What makes a legend? Is it the weight of history, the whispers of truth passed down through generations? Or is it something more ephemeral—an idea, a story, a narrative so compelling that it becomes real in the telling?
Ocean Murff and Jim Pullen set out on an odyssey of their own, peeling back the layers of myth and spectacle surrounding Hidalgo, the 2004 film that dares to ask whether a man and his horse can outrun not just their rivals, but their own pasts. At first glance, Hidalgo is a sports movie—an underdog story set against the backdrop of a 3,000-mile endurance race across the Arabian desert. But is that all it is? Or is it something stranger, something more elusive?
Frank T. Hopkins, as the film would have you believe, was a legend—part cowboy, part Lakota warrior, a man who rode his mustang into history. But reality, as Ocean and Jim discover, is far messier. What if the race never happened? What if the stories were never more than stories? What if, in the grand tradition of American myth-making, Frank Hopkins was less a historical figure and more a talented fabulist, a man who understood that the right story, told the right way, could become indistinguishable from truth?
This episode is about a film. But it’s also about the nature of belief. It’s about why we cling to legends even when the facts refuse to cooperate. It’s about what happens when a lie is so beautifully constructed that we want—desperately—to believe in it anyway.
Because Hidalgo isn’t just the name of a horse. It’s an idea. And ideas, as history has shown us time and again, can be more powerful than reality itself.
--- Learn more about supporting this podcast by becoming a member. It's just $5/month or $55/year. Visit our website to learn more.
Chapters
What makes a legend? Is it the weight of history, the whispers of truth passed down through generations? Or is it something more ephemeral—an idea, a story, a narrative so compelling that it becomes real in the telling?
Ocean Murff and Jim Pullen set out on an odyssey of their own, peeling back the layers of myth and spectacle surrounding Hidalgo, the 2004 film that dares to ask whether a man and his horse can outrun not just their rivals, but their own pasts. At first glance, Hidalgo is a sports movie—an underdog story set against the backdrop of a 3,000-mile endurance race across the Arabian desert. But is that all it is? Or is it something stranger, something more elusive?
Frank T. Hopkins, as the film would have you believe, was a legend—part cowboy, part Lakota warrior, a man who rode his mustang into history. But reality, as Ocean and Jim discover, is far messier. What if the race never happened? What if the stories were never more than stories? What if, in the grand tradition of American myth-making, Frank Hopkins was less a historical figure and more a talented fabulist, a man who understood that the right story, told the right way, could become indistinguishable from truth?
This episode is about a film. But it’s also about the nature of belief. It’s about why we cling to legends even when the facts refuse to cooperate. It’s about what happens when a lie is so beautifully constructed that we want—desperately—to believe in it anyway.
Because Hidalgo isn’t just the name of a horse. It’s an idea. And ideas, as history has shown us time and again, can be more powerful than reality itself.
--- Learn more about supporting this podcast by becoming a member. It's just $5/month or $55/year. Visit our website to learn more.
What is The Adrian Moment?
The crowd roars. The impossible shot sinks through the net as the buzzer sounds. We live for these epic sports moments on the big screen—even if we've never laced up cleats or set foot on a field.
Why do sports films captivate us? How do they speak to the competitor deep inside? Can a great sports flick make you fall in love with a game you never cared for?
Join lifelong friends and film fanatics Ocean Murff and Jim Pullen as they go deep into the psychology, storytelling, and raw emotional power of the greatest sports movies ever made.
Laugh and cry with them as they re-live the agonizing defeats, underdog triumphs, coaching miracles, and adrenaline-soaked championship glory only the big screen can deliver. From tales of individual perseverance to the bonds of teamwork, Ocean and Jim break down just how sports films distill the human experience like no other genre.
Strap in for a cinematic thrill ride covering everything from boxing to baseball, hockey to horse racing. You'll never see sports—or sports movies—the same way again. The whistle blows on The Adrian Moment.
Ocean Murff:
Hello world, welcome to the Adrian moment on truestory.fm. I'm Ocean And I'm joined as always by my partner in sports movies dissection, Jim Pullen. What's going on, Ocean? Well, you know, I'm living the dream. I'm going away from my typical comparison of the two of us that I've been doing lately, because I couldn't decide in the movie we're talking about which one of us was Frank Hopkins and which one of us was Hidalgo.
Ocean Murff:
And so, therefore, I decided Who? Oh my god. Exactly. Yeah. So, I decided to not do that.
Ocean Murff:
And I think that this movie is really a departure for us as far as what we normally talk about is how sports movies are structured. Most of our movies involve a team or an athlete that's going to persevere and work through a thing and then go to a single event. I think that the interesting thing for me with this movie was that it doesn't feel that same way. It is much more of an adventure movie, and it's one those things where I think that people would have to kind of bear with us for a bit for us to explain, well, this is how this is a sports movie. Because of the event that occurs, this event that occurs in the movie, the main thing happened over the course of really the last half, it feels more like you're just going through an adventure versus you're experiencing a sporting event.
Ocean Murff:
To not bury the lead, the movie that I'm talking about is Hidalgo.
Jim Pullen:
My father was a cavalry scout, and he fell in love with the Chief's daughter, Mariner. I was never really sure where I belonged. Sometimes I think the only one I can count on is Hidalgo. Condemn me proud, partner. Frank Hopkins and Hidalgo are legends.
Jim Pullen:
They've never lost a long distance race.
Ocean Murff:
Perhaps you have never heard of the great ocean of fire, a 3,000 mile race across the Arabian Desert.
Jim Pullen:
We're betting on the last American cowboy. You think we got one more in us?
Ocean Murff:
I'm greatly pleased that you've accepted my challenge. What breed is your stud?
Jim Pullen:
My dog was a mustang. Mustang?
Ocean Murff:
Also the red Indian, small mixed blood.
Jim Pullen:
Mixed. Mustangs don't belong in races with thoroughbreds. You can say anything you want about me. I might have to ask you not to talk about my horse that way.
Ocean Murff:
Maybe we should give you a head start.
Jim Pullen:
I'm not here to insult anybody, sir. Call us. I'm just here to race. Touchstone Pictures presents.
Ocean Murff:
Your horse is too small. This land is too dangerous. You are gambling with your very life.
Jim Pullen:
The incredible true story of a man who went halfway around the world to find himself.
Ocean Murff:
The Indians of the West, have you seen their vanishing kind? I am their kind. And the
Jim Pullen:
friendship that inspired a legend.
Ocean Murff:
Hidalgo is the one who believes in you. But can you believe in yourself? Hidalgo.
Jim Pullen:
What? I didn't get you into this. You got me into it.
Ocean Murff:
The thing about this movie, why I thought it was different, why I thought it was an interesting thing to talk about in the context of a sports movie is the the crux of this movie is a 3,000 mile long race through the Arabian Desert. It starts in Saudi Arabia and I believe it goes through Iraq and it ends on don't remember the name of the sea it ends on. The race itself, because it's 3,000 miles long, is in fact a horse race. So effectively, would be analogous to the Ford versus Ferrari where they are endurance racers, but they are just doing it on horses instead of in a car. And it's set in 1890, so the horses make more sense than if it were set in 1990, then you'd like, well, why don't you just drive?
Ocean Murff:
Because the movie is structured this way, it doesn't have that feeling of, okay, well, here's the big race or finale or thing at the end. It has much more feeling of you're going through the going through the race through most of the movie. And so, think that it still though, to me, this qualifies as a sports movie because, A, I was actually surprised that I liked it as much as I did. And B, is because, well, horseracing is horseracing. If we were talking about a Kentucky Derby movie, no one would be having an argument.
Ocean Murff:
I think it's interesting to discuss how an adventure movie can actually be a sports movie. So, what was your what did
Speaker 3:
you think of this movie? First of all, you captured it amazingly well. I'll be honest. I went into this movie when I saw it on our list and we agreed to do it. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna like it.
Speaker 3:
One, it's PG 13. It's Disney. You know, I'm just
Ocean Murff:
like Yes.
Speaker 3:
Man, I just I don't think I'm really gonna enjoy this. And then I see that it's like two hours and fifteen minutes or sixteen minutes or something that just irks me. I don't know why. Just like the two hour movies, I just like, oh, man. And I know it's, like, more of a standard now, but and I and I get over myself, and it's okay.
Speaker 3:
I end up liking it. But this movie, yeah, I was I was, like, really shocked as I'm sitting there watching it, how much I was enjoying the story that was being presented to me and the thought and the aspect of a 3,000 mile race on a horse in the middle of a desert just was just like I don't know. It was just blowing my my mind, and it was bonkers to me that I'm sitting there watching it and enjoying it. And then I was like, man, this has got a really good adventure feel as you're saying. And then I was like, this kinda got an Indiana Jones vibe to it.
Speaker 3:
Really? Yeah. So then I'm digging into it and the director
Ocean Murff:
Like, the first Indiana Jones or, like, the most recent ones?
Speaker 3:
No. Like, the yeah. Like, some of the initials. Okay.
Ocean Murff:
So so the good ones.
Speaker 3:
Right. The good ones.
Ocean Murff:
Okay. Right.
Speaker 3:
You know? And the I mean, the director is tied to those. So, I mean, it was is he? I believe he is. So, I mean, it was like
Ocean Murff:
Right. If if not, we're just saying it. We don't need backs.
Speaker 3:
But, I mean, it it to me, it felt it felt like that structure. Like, some of the music during, like, some of the the more adventurous scenes was akin to me as to, like, an Indiana Jones type story and, like, trumpets were, you know, of the orchestra. And I don't know. I was just I I was just really digging it and just really enjoying it and and was extremely surprised how much I was sitting there just, like, probably a big smile on my face enjoying enjoying a movie. And it's it felt like it's been a while that I've sat down and just, like, enjoyed something from beginning to end.
Speaker 3:
And I enjoyed it because of all these little encounters that he was coming across, you know, in in
Ocean Murff:
the race. Which one stands
Speaker 3:
out to you? Well, I mean, there were there were many. But, you know, I to get kind of right into it, like, how he helped save the Sheikh's daughter. It's all of the crap that he was dealing with in so this is, like, the middle of the race. Right?
Speaker 3:
It it is.
Ocean Murff:
It is after the first leg of the race and then Right. But before the second.
Speaker 3:
Yes. Yes. So so that aspect of everything that was leading into that where, you know, he's the infidel. Right? And it's already assumed that, you know, he's the horrible person that that he is because he's an infidel.
Speaker 3:
And then he's caught in a situation where it looks like, you know, he's the the bad guy or the typical man just trying to, you know, get a little piece of some woman action, and he was looked like he was taking his daughter into a tense situation, and that's not what the situation was. She was there.
Ocean Murff:
You know? Oh, you mean when she goes into his tent?
Speaker 3:
Right. Right.
Ocean Murff:
Right? Okay. Yeah. So yeah. Well, he's he's very chased throughout this movie.
Speaker 3:
Well, yes. Very much so. You know, you have all of that that is leading into she gets taken and then he's able to prove to the sheikh that they all like, hey. Look. I can I'm gonna go and get her.
Speaker 3:
I'm gonna go all cowboy, and I can I'm gonna go and get her. And he gives he gives him that deadline. Like, you can you can go and do this.
Ocean Murff:
But you kept the deadline was one day.
Speaker 3:
One day. Yeah. It was the day of Yeah. But before sundown. Right?
Ocean Murff:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You haven't, like, till sundown tomorrow. And I was like, wow.
Ocean Murff:
Way to give me a lot of time to work at this work out this problem.
Speaker 3:
Right. But, you know, to be able to to be able to be a cowboy and be able to go and do that and then, you know, show the adversity of, like, look. I'm here. I'm not here for all these purposes that you're putting upon me, which, you know, you just continues. He and his horse face all these various adversities throughout the movie, and it's it's one of these encounters to show he's the good person that he is being portrayed with his with his horse.
Speaker 3:
There's he's his purpose is to be a good person and to make sure that, everybody's in good nature and in good spirits. And, you know what? I mean, he's just a good guy. He's just there to help and and show, like, hey. I'm not the bad guy that you think that I am.
Speaker 3:
I liked I liked that that whole connection between the adversities that he was facing in that camp and how he he was an infidel throughout throughout the race and all that. And then, you know, the Sheikh is there to there to to to
Ocean Murff:
make amends with him after he brings his his daughter. Daughter. There is of course the part of where his motivation of doing that was because the sheikh was going to castrate him. He was like, well, I'd like to not have that happen. How about I go get your kidnapped daughter instead and we call it even?
Ocean Murff:
Right. While I do agree with that as far as the little things, I think that there is part of it where, really just to step back and talk about this movie, I think you have to talk about it somewhat chronologically in terms of how they set the stakes. I think that that is a great example of what the adventure in the middle is and kind of where that adventure in the middle does muddy this being a sports movie. The the adventure in the middle and then the beginning. The beginning of him taking the orders for Wounded Knee, the Wounded Knee Massacre, which we will get to that, the depiction of that along with various other things later on in our bonus episode, which is about the veracity of the truthfulness of this movie.
Ocean Murff:
The first thing the movie says is it's based on a true story. So we're going to talk a bit about where truth and fiction lie in this movie. After he gives the orders and then they and Masqueror Wounded knee happens and he has the regret. He has that that period of time where he's in the Buffalo Bill the wild is it the Buffalo Bill show? I I don't I don't remember the full name of the show, but it was the Buffalo Bill show.
Ocean Murff:
And so when he's in that show, and there he is basically just working for the working for a living, hating himself, really kind of reenacting that, which is which was an interesting way of self flagellation on his part where he effectively is reenacting a scene that he knows how it went. He knows it went differently. He's doing it for entertainment, and it's as as if he's doing it because he hates himself. The initiating event is when Aziz comes from Saudi Arabia and demands that they change the name, or least the moniker that he is the world's greatest distance horse racer.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Ocean Murff:
And they have to change the moniker or they need to pay a thousand dollars for him to enter this race, which Yeah. This is $18.90. So a thousand dollars is a lot of money.
Speaker 3:
Scratch.
Ocean Murff:
It is. It is. And so then it so that they has to do that in order to they have to decide. And what they seem to come up with was was the the the people in the show put the money together, and then he then is going to then enter into this race. Then they have some small stuff here and there, which we can talk about the trip, but that doesn't let's just skip over that for now.
Ocean Murff:
But then when he gets to the the race itself, the first part of it is about how daunting it is. It is a 3,000 mile horse race. And so for, you know, for context, you're going across The United States, you're really going across the back half of the way, still cover 3,000 miles on a horse. So this is a this is a long endurance race and it takes us definitely a special kind of not only rider as far as how you ride the horse, but also just how you manage terrain and distance and food, water, and all this other stuff about that you need to keep the horse alive and keep you alive through the trip. And so the first leg was already described as how people fell out of it and died.
Ocean Murff:
Forty riders start and like twenty nine of them died. Died or dropped out or didn't make it or whatever. Like, you only Right.
Speaker 3:
And the shake himself, he's like, I had five sons and three died under ace alone. You know?
Ocean Murff:
Exactly. So he's doing that that first part, and that was really the the really the first part of where we see our hero here is that he is able to then persevere through not only the adversity that he's dealing with, there's prejudice against him because he's an infidel And there's prejudice against his horse because there are other horses are thoroughbreds and his his horse is a is a non purebred Mustang. That they have no business being in this race and that they should then just, you know, quit and go home. And that the other racers view it as an affront. And and that part to me, I don't know if you felt this as well, but that part to me is, well, that's a lot of sports movies.
Ocean Murff:
There's always a sports movie where the outcast kid who's a little bit different Yes. Isn't really accepted and is told, hey, why don't you quit? Because you're not doing things the way that we do it.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. No. There's so many sport movies that have that that temper around it. You know? Like, even one of my all time favorites, Sam Lott.
Speaker 3:
It it's the same it's the same thing.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. You know I've never seen the Sam Lott.
Speaker 3:
Okay. That's going on the list. Alright. So it there's I mean, there's that in that movie. And then, I mean, there's there's everything.
Speaker 3:
I mean, just I mean, Miracle. Right? Yes. We did we did Miracle not too long ago. That's the same it's the same it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:
It's a bunch of guys that aren't the best players. They're not the top NHL guys. They they weren't they weren't NHL guys, and you were putting them in front of the world. Like, how could you do that? You know?
Speaker 3:
It was like, they they was the best of what they needed for that moment. And, yeah, the Dahlgos, same thing. Like, nobody all the adversity and all the doubt that they face that you can't do this. You and your pony express don't belong here. It's a yeah.
Speaker 3:
It's a it's a classic sports movie against that kind of little guy adversity. Oh, just to actually put a button pin on a
Ocean Murff:
couple of things we talked about. So a thousand dollars in 1890 is $34,648 today. And you are correct. The director of this, Joe Johnson, he did do our direction and visual effects on the Raiders of the Lost Art. So we have not made up a fact.
Ocean Murff:
Alright. Alright. Was in fact tied to the Indiana Jones.
Speaker 3:
I thought I saw I couldn't find it in my note. Thank you for checking.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. Absolutely. Real time fact checking here on the Adrian moment. I like to think of this more as a sports movie and straight ahead as far as he is an endurance horse racer who is then dealing with the bigotry of the people around him to then try to overcome them and be accepted and be the the best racer. But there is also the part of it, the early stakes of the the lady Anne Davenport who has basically bet, I think, 40% of her fortune that her horse is gonna come in first.
Ocean Murff:
And if she if their horse does, then she does she makes a whole bunch of money. And if she if the horse doesn't, then she gets wiped out. The prince who is engaged to Sheikh goodness. Well, Sheikh Rai I cannot I can never really pronounce this name. It's Sheikh Riyadh, r I y a b h, Riyadh.
Ocean Murff:
I'm not really sure how to pronounce it, which it was played by Omar Sharif, honestly, this is the first movie that I've really ever seen with Omar Sharif that I'm aware of. And yes, I recognize Omar Sharif was a big deal for Low in Turf Arabia. I had not seen Low in Turf Arabia, so don't get upset about that, but that's the deal. And when I saw this movie, I looked like, this guy is amazing. He should be in more movies.
Ocean Murff:
Unfortunately, he that's not gonna happen since he is not alive anymore. But at the same time, there's like was like, he was great. I wanted him in Gladiator. I wanted him in a lot of movies. I was like, well, we could have cast him in a lot of things.
Ocean Murff:
And so there was a Prince, Ben Al Rey, who was engaged, promised to be well, Jazeera was promised to him to be his fifth wife, which is like, well, I mean, it's your fifth wife. So like, you know, how serious are we taking this?
Speaker 3:
I mean, could be Friday.
Ocean Murff:
Wait, it's like, you're my fifth wife. It's like, it's like, look, you know, if I were to be with a different wife each weekend, I only, I only be with you like three times a year, because only five Saturdays, you know, like, that only happens, you know. So I was like, yeah, you you just cut them on the side. And so that so she promised to be his fifth wife and he was riding the shakes horse and, you know, the all the destruction of the culture around that and that that is kind of the that is the the table stakes of where all of this is set that that all of that is happening independent of him. And inside of all of this intrigue or drama or different stakes, you insert the this American cowboy on his mustache that is multi it's a multi colored mustang and then they're like, well, what what what is this?
Ocean Murff:
You know, what's what's this infidel cowboy coming in trying to race with the with this? And so, I think that that is not only the the the regular fish out of water that you have from a lot of sports movies, but also an interesting, you know, commentary just on, on bigotry, right? Or not bigotry or prejudice where you're, you're judging someone based on the, the characteristics that you know, that that you've been told and not anything about the person themselves or anything that they themselves had done. It was just they they did not meet whatever the standard was that was in your head. And I I thought that was an interesting thing that was portrayed in this movie to start it out and the the absolute belief that he would not make it through the first leg of the race.
Speaker 3:
Right. Yeah. And there's a lot of judging in this movie too. And showing us how this continues to be a sports movie with the various adversities that he's dealing with. You know?
Speaker 3:
Like, I was I was taking notes on it, and I was creating a list of all the various adversities. And for this particular sport, you know, you're dealing with all of the different like, the it's a foreign land to the guy. Right? It's it's the heat, the lack of water, and and each sport has, like, all these different adversities as well. But, I mean, it it gets even further insane.
Speaker 3:
I mean, it's like, what sport is out there that you have to worry about, like, I don't know, quicksand. You know?
Ocean Murff:
Not enough of them. I'm saying that right now. No. I think quicksand should be thrown into a lot of things. Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
They should you just throw that in a football. Just like, you know, every now and like, some random place in the field, there's like a there's a yard line where it's like, well, this yard line is quicksand. So
Speaker 3:
Maybe the XFL could take that up.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It'd be another rule change
Speaker 3:
for the NFL to think about later. Exactly. Like, you know, I mean, it was like
Ocean Murff:
I know that we're talking here that, yeah,
Speaker 3:
this is definitely a a sport movie, but I I don't know. Just all the different adversities that he has to deal with on this race just continues to prove just how insane the idea of a 3,000 mile race is. This just blows me.
Ocean Murff:
It does. And and I guess the and signaling the one thing with the first leg, which the it was just the adversity that I thought was the most interesting to me is you're overcoming not only the fact that you don't know the terrain, you don't know the area, you don't know the weather, you don't know a whole lot of things. You're just kinda following along.
Speaker 3:
Did he show some math? Like, how does he know? Like, sorry. Sorry. I just, like, I have no idea.
Speaker 3:
Like, it was bonkers, like, when I was watching it. I'm like, how the hell do you navigate this? Other than the hoof prints in front of you and then the yeah. And then the swimsuit happened.
Ocean Murff:
Like, you're screwed now. Exactly. And that was the one I wanted to talk about was the sandstorm. Yes. And that the that, well, first off, when the sandstorm comes up and happens, you're like, okay, we got problems now.
Ocean Murff:
But his ability to identify that it's a sandstorm, because, you know, the part of it is when you watch a lot of times when you watch movies, I find that you start thinking about things in terms of modern times. And while I have never seen a stand, a sandstorm in real life, I know what it is. And I know what it is, I know how it's gonna work, I know what it's gonna do, and I know like if you come around, that you should seek shelter to, you know, to then try to try to not get the entire effects of the sandstorm. But it is interesting to me that in 1890, news didn't travel like this. So Right.
Ocean Murff:
Effectively, the desert is doing a thing that he would have thought up to that moment is impossible for a desert to do because effectively, a sairstone looks like a big wave.
Speaker 3:
Right.
Ocean Murff:
Right. And so so he's like, well, I'm not in water. And while he may, because of the boat and everything that understand what a wave is, you know, look at that, but he the the desert is now doing something that he would be like, this is not possible. And that he was able to then figure out in that moment, split second hand, I need to race as fast as I can to this to this to this building, which he had to then try to trust was going to stand. Right.
Ocean Murff:
If I didn't know what a sandstorm was and I saw it for the first time and I started racing to the building, it's really at that point more of a thing of where it's like, well, I might as well because otherwise I'm just gonna lay here and die because I I don't think the building is gonna survive that thing.
Speaker 3:
No. I I agree. I but I I thought about the same thing. Right? I was like, man.
Speaker 3:
You know, he's probably never seen anything like this. But I think the only thing that he may have seen in any of the races across America or any of the deliveries of a letter that he potentially was authored or asked to do or given money to do is the the monsoons in Arizona and Utah and and and and around that area. When when the monsoon breaks down, there is a wave effect that you can watch come towards you and you can feel the pressure that when the monsoon breaks down
Ocean Murff:
I may not be understanding what a monsoon is. When you say a monsoon, I'm thinking of water.
Speaker 3:
No. It's it is. It's a body of water. Yes. But as the storm breaks down, it puts so much pressure that it does lift up dust from from the desert floor, and it's a wave of dust and a wave of water that comes at you.
Speaker 3:
It's it's absolutely insane. When we lived there, was it was crazy. You could see it hit as the storm broke down. You could watch this wave of dust and grossness come at you. Okay.
Speaker 3:
Followed by with rain as well. It's it's insane. So they I'm just saying that I think it's it's entirely entirely possible that he has encountered something like that. Okay. That he's seen a monsoon.
Speaker 3:
But it's vastly it's way different though.
Ocean Murff:
Okay. Well, look, you're giving that is that is an extra level of credit because the tornado was the closest thing I could think of to it. But, yeah, if a monsoon was closer, I had not even thought of a monsoon. And and now that I'm looking at what it is, it's like, yeah, don't wanna be a part of a monsoon.
Speaker 3:
Monsoons? I mean, they're they're pretty cool. Some some of the more destructive ones are are obviously not cool. But, yeah, we've been in some when we lived down in Arizona for a short little while, we've been in some that, like, your pool is crystal clear and beautiful, and then a monsoon comes in, and it looks like a mud bath. Like, it is just it's absolutely disgusting.
Ocean Murff:
Oh, just kicked up all the dust and dirt and everything and dumped it into the bowl.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. Because because the way that the monsoon, it, like, lifts the air up off the desert floor and it brings up all of for the most part, like, the air impurities, but also, the desert floor. So it picks up a lot of dust. And then it draw as the when the storm breaks down, it's like a thunderstorm. But the way it breaks down is different than a thunderstorm, the way that it breaks itself down.
Speaker 3:
So the cell breaks as it creates, and then it puts all this bomb force energy into the air, and then it distributes air and water with when the cell breaks down. So read up it's crazy. Okay. And and if if you're in Arizona, you know, free feel free to fill us in on some more information. I I know I'm not saying all the right things.
Speaker 3:
There's a crazy, like, scientific name for it. It sounds like Beelzebub, but it's not Beelzebub. That's how I just remember it in my head. But it's a it's a Habib. That's what it is.
Speaker 3:
It's a Habib. It's a
Ocean Murff:
You went from Habib to Beelzebub. That those are two very different needs.
Speaker 3:
And I know. Yeah. I know. But it's like Habib. It's It's it's I might not be saying it right, but that's like the technical term of the storm, and and it's the way that it it it yeah.
Speaker 3:
Anyways, we can move on.
Ocean Murff:
But it's cool.
Speaker 3:
Gotta you gotta take a look at some
Ocean Murff:
the videos of monsoons. Alright. I will have to do that then. That was your meteor ology minute brought to you by the Adria moment. Alright.
Ocean Murff:
So then Bong. Okay. Bong. Yeah. The the as far as with the movie goes on, the the ability to navigate and do the same swim, I found that to be impressive and then that was the main thing as far as the getting to the first leg that he did.
Ocean Murff:
Then that brings us to the adventure you talked about as far as saving the daughter. And also, I think the most poignant part of where the movie delves a bit more into him as a person, in terms of, he he is half Lakota, half European American Right. That he seems to be going through, well not seems to be, he definitely is going through a lot of self hate about that because of what happened to Wounded Knee and his role in it, even though his role was just delivering the orders, is, it's not nothing, but it's not like, you know, he didn't mow them all down with his muskets. So there's that, but he's going through a lot of self hate because he didn't do anything that could have changed things there, which maybe, maybe he could have, maybe he couldn't have, we'll never know. So the relationship between he and Jazir, where they're both, they are in cultures that define their them certain ways, and they have personalities that conflict with that, and that they are trying to figure out how they can be themselves in the cultures that they live in.
Ocean Murff:
Because interestingly, Jazeera would probably live a more accepted life and a more a life closer to what she wanted if she were in America. And Right. Intro and also, I think there is an aspect of where he he would live the life closer to what he wanted if he was in Saudi Arabia. Oh, what? Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
There's I I think so. You think? Yeah. I do. Because effectively, the one part of the the the theme throughout this movie is about how the this Saudi Arabia least the the section he's dealing with in Saudi Arabian culture is a horse culture.
Ocean Murff:
Native Americans are a horse culture. And so that that he really was finding that, like, his way and the way he wanted to be and the life that he wanted to live was more there. Now, true, he his the character's understanding and treatment of women is far more modern than what we think of as the average American male in 1890. But at the same time, with that aside, it is still that the culture and how things were and what he could do and what he could be and who he could be seemed to fit better for him had he lived in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 3:
I had never thought that, Osh. That's wow. No. That I I wish I had a good rebuttal for that. Like, no.
Speaker 3:
I can't see that. I I mean, only thing that I could not see that's that isn't a parallel in his life in The Americas versus there is just the way that he would treat a woman versus the way that that Yes. Absolutely. That he would be, you know, pressured culturally. But I I think he being the person that he would, I think he would stand up and probably break down the barriers or whatever in the local region that he was to live there in
Ocean Murff:
the Arabic country. But I think he'd break down the barriers insofar as he would treat women the way he feels they should be treated. Right. He wouldn't change the culture. Like, else would still do whatever they do.
Ocean Murff:
He would just be like, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 3:
Right. Right. And I think and then I think his equal peers would that wouldn't be willing to see him as an infidel would be willing to be like, okay. Like, if my woman fell down and he was nearby, you could extend a hand to lift her up where, you know, he was trying to do that earlier to the shake's daughter, and she was like, oh, no. Can't touch me.
Speaker 3:
Like, I think in his in his local region, he that would be acceptable because, you know, he's not
Ocean Murff:
an infidel and his peers in that situation if he was to be there. Well, he'd still be an infidel because all all infidel means is you don't you haven't accepted Muslim. You don't believe in Allah.
Speaker 3:
Right. So you
Ocean Murff:
have to He'd he'd he'd be always be that.
Speaker 3:
And the sheikh the sheikh forgave him. So since the sheikh forgave him and no longer call him infidel, nobody would care.
Ocean Murff:
Well, the Sheik forgave If it
Speaker 3:
all means it takes one
Ocean Murff:
to accept him. The Sheik forgave him insofar as that, which would which okay. So, let's jump ahead of that. That scene isn't about the Sheik forgiving him. The Sheik was just allowing himself to understand and treat him as a human.
Ocean Murff:
The sheikh already knew that whole, I can't touch an infield or I can't predict the future. He knows he can't do that. He knows that's all myth. That's all just legend and lore. And so he just fed into it because it helped him out because he thought people that do not believe the way he believes are lesser.
Ocean Murff:
And so therefore, could then treat them as such, and that is fine. And in this instance, he found someone that he that he decided to judge on his actions and what he had done. And so he was able to accept them. And so then he just shook his hand. But that that's really all that was.
Ocean Murff:
It it didn't have to do with the fact that he's not an infidel. They, even in the moment, he says, Well, what about shaking the hand of an infidel? Won't that make it where you can't predict the future? And he's like, Well, if I could predict the future, I would have bet on a painted, on a, oh, is that, a painted horse?
Speaker 3:
I would have painted, on a painted horse, yeah.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. Know, so yeah. So then, because of that, that tells me that it was really more about breaking down the barriers of the prejudice, not breaking down the barriers of the fact that we have different religious beliefs. There there that was gonna be maintained.
Speaker 3:
Okay. True. Alright. No. That very good point.
Speaker 3:
I was just using that as a celebratory moment for if, you know, his peers given the hype that the idea of him moving there and being in that in that environment and in that culture that because the shake and the shaking of the hand, the shaking of the shake's hand.
Ocean Murff:
That's a lot of shaking in that sentence.
Speaker 3:
It is. You said shake eight times. The shaking of the shake's hand.
Ocean Murff:
Here we go. Here's worse. Your sentence is very shaky. Oh. Yes.
Ocean Murff:
Your sentence is very shaky. Yes. You you you you're welcome, America. Yeah. Thank you.
Ocean Murff:
Anyways Let's talk about this for a second. So I feel I feel that now we have preambled for about fifteen minutes in Gone on the Turgeon to get back to, okay, so they have the adventure with Jazeera. They now he now understands the different politics around with Khatib. Khatib is the nephew that wants to be, that wants to own the Sheikh's horses to be the horse breeder. He's had his experience with Sakir, I think it's Sakir, it's s a k r is how it's spelled.
Ocean Murff:
I believe that's pronounced Sakir because otherwise it's Saka, which I don't think is right. And honestly, Saker with that Hawk was awesome. The Hawk was great. And so The was awesome. And so he had, he's had, you know, all that.
Ocean Murff:
And so, from this point, he's gone through the first half, he's unsafe, he understands the situation, and then now he's moved on to the second leg. And, and what I think was interesting too about the second leg was that in this moment, I he has some self doubt. He has some self doubt in terms of whether or not, a, not only could he finish the race the second leg, but also, b, he didn't like how Hidalgo's hooves looked because Hidalgo already gone through the first leg, which they know for they never say how far the first leg is, but if you just imagine halfway, that means Hidalgo done at 15,000 1,500 miles, like 1,500 miles. That's a long way.
Speaker 3:
Do you think some of the incentive though for looking at his feet and all that was because of the 30,000 that shake was offering him? You mean no. No.
Ocean Murff:
The 30,000 was from Lady at Davenport to drop out.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. That's what I meant. Yeah. From Lady. Like, he's like, well, you know because I was wondering.
Speaker 3:
I was like, is if all all the races that he's won, collectively, is it 30,000? I mean, like, what's the to me, 30 I'd take 30,000 right now if I could win a race. Sure. I don't I don't think I would quit in the middle of a race, but for for the 30,000. But to me, it was like, okay.
Speaker 3:
What's making him reconsider? Is it the money, or is it the things that she was saying in that point in time to look at his horse's legs? I I don't know. It is an interesting thing of where the 30,000 does allow you to
Ocean Murff:
say that he's not been he's he is he is unimpeachable. It cannot be bought because $30,000 then is a million today. That's not that is not a small sum of money. When you think about it, it is not a small sum of money to take to not race. Because she was gonna pay him a million dollars to do nothing.
Ocean Murff:
Stop. Yeah. So so to be a be driven in this way of where you want to complete this race and you want to do this thing and you want to accomplish this and you want to win because he wants to win. He Absolutely. He's very low key throughout the whole movie, but he wants to win.
Ocean Murff:
And so He's
Speaker 3:
a competitor, man.
Ocean Murff:
He is. He is. And so to then say, but wait, I'm turning down a million dollars because a million dollars, that's life changing money. Yeah. To turn that down to just continue on to a race where at the end of the race, you're not getting that much money.
Speaker 3:
It was a hundred thousand purse.
Ocean Murff:
Was it a hundred thousand dollar purse? It was
Speaker 3:
a hundred thousand a hundred thousand dollar purse.
Ocean Murff:
Oh. I I well, I guess, yeah. If I you know what? I guess now that you say that, I guess if you win it, then, yeah, you do get that because a hundred thousand now well, that's 3,400,000.0. So Right.
Ocean Murff:
Guess he was betting on himself, which
Speaker 3:
You I never I never got the impression though that he was really in it for the money until that moment because I that's why I was like, you know, he he never, like to your point. Right? You didn't even know that the purse was a hundred thousand. And it's because, I mean, visually, I don't feel like we it was, like, pounded in us that the purse, the whole purpose for some of these people of this race is to be able to prove you're you're thoroughbred and to be able to get that hundred thousand and that to be able to say, I I did this race. But for him, I don't I don't necessarily think that it's that's his driving point.
Speaker 3:
It's because everybody's telling him, you can't do this and your your horse isn't gonna be capable of winning it.
Ocean Murff:
You know? Yeah. And they kinda all shocks him where he's like, he's like this whole, I'm just a racer, man.
Speaker 3:
Right. I like that. I like that. Just awe shocks him. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
They totally do that to him. Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
The thing too, when I I think about to kinda circling back around what I was saying the first half of the if you assume that it was 1,500 miles, it's basically then to provide perspective, when I looked up the size of The United States, the 3,000 mile race would be going from one end to the other and then another 200 miles east to west. But north to south, it's only six to 50. So basically, it'd be like if you're north to south, the northernmost point of The United States, the southernmost point of The United States, that's the first leg that he completed. And so, and I really was just saying that just to, just to kind of get an idea of the scale of what that really means in terms of what, how long they're racing. And so when they get to the second race, I think the other part with the, with the horse, he's doubting himself.
Ocean Murff:
He's, he's doubting the horse because the horse hooves a look good. And then they have the moment where Hidalgo frees himself and is staying at the, at the starting line for the second leg, then looking back at him like, all right, let's go. And and that kinda gives him the extra push up. Okay. Well, the horse wants to do it, so I'm gonna do it.
Ocean Murff:
So let's go.
Speaker 3:
I wanted to get up and go like,
Ocean Murff:
yeah, let's go. Like, how could
Speaker 3:
you not? The horse is riding there. And he's looking back over his shoulder like, dude, you're get on or what? Because I'll run this myself.
Ocean Murff:
The horse was basically questioning his manhood and being like, are we doing this or not? You know? So so then yeah. Which was which was a great theme. And look, the movie is a straight ahead adventure movie.
Ocean Murff:
It is a great honestly, I think it's a great family movie. It's a great family It's a straight ahead adventure movie. And in that moment, I was like, I cannot believe I'm having a little bit of an emotional reaction to to this movie. Like, that that moment, I was like, oh, that was it was it was sweet and inspiring all at the same time, man. And this is not at all what I expected to happen with this movie.
Speaker 3:
%. Yeah. No. The way that it grabs you, maybe it's the story. Maybe it's the adventure.
Speaker 3:
It's the you think, oh, wow. You nobody's gonna be able to do this. And then you see how he's just, like, continually pursuing and moving forward and stepping over every little every little roadblock that is in his way. And he's sitting there thinking and saying out loud, he's done. And Yeah.
Speaker 3:
His horse is like, no, man. I understand you 100%. I ain't done. Right. Don't count me out.
Ocean Murff:
Right. We're doing this.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. It's just it's, it's almost like a Rudy moment. You know?
Speaker 3:
Not not to say that that it's a similar, but I mean, it's it's like that the way that that first time that anybody's watching Rudy and, like, you know, he's get he gets that call out there. It's like that it's that energy and that charge and that, wow, man. Yeah. Let's get on that horse, dude. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Let's do this. Like, who's who's slapping you on the ass? You gotta slap the horse on the ass. Who's slapping you
Ocean Murff:
on the ass and get up there? Hurry up.
Speaker 3:
Horse of
Ocean Murff:
horse of ass slapping aside. So then when they continued the second rate the second part, the the the other things of that where I felt was interesting was not only did the the rescuing of Jazeera helped them in terms of understanding that locusts were not a plague because that whole locust swarm thing was like, okay, you're just gonna, I guess, I don't know, die in this, I don't know. And then that, you know, that they weren't a plague, but then also how the various aspects of getting to the second leg. And so I guess my question for you was this, I'll I'll ask you first before I give you my opinion is, what did you think of the second leg? Because because by this point, he's done the first leg, just finishing was a was the reward and the winning.
Ocean Murff:
He's gone through the, you know, the dealt with bigotry and people not like not liking him. And he's also dealt with that he saved the daughter. So when the second leg happens, like so what did you think of how they handled the second leg?
Speaker 3:
At this point in time, we're pretty deep into the movie. So I mean, they could have stretched the movie a little bit longer and showed us more because I I don't think that we really get to see a whole lot more from the second leg. You know, you're sitting there and you're dealing with that horrible heat and the ocean, and then and then, of course, you know, his horse. But but, I mean, it's, like, leading into to all that. I feel like if we're keeping it, 1,500 was the first half and the second half is the 1,500.
Speaker 3:
So we're guessing. And if we go from where we left off to where his horse is falling over and he's contemplating, you know, him. End. Right? And, you know, and he's really dealing with that whole thought process of like, yeah, you know, I can't I can't put this on my horse anymore.
Speaker 3:
You know, it's like there's not a whole lot in between.
Ocean Murff:
Well, I guess I guess I guess there is. I guess I'll have to I'll have push back a little bit there with that. There is. Because the between the second leg, the second leg is when Khatib and his raiders then attack them again. It is when they create the trap that Harlow Shadaglia, where when he has a trap, we fall
Speaker 3:
down and spikes There's that.
Ocean Murff:
And does that. And then Wait. And then also, Frank does the thing which is is it one of those weird expected, not expected things where he just kills a team where you're like, oh, I didn't realize you just murdered people. But okay. Right.
Ocean Murff:
You know? But okay. But he he he did.
Speaker 3:
He rest your horse.
Ocean Murff:
He rest horse. Horse. He's gotta die. I get it. Right.
Ocean Murff:
I'm gonna go with that.
Speaker 3:
And But but in respect of the race in 1,500 miles, everything that you just said, that implies, like, you're racing and doing this all at the same time. Right? They don't win towards the the end state. Nope. So, I mean, like, from the race perspective, I'm not seeing a whole lot other than to me, this is an implied storyline that something happened, and they're still able to continue to move forward with the 1,500.
Speaker 3:
I mean, I enjoy it. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely enjoyed it. And I'm not I'm nitpicky right now because I'm like,
Ocean Murff:
well, I didn't see a mile marker and that you know? And then all of a sudden, this this storyline happened. Yeah. Did highway signs?
Speaker 3:
Right. Exactly. So, I mean, I I get that, and I and I thought it was still a great story. But from the second half, yeah, I'm I guess I guess I kinda jumped the gun and forgot about the whole pit and the the raid and all that stuff. Because I just to me, it's just it was just part of a really good part of the story.
Speaker 3:
I even forgot that it was part of the second half because it's just the action just continues to happen. There's always something that wraps you up. And, you know, when he and his horse fall into that trap and his horse gets hurt, you know, mean, like, yeah, I'm getting kind of teary eyed because I'm like Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
Thought I thought the horse was dead. That was like, there's no way the horses live and do that. Yeah. Thought the horse is dead. They're rescued by Saqir and so Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I should get his name.
Ocean Murff:
Honestly, part of the second handout, just glossed over Saqir going into the quicksand and it needed to be saved and what he did. Yeah. And then the whole like, I'll save you and then you can do what you want afterwards, which Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Let's talk about that
Ocean Murff:
because Yeah. My initial at that scene, so he saves him and pulls him out of the quicksand. So Hopkins pulls him out. And then the last thing you see Sa'Keer say is, Give me my sword. And at that moment, I thought, oh, Sa'Keer committed suicide.
Ocean Murff:
I I did not think that he'll because the whole like, you can't help me, you can't help the race, it is the will of Allah that I would die. And then, of course, the the other side of it where Hopkins believes that his horse, that Saqir's horse came and found them to then save Saqir. And I keep calling Saqir, and I'm just assuming that's how the name is pronounced. We'll go with it. And so you have the two different perspectives of what that moment is, but then at the end of it, I I thought that Sekir killed himself.
Ocean Murff:
So I was surprised when I saw Sekir was still alive to pull Hidalgo out of the pit.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing that out of respect to the race and the laws and the rules of the race, which we're only introduced into what I feel like maybe two or three of them. I feel like there's probably, like, a laundry list of, like, some of them. Sure there
Ocean Murff:
are plenty.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. You know? So that's probably, like, a whole another movie within itself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I was I was left with the same impression that he committed suicide with his sword because the the way of the laws of this race. That was one thing I wanted to talk about. Like, what's the possibility of all the other rules with you on that? And I'm glad that you brought it up. And and also, I thought I don't know.
Speaker 3:
I thought it was kinda beautiful that his horse went to go and seek Frank. Like Yeah. Like, because and to me, it's, you know, it's it's because of his his Indian blood and the fact that, you know, he's he's of the horse people, and it's almost like the horse knew it. You don't know? So I don't know.
Speaker 3:
I just thought it was kind of like a touching, beautiful moment.
Ocean Murff:
I guess at the end of the day, if you're attributing that to the horse, I
Speaker 3:
think the horse
Ocean Murff:
would have done it because he was like, well, you're an infidel and you're not beholden to these rules. So you will help him. And I think of that. Oh, deeper.
Speaker 3:
I like the idea of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
If you're attributing, if you attribute that to the horse, you know, because there is an aspect of where we want to attribute that to the horse, that the horse was actually seeking him out versus the horse is just wandering around and they just happen to cover stumble across them. You know, pick your poison at what happened. Either way, if if the horse did, I think the horse would have sought him out because he's the only other racer that would have helped. Any other racer would have let him die. But wouldn't you have wanted to help him, not only because he
Speaker 3:
was an infidel, but because he was Indian descent of the horse people?
Ocean Murff:
No, I think that's a cultural thing. They, they, I don't, I don't think that being Native American versus being Saudi Arabian as far as when you're comparing which culture is more horse driven, especially at this time, or which was more horse bound, think that's all the same. I think the big difference is that his, in effect, his American side was like, well, I wouldn't let you die. Fine beating you in a race, and that's all good. And I'm a % over with that.
Ocean Murff:
If there's some advantage I can create for me or a disadvantage for you that will mean I win the race, I'm on board. But I'm not gonna let you die. Whereas in the Saudi Arabian culture, it's like, no, no, no. You're just gonna die.
Speaker 3:
That's your fate. Sorry. Exactly.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. Allah Allah Allah said you were gonna die. Deuces.
Speaker 3:
Right. But and yeah. Which is back to that line that he said. He's like, you know, whatever I do whatever you do after I pull you out, that's on you, buddy. You know?
Speaker 3:
Exactly.
Ocean Murff:
Which is why I thought he committed suicide. I was very surprised that he was there to pull them out. This movie constantly surprised me. This movie, I thought was I was with you. I was like, when I saw the trailer, I was like, alright.
Ocean Murff:
Do this. I know it was my idea. And I was like, this movie is probably not gonna be any good and we're gonna talk about it, like we're gonna bash it. And I was like, nope, I like this, I like this. Even that moment, I'm kinda like, no, I'm digging it.
Ocean Murff:
There was so much about this movie that I liked. I like the idea that he killed himself And all of a sudden, all of a does support that he didn't, but you know, fine. He had to save horse. Okay. He had to save a doggo.
Ocean Murff:
I'm fine with that. Because anything that saves a doggo, I'm gonna blow it. Right. But but it was it was another aspect of this movie where this movie was consistently surprising me that I liked it because there's so much about this movie I should hate. And I I just and what I mean by that is like just the the whole, which really you opened with, the Disney the Disney PG 13 adventure, whatever movie, you know.
Ocean Murff:
If you wanted to, you could argue a little mixture of some white savior in here. And it's like, yeah, actually hate all of this. And it's like, no, this movie is great. And so, so we're moving on from that. He was about to kill Hidalgo because Hidalgo got exhausted.
Ocean Murff:
They ate some locusts and he was exhausted and fell out. And then he was going to kill Hidalgo, but then he had the the Native American vision thing where he saw which turned out to be his mother or other ancestors or whatever and then didn't kill Hidalgo and then Hidalgo got up and they realized they were near the end and then they finished the race and went. And so that part was honestly the only part of the movie where I was like, okay, I understand why this is happening, but I was like, yeah, well, just, you know, get up and win the race. Like, I don't know that I need the whole, you have a vision of your ancestors, and then try to come to grips with who you are with that because I don't feel that going through the rest of the movie, I don't feel that there was a real transformation as much as a convenient point of where the ancestry, the ancestral blood of Native American to be had in him helped him to this moment, but it didn't necessarily change that much about who he was as a person. Now that we're talking about it, I yeah.
Speaker 3:
I completely understand where you're at with that. My thought now that I'm thinking about it is that in that moment, sure, we could have gone ahead and seen his horse get up again, move on and like, yay, stuck in charge. For the character building, it's it's almost needed so that he can continue to move on. I think there's just I think there's, I think for him, it's like a his character, it's for him to spiritually be able to move on and is the helping obviously, the helping drive for for the finish of the race. But it it's almost like they're symbiotic together and symbolized his end of everything that he was harboring and dealing with because of what he felt he could have done in the in the massacre.
Speaker 3:
I don't know. To me, sure. Visually, did we did we need to see it? I think we do because it does connect him back to him, and and he asked for help. Right?
Speaker 3:
And he had he had no other help that he could deal with or look for at that point in time. Nobody's around him. Right? So now he's following now he's falling to his spiritual side, which is his his Indian ancestry side. So now he's now he's calling out for help for that, you know, and then together because or not because of his chance, you know, his his horse is is lifted up and are able to move on.
Speaker 3:
And I think I think it just symbolizes the the ability for him to be able to be like even though they don't go over it throughout the movie, he's thinking about what is going on and what has transpired in his past and what and who he is. And now it's almost like he's reached out for the help. The horse has gotten up, and it's symbolic as, okay. You know what? We've had another situation.
Speaker 3:
We've had another issue, and I'm I'm going to rely on the last leg that I have, which is my spirituality side, and seek one last help. And he receives whatever help he needs in that moment. We visually see it how we see it in the movie, but I think the character receives what he needs and Hidalgo receives what he needs to and it's just a rest. It's good rest and they lift up and they move on. And I think it just connects everything, the spiritual aspects of what he's struggling with with his ancestry and everything that he could have or could not have.
Speaker 3:
Jeez. Can you imagine what the man has been thinking about all on his own for 3,000 miles? I mean, like, the torture that's going on in the mizmates head. You know? And it's so I don't know.
Speaker 3:
To me, it's like, it just wraps it all up. Like, that's in my head. It would just wrap up everything, and it would just put that the dot and the t dotted and crossed, and I can pick up and move forward and then visually we see them they're picked up and they're moving forward in their race.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah, that's great. It definitely hit me differently but honestly your version I think is better than mine. So at the end of it, there is, he wins, so Hidalgo gets up, wins the race because Hidalgo wins a sprint. They win the race, they go to the ocean, they jump around in the water for a bit and everything and then he goes and gets his money which is the equivalent of 3 and a half million dollars, goes back to The States and then buys the Mustangs, frees them
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
And then lets Hidalgo go. I found myself interestingly surprised that Hidalgo would go with the ball between them, I was surprised he went. But then also, it is like a moment of, this was the horse that I had at this time. He was special to me. He was a legend.
Ocean Murff:
He was a legend as far as distance horse racing. And what he wanted his distance horse racing was done. Like, the Hooves were already halfway through the last race. He was like, No, he's done. And so that, in a sense, it was like, Here is your retirement present to to be able to then run run free with your brethren.
Ocean Murff:
It's like you're in
Speaker 3:
my head. So it's kinda creepy because that's exactly what I was going along with. I to me, it was that that retie it was a retirement scene. It was you have served your purpose with me. We were buddies.
Speaker 3:
We were into it together. We understood each other, and I'm freeing everybody else. And, you know, I'm gonna leave it up to you. You could be free with everybody else or you can still be with me. I took it as when Hidalgo looked back at him and a couple of more times and was running off and kinda bucket around before he joined up with the group.
Speaker 3:
I I took it and literally in my head at that moment was like, yeah, it's like his, it's his retirement send off. I don't necessarily know what the time period was on that, you know, like, in Frank's life. The how old Frank was? Yeah. Like, how old Frank was and how old the horse was.
Speaker 3:
You know? Because, I mean, I I was thinking, like, yeah, this horse has only got a few more years left in it after all the
Ocean Murff:
They never after
Speaker 3:
all these races.
Ocean Murff:
Right. They never really explain how old Hidalgo is. They do you know, there's a part of it where you see Frank, so you assume I assume he's somewhere in his forties, like like mid thirties or early forties during this entire movie, and that's just that's just my assumption. And all of this would have happened, what, a year or two after. That's what I'm kinda thinking too.
Ocean Murff:
When Hidalgo looked back, I read it more as a thank you. You know, like, thank you for letting me go. Thank you for this wonderful adventure we've had together as a team. It's been great. I love you, but I'm out.
Ocean Murff:
I'm gonna go get
Speaker 3:
my stud on because, you know, these horses have heard
Ocean Murff:
what I've done. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. There there's some fresh fillies up in here, I'm a get a hold of that. You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3:
You know? No. And I I don't know. I just I I know I enjoyed that last that last scene. For me, it was it it it seemed like spiritually for Frank, it was like, you know, the exclamation mark to his closure of everything that he's been dealing with.
Speaker 3:
You know? It was like, if I couldn't free my Indian culture and my my my Indian counterparts and peers because unfortunately they were all slaughtered, I could at least free their spirits. Their, you know, their spirits being all the mustangs. Yeah. I just I don't know.
Speaker 3:
I just I enjoyed that scene and to think like, wow. You know? Then I was wondering like, well, how much do you have to pay the government that was rounding all of them up and paying people to kill them?
Ocean Murff:
Not 3,400,000.0. I'm a tell you right now. I bet you Yeah, wasn't my It was like a thousand. Like, it probably wasn't that much. It was like yeah.
Ocean Murff:
So if he won a hundred thousand dollars, I bet he paid maybe $2,000 for those horses. It's not it wouldn't you know, those things wouldn't have been 3.4 You know, the I think the last thing I wanna say, which is definitely just a whole different perspective on the whole thing was, I think the actual hero of this movie, and honestly, the focal point of this movie, is Hidalgo the horse. The name of the movie is Hidalgo. So then that should tell you right there that it we're talking about the horse. And and here is why I I think that.
Ocean Murff:
So let me let me let me run down for you my bullet points of where I think You would Yeah. Why I think that this movie was really just was about Hidalgo. One, he doesn't feel this the self doubt and anger and hatred of Baragas Frog, what happened with Wounded Dee. He feels that they should have done more, but they didn't. He then sticks around with his friend throughout while he's doing self hating in the Wild Bill Wild Bill show where he's like, no, I can be better, I can be bigger, and I can do all these amazing things, but I'm not.
Ocean Murff:
I am not bowed, I am not defeated even though we are here. I'm trying to help you get through this. Then he goes to the bigotry and hatred because he's a he's a he's an impure horse. And then he successfully gets to the first leg of the race, which knowethide does. Then he's allowed to rest for a bit.
Ocean Murff:
And then he has a mini adventure for rescuing Jazir from Katib because there are aspects of that where the horse has a lot of things which are interesting in this in that in that whole little vignette of a lot of independence. He unties himself from the the post. He he helps, you know, he lets Jazier bride about that and then he catches Frank Hopkins on the way on the way out and everything and he gets out in time with and honestly, he's running so fast. He's running fast with two people on his back and he's still able to make it. He is tired and he is hurt and his hooves are worn down, but he's gonna finish this race.
Ocean Murff:
And honestly, in this movie, he has the age where the he is being doubted about being able to finish this race by Frank and he gets on that finish line and he's like, we're gonna do this. Right? And from that moment on, Frank decides, alright, I'm a believe in you too. And that is actually where the the hero Hidalgo was given not I don't know if this permission is the right word, but permission, acceptance or availability or ability, whatever you wanna call it, to then do and continue the thing he wants to do because Hidalgo's gonna win this race. He gets injured in an attack by Khatib, and then he goes further than thought possible in the second leg of the race.
Ocean Murff:
He eats some locusts. He's exhausted. He's almost killed by his friend. He gets to live through a near death experience because, like, you when we watch the movie, we think of it from Frenchman about, oh, I'm gonna lose my horse from my dogma. He's like, look.
Ocean Murff:
This is near death. I almost died. Then he jets up. He finishes, and he wins the race. And what he does by winning the race is he generates enough money to get his friend to go back home and buy his brothers and sister Mustangs that are all in captivity, and then he has them freed.
Ocean Murff:
And he himself is now free to run the countryside with them as a free horse. This is the story of how Hidalgo was the hero throughout. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the voice of Hidalgo by Ocean. You have the perspective of Frank Hopkins and throughout the movie, and there is a movie there, which is honestly quite enjoyable. But at the end of it all, I I realized that this movie is about the horse.
Speaker 3:
You have a character that is the leading character that can't speak that Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
Somehow we end up pulling for. Was there a particular moment throughout the movie that you're like, yeah. This movie is just he's the hero. He's the this is our hero. Two points.
Ocean Murff:
One, way back in the beginning when Aziz goes to the Buffalo to the Buffalo Bill show, and Buffalo Bill says Hidalgo is a legend among these parts. Right? He says that about the horse, not about Frank Hopkins.
Speaker 3:
Oh yeah, yeah. Okay.
Ocean Murff:
And then the other part which solidified it was when Hidalgo was at the starting line at the second leg. When he's at the start line at the second leg looking back, I was like, oh no, this is not your fill. This is his film. And you are along for the ride. Man, Jim, it is always great to talk about movies with you.
Ocean Murff:
If you really enjoy the show, please become a supporting member at thenextreel.com forward slash join. For $5 a month, you will gain members only access to bonus show content for this and many other shows in the next real family of film podcasts. Like, rate, listen, and most importantly, share this podcast with anyone you know that loves sports and movies. So, Jim, I was thinking about part of this movie where the opening credits of it start based on a true story. And so I started looking up the veracity of the trueness of of the story.
Ocean Murff:
So what I did is after I saw the movie and I enjoyed the movie, decided to find out, well, which parts of this are true and which parts were made up for the movies. Alright. Yeah. And so let me let me see if I can explain to you succinctly what I found and then we can go into the details. Okay.
Ocean Murff:
Let's do Here is succinctly what I found. The true parts of this movie are Frank T. Hopkins was born or lived in Wyoming and in 1965, he died in 1951. And that's it. What?
Ocean Murff:
Nothing else about this movie is true.
Speaker 3:
Shut the front door. Are you kidding me?
Ocean Murff:
No, nothing. It was not only is so let's start with the big thing. The 3,000 mile race across Saudi Arabia. There is no there is no historical example in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else of a of a race this long ever existing.
Speaker 3:
Okay. So full disclosure Uh-huh. What little I googled on this, I that that answers so much. Because, like, I googled. I was like Frank t.
Speaker 3:
Found it. It was like, cool. Neat. And then it was like 3,000 mile race in Arabia. Couldn't really find anything.
Speaker 3:
I was like, moving on. I'll put that in my notes to to research later. Didn't research. So, yeah, move on. I can't wait.
Speaker 3:
Let's do this.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. Yep. So the race is not real. They have no evidence of Nothing like it. Nothing.
Ocean Murff:
Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Not a thing.
Ocean Murff:
And on top of that, there are few people that even hear about the race happening, they're like, well, that would have been impossible. That in 1890, you had to go from one coast to the other in the in The Americas, and then an extra 200 miles back, and on a horse. So, and then even then, the terrain in The Americas is much friendlier, and I'm including the Nevada, Arizona desert, because Saudi Arabia is way worse. Way worse. So, yeah.
Ocean Murff:
So the people that historians that have ever heard about it, they're like, Yeah, that would have been impossible. It never happened. There's no evidence of the race ever even existed. Two, there is a claim in the movie where where the Frei T Hopkins is a part of the Buffalo Bill Dwala show. False.
Ocean Murff:
So the there is there are historians about the show, about Buffalo Bill because Buffalo Bill's fairly famous. Lot of historians about his him and his life in the show, and there is not a single bit No. A single bit of evidence that Freytia Hopkins was ever employed or part of the show.
Speaker 3:
Really? No connection in that regard? Mean, maybe they ran into each other in somehow way, but None. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3:
So did any of your research indicate anything that that was that is a story that was foretold by Frank, or was that a story that was put together for the movie?
Ocean Murff:
Well, okay. So then there's there are two aspects of this. One, there's that. The other one, which I think we should definitely talk about was, he claims to be Native American, specifically of the Lakota tribe, and that is not as that isn't it is not only unsubstantiated by the Lakota nation because they have no record of him or his mother and do not claim that he was a part of it at all. So he wasn't even native.
Ocean Murff:
So, so, so there's that. Now, there are various aspects of it where it sounds like what happened is, at the time of Frank's life, he told people these stories of this race, of this horse, of this adventure, of these things. And people wrote it down and some people actually believed it to be true at the time because he told it in such an amazing way. But anytime we dig into any of it, there is no evidence of not only the existence of the race, but that he was a member of the Lakota Nation. He was never in Buffalo Bills Walt show that none of it is true.
Ocean Murff:
Even to the point of honestly, there's not necessarily a lot of substantiation for the horse. And the horse is like the hero of the show. The other part of it that is true is that the crawl at the end, he does say he does say he was an outspoken proponent of Mustang freedom rights or Mustang rights to to roam free throughout the throughout The Americas. True. But he also there is a thing where he gained a reputation for distance writing in his autobiographical memoir, and it was unpublished in his lifetime and to accounts to friends, and that's where all that stuff comes from.
Ocean Murff:
But he not not only he seems to have lived a very urban lifestyle and did not he was not actually a cowboy.
Speaker 3:
I'm dumbfounded. I'm speechless because, you know, it says, like, it's based on a true story. What little I googled, you know, I saw even just that little part that you were saying, like, about the Mustang advocacy in, like, Oklahoma, I saw it was like he was, like, responsible for some Mustang ranch or some Mustangs being untouched in in Oklahoma or something like that. Was like, oh, cool. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:
You know, attracts with the story and wow. Yeah. So okay. I'm wondering, and it's not like we've got a fact checking team or anything like that. But if this was a possible race ever, not saying that Frank participated in one, but if there ever was a particular race, is there anything in your research that said, like, any Arab country or nation or Arab line of a particular stud because, you know, they have kept those bloodlines very clean.
Speaker 3:
There's nothing in any of these stud handling that anybody can point back to like, oh, yeah. No. That was a race that but it was done, like, in the thirteen hundreds, not not anywhere, like, in the eighteen hundreds.
Ocean Murff:
No. There are some there are various long distance horse races that happened at the time, both in the in The Americas and in Saudi Arabia, but the Right. The race in Saudi Arabia was, like, 300 miles. It wasn't that. It wasn't 3,000, it was a few hundred miles, it was not.
Ocean Murff:
There is the fact that the race existed, and so that part of it is known, but not, there was not a 3,000 mile race to that far. It was just inside of insular inside of a country, similar to the long distance races that are even the one that's depicted at the beginning where there's like a 400 mile race inside of The United States. Like those races did in fact happen. Now, there is no evidence that Frank T. Hopkins was a part of any of them, but those races did happen.
Ocean Murff:
And races, horse races that were a few hundred miles at that time in history were there were some. I don't I don't know that common is the right word, but there were plenty of them until then. They existed.
Speaker 3:
Well, and it was important back then because of kind of like what they were even saying in the movie, you know, you and your pony express can get out of here. I mean, was the way that mail made it from point a to point b. And if you could find somebody like a Frank that could get navigate fairly quickly, you know, you would wanna pay them. So, I mean, there was a there was a serviceable purpose for also some of these races too, you know, was to be able to be like, hey, look, these guys can do it better than these other guys, and you'd wanna employ somebody like a Frank who's always won in these races versus, you know, somebody who's entering the races and, you know, barely finishing.
Ocean Murff:
The interesting thing to me with the story is that this is a fun movie and it's great, and you hear based on a true story, you you immediately go into a kind of this adventure mode of wow, what I'd do if I was in this situation, but it is interesting to me when I looked up about it. Because I was just curious about like little things, like, wanna know what happened to the horse or, like, you know, what else, you know, kinda like little things about, like, you know, what what little things did they dramatize? And and
Speaker 3:
this Especially at the end of the movie, it's like Hidalgo's running around with a herd and his, you know, I didn't say it, but it's like they indicated that his seed's being spread all over the place because he was running with the herd. Exactly. And I'm like, oh, that's that's beautiful. I mean, it's a dramatization. That's fine.
Speaker 3:
Whatever. I can I believe that that horse ran around and spread his seed, and there's good running mustangs out there that have Hidalgo blood lottings? That's what I'm going with. Either that or Frank actually shot him somewhere and ate him or something because that that's another storyline too. Why not?
Ocean Murff:
Like, yeah.
Speaker 3:
There's Let's go.
Ocean Murff:
It is it's just as good as Reasons Any Other because there is a thing of where I was surprised that there are still wild horses in the Southwest. Yeah. That, and I actually came across them about two years ago in Las Vegas. I was riding a motorcycle, we were out, well, actually wasn't Las Vegas, it was in Nevada. We're out in the middle of in the desert area of Nevada and a bunch of wild horses ran across the road.
Ocean Murff:
And so they do still exist, they are still out there, so there is some of that. But when you hear Based on True Story, there's a mindset and you get into with it. And with this one, it was while I was looking up, look, this was really well done and I was just curious what was dramatized. I was just surprised to find out that effectively, it's a fable. Frank Hopkins made this story up, and that's what we're watching, which honestly, he made up a good story.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. And then somebody, you know, was able to monetize that. So, I mean, good for Disney for taking that, or maybe it was a family member that was like, hey, I found these old books of Frank, and this is a great story. Like, okay.
Ocean Murff:
I'm gonna buy that for, like, 10,000. Yeah. Whatever it was, they they got the rights to it. They made it and everything until they they provided a myth. And and at the end of the day, Disney is good at that.
Ocean Murff:
If you think about various Disney movies, those are myths. I mean, honestly, the entire Marvel universe, you could argue, is a myth. Now, it's a myth written by Stan Lee, but it's still a myth. And it's and it they do a great job of putting that together and doing that until they Right. They did it here.
Speaker 3:
They don't say at the beginning of the movie, this is based on a true story, though.
Ocean Murff:
Well, no. They well, well, yeah. Well, except except Spider Man. Spider Man is real. Look it up, kids.
Ocean Murff:
Alright. So So
Speaker 3:
Which is perfectly appropriate for right now because it's very, very spidery season. Right now.
Ocean Murff:
Yeah. That was the thing that I was surprised by, and I thought I would share with you that Thanks. As much as we like to believe in these things, that this is just a myth, and it's a good myth, and it's a good story. It's entertaining. It should not keep anyone from watching it, but just know that Yeah.
Ocean Murff:
Definitely. Literally none of it is true. I mean, not only that, like the the way Wounded Knee, they depict Wounded Knee in the movie, it didn't happen that way. It just Right. It's all like, that part was one of those ones where when I saw it, I was like, I don't think it happened like that.
Ocean Murff:
And it didn't. The true history is way worse. Way worse. Way worse. What happened in reality.
Ocean Murff:
So, instead of digging into that, if you wanna know about that, Google it yourself because it's way worse. There hasn't been a movie made. Well, you know, I think there definitely are other movies made about, about what happened at Wounded Me, but yeah, it's, it's, it's much worse. And so, that aside, yeah, no, he was apparently the one thing that is somewhat substantiated is that they feel that at some point in time, was a member of Ring Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus, and he did do stuff there, but he was never a part of the Buffalo Bill show, and this entire story was made up. So that is your public service announcement for the day.
Ocean Murff:
Ladies and gentlemen, that this is a myth. Enjoy it as such. Well, you, Ocean, for bringing that to our attention and kinda burst to my bubble a little bit about Otago.