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Finding life after loss, Two Dancing Widows dives into the stories of resilience, hope, and transformation. Hosts Toni and Hettie welcome new guests each week, from widowers and life coaches to those battling severe illness, who share their journeys through struggle and their paths back to joy. This podcast is for anyone navigating grief or simply looking for inspiration to live and love deeply again. Tune in for heartfelt conversations that remind us all that healing, while challenging, is a dance worth stepping into.
Coming up on this episode of Two Dancing Widows.
Before you throw someone out the boat or throw someone over the board,
how do you assess or realize their value to you?
I mean, especially when you meet them under such precarious situations,
you know, in a situation like that, where you're bar hopping,
you meet these girls and...
No, because I guess everybody has two faces.
They have their face that they showed the public,
and then they have their private face,
or the face that they showed their friends.
Right.
They may be a more serious face,
because everybody wants to have a good time,
and some people don't mind, you know, having a good time,
but that may not be what they are only about.
Correct, correct.
And I guess you don't know until you know.
And so you have that family emergency in crisis,
you didn't know that she would be a loyal person you could count on.
But after that, then how are position in your boat changed?
Yeah, for a little while.
For a little while.
You're going to hear the end of the story, uh oh.
Welcome to Two Dancing Widows,
the podcast where Tony and Heddy explore life after loss
and the strength we find in each other's stories.
This week, Tony and Heddy explore a powerful question.
Who's in your boat?
Through heartfelt stories, humor, and honest reflection,
they talk about the people who truly show up during grief,
hardship, and life's changing seasons,
the friends who help steadies,
the ones who quietly drift away,
and the unexpected people who become anchors when we need them most.
This episode is a reminder that not everyone is meant to travel every part of our journey,
and that healing often comes from the people willing to row beside us
through difficult waters.
If this episode speaks to your heart,
please follow, subscribe, and share two dancing widows with a friend.
Visit our website to catch up on all previous episodes at twodancingwittos.com.
You will also find a link to our Facebook community to continue the conversation.
And now, here is Heddy to begin this week's episode.
In the twilight glow,
where memories blend,
two souls reminisce on life's winding men.
Yeah, yeah,
we'll after entails from a time so bold they share the stories yet untold.
Oh!
Hello listeners, it's Heddy and Tony,
and we are at the two dancing widows,
and we're back today with another interesting episode.
At least we think so.
This is something that Tony and I have been talking about a little bit,
and Tony asked me this question one day,
what she said was,
who's in your boat?
And it took me a minute to think about that,
and to kind of wonder what it was about.
And when I started thinking, I thought,
well, you know what, that is a good place to start.
Because while it sounds simple,
don't let it fool you.
It can be relatively layered.
What do you think, Tony?
Absolutely, because initially I thought about six or eight people,
who were steady people all your life,
then were always there in your boat.
And then as I thought more about it,
it was like, well,
some people are in the boat for a little bit,
and some people have been on the journey all your life.
Some people come in and out.
Some people don't help you along your journey.
They're there, but they don't help you.
And some people are really shouldn't be in your boat.
And so I think it really is about being intentional,
about who you allow to be in your boat.
I know, that's true.
But also think about the fact that sometimes we depend on people
in ways that we shouldn't.
I remember one of our guests talked about the fact that one of the things
that she had to reconcile along her own journey was that,
even though you have these really great friends that you party with all the time,
that you hang out with, that you talk to when you're up, when you're down,
maybe even on a daily basis,
they're not all equally yoked.
They're not all good at the same thing.
Like there are those that will visit you at the hospital when you're in.
There's, and there are those that want.
Doesn't mean you're not your friends.
There are those that want you to be at home.
The ones that visit you in the hospital.
Maybe I come to your home,
where's the ones that didn't make come to your home.
There are those that will do neither of those,
but they make how you take you to the doctor,
or just call you one day and say,
you know what, I was cooking thought of you and brought over some food.
So I think we have to be a little bit more focused when we say,
who is in your boat?
And what exactly is the journey that this boat is for?
So is it the boat that we need with us when we're filling our highest levels of anxiety?
When we're filling like we really don't want to travel a road alone?
Or is it just someone on GP general principles?
Who when you're up, when you're down, somebody can call,
somebody can lean on?
What specifically are we talking about when we say,
who's in your boat?
And what is this boat?
I think of the boat as,
it's my life vessel, if you will,
and I'm traveling along the waters on my life journey.
And people climb into your boat,
sometimes you don't even know they're on board,
and sometimes some follow-off are gone.
And you don't even realize that they've made an exit,
because they make a quiet exit,
where they just don't show up or call, and you're busy,
and you kind of forget about them,
and they forget about you,
not in a bad sense, but they float away, if you will.
I was thinking, so that for me,
when I say who's in your boat,
who is on this journey of life with you?
And I realize that everybody on that journey,
it's not someone that's going to go beginning the end with you.
Yes, some people just go part of the way with you,
sort of like a race where they hand off the boat.
Yes, yes.
And then you take it further and hand it to someone else.
It could be, and then there are those people who are like rudders.
Yes.
They are steering, they are there, they are constant.
And I don't know, I don't know, how do you identify them?
Do you need to identify that?
Is it a case-by-case situation?
Is it something you need to know,
so that if something happens all of a sudden,
you kind of know who to call.
I think, I think for the most part,
we know what people that we can really depend on,
and I think, I mean, without naming them,
you really know in your heart of heart,
who's really going to be there with you through thick and thin.
Sometimes people surprise you in both ways.
Sometimes people you know are going to be with you,
are there with you, every step of the way.
And sometimes people you think will be there, aren't.
But there may be someone you never in a million years thought of
that would step in and help you, and there they are.
And I've been surprised by that sometimes in life
where you're thinking, wow, I never knew that you could be so dependable
or so helpful to me,
because your relationship with them may not have been even that close at some time.
They're not here to be the significance.
Right.
And there are people that you like, maybe sometimes more than they like you.
Yes.
And they're people that like you more than you may like them.
That's true.
Or they have a respect for you that you don't know that they have
or whatever, but I find that to be an easy thing to know
who's going to be there all the time.
Because I think I've been disappointed in life,
as well as grandly surprised.
Yes.
Yes, certain people's acts of selflessness.
Right.
Absolutely.
And I've shown up again and again and again.
And I've kind of been like, wow, look who's here again and again and again.
Someone I never expected.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And so I think that, but I think there are those people,
at least for me, that have been in my boat all the time.
And I've been in their boat all the time.
And I think that that's pretty much very stable connection.
But your connection with them, do they change based on me?
For example, I have some girlfriends that are just steadfast.
It's like, okay, girl, straight ahead, nose pointed towards exit.
This is the way out.
Let's go.
Let's go.
You know, this park to crowd, park to Red Sea.
Let's just walk through it.
And they're on that journey constantly moving, constantly moving through things
and moving to the other side.
And then I have those friends that are sort of sit there,
take it all in, then a side's a little bit.
Think about it before they take every single step, which can be exhausting.
And when you need to go, or maybe you don't even know what you need,
how do you pick and choose?
What do you do?
I think you know.
I think you know.
I think you know.
If you go and sit now, if there is an emergency right now,
you could almost list the people you call and the people you could depend on.
You know.
And I think I have several different friend groups, and I've talked to my granddaughter about this,
and everybody doesn't have to be in one big group.
You have different people for different reasons and different things that you enjoy and all of that.
So I think you know what groups, what groups your people belong in.
I don't know the people of that study are not dependable.
Maybe they are.
Yeah.
I kind of think for the most part.
Now there are exceptions, but you have friends that you know that as long as you're up and about
and able to have a good time, able to travel, able to do all those fun things,
those are your girls.
That's your group.
That's your party group.
Some of those people, you know you can't depend on if you're down and out or if there's a crisis.
Those people just aren't that those people for you.
But there are some people in that group that do carry over and you can be counting on.
You know, it's really funny.
So I have a couple of friends that are just, you know, I'll call them Princess type.
They're just flighty and fun and just always, and it's just silly.
I'll stupid silly.
I would never take anything very seriously.
The interesting thing about them though is that I found in a time of my crisis, they were
rock city.
Absolutely.
And you cannot look at the out.
No, I would not have expected that.
I would not have expected that.
Based on just a general overall personality, I would not have expected that.
I would not have expected them.
You know, someone who gets up in the morning, who's totally scatterbrained, who can barely
get themselves together, that's always like for everything, shows up on time for what you
need.
Yes.
Yes.
So, there's supplies.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, and the people that climb on board and you don't know they're on there and some of them
need to be removed.
That's something I think you have to be intentional about too, is getting rid of bad jujoo
if you will.
One people that really don't are not going to help you go forward in your journey and sometimes
are actually going to send you backwards or on the wrong route.
But there are those people that are just sad, sad, sad, that are just going to be sad.
They're going to point to everything that's wrong, everything that's sad, everything that's
just horrible, and everything that cannot be overcome, rather than telling you how to take
steps to overcome it.
Yeah.
And some people do.
They have some friends and actually they're really good friends, but they're very much wrapped
in fear.
And so, that produces that.
Any story that's horrible, anything that's happened to anyone that's just really so sad,
they seem to just look for those stories and dwell in that.
Because I think it's their own fear that keeps them at that level, so I can only take so
much of that because that really bothers my soul to hear that, you know, to everything's
now getting to the groom.
I mean, it really is.
It's true, but and at this particular time, this is a time of stress and strain when the
one gift that you can ask for is clarity.
Yes.
You need to be clear on who's going to do what, who's going to be where, because I'm a
person that likes list.
Yes.
And I like to know, okay, who's moving in this direction?
Because that way I know that the bases are covered.
Who can I throw a look to, who will recognize my look and know, oh, she's in trouble and
gets a rope?
Who can I toss a coin to and I'll know, okay, she wants this and I'll go to the story
again.
You know, who can be helped in on to just do whatever it is?
Because now you brought up an interesting point for me is that some of the people that
are in your boat, you're not in theirs.
And vice versa, some people whose boat that you might always be in their boat, a permanent
fixture that is always faithfully in their boat, but you cannot count on them to be in
yours.
Yes, actually true.
And I think that's very important to recognize.
There are no things that happens.
I don't know.
What do people have different strengths and different weaknesses?
Yes.
Okay.
And you know, I think the one thing we can do that's really true is we should not over
expect from our friends.
I'm surprised that you're for saying that that's a Tony, Tony kind of thinking.
No.
I try to be realistic about those abilities.
Yeah, they just can't or they don't choose to.
Is that a difference?
Well, I think there's something that don't see right or they don't see with this through
the same lens through which you see.
And that's a different thing.
So you know, where you see the glass is half full all the time no matter what they say
is half empty all the time no matter what.
Correct.
This is the same glass.
The water levels the same place.
Okay.
This is what I struggle with.
Is that a decision that you make?
I think it's characteristic.
Okay.
Because I'm thinking can't you change your perspective?
Or is that much easier said than done?
I think it is because I think that once you are anchored, reared or growl in a direction
that has become comfortable for you, you're more likely just a rooted there all the time.
You know, there are trees that blow on the wind and they blow, you know, stalks or whatever
that re-root in other places.
And those so those trees are constantly propagating all the time.
Then you have those trees that are like oaks and they never move.
They just grow and grow up for hundreds of years.
At the same pace at the same time or redwoods.
Okay.
And they go through all the times and all the seasons, but they don't necessarily propagate.
You plant one you get one.
Okay.
So I'm not sure.
Because I know I've been criticized for that before in having expectations of people that
one of my friends will say you just really don't get it.
You know, those people it's not a decision they're making.
It's just they're not able to make a different decision.
And that I'd struggle with.
Well, you know, I think everybody brings their own marbles to the game, right?
And some of those marbles are really sharp and they're good and they go far.
Some are just a little rubber things, some are little, you know, plastic things and they
bounce a little bit or they don't bounce.
Okay.
Some are actually marbles.
Can they roll better?
You never know what people are bringing to the game.
Always say I caught people's shit.
Everybody brings their own shit with them wherever they go.
They just bag it, you know, it's like a luggage.
You're just bringing it with you.
Even in people that you just meet, excuse me, but excuse me.
And even in people that even with people that you just meet and you think, oh, wow, they're
really special.
I really like this person.
We're really grooving together and you probably are until you see what kind of shit they're
bringing to the game.
That's true.
And I'm very guilty of that.
Are you?
Yeah.
I'm real guilty of initially accepting everybody and initially believing that what you're
saying and the person you're portraying is really who you are.
And that is something that has been disappointing sometimes for me.
But people I know will say, well, like you guys, you're guilty.
Pollyanna, why would you believe everything about a person at first, but I have a tendency
to do that?
I actually do too.
And I'm not a Pollyanna person, but I tend to try to not, my focus is to not overthink
or over exaggerate.
Yes.
So I try to see what you show me.
Right.
I try to take you as face value.
So if you tell me you're the queen of whatever, right?
You know, I try to think, well, she's the queen of whatever.
And if you then, you know, tell me, this is my entourage behind me.
I think, oh, she has brought her entourage.
And then I find out on the other side that, you know, you're this one thing and not this
and something else.
Tell you a story that was really funny.
So I first moved out to L.I.
I was out at the club, whatever, whatever, whatever.
I met this girl and a couple of girls.
They were together, friends, maybe three of them.
And I was so fun.
They took me in right away, you know, a little puppy dog that I was just kind of just
out slink it through the bars at no business.
I don't even do that.
But I was just like, just down the street from where I live.
I just go see what's happening.
And I did.
And it was fun.
We had a really good time exchange numbers and everything.
And so we, you know, talked over the next week and they talked about what they do and
what they did.
And I think somebody was, you know, this model and somebody was trying to get into acting.
It was an acting school.
Somebody else was, you know, secretary or whatever.
So I cycled Kate Fine Cool.
And that's what I thought they were.
And then, you know, my friend at the time, so in the name of my husband, was actually a
pro basketball player.
So he was going to be in town.
So he called and said, Hey, you know, teams coming to town, whatever made me down at the
century hotel down here in LA on so and so mobile, whatever.
He down there was brand new.
It just opened at the time.
And we'll be back in a beginning of the sevens.
So I'm like, okay, I get all pumped up and everything and I go down there.
And he's like, because at the time, the players actually even in the pros, they actually
still had roommates.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So he was like, Oh, don't come up because you know, so on.
So he's crazy and you probably have 10 women up there.
I'll make me down there.
I get there.
And as I walk in, I see these women that I had seen at the bar, all sleeping around and
he's really sexy over the, you know, like many skirts with tight stockings and all.
And they looked up and see me and say, Oh, you know, like are you here to meet someone?
Like do you know someone on a team?
I don't know what you call groupies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just hang on.
They knew all these guys.
They knew their schedules and some of these guys I knew because I even knew their wives
and all because we were you know, we were dating and dating from college and we knew each
other.
And I'm just looking at them like, I thought you were this.
I thought you were that.
And what they were a professional groupie.
That's right.
Absolutely.
I was talking to one person's wife and I was like, she was like, what are you going
to do?
I was like, I'm going to go out there and tell someone so this, that and the other, I
will call me names and I was like, okay, I see you sing down a hall one of these babes.
And I'm like, what?
And you know, and it was just really weird.
And she didn't even know the wife didn't even know at the time what their schedule was.
Yeah.
Where they were going to be, what hotel, what the name of the hotel was.
And this is kind of before like cell phone.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Of course.
You got your schedules and all that.
This is kind of like when you get none of the planning to hand you your schedule.
Yes.
And you have to find a telephone booth to call and say where you're going to be.
And that's why I was already in that way when Jimmy called me and said, you know, hey,
you know, team said out that way.
That's what I mean.
Here.
You know, that was on the schedule, but I know he'll tell there will be a.
Well, you know what's, yeah, that's that's very true.
Now this is something I was thinking about.
So you kind of know people and they might come in on and off your boat.
However, is it, do you find yourself sometimes because I'm good at this?
I'll just accepting people as who they are.
Like some people want to connect with people for certain reasons.
And that's very obvious, even though they don't think they're showing it.
You know that.
That's really why they want to talk to you because maybe you have a friend that somebody
they really want to meet or they want to get to know.
They'll get to know you and do that.
You know, the connections piece.
Some people like you have great parties.
I want to be connected with Heddy because I want to be at those parties.
So even if you know that about people, are they okay?
They'll, can you keep them as who they are and just know that?
You know what they're what they're going to party.
What's the game is because every party needs participants.
Right.
My every boat needs rollers.
Right.
My parents used to be the party givers and they were the ones that entertained all the
time.
And sometimes my dad in his crankiness would be like, I'm tired of inviting Joe and Henry
because they never invite us over not even for a couple of coffee.
And I said, Dad, but that's not their place in this your boat, if you will.
Their place is to come.
And they are the fun, funniest people that are dancing.
They get the party going.
That's their role.
They're not good at being hosting people, but they're good at coming, making your party
a lot of fun and eating the food and talking like, yeah, having a good time playing cards.
So you need those people to have to make it interesting.
But do you need them in an emergency or when things are exactly you know that those are
not the people.
Those are not the people.
But then again, you don't.
So let me finish this story.
So that's how I met these girls.
Well turns out a couple years later, when I'm moving to New York, I run into one of these
girls, Roslyn was her name.
And at the time, I was like, hey, star.
Because that's what everything was out there.
It was star turns out her name was Roslyn.
And, excuse me.
And turns out her name is Roslyn.
And turns out that, you know, I run into her in New York.
It turns out that, you know, I actually knew this anyway, is that she was from, you know,
Chicago, because that was one of the things that we talked about in LA when we met is that
she was from, you know, self-sized Chicago girl.
And that was one of the things we clicked about.
And all that, I just didn't know that she was, you know, like a groupie or a hooker or
whatever they were.
I don't know what they were.
But I went to her in New York at a club.
And again, I had to put this there.
And I was there.
And so we hook up again.
And turns out that even though she was, who she was and she did, what she did, she turned
out to be a really good friend for a really long time.
Right.
And she would come back to Chicago when I moved back to Chicago.
And visit her mom and she would call me and we'd go out and kick it.
She was just a fun person.
And it just turns out that even like an emergency, a couple of things came up, you know, like I
had to leave town quickly because something happened.
My brother was actually killed in the car accident.
And you know, she went and shipped my things to me back from New York and all that.
So I was closing down.
I'm moving on to my car, man.
And I need to get back and help my mom and I saw the kind of stuff and take a leave
absence.
And she did all that stuff.
So I guess that comes to my point of not always knowing before you throw someone out
the boat or throw someone over the board, overboard.
How do you assess or realize their value to you?
I mean, especially when you meet them under such precarious situations, you know, in a
situation like that, where you're bar hopping, you meet these girls and you know, because
I guess everybody has two faces.
They have the face that they showed the public and then they have their private face or
the face that they show their friends.
Right.
And maybe a more serious face because everybody wants to have a good time.
So some people don't mind, you know, having a good time, but that may not be what they
are only about.
Correct.
Correct.
And I guess you don't know until you know.
And so you have that family emergency in crisis.
You didn't know that she would be a loyal person you could count on.
But after that, then her position in your boat changed.
Yeah.
For a little while.
For a little while.
You're going to hear the end of the story.
Uh oh.
So this is really funny.
Well, she was a really good friend for a really long time.
Of course, by now, this is years later, we are, you know, a family.
We have kids and you know, she's sort of like running around and run her butt into the
ground or whatever.
And she's back in Chicago working somewhere to serve her.
And you know, she's still keeping contact.
And Jimmy and I, we moved down with the kids to, uh, to Champaign.
And so she calls and says, you know what?
Hey.
I hear someone, someone, someone.
So the guys are going to be in town for some of the games.
And I'm like, these are college students.
She's like, no, but some of the pro guys that we used to hang around with are coming down
for this game because of school day went to.
I'm like, okay, you're going to come down to that.
Yeah, we'll come down.
So she comes down.
We provide a place for her in a whole bit.
Well, you know, the girls just loved her because again, she says zesty, hip person and all
this other stuff.
I mean, before the night was over, she had on her mini-scare with it.
I mean, this woman is old now, right?
She's, when I say, oh, she's in her 40s with all this stuff with this, let's, on this,
she's lived in Amsterdam.
She's lived in New York.
She's lived in audits in places.
She's, she, I mean, she did do some modeling some long ways.
She's chasing the dream.
She's chasing the dream.
She's chasing the dream.
And she, uh, it goes out and we go out together and, you know, we're at the game and everything.
And of course, I actually get home because I have to check on my kids and stuff.
Well, she says she's going to stay out.
So I'm like, okay, you can stay out.
And I actually like slump back in the house about 7 o'clock in the morning when the kids
are all getting ready for school with all her stuff, all the screw, you know, all the
screw, it all the stuff.
And I was like, the beatwork girl for real at this age.
I was so high.
I do ask myself now.
Why was I so angry at her?
I guess I was disappointed that she hadn't grown out of that.
And she was still doing that kind of stuff.
I was like, did you hit it with so on, so on, so on.
She's like, I'm like, what would she do that?
And the lady, she was later, that guy's old guy.
He's not doing this anymore.
He's not even that great anymore.
And why would she be out there?
Okay, I was just for old times sake.
So I'm like, what?
You still, you know, I'll sleep around like that.
She couldn't get out of living in that life and that in her head.
I guess.
So now that she got my boat or not.
I don't know.
Does she?
I don't know.
I don't know.
If what you'd have to say does she add value?
Does she add confusion?
Do you have time to think about that stuff?
When you're packing your boat,
you really need to make decisions and stuff is going on.
Stuff is going on.
I think you need to think about who brings you peace.
Hmm.
Who brings you joy?
Hmm.
Who brings you, who nourishes you, if you will.
And I think those things are important.
Who's loyal to you?
Mm-hmm.
You know, those kinds of things,
I think you really need to really think about those qualities.
What's important to you, what qualities are important to you
for people to be in your boat?
Yeah, I guess that's true.
I guess, you know, it's so funny though,
because as you go through life,
those are not things that I actually think of,
so evaluate friends along those lines.
Mm-hmm.
I just think of, you know,
hey, it's a great friend for lunch.
It's a great friend for going places.
It's a good friend for doing this or that,
or just like, you know, today,
the situation where my girlfriend called,
which is how you look.
I know that this sounds really funny.
Can you maybe sit in my husband?
Mm-hmm.
But it was an emergency situation
where she had, you know, an appointment for a long time
to go to the doctor.
Yeah.
A series of medical work done on her.
And he always said it was having something
or had some sort of situation where, you know,
rheumatoid arthritis or something
was just locking his bones up.
And he was not able to, you know, move
and do the things that he usually does.
Right.
And she didn't want to leave him at home
because she didn't know what was going on.
And if he had been to the hospital,
and they couldn't find anything wrong with him, right?
But he was still having his sort of,
I don't know,
many seizures or something,
but he was, you know, just not able to move.
And so she says, you know, can I bring him by?
And you stay with him while I go
and do what I have to do.
I'm like, sure.
Because you are definitely in their boat.
Yeah.
Are they in your boat?
She is.
Yes.
And she would do the same for you.
I didn't tell you she's my big sister.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
You know, my sororities are just like that.
Right. Yeah.
Well, I said she was my big sister.
So you have been able to depend on each other for 50 years, almost.
Well, she's golden on that.
She probably will.
Well, but for many years, you've been a minimum, yes.
Yeah.
For many, many years.
So you know that you, you, you share a seat in each other's boat.
Yeah. I think so.
And that's so, it was, it was so flight, though,
because he was here and he was like, look at that.
And he's like, you know what?
What?
I need you to do me a favor.
I'm like, well, what do you need?
Because I'm like, well, you want to some food.
Do you know what I'm like?
I guess, you know, what are you doing?
Adult take care, right?
Do you need some cracker?
Yeah.
Do you know someone?
You're like, you know, I just need some candy.
But he's like, I need you to go on a trip with her.
I'm going to trip with her.
He's like, yeah, he's like, you know, I know she really wants to go on this cruise.
And she's been paying on it.
And I don't want to go.
He's like, I don't even pay your weight.
I have some Viking cruise that can be $20,000.
I don't care.
I don't want to go.
And I was like, I don't need you to pay my way if I'm going to go.
He goes, well, she really wants to go on.
I just don't want to go.
I said, if you told her that, well, I need you to tell her.
I need any minutes I heard that you don't want to go on it.
And you've been married almost 60 years.
Yes.
But you need me to tell her that you don't want to go.
So I said, okay, but we'll do this together.
So when she got back, I said, you know, Joe doesn't want to go on that trip with you.
And he's sitting there looking like, you don't want to surprise.
And she looks at him.
She goes, I know he really doesn't want to.
I said, well, he wants me to go with you.
And she's like, well, you, well, you.
So I'm like, maybe I don't know.
Boy, I don't think about that.
Dependent, dependability.
Those are our traits.
Who you are to be in your boat.
Right.
Absolutely.
Can you trust them?
Yeah.
That's very impressive.
We're on the boat.
No, that's what he put on the real boat.
Right.
Oh, buddy, that is, that's very true.
So I think at our age, at any age, actually, but particularly as you get older, I think
it's very important to, to the intentional about who's in your boat.
I do.
I think it is.
I think it's certainly at this point in life because of the way things happen, just
like how it happened with him.
Yes.
And how all of a sudden, I mean, they were fine.
They were just on a cruise.
They went to Australia.
I mean, they've been on this thing.
I was saying to him when he was here, I said, boy, you guys have really cut loose lately.
You know, the kids have grown.
The grandkids are even going to college.
He was telling me to take him one for their drivers, permit.
And the oldest one is in college and the youngest one is, you know, in high school.
And, you know, they are traveling the world and doing the things together that they've
always wanted to do.
They met in college.
They've been married.
I was celebrating their 50th anniversary with them some years back.
They've been married almost 60 years now.
And he had a dealership and all that.
He sold that and there, you know, and she was a school administrator.
She retired.
They had been traveling together over the years, but then they had older parents.
Well, she did.
And then she lost her dad.
Yeah, her good partner.
And then her mom.
And there was always, you know, just something like wedging.
Yes.
And even though they were taking these little trips, you know, here and there, they've
always traveled.
This has been a time when they've been able to do really long trips.
Like when they went to Australia, you know, and they would go on like on a 20-day
trip or whatever.
And they really had a great time.
And you know, you come back and you're planning for next year's trip and all of a sudden
he's stricken with some unknown thing, which he said was they told him it was, you know,
they don't know what it is.
They really don't know what it is.
What I thought was interesting and I didn't, I don't know him at all.
So I didn't want to comment.
But I found that it was interesting when he recounted about how many people that you
have as really good friends in your life.
Yes.
And he said that he was so fortunate that there was a group of how many five, five, five
guys that were really good people.
They, so again, they were in each other's blood.
They were in each other's blood.
They were steady, dependable, trustworthy friends.
Right.
And that house only to left left.
And I thought that was, that was sad.
And that was one of them.
Yes.
That's what he said.
And I thought that that's why I see the boat as a life journey.
And so sometimes people are no longer in your boat because they lead, you know, permanently
and that's, that's very sad.
And then how did it, so then that brings me to another question in my mind about is people
leave, you know, because of loss or death or incapacity.
Yes.
You're at this point in your life.
How are you getting more people to get back in your boat, especially if you're in a situation
where you don't have kids or you've lost people.
You know, I make, I'm someone that's, I always thought I was someone that's really huge
family.
Well, as it turns out, I really wasn't.
I mean, I really wasn't.
The reason I thought that is because I grew up with my mother lived next door to her
brother who, when they lived next door to their other brother with their mother lived
down the street and her sister lived across the street.
And then my, you know, some other cousins of down the street.
And so every holiday was a family holiday where everybody got together.
I mean, they talk about big Italian families or big Polish families, big Greek families.
We have one big black family.
Yes.
We were too.
We were in and out of each other's doors and lives.
Not knocking on doors.
People came over on Sunday for dinner because they knew dinner was always ready because
it would put on before we left for church.
When you get back, it'd be ready by two or three.
Cakes were made on Saturday night.
And you know, everybody just knew there would be a meal there and men would eat, women
would eat.
So our boats were full.
Our boats were full.
Yes.
And as people started leaving us, departing its world.
And leaving, I began to realize, you know, when I lost my father and I lost my brother
and I lost my mother, they were only me actually standing.
I mean, I still have my aunt.
I still have two of my aunt's.
I'm, yes, in their 90s, one's 99, one's 94.
But I realized just me.
And now I look at my own family and it's the same way.
It was in my husband and in my daughter and I saw another door.
You know, I was just like, this is dwindling.
Yes, our boats.
Yes.
And how do we find our direction?
I think it's important that at this time, also that we evaluate whose boats we're in.
Because I think although our personal boats have gotten smaller with the number of people
that supported us because they were older and they're not here anymore.
Even the younger ones are gone.
That's true.
And I cousin, yes.
And I think, but it's important also that we evaluate whose boats we're in.
Because I think that helps us too to know that we are someone that people can depend on,
that they can count on, that we can support them.
I think that helps us too along our journey to know that we're needed.
Yeah.
It's always like, we've always liked you and I both have always enjoyed and gone to antique
shopping and stuff.
And when I see something, I like to antique jewelry shop and dinnerware and silver and
find things like that.
Lennon's, I love old Lennon's.
And I was wonder, who, you know, why is this here?
Why isn't a family member inheriting it or receiving it?
Why is this here?
Because there are some really truly precious pieces that you can find.
And now I wonder what will happen to my own estate as far as that goes.
Because I have collected these heirloom pieces over years and times.
And you know, because even if you think that the young people don't want them, what
happens is that they will take them and then their children will want them or they are
free to rejule them or re forge them.
And I always tell people, because I did that with my aunt's jewelry and even with my mother's
jewelry.
And even my wife and her mother has some of my mother's stones in it.
If you don't like a piece of the way it is or say maybe it's just a little ring that
has several little diamonds in it but it's precious to the person that wore it for 50
years, 60 years.
You can have those put into another setting and make it something that you want.
Because it's the stone and it's the value and it's the thought that counts.
And you carry them with you all the time.
And if that's important to you, that's okay.
But I honestly will tell you this.
I have everything I had since birth.
I found my baby bracelet from the hospital.
I have letters from Jimmy through college.
I have my first Holy Communion veil and prayer book.
Every report card in elementary school.
I found the other day.
So my mother and I are hoarders if you will and we kept kept every memory and everything.
My children and grandchildren will probably throw that stuff out but they won't throw it
out until I'm gone or until I can't.
I'm not able to see that they're doing it.
And that's one of the things we struggle with now.
But I feel like what's important to me is important to me.
Once I leave here, I don't care really what they do.
Well you can't care because it doesn't matter.
No, it doesn't matter to me.
And it's interesting that you say that because I think that some things that I have, I didn't
actually care about.
I can especially when it comes to my grandmother.
I knew more when my mother died.
I didn't know the value of it.
I just thought, oh, I should have this or I got this until later when I had it and I looked
at it.
And it started like with Brandy when she said to me, you know, she didn't like anything
I had.
And one day she said to me, I said, Mom, I think you ought to write down what I get and
what Eric gets because if you don't, Eric doesn't get everything because she's going
to say, Mom would want me to have this.
Mom would want me to, you know, all this other thing.
That's the oldest child.
I can't struggle with that too.
As you get older, you know, you put more value on things and you have more sentiment
sometimes.
And then some people forever are always like Aunt Valora, you know, she always is very
cut and dry and clear.
Those are everything.
I'm Martha.
It's time one that has everything.
Anything you want to believe is in the archive.
It's in her archive.
Yes.
Yes.
Then that's their option.
And I think the other option is to de-assession while you have things to start giving
them to people or asking people, what do they want?
Possibly or freeing people up to say, Hey, listen, you know, because when I always tell
my kids is just because it's junk to you, doesn't mean it's really junk.
Like we talked about earlier today, take it and get it appraised.
Yes.
Take it and find out and take it to someone who really knows.
And if the first person doesn't know, take it to some, because I remember taking a piece
to someone that I knew was an antique.
And I knew when I had bought it in the year that I had bought it in, which is like back
in the 60s.
And then this was actually at the antique roadshow.
And I took it and the guy was like, Oh, well, I'm not even really sure because they're
still doing a lot of stuff today.
And I don't know when this was made.
And if it was really old, it may be worth more than what it is if it was made today.
And I was like, well, it is really old.
And he goes, well, you can't tell.
I don't think of myself as you can tell because even I can tell the different minds that
certain gyms come from.
You know, even I can tell that and you're supposed to be an expert.
So it was funny that he said that when he was saying, well, you know, this might have
been made in the 80s.
And I'm like, no, no, this was made because that pot was back in the 60s.
You write right there around.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So as we go and we travel down this lane and we figure out who's in our boat, we also
want to figure what stuff was in our boat too, right?
Heady, that sounds like another episode about what stuff we take with us.
Yeah.
And we don't actually get to take it with us, but we may want to discuss who we want
to have it.
And how do you declutter your home of 50 years?
And how do you sort through things and decide what to keep and what not to think that
could be an upcoming episode?
I think you can.
But one thing I can tell you right now because I'm in the phase and you're in the phase
is you can't love everything equally.
I love all my things.
But honey, some things got to go.
And we will talk about that on the next issue.
So, but today I want to circle back and just say it's important.
Evaluate, start to look around that boat, start to see whose boat you're in.
And I think that it's very important to be very intentional about the people that are
in your boat because some people might need you to pull off and they may need to disembark
a great set.
I may want to put my stuff in instead of people in my boat.
I'll sink your boat.
Dancing shoes.
Let's just dance our way out of it.
All right.
What's a lot to think about today, Tony?
We started off on one track.
Yes.
Talk about losing your boat to what stuff is in your boat.
We do that sometimes.
We get a track.
Yeah.
Because that's what we do every day.
Yes.
We have normal conversations.
My mother used to say, my husband was so confused in the head.
He was like, I thought you were talking about this.
And she would say, well, you got to think fast.
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
I think fast.
Change our mind.
We're not talking about that anymore.
Right.
Or she would say, can you keep up?
Yes.
That's right.
That's right.
And so to our listeners, I know you always keep up.
And we just thank you for listening.
And we look forward to seeing you again, really soon, on another episode of Two Dancing
Worlds.
Check that out.
Two Dancing Widows.
In the Dance of Life and Braves.
Finding rhythm after 70.
In time and space.
In time and space.
With every step a new story unfolds.
In that journey the beauty of aging is told.
To Dancing Widows.
In the Dance of Life and Braves.
Finding rhythm after all.
In time and space.
In time and space.
With every step a new story unfolds.
In that journey the beauty of life is told is told.