Heidi [00:00:00]:
What do you do when a brand says you're too expensive, but you know you are the right person for the gig? That's exactly what happened to Alison Pickthorn, a fast track turbo student of mine. So she and I hopped on a 1 on 1 strategy session, something only available to my turbo students, and we talked through what to do. There was a really big project on the line, and not only did she really want it, she knew she could do an exceptional job for them. We went through multiple strategies, and spoiler alert, the one we landed on got her the gig. It wound up being a $15,000 design project and an amazing client. We will share that story in another episode, but for now, let's get to it. Okay. Tell me about your opportunity.
Heidi [00:00:36]:
This is exciting. I wanna hear all the details about your call and everything.
Allison Picktorn [00:00:40]:
Yeah. It's super exciting. So, yeah, this guy, Ben, he posted on LinkedIn, looking for kids and baby freelance designer. What stuck out to me is I said he wants someone with commercial experience. So at least, you know, speaks to the big box retailers. So, yeah, I messaged him. Of course, there's a ton of people on there that were like, contact me. I'll send you my details.
Heidi [00:01:09]:
Interested. Interested. Interested. I'm like I'm I know.
Allison Picktorn [00:01:13]:
Every time I see that, I'm like, all you have
Heidi [00:01:16]:
to do is get
Allison Picktorn [00:01:17]:
a reply. Just send him a message.
Heidi [00:01:20]:
Yeah.
Allison Picktorn [00:01:20]:
Yeah. Anyway Yeah. So I saw it like a week later after it was posted. So I was like, oh, you know, might be late to the party, but here's my info. Oh, okay. He so, yeah, a week later after that, he contacted me, and said and and the ad said looking for someone to do a, capsule, need to know how to do color palettes, mood, trend. So, yeah, he contacted me 2 days ago, said he was interested in chatting. We had a Zoom call yesterday morning.
Allison Picktorn [00:01:53]:
Right. And yeah. So he he's working, I think, almost as a, I think he was originally working with this manufacturer on the men's side, but he's a kind of connected. I think he's kind of acting as an agent for them and helping them drum up more business. And then the hilarious thing is it's it's a manufacturer in India. He's located in London. But this company said they're, they do a lot of business with Hannah Anderson, which is right in my backyard, practically, which I know very well. So, so, he said they do a big business with Hannah Anderson.
Allison Picktorn [00:02:35]:
There's a lot of retailers now are are looking for cocreation, vendor designs, moving away from in house design. And Hannah has been asking them for more of that to be able to just kind of pick off their line. And he said they just don't they don't have those capabilities. He said when they have break, not up to date. Mhmm. So he really wants to help them kind of get their kids and baby business up and running.
Heidi [00:03:04]:
Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:03:05]:
So he's looking for someone who can kind of, first of all, create a line collection that with Hannah Anderson in mind that they could just kind of purchase off, you know, the line. In addition to creating kids and baby collections that can bring in new clients. Okay. And kind of sounds like have that ongoing. He said he'd like to have a collection by August. For Hannah, he also is thinking that he would like to set up with magic or other shows to kind of, like, showcase as well. Sure. So Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:03:46]:
Overall, I mean, we had a really great conversation. I was like, yep. I totally get it. Like, you know, this makes sense. So many retailers are doing this way. Oh, yeah. Overall, it just seemed like it was a really good conversation. And but then when it came to money, of course, you know, like, he's like, oh, great.
Allison Picktorn [00:04:07]:
This all sounds great. And then he's like, you know, what what are your fees? They said, well, it sounds like it would be project based would be best for this. Mhmm. But he he had originally said, you know, I'd like to maybe do just a small, like, day rate project just to make sure we're on the same page. So, yep, sounds great. Project base was probably be best, but as far as for the small project, we could do hourly for that. If you're just looking for, like, kind of a pull together some some quick ideas. And I said, my rate for that's 1.25, an hour.
Allison Picktorn [00:04:40]:
And he was like, that's okay. You know, that's more on the high end and budgets really you know, budgets really kinda keep it in mind, and I'm like, great. Yep. I said, so what is your budget? He said, it's up to me, really. Okay. So I said, well, with that, I said, you know, I we could say if I were to just say, like, let's cap it at 5 hours. Because the other thing he said, he's like, so I don't care if it takes you 2 hours or 20 hours. It's about output for me.
Allison Picktorn [00:05:13]:
So I'm like, great. That sounds great for a project based. Mhmm. And then let's just put a cap on, let's say, 5 hours. Like, we I can charge rate of 5 hours
Heidi [00:05:23]:
and then,
Allison Picktorn [00:05:23]:
you know, put together something. And then from there, if we wanna move forward, I'll put together a proposal for, you know, what we want.
Heidi [00:05:33]:
Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:05:34]:
So it would then he was like, okay. No. Sounds good. Yeah. I need to talk to my partners in India and, you know, the, you know, the 2 or 3 days I'll be back to you. And that's when I'm like, 2 or like, he was so urgent and now
Heidi [00:05:45]:
it's 2 or 3 days.
Allison Picktorn [00:05:49]:
And then he actually contacted me again this morning and said it was great to chat. He said, one day, I forgot to ask, what are you currently doing for Columbia? So it because he just it shows that I'm working freelance for Columbia.
Heidi [00:06:03]:
On LinkedIn. Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:06:05]:
Yeah. So I just told him I'm working part time, working in men's and women's. It offers me ability to take on kids and baby project work that I wanna, you know, be moving forward. So that's that's that's all of
Heidi [00:06:19]:
it. Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:06:20]:
But I yeah. I'm definitely, like, what can I do to try to secure it?
Heidi [00:06:24]:
Yeah. So I have some ideas for sure. So, has he like, he he's well aware of your commercial experience. Like, I guess, I would wanna know he's well aware of your very high level of qualifications that match their needs. Did you talk any more in-depth about, like, what exactly they're looking for and then how you align with that?
Allison Picktorn [00:06:47]:
I talked about, like, how I totally understand the market, how the, you know, the vendors, what he's talking about with the vendors capability. You just wanna make it easy for them. You wanna be able to pick up the line. He's like, yes. Completely. I said, you know, I know working with vendors, what they show, sometimes it's just kinda not not up to date. Kind of like what I call grandma bait. So I was at least kind of showing him I understand, like, the direction he's talking about.
Allison Picktorn [00:07:17]:
Okay. In talking about Hannah Anderson, he was saying the other thing I brought up, I said, you know, I'm not a graphic designer, but I have 2 graphic designers I've worked with that are super great with that are available that I can bring on to create original artwork. And then he was like, yeah. I don't know what Hannah does with that. I bet they buy most of it. And I said, well, actually, a coworker, a friend of mine, actually just got hired as the senior, graphic designer there. So I couldn't get some information.
Heidi [00:07:48]:
Yeah. Because they're in house and they know.
Allison Picktorn [00:07:50]:
So yeah. Yeah. So, that's kind of yes. But he knows my background as far as my resume and the extensive experience I have.
Heidi [00:07:58]:
And has he seen your does he see you showed in your portfolio with some stuff that kind of lines up?
Allison Picktorn [00:08:04]:
Yes. I sent him a link to my portfolio. I assume he had looked at it.
Heidi [00:08:08]:
So did you happen to ask, have they tried to, like, hire somebody for this role before? Or what have they tried to do to solve this problem? Like, they have this need where they're these brands wanna just buy off the line. Like, what have they done? Is it just doing stuff in house? Like, kind of throwing some stuff together or they worked with a freelancer before? Like
Allison Picktorn [00:08:31]:
I didn't ask that. Just Yeah. The vibe I was getting was that the manufacturer has had some things, but they're getting requests for to show stuff, and they just don't have anything to show.
Heidi [00:08:46]:
Okay. So totally fair. It's always a great question to ask because you wanna learn, like, what have you tried before and what has or hasn't worked. Like, maybe they tried to hire a freelancer before and something went south or whatever. And so you just always wanna be mindful of, like, what attempts they've made. So then you can be really mindful to do the complete opposite of the thing that failed for them. Like, you already know, like, where they're where they're maybe sensitive or where they're a little bit nervous or where they've been scarred in the past. Right? Mhmm.
Heidi [00:09:17]:
But it sounds like you're right. They, like, like, we haven't tried anything. So my two ideas, one would be, like, what could you bust out in an hour? Mhmm. Or maybe even 2 to, like, give him a teaser. Like, I think I think this sounds like an amazing gig and something that would be, like, ongoing. I think it is more than worth it to, like, to put something together and just say like, hey, you know, I can't stop thinking about our conversation and I I I know I'm a great match for you. I wanted to just show you really quickly of some stuff I can do to show you that we're on the right path and further this conversation. So I spent an hour maybe you even spend 2 you're gonna say, I spent an hour, like, just make it real casual.
Heidi [00:09:59]:
Like, I didn't spend 5 hours on this. Right? And wanted to send this over to show you some ideas specifically for Hannah Anderson, but that could also parlay into brand. Like, I think you could you could pitch it in a really great way. You could pitch it like I think these are great ideas for Hannah Anderson, but also would line up with this brand and this brand and this brand, which then is showing that you know here's this aesthetic and I are I'm so familiar with this market that I know it couldn't match for these other brands as well. So, like, if Hannah doesn't take some of these, I even know, like, what other brands you could go after with this because that's how intimate of a knowledge I have with the market. Yeah. So that would be the first thing. And then the second thing, since you got a strong reaction on the price, you could come back and you could do either and or both of these things.
Heidi [00:10:52]:
You could come back and you could say, hey. You know, I I really pride myself on being, exceptional at what I do, and and I've done this for a really long time. I know this market really well. And there's a reason my hourly rate is what it is, and it's because I do tend to be fast and I do tend to be able to excel at my work just because of my breadth of experience. So that's why the rate is so high. You know, so so if there were a long term collaboration and we worked project based, it would be a win win for both of us. However, I understand that the 125 lands a little bit high for you at the moment. So what I would love to do to make this trial project a success and to show you what I'm capable of is offer you, you know, the 5 hours at a 100 an hour.
Heidi [00:11:42]:
So for $500 investment, which is as opposed to 625, not a huge difference, but you're giving them something. Like, whenever there's resistance on the price, you can always come in with this, like, trial project idea. Right? And so the idea is, you know what? Let me do you a favor, and I'll drop this down for this specific project. And then assuming everybody's happy, we can go forward and we can talk about project rates, which, again, like I said, will be a win win because I'm really good at what I do, and there's a reason why my hourly is 125. Because what I can get done in an hour and the knowledge that I have is worth that. Right? Mhmm. So I would kinda pitch it that angle and and offer that trial price. And and I don't think it would be, a bad idea to do both of those things in one email.
Heidi [00:12:37]:
Okay. That's great. What are what are your thoughts on that?
Allison Picktorn [00:12:45]:
I I feel good about that, especially if we were then to go into project based because I think given what he's talking about, it's a you know, that's that's kind of a big meaty project, that I don't feel like I'm gonna get shortchanged on whatever pricing I put together for the project. Mhmm. I would say it would be a bit, like, 125 for someone that I have as much experience as I have and who sounds like pretty much like what he's looking for. So, like, to be on that is kind of a little shitty. You know? But
Heidi [00:13:25]:
It is. I know. And, you know, whenever I that's in my experience, that's always how it is when it comes from the factory side. Yeah. I mean, they're located in India. Like, the price rate, the the exchange, the the money, that's a very different amount of money. If you don't wanna buckle on the price, then don't buckle on the price. Yeah.
Heidi [00:13:49]:
Yeah. For sure.
Allison Picktorn [00:13:50]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:13:50]:
For sure. Just lead with the value. Be like, fuck you. I can do this. Here's let me just prove it to you. And the price is what the price is. You can hold that line. Do you know if they've I mean, it's interesting, like, a whole week after the LinkedIn post.
Heidi [00:14:08]:
That's telling me that they're not finding someone else. Do you know if they talk to other people or where they're at?
Allison Picktorn [00:14:14]:
That's what I am feeling like. I I think he has definitely talked to other people. And so that's where I was wondering, like, oh, does he have a couple more people he wants to talk to before, moving forward? Even in his email, his message this morning, he was, like, great to talk to you. Let me say it's a great talk to you. Great to speak yesterday. Allow me a few days to work out next steps. Okay. One one thing I forgot to ask was, do you work with Columbia? What do you do for that? Okay.
Heidi [00:14:51]:
So you could also leave the pricing open and say, a, I I think we have really great rapport, and I I feel more than confident that I am the person you're looking for. And I know I can do a great job for you guys. I wanted to show you quickly what I can do. So I'd spend an hour and put this project together. You know, I know the the price might have landed on the high side for you. And I'm I'm not here to justify, you know, my rate. But if that's a sticking point for you, I have some ideas how we can make that work. So I'd love the opportunity to further further the conversation.
Heidi [00:15:41]:
Like, the the trial rate works really well, but I know, like, Allison Heineys, she never does trial rate anymore. And she gets kicked back on her prices sometimes, and she's always able to work it out by saying, well, great. Let's split it into 3 payments or let's, you know, start with one style at a time or something like that. So there's really no way to do that with the 1 the 5 hour project. You're gonna be like, oh, you pay me 200, whatever. Right?
Allison Picktorn [00:16:06]:
That's not gonna work. Problem if you have to split.
Heidi [00:16:09]:
But Let's do a $125 a week for the month.
Allison Picktorn [00:16:14]:
You know, so I think doing I think, like you said, putting pulling together something in a couple of hours, I think I could send that and be like, if you want to continue with a small project and explore this, you know, build this out a little bit more, I'm happy to do that for, you know, rate of $100 an hour to build this out or, you know, or we can continue move forward with talking about project rate. Because I feel like if I'm gonna do put something together, that will help them to decide yay or nay. You know?
Heidi [00:16:47]:
I mean, that might even be enough at that point, to be honest Yeah. For them to be like, oh, okay. Actually, wow. She's amazing. Like, let's just move forward. Yeah. I I think that I I think it's gonna depend on how it's written. I mean, if it was a voice to voice, it would be, do you think you could, I think that if you like, part of me really wants you to have the opportunity to well, you really shouldn't have to.
Heidi [00:17:38]:
Like, ex like, quickly in one sentence explain you know, there's a reason why the price is 1.25. Yeah. You can hire somebody for 50 or 75, but there's there's a reason why the price is what it is. But then I'm also like, you should have to justify your price, and he knows your breadth of experience and what you're capable of. And so maybe, you know, and I was like, that would be much better done in a voice to voice conversation. Just say something of that flavor in a voice to voice versus in an email. But maybe you don't even do that. Maybe you either just go directly to saying, like, you know, if I if you feel like I'm on the right path with this quick project I just did as a favor, just to show you what I can do, then, you know, we can we can talk about proceeding with the the small 5 hour project or, you know, if price on that is although I'm like, what's the difference between 625 and 500? Like, come on.
Allison Picktorn [00:18:39]:
Well and if that's if that's gonna be okay, I'd show them something I can do, then I'm like, I can do it for 500. Then he's like, great. Let's move forward the project. Well, then that's 1,000. So, like, you know, I
Heidi [00:18:51]:
Right. Right.
Allison Picktorn [00:18:52]:
It's maybe doom speeding in the wrong way, versus doing the quick project and just I don't know. I feel like maybe just let it speak for itself. And then he'll be like, you know what? Yes.
Heidi [00:19:04]:
I'm the
Allison Picktorn [00:19:04]:
person I want and we'll figure it out.
Heidi [00:19:06]:
And she took the initiative to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you start with that? Okay. I would like buzz that out ASAP. Absolutely.
Allison Picktorn [00:19:17]:
Yeah. I would love
Heidi [00:19:17]:
He's in London, so it's nighttime there. But, like, if you could get it done I know it's earlier and they'd be like, you get it done today and then have it in his inbox first thing tomorrow. And then hopefully get a call, like, even as soon as tomorrow afternoon or Monday, once he talks to the partners in India, I think that would be amazing.
Allison Picktorn [00:19:39]:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I will do I will do that if I'm able to get it, you know, whatever I'm able to get done. I will see if I can grab you, like, send you, like, my email that, you know, kind of
Heidi [00:19:57]:
Just email to me and then I'll take a look. Yeah. Totally. I'm happy to do it. I'm totally happy to do it. Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:20:05]:
I don't know. So with this and I keep trying to tell myself, like, stop getting excited when one person reaches out to you. I know. I know. But this being said, I mean, this is like, this is what I want to be doing. Like, just even what he's talking about, is like being able to build collection, work on trend, be independent on it, and be able to sell ideas versus, you know, kind of like in the box of this is exactly what we need to do.
Heidi [00:20:42]:
Into the brand. Right.
Allison Picktorn [00:20:44]:
Yeah. This just feels right to me. Like, in just, like, thinking about it. I'm like, if this were to turn into something to be able to, you know, create a commercial modern collections that don't necessarily need to be, you know, under a specific brand, but to help sell, you know, their cocreation, I think would be awesome.
Heidi [00:21:10]:
Yeah. I mean, maybe this is like an angle to go after where you start connecting and talking to factories and you're like, hey, I know I know for a fact all these brands are looking for more of this co creation model and buying off the line. And I know, like, you already know how their pain points are like and then and then the stuff tends to be dated and you don't have anybody in house to do this and da da da. Like, you already arguably, that was a tremendously valuable customer research conversation you had just in terms of Yeah. Understanding where they're at with this type of business model, that you can directly parlay into conversations with other factories. Yeah. Are you I mean, because I mean, I'm sure you know factories. You could kick start some conversations that way through some of your network.
Heidi [00:21:56]:
It's interesting. I mean, it's obviously, it's still baby and kids, but it's not the compliance direction we have been chatting about, which is fine. It doesn't mean that it's totally true either.
Allison Picktorn [00:22:07]:
But Yeah. Yeah. I think they're both viable. Plus whatever happens, this, guy, Ben, he because he kept going, like, I know nothing about kids and baby. He started working with them on men's and sustainable.
Heidi [00:22:21]:
Okay.
Allison Picktorn [00:22:22]:
And so he's like, I yeah, I don't know anything on this end. So he could be just a really good contact on just like Totally. Finding other factories or, like, you know, okay. Didn't for this, but, you know, easier things. So
Heidi [00:22:39]:
I I'm gonna leave it up to you. You are obviously the CEO of your business. I if I am when I'm hiring for answers and I have a call with someone and I maybe get, like, a little visual sticker shock when they tell me the price. Mhmm. I from a client's perspective, I appreciate when there is some further acknowledgment of that. Yeah. You know? So I I I think at least me if it were me, I would at least leave it open with, like, I know my price I I know my price landed on the high side as you told me. I appreciate that honesty and feedback.
Heidi [00:23:41]:
I know I can do a great job for you guys as in this sample project I just put together. So, you know, if price is the only sticking point, like, let's let's at least give us both the opportunity to further this conversation and see what we can make work.
Allison Picktorn [00:23:58]:
So
Heidi [00:23:58]:
you're not saying I'm gonna lower my price. You're not saying I'll do it for a 100 on I'll save you a $125 on a stupid trial project. But, like, I think just acknowledging that, just it shows a level of, like, sensitivity towards where they're coming from in their budget. And, you know, they are a factory out of India. It doesn't mean they don't have a lot of money because sometimes they really do. But but I I think there's almost like a just a level of disrespect to address that one more time. I I feel. But you go with what you feel in your gut.
Allison Picktorn [00:24:38]:
No. I I I totally agree. I I don't think it's just
Heidi [00:24:41]:
you, like, really want this. Like, I think this would be a great gig. If you're liking, like, whatever, but I don't know. If it were me and I really wanted it, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna at least I'm gonna at least, like, address the elephant in the room right now.
Allison Picktorn [00:24:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. And he even when he said, oh, you know, that's on the high end. And I and I said, well, let's how about we, like, cap it at 5 hours? He said in response, he's like, oh, I appreciate that. Like like, he Versus an 8 hour day. Yeah. Yeah. Which, like you said, it it's, like, he obviously was responsive to me acknowledging it.
Allison Picktorn [00:25:16]:
So I think I mentioned it again as a good call.
Heidi [00:25:19]:
I think so. Yeah. And not throwing out the the $100 an hour, but more like I'm happy to talk with you guys on, like, a higher level for pricing to make this work. Because at this point, it likely is not about the 500 versus 625 for a trial project. They're more maybe nervous about the bigger project as a whole. And this guy,
Allison Picktorn [00:25:37]:
I mean, he's, you know, he's not part of the India factory. He he seems very savvy. He seems like he understands quality versus, you know price. And it he I yeah, this seems like he's trying to build his business and and value to them. So that's what makes me it it doesn't feel as like, what's the the garmento janky as the other couple conversations I've had, you know, like, doesn't feel as slick as Yeah. And so Okay.
Heidi [00:26:13]:
Okay. Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you drop up the email, put a put a little project together. I'm happy to look at the project too, but that's really that's more of your business than mine. Yeah.
Heidi [00:26:28]:
But I can definitely take a look at the email And, yeah. Okay. This is exciting. I hope so.
Allison Picktorn [00:26:37]:
I mean, it just yeah. It feels I was saying, like, if if it were to pan out, it would be a very busy summer because I still would be keeping Columbia going. You know? It's not something I can back out of. But No. But you've It it
Heidi [00:26:50]:
find a time. Yeah.
Allison Picktorn [00:26:52]:
I I think it just it sounds right.