things
that can influence a game model.
Now you have to take out the
game model from the center.
You have to put the player inside, and
the game model is outside, because what
is important is what influence the quality
of the players, not what influence the
game model we need to keep on thinking,
take out of our mind that we know
things and things are cer- Oh, you have
to do like that to develop a player.
No, you don't know.
You know, like y- you really don't know.
I- it's something that is moving,
is moving, is moving, is moving.
Matt: So Filippo, you're saying
that all of us basically in the
same age range here, we're never
too old to continue to evolve, huh?
So there's there's hope for us
Fillipo: Absolutely.
Liron: we learn, we learn
how to produce a podcast, so
Matt: Eh.
Liron: that's, uh, I gotta tell
you, uh,
Fillipo: hopefully this help people
because we are looking for clarity.
always pushing on clarity,
clarity, clarity, clarity.
Liron: Yeah.
Fillipo: Okay.
But I don't know.
Is clarity what we are looking for?
or we are looking to moving
forward to see things?
Because when something is clear
for you, okay, you know how to
do one thing, then what's next?
It's just this?
It's finished?
It's clear.
So we're done.
We don't need to do anything else.
I don't think so.
I don't have clarity at the moment,
you know, like nothing is clear for me.
I'm looking to learn and do things
better and, and, uh, what I did 10
minutes ago is not working anymore
Matt: I'm curious with, with the
incredible experience that you
have and the impact that you've had
in so many different environments
professionally as well as the
youth, what, what is next for you?
Fillipo: if you are, um, listening
even the great mind in football now
in the world, it is the question that
they are asking themself every day.
Because everything is evolving,
and is evolving really fast, right?
The game, the environment, the investors,
globali-globalization of the game.
everything is so fast because before,
like I told you guys, I had everything
clear in my mind how to develop players
or how to do things, in this moment is
more, in a gray area and, and has to
be a, a research and, and people that
they get together with ideas, with
data, with the statistic, with things
that they bring you to next steps.
But not to one next step, to
what is gonna be in the future.
I don't know where we're going.
I'm looking, I'm researching, I see a lot
of- room of improvement in the minds of
the, of the athlete, in the psychology.
I saw a lot of improvement in
the, uh, relationship inside the
teams, inside the club, inside the
working people inside the club.
where things are moving physically, things
are exploding in a different direction.
The kind of athlete, the w- soccer
player is now is completely different
than was one year ago, two years ago.
Now the recovery is 72 hours, even
more, and it's not anymore 48 what
we did yesterday it's not working.
What I'm seeing now, that the
players, they have to think and they
have to make their own decisions.
They have to be able to play
everywhere, in every system, in every
way, in every position on the pitch.
If you listen what Luis Enrique said
in, uh, one of his last interview,
he said, "I'm dreaming players,
they can play all the position that
I have not system anymore and not
position on the pitch anymore."
Matt: Yeah.
Fillipo: Is this the future?
I don't know
Liron: The theme of this, of
this interview with you is
about it is about evolution.
It's about things changing quickly, and
are you adapting to it and moving forward
with it, or you're standing on the side?
this is incredibly, uh, powerful.
as we trying to wrap up, I wanna ... We
do like this thing called rapid
fire where we ask short questions
Matt: by the way, our, our rapid
fire is far from rapid fire ever.
Liron: we actually call it rapid fire
because usually Matt's questions are 15
minutes, so this means it's rapid fire
for Matt's questions, not the answer.
No, the answers can be long.
Matt: what, about after all
these years, what has America
taught you about football?
Fillipo: Well, what I learned
in America through my education
was how to structure a business.
How to structure a business in a club.
in term of, business, not only
financial, to see the football club
in, in, in his entire size, like
the structure, entire structure.
So from the culture to the tactical,
to the detail of the sub-sub-principle.
This is what made me
more clear in my mind.
Liron: Director, give me a one sentence,
two sentence definition of, in your
eyes, what is a a real footballer?
Fillipo: Is a learner with grit.
Liron: Okay.
Fillipo: I read a book about grit recently
Matt: Yeah.
Fillipo: and that explain all the
success that less talented player
with grit achieve to become top their
work, all, in all their jobs in the
world, just because they had grit.
Liron: Yeah,
it's a, it's a term we hear a lot, but,
uh, it's something I don't, I don't
know if a lot of our kids have it.
That's, uh, it's not easy to, to get
because it, you can't just go get
a, take a class in grit.
Fillipo: Bravo.
Bravo.
This is, this is was something that
was, when I was recruiting players,
Liron: Yeah.
Fillipo: before when you scouted,
identified players, what before
was a given was the grit.
All of us, we had grit, we had, we were
tough, Now the talent is becoming this.
So there is more talented players,
the talent is becoming the grit, it's
becoming the hard this ob- obsession
to work, this can he learn, can he
be strong, can he, can he, you know,
can he be there all, every game?
This is a talent now.
Matt: it's become harder and harder,
I would imagine, to scout players,
because we've got all these resources
and all this video and all the analytics,
but you can't scout grit, right?
You don't know the adversity
that a player has overcome.
They could show up incredibly well in
a match, they can show up incredibly
well on video, but until you know
a player, right, and understand how
they're made and what drives them
and what kind of grit they have, it's
difficult, I would imagine, to forecast
what they're going to be in five years.
Fillipo: Absolutely.
Liron: Director, we did an interview
last week with a, English PhD who's
followed 300 academy players in England.
and he said all the kids were talented,
obviously, and they're all academy kids,
but the, the separation was attitude.
It wasn't that you can
tell what attitude is.
And he, when he interviewed the scouts
and he interviewed the coaches, they
couldn't give him a definition of what
the attitude was, but it was, it was
something, and that missing piece is the
difference between all these kids that
are more or less in the same talent level.
Fillipo: Absolutely.
I told you is the one
that makes the difference.
A 100%.
It's not a given anymore.
Matt: Yes, There are no givens.
Where has the US improved the
most since you first arrived?
Fillipo: think the
understanding of the game.
a little bit more attention on details.
Um, before it was more, you know,
like, uh, press, uh, screaming
Liron: Press.
Fillipo: I don't know.
Now, now there is a little bit
more, you know, understanding
of the game and everything.
There is more study, absolutely, 100%.
Liron: Ooh, that was,
uh, that was something.
All right.
Fillipo: I always say to my players, I
hope I didn't clarify anything, but I
hope, uh, that the doubt that now you
have, you're gonna go through and you're
gonna find a way to clarify by yourself
Liron: no, I'm much, I'm
much more confused now, for
sure, than before we started.
Fillipo: Yeah, but this was my objective.
Liron: Yeah, you worked.
You did a good job.
Fillipo: It,
a pleasure, was a pleasure
to be with you guys.
Thank you.
Uh, always good to, to talk
about football and, uh, and,
Liron: was an honor for us.
Fillipo: I'm gonna be there, for
a camp in, uh, now in the summer,
there at Metoval and, uh, we're
gonna, share with the kids knowledge
and stuff about, about the game.
Liron: where can our, uh, listeners,
have information about this experience?
Fillipo: Yeah, Metoval website.
I think they already launched something.
Liron: Okay.
Fillipo: uh, yeah, I'm gonna
be there three weeks, and, uh,
Liron: Okay.
All right.
Well, we can't wait to
see you face to face then.
That would be a great opportunity.
Fillipo: We're gonna go
out for dinner for sure.
Wow, if anybody saw me what I'm doing with my hands
right now, wow, wow, wow.
Take it, Matt.
I think there's so many takeaways, but I think of one
of the practical, really practical takeaways from Filippo is that parents
should be careful with certainty
because the game is nonsensestanding still.
The club environment matters.
The training matters, the coach matters.
But none of those things should become fixed answers that stop
people from asking better questions.
Yeah, I'm going to take a line.
One of so many, it was so hard to pick the ones that represent this.
football is like life.
Like everything is changing every single day.
This is is hard thing for parents because we want clarity, right?
We talked about it in previous episodes.
We want to know the right path, we want to know if our kid is in the right place.
But the game doesn't always give you all that comfort
And then Filippo says something even sharper.
What I did 10 minutes ago is not working anymore.
That is the episode.
It's not nostalgia.
It's not romance.
It is not, this is how we used to do it.
It is a reminder that the player
has to keep adopting.
And so do the adults around the player.
Yeah, and then there were duels.
Filippo says, winning duels is many things.
So it's not just being bigger, right?
Not being stronger.
It's about decision-making, courage, timing, repetition
the ability to fail and go at it again.
For a parent, that means sometimes that the best environment
is not the one that looks the cleanest.
It may be one where your child has to solve more, compete
more, and own more of the game.
I don't know about you, Liron, but I felt like I was ready to
put my boots back on and go back out there after this conversation with Filippo.
Maybe the simplest line and the best one.
When Liron asked what makes a real footballer, Fillipo said,
a learner with grit
that is a different way to evaluate a player.
It's not just the badge, it's not just the team.
It's not just how polished they look at 11 or 12.
Can they continue to learn?
Do they want to learn?
Can they adjust?
Can they stay in it when the game gets uncomfortable?
Yeah, and huge things to Director Filipo.
Mr, thank you for bringing all this honesty,
asking the questions and confusing us, and
yes, the accent, man, badge of honor for that.
Filipo has mentioned that he'll be back at Met
Oval this summer for a camp
Listeners, if you need more information, just go to the Med Oval website
or you can contact us.
You, they should start doing like fantasy camps for
old people like O. Can you imagine?
I'll tell you, All I want to do is play now.
A bunch of 50 year olds going out there in duels,
how quickly we all fall to the ground.
Chasing the game, the return.
If this episode helped you think differently about your own player,
share it with another parent, family
or team chat.
Wow, team chat, that's new.
Thanks, Liron.
Yeah, I'm trying, yeah.
And this is Chasing the game, Youth Soccer in America.
Matt and Liron are winning duels.
Oh, man.