Chapter + Verse

35 years of marriage, faith, and incredible community impact. Join us as Pam and Fred Teague share their journey from quiet beginnings to becoming influential community leaders. Discover the faith-driven actions and love that anchored their path.

What is Chapter + Verse?

A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.

Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,

faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"

moment.

Some inspiring, some messy,
and some that probably should

have come with a warning label.

Because through every chapter of
every story, God is still writing.

And He's not afraid of a little chaos.

This is Jill.

And Kerrye Let's turn the page.

Okay.

All right.

Well, we're here with my, my friends Pam
Teague, and she is married to our mayor of

Russellville, Fred Teague, um, who's not
with us today, but maybe someday he'llâ¦

Or maybe he'll jump in right now.

Or maybe he'll, yeah, pop in.

Who knows?

That's okay.

But, you know, I was gonna introduce
y'all as this is my friend Pam Teague,

and she, um, and she's here with
her husband, Fred Teague, the mayor.

Yeah.

He- Like I was gonna- I like
it â¦ introduce you first.

So.

So this is just- Yeah

it's how God worked it out.

Yeah, it is.

So, um, we just like to hear
different chapters in people's life

and how God has worked through their
life, and so we're ready to hear

yours, whatever you wanna share.

Okay.

Um- You can tell us a little
bit about yourself or-

Okay â¦ however you wanna start.

So- Yeah â¦ um, I am, uh, I was
born and raised in Wisconsin, so

I'm a, um- She's a fellow Yankee.

I'm a Yankee.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, my parents uprooted me and
took me to the South when I was

13, and have been here since.

Um- Did you love it immediately?

No.

Oh.

Same.

You were 13, so.

No.

I mean, I didn't hate it.

It wasâ¦

So I came from a little town of
639, little farming community.

Oh, I can't relate with that part at all.

Yeah.

Um, and so moved to Bentonville in 1982,
and the population was like 3,500 and

that was like, wow, that was so big.

Now Bentonville's like- Yeah â¦ bonkers-
Yeah â¦ crazy big and, um, so I'm

glad they didn't move me from my little
teeny-tiny town to something like that.

Yeah.

But, um, no, it was okay.

I just, you know, leaving
behind friends and- Mm-hmm

winters.

Oh.

We had the best fun times in the winters.

Yeah.

Listen, snow play is serious play.

Yes.

It's a good time.

And I reallyâ¦

I'm a big believer that children need
deep snow in order to fully develop.

Like they, they do- They need to be
able to dig forts and tunnels and

all- Yes â¦ kinds of stuff, and be
left outside in the cold for hours and

hours, and then only when they swear
that their fingers are gonna break

off do they need to go in the house.

Have hockey puck- And get hot chocolate
â¦ hockey pucks shot at them- Yes, exactly

â¦ because they're the little sister, so
they have to- Mm-hmm â¦ play goalie.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't relate to any of that stuff.

All those things.

Yeah, I feel bad for my kids.

I always thought- â¦ that
it was, uh, unfortunate that

they didn't experience- Yeah.

We have occasionally- â¦ an arcade
â¦ but, but nothing like what y'all

have experienced- No â¦ I'm sure.

Mm-mm.

So.

No.

Not anywhere close.

No.

Like the first two winters down
here, I didn't, I wore a jacket.

For years, I wore just,
like, a hoodie sweatshirt.

Yeah.

And Ben was like, "How
are you doing this?"

I'm like, "It's not cold."

No.

And now I'm cold constantly.

Me too.

Yeah.

So y'all, y'all just,
y'all become one of us.

We've, um- Yes.

Our blood has thinned.

Yeah.

Yes.

Um, so, uh, came to Tech, and,
um, went to work and met Fred.

Mm-hmm.

And we got married, and that's it.

I've been here.

Well, actually, move, we moved back
up to Northwest Arkansas for two

years after our oldest, um, was born.

We moved up there for a couple
years, and Russellville was home.

Mm-hmm.

So we've been back, and- And
I've known y'all for a long time.

I mean- Dylan was, I think, three when
we- Yeah â¦ started going to Life Center.

Yeah.

So- Wow â¦ I think you
probably- Yeah â¦ had him.

I did.

Yes, I did.

And, um, like I've, I, the thing,
we were in small group together.

Yes.

And y'all were into all the sports.

Yes, still are.

And I tried.

I was like, "Okay, I can listen.

I can pay attention."

I grew up listening, so, you know-
Mm-hmm â¦ 'cause, I mean, I think our

cell group all talked about sports.

Yeah.

So I was just, like,
pretending, "Yeah, it's fun."

She was pretending.

And she did play, uh- I did

church league softball with us.

I did.

I was not good.

For a year or two.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah, just 'cause-

Her brother coached â¦ I was kind
of a â¦ Probably 'cause Mickey

coached- Yeah â¦ I was like, "Yeah,
I'll do it," but I was not good.

I need photographic evidence.

Like do photos exist?

We didn't have cell phones.

Yeah.

So we didn't- Well, that's okay.

Cameras existed.

I know.

But who carried a camera
out to the- No, I did not.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

But we, um, I just remember, like-
Man â¦ y'all have always been, I mean,

constant with God, and also just very,
like, jump in there and get things done.

And I f- still feel like
you're just like that.

When I hear things about y'all,
it's just like, "You're gonna,

you're gonna get things done."

So, okay, so how long
have y'all been married?

Um, Sunday it was 35 years.

Oh, happy anniversary.

Thank you.

Happy anniversary.

Yeah.

So, um, so you met when
you were in college?

Or y'all were going to Tech?

Um, yes.

Well, he was not going to Tech.

Okay.

He worked for Frito-Lay, and I
worked at, uh, at Food 4 Less.

Oh.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we met there and- And
that's, where was Food 4 Less?

It was on- It's where Assyrian then.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

And now it's just empty.

I think maybe the county.

Mm.

I don't know what's there.

It's empty right now.

Oh, it is.

Yeah.

Okay.

Were you about to spill
s- like city secrets?

What's coming?

No, I think that they, that one
time maybe somebody had talked

about putting a new complex.

I don't know.

But I th- Oh â¦ I don't know.

I don't have that much
juicy, like literally- Yeah.

No, it's okay.

I just was teasing you a little bit.

Yeah.

I have people ask all the time is
blah, blah, blah, and I'm like,

"I don't know if it's a secret."

Like Fred really does not-
Yeah â¦ tell me that stuff.

Yeah.

And who wants to talk about it
when you get home, like- Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly.

No.

Nobody wants to talk about work.

Yeah.

Just wanna just be peaceful.

Yeah.

So how long- That's all I wanna
do â¦ has he been the mayor?

Um, it's, this is his fourth year.

Okay.

So it's an election year.

Okay.

This year.

Is he running again?

Yes.

We were just talking about how long
y'all have been married, and we

didn't really, we haven't really
said- Haven't really got into much.

Yeah.

No.

Just how y'all- Pretty
good â¦ y'all met and stuff, so.

So and just how, what- How we met.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

Well, not, not all- No, we didn't.

No.

Let's don't go into, let's
don't go into all that.

All we got to was he worked at Frito-Lay
and she worked at Food For Less.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's about all we've said, so.

Yeah.

Yes.

So, um- We can stop there.

Okay.

So what chapter in your life do,
would y'all like to talk about?

Um, I kinda think maybe right now.

Right now?

Maybe.

I'm, I'll talk about whatever, so.

Yeah.

Are we on video or are we just- No.

No, no, no.

It's not.

Okay.

Just, just audio.

I'm against video.

Okay.

Jill's not, but I am.

I've come around because
the editing is harder.

It's- Oh, yeah, that makes
sense, yeah â¦ oh, I'm sure.

Yeah.

It's very hard.

Yeah.

So what do you wanna talk about right now?

I don't know.

35 years married andâ¦

Tell us how God's got you
to this point, I guess.

Like- Oh, gosh â¦ you
know, how'd you get here?

How did you, like, how'd you get to
here, being who you are right now?

Well, so, um It's gonna be interesting.

Yeah.

You want to hear my side of- Yeah,
it's gonna be- â¦ tell the story?

It really is gonna be- Okay
â¦ interesting to see, hear what she says.

Yeah.

So, um, Fred grew upâ¦

What?

In a church.

Uh, I grew up in a little
Four Square Gospel church.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I grew up going to the Lutheran Church in
Wisconsin, I think mainly because it was

right across the street from our house.

Oh, okay.

I don't know that that was my
family's history or- Mm-hmm.

But location, location-
Location â¦ location.

Yeah.

So they are all from Iowa.

I was b- the only one born in
Wisconsin, but, um, I don't know.

I've never asked my older siblings.

Both of my parents have
passed, so I can't ask them.

But, um, I think it was probably just
because it was across the street,

so they could- It was right there

get the kids up and, you know- Send
them out the door â¦ just send them.

Yep.

Yeah.

Um, so moved to Arkansas and didn't
really get involved in church here.

Um, and then Fred and I got married, and,
um, I'll kinda let you tell your story.

As far as where, I, uh, that
we could go on for a long time,

but I- No, just the short.

Well, I don't know.

Well, you know, we lived in Rogers,
Arkansas at the time, and I, I

had felt God call in my life.

I, I just felt Him, and so I remember
getting up one night and going to

the couch and like, "Man, I'm done.

God, I just, I can't keep running."

I felt like God was,
had a call on my life.

Didn't know what that looked like, and
I just, whatever that was, I, I say I

went and surrendered to God that night.

I, that was the beginning.

I don't think it was a real surrender.

And then so, uh, at that point
in time, I started going to

church up in northwest Arkansas.

Um, and that was not good.

Uh, that was not good
for our relationship.

Um, you want me to tell
this or do you want me- No.

I- I mean, 'cause I'm not- No, I'll tell.

Okay.

But I don't know that It
would, there it was that bad.

But then we moved back here, um,
and- Did y'all immediately get

involved with Life, Life Center?

No.

Okay.

No.

Went to a different- Were you going
to any ch- You did go- I was, I,

I, I started going to Life Center-
Okay â¦ and then, you know.

Yeah.

Um, and so there was a revival going on.

Mm-hmm.

And- At Life Center?

Yes.

Who was the speaker?

What's his name?

The guy from the, it was
the laughing thing, I think.

Wasn't it?

Yes.

Yeah.

I can't remember.

Joel, uh- I know who
you're talking about, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah.

But- Kinda fuzzy here.

Yeah.

I think that was the one.

I, I can't remember if that was it or not.

It, it may not have been,
but there was a revival.

I think that was it.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

And so I don't know what
was going on with me.

Obviously, it was just, I
guess, internal struggle.

I don't know.

But I asked him to stay home
one night, and he did not.

So I, um, when he got home, I was gone.

She left.

I- And left for good

had Dylan in the car with me.

I don't know where I was going.

I had nowhere to go.

You're just mad.

I don't know.

I was just mad.

I was hurt.

I felt like he was choosing
other things over me.

Mm-hmm.

And he w- like, he should,
you know, now that I know.

Like, God's first.

Yeah.

Um, so he keptâ¦

We had a bag phone in the car.

Uh-huh.

And he kept calling, and I kept ignoring.

And I finally answered,
and, um, then we satâ¦

Was it that night that
we sat up and talked?

Mm-mm.

No.

The next night maybe.

So I get home.

Well, whatâ¦

And some people may not believe this,
but, you know, I'm sitting, I can still

see where I was sitting in the, in the
auditorium, and you know Life Center Yes.

Midway through the, um, the
message, I literally cannot breathe.

I think I'm gonna die sitting on
this bench because I can't breathe.

Wow.

My breath leaves me, and I'm, like,
about to die, and I just start praying.

And I'm assuming that's
probably when she was leaving.

And so-

We have, we have it for a reason.

Yeah.

We have it for a reason.

But, you know, so I get home
and, and she's gone with Dylan.

I mean, that's, that's a reality.

She's written me a letter.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, and so, uh, you know, the
only thing that I could think of that

night was, uh, Abraham and Isaac.

I was like

You know, Abraham put Isaac
on the altar, but it wasn't

God's will for him to be gone.

Yeah.

And for him to take him.

Yeah.

And that's all I prayed is like,
"God, this is not your will."

Yeah.

"It's not your will that my family split,
and then you take my wife and my son."

And, um, so Iâ¦

That's all I could pray.

And, uh, and then she called, and
then she came home, and, um, we,

we kinda got, got at it a little
bit there, I think that night.

And I think, I think that's the
night you always say what I said.

I don't remember- Yeah
â¦ necessarily saying it, but.

So he said, um, "I would do anything
for you except for go to Healthways."

He said, "I love you, but I, I-" Yeah.

I think I said, "I love you, but I don't
love you enough to go to Healthways."

Yeah.

So.

That's, that's really good.

Powerful.

I mean- It is powerful.

Yes.

It is also biblical.

Yeah.

And so the next day, we got
up and I was working in Ozark.

And, uh, so we went up and worked in
Ozark, and, um, we were coming back

home, um, we were in Pop's truck.

We were in Pop's truck, and
it had a little, had a little,

uh, CD player boom box with us.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, I was listening to Amy
Grant with this crazy Christianâ¦

Time that, time that back, man.

Listen.

And, and for the first time, she, she
allowed me to listen to Christian music,

'cause anytime anything faith-based came
up, it was like Godzilla and King Kong.

It was just- Yeah â¦ it was
not, it was not positive for us.

And, um, and, um, so we
go and we start layingâ¦

We lay down in bed that night, and,
uh, and we just start talking about,

we start talking about faith for the
first time without, without fighting.

And, um, probably about
2:30 that morning, um, Iâ¦

We prayed together.

And, uh, got up the next morning.

Uh, I remember the first people I
called were Arnie and Anita Burke.

Um, they had been praying with us,
praying with me, and, uh, so I called

them and I, I said, "Well, we'll go to
First Baptist," 'cause I felt like First

Baptist would be more along her lines.

Because we had gone to First--
She had gone to First Baptist

Springdale with me a few times
when we were in Northwest Arkansas.

Uh, but she said, "No, we'll go to, go to
your church that you've been going to,"

'cause it-- I was going to Life Center.

And, uh, so she, um, she,
um, she went with me and, um,

she wouldn't let go of Dylan.

No.

I mean, Dylan was, Dylan
was our security blanket.

I went up to the front and- Yeah, she,
uh- Georgeann tried to take- Yeah.

I think it was Georgeann, wasn't it?

I, I don't know.

And I was like- Nope â¦ "Nope,
this is my security blanket."

But it was, uh, it, it was pretty amazing
and, um, and that was just the beginning.

Gosh, with our journey of faith
has just been so, so long and

so multifaceted, you know.

And, you know, we went to Life
Center for a while, and then we

left Life Center for a while, and
then we c- that was back in '94.

That was in, that was in '94 when
we first started going, and then,

um, we left and came back in '96
and have been there for 30 years.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, so but it's, it's just been, umâ¦

I don't know.

It's been, it's been
interesting, to say the least.

Um, they haven't all-- I mean, we've,
uh, you know, it's been good, it's been

bad, and, uh, you know, there, there's
so many different sections of our life

that we could talk about, you know.

But to where we got
here, I don't even know.

You know, that's the beginning.

Well, I would say that we got here
because, like, immediately when we

got involved at Life Center, like,
I guess just, it's just in us.

Like- Mm.

Yeah â¦ we're not just gonna sit back
and- You have a servant's heart â¦ watch.

Yeah.

So we're just gonna jump in and
do 'cause somebody's gotta do it.

Yeah.

Yep.

And so, you know, it just went from
working in the nursery- Cleaning it.

We used to like- Yes â¦ have our
cell groups were- That we cleaned.

On a rotation- Yeah, on a
rotation â¦ to clean the

building â¦ to clean because- Huh.

Yeah.

You know, and then you look at that
and then you see the transition

of Life Center to Journey and- Yes

what, you know, you walked
through that with us.

And, uh, so that, like you said, that
transition and then, you know, becoming

elders at that point in time, uh,
being more involved and just, uhâ¦

Then the transition from, you know,
all of the, you know, you go to Journey

and then, then you've got Clarksville
campus and you've got Dardanelle campus,

and then you're like, "Hey, this is
not the way, the direction we want."

And, you know, 2000- Mm â¦ we're like,
"Hey, we're going back to a home base."

2020.

2020, we're going back to-
Yeah â¦ a, uh, home church model

and just walking through that.

Um, you know, Russ Bus coming
along in- Mm-hmm â¦ 2011,

2012, that definitely was a, uh-

I don't even know what,
how you would mention that.

That's just a, it was
something that bears mention.

Well, it shows that, you
know, you've always cared

about our city, both of y'all.

Yeah.

And you're definitely not
people who are afraid to get

in there and put the work in.

Um, I think everybody knows
that when they think of y'all.

Well, it's one thing to identify a need,
it's another to identify it, help find a

solution, help execute the solution, and
con- to continue working in that as well.

Mm-hmm.

Anybody can identify a problem.

And it hasn't always been easy for me.

No.

Um, 'cause there was, like, I think there
were a couple years that, like, we owned

the party rental company at the time.

Oh, yeah.

I forgot that you did that.

Yeah.

And so, like, there were a couple
years that, like, our business

was, like- Well, I can tell you-

down, not because there wasn't
business out there, but because he

was so, um, focused and involved.

And I don't know that you know
this number, but the first year

we started Rust Bus, our business,
our business went down $60,000.

Oh, I knew it was big.

I didn't- It, it was, you know, so
that, that's money out of our pocket.

Yeah.

So our business went down $60,000.

And so, um, at the end of the year, I
was like, "Oh, wow," you know, this isâ¦

Because I really was, back then Rust
Bus was like, I, it was, I was, well,

for, you know, really, really focused
and it was, it was really those

growing day, that, or those early days.

And so, but it cost us
a lot of money- Yeah.

Mm-hmm â¦ uh, to do that.

And, you know, it was, um, but
it cost a lot of money, but

it cost a lot of time, too.

There was, I mean, I can't tell you
the nights that, you know, the phone

would wake up, wake us up at 12:00
midnight, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning.

I would get up and go out and, you
know, um, there's, there's a lot

of nights I left her home in bed,
you know, to go out and do the

things that were required back then.

Yeah.

And I don't think that bothered me as
much as, like, just try to sit down for

dinner and the phone rings or- Yeah.

Yeah â¦ you know, and just- I
feel like nonsense, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Like you're, you're not gonna- But,
but I know â¦ share your husband with-

Yeah â¦ all of these other people.

Yeah.

And part of me is like, "God,
that's so selfish," you know?

Mm-hmm.

But then still there were frustrations,
but I know it was all- But- Yeah â¦ you

never shared- We had to find a
balance with it â¦ but you never

shared those frustrations really.

You never, you never really showedâ¦

I mean, you did it a little-
You're clueless sometimes.

That's my attitude definitely.

Well, but you know, but I, I would say
that- He doesn't see He's saying you're

being, you're being sweet- Yeah, I know

and supportive.

But no, it, it was tough and, you
know, there's a lot of, you know,

the, her and the kids made sacrifices.

You know, Victoria took the field in,
in softball a lot of times when I wasn't

there 'cause I was doing other stuff.

And, um, I look back and man, there's
a lot of regret in some of those

early years, but we all do that.

Always with all- We all do that.

All of it.

Mm-hmm.

But, but if you look now, I mean, there
was, there were lots of sacrifices made

to bring us to where we're at right now.

Uh, you look back at where Rest Bus
was and where, you know, where Rest

Bus is now, and the One Roof facility
and, uh, what God's done over those

years is just, it- it- it's phenomenal.

It just to be, uhâ¦

I still, I'm still humbled
that he'd choose me.

I, I don't know why he
chooses us, why he choosesâ¦

You know, we were at Waffle House the
other night, you know, at midnight

in Conway, and this guy literally
runs out of the building, doesn't

have a clue who I am besides the
fact that I'm mayor of Russellville.

Mm-hmm.

I've got a shirt on, and he's like,
he starts talking and he's homeless.

He doesn't know I'm, he doesn't
know I've been working with

homeless people for 14 years.

Yeah.

Has no idea.

He just comes out and we end
up praying with this guy in the

middle of Waffle House parking lot,
you know, at midnight in Conway.

It's just- Yeah â¦ just, you know,
just, you know, why does God choose me?

He always chooses someone
with a willing heart.

Like- I was just about to say that, 'cause
you're willing- Yeah â¦ and obedient.

He's, yeah.

And there's not, not everybody is.

Mm-hmm.

He sees it and he makesâ¦

You know, we, we choose to follow
God, but then when we choose that, and

this, I'm not meaning this like I'm
trapped, but we, we bind ourself to him.

Mm-hmm.

And there is nothing else we can do.

Mm.

That's good.

Because even Peter was like,
"Where, where else is there to go?"

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

"Besides right here."

I, I, I said something years
ago to Sheila Jacobs and I said,

"Love cannot not do something."

It's not phonetically right, but- Yeah.

Yeah â¦ but I mean, if you love,
you cannot not do something.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the reality is like, man.

Yep.

You know, sometimes it's
hard to do something.

Sometimes it's like, you know,
sometimes it comes easier.

Yeah.

Uh, but I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's good.

That's good.

Well, you're welcome.

Yeah.

But so all that was, like, easy for me
to just be- Behind the scenes- Mm-hmm

support, raising the kids, supporting-
Mm-hmm â¦ him behind the scenes.

And then, um, Jeff . So I wasâ¦

I'd served with the youth only because
Victoria asked me to come oneâ¦

Well, Jeremy Dugaw asked me to
come one night, um, to help.

They were doing a double night and he's
like, "We're gonna have a bunch of kids.

I need extra help."

Little did I know that he then just put
me on the schedule- â¦ and, uh, and so

Victoria's like, "Yeah, do my age group."

So I worked, um- Mm-hmm â¦ with the
kids through Victoria graduating.

So when she was getting ready
to graduate, I told Jeff, I was

like, "I, I don't like teenagers.

I like my teenagers.

I like some of their friends,
but I don't like teenagers."

Mm-hmm.

So, um, I know that I have to
serve somewhere, like I'veâ¦

So find me a place to
serve that's not with kids.

Mm-hmm.

Um, really not with adults either.

So I don't know what that means.

So I was gonna just be, um, like, I
think he, they called it the admin.

I don't know for- Yeah â¦ for the
kids- Mm-hmm â¦ um, to like make

sure the curriculum's ready and- Yeah

buy the supplies and do
the scheduling, all that.

I'm like, "Yeah, I can do that."

And then like a couple weeks later he
calls me up to the, up to his office,

um, and was like, "Hey, we're gonna,
um, hire an admin for, for our campus.

Are you interested?"

And so I was like, "Yeah,
I think I can do that."

Um, so still like behind the scenes.

Yeah.

And then he starts asking me to do these
ministry things and I'm like, "Wait, whoa.

No, I'm an admin."

He's like, "No, you're part of the team."

And I was like, "This
is so uncomfortable."

So, um, just little
baby steps, baby steps.

And then, um, then 2020 hit and we
kinda, you know, everything evolved

at Journey and Jeff and I, um, start-
launched 100 Families in Pope County.

And so again, I'm Jeff's little admin.

He- what year was that?

Was that 20- 2020.

Wow.

No, we didn't launch in 2020.

No.

We launched in 2022.

'22?

Yeah.

Okay.

2022.

I still didn't think it was-
Yeah â¦ been around that long.

I had no idea that it was that long.

We just basically heard
about it this- Yeah â¦ year.

Yeah.

It's four years.

Yeah.

So Jeff and I were full-time staff with
Journey and Steve's like, "Yeah, you do.

You know, that's what we're,
that's what we're doing.

We're gonna serve the community."

So, um, we, I think we enrolled
our first family in March of 2022

and again, I'm just tagging along
as- Mm-hmm â¦ the little admin

and doing behind the scenes stuff.

And then, um,

I don't even know.

I don't-- Just kept doing that, and
then, you know, I was Tiffany's- Yeah.

Jeff got moved on up, and Tiffany
took over as the coordinator.

So, um, I worked under her
for about a year and, um-

Trying to work into different
positions, get completely off.

The goal is to get, um,
all of us off of payroll.

And so I'm like, "Well,
what, what can I do?"

I still wanna do

stuff with 100 Families.

I love this.

Mm-hmm.

I, I just think it's amazing.

I think it's the work that- Yeah,
like it is very- It's just amazing.

The idea about- Yeah â¦ behind
it is incredible.

Yeah.

But I didn't, I'm not a, umâ¦

I didn't wanna be an advocate.

I do feel like my gifting
maybe is in admin type stuff.

So, um, I had reached out to, um,
one of the executives with Restore

Hope, and I was like, "Hey, if a
position comes open in the compliance

department, I'd love to do that."

And she's like, "Oh, okay.

I'll keep you in mind."

And so I get a call, and Jeff had
been saying, "Yeah, I think they're

gonna add somebody in a, you know,
down the road," blah, blah, blah.

Then I get a call one day for
the, um, the lady that's theâ¦

She's the department head.

What is her title?

I don't know.

Anyway, she's my boss now.

And basically just offered me like
no interview, just- Just this is

your job if you want it â¦ was like,
"This is your job if you want it."

And well, what was
funny, not funny, is God.

So probably, I don't know, a couple months
before that, I had been like, "What?"

Like either I'm gonna have to
have a job that is gonna pay like

really, really good 'cause he's
gonna have to go to doggy daycare.

Oh.

Yeah.

My dog, my Asher.

Yeah.

Um, or- Who's here with us.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, or I've gotta have a job that's
remote or will let me bring him in

the office 'cause he goes every-
Like it would be so bad for him.

We're his emotional support humans.

Yes.

Um, so yeah.

So then I get this call and,
um, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah."

So I get to work.

Um, I have been officing still
out of OneRoof, but I worked at

home this last week and I was
like, "Ooh, I kinda like that."

I can get up, brush my teeth-
Yes â¦ throw my clothes on, and

go downstairs and just get to work.

Yeah.

Um, so- Listen, it really becomes
something when you realize- She

works from home too â¦ you don't
have to put your clothes on.

Like you can just wear-
Yeah â¦ your pajamas, right?

Well, let's don't get carried away.

Well, sometimes I'm on Zoom calls,
so at least from here, you know.

Oh, love you.

Top up.

Um, so then, but of, then of course
immediately like doubt starts, wants

to creep in of like, um, a lot of
stuff is done on Excel spreadsheets.

Like I can work in an Excel spreadsheet.

I've never created an Excel spreadsheet.

I don't know how the formula is.

So I like I told the, told Kim, my
new boss, I was like, "Hey, I don'tâ¦

Like I'll learn anything.

Like I'll try to learn anything."

But, uh, she's like, "Doesn't matter.

You've got, you know, just I've worked
with them 'cause I did the invoice.

I did all that stuff on the Journey
side- Mm-hmm â¦ for 100 Families."

Right.

So they knew that I knew, you know, kind
of - Yeah â¦ how it worked and, umâ¦

So but then immediately fear's creeping
in of like, "I'm not qualified.

I can't do this.

I'm gonna get fired, and then where am I?"

Mm-hmm.

And then I was like, "Okay, wait."

God did not bring thisâ¦

Like, I didn't interview.

Yeah.

I didn't have to apply.

He, He appointed you.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I was called and given this job.

Mm-hmm.

So, like, we had talked about this, of God
will bring something along that willâ¦

And so that has eased my mind.

I've still, you know- Yeah â¦ I still
have to fight that every now and then.

Yeah.

But, so yeah, so now I'm with Restore
Hope in the stewardship and impact

department, and I'm loving it, and,
um, still, you know- Yeah â¦ in

a different way, serving families.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um.

Yeah, I think when you said that, it
reminded me of something I was listening

to and, um, we all have different weights.

It's not sin, but it's a weight
that Satan tries to put around us.

You know, we- Testing.

And what you have is not
the same as what I have.

You'd probably look at what Iâ¦

I'm like, "This is such aâ¦"

Mm.

And be like, "Why are
you struggling with that?

I mean, that's easy."

You know, but he always wants
to keep us bound, like- Mm-hmm

you know, a spirit of fear or s- you
know, spirit of intimidation or whatever,

um, not feeling good enough or whatever.

But, you know, he doesn't have any
new, new agendas of, or strategies.

I feel like he picks one thing for
one person, and then just keeps on

until- Just pick, pick, pick â¦ till
we're like, "Okay, enough," you know?

Mm-hmm.

Iâ¦

You know, you keep speaking in my
ear, well, I'm gonna speak into yours

now, you know, and tell him, tell
the harassing spirit where to go.

But anyway, that just reminded me
of that, you know, 'cause I was

like, when I hear people say what
they struggle with, I mean, a lot

of times I'm like, "Yeah, me too."

But there's sometimes I'm like,
"You know, I, I don't think I

do," but then I have other things
that- Absolutely â¦ people don't.

But yeah.

That's good.

I feel like, you know, that goes back to
what Larry Powell always said about what,

what y'all are, are you're a minister.

Yeah.

Like every member a minister.

He always pounded that into our head.

Yeah.

Always.

Yes.

I thinkâ¦

Do you not think we need to go back?

'Cause there's, when I talk about
us- Oh â¦ and pivotal points in our

relationship in 35 years, and why we are
where we're at, I think it has to doâ¦

I think the car was a turning point
of just- Yeah â¦ us realizing,

and there, it taught us so much.

So back then we didn'tâ¦

Not that we have a lot now, but back then
we didn't have, we, we didn't have a lot.

And, um, we had just put about, I
don't know, $700, $800 repair into this

little car, which was our family car,
and I felt God tell me, "Hey, listen,

I want you to give that car away."

This was our family car.

This was her car.

Felt God saying, "Hey, listen, I want,
I want you to give that car away, and

I want you to keep making the payments
and the insurance until it's paid off."

And I'm like- Boy â¦ "Whoa."

I was a stay-at-home mom.

And she's a stay-at-home mom.

And- He, he ran a business thatâ¦

It was a painting business, right?

Yeah.

Was all we had, and so, like,
we might go weeks without-

A draw?

Mm-hmm.

Wow.

And so, but I felt like
God was saying that.

And, um, so I wentâ¦

I was like, "God, man, that's crazy."

'Cause it wa- I mean, it,
it's as crazy as it sounds.

And so I, I went to her and I
said, "Hey, listen, I feel like God

wants us to give this car away."

That is a, that's a brave
man- And- â¦ right there.

But, but the thing is, and if you
know Pam, and, but this was such a

pivotal moment in our marriage, and
it really was, because Pam is a very,

very strong woman, very strong woman.

She doesn't see that, but she's
very strong, she's very wise.

But she's also one of the most submissive
women that you'll, that you'll ever

see- Mm-hmm â¦ if she understands that-
What's happening â¦ it, that it's God.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

You know, now there's times that
she says, "Maybe we need to pray,

'cause maybe you just got gas."

But, uh, but I mean,
and that's the reality.

Yeah.

But, you know, so I came to her
and I said, "Hey, listen, God

wants, I feel like God wants us
to do that," and she said, "Okay."

So literally, her family car became
a 1984 Dodge pickup without air

conditioning- Oh â¦ for four of us,
with a car seat, a child, and myself.

And so it was- Wow.

It was a, it was, it
was a really wild thing.

But then, but you look back and
then, you know, God has brought, at

that point, you know, you then, you
know, then if you remember Lonnie and

Carol Kroll, they had this littleâ¦

They had an old, I kid you n- a
1988 Chevrolet Corsica sitting

in a pasture- Oh my goodness.

that's, that's been sitting out
there for I don't know how long.

Yeah.

But the air was- But the
air was- â¦ really cold.

Oh, yeah.

The air was cold as could be.

I remember that.

And Lonnie's like, "Hey,
man, if you want thatâ¦"

'Cause he said, "It's been sitting
out there for a couple years.

If it'll start, you can have it."

Aw.

I was like, "Sweet."

So we're gonna goâ¦

I mean, this old car,
but man, she drove that.

And then, and then God brought
us, you know, God brought us a

deal on another car, and then he
brought- Well- â¦ yep, improved.

What?

But also in that time, I think
before we replaced it, I think

we still had the Corsica.

Yeah.

My dad passed away, and so, um,
all of his, um, all of hisâ¦

The trust- Asset â¦ was tied up.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Um, he was married.

It wasn't my mom.

Um, she passed away in 1986.

Um, so, um- They hadâ¦

My parents owned a
drugstore, long story short.

The, some money came in,
like $40,000 came in.

She should not have dispersed that money.

It should have gone into the
trust, but she wrote each of us

a $10,000 check, so we were able
to pay off- To pay it off, yeah

the car that we had given away.

Nice.

And so at least we didn't
have a car payment anymore.

Car payment anymore, so.

Yeah.

But then, you know, but God's provided
so many, uh, so many different

cars and just always, He's always
blessed us with- Mm-hmm â¦ with

great deals on cars since that point.

It's just one of those things andâ¦

But also, it, the, the thing there
was understanding a mutual respect

for each of us to understand
that we both hear from God.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I will tell you that if,
if she thinks I'm hearing from

God, she will go anywhere with me.

Mm-hmm.

But if she doesn't think that I'm hearing
from God, and she gives us a check, then

I'm willing to submit to her- Mm-hmm

and say, "Okay."

Yeah.

And, and she saved us more than once.

And so I think that's where Rust
Bus was maybe a struggle, but

she understood that there was a,
there was something bigger there.

Mm-hmm.

I don't think either one of us had
any idea where God was taking us.

Uh, you know, 14 years ago when we
started Rust Bus, if we had $50, we

thought we were doing good 'cause we
could buy a sleeping bag and a tent.

Mm.

This year, our insurance is
over 50,000 just for- Wow.

Rust Bus insurance is over 50,000.

And so it, it's crazy.

And then the, the whole mayor thing
was like, whoa, this is notâ¦

None of us had any idea
that that was coming.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, it wasn't-- I'd never
held a student council seat.

Uh- Yeah.

â¦ and then that wasn't, that, that
wasn't what she, she reallyâ¦

It wasn't her desire to become
the mayor's wife, you know.

Yeah.

That wasn't it, but I think she
understood that it's not about us.

It- Right â¦ you know, it's,
it, this is not, this is not us.

This is God, and He proved that.

Um, so I mean, I think it's just
understanding and by, by any means

n-neither one of us are sitting
here saying we have it figured out.

We have, we don't have a perfect marriage.

We don't.

Uh, but at the end of the day,
we've, we've committed to one another

that we're, we're in this together.

Mm-hmm.

We don't know what it looks like.

We don't know what it's gonna look like
and, you know, we're pretty confident.

We know that God's got us sitting
here for four more years as mayor.

Yeah.

Uh, we, we, we feel that
that's, that's, that's there.

I don't know where there-- I don't
know what God's doing after that.

Yeah.

You know, I had that question,
"Hey, how many terms?"

I'm like, "I, I feel one more."

Uh, you know, God could say do
something different after that, or He

could have us sit here for four terms.

I don't, I don't know, but it's
at the end of the day, wherever

He says we're going, we're going.

Uh- When He says you're
done- Yeah â¦ you're done.

Yeah, and I think that's it, and
there's, there's comfort in that.

Yeah.

There, you know, because God's
not giving us a spirit of fear.

Right.

And so there's no fear when you
understand that, "Hey, listen, God

said do this, and so we're doing it."

Uh- Mm-hmm â¦ and I think it'sâ¦

And, and He's, He's proved Himself
faithful in so many times of like, "Hey,

uh, when I tell you I'm gonna do this,"
it's like, okay, you just gotta trust Him.

Yeah.

And, and it's, it's, it's His thing,
and so, uh, I think going back to

that car, that little car just was
truly, I have to say that that's one

of those pivotal moments in our lives.

It was a test.

It, I mean- Mm-hmm â¦ it
wa- I, I don't know.

It just was something.

What are you thinking?

Well, no, I just have never heard you
say It's never clicked with me thatâ¦

'Cause we have gotten some vehicles that,
I mean, now we've driven to get them.

Mm-hmm.

Like, we've gone to
Alabama to get a vehicle.

Mm-hmm.

We've gone to Dallas twice.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but it's never clicked in my brain
that, um- That it's tied back to that-

Yes â¦ generosity and- Oh, yeah.

But, but the favor of God on
our- Yeah â¦ on our vehicles

has just been really incredible.

Yes.

Uh, just- That's awesome.

Yeah.

But I mean, but, and, and it has been.

And, and she's drivenâ¦

I mean, she went from a little Isuzu to a,
a Suburban to a, a Sienna, and then you,

you've driven, you know, you've driven
a Lexus, you've driven two Mercedes.

And I, you know, God has just ble- you
know- Yeah â¦ not that we're o- not that

we're overwhelmed with, uh, we don't have
wealth, but- All used â¦ all, all used.

Never used.

Every, everything's used.

Never a new car.

Yeah, we never buy new.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Well, the, the car that we gave away was
the only car that we've ever bought new.

That car we literally- Mm.

Yeah â¦ bought offâ¦

That, the car we gave away was the only
car we've ever bought new off of a lot.

And so, but, you know,
it's just, it's cool.

That's just like God.

Yeah.

It's ju- it is.

But I mean, it's, uh, but, but,
but if you look li- look back,

I mean, it's just like, man.

Well, 'cause you were obedient.

So.

Yeah.

You know.

He's blessed you in that area.

That's a good lesson, everybody.

Mm.

You're reaping what you've sown.

Yeah.

No, I, I, yeah, without a doubt.

I think that's true.

And so, um, I don't know, there,
but I al- I, I just don't think we

could tell our story without that.

And there's, there's a lot,
there's other things we could tell.

I don't know.

But I think, you know, looking back
over 35 years just where we've been is

just, it's, it's kinda crazy to- Yeah

I don'tâ¦

You know, we were literally this weekend,
last weekend, we were sitting in the

camper, and I talked to, I was talking to
Asher, we talked to the dog, and I was,

and the, and our- â¦ our two-year-old
granddaughter was with us, and I was

like, "Man, Asher, 35 years agoâ¦"

It was on our anniversary.

I said, "35 years ago, I'm not sure we
ever thought we would be sitting here

with a dog that controls our life and
a two-year-old granddaughter camping."

I mean, it's just, you
know, 'cause we didn't.

We'll both tell you We,
we were just having fun.

We didn't have a clue what we were doing.

We'd never- As you go back and tell
those two kids something, like, what

would you tell them if you could go back?

I don't know that I would tell
myself anything 'cause it would

probably scare me to death.

Spoil it.

Yeah.

I mean, 'cause, you know, you go
back to there, I mean, when we

first got together, um, I-- you
talked about working at Frito-Lay.

I had my life planned.

No kids, not getting married
for at least 10 years, and that,

that was honest to God truth.

Mm-hmm.

That was, that was my plan.

Now, I will say this, the first night we
ever went out, um- Your plans changed.

Well, I knew I was-- I, I, I, Iâ¦

It's hard for people to understand,
but I knew I was gonna marry

her the first night we went out.

Yeah.

And, and pardon my expression, but
that scared the hell out of me.

It did.

Yeah.

It did, and I'm sorry
if that offends anybody.

Oh.

But it, it scared me.

Yeah.

Because I was like,
"Something is different."

Yeah.

"And I, and I don't like this."

And she came down to, uh, my work one
night to break up with me because,

like, she came down to Frito-Lay.

She goes, "I need-- I wanna get
married and I wanna have kids."

What'd I say?

Trust me, babe.

No.

I did.

I, and, and here we're, you
know, and it, and here we are.

I mean, and there's been, man,
there's been some tough time, there's

been some tough times, but there's
been some really amazing times.

Um, you know, to, to, to be able to look
at our family and see the struggles,

uh, that we've gone through and, uh,
but, you know, God has been faithful.

You know, in those early years, uh,
you know, of trying to, you know,

gosh, I think back to when we were
in Rogers, um, we had one vehicle.

We had one vehicle.

Mm-hmm.

And so my vehicle was a bicycle with a,
with a seat on the back of it for Dylan.

So I would ride Dylan from Rogers
to Bentonville- Wow â¦ to daycare.

Wow.

And then I would go pick up her
car, 'cause she was driven to work.

I would, I would go put
my bicycle on her car.

I would go to work, and then I
would come pick her up afterwards,

and then we'd go pick him up.

So, you know, when I, when I
would go to church, Dylan and

I would ride on a bicycle.

So I mean, it's just- Mm â¦ we
had, we didn't, uh, we, we didn't

have hardly anything at all.

But it was just- Our splurge was Tuesday
night was half-price burgers at Sonic.

Yes.

So that's when we ate out, was
a half-price burger at Sonic.

We, we'd get eat out one day a week.

And- And then every other week
when we got paid, we would go to

Sam's and do our grocery shopping.

And look shop.

And maybe if we got a b- if it was bonus
time, we both worked for Walmart, so if it

was bonus time, we might get- Yeah â¦ a
new- I remember- â¦ pair of shoes or-

our first Christmas with Dylan, um, the,
um, we got like a f- a Norfolk Pine at

the, the Bentonville Supercenter that
was on clearance for like, little bitty

Charlie Brown tree for like four bucks.

And we spent $21 on Dylan in, at, at what
was called the associate store back then.

And we, we just, man, we
just, we didn't haveâ¦

We were, I mean, we were more
than paycheck to paycheck.

It was just, we just didn't have anything.

Mm-hmm.

But we, but, and it was because of
a product of decisions that I had

made and got us in that situation.

But, you know, but you, then you look
back and where God's, God's taken us to,

you know, be able to, over that 35 years,
to build three successful businesses,

uh, to be part of a, a family by choice-

at Journey for 30 years.

Mm-hmm.

And to be surrounded by
so many amazing people.

Uh, you know, it's just,
I mean, I don't know.

It, it, it- Two great kids.

Two amazing kids.

A great son-in-law.

A phenomenal son-in-law.

And the best little granddaughter ever.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

No, it, it's pretty amazing.

But no, I don't know.

I just, I, I don't know.

I just, I, it humbles me that God
still chooses us or that He chose

us to do the things that He did
and, you know, um, I don't know.

I don't know.

It's just, I think, um- I was
telling somebody the other night

when we walked out of Waffle House,
I said, "Man, at the end of the

day, our only job is to show up."

Mm-hmm.

Man, if we just show
up- Yeah â¦ he does it.

Yeah.

I mean, just- Yeah â¦ 'cause
the story of us getting to that

Waffle House was, was insane.

We weren't supposed to
be at that Waffle House.

Yeah.

And then this kid, you know,
chases me to the parking lot,

doesn't have a clue who I am.

It's just- Mm â¦ it's just incredible.

But I think we just gotta show up.

And, you know, if we
do show up, God willâ¦

And you go back to availability.

If you show up, he's gonna make
the op- the opportunity- Mm â¦ for

you to be, to, to be in the
right place at the right time.

Yeah.

He takes it from there.

So.

Yeah.

That's really good.

Mm.

I really liked that.

I mean, and I know y'all could share
experience after experience and,

and, you know, I feel like every
time, you know, I hear about y'all

in, in anything, it's alwaysâ¦

I'm always like, "Yeah, because
they're, they're obedient," you know?

And because you're obedient, you
see God and you, you're blessed

and, you know, you're right.

It's not always, you know, sunshine and
roses, but- You're, you're not reading

the comments on Facebook, are you Carrie?

I don't spend a lot of time on Facebook.

Good for you.

I don't.

Yeah.

Uh, because of that.

Like, I'm just like,
"Eh, I don't need that."

And- And I think that's probably
the hardest part for her.

I'm sure.

Is, is- For sure â¦ I remember
when Dad ran for sheriff- To see

the attacks â¦ oh, goodness.

I took things so much-
Yeah, to see the attacks.

Yeah â¦ so much harder
than my mom and dad.

Mm.

And, um, Mom at one point she
goes, "You're required to forgive."

Mm.

"That's the on- that's one of the
only things God requires, you know?"

I'm like, "I can't."

You know?

"I just can't."

Mm.

But, you know, I had to
'cause it's, it's required.

And that's when I learned I
don't ever wanna be involved

in pub- politics, you know?

'Cause I- Well, it's just so
frustrating because- Yeah â¦ like,

I, I mean, he's not perfect.

I know that, if anybody knows that.

Yes.

No one is.

Now, ask his mama and he,
she might say he's perfect.

Yeah, my mom, my mom's still, she's still
delusional after- But- â¦ 57 years.

Um, like when people wanna attack
his character and his integrity- Yeah

â¦ that's when I'm like You just don't know.

You, they don't know.

You don't know, and you're justâ¦

Yeah, so- No.

I have to- Yeah.

Yeah, I don't- To just- I don't read
a lot of stuff â¦ put the phone down

and- But the Word tells us so that we
don't wrestle against flesh and blood.

Yeah.

You have to recognize that it's
not those, uh, you know, 'cause

we've, we've been under attack
here really, really hard lately.

We have, we have just
majorly been under attack.

Mm.

And so I've, I've got a prayer team
that is represented by probably

six, seven different churches,
and I, and I reached out to them

and just said, "Hey, listen, man."

So one of the prayer team came back to
me and, you know, I don't, I, I don't

know who's listening to this, but,
you know, whether you bring, believe

in spirit, the spirit world or not.

But, you know, and they're
like, "Hey, I think we're

dealing with a Pharisee spirit."

Mm.

And, um, I was like, "Man,
that makes a lot of sense."

So I s- I sent that back out to
the prayer team and said, "Man,

you guys think about this."

And people came back,
and I've got people Iâ¦

You know, there's people
from your church I know- Mm

that are on my team.

And so, and they're like, "Man,
we'll, we'll pray into that and see."

And, you know, the guy called
the next morning and said, "Yeah,

I think that's exactly right.

I think we're dealing
with a Pharisee spirit."

So peace comes with that when
you, uh, when you go, "Okay."

'Cause I know I'm notâ¦

I, I know the people that
are attacking me- Yeah

are not the people, you know-
Mm-hmm â¦ 'cause here's the deal.

I believe in some of those people,
and I, and I pray for them.

I pray for all of them.

Yeah.

I pray for all of them every day
'cause I want them to know the

truth because here's the deal.

If you're, if you're being deceived about
something, I, I don't want that for you.

Yeah.

And if, and if I'm the
target, I'm the target.

It is what it is.

But at the end of the day,
I'm gonna pray for you.

Yeah.

Um, and, um, so- Yeah.

I mean, and people are people.

They, they are.

They are.

I ask you all the time, are
there gonna be people in heaven?

Yeah.

'Cause- Unfortunately, there are.

Exactly.

Every time I'm like, "Yeah."

Yeah.

We might be shocked of,
of some of them that are.

Yeah.

No, and I, I think a lot of
people are gonna be shocked

at who's, who's gonna make it.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

Because- Well, I remember one
time, uh, you know, there was one

specific lady who was against my
dad, and I don't even remember.

I'm not gonna remember the details
of what she said or did or whatever.

But one time I was really having
a hard time, had nothing to

do with the dad or anything.

Mm.

But I was sitting in my office,
and I was like, "God, just

send somebody to pray for me.

Somebody, please."

And I'm surrounded by all these ministers,
but I'm not gonna go and ask them.

Mm-hmm.

And so what- And she comes in my
office, and I was like, "Hey."

And she goes, "I just wanna pray for you."

And I was like- I was like, "Okay."

I let her pray.

You know, she asked me some
questions that I answered.

Uh, she left, and I was
like, "Are you kidding me?"

Give me God.

Really?

And I feel like He was like, "I will make
even your enemies at peace with you."

Yeah.

And I was likeâ¦

I, I mean, I felt like He was
laughing too, but I was like- I

know God has a sense of humor.

Oh, He does have a sense of humor.

For sure.

Yeah.

You know, uh- That's when you wanna pout.

Yeah.

Just like, yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

That's what it's gonna be like.

But I'm, she's a Christian.

Yeah.

Like, you know, I knew she said
she was, and, you know, like, after

that, I was, I was really humbled.

Yeah.

Like, I was like You know?

But yeah, it's, it's tough, but you do
have to look at it and spiritualize and

not- And it, and it makes a difference.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll, I'll be
the last person to tell you that, that I

don't lose sleep, that, you know, because,
or, or it, that it doesn't bother me- Yeah

'cause it does, man.

Mm-hmm.

I, I know that it hurts her and it hurts
my, my, my daughter and, but, um, at the

end of the day, it's all about God, man.

Mm-hmm.

It is.

Man, you know, I know
I'm here because of Him.

There is no other reason.

You, you can't tell me, um, that I'm
here for any other reason except for

God, and that's what I, you knowâ¦

I- it is frustrating for, like you say,
people to go, "Well, he's, you know, he's

not a believer, he's a liar, he's this or
that," and I'm like, man, do you not know

who my c- do you not know my character?

And I'm not perfect.

I, I'll be honest-
Mm â¦ with you, I amâ¦

If it weren't for Jesus Christ and Him
alone, I, I'm, I'm, I'm done, I'm toast.

But because of Him, uh, and, and what
He's done in my life, uh, I'm like, man,

just i- i- i- if it i- it is frustrating.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, you know,
you just keep plugging and you show

up, and, and God's like, "Man, I got
you-" Yeah â¦ "at Waffle House at

midnight, and you don't even know it."

Well, and I think- You
know, when you're struggling

just, I mean, even before you were in
relationship with God, there was an

instance where we were, I mean, we were,
we were broke, and we pulled up atâ¦

Was it a PDQ that you said?

It was an Exxon.

Exxon.

It was Exxon Exxon or Mart.

Yeah.

And there was a guy there that he
had known from years ago, I think

it was bef- we had moved back
from Bentonville at that time.

Yeah, we moved back to Bentonville.

And, um, he came out to the
car and he goes, "I need $100."

Um, I owed him money from
like- How did that guy money?

â¦ years ago.

And the guy probably never saidâ¦

He didn't ask for it.

No, he didn't ask for it.

And I'm like, "Oh, my God."

Like $100 then was like- Was a
lot â¦ yeah, $2,000 for us right now.

Yeah.

And, uh, so I struggled.

Like, I struggled with that-
Yeah, yeah â¦ really hard.

Um, but that's just who he is,
is that's just the integrity of-

Mm-hmm â¦ he owed that guy money,
and He was gonna pay it Yeah.

Take care of it.

That's been good.

Um, and we're, and we're
kind of running out of time.

Mm-hmm.

But we do like to ask, um, our, our,
uh, people who are on here a question.

You can ask it.

I asked the last one.

You go.

Okay.

Um, if you could go back in time to
any Bible story besides the crucifixion

and resurrection and witness it
real time, participating or not,

uh, what would you want to witness?

I thinkâ¦

Sorry.

Um, one of my favorite, uh,
'cause I kinda knew- Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause Tiffany told me.

That's very good.

Um, and I've thought about this,
and I think, um, I would love

to, like, shadow Queen Esther.

Oh.

That's good.

Nice.

Yeah.

Um, 'cause, you know, such an unlikely-
Yes â¦ little girl changed the world.

Yeah.

And y'all both are here
for such a time as this.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

In this moment.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I, I smiled, but probably my favoriteâ¦

You, you probably know what I'm saying.

I know.

I know what he's gonna say.

God, why am I crying?

It's okay.

That's what happens in
this room, I'm telling you.

Yeah.

Um- Yeah â¦ Simeon is probablyâ¦

That's a good one.

It is good.

Well- No one said it â¦ well, because
that's the first time I think that

anybody acknowledged who Jesus was.

Mm-hmm.

He knew- Yes â¦ that this was the Savior.

Yeah.

And he's like, "God, I can go now."

And waiting on it.

He, he was- Yeah.

Yeah â¦ waiting, and he, and he,
and he held the salvation of the

world, and that was the first person.

I don't think Joseph- Mm â¦ and
Mary fully comprehended it yet.

Probably not.

But he was the one that recognized- Mm-hmm

Yeah All's good now.

Yeah.

The completion.

That's so good.

Yeah.

That is so good.

And so I think that's probably, I
don't know, to be able to see that,

to be able to witness that and
just- Yeah â¦ or maybe ask him,

"Wow, how'd you get that revelation?

How'd you know that?"

Yeah.

So I think that's, that's probab-
There's so many, there's so many places.

Oh.

There's so many stories that you can do.

Yeah.

But man, I think probably Simeon's
probably one of my, one of my

favorite, favorite stories.

That's good.

Yeah.

Both of those are very good.

Yeah.

Like, but don't get discouraged.

Mm-mm.

You have people behind you.

Nope.

Yeah.

And we do.

Praying for you.

And it's just, I mean- And I know
you're not, I don't feel like you

are- Like, oh, no, I'm not gonna lie.

Are discouraged, right?

I'm not gonna lie to you.

I get discouraged.

Yeah.

I get afraid.

She could tell you, I come home
and the weight of the world's on

me, and I'm like, "Ah," you know.

She's like, "What's going on?"

And youâ¦

I mean, 'cause, you know, if
you got 250 employees, first

off, you got 250 employees.

Yeah.

And so people are, people are tough.

And then so you've got those,
those weights of the decisions.

You've got the weight of making the
right decision and representing and-

Yeah â¦ and you know, what, what a
group of people may not understand is

You know, I may not agree with everything
that goes on, but at the end of the

day, my job, I've sworn to uphold the
Constitution of the United States.

Mm.

Yeah.

And so we're all created and we all have
all of those rights- Mm â¦ given to us.

So I can't take those rights-
No, you cannot â¦ away from

someone- Mm-mm â¦ because I don't
agree with what they're doing.

Yeah.

Right.

So you can't discriminate against someone
even though somebody says, "Man, I wantâ¦

You should do this."

I'm like, "Well, no, I can't do that
because"- Yeah â¦ you know, then

they, and they literally question you,
"Well, are you loyal to Christ or not?"

And I'm like, "Well, yes, I'm loyal to
Christ, but at the same token, you've

elected me to this position and I've
sworn to uphold the Constitution."

And so- Well, even God gives us free will.

Yeah.

Like, you know, it's- Also,
who did Jesus hang out with?

Yeah.

Who am I hanging out with?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Our job is to be Christ-like-
Mm â¦ and to show God's love.

Yeah.

And, and- And then that's,
that's where that ends.

But everybody has different versions
of what Christ-like looks like.

Right.

And then you, and then you
get into, you know, so it,

it, it's, it's- But it's
not my job to police- Yeah

your walk.

Yeah.

It's not my job to police anybody else's.

You can't legislate morality.

Correct.

You can't legislate morality.

Yeah.

If we could, we would all, we'd, I
mean, every- everybody'd be moral.

You just, but you can't.

Well, if we could, we'd
have messed that up too.

Yeah.

We probably, yeah, that's true.

For sure.

True.

But, uh- 'Cause whose morals?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Whose morals?

And that's it.

Whose morals?

Yeah.

Whose morals?

So.

That's true.

Hey, this was fun.

I'd like to come back
again if we get some time.

Absolutely.

And I'll try to be on time.

No, it's okay.

It's totally fine.

You know, we got to have
fun with her and, and- Yeah

visit with her.

That I'll, I'll have to listen to that.

Oh, you have to listen.

I love that first little part.

He-- It was so cute watching
him, like, doze off.

Yeah, he was trying so
hard to stay with it.

He's like, "I'm trying."

Yeah.

Well, he was at the groomer this
morning until about, I think

I picked him up around 2:00.

I don't know.

But anyway, like, that kind of
activity- It takes it out of

him fast â¦ it wears him out.

It's like a little toddler, huh?

Yes.

Like he had a hard, fun day.

Yes.

Yeah, which is just tells
you what his normal day is.

Yeah.

Like, he just sits in my office chair.

And protects y'all.

A lot of times he sits right behind me.

I'm like, "My back is screwed up because
I'm sitting on the edge of my chair

trying to type with the dog behind me."

That's funny.

Beauty.

You definitely have sold
me on the next- Yeah.

Tabernacle meeting â¦ Tabernacle
meeting in Boston, huh?

Oh, yeah.

He changed.

Did you, did you tell the
story about him and how- Yes

how he was a blessing?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

No.

I was just, I mean, just, just God.

Yeah.

I mean, just, it's just crazy, so.

Yeah.

He's been wonderful.

You, you do get discouraged, but man,
when you just see God just show up, uh,

time after time after time, it's just, um,
it's, it's kinda- Amazing â¦ it's cool.

Yes.

Yeah.

But he is good and he is faithful.

Yes, he is.

Always.

All right.

Well, thank y'all for being with us.

Sure.

We'll see you next time.

Thanks for having us.

Okay.

Thank you.

Bye

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