Ep. 92: Joel Struthers: From the French Foreign Legion to Private Military Contractor

Get ready for an exciting and informative episode of the Silvercore Podcast with Joel Struthers, author and former member of the French Foreign Legion.

In this episode, Travis Bader sits down with Joel to discuss his time in the Legion and his experiences as a private military contractor.

With a background in flying helicopters and operating his own company, Raven Hill Risk Control, Joel has plenty of interesting stories to share. 

 

Follow Joel and purchase his books Appel and Civil with the links below:

Appel- http://amzn.to/3HPeS0H0

Civil - https://amzn.to/3GbJUyR   https://legionengineered.com 
http://linkedin.com/in/joel-struthers  

______

Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4
Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U
Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU
Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9
Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W

Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav
Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors

____

What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore Podcast.

Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

know by sharing, commenting and
following so that you can join in on

everything that Silvercore stands for.

If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

today I am joined by a man who, when he
isn't flying helicopters or operating

his company, Raven Hill Risk Control.

He's writing books, detailing his time
with the French Foreign Legion, or

working as a private military contractor.

Author of the books, Appell and
Civil welcome to the Silvercore

Podcast, Joel Struthers.

Joel Struthers: Thank you, sir.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, Joel.

Travis Bader: I've been looking
forward to this for a while.

This is, um, I've read your books.

Love 'em.

They're amazing.

Uh, really interesting background.

Your name's been floating around.

For a long time now.

Uh, some similar people, similar circles.

I've done a little bit of,
uh, uh, research on the past.

I'm really, really, um, really
pleased to be able to have this

Joel Struthers: opportunity.

No, I, well, thank you for having me.

I appreciate it.

Vice versa.

Um, yeah.

Glad we could, we could do this.

. Well,

Travis Bader: this isn't
your first podcast.

In fact, you were on a pretty
big podcast in the past,

which was, uh, uh, a neat one.

That was a long, long episode
with a ton of great information.

But you were on Jocko's podcast

Joel Struthers: before, eh?

It was as in, yeah, it was long, correct.

Yeah.

That was the first, uh,
first podcast I'd ever done.

So it was a bit of a, an
introduction trial by fire.

No kidding.

Um, and yeah, talking for, I think
we almost talked for four hours.

That's tough.

That's about my quota for six months.

fact.

That's right.

This would be my second in person.

Um, so I haven't done another
one since, since Jocko.

I've done a couple Zoom ones.

Yeah.

But, uh, yeah, I'm happy to,
do I find this much more Yeah.

Effective?

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Zoom's never the same.

Get getting online.

He, yeah.

Trying to pick up on this nuances,
the para verbal, the non-verbal,

and it's just if someone's kicking
you under the table, alright.

You just don't get that anymore.

Yeah, no, true.

So, okay.

I'd imagine it's gotta be pretty
nerve-wracking to go in and do your

very first podcast to be on such
a large platform like that where

hundreds of thousands of people will
be listening to your, to your story.

How, we'll, we'll talk about some
of the earlier stuff, but I'm just

kind of curious on that podcast
one, how did that come about?

And I got a bit of an idea from reading
your books and, um, what was it like?

Like what, what was that whole experience

Joel Struthers: like?

Oh, great.

Um, good question.

Um, so the Jocko podcast came.

Someone suggested actually sending
him a Hail Mary copy of the book

Appell, which I did and I'd forgotten
about it to be honest with you.

And then one day in the mail
was a card from Jocko saying,

Hey, you know, enjoy the book.

Would you be interested in coming
down and, and doing the podcast?

Wow.

So obviously I was, yeah, yeah.

I committed at that point.

Um, so then what I did, I had a, a
couple months before I had to fly

down to, uh, San Diego, I watched
as many episodes as I could.

Uh, obviously his podcast.

Yeah.

Get a, get an idea of, of
his, um, interview style.

Mm-hmm.

, what type of questions he likes,
what he'd focus on, and also

just the setting of the room.

Right.

Hoping that when I got there, I would
be comfortable and it would be, cuz

obviously that was gonna be my first
kick of the cat, the fact that it

was filmed and a big part of the, um,
well, not depredation, but you know,

obviously the, the worry was that.

In a podcast as such, I would be
representing somewhat Legionnaire, right?

Because albeit I'm out, I'm
no longer Legionnaire, I'm not

representing all Legionnaires.

I would be, you know, potentially
the first, kind of, first look at

Legionnaire for a lot of that demographic.

Certainly the States and North America,
you know, which is obviously the yeah.

The Prime Watcher for
that, uh, that podcast.

So I had to choose, um, my wording
carefully on how I answered

certain things and came across.

So I think you, you know, for those
that have watcher or do watch it, I

think you can tell at the beginning
I'm kind of a bit, you know, um,

less forthcoming and more careful.

It's like, I'm not saying a
word , and then you forget, right?

I mean, obviously I have
microphone in front of me, I've

got the cameras in my face.

There's, you know, echo sitting there.

Yeah.

Um, so it took a while to kind of just
relax and then once the con conversation

started to flow, then you forget.

Right?

And then I would answer somewhat, uh, you
know, Get a little bit more comfortable.

Yeah.

So I think it, you know, the
latter half of the, the interview's

a little more flowing and, and
easier to, to listen to perhaps.

I haven't listened to the whole thing.

I, I can't stand listening to
myself to be honest with you,

but I watched parts of it.

Yeah.

Um, just to see, you know, it
didn't come across like a total

idiot, but, uh, Yeah, it was.

Uh, but obviously Jocko was very
good and skilled at what he does.

Yeah, he is.

And, uh, that four hours flew
by him before he knew it.

It was, it was over and I was sucking
back his, his Jocko drink there.

So I had Oh yes.

The old, uh, yeah, old Jocko
Juice talk flow was gone.

Yes.

But yeah, no, it was, um, yeah,
it was quite the introduction.

Uh, and then obviously opened up that,
uh, you know, that whole demographic

for, so it was big for, for Appelle.

Travis Bader: What did you
find the response after

Joel Struthers: that?

Um, it was good.

I don't spend too much time,
you know, looking at comments

or all kind of stuff mm-hmm.

But I think we're all human and we do,
so I, I was keen on kind of seeing what.

The reception or what the view
was from, from watchers and Yeah.

It seemed, uh, it seemed positive.

Um, so I, I monitored that obviously
the sales of the book Right.

Took it, took an increase as a result.

But what I noticed, or sorry, what
I noticed the most was I had a

lot of people reach out that were
interested in the Legion and that had

questions about, you know, potentially
joining and asking questions.

Um, no, obviously, I mean, I
left the Legion what, in 2000,

so it's been a chunk of time.

Sure.

I think I did that podcast two
years ago, just over two years ago.

Mm-hmm.

. So I'm not a recruiter.

The legion's obviously changed,
but you know, I respect that

people asking and reaching out.

So I do respond, um, and I try to,
Point them in the right direction.

And that was, at the end of the day,
the objective of Appell was to educate.

There's so much bullshit out there
and misconceptions and, you know, um,

I just kind of finally came around
and said, listen, maybe it's on me

to share a story that's factual.

Um, and in the case of Appell, there
was three things that I, I needed

for it before I would let it go out.

It was that the Legion
approved the narrative.

Mm-hmm.

, um, I had a Ford from a, an
acting officer within which, you

know, gives the story legitimacy.

Totally.

And that there was a, um, a
reputable publisher that would

put it out and you got all three.

So, so, yeah.

So that was, and I knew
nothing about books.

I'm not a writer per se,
you know what I mean?

This was just something I felt
like maybe it was on me to do.

And for those who wanted to, to know
the facts, they could read a book

and be educated factually, you know?

Travis Bader: Um, isn't that funny?

I'm not a writer.

I've got a couple books, you
know, I'm not really a writer.

Well,

Joel Struthers: yeah, but I'm not,
you know, I mean, I don't know.

Yeah.

How do you, it takes a lot of work.

Um, obviously I'm able to share a story
because I was obviously the main actor

in that story, but with like Appell and
Seville, obviously an editor is a big

help just for the, uh, grammatical side
of stuff, you know, you know, um, and,

uh, well, we can get into that putting
book together is, is is challenging.

Yeah.

Well,

Travis Bader: it was, it's funny,
uh, Dean Nugent was on a podcast

with Ja Spud, who, friends of mine.

Yeah.

Um, British Army talking about, uh,
uh, mental health and a nu number of

diff different things transitioning and
from the army life to civilian life.

And, uh, Jace has gotten
into mountain guiding.

Mm-hmm.

, he's a firefighter, a Acmg mountain
guide, and he's out in the, the

hills and climbing all the time.

And Dean was out there climbing
with him, and some girl says,

oh, so you're a climber?

He is like, no, no, no, no.

I'm not a climber.

Right.

I just, he's like, oh,
you got all the kit.

You're going up and down the rock.

You kinda look like climber.

Climber.

He's like, Well, I, I guess so.

It's cuz I'm, I guess I'm comparing
myself to these other people

who, I view them as climbers, but
people are all looking at you.

Oh, I'm not really a writer.

Well, you've got a couple
great books out there.

You're a writer.

Fair.

Joel Struthers: Yeah.

Um, yeah, it's having books
is a bit of a weird thing.

Right.

. I mean, it's, you put yourself out there.

Um, but yeah.

Uh, I will say I'm proud of them.

Yeah.

Um, but it's not something that
I actively look and seek to do.

Like, would they be a third?

I, I certainly don't think so,
unless life put a story out there

that I felt was worth sharing.

Um, but yeah, these two just came
to be for, for whatever reason.

Travis Bader: Well, what were some of
the most common questions that you'd get

from people after doing the last podcast
and people were interested in the Legion?

What, what do you see
come up over and over?

Joel Struthers: A lot of times
they were asking if they thought

they would gimme a brief rundown of
their situation in life and he did.

I think they would get accepted.

Hmm.

Um, and typically, My answer would
be, you won't know unless you try.

Right?

I'm certainly not the, you know, I
don't have the, the facts and I don't

know if they're gonna get in out.

All you can do is go, if that's
what you want to do, and you be

careful on what you wish for.

We, we'll get to that.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, just be prepared.

Go over and give it a shot.

And then you've, you know, life is short.

You only got one shot.

If that's something you
wanna do, you gotta do it.

But if you're asking me 20 questions,
, chances are it's not for you.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I think typically the people that
join us, they see this thing, the

legion, they, they look into it.

That's something I'd like to
try and you just go, right.

Um, another case, I've actually
talked to one person on the phone.

I gave him, you know, the respect that
he reached out and he was a young, uh,

Navy officer, went to, uh, went to the
academy and I guess in the SEAL system,

you know, I'm not, not that I'm a, I
know much about it, but from what he told

me as the officers pre, uh, selection
buds, whatever, they go through a

pre-screening for the officers to make
sure that they're of a proper quality.

He, he had to, his class, I think
at the academy was a wrestler.

Um, you know, fit young guy went
through buds and got injured.

Mm.

Um, went through the rehab process,
got back in, did a second attempt,

got through the, uh, you know, the
initial phase and was in the training.

You know, it takes about a year
and a half before they're given

their, their tri and whatever.

Mm-hmm.

He was injured.

Again, I think it was
a diving incident and.

In the blood tests, they found a,
uh, spiked level of testosterone.

So in his recovery period, he
had taken tears or whatever Sure.

As I think probably 80%, whatever.

Sure, sure.

They kicked him out.

The Navy had said, that's it.

You're, you're out.

Hmm.

Um, so he had called me.

Um, he was obviously, you know,
a young man wanted to service

country and he was a bit lost.

He felt that was unfair and I, I agreed.

I thought that was unfair, and
that's why I talked to him on the

phone and he said he was thinking
about going over to France to join.

Um, so we had a, a frank discussion
about his level of education, his place

in life, what he was looking for, and
I just, I was just honest with him.

I said, listen, you know, it's an
option, but it's not the only option.

Choose wisely and Right.

I didn't, you know, I
won't go into it too much.

That's between him and I, but Sure.

I, I never heard from him again.

I don't know if he went over and did
it, but, You know, I think certain

people, it would be a, a good experience.

Others not.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: Who, what sort of
personality type would you say this

is gonna be a good experience for you?

Joel Struthers: Typically, the Legion
looks for people with a bit of life skill.

So, early twenties, mid twenties.

Mm.

So you're not just, you know,
a knee-jerk reaction or you're

running away from something.

Right.

Right.

That life experience can be positive
and negative, but you're in that phase

as a, as a young man where you're
kind of learning from your errors and

you're, you kind of see that, listen,
I gotta get myself on the right path.

If not, things aren't gonna go well.

Which I think they like, because
then you're, you're open to

instruction and, and forming.

Right.

They're pretty good at, they've been
doing this for a long time so they

can, they can make a soldier out
of a certain type of individual.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, so to answer your question more
directly is I think it's just someone

that says, I wanna fucking try that.

Yeah.

Can you go, um, But what I do say to the,
the people do ask, I don't go into detail.

I just say, listen, make sure
you're, you're ready for this.

It's, it's more mental than
physical and know the language.

Mm-hmm.

, knowing French before you
show up is a huge benefit.

You don't have to be fluent, but
you have a good grasp at because

that is the biggest struggle
and that's the difference.

And I get into that in Seville
and um, you know, that was kind

of, cuz I would say 80% of the
people that reach out are American.

Um, so there's a lot of them and it's,
it's tough because up until recently,

uh, I think for their, their young men
and women who wanna join you can't have

any type of criminal record every year.

You know, so you might make stupid
mistake, you get a DUI when you're 18, 19,

whatever, as you know, happens to people.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean you're a bad person.

But now you can't even join your
own, your own military and they're

disillusioned and looking for a way out.

It worked for me.

Mm-hmm.

the pill was a good experience.

Or sorry, the lesion was
a good experience for me.

Um, but it's also time and place and luck.

And then what you bring to the
table and what you make of it.

That's the big thing.

Yes.

If you think you're gonna go over
there, you know, in a, in a month

you're gonna be jumping into Africa
to , you know, that's not the way it is.

It's, it's a tough go and
it's, and it's mental.

Um, you know, it's, first of all, you're
in a, a foreign country, a foreign army,

foreign language, food's different.

Everything's different.

It's old school.

The discipline is there.

You're not going out on the weekends.

Mm-hmm.

. You're not going back to your
girlfriend at, at Christmas.

Mm-hmm.

not for a while.

Yeah.

Um, and that weighs on people.

Um, and a lot of people in
the ranks and the legion, they

don't have much to go back to.

They're there for different reasons.

You're, you know, north American
that goes over, it's probably

easy to talk yourself into going
home where you have the good life.

You know what I mean?

It's, it's something that's,
uh, pertinent and I try to.

put across.

I don't wanna dissuade people, but I also
wanna say, Hey, be careful what you wish

for because it's, it's not necessarily
what you, what you think it is.

You know, you know,

Travis Bader: when you read through
different books of people who have

gone through, uh, elite schools, uh, I
mean, and Andy McNabb, what's his name?

Steven, uh,

Joel Struthers: what
whatever is Yeah, probably

Travis Bader: Bravo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bravo two Zero.

Immediate action.

All the rest.

And, uh, a lot of these guys come
from backgrounds that were, were

difficult, that were harder, that, um,
and, and it seems to be that's the,

um, uh, the type of person that the,
the Army or the Special Forces groups

would really kind of attract people
looking for discipline in their life.

A new way to, uh, to approach things,
to be something that they're, they're

lacking options outside of that.

So I should imagine if your toes are
really easy to touch the ground and, and

kind of walk on outta there mentally,
that would be, Yeah, it'd be tough to stay

in something that's gonna be difficult
for 'em, but if you're, if you got

nothing else to grasp onto, this is it.

Let's give it at all.

Yep.

Joel Struthers: No fair one.

Whereas I wasn't of that.

No, you weren't.

You know, I was, yeah.

Who knows?

I mean, I'm still trying
to figure myself out too.

So let's let's not go there.

That'd be, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

A difficult podcast.

But, um, yeah, who knows?

And that's, I think I had, it was
an off, A British officer reached

out at some point just talking.

He'd been in Afghanistan about the
same time period that I was there.

Uh, and he was talking about, he
had a, uh, young squad in his group

that had served in the Legion.

And he said he was quite a character,
got himself into a lot of trouble.

But when it came down to the shit
he was, he was the guy that he went,

he trusted the most, like he right.

He got the job done.

And I think, you know, , there's
peacetime, armies, wartime armies.

Mm-hmm.

, different types of people rise to the top.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and when shit gets tough, it's,
it's interesting the individuals and

the type of people that are actually
the ones that step up, you know?

Well, it's not necessarily always the
ones you think that would be Yeah.

The ones that

Travis Bader: step up.

Yeah.

Well it's the ones that maybe had
a little bit of assorted past.

Yeah.

And it's, it's unfortunate in a way
perhaps that, that there is that

criminal record barrier cuz of people
who are pushing their boundaries.

Oh.

Getting into trouble, challenging
themselves and others and coloring

outside the lines, so to speak,
can oftentimes be the best soldiers

cuz they can think outside the

Joel Struthers: box a hundred percent.

And I think that's why the
Legion has been successful.

They take people with
a bit of life skills.

Ah-huh . And then they're able to
shape them, give them that discipline

that they're potentially looking for.

A lot of times we get in trouble
cuz there's a lack of, you know,

guidelines and discipline and
we're trying to prove ourselves.

We're young, we've got all that adrenaline
in our testosterone in our system.

You know, Legion, you show up, they're
like okay, you can use that focus

and adrenaline but these are the the
guidelines and you will respect them

and you'll do this, you know, properly.

Travis Bader: What are some of
the myths cuz you say, you know,

dispelling some of the myths.

What are some of the more prevalent myths?

Joel Struthers: Um, well a lot of things.

Annoyed me.

And that was the big thing is when
the subject of I served in the French

royal angel comes up in a small
conversation, it's impossible to explain.

And that's not my, I'm not
good at small talk anyway.

And people would always have a
misconception, misconception story

that it's, you know, murders and stuff
that run away to France to join the

French Foreign Legion, which, right,
which, which in its inception was true.

They would take, you know, um, people
of that, uh, you know, background,

they would give them a choice to
go to prison or, or certain legion.

But it's changed.

The Legion is now a part
of the French military.

Mm.

Same rules and regulations.

Um, they don't, they take, you know,
I served with some pretty, pretty

damn good people, respectable people,
um, that I respect to this day and.

So it annoys me.

So I have a hard time.

I might come across short and it's like,
you know what, shut the fuck up, man.

Yeah.

Um, but that's not fair.

So that's repelled.

But that is the big misconception,
is the type of in individual

story that joins the Legion.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, I think in this day and age, it's
a young man that's looking to soldier

and for whatever reason he can't in
his own country for what, whatever.

Sure.

Whatever that may be.

There's not the options.

They don't have the military
they're looking for.

Mm-hmm.

, they're not active, or they have that
background where they're no longer able.

Um, well, that's what happened

Travis Bader: with you,

Joel Struthers: right?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I was exactly the, uh, the Legion
did me a big favor, and that's why,

you know, I put in the time and
effort to, um, to share that I have

a lot of respect for the Legion in
France, for what they did for me.

It worked well for me.

Mm-hmm.

. It's not something I'd like my
son to experience, for example.

Mm.

And I don't think it's for
everybody, but for me, for

whatever reason, it, it worked.

You needed it.

Yeah,

Travis Bader: definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you grew up military,
family, military backgrounds.

You were.

over here.

Reservist with the Correct.

Yep.

The West Asia.

Yeah.

For all Westminster Regiment
here in New Westminster.

And, um, said, I'm just, I don't see the
options over here that I do over there.

Joel Struthers: Exactly.

Essentially.

Exactly.

I was in Wayne Wright doing our battle
school and the Canadian military

was going through its restructuring
and the West east at that point,

were tasked with the, um, uh, p
and the next course, theoretically,

once there's a spot available,
would be a jump course in Edmonton.

And that's always something I was
interested in doing, was jumping.

Um, and I think it stems from
my grandfather, my dad's dad,

who was second wave, uh, Juno.

He had given me, uh, I think he was
a hundred first, uh, jump smock that

he traded with a, a guy so cool.

A D-day.

And I think my mom threw
it out, but come on.

She says, she says, no,

Travis Bader: but I, it's gone.

I still love

Joel Struthers: my mum, but
that's, that'll stick with me.

Who knows.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, I'm sure she didn't.

But anyway, I wore that thing.

. And I always wonder if that gave me
the, uh, that itch to be a, be a jumper.

But, um, you know, I watched all
the, the Vietnam War movie anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, I'm in Wayne Wright.

It kind of comes down the pipeline
that we're gonna be re-tasked to be

anti-tank tow, you know, and, uh, it just
happened that there was an NCO and one

of the other courses who had recently
come back from the Legion and he had

served five years with the rep, which
is the Airborne Regiment in the Legion.

Yeah.

And one of our master corporals that
was on the course, he was a westy,

but you know, they detached some of
the NCOs for the, for the course.

He said, Hey man, you know, if
you're, if you're itching to

jump, go to France, you can join.

And I was like, what?

I knew nothing about right
at, he's like most people.

So I, I looked into it.

Um, I had actually called the recruiter
across the board in Washington, I

think it was Marine Corps, um, and
asked, you know, and I was basically

told it would take a year, two years
to get the green card at that time.

Mm-hmm.

I have no American family,
so it would take a while.

And I was a young man.

You're impatient.

So I was like, yeah, I'm going to France.

And

Travis Bader: yeah.

That timeline's different

Joel Struthers: when you're young, right?

Oh yeah.

So I went over and uh,
and I spoke, that's right.

I wrote to the Legion, they sent me a
letter back with all the different, uh,

recruiting depos some of the information.

Um, and I was fortunate because my
dad, as we mentioned, he was a fighter

pilot in the Canadian Air Force.

And I grew up, you know, a big chunk
of my youth was in uh, Germany.

Yeah.

And the Canadian Forest base,
um, all the schools are French

immersion, so I took Right.

French immersion until grade eight.

That's

Travis Bader: a huge help.

Joel Struthers: Eh?

So I had, yeah, had a really good base.

So that was, that was a big part
of my, you know, I would assume

favorable experience in ages.

I had the language and it opens up
a lot of doors early on because if

you don't pick up the language, it's
not, uh, it's not a good experience.

Travis Bader: So you contact
them, they get back to you.

Are you sitting there thinking
like, what the hell am I doing?

Like when you're younger, that
timeframe, cuz there's a commitment

that you're gonna be having to give
them a, a certain portion of your life.

Five years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And five years, you were
how old at the time?

Joel Struthers: I was 20,
21 I believe when I was

Travis Bader: 21.

Yeah.

Okay.

So like another quarter of your
life from that date anyways, right?

Yep.

Joel Struthers: Um, now, . Yes.

Now my life was big.

Yeah.

The, I needed a, a change of direction.

Okay.

And something to focus on that
was a little more positive.

Um, so it was pretty much, I'm going,
for whatever reason, it just hit

a hit, a hit, hit a mark with me.

Um, I had seen the old pictures of,
uh, the predecessor to the rep, the be

jumping in, into China, you know, and,
uh, uh, MBM Fu and then in Algeria and

those, you know, black and white pictures.

The guys jumping out DC three s and stuff
was just, for me, it was like, You know,

that wasn't an option for me in Canada.

I gotta go.

And yeah, I didn't really
think too much of it.

Now, when I got over there and I
found the, um, the Legion, uh, depo

in, uh, Strasberg where I was gonna
sign up, I sat across from the, the

depo for an hour or two on the stairs.

There's a church I think, across the way,
and there's, you know, the big steps.

So I just sat there, kind of looking at
the door, reflecting on my, on my choices.

But at that point I had
already committed there.

I was in, in France, you're
there, and it was happening.

And so I rang the little

Travis Bader: butterflies in the stomach.

Joel Struthers: Oh, fuck.

It was a long time, I'm sure.

Yeah.

Um, I think the big thing for me was
if I was doing this, I didn't want to

be, I knew at the point, I think I'd
been told that, you know, typically

they take one in six or seven, depends
on, uh, but during my time period,

that's when the iron wall had come down.

Mm-hmm.

on the iron curtain.

So there was an influx of Eastern
blockers so they could pick and choose.

So the odds of getting in
were, were, were tough.

Right.

Because they only can take certain amount
and they have, you know, , the pick of

the crop, not the crop, but they have
the ability to pick and choose, um,

based on the criteria they look for.

So my fear, to be honest with
you, was that I would have to

come home saying I didn't even get
into the French foreign Legion.

Yo.

Yeah.

I hate to say it, but yeah.

And I didn't, I didn't necessarily
know how tough it would be to get

in, but I hadn't a, I didn't have
a plan B for me that was, I'm

going there, I want a soldier as a
young man, I wanna do it for real.

And uh, you know, hopefully touch
wood, it, it worked and it did.

Lovely.

Travis Bader: So you have pictures
of the rep and the be and this idea

of what the legion's gonna be like,
and you've had a little bit of an

opportunity to correspond with them.

Yep.

But all up into that point,
nothing was truly real.

They were just the thoughts of what
you had in your head of what it's gonna

be like or what others have told you.

When did things really
become real for you in the

Joel Struthers: legion sense?

Um, well I had read
Legionnaire by Simon Murray.

Yes.

That was a big, from his time
during the, uh, the war in Algeria.

That was a big, a big one for me.

I liked the, I liked the story.

Um, . So I had my limited
interaction with Allegion.

I knew I needed to do something.

Yeah.

Um, so I, I went and once that door
opened up and that big corporal chef

asked for my passport and said, you
wanna join ? I went in and they showed

me, uh, they put in a VHS cassette.

This is all old, back in the day.

This was 90, when did I go over 94?

Okay.

Um, they put in all, all these
cassettes with the different languages.

So we put in English cassette and
it showed, luckily to me, for me, it

started off with the, the legion or
the rep, sorry, jumping uh, out of

the Trans ELs and C one 30 and Calvin.

Um, so it just, right
there I was like, I'm sold.

This is a good sign.

Yeah.

This is, uh, um, and really at that
point they could have showed me anything.

I mean, I was kind of, I was in, you know.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what
they showed you and then.

From there, it was about a month
before I actually went off to basic.

There's a whole f from there.

It's like from Strassburg, there's a,
they do a, a quick recruitment where

they, you know, you go to a, a medical,
uh, it's a military medical facility.

They do a quick uh, um, you know,
survey, whatever you wanna call medical.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, they pick and choose from there.

Uh, and then you're sent down to
Obeying, which is the Allegiance

headquarters, the Premierer.

Um, and there you're in like
a re a recruitment area and

you spend typically a month.

And there they, they go through all the
different, uh, phases and criteria and

pick and choose, and then off you go to
Costell, which is the catch hammerer,

and that's their training regiment.

Okay.

Not far from Tolu.

Where they build the Airbus and
basic training is four months.

Okay.

So the first, first month there's
50 of you and you're at a farm.

And it's basically these old,
there's four, uh, training

companies in the regiment.

And each training company, they bought
these, uh, basically a farm with an old

farmhouse rebuilt them for, for barracks.

Yeah.

And you go there and your first month
is basically just learning the, what it

is to be a Legionnaire, the discipline.

How they go about doing things.

Yeah.

Their way of doing business,
learning the language and the

songs, because they're big on songs.

Big on the songs.

But you know, in a, in in
Appell I get on it, I do shit

on it, but yeah, I respect it.

Yeah.

And it's done for a reason
and it's, it's effective.

Um, and it's, yeah,
it's, it's, it's smart.

But yeah, for that first month it's tough
and that really weeds out, um, yeah, not

the week per se, but the people that are
not mentally there for the right reasons.

And then at the end of basic, you're given
a chance to go back to the civilian life.

So you can either do your five years Yeah.

Or get out.

But once you commit, you're
theoretically you're in stunt for five.

Um, and I think in our group there
was a dozen that decided to go back.

Okay.

And, uh, depending on where you
finish and basic, you can pick

and choose where you want to go.

Um, the different regiments.

Um, so I was fortunate, finished
well, and then I chose the rep and.

Wow.

That's where, that's where I

Travis Bader: went.

So you spent your time, people,
if they really want to get into

the ins and outs or that's like,
that's in your book Appell.

Yep.

And, uh, great book by the way.

Really enjoyed that for sure.

Um, you do your time with the
French Foreign Legion and you

say, okay, I got these skills.

Now how can I apply this
in the civilian market?

And started looking at the,
being a private military

Joel Struthers: contractor.

Yeah.

Uh, so I get to the rep, I do basically
a year with the first company, which

is, uh, they specialize in fibia, uh,
if I didn't built up areas mm-hmm.

. And then I did selection further the
gcp, which is similar to the, uh, the

British or the, the Canadian Pathfinders.

Yep.

But they have a second role where
they support the French operations.

Yep.

Special command.

Um, so they can work as pathfinders
for the regiment or as a tier

two group for the, for the cuss.

Um, so I did selection for that.

and that was, uh, 10 Man Halo team.

Okay.

Um, so I worked, I was fortunate in that,
and I'll get to your, your question.

Yeah, yeah.

The reason for this is, you know,
it was small 10 man team, so it'd be

an officer, senior NCOs and junior
ranks, and you had to be a minimal,

uh, rank of corporal to be in the gcp.

Yeah.

But we were treated differently.

It was more of a, a team environment.

The hierarchy was there, the
discipline was there, but it

was a little, little looser.

Yeah.

And a lot of times we were
away from the regiment and the

legion, so we could relax a bit.

It wasn't quite as, um, discipline,
but as long as we were doing our jobs,

maintaining, you know, a proper level
of professionalism and, and fitness, all

that kind of stuff, there's no issue.

Maybe start to fuck up.

Obviously.

They'll, they'll be all over that.

Yeah, they would.

But so I was working, we were
always in the back of helicopters,

the super pumas, super falo,
um, And I was 29 at this point.

So it was kind of the, the
phase of my career in Legion.

Whereas I would have to decide if I
wanted to go NCO and do the 15 years,

which allows for a, a small pension or,
and this was just for myself, I'm 29.

Is this something I want to do for the
rest of my life for those 15 years or

a, a new career, but I need to get on
now at 29 you're kind of at that cusp.

You are.

Yeah.

And then being in those helicopters
and watching the pilots and stuff,

that was something I was interested in.

Um, and uh, in fact my father
had mentioned, you know, actually

before the Legion, hey, would
you wanna do, do helicopters?

But at that point in life, I was
not ready for that kind of, yeah,

I need to do something else.

So I.

Actually had my interview with,
uh, Vancouver Island Helicopters

Training School from the, um, the
phone booth in the regiments or in

our company's, uh, parade Square.

Very cool.

So I remember Dave was his name.

He was the chief or the,
uh, the main training pilot.

And he was like, where
are you calling from?

I was like, oh, I'm calling from the, uh,
parade Square from the, uh, dium rep in

Calvin Corco with French Foreign Legion.

And there was a, a discernible pause, you
know, like what ? Anyway, so that for me

was the, um, the Exodus, um, was to start
a new, a new career, but two twofold.

Um, I felt bad.

Um, you know, the rep had given a lot
of, um, given me a good opportunity,

put in the time and effort.

You know, I'm now with the gcp, so I'm,
you know, I've done my commander course,

I've done my halo free fall course.

Um, you know, I'm, I'm still fairly new
and here I'm pulling the pin, right?

And.

My captain at the time, um, who's
general now, general Damu, um,

you know, kind of gave me a hard
time for everybody he understood.

Sure.

Um, and I think as a Canadian, they
understood that, you know, my situation's

a bit different and I had always come to
Legion, not to leave Canada, but just to

experience something different elsewhere.

Right.

And I always felt like, you know, I was
a guest in, in the French Army in France.

I would always go home.

I'm Canadian at the end of the day
and I never, I had the opportunity

and the option to go and get my
French passport, but I never did.

Um, you know, I was a Canadian.

Um, so Interesting.

Yeah.

So for me that was, you know, I felt.

I dunno what the word is.

Um, but I felt bad leaving.

But the draw was, it was time to go.

And unfortunately, um, you know,
this is pre, pre nine 11, right?

So we were, Francis is active, um, but
it wasn't Iraq, Afghanistan type active.

Right.

Um, so you're kind of looking at
your, what you've experienced.

I did six years at this point.

Um, and it, it's somewhat repetitive.

You look at your, your peers, your
senior NCOs, you see their career

path and what, what they're doing.

Is that something you
necessarily want to do?

Um, and that's no knock on them.

No respect, cuz that's,
that's tough, you know?

But your ambitions are different.

I had some different ideas and
so I, so I came, I came home.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: You come back
and you say helicopters.

That's the thing for me.

I wanna learn how to fly
a helicopter from one.

People will view what you were doing
before as sort of a high level ambition.

Mm.

Helicopter flying is a high level
of ambition in a few different

ways, uh, for, for most people.

Yeah.

What, what was, what
was that like to square?

Joel Struthers: Um, it was tough.

There was, it was a tough
transition, to be honest with you.

It's, I think that's something I
didn't really realize till later on.

Um, but I was in Victoria at the, the
airport there in, on the island, uh,

where the VH had its training school, uh,
within a couple months of getting out.

So there was that real, you know, here
I am a city now, you know, it was going

from a life of his Legionnaire living
in Garrison rules and regulations.

Pretty, pretty strict and uniform, you
know, to now these newfound freedoms.

So focus was tough.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and I, I struggled with
helicopters at the beginning.

I didn't, we were initially
training these R 20 twos, which

is this little dinky helicopters.

Okay.

Like there's no room for one person
there, let alone you and your instructor.

Yeah.

Um, and it was just, Yeah, I, I,
I didn't trust them and everything

was kind of new, so it, I was, I
was not a, a natural if that Okay.

That sounds right.

Yeah.

But I, but I got, I got
through it, I got the job done.

Uh, um, I knew nothing about
the, the commercial helicopter

industry in Canada at all.

Yeah.

All I knew was that I wanted
to give this, give this a shot.

So I, um, I started working for a company
up, uh, in Fort Nelson, Northern bc, oil

and gas type stuff, learning my trade.

And, uh, yeah, it was, uh,
it was challenging, but, you

know, um, also enjoyable.

Mm-hmm.

, um, and Yeah, no regrets.

And from there, you know, my, my
career just continued on, but as a

low time pilot in Canada, uh, the
winners are, are sparse for work.

There's not a lot of work.

There's hell skiing and some, some stuff.

Right.

But, so typically you're kind
of, you know, you're doing the

summer months and then you're
off for the, uh, for the winter.

Mm-hmm.

. And that's where I kind of started to look
into the, uh, the overseas type stuff.

Right.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: So how does,
how does that develop?

Because there's, I know there's a certain
allure to the overseas type stuff Yeah.

To outsiders often.

And they say, look it,
I've got this skills.

I've, I've been to the, I've
got some basic training.

I've been, um, trained to be a soldier.

I can use this.

There's some good money in certain ways.

Um, h how did, how did you kind of decide.

How did that transition happen for you?

Did you have somebody else that
says, Hey look, come on over here.

This is what you gotta do.

Well,

Joel Struthers: and that's
Seville that's brought to it.

It's basically once I leave the Legion
and it gets into this, and again,

careful what you wish for, right?

Yeah.

Um, so I had a couple friends that had
gotten out prior to me, uh, including

Keith, who was the partner in Raven Hill.

We'll get into that.

Yeah.

And they were working for, um, back in the
day there was two primary security firms

outta London, uh, control Risk group.

Jg.

Yeah.

And, and Armor Group were kind of
the two main, and they would hire X

Legionnaires, um, Anglophones that
had the, the French language for

their contracts in Africa mm-hmm.

With their clients, which was
predominantly exploration, oil

and gas, that type type of stuff.

So they liked the Legionnaires
cause we had that bilingual ability

and we were, you know, familiar
with the African continent.

Um, so I got out, I'm
flying winners coming.

, you're not paid anything.

Right.

As a low time pilot.

Um, just enough to survive.

And, uh, so yeah, I threw my, um,
resume together and, and sent them

both off to CRG and Arbor Group.

And a long story Short
Armor Group took me on.

Yep.

Um, and I started almost
right away in Algeria.

So North Africa, um, armor Group
had, uh, a relationship with Kellogg

Braner Root, which at that point in
time was a part of Hall Burton Oil.

Mm.

Um, and they were drilling, uh, in the
Sahara for natural gas and, and oil.

So Armor Group would provide, uh, KBR
r Hall Burton with oil seas, which

were operations liaison coordinators.

Yeah.

And we would be on the rigs,
which were secured by the Algerian

police or Army cuz there was a
terrorism issue in, in Algeria.

Hmm.

Um, and we would just be the,
uh, the liaison between the.

, the protect, the, the army or
the, or the police and the client.

So anything for road moves,
you know, just what have you.

Hmm.

So I basically just sat on a, an oil
rig for three months and the money was,

was good, um, which helped the cause.

Yes.

And then, uh, you know, I'd go back
to the, uh, back to Canada, well, back

to, for the flying in the summers.

Um, and that relationship remained
with Armor Group for, I did that for a

couple years, Algeria, in fact, I wrote
a pill on the rig my first, first tour.

I sat there for three months.

And when I got out from the Legion, my
grandfather who had retired as a, um,

a brigadier general, um, dso mm-hmm.

, um, was doing his degree at uic, at, I
think he was get on, I think he was 86.

But anyway, yeah, he was doing his
degree and he was writing his, um,

his thesis, whatever, and he hadn't.

Kept the dire during in the war,
which he regretted and he was trying

to piece together cuz it, right.

He had written, uh, it's
called, uh, amateur Soldier.

Um, and uh, so he said to me, he
said, Joel, you know, if you didn't

keep a a journal, I suggest you write
everything down now, because if not,

you were regretted down the road.

Good advice.

Yeah, no doubt.

Yeah.

Um, smart man, obviously.

Yeah.

Um, so I, I took his, his advice and I
just basically put together, you know, I

sat on the radio, I had nothing but time.

I think it was, you know, I dunno,
80,000 words, just zero respect

for the, uh, English language.

Not that I could have, but it
was like all in caps, a lot of

explanation Marks, , and that, that
sat for 10 years just on a Word doc.

Um, but it was there and that was the
really, that's where the book came from.

Okay.

And over time with, with work life
and just, uh, certain things, I was

like, you know what, maybe, maybe
there's something in that, in that.

We're Doc and I worked
on that, created Apel.

But anyway, so with with
Armor Group, um, I do that.

And then, uh, they were, when Iraq
kicked off Ke Brown route at that

point had split Cuz j Jch, you know,
the Dick Cheney history, whatever.

Yep, yep.

Hall Burton and KBR R Split and KBR were
awarded the log cap, uh, contract by the,

uh, um, American, uh, what do you call it?

The, um, what's the military,
what's the terminology for anyway,

um, to build all the bases.

Okay.

So, um, so early on, uh, armor Group sent
over, there's a group of us, uh, there's

two, uh, one next, the lead guys was,
one was sas, um, the other one was Depp.

There's an SPS guy on there.

There's an Ozzie SAS guy, two r
and p, which is the British Royal

Military Police that were, um, were.

PSD and they had worked with, uh,
the SAS in, uh, in Ireland and

then myself, the Lone Legionnaire.

And, uh, we were in Baghdad early, it was
2003, so it had been only a couple months

since the Americans enrolled into Baghdad.

And, um, the idea was to train vetted
in bracket Iraqis on P S D and then

we would work with them so that when,
uh, KBR R execs came in the country,

we would be there to pick them up
at the airport and then move them

to these different installations
that they were going to mm-hmm.

Um, so this was Earl.

So that was my first kind of kick of
the kack in, uh, in Iraq, come back

to flying and then come back the next
winter and things in racket picked up.

Um, so then I did some low
profile stuff with the, the

Iraqis and yeah, so that was the.

Back and forth, um, flying the
overseas stuff, which was tough.

Um, yeah, I'd think so.

It, uh, cuz as a low time pilot, you're
trying to learn your trade and, you know,

you, you have a good summer, you get your
hands and feet, you start to pick it up,

and then you're gone and you, you're on
a whole different level and you come back

and it's, yeah, it was, it was stressful.

You gotta learn it again.

Yeah.

And then you're, you know, as I got
a little more experience and I'm

on fire, so there was no room for,
it's kinda like you're just thrown

into the, into the fire, right?

Mm-hmm.

, you're on a fire, you're slinging
and all that kind of stuff.

And yeah, I didn't like that.

And that's what's one thing I didn't
like about flying early on was I didn't

like that you couldn't do it full-time.

Um Right.

Which I'm unfortunate now I can, but
early on it was a challenge and I think

that's why, you know, um, not to go off
on a tangent, but becoming a commercial

helicopter Canada is, is challenging.

A lot of people quit for that reason.

Yeah.

It's, it's tough.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I would think so.

Yeah.

And you seem like a real all or
nothing sort of personality type.

Like if you're gonna get into
it, you're gonna give it 110%.

Yeah, exactly.

And then to be forced
off of it for a while.

Yeah.

And have to get back in.

It's like, oh, come on.

I mean, I suck.

That's right.

I was just doing this and I
was doing okay and now Yeah.

Joel Struthers: I still do.

I I shit you not, so the company I
worked for was out of uh, um, spring Bank

Airport, which is outside of Calgary.

Yeah.

And, you know, I'd come back and they'd
fly me in, you know, red Eye into Calgary.

I'd go to the hangar, do some groundwork,
and I'd do a training flight, and

then I'd have my check flight with
Transport Canada probably the same day.

And it was just like a, yeah.

You know.

Information overload,
shock into the mouth.

You know, if , you know, can
I still hover her doing it?

And I st I sh you know, whenever
I fly into Calgary, I think I

still get anxiety from really
just a, it's like a flash attack.

That's interesting.

Acting like, holy shit, you know?

That's interesting.

Yeah.

Anyway, it all worked
out for, for the good.

Travis Bader: It does.

Yep.

How those helicopters, I tell you.

So I've, I've flown a few planes.

Yep.

Basic understanding and you know, buddy
of mine's got me up in, uh, his helicopter

and he looks over is like, take control.

So I'm like, okay, . It's like holy crow.

Are those things ever touchy?

I mean like, you just think
about it and they move.

Right?

Yeah.

I wasn't expecting that.

That's, that's

Joel Struthers: the first
mistake is thinking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

we over, we overthink it, but yeah.

I mean they, you can te Yeah, they're,
once it's like riding a bike, you know,

you remember when you were a kid up first.

It's like what?

And then once you get it,
you don't think about it.

It, uh, but there is skill fade for sure.

I mean that's the easy
part when it comes to Yeah.

The, the finer precision stuff.

Um, it's, yeah.

You need to be on it for sure.

Travis Bader: Well, so, okay, so
Appell, you've got a book basically

roughed out in the works in your
kind of memoirs diary kind of format.

Yep.

, but you didn't have that with Seville.

You approached Seil.

I, I'm imagining Yes.

No, true.

Yeah.

You approached totally different
Seville as I'm going to write a book.

Yeah.

As opposed, I've got
this platform, I can kind

Joel Struthers: of, so once, so yeah.

Word doc with Apel on it.

Um, 10 years passes, life's changed,
you know, with circumstances and,

and stuff I found interesting.

And then there was never a
book that came out that was a

positive portrayal of Legionnaire.

Mm-hmm.

Which annoyed me.

Um, typically the guys that did write
about their experience in Legion are

deserters and their story supports
their narrative, but at the end of

the day, they're quitters, you know?

Yeah.

And that kind of stems from the,
the three things that I needed.

So if I put this out, I wanted
the Legion to a, to approve its

narrative in the before, because
then, you know, it's legit.

You're getting a, yeah.

And I think to this day, um, Appell is
the only, you know, um, story of its kind

that's, you know, has Allegion's approval
and a forward from an acting general.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

I, I think so.

Yeah.

I'm, that's really cool.

Yeah.

I take that on the, on
the, on the chest side one.

But anyway, so.

I just said, okay, maybe it's on me.

I need to share the story perhaps.

Mm-hmm.

, you know.

Um, so then I worked on it
with a friend, um, for a while.

And then I hired a, um, and the friend
was a, an ex Legionnaire too, so I wanted

him to go through and kind of look us
up because, you know, I get stuff wrong.

And as I said, I, a lot of, when
I did initially put it down,

it's just all based on memory.

Um, so we worked on that.

And then when I hit my limit, I
hired a, a professional editor.

Mm-hmm.

Um, which is challenging
because they would know nothing

about the subject matter.

So you spend most of your
time just asking questions.

Right.

Your questions, so you get nowhere
until finally they kind of understand

and get a grasping of the story.

But then the big thing for me was that,
and I, I get that a lot of you read a

lot of these in this genre in particular,
They use a lot of ghost writers, right?

So it's not necessarily
their voice, right?

And some of the wording you used or
some of the stuff you think, oh, really

doesn't sound like a soldier to me.

It's a right, I'm not no
judgment, but typically sometimes

you, you know, you lose that.

So the deal with my editor was,
listen, you can't change my words.

You can maybe add a comma or say, Hey,
let's, right, you know, let's, let's think

about, you gotta add something here, Joel.

You can't.

And I remember she said that to me early
on, you can't be a sociopath and tell

a story . Cause you know, well, I guess
could, you could, but, you know, like, I'm

more introvert so I'm like, you know, my
individual, this was like, no, you gotta,

you gotta tell us a bit about yourself so
that the, the readers, and as I said, I'm

not Ari, so I knew nothing about that.

So I learned a lot in writing Appell.

Right.

Just the process.

Um, so for Seville, uh, it was different.

I went back to France
last November, um, and.

The idea wa I was, you know,
it's, it was for some family

research that that's in the book.

Yeah.

Um, and I met up with some friends
from the Legion that are in Appelle.

Um, and during that visit, a
story kind of came together.

Mm-hmm.

and I was like, and some people,
you know, since Appelle, cuz I make

reference to my, my, you know, going
Iraq, Afghanistan, post, uh, right.

Postell and people say, Hey, you
should write, you know, you should

consider a, a follow up book.

And I never have.

Um, cause I didn't think there
was anything to share there.

But that, that during this trip, it
seemed like, you know, this would

be actually a good, there were some
things that happened and, uh, I was

just, yeah, there's a story there.

So when I came home, I shut myself
down in my house for like three months.

Not totally.

But I just, yeah.

Just wrote same, same, same way.

Just verbal, you know?

Yeah.

Diarrhea.

No respect for anything.

Anything.

And then, And the same thing I did
with Appell is I would share the

early drafts with family and friends.

Hmm.

And I would say, you know, if, if you
were willing, I'd appreciate, have a

read and tell me if it has potential.

Like, are you interested in
the, the core of the story?

Mm-hmm.

. . If yes, I'll continue her.

If you know it's boring, well
then I'll, I'll shut her down.

You know?

So I did the same thing with Seville.

Um, so my dad's always been a huge help
on that, uh, cuz I trust his voice.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I and, uh, friends and family,
um, and I tried to, send it to

different people that would typically
read different type of stuff.

So you get a right, a wide range
of, because when you tell a

story you can't please everybody.

You never will.

And then, you know, if you get your
demographic that's former military

or or into that genre, they kind
of need something different than

someone that's only interested.

You know, typically doesn't read
that they don't want to get dumbed

or I can't dumb it down too much
to right to ruin it for one group.

But at the same time I gotta
explain some things for the others.

Right?

So you gotta find that nice middle ground.

So I use that to gauge.

Um, and then I just, you know,
focus on spots, say, Hey, I like

that, you gotta tell me more here.

So within three months I had
that story, um, pretty much done.

And then same thing, I hired two
different editors that had, um, their

strengths and certain things to help
me get it to where it had to be.

And the big one on that
is cuz editors cost money.

Yeah.

So time is money.

Yeah.

Um, I had learnt cuz Wilfred
Laurie, uh, published Apel.

So I knew nothing obviously about the
publishing world and I was fortunate

that, I think it was through, it was a
friend of my father's who had, uh, flown

1 1 0 4 s with him and he worked at rmc.

Um, and he heard from my dad that I
was working on, he said, Hey, you know,

do you mind asking Joel if, if, uh, if
I could read his, uh, his manuscript?

He had, uh, he had actually published
a couple books, um, about, uh, I

think it was the Canadian, um, fighter
Piloter in the Second World War.

Okay.

Flyboy.

Anyway.

Yeah.

Um, nice man.

Anyway, he read it and he said, you know,
Joel, I think he got something here.

Do you mind if I show it
to my, to my publisher?

So I had never, I didn't shop out
or look, I knew nothing about.

Oh, that's awesome.

Um, and they actually put me in touch
with, they said, you know, I think

Wilford Laurie would like this and
they did, but they, how it works

is so Wilford Laurie took it on.

Um, , they worked on it for a year.

Cuz they, they do their stuff that's
beyond my, you know, like Sure.

The tents and all the, all
the stuff that goes with it.

Yeah.

And, um, but basically you sign over
your story to them so they own copyright.

Um Okay.

And which is fine.

Yeah.

Like it didn't, it didn't matter to me.

They give you, you know, the
percentage that you get as, as

the author if there's any sales.

That was fine.

This book was never about money.

What

Travis Bader: happens
when the movie's made?

Joel Struthers: It's a little
more, I think it's 50 50.

Okay.

But yeah, I can't say fair enough.

But anyway, but you know what I mean,
that wasn't, but I, I learned a lot.

Um, and then the onus is on
the author to market that book.

Once it's published, it's you,
the author that's gotta be

really gotta get out there.

Yeah.

I mean if it's, it's,
you know, I'm not Yeah.

Is what it is.

It's not Harry Potter.

You don't have, you know what I mean?

Like this is a different . Yes.

Yep.

So I have to get onto the Jockos.

Yep.

This type of thing, you know, podcast,
get on social media, which pre-book, I

didn't have a Facebook, I had nothing.

So I had to learn.

Navigate that war.

Um, learning how to put yourself out
there and, and try to, you know, draw

a attention to your, to your story.

Well, it's tough.

It's, uh,

Travis Bader: that's really difficult
that it is, that that's a tightrope

because you don't want to talk
about things that would, um, spoil

the plot in the book, so to speak.

Yeah.

You don't want to do things that
are gonna be offside for the legion.

Yeah.

Um, you're, you've got all these different
goals in mind, but you still want to

be able to promote it out there and
you don't wanna do it in some flashy

way where it's, uh, gonna be looked at.

Um, yeah.

Joel Struthers: Like ego,
like, oh, look at this guy.

Right.

Here's a story about me.

Which, you know, it is, but it's
not, it could be any legion.

But yeah.

So I, I struggled with that, but I
learned, and I learned a lot with Apel.

And then when Sevelle came up, um, you
know, I had actually, I sent an early

draft to a Canadian, uh, publisher
out east that, uh, deals in this

genre more, more as a litmus test.

Yeah.

To see And, uh, they, they, they were
interested in wanting take it on.

And I had initially
said, well, what about.

You know, partnership.

I'm not gonna give, cuz in Seville,
I obviously begin the book with

the last paragraph from Appell.

Mm-hmm.

, I had to ask Wil for lawyer for
approval to use, you know what I mean?

Which is weird, which is fine.

They were, they were great about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And all the, you know, respect.

But, uh, it was just weird that I
had to ask someone else approval

to use my lawyer, you know?

Yeah, I know.

But, um, my business part at Raven Hill,
Keith, we said, well, why don't we,

you know, things have changed a lot.

You have that first book that
was out by a reputable publisher.

It's, it's done well.

Yeah.

Why don't we self-publish,
um, which you can in this day

and age to a certain extent.

Mm-hmm.

. And so I created for Appell, I
had created a non-profit called

Legion Engineered where Okay.

My small percentage of, um,
author proceeds would go to that.

So it wasn't about me.

So what I did is I just,
we created, we made that a.

A not-for-profit, incorporation, whatever.

And that was the, the publisher Le
Projects, which is Legion Engineered.

And so we, we went through the effort
and we said, okay, we'll do this ourself.

So, but there's a cost incurred, right?

Right.

So, right.

There's not a lot of money in books
anyway, so it, it's gonna be how much

you gonna spend, what's the objective?

So we had a number in mind.

Seville is a bit shorter than Appelle.

Um, it's probably rougher.

It's a little more edgier.

Um, it's different.

I, I, I like it per se.

I mean, Appelle was educational.

It was a little, you know, this
one's a little more, um, yeah.

What harder as in Yeah,
it's, I mean, so Postell.

Seville, I do the flying, you know, I'm
newly married, young family doing the

Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria kinda stuff.

It has, its, its challenges and
yes, it probably, you know, cost

me a marriage to a certain extent.

Um, the transition back
and forth wasn't easy.

That's life, you know?

I mean, there's people out there
that have a lot, lot harder mm-hmm.

. Um, but I also got to see,
you know, the war and terror.

I saw, you know, the Americans, the
Brits, all these different countries

out there slogging away going at it.

Where I was, I was, I was a part of
it, but I wasn't in the frontline

drown range with these guys.

And as a soldier who, you know, had done
my time in the Legion, and unfortunately

I didn't really have, you know, I
saw combat, but not at the level that

these guys were and girls were seeing.

It was, it was an eye-opener.

It was good.

Um, so I wanted, I felt maybe I
could share, share that, um, that

respect, but also that experience.

So, and it's grittier.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

And I really like, yeah.

It's, it's, yeah.

The realness that you get out of it,
I mean, did you see the difference?

Joel Struthers: Did you
feel the, the difference?

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Oh, definitely.

That's good.

Yeah.

Cuz

Travis Bader: it's, and I
like the blemishes, right?

Yeah.

Like you're okay talking about the,
the areas that other people with more

ego might, might have a difficult time.

Yeah.

Joel Struthers: Talking about fair one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, and that's, and that's something
I said to, to my, um, to editors is

I can't, let's not change the past.

So I might write something down in
the regret and say, eh, because you

can easily change things, right?

Totally.

Here you're younger and
you're, you're an idiot.

It's easy.

Anyway, so , that was a big one.

And then when you pull the trigger it
sent, and anyway, so we decided to do

ourselves, um, the audio book, which
I think that was a big one for me.

Um, so Wilford Laier, they
went the audiobook, uh, route.

Yeah.

In the, one of the first three
books that they did was, was appell.

Mm-hmm.

. And when they mentioned that to me,
I said, that's, you know, it's cool.

But I think typically people
like to hear the author.

Right.

Which you

Travis Bader: did in Seville.

Yeah.

So,

,
Joel Struthers: they didn't, um,
they went with a professional company

that has professional narrators.

Mm-hmm.

. And I had, I had respectfully asked 'em.

I said, listen, well if you
go that route, that's fine.

Um, obviously it's prerogative.

You can do what you wish, please
avoid using a French Canadian

narrator for the French . And that's
not, no, that, that makes sense.

But it's just because Legion French is not
kibble different French, different, it's

a different sound, different twang to it.

And unfortunately they went, they
went with a gentleman who, you

know, this is no bang on him or
Judge, he did an excellent job.

He reached out a couple times.

In fact, I think he listened to
Jocko to get a sense of my tone

and, and all that kind of stuff.

And he's anglophone uh, Francophone.

So his English is his
acting like it doesn't Yeah.

But when he says the, like the
rep, it's got that Quebec ah, yes.

Twang.

Um, which, hard to get rid of that.

Yeah.

Hopefully he doesn't hear this
cuz it's, it's not his fault.

And I respect he did a great job, but
it's just not, it's not Legion French.

Right.

So, Whatever that's,
they did what they did.

But for Seville, that's what we,
we said I would obviously do it.

So we invested and I think, I don't
know, I think it listens better than

Reads and I typically write that way.

I mean, it's just the voice in my head.

Travis Bader: So, so, so I actually,
I listened to it cuz I was, uh,

in airports on flights, so just
back and forth from Halifax there.

And so that was, uh, and I've taken
notes on my phone as I'm going through.

I got a whole ton of notes here too.

Oh, okay.

Yep.

But, uh, I, I really enjoyed that
and having done voiceover work in

the past for courses, I could only
imagine the amount of retakes and time.

And dude, were you doing i'll into

Joel Struthers: yourself
or So, so here we go.

So I, I found a studio in Vancouver
that does that type of thing.

Um, and, uh, I said to them the book's,
you know, 60 plus thousand words.

Yeah.

Typically, how long would
that take to, to record?

So they came back with a quote.

Yeah.

So I went in and blew that
fucking quote outta the water

Um, but.

. What was interesting is
we made some mistakes.

I mean, obviously publishers know what
they're doing and there's a reason why

they exist and they do it, and us doing
it ourselves, you know, we made some

mistakes and, um, so in fact the, the
producer made a couple b reels where

I'm reading and then I hit a typo.

I'm like, at this point
it's already, yeah.

We had, uh, , we actually
released the wrong, like when the

actual paperback book went Yeah.

Live.

We were supposed to do a
test print and there was some

switch ology area on our part.

Yeah.

And we went live and Oops.

So yeah, handful of books went out
that weren't the actual edited anyway,

Right.

That's love it.

We're not, yeah.

So, so I'm reading, so
I'm in the studio reading.

And then I'd run into these typos
and I'd be like, mid-sentence,

I'd be like, what the fuck?

? You know, so he made a B reel
where I'm talking, then I

would lose my shit, you know?

Or , you talk too fast, you
mumble, you say a word wrong.

So he would, you know, say, okay, stop.

Let's, let's do this.

So anyway, we basically doubled
the budget on the, uh, so we're

gonna, it's so easy to do.

We're gonna have to sell a lot of
audio books to, to recover that one.

But hey, well the audio

Travis Bader: book is awesome.

I appreciate that.

Let's

Joel Struthers: just say that.

Yeah.

I

Travis Bader: was happy
with the end result.

Yeah, no, it was really good.

Yeah.

Little things I found like how you're
sitting in a chair will change the

inflection of how it comes across
words that I thought I said properly.

Yeah.

They're like, it's firearms, not firearms.

.
Joel Struthers: Yeah.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

And I'm a, a mumbler by trade.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, the big focus.

Yeah, you're right.

It's, it's a lot.

And there's a reason why
they use professionals.

Yeah.

And the comeback, it makes sense
why Wilfred Laurie did that cuz

sure it'd be cost effective.

You know, it gets done
fairly fast and properly.

He's, he's drilled, you know,
he knows what he's doing.

It's not me making him walk,
move , but whatever you live and

learn and I'm happy with him results.

So it's, I'm, I'm glad you

Travis Bader: enjoyed it.

That's cool, man.

It's really good.

Yeah.

You know what, I'm gonna look at
a couple of things that I wrote

down as it went through here.

One of them, okay.

Joel Struthers: So I think you get
the sense of humor too, easier.

I mean, it's,

Travis Bader: you do because
you put your inflection

Joel Struthers: on it.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah, exactly.

Whereas on paper it's like,
is he serious or, yeah.

Yeah, because I am, you know, I
do, humor is a big part of my,

I might be dry and, but yeah.

If people don't pick up on it,
, I've ruined a lot of relat early

relationships with, uh, girls on
text because they don't get my humor.

Well, that's, they think, you know what,

Travis Bader: yeah.

that's why a moticon are,
how would you say that?

Born, I think, like I said,
that and there's a smiley face

because it's supposed to be funny.

Right.

And Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You just, you, you tend to lose
that unless you're really good at

the written word of which I'm not.

So same.

You really need to be able to have that.

Yep.

Non-verbal.

Let's, this is why doing podcasts
in person is so much better.

Yeah.

A

Joel Struthers: hundred percent agreed.

Yeah.

The para verbal.

Yeah.

So anyway, so yeah, the second
book was totally different.

Um, but at least I had the lessons learned
and experience from the first to draw

from, and it was probably as a result
quicker and, you know, on our terms.

So we'll

Travis Bader: see.

Well, I, I took a few notes as I was
going through there and one of them

that I, uh, stuck out was, uh, George
Albert, Raven Hill, between Yes, sir.

Cross.

Yeah.

Something about six Iron Shillings.

Yeah.

Um, yep.

. Yeah.

He was the, and he was like,
Silvercore is named after my

grandfather, silver Armeneau.

My other grandfather, Cornelius
Bader, Silver Core put 'em together.

Very cool.

Yep.

You've got a relation here Yes.

To George Raven Hill, which
you've named your company after,

Joel Struthers: correct?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He, um, Raven Hill on my mom's side.

Uh, brave man.

Um, Bo War, first World War, uh, won
the vc, um, you know, survived, which

is, you know, wasn't posthumous.

So that and those, and back in the
day, if you're given a, a VC and

you're survived, it's gotta be.

Yeah.

Legit.

Um, but, you know, he went on to
serve in the First World War, got

thrown into a, a, like a penal
regiment for disciplinary issues.

and then he lived in Birmingham.

Uh, him and his wife had, you know, quite
a few kids and he wasn't being paid.

What he felt was his, his fair amount.

Mm.

So he was stealing, um, steel from
the yards to sell, to pay for food.

Okay.

It was like six shillings worth, whatever.

And anyway, he was caught.

Okay.

And, uh, he was one of eight VC
recipients that had the VC taken

back by the Queen back in the day.

Like it's, they were reinstalled, but
he was one of those original eights.

Um, anyway, at, at, at a certain point
they had to make the decision to send, uh,

three their kids to Canada to be orphaned.

Mm-hmm.

Cause they couldn't afford anyway.

He died at 49.

Destitute.

Obviously, you know, sheesh alcohol
was, Alco is probably involved.

Yeah.

You know, that would be
definitely, I mean, if you

served in France and all, yeah.

There's p anyway.

Sad story of a brave man who served
his country and was kind of left

to the side and wasn't, which is
something that, you know, I take to

heart, I respect, but it's also family.

It's sad.

He's got like a little, little marker
with a number on it of his grave.

Yeah.

Um, so when my partner Keith and I were,
you know, discussing starting a company,

um, actually I had come up with a name and
I had reached out to Keith and say, let's,

you know, are you interested in mm-hmm.

doing this with me.

Raven Hill was obviously the name that
I went with for, for obvious reasons.

It

Travis Bader: was just,
well, isn't that cool?

Respectful.

Yeah.

49 years old.

He's got his things ups and downs, but,
but he's now the name is living on.

Yeah.

Which

Joel Struthers: is No,
no, a hundred percent.

Um, huge respect.

Yeah.

And I, you know, these are
real soldiers, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, I, yeah.

I don't, what do you say to that?

Right?

These, these guys that
really fucking went at it.

Yeah.

And paid the price set.

So, yeah.

So respect to George,

Travis Bader: um, So, okay.

Steve Mitchell.

Andy McNabb.

Yep.

You and he crossed
paths in the green zone.

You talk about that a little bit, judge.

Yeah.

In the book.

Uh, why do you think he uses
pseudonym and why did you choose

Joel Struthers: not to?

Yeah, that's a good question.

Uh, to be honest, I've never,
I've never thought of it.

Um, I'm thinking maybe
for his professional life.

Hmm.

Um, trying to just disconnect his, you
know, efforts as a security consultant.

Yeah.

On that side of stuff,
being excess s whatever.

And then an author.

I don't know.

I mean, obviously I can't speak for him.

That would be my, my only guess.

Um, but did it

Travis Bader: cross your mind?

Maybe, well,

Joel Struthers: you think it'd
working against him, right?

I mean, at that point with Bravo
two Zero, you're, you know, you're,

everyone knows who you are, right.

Um, but then he goes from, that's,
well, we, non-fiction, theoretically.

Right, right.

And then he goes fiction.

So I don't know if that's
there theoretically, right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, myself, I don't know.

I just never went.

Uh, I just put my name on it.

I didn't really think about too much.

Uh, And

Travis Bader: I mean, so you also had the
option, the allegiance famous for having

the option of people having new names.

Yep.

When they leave and
having, uh, their passport.

If you got a French passport, you
would've been able to keep your

Canadian as well, wouldn't you?

Or would you have to announce it?

No, I

Joel Struthers: think
you'd be able to keep it.

Um, I don't think the, I mean the
now you can, I don't think the

laws were any different back then.

In retrospect.

I wish I had.

Okay.

Just for European Union work.

Every travel it would be, you know,
um, but I didn't, at the time I

was stubborn and I'm Canadian,
you know, whatever surprise.

It's big or what?

Pardon

Travis Bader: me?

Was it a pride thing?

I think so, yeah.

Probably.

Yeah.

Proud

Joel Struthers: Canadian.

That's what I am.

Yeah.

That being said, I have, you know, yeah.

Whatever.

Travis Bader: There's a lot
that he said for being stubborn.

Yeah.

I think we talked about
that before a little bit.

True.

Joel Struthers: But, um, yeah.

The Legion, you know, you can,
I, I kept my name in the Legion.

There is no reason for
me to change my name.

Yeah.

It's not, Illegal for a Canadian
to join a foreign military?

Others?

It is, yes.

So they change a name for that reason.

Um, it's just a admin formality so they
can give him documentation and stuff.

Um, if someone else figures out
your new name and they ask Allegion

like, is Bob, who's now Charles?

Is he in the have to say Yes, he's here.

Gotcha.

Uh, it's not ne for nefarious reason,
it's just documentation type thing, but I

kept my name and then, um, yeah, it, uh,

Travis Bader: yeah.

So there's a interesting story about
hearing protection when Oh, yeah.

, yes.

Okay.

I, but I, I e d something that's going off

Joel Struthers: that was, uh, yeah.

Coming out of, um, down south.

Um, yeah.

So we had, you know, we're doing
low profile PSD with, uh, Iraqi.

So my second time back into
Baghdad, things are kicking off.

Uh, , the jihadist, the, you know,
bathis, whatever you wanna call 'em, the

insurgent are definitely more active.

Mm.

Um, and up to then they had been
focusing their efforts on the American

military or the, the early parts of
the, the new Iraqi or, or the police.

Um, and there was a lot of Ps, PSD
teams starting to ramp up in country.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, from different
countries, different companies.

And again, I can't comment for, for
everybody, and it's just my view, but

I got the gut feeling that a lot of
these guys and these teams were, had

served, they're now civilians, but they
had served in the military pre nine 11.

Mm-hmm.

, so they hadn't really done much.

Right.

Now, they find themselves in a war
zone and they're, they're out to

prove something for themselves.

Sure.

, unfortunately, you know, innocent
Iraqi civilians were being shot, right?

For many a reasons.

Lack of due care and attention.

Not necessarily their fault, but guys
were just happy to, you know what I mean?

Yep.

Um, so as I would, and that's something
I always do when I put myself in, in a

scenario country, what have you, is I
put myself in their other people's shoes.

If I was a young Iraqi did the
same in Africa, if I was, you know,

whatever in Afghanistan, if I was
one of them, what would I be doing?

And, you know, kind of watching what was
going around me, I would've done the same.

And what they were doing was the baths
and the, the judges, whatever, they said,

let's just lay off the military for a
while and we're gonna go after the PSD

teams, cuz these guys are fucking scum.

Right.

Um, in their, in their view.

Um, and fair dues.

So at this time in country,
everyone was, um, overt.

So driving around in the big trucks
and pushing through traffic and.

You know, so we went low profile.

So what we did is we bought local
vehicles, um, put run flat tires on

them, tried to up our bed as we can
around the doors, and it would be

two vehicle moves, so two expats.

Um, so I worked with Mo mostly
Brits, some Kiwis and Aussies.

And the rest were Iraqi, uh, teammates.

So we'd have two cars.

Um, we were armed with AKs, pkm and uh,
we had their shitty macoff pistol too.

. Um, and we would just try to
blend into the, uh, the traffic,

which Baghdad was just cer block.

It was just a traffic traffic jam.

Yeah.

And our biggest fear was obviously we're
stuck in traffic trying to blend in.

is if a, uh, a military call sign pulled
up beside us or another PSD team, and

they look down and they see an Iraqi
sitting there with an AK on their lap.

Right.

No questions asked.

So we would have a laminated, uh,
union Jack, and as soon as they did,

we just put those up in the window.

Um, same thing for, and that worked.

It would, yeah.

And you get a lot of weird looks.

Yeah.

I remember like one of the
early mill units pull up beside

us and they were like, what?

They're like , because
that was somewhat new.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah.

But that it was a handful.

And then working with, I get into
it with, uh, in Seville, I end up

actually punching one of my Iraqis out.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it was, it was a, it was
a handful, um, an eyeopener.

Um, . But yeah.

Um, and then I went up to,
uh, they sent me up to decree.

Yeah.

Um, and there I took over a, uh,
all expat, uh, PSD team when we

were supporting the, uh, US Corps of
Engineers, um, looking for weapons of

mass destruction, which we never found.

P and uh, where were they?

Where were they?

Yeah, exactly.

Where were they hidden
and um, anyway, whatever.

And, uh, blowing up old ordinances
and what had happened, uh, early days

of the first golf and then the second
one they had bombed all these, uh,

cuz decree is where Saddam was from.

And actually where we was found is, um,
guard and a lot of huge, uh, installations

were built there where they had bunkers,
actually the French and Brits building

bunkers, where they would store all
the armament for the Iran Iraq War.

The Americans bombed them and left them.

Unsecured and a lot of those shells
that, you know, got thrown, didn't

explode, were recovered and used
his IDs for, you know, right.

So they went in after that and then
started cleaning up, you know, but

unfortunately, that probably killed
a lot of American soldiers leaving

those, uh, those places unsecured.

Mm-hmm.

. But, so we, I did that for a while
and, um, you know, we had my driver

lost a leg to an anti tank mine.

We lost a couple guys.

Efp were starting to make
their, their appearance mm-hmm.

from the Iranians.

And they were, cuz we started to get
issued, um, actually brand new, uh, 4,

3 50 s that were built here in Canada.

Um, but those EFP would just go right.

Mm.

And fuck it through it.

Um, so I was like, I'll starting, my son
was, Born at that point, young, I was kind

of looking at the, the risk versus the
reward, what was happening in country.

And I was like, this place
is a fucking shithole.

How, how old was your son?

Just like, now he's, he's, uh, 17,
but no, at the time he was just

born like newborn, a year type

Travis Bader: thing.

It's nothing that really brings your
own mortality into a focal point than

having kids, eh, no, a hundred percent.

Joel Struthers: Yeah.

It's funny how that works.

Leaving them was, was tough.

And I Yeah, I get it.

That's so it was, uh, yeah, a big factor.

But, um, then, uh, armor Group
had the, they awarded the, uh,

foreign Commonwealth Office.

The Brit foreign common,
uh, contract in Afghanistan.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and they're only taking,
uh, Brits at the time, but then

it opened up to Commonwealth.

So I was always interested in doing
that, having read, you know, read

books and watched all the documentaries
on the, uh, you know, the Russians

in Afghanistan and obviously the war
being gone, going out for a while.

So I was keen to get over there.

So, um, yeah, I went over, uh,
he had to commit for a year, so I

went back to flying for a while.

So all this time I'd, you
know, I'd fly the summers fires

and then come back, do this.

And, um, so I went over to Afghanistan.

Initially I was up, we were up in, uh,
Kabul supporting the Brit police that

were men doing the mentorship program
for their, um, narcotics police.

Yeah.

Uh, so we'd, we'd fly around.

We had a, it was a South African
company that had a C one 30 herk painted

in un colors, but it wasn't un and
we'd, cuz we were embassy, we had.

Nice kit.

Yeah.

Best, best we could buy in the market.

We had Nice, uh, new armored, uh,
the latest ECM technology, which

put out a electronic countermeasure
bubble around the, um, yeah.

The vehicle.

So that if they try to set off an
ID by, by phone or what have you,

it wouldn't, it wouldn't go through.

Yeah.

Uh, we had the, um, HK 360.

We had the, uh, the Glock and the Mini Me.

So we had nice, nice tools and we'd
load this, our armored into the, into

the H and fly off to, you know, uh,
CANDUs, all these different areas.

And we'd go there for a couple days.

We'd stay in the American, uh, SF
bases, and we'd go out and they'd mentor

these, uh, these Afghan, uh, police
set checkpoints and all kind of stuff.

Yeah.

And then, um, , the Brits obviously
controlled Hellman area, Hellman Province.

Mm-hmm.

, they were building a, uh, a P R T in
Lash, which a p rt, which was like their

provincial Rebuilding, rebuilding team.

Okay.

So they, they would build these,
they'd take over small compounds

in these towns in, uh, in Hemond,
and then that's where the Brits

would go, uh, and do their thing.

Um, so the FCO had, uh, their main
guy, Tom Tugen Tugen, who was actually

just, uh, in the elections there.

He, he, he lost, but he was
one of the, uh, one of the

names to be the Prime minister.

And anyway, he was a young, uh, well,
Paul Fco politician identity, but he was

ex uh, reservist, Brit Mill, served with
the s sps, uh, Iraq and did some stuff

in, had actually been involved in a, in
a pretty good contact in Afghanistan.

But he was the advisor
to the Governor Heman.

Okay.

So the FCO needed, uh, three teams
from Armor Group to go down and live

in the, uh, p R T with, uh, With
Tom and some of his, his people.

But, uh, at that time it was the, uh,
para reg, uh, that were, they did six

month tours, so it was a para reg.

And then, so we went down, um, I took,
uh, leadership of a team, um, and

we went in and, and learn our trade.

And basically we would
take Tom to his compound.

So the governor of, of Af of, of Hellman
had a compound not far from the p r t,

uh, which was secured by the Afghan army.

And he had a little, uh, a
building in there on its own.

And we'd basically drive Tom.

Most of our days were that we'd drive
there, it's a two-story building.

Tom would go into his office,
we'd put a BG at the front of his

office just to make sure you know.

Mm-hmm.

, no one was coming and going,
that didn't need to be.

And we would sit outside the
building just beside his windows

in the armored all, all day.

Mm-hmm.

. And, uh, then obviously
things, this is 2006 right?

Things were not going well
for the Brits and helmet.

Right.

Then the general, uh, the two, sorry.

He would come down ex uh, s a guy, nice
man and we would have him, so we would

drive from the p r t to the governor's
compound cuz they would do late

evenings at the governor's residence.

Discussing what was, what was happening.

Sang in Gresh, um, cuz the
Brits were having a hard time.

Mm-hmm.

and.

I just remember we'd have this two star
general on our back of our armored.

It's about a 50 minute drive from
the, uh, the compound to the p r t.

And man, a good, uh, an RPG seven
man would, would do the trick.

Like it's a hell of a target, you know?

Yeah.

I was always nervous with him
inside because it would, and

that's, that's a big thing.

I was always wondering, when are
they gonna, you know, when are

you gonna take a run, man, this
is, that's, this is where it's at.

We're back and forth the same.

Right.

That's gotta play in the mind.

We only had like three different
roots we could theoretically use.

Like they're, and your enemy's never dumb.

Yeah, right.

They're, they're more than capable.

And, uh, so it was always a waiting
game, like, when are they gonna, but,

um, in the end, we had a suicide bottom,
take a run at, uh, the governor of, of

Hellman, uh, young, 17 year old, uh,
um, Pakistani boy that they brought up

across the border, put a fake uniform.

He made his way through the
checkpoints and walked up and

then detonated himself about 10
meters from 10, 15 meters from us.

But he, he did it with our
Afghan counterparts that were

standing around their, uh, their
technicals, you know, their, Hmm.

Blue show them.

And for me that was
again, another eye-opener.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you combat that?

What 17 year old kid feels?

That's, what were you doing ats at 17?

I was thinking about not

Travis Bader: that boobs, you

Joel Struthers: know, . There you go.

I wasn't thinking about strapping a vest
on and blowing myself up for a cause.

So anyway, it was, uh, again, it
was at that point I done a year.

I'd seen Afghanistan, you know,
there's some beautiful countryside.

I'd seen these young men and women doing
their thing, which, you know, I respected.

But it was, it was time to move on
and, uh, I kind of got away from that.

KBR built, uh, an l and g project in,
uh, north Africa, and they asked, um,

a couple officers we wanted to come
on for the security side of stuff.

And I ended up doing that straight for
eight years, built this l mega train.

Wow.

And we had a twin star, a French,
we hired a, a French twin star to

move our people from the airport
to the camps back and forth.

Yeah.

And so I was in the helicopter all
the time and I started to miss it.

Yeah.

And, uh, that was about eight
years ago, and I said, fuck it.

I came back to Canada and flew full-time.

And I've been with, um, Mustang,
I did the Ebola stuff for

the old company I worked for.

Um, you had an

Travis Bader: Ebola scare, didn't you?

Joel Struthers: Yeah.

Not really.

It was more comical than anything,
but, uh, and then I've been with yeah.

Mustang for coming up in eight years now.

Okay.

Full-time.

You know, we do fires in the summer hall,
skiing in the winter, so it's, yeah.

It's, it's come, it's come together.

Okay.

I'm behind compared to
a lot of my colleagues.

In what way?

Um, experience wise, just time.

Okay.

Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of the
guys I fly with, the type of flying

we do, um, you know, the summer went
two 12 with the tanks and BC and

then the hell ski Rebel Stok, the
2 0 5 s and a stars in the winter.

Um, you know, a lot of guys,
they start at 18, 19, 20.

Right.

I start at 29, 30, you know, so I'm,
when it comes to time in the seat,

I'm a little halfway compared to them.

It's, uh, and you can't,
you can't compensate.

So I'm always working harder,
struggling compared to some of my, yeah.

It'd be a lot of work.

It

Travis Bader: is, but it's all, it's
kinda like learning how to drive a car

early in life as opposed to later and
the way the brain works and how you

pick things up, you're always gonna
have that little bit of an advantage

having those hundred percent Yeah.

Years on the early side as
opposed to the, the inside,

Joel Struthers: but no regrets.

It's, it's all worked out.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: So obviously.

Events like that.

In, in the, the earmuff one I was thinking
about was, uh, firing inside the vehicle.

Yes.

And thinking, okay.

I hear he protection might have

Joel Struthers: went off on, uh, yeah.

So we were coming out
of, it was down south.

Um, Where the Brits were, what's
the name of, um, the airport there?

Um, anyway, we were leaving, so we had
with our Iraqis, and that's where we

went off on the, we would, we'd put them
on the range and we'd, we'd teach 'em.

So PSD worked with the vehicles,
so, you know, reaction to the combat

or to to contact, you know, right.

Left rear.

Yeah.

Um, Getting away from
the vehicles, yada, yada.

So we would, we spent a lot, well, as
much time as we could on the range with

them to get them proficient and safe.

Cuz me being in a, in a vehicle
with, uh, you know, three Iraqis

pumping rounds out the windows.

Last thing I need is an nie or
side of my head getting blown

off by Yeah, by mistake, right?

So we were, I was a stickler on that.

And uh, that was a big one.

Um, safety, but getting them in
the vehicle, doing their stop,

which is mag changes communicating.

And of course during training we had
our, our earmuffs on and it was good.

And then real word we're out
there and stupid mistake,

but never really anticipated.

And we, they took a shot at us
with an i e d missed, but then

there's some smaller fires.

So I said at this point we're on the
route Tampa, which is the main highway

past the kills, like we were past.

But I just, out of interest, I said
to one of 'em, the guys on the left.

Open up with rounds on that berm in
the distance wherein sure enough,

he unloaded his AK mag and we didn't
have any, I was like, holy fuck.

It was like on the shopping
list at the PX was a, a good set

of, uh, . You know what I mean?

Things you just, yeah.

You're focused, you never
thought about it and Yeah.

Made a, made a hell of
a racket inside that.

Anyway, so those are some of
the, the obvious things that

you ever think about, right?

Yeah.

Travis Bader: Obvious in hindsight,
right when your ears are ringing.

You got tinnitus now, but Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, the mental toll that this can take,
and I know a lot of people will, um,

uh, mental health has become a lot
more common place and talked about in

a, um, in a much more positive way.

It's interesting how you're talking
about feeling bad leaving the legion

because they put this time into you.

Yep.

And, uh, there's this level of, um,
um, I, I find it a lot with others when

they're leaving the army, leaving the,
um, air Force, whatever it might be.

There's this team that they feel like
they might be disappointing if they

leave and there's this, um, uh, sense
of obligation and yeah, a lot of times

people go out and they somehow start
gravitating their way back, but it's never

gonna be the same when they come on back.

True.

I, I, I gotta wonder if, if that process
of, uh, building someone in and having

a, uh, a very rigid out process as well
would be a huge help to the, um, the

mental health of soldiers as they leave.

I don't know.

It's, um, uh, yeah, the, the PTs D
side of things and the stress seems to.

, uh, from my observations, a, a
reframing of or how people interpret

things that have happened before.

Yep.

True.

And if you come back and you're
greeted like a hero and warrior and

everything you did was well and good.

Yep.

The, um, uh, the mental health aspects
seems to be diminished compared to those

who, uh, don't share that it's contrary to
their, uh, personal or religious beliefs.

So society says that they're, uh,
they're now on the outside of things.

True.

Yep.

Um, and I, and I guess like obviously
without delving into your observations

where you're at, but on the, uh,
military side, formal French foreign

Legion, you're in there and you come
out, there's a level of acceptance on

the private military contractor side.

Does that get a lot more great?

Does that get more difficult
to, uh, um, to navigate?

Joel Struthers: Yeah.

Um, that's a tough question.

Mm-hmm.

, I think.

As you make reference to, I mean, everyone
reacts differently to their environment

and what's going on around them.

Mm-hmm.

, um, you know, coming outta the
Legion, I think the way they vet

and they take on people and the
training and the discipline and stuff.

I think once you're kind of thrown into
the shit, a lot of those people are,

you know, somewhat prepared for it.

Mm-hmm.

, I think in the western world where it's
all squeaky feely, happy love, , we don't

prepare our, our young men and women
for what they're about to encounter.

And that's has a huge bearing on the
amount of, um, that being said, there's

guys in the leagues on the suffer for psc.

I mean, sure it is where it
is, but I think you need to

prepare, uh, people properly.

If you're gonna ask 'em
to do a nasty job, you.

Put him through the test.

And that's why, you know, Appell was
kind of, cuz um, um, the former, uh,

CEO of the PP C l I, uh, general Kra
had written a, a small Ford and he

had written a read, an early version.

And the reason I think he liked it
is cuz I kind of make reference to

that, is, you know, the allegiance
discipline and the harsh training

isn't, they're doing you a favor.

They're trying to show you, do you
want to, do you want to be here?

Is this for you?

Right.

You know, if you can't handle this, you,
you know, you have no place in, in combat.

And then do you want someone
beside you that shouldn't be there?

Um, now going into the, the
private military type stuff,

we were all ex, you know, um,
military, so we had our background.

So theoretically and Armor Group,
you know, they do their vetting.

Um, and then later on, a lot of these
guys were getting outta the Brit mill.

So they had done
Afghanistan, Iraq, mm-hmm.

and.

We didn't have to do the time in country
like your, your other soldiers did.

You know we were two
months on, one month off.

Um, I think the challenge for us more
so was that back and forth coming out

of a, an environment like Lashcar,
two days later you're in Langley with

your, your, your wife and young son.

That would be tough.

You know what I mean?

Whereas, not that it's easier,
but you know, guys that do.

Six months and they come
back for their week off.

It's not easier, but it's
not quite as, it's a one-off.

Like they do it once, whereas
we're back and forth all the time.

Travis Bader: And you wouldn't wanna shut
it off when you come home, would you?

Well, I don't

Joel Struthers: think you can.

No.

Shut it off.

And that's, I think I, I mentioned Seville
is, you know, like driving back from the

airport, my wife would pick me up and
we'd be in traffic and she'd be like, as

everyone does, well, you know, when you're
stopped at a, a light or a stop sign, you,

you're right behind the other vehicle.

Yeah.

Whereas in my world that I just
left, you need that space to Right.

To get outta jobs if shit kicks off.

Right.

So I'd be like, and then I'd
be looking at, you know, a, a

vehicle parked off to the side.

I'm like, you know, I d uh, or, you
know, dead dogs, they would fill

them with a 1 0 5 shower right on the
side, so you can't switch that off.

Um, but you just, you deal with it.

And, you know, I, I was,
I was fortunate and.

, you know, in my, you know, touch
wood in my career and stuff,

I haven't really experienced
anything that's out of the norm.

People have experienced a lot more
than me, so I've been able, I'm sure

it's, it's definitely affected me,
but I don't, you know, I don't suffer.

I wasn't right.

Beating the shit outta my
wife or, you know what I mean?

Like right.

As unfortunately that it happens.

Yeah.

Like the, wasn't the 82nd airborn and
they shut down the completed regimen.

Cause the amount of murder,
suicides, you know, post.

Right.

It's, it's a legit, you know, issue.

So I think our challenge was
probably more, um, and that's

something I think the military look
at is the counseling for families.

That back and forth, because I would
leave as, as you know, many soldier

would do, and whoever's staying home be
at the, the male or the female, they're

left behind to run the, the household.

Mm-hmm.

deal with the children,
get everything done.

You can't expect to come back
and just like become the,

the alpha male or whatever.

Right.

No, you need to kind of just slowly,
and I think there's a lack of.

preparedness for that, where they
say, Hey, listen, hey, you know, as

a family now you've been separated.

Your partner now has been in an
environment that's, you know,

highly, you know, kinetic, and
there's gonna be some stress and some

emotion, and it's gonna take 'em a
while to, to switch off and mm-hmm.

just relax, give him a bit of leeway.

But vice versa, Joel, when you're
coming back to, to Langley, just

wind your neck in and just relax.

She's, you know, she had the, she's
been running the household for the

last whatever, just do her thing.

And then, you know,
unfortunately I make reference.

You know, you've been home for two
weeks and you're driving back to the

airport and you're, you're gutted cuz
it was a bad experience and that you

got your two year old in the back.

You're like, fuck, I'm going
back to, yeah, that's, that,

that I remember the most as.

Um, challenging and perhaps some regrets.

Yeah.

But that's life, right?

It is life.

And you know, in retrospect post, you
know, post the book, and I, I get into

it, it's interesting because I have a good
relationship with my, she's remarried, has

a son, and we have a, a good relationship
where we co-parent, well, our two kids.

I like her husband.

He respects my place.

I respect his place.

I like their, their son.

I think it's, we're lucky in that manner.

Yes.

You know, the kids,
it's all about the kids.

So we've, we've, we've done well.

But, uh, it was funny when I, when I
wrote the story, I, I reached out to her

and I said, listen, I'm, you know, I got

This story, it obviously dwells, jumps
into our, our marriage and it's, you

know, it's not about that, but it's
obviously has its place, you know.

Um, if you, if you want, you
can read it, you can comment.

But, um, and I'll, you know, yeah.

But if you don't, and then it comes out,
you gotta, you can't say it's too late.

Right, right.

Anyway, so that was an interesting
something I never really Yeah, yeah.

Never really considered.

And then her, her husband
read it, actually.

I don't think she ever read it.

Yeah.

That was a weird scenario too.

Like, holy shit, , you know what I mean?

Something you never, you never consider.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, the guys I worked with in
Arbor Group and stuff, um, I think, to

answer your question, we, we weren't in
the shit like, like, like we'd fly into

Gresh and sang with the, the Paris and
the last six months I was, there was a

Royal Marines and they were just getting
the, the shit kicked in with the man.

And, you know, we'd fly back with
a dead, dead guy in the Chinook.

And yeah, I was just more
humbled by these young kids and

what they were experiencing.

So I, you know what, I had
nothing to complain about.

And if I felt sorry for myself,
it's like, shut the fuck up, man.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

. Yeah.

I think we're all the same, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: There's a number
of people who, uh, ask questions.

Oh, yeah.

Something on social media.

Some of 'em you've actually
already kind of answered.

Okay.

Um, yeah.

And, you know, talking about, uh, coming
back and not being able to switch off

yet a, uh, a public transit and maybe
they gotta read the book that, oh,

I, that was kind of a, uh, the bus.

Yeah.

The bus incident.

The bus incident.

Yeah.

Uh, it is, uh, yeah.

But, uh, yeah, lucky everything turned
out as an ought to, and we're, um,

Joel Struthers: yeah, I was, uh, there
was a, um, a gentleman that was sitting

beside us that had watched the whole, so
luckily I had someone to collaborated for.

Yeah.

Um, do we, are we gonna tell that story?

Or?

If you want to, so I was just
back from RME and my wife,

we had a, a condo in kits.

And so I was on my three weeks
off, I think, at that point.

And my, the guy I flew for, um, Called me.

He's based outta Calgary.

And, uh, he said, Joel,
what are you doing?

I was like, oh, I'm just watching
Sopranos or whatever, you know?

I was like, cast a favor.

I was like, yeah, by all means.

He said, I, his brother, who's a big,
uh, construction guy, was putting in

a, a bid to do the soil reclamation
at the, the airport up in Fort Nelson.

Okay.

BC and government bid.

You had to put in a certified check on the
cert certain time for, you know, whatever.

However that works.

It just shows that you're Yeah.

You're a legit company, you know?

Um, it's not a bribe.

It's just part of the It's not a bribe.

The pro.

Yeah.

A pro not, it's not a bribe.

It's, yeah.

Part of their, anyway, he said
it has to be at the, uh, the

government building by noon.

I'm gonna send a, uh, an
envelope by Air Canada Cargo.

Do you mind grabbing
it and dropping it off?

I said, yeah, Al me's too easy.

And my, my wife at the time worked at
a golf course not far from the airport.

Okay.

Um, so she dropped me
off at Air Canada car.

I grabbed this, this envelope, and I
walked down to the main bus station,

which is by the old Delta Hotel.

Yep.

And there was two or three buses.

Rush hour.

So there's a seat at the very back.

So I sit down side seat.

Um, and what I remember is I look
across and there's an attractive

girl, and she had a Russian book.

She was like studying.

And then next I see this like
leg twitching beside her.

And I look over and it's like a
guy in a hoodie, and he's mm-hmm.

like, you know, just kind of looks
like skateboard type by tire, but, you

know, tweaking, you know, tweaking.

And then within, I don't know, whatever
it was, seconds, he stood up and

went to rip the envelope out my hand.

Like I kinda had it on my, yeah.

Two hands holding it so that, so my
reaction was just to stand up, pull

the envelope back, and then put,
kind of put my hand on its chest

and, and push him down back to his,
I was like, dude, what the fuck?

You know?

Yeah.

Why are you touching my shit?

Like, oh, I'm weirded out, right?

Like, totally.

And he's like, fuck you, you know?

I was like, dude, man, just relax.

And he, he starts going for
his, something in his pocket.

Nope.

So I grabbed his other arm and I pull it.

I said, keep your fucking hands there.

What's your problem?

He's like, fuck you, you're,
you're high in crystal meth.

And I was like, well, what?

No, not . Wait a second.

I thought you might do my, yeah, now
I, now I know what I'm dealing with.

Anyway, he starts kicking up
at me, you know, like, yeah.

So, you know, I just drilled him as
hard as I could in the, in the mouth.

Knocked him out.

Yeah.

And then right away I was like, fuck.

Whoops.

Yes.

That was probably little over the top.

And then I do, I just remember the look
and that poor girl, she just looked at

me like with a complete whore, you know?

I was like, man, so I walked
to the front of the bus.

Worst.

I'm like, I'm like, sir, because
we're still sitting there.

I was like, sir, I just had an altercation
with the gentleman in the back.

And then he's at this point,
starts hobbling up the back.

He's got the phone.

That's what was in his pocket phone.

He's calling nine one one.

So he is like, you know what, just
the bus driver says just get off and

get on the bus in the front of us.

So I go into the front of
the bus, the guy lets me in.

Yeah.

And then buddy basically stands in front
of that bus, so it can't go anywhere.

Mm.

Long story short, poor victim, both buses.

Dismounted, there must have
been about five or six rp.

They have a Yep.

There was transit police were there.

Uh, luckily he had been, uh, arrested the
day prior for hasling old people or so.

He was hogtied in the back
of one of the cop cars.

Right.

Freaking out.

Why I'm bleeding, why am I being arrested?

You know, . But there was a young
gentleman that had been sitting beside

us and he had seen the whole thing.

So he collaborated my side of the story.

I had called my, my wife
as this was happened, said,

come back to the bus station.

She's like, why?

I was like, just come back.

So she showed up to see me standing there
with like all these police officers,

all about a hundred people, all these,
you know, red flag, I'm sure for her.

Like, holy shit, 1:00 AM
I dealing with, you know?

Yep.

Anyway, they took a picture.

I went back to the, uh, little
precinct and, uh, nice police lady

took a picture of the envelope.

I don't think they actually, we took
the checkout, but they took my story.

Yeah.

And, uh, you know, I was concerned that
I had got above and beyond, and she said,

well, we don't really, you know, suggest
that type of action, but perhaps the

other individual won't do that again.

Yeah.

Perhaps you had it coming.

You're good to go.

Anyway, so I, my wife dropped me off at
the building, in the government building.

I had to check in on a time, and then
about a minute after 12, my boss calls

me any problems, . I was like, no.

Nope.

, nope.

All good.

. But I've never been,
never been on a bus since.

There you go.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Well, that's,

Joel Struthers: so yeah, that was, uh,
probably, uh, um, not the wisest choice,

but it was a, a direct correlation
to my, my environment and Headspace.

I, yeah,

Travis Bader: totally.

Yeah.

Uh, you ever watch a Bear Grills episode?

I think it was called
Escape to the Legion.

You ever see that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What were your thoughts on No, no, no.

Were that, no.

Okay.

? No.

Just that was a, uh, a lot of Hollywood.

Yes.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Yep.

Um, got a note here.

Haiti watch big tales of how
the Haitians are being helped.

Yeah.

It's funny.

I actually, I reached
out to a buddy yesterday.

My wife's like looking at flights
and accommodations everywhere

is like really expensive.

It's like, you know, we haven't
been outta town for a while.

She's like, wow.

Hey, there's some stuff real cheap.

Flights down to Haiti right now.

Joel Struthers: I bet there is.

Yeah.

.
Travis Bader: I, I'm like, and she's
like, uh, what do you think of Haiti?

And I'm like, in the middle of
something else and I'm, uh, I

give a text over to, to Seb.

Uh, yeah, he's was down there doing
some work while about it, Hey, Seb,

thinking about doing a family thing
down in Haiti, . And he was like,

uh, brother, I hope you're joking,

And he said, what?

After the other, I'm like, okay.

He's like, clearly, clearly your political
science and your geography needs some

Joel Struthers: work.

Yeah.

You need to, yeah.

Talk to your, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, um, Yeah, we went in there for a
short span of time right after the,

uh, within the week of the earthquake.

Mm-hmm.

or close too.

Um, just to see if we could Yeah.

Maybe help out on logistics side for some
of these NGOs, you know, other people.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, twofold.

It was more to see, it was interesting.

It worked out, uh, schedule wise.

I, I was working in, uh, Algeria at the
time and, um, yeah, we thought why not?

Um, my dad's brother at the east
passed, unfortunately, but he was a, uh,

commander in the, the, uh, Canadian Navy
and he was in charge of the, uh, the

Canadian military efforts at the time.

Um, so he put me in touch with
someone at the un So we showed up

and we drove in from, uh, across the
border and rendered ourselves a villa

and how a driver and, um, showed
up at the UN facility installation,

whatever, which was at the airport.

And, uh, they invited us
to their morning meeting.

So it was just all UN people and us,
and, uh, I don't think they realized

who exactly or what we were, right.

Mm-hmm.

. And they went through their
whole spiel, what they were

doing, and blah, blah, blah.

And the end, end of the, uh, meeting
they had, I stood up, they asked

me to stand up and, you know,
introduce myself and explain why we

were there, all that kind of stuff.

And then I could see the main,
the main guy kind of like, huh,

And then at the end of it, he's
like, uh, do you mind if, could

I talk to you for a second?

Yeah.

By all means.

And, uh, yeah, we were no longer welcomed
into the . I didn't, I don't think they

really realized what we were doing,
but at, we were basically just saying,

listen, if you have NGOs out there, mm.

Because it, it was a bit of a shit show.

Things were, yeah, they had their
hands full, but there was a lot of,

you know, these companies that were
there willing and wanting to help.

But there was obviously risks involved
with that, that part of the country.

We said, you know, if they're concerned
about their safety and they just want,

you know, people with that kind of
background, SOPs and help them set up a

safe way of doing things, we're around
and willing and able, you know, so.

Right.

Um, did the same thing with Canadian
Embassy, but it wasn't really a.

Yeah, a, uh, favorable experience.

And we, um, we ended up just kind of
hanging out with this, uh, old hotel,

which had wifi and a lot of the NGO groups
were, were staying there too, so we just

befriended quite a few of them and just
helped them put together some procedures

and plans and suggestions, like just
hung out and then we, we headed home.

Very cool.

But, uh, yeah, it's a, um, the
history in Haiti is, is interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah, how they came to the freedoms.

I mean, obviously there's the French
involvement Napoleon stuff, and they're,

um, yeah, they've had a hard run, but,
uh, they're, they're a tough people.

Well, you're

Travis Bader: quite the history
buff that really kind of comes

through and you're your books.

Yeah, I

Joel Struthers: do like, I do like
the history and that's always the main

thing for me in my travels is kind of
like, you know, where and why is this

happening and what's the history here?

And, uh, it obviously repeats itself,
but, uh, yeah, just touching old.

You know, castles or old
forts or, that's cool.

Being, uh, there's a shit that's, I
think that's a result of my growing

up in Germany as a youngster.

You know, just castles were, were neat
or anything to do with the war, you know?

Yeah.

Um, and it's just always stuck with me.

I really enjoy the, the
historical side of things.

Travis Bader: Well, you had a neat
thing with the, uh, sword as well, too.

Yeah.

That was a pretty, uh, yeah,

Joel Struthers: no, agreed.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm glad you liked that.

Um, yeah, that's at the end of civil,
and that was, so my dad's dad was a, um,

missionary doctor, and he went into ch and
in fact, my dad's dad was born in China.

Um, they went over there to teach
a Chinese medicine and how to, you

know, they're starting to build
hospitals and how to run them.

And he was there when the
Japanese, so he's in Manchuria

when the Japanese came through.

Um, and he wrote a book, um, and
I read it, but, and this sword,

so there's a samurai sword.

So my, my dad's dad was, uh, artillery.

second wave, Juneau.

Uh, and then he finished off,
um, he worked for, uh, NATO

in Brussels for the Canadians.

And I just remember, and then he,
he retired in Santon on the island.

Okay.

And they always, and from early days they
had their like wicker basket at the front

door with the canes and the umbrellas.

Yeah.

But there was always the samurai sword
in there that I was enamored with.

Yeah, totally.

And, um, anyway, when my grandma
passed, she left it to me in her will,

cuz she knows into that kind of stuff.

And, uh, it's a legit samurai sword,
um, that he had brought back with him.

But in his book, the only time
he references, like, there's no

history or story behind that sword.

Um, the only run he had with the,
uh, the Japanese military was, and

they had, the Japanese had given, uh,
free passage to, to whites or, you

know, four nationals in that area.

, but there had been an altercation
where a Japanese soldier,

soldiers had been killed.

So as we know, the Japanese
were fairly brutal.

They went into one of, of these
hospitals, but it was a hospital for

the, the Chinese military size stuff.

And they basically ban everybody.

Mm-hmm.

doctors.

Yeah.

Nurses, patients.

And one of the, um, staff was able to get
a message to my grandfather to come help.

And when he got there, he confronted
the Japanese officer in charge

and he said that's the one time
he was, he feared for his life.

Mm-hmm.

. Cause he basically said, this is a
place of medicine, not a place of, but

you don't, you can imagine you don't
tell a Japanese officer shit Right.

In that setting.

Right.

Not in that setting.

Um, but anyway, he came back and he
wasn't into military or any type of

that, but he came back with a sword.

And that would not be something
that someone just gives away, right?

No.

Um, so I had the sword, I looked at it.

And I gave it to my son.

This is family arm.

I said, you know what son?

This is, this is yours.

There's two things.

We could just let it rot away, you know,
or we could track down its original

family and see if we could give it
back to the rightful owners, you know?

Cool.

Um, so I had reached out to a
gentleman through a LinkedIn.

I found, uh, using Tokyo, he
runs, uh, Paul's his name.

He runs a, a company called the
Japanese Sword, and he had been a

curator for the British Museum in
London there for the, that department.

And then gone over to, done really
well for himself, but he just loves the

samurai sword and culture and stuff.

So I sent him pictures, shipped
him the sword, like we went

back and forth for a year.

So I, you know, I trusted him.

He said, you know, the only
way I can tell you more, um,

is by getting my hands on it.

So I shipped it to him and he said,
yep, this is an old family sword.

It's over 500 years old.

Wow.

The tip had been broken off at some
point and they repaired it, so it was

no longer legally, uh, but whatever.

Yeah.

Um, but there was no
markings on the handle where.

Typically the blacksmiths would
leave a mark and they could

from there maybe figure it out.

Right.

But what he said is, gimme some
time and I'll, I'll get back to you.

So he did.

And what happened is, um, the, uh,
shrine, uh, for the emperor go Toba

on the Oakey Islands, which is on
the north between, uh, Japan and, and

Korea, um, he was an original ever
that fought the samurai and lost, and

he was exiled on this, on this island.

But he was a, a keen, um, sword enthusiast
and made his own swords and stuff.

Anyway, so that's, they were willing
to take it on and they would look

after it and, uh, you know, put
it on display for people to see.

And so I said, fuck yeah.

But the deal is the family.

We go over and we hand over the sword.

And so the kids and I,
we flew to oak okay.

In Japan and, uh, yeah, handed the sword.

Good deal.

Yeah.

So my, my son, uh, you
know, I stood there.

It was interesting cuz uh, you
know, there's this, uh, shrine.

Um, priest in his full on garb, and we
go through the whole procedure to show

our respect and honors to the gods.

Mm-hmm.

and the Emperor and my son there, and
he's, uh, his white socks had gone through

the washing machine, so they're now pink.

Anyway, so he's in his, you know,
I thought it was in interesting

juxtaposition of culture and stuff.

So there he is with his Samurai
sword handing it, you know, in his,

it was Pink Socks and that's why
the chapter's called Pink Socks.

Yeah, yeah.

. But, uh, yeah, I know it was, it was
really a, it was a good experience for,

for them and I, to be honest with you.

And that was, I was quite taken in Japan.

If you have the opportunity to go
there, it's, they got their shit dialed

Travis Bader: at some point.

Yeah, I think I

Joel Struthers: should probably do that.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's a neat spot.

Anyway, so yeah, that's, uh, and I thought
that was kind of, I mean, I don't say

it, but I think in, in a way it kind
of comes, it's kind of soldier's honor.

You know, you, this was, you know,
politics were side, I mean, we know they

were brutal, but, um, you know, at the
end of the day, it was probably just a

soldier doing what he was told to do.

And I, I get into that too with Seville
on the, on the German side of stuff.

Mm-hmm.

, you know, it's like, And I
see it, to be honest with you.

I see it right now with, you know, the
shit show in, uh, over in the Ukraine is,

you know, I, I feel sorry for the young
soldiers, whatever side, they're just

being thrown into the shit, you know?

So I've, I've always taken that from
my, I see the soldiering side of it

where it's just young men and women
doing what they're, what they're told.

It's not, you know, it's not
the leaders that are swaying

them in the wrong direction.

But, uh, so that was my effort to kind
of maybe give something back that didn't

belong to us and belonged to a family that
obviously, probably lost, lost family.

Yeah.

And there was a gentleman there, um, Mr.

San as I called him, but he was
the, um, the sword specialist,

the government sword specialist.

And, uh, he was probably in his eighties.

It's hard to tell, they're hard
to gauge, but he had, knowing the

history of, you know, Japan and the
military, he guaranteed he served.

And uh, but um, in the morning
we were leaving really early.

And, uh, when he found out the story
behind the sword, cause I think a lot

of swords had been returned because.

The Japanese military, mass producing
World War I, world War ii, right?

Mm-hmm.

, but this one's an old, an
old family sword, really.

So when.

when the, um, translators explained
to him the story behind it.

He was, I could tell that he was
like, oh, he's quite, um, and then

during dinner, uh, you know, through
the translator, we kind of talked.

Unfortunately, I never, I, one
of my regrets is I never asked

him what his background, but I
didn't know the protocol on that.

Mm-hmm.

, and I don't know how comfortable
they would feel sharing.

Right.

But in the morning, we had to catch
an early ferry off the island.

And when we showed up at
like seven, there was Mr.

Sand, and he had a gift
for my son and my daughter.

And I think he, you know, I didn't
speak Japanese, obviously, he

didn't speak English, but we had,
we had learned how to bow properly.

Okay.

And so we, we bowed and then I grabbed
his hand and shook it and he laughed.

, you know what I mean?

But I think he appreciated that
we were giving something back.

That is really cool.

Yeah.

So that, for me, that was the neatest
part of the, the experience was his.

Travis Bader: Well, that definitely
came across in the book too.

Yeah.

Which is, that's cool.

Which is pretty neat.

Appreciate.

Yeah,

Joel Struthers: yeah, yeah.

You never know how things come across.

Right.

Totally.

Travis Bader: I think we covered a lot of
the things on here without going, uh, too

deep in some of the, uh, the more personal
ones that they're, they're asking there.

Um, is there anything that we should be
talking about that we haven't covered?

Joel Struthers: Um, no.

I mean, I think Seville, it's a tough,
so it's been out since what may?

Um, it's a tough sell because
it's, yeah, it's a follow up book.

I don't know how many of those
exist, cuz if you haven't read Apel.

It wouldn't, you could probably
comment, but if you know what I mean?

If you read Seville without knowing No,
you could, you could reads on its own.

You could, but some of the names

Travis Bader: Sure.

Yes.

Illa.

Well, what it does is it'll make
somebody want to read a pill too.

Right?

Yeah.

But agreed.

It, it's totally a standalone.

You don't have to do one to get the other.

Cuz I, I really enjoyed reading the, uh,
the perspective from the, um, uh, the pm

c side and all the references you made.

And,

Joel Struthers: uh, but I
think that was lacking, right?

Cause I think there can, I might
be wrong, but there can be kind of

a, a negative connotation to the.

You know, the, the Blackwater
stuff and whatever, like

Travis Bader: some
people have that, right?

Yeah.

And actually one of the questions
that they, they had was, um, um, uh,

juggling the, cuz it's a positive thing.

Yeah.

But there is that negative, uh,
sphere around it and the, uh, some

ethical quandaries at times too.

Yes.

Being able to, yeah.

Uh, and how you might juggle

Joel Struthers: that.

And I found, and that.

Similar reason Seville made sense because
it does educate to a certain extent and

it shows, it portrays, you know, like
the guys on my team, uh, in Afghanistan

team too, they're Aaron and Chris.

Like Aaron, he was, um,
ex uh, British officer.

Um, so it, it was interesting cuz I'm,
you know, I've been with Armor Group

for a while, had my experience, you
know, Iraq in Afghanistan, so I took

over, you know, as team leader, but
then I got, you know, my subordinate

is, you know, a fresh officer out
of the, you know, obviously mm-hmm.

He's more than capable and Sure.

But we were all good.

We understood, like we were a team
with, there wasn't that hierarchy, it

was more just a, a positional thing.

But Chris was ex uh, Royal Marine,
uh, we actually had two Royal Marines.

Um, the other two guys were, uh,
Brit, uh, Brit Army, one in one,

you know, an mc, a military cross.

So they're all experienced guys.

But, uh, Aaron went on,
he's a, he's a doctor now.

Um, so he got med school after
and did really well for himself.

Chris is still out there doing the health
and safety type of stuff, so, There was,

you know, some really some good people.

And when it came to ethics, we were
not out there looking the fuck around.

We were just there to do a job.

And I think Armor Group, you know,
especially for the fco, cuz they vetted

the FCO had final call on who, so your
resume and stuff would go to the FCO

before they allowed you on that project.

Um, and I think they, they did a good
job, you know, where you had people

that were there for the right reasons.

That can't necessarily be said everywhere,
but I can't comment for, for anyone else.

Mm-hmm.

. But I know within my group and the
way I am, we were there to provide

a, a skillset and a, a job not out
there to, to fuck around and Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not, yeah.

Travis Bader: That's not me.

So if people want to get the book,
what's the best place to place to do it?

Joel Struthers: Um, so yeah, both
books are obviously on Amazon.

Yeah.

Seil, uh, whether it's both audiobook, but
for Seil it's only on Audible and Apple.

Yeah.

Um, or you could go, you know, I'm on
Instagram, there's the Legion engineer

website, which has links to the books.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's, it just
takes you straight to Amazon.

Well, I'll put,

Travis Bader: I'll put
those links up there.

Joel Struthers: Appreciate that.

Yeah.

And if, yeah, if they want it, I don't
keep a lot of books, but if people, every

once in a while they, people ask for
a, a signed copy, what I do basically,

so I just order a handful from Amazon.

Yep.

And uh, basically I just sign
them and ship 'em and it's just

the cost of whatever it was on
Amazon and the shipping and yeah.

I'll send it off.

It's crazy.

Interested in that.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: That's awesome.

Joel, thank you very much
for me, another podcast.

Thank you.

Really enjoy urge conversation.

Joel Struthers: Appreciate you.

Thank.