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In this episode of “Lab Medicine Rounds,” Justin Kreuter, M.D., sits down with Melanie Bois, M.D., associate professor of laboratory medicine and pathology, a cardiovascular pathologist at Mayo Clinic, and host of the “Society for Cardiovascular Pathologies” podcast, to discuss why you should consider utilizing social media within your practice and how to maximize your efforts.
A Mayo Clinic podcast for laboratory professionals, physicians, and students, hosted by Justin Kreuter, M.D., assistant professor of laboratory medicine and pathology at Mayo Clinic, featuring educational topics and insightful takeaways to apply in your practice.
(studious electronic music)
- This is Lab Medicine
Rounds, a curated podcast
for physicians, laboratory
professionals, and students.
I'm your host, Justin Kreuter,
the bow tie bandit of blood,
a transfusion medicine
pathologist at Mayo Clinic.
And today's episode will
focus on social media,
why you should consider
using it in your practice,
how to maximize your efforts.
And so, to that effort,
joining us today is Dr. Melanie Bois,
Associate Professor of Laboratory
Medicine and Pathology,
a cardiovascular pathologist
at Mayo Clinic here in
Rochester, Minnesota,
and also, host of the
Society for Cardiovascular
Pathologies Podcast.
So thanks for joining us today, Dr. Bois.
- It is my absolute pleasure to join you,
Dr. Kreuter, thank you for having me.
- So, you know, we were just talkin'
before we started recording here
about how maybe some
of that early adopters
are getting through,
and maybe more the bulk of pathologists
might be now kinda considering
becoming more active with social media.
So, kinda what's your why,
why is social media a tool
that our lab medicine pathology community
should consider using?
- Yeah, I think it's a great question.
And honestly, I can't
say that I'm one of those
that adapted right away,
and was fully embracing social
media when it became popular,
but, I will say I've
noticed and appreciated
the benefits of it as my practice
has continued to progress.
So, for instance,
I think there are probably
three main reasons
why social media is really
really useful in today's world.
Number one is the patients.
So patients are on the internet,
and they are really searching for answers.
They have questions about
their disease processes,
those that are affecting their loved ones.
And there is a study that 80% of patients
are going to be on social media,
or rather, on the internet,
looking for answers about
these types of questions.
75% of those are on social media.
And I really feel like it should be us
being the ones to give them the answers
and to really direct them to
where they should be looking
or what physician resource
might be really useful for them,
and provide answers to these questions
that are really bothering them,
for both them and their loved ones.
In addition to that,
I found it to be a great
professional networking resource,
so that is something that I didn't expect,
It wasn't on my radar at all
when I started using social media
personally and professionally.
But I've developed this
wonderful network of pathologists
who I would not have been
able to meet otherwise.
And we've collaborated
on research projects,
I get to see them at meetings,
we share a lot of common interests.
And that has been a really
rewarding process for me,
both personally and professionally,
within the social media world.
And lastly is education,
and I know that's something
that's near and and dear
to your heart, Dr. Kreuter,
I just love being able to use it,
to spread the joy that
cardiovascular pathology brings to me
and why it's important to me,
and how we can positively
impact our patients
by being aware of certain disease
processes that may affect,
not only your patient,
but your patient's first degree relatives,
their mother, their brother,
their son or daughter,
and being able to
understand the implications
of what we're seeing under the microscope
and how that can affect the
patients and their loved ones.
- That's really awesome, so,
I think, maybe for those listening,
maybe it kinda surprises people
about patients and
connecting with patients,
and maybe for the community
that are non-pathologists,
thinking about pathologists
interacting with patients,
it might seem as a surprise.
What do you say,
I know that sometimes we
have pathology residents
that are just getting
started in social media,
or we have medical
laboratory technologists
that are on social media, and
they sort of wonder about that
or I think they get concerned about,
if a patient reaches out with a question,
how do you reassure
or talk to somebody in
that kind of a position?
- Yeah, absolutely, I
think it's a good question.
I actually started using social media
when I was a resident too, and certainly,
I developed a pretty strict guideline
to sort of hold myself to
when it comes to interacting
in the space of social media.
Because first and foremost,
we need to remember that
it is a very public forum.
And so, we need to be
careful about what we share
and how we share it.
From the educational standpoint,
and I'll circle back to
your question, Dr. Kreuter,
but from the educational standpoint,
I don't post anything
that would be able to be
traced back to a patient.
Only generic questions
about a disease process,
even I might fabricate
some of the age or gender
or sex of the patient,
in order to make sure that there's no way
that that information can be traced back.
And I think it's important to note, too,
that the patients who are
affected by this disease process
can be reading your post too,
so it's not a neat process,
it's not something that's really cool.
Instead it's something
that we can all learn from,
and really be aware of, in
order to better help patients
who are are in this process
or really experiencing this firsthand.
And in doing so, you do
sometimes interact with patients
that do see your post,
because they're
researching about a disease
that they may have been diagnosed with.
And I think the important part there
is not necessarily to
provide medical advice,
but rather to refer the
patient to their doctor
if they have specific questions,
or provide resources that are validated
to help get them linked
into a medical professional
that can really provide the
appropriate medical advice
for their specific scenario.
- I like the way that
you kinda manage that
as kind of, I don't know, in my head,
I'm thinking of like
air traffic controller,
just kind of directing
people to really where that
right information is--
- Right.
- 'Cause, yeah, I don't know about
how somebody could even
possibly conceive of
doing a medical consultation
in whatever the character
count limits are.
(chuckles)
- Oh, I totally
agree with you,
"In 250 characters or less,
please diagnose, send,
"and provide a treatment strategy."
No, and I don't think
that would be responsible
for us either, because
every patient is unique
and every patient comes with
a very specific framework
of what's going on in their lives
and how their disease is presenting, so,
really it's something that requires
a more in-depth medical approach.
And I know it's something that actually
Mayo Clinic started using,
I believe it was in 2010,
we might have to double check that date,
wherein they started this
social media approach,
and saying, "Patients, we're here,
"we we wanna hear about
your disease processes,
"we wanna be able to help you."
And they really started
a coordinated approach,
through Twitter and YouTube and Facebook,
and encouraged us to do the same,
because, really, the only way
we're going to be able
to help these individuals
is so that they know that
we're here and we're listening.
- You know, I was wondering if, you know,
this is wonderful,
connecting with patients,
professional networking, education.
And I think maybe some
listeners might be like, okay,
these are three lanes of things
that I do not have time for.
So, I guess, respectful of time,
I guess that puts importance on, okay,
if you are gonna engage in this world,
how can we really maximize
and use our time on
social media well, right?
I mean, if we're talking about
why people should engage in this,
I guess there's quite a lotta that,
what is it, doom scrolling--
- Yes (laughs).
- Or something, where people
kinda get lost in scrolling through,
and I think that that's a real thing.
What do you say to people about, you know,
what's your advice
about how to really use your
time wisely with social media?
- It's another great question.
I think it's one that we all
continue to struggle with.
You know, I think we all find ourselves
staring at our phone
when maybe we should be
interacting in a different way,
or maybe we should be making eye contact
with the person who's
passing us in the hall,
rather than scrolling through
our social media feeds.
So it's certainly something
that I think we all struggle with.
My best approach, and
it's something, actually,
I spoke with Jared Gardner about,
who really started a lot of this,
at least Twitter-based social media,
kind of revolution in pathology
and bringing pathologists
into social media
and being a advocate for the
patient through that way.
And his advice was, really
take a case, take one case,
and use it, and use it multiple times
use it in multiple different venues, even.
If you already have one that
you're giving a lecture on,
use that, and make sure
that you have taken out
all patient-related information
that can be identifiable
so you're not violating HIPAA.
And then you use the
teaching points from that
in different ways,
and you can use similar pictures,
or different pictures from that,
to really highlight different aspects
of the disease process.
And then you can do it on Twitter,
you can make a YouTube
video if you prefer,
something like that,
a Facebook account can
also be a way to do that.
And so use those same cases,
and use them again and again,
because your colleagues
most likely aren't going to see it,
necessarily, the first time,
but they might see it
the second or third time.
So just use the resources
that are available,
and use them in multiple different ways.
I found that approach to
be generally very helpful.
And it does minimize the
amount of time that I'm sitting
at my computer trying to come
up with new interesting cases,
or trying to come up with
something clever to say.
I think that it does really
help streamline the approach,
and it also helps get that message out
about what you're trying to teach,
or what you're trying to advocate.
- I like, you brought up and you named
a couple of different
platforms that are out there,
and I think that's
another aspect of people
that are thinking about getting
started in social media,
where it can also seem very overwhelming.
So, for our listeners,
how do you think about the
social media landscape?
You know, at this point, August 2022,
realizing things are dynamic and changing.
How do you characterize
and think about these different platforms?
- That's a really good
question, I struggle a bit
because I know that there are
so many different platforms,
and the popularity of the
platforms ebbs and flows,
and it's even generation specific.
So the generation that's
probably a little bit behind me
has really embraced social media,
it's a way that they communicate,
it's a way that they look
up information about,
really anything they're
interested in, including medicine.
And I think that within that sphere,
you have the the Twitter platform,
which has been very good
for an interprofessional communication,
and in a way that a professional
network can be developed.
There are certainly are patients
and there are students on that platform
that are really interested
in learning about disease
processes as well.
A platform called
Instagram is really useful
in using images in order to communicate
what we want to try and say.
So it's less text based,
it's less word based, but
rather really focused on images.
And certainly,
the dynamics of each of
these platforms change,
and the popularity among
generations can change too.
So I see those as two
different ways to use it.
YouTube is another one
that can be very useful,
but is more video based.
And so if that's something
that you really embrace
and you find that you
can take your lectures
and put them into very
digestible, small segments
that are really amenable to
developing video series around,
that could be a great platform as well.
There are also ways to blast your message
across all of these different platforms,
and those require
subscriptions in some areas,
some of them are free to use,
but you can take a centralized
message and then put them
on all of the different
platforms available to you.
- So we've been talkin' about, you know,
the social media landscape
is kind of dynamic.
And I'm assuming you're
also dynamic and changing,
as you're interacting and
have been on social media now
for some time, and have
cultivated a community.
How does your social media practice
kind of evolve over time?
'Cause maybe our listeners
can start to identify,
you know, ones that maybe
are on social media now,
but maybe they feel stuck in a rut.
You know, it might be helpful to hear,
what's your journey been like,
and how has this affected you?
- Yeah.
So I started out in
Twitter for the most part.
It was really encouraged by a co-resident
to try and get that, an account
in this arena up and going,
and then really just see where it took me.
So I spent most of my time in Twitter
really just getting used to that platform,
understanding how to
communicate on that platform
and what exactly the audience would be
for that particular area.
I did try to do a little bit on Facebook,
I didn't find it to be as user
friendly, that tends to be,
and not from a technology standpoint,
but it tends to be a
bit more socially driven
rather than professionally driven,
at least in my personal experience.
So I went back to Twitter predominantly.
Another one that I think is really helpful
is the Instagram site.
I know a few pathologists
that have successfully made an account
and made a presence within that space.
I think that it is,
again, very image based,
which lends itself
to a lot of our subspecialty
disciplines in pathology.
I haven't personally developed
much of a presence on there at all,
but I do think it is a really good option
that a lot of the younger
generation is using
in order to communicate
about medical specialties.
Another good option is the podcast,
just like you're doing, Dr. Kreuter,
it's a great way to get your message out,
to chat with people, to let
them know that you're there
and you're available and
you're interested in educating
and you wanna spread that love
of your subspecialty to them.
I think that's a great way to do it,
and it's easy for people to download
and listen to on their commute,
or while they're cleaning out
the garage or doing chores.
Really a very user-friendly platform
in order to get your message out as well.
- Do you think, I'm curious,
do you think that by,
I guess to give you,
as a little background of this question,
I kind of sometimes think about
the criticism that maybe social media,
things are changing, and so,
why spend time on, like you mentioned,
Twitter as a platform.
'Cause, you know, maybe
you develop something,
you work at something,
and then maybe somebody buys Twitter
and shuts it down or
something, I don't know.
And it goes away,
right, it's not a space
that we own, right?
But I've always kinda looked at it as,
maybe that by engaging
with these platforms,
there's other skills
that we are developing.
Does, and it's okay to say no, but,
does that resonate with you, and if so,
what skills do you think
that you can walk away from this with,
what skills have this
been helping with for you?
- I think that's a really
insightful point, actually,
because you're right,
we don't own this space,
and we don't own the
content that goes out there,
but we do have very lasting experiences
that can come from it.
So we develop relationships with people,
at different institutions,
with other pathologists,
with even sometimes patients
who reach out to you,
and bare their life story
and say "What do I do?"
And you can develop a
relationship with that person
and really just be there as
a support system for them
while they search out their medical care
and their treatment strategies.
Additionally, that educational piece
is something that you will never lose.
So, I really don't think I,
I'm definitely not successful yet,
to put quotations around that
for our listening audience.
My measure of success will
be when I have a student
who saw or heard me speak about something
and comes back to me later and says,
"I fell in love with this
"because I heard your passion for it,
"and this is what I learned from it,
"and then I just wanted
to pick up that mantle
"and run with it."
And that, I think,
would be a really,
really incredible moment,
because that's something
that I really hope
to be able to pass on,
just that love of
cardiovascular pathology,
what it means to our patients,
what it means to their family members,
and how we can positively impact patients
by really being careful,
and being able to communicate
what we're seeing
underneath that microscope.
- So I've got one last question,
and this is maybe now shooting
for the more experienced of
listeners in social media,
to kinda put somethin' for them out there.
You know, you really certainly have built
a strong social media presence,
you've mentioned the
platforms that you're on,
you host your own podcast.
You've really accomplished a lot here,
and I'm curious, what's next for you?
And maybe this can be a,
what challenge do you
wanna throw out there
for the experienced social media person?
- Oh boy, that is a tough one.
I think I'm just going to continue
trying to spread that
message, to really be able to,
as I mentioned, be able
to instill that love,
and in some degree of our
audience that we interact with,
whether it's a listening
audience or a viewing audience.
And people don't have
to fall in love with it,
they don't have to go into
cardiovascular pathology.
But if they understand the tenets of it
and really understand
where that passion lies
and how to triage specimens,
understand the impact
that what they say has to our patients,
that's where it's all at for me,
and that's where I really hope
that, as my career continues,
that people can take that away
from what I'm trying to stand up and shout
from my different platforms,
that we can really have a
positive impact on patient care
by understanding and
embracing the subspecialty.
- We've been rounding with Dr. Bois,
thank you for taking the time
to talk about social media with us.
- Thanks so much, Dr.
Kreuter, it's been so fun.
- (chuckles) To all of our listeners,
thank you for joining us today,
we invite you to share your
thoughts and suggestions
via email, please direct any suggestions
to mcleducation@mayo.edu,
and reference this podcast.
If you've enjoyed Lab
Medicine Rounds Podcast,
please subscribe.
And until our next rounds together,
we encourage you to continue
to connect lab medicine
and the clinical practice
through insightful conversations.
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