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The lizards pair the My Father The Judge in Toro with Robert Craig Howell Mountain Cuvee. The guys discuss questionable cigar marketing, pairing various wines with both cigars and food, and the perils of driving with boxes of cigars on the roof of your car.
Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo and tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Pagoda and bam bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some wine, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 23rd official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard plan here. Once a week, we're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating.
We discuss questionable cigar marketing, pairing various wines with both cigars and food, and the pitfalls of driving with boxes of cigars on the roof of your car, all among a variety of other things for the next hour. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair Robert Craig, Hal Mountain Cove with my father, the judge in Toro.
A Toro Gordo [00:01:00] tonight from my father, the judge. This thing looks like a Snickers bar. Massive, like a sledgehammer. I . I am very intimidated. I gotta be honest. , these have been in my humidor for some time now. Yeah. Acclimating, bam. I think probably what, three, four weeks since you got 'em, right? Yeah. They do feel good.
They feel good. Yeah. They're certainly, when we got them they were pretty wet, but now they feel good. I mean, this is, to me, a lot of guys go for this. To me, this is an intimidating cigar.
**Bam Bam:** I like it in the shorter, little smaller
**Gizmo:** size. Yeah. They call that the Grand Ribo. This one they call me. It's tasty. Yeah.
It's the, it's, I guess it's a Toro Gordo. It's um, six by 56. It is a beefy big stick. It's got three bands on it. Going back to the EP choreo, we talked about the foot. . It has one of those on it, which is made of like a fabric. And then it has the, uh, the, my father band and an mf the judge band. So nice
**Bam Bam:** rustic kind of.
It's a clean construction, but a little bit [00:02:00] rust
**Gizmo:** rustic. It looks, it looks very nice. It does. Nice wrapper on it. Yeah. Smells great. But
**Bam Bam:** Senator, I can't place the aroma on the foot. It's good, but it's, I can't place
**Senator:** it. Yeah, I just said it. It's the, the foot of this cigar smells actually really good. Yeah.
And I say this cuz I think we're all a little skeptical and intrigued as to what we're gonna get out of this giant stick, but the, the foot you get like chocolate. It's weird
**Bam Bam:** but tasty. Nice. Aroma glasses. Yeah. That's a good, yeah. Maybe a little raisin.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. All right, let's cut this thing. My father mf the judge on the band.
Six by 56 attractive bands. Yeah, it looks good. Bands look nice. Say, um. Nick, uh, Ecuadorian Sumatra wrapper. Nicaraguan, uh, binder and Nicaraguan Filler from various regions. Yeah. Take the foot band off. Toro. Godo. Yeah. Take the foot band off before you light it, please. [00:03:00] Senator will be getting a fire extinguisher out tonight.
I mean, it's, it's like a chocolate bar in your hand. It's, it's to me. I, like I said, I know a lot of guys go for these, this size cigar. This, I would thank God for the pod. This would never have been smoked in my existence had it not been for this
**Senator:** podcast. I, I will say, every time I pick up every ti I don't pick up, every time I see a Toro, I think of pagoda.
I feel like that's one of his favorite Violas. Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** That
**Pagoda:** used to be like, uh, now, uh, I'm expanding my horizons, like to say , but, uh, haven't said that yet. This, uh, you know, uh, Toros, uh, pretty much my go-to size and even Gordos, like I really liked, uh, the A L R, which is also considered a Gordo and. Yeah.
Torres is, uh, used to be a very common we size. Yeah. Here we go. .
**Gizmo:** All right. What are you guys getting on the cold? Draw this thing. It's a nice cold draw. It's sweet. Chocolatey.
**Bam Bam:** It could be a promising
**Gizmo:** smoke. Well, I, I, you know, again, I, I am, [00:04:00] I'm more than, uh, I, I, more than anything, I'm intimidated by the cigar.
It's just not, it's just not something I would go for. It's not comfortable to me in my hand, but I guess we'll see how it smokes. Let's light this thing. This is a pep and Garcia's. It is Dawn. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We can go through the, the family history and stuff. There's some cool stories about it. Um, but, uh, yeah, six by 56, like I said, comes in another size, A grand Ra, robusto that, bam, bam.
Mentioned. Bam. I think this is probably as close to the famous double Toro as you
**Bam Bam:** can get. , the, it's a unicorn, man. .
**Gizmo:** Yeah. This is a big stick man. Bam. How much did you pay for these? Uh, it's
**Bam Bam:** been a while. Maybe 16, 17, A six. Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** That's kind of what I'm seeing online. What's interesting about this, as we toasted here, this comes in a box of 23 cigars.
Oh, I didn't know that. I've never seen that before. Yeah. So, you know, you know, you, you normally get a box of 20, 25. Yeah. Some come in 24th. I've never seen boxes at [00:05:00] 23.
**Bam Bam:** I've never purchased a box of these. Yeah. Always singles.
**Gizmo:** All right, here we go. Let's see where we're getting.
**Pagoda:** I didn't get much flavor at all.
**Bam Bam:** It's actually quite pleasant right now. Yeah.
**Senator:** It's, it's not aggressive to start. No, that was my big fear, honestly, letting this up, that it was gonna be just smack you in your face, but not bad.
**Gizmo:** I'm not getting a ton of flavor though.
**Bam Bam:** You will on a retro hale a little bit. I think that molasses raising profile
**Gizmo:** works here. Yeah. Little molasses. Mm-hmm. , just a touch of milk chocolate maybe. Yeah, just a touch. Quite nice. Yeah. So my father has an interesting story. They were, uh, they were [00:06:00] started in the 19, in 1950 when Jose Pepin Garcia, he was in, he was a Cuban, uh, like many of our new world cigar makers were, started in Cuba and, uh, started rolling cigars himself at 11 years old, which wouldn't happen today.
Of course. He's a lizard. He's a li
he is. And, um, then he, uh, decided in, in 2003 in little Havana to start the My Father Cigar brand. . So started in Little Havana, obviously as, as a Nicaraguan cigar rolled in Nicaragua. Um, it's a, uh, my father is a, uh, collaboration between him and his son, a combo offering from Jose and Jamie Garcia, his son, Jamie Garcia.
Yeah, that's, so what's cool about this, I saw that, uh, this cigar is actually named, uh, after a friend of the Garcia family, who's a judge. So that's where they got the, I've always wondered why is it [00:07:00] mf the judge? Um, and I guess it's a, uh, a friend of the Garcia family, this, uh, obviously box pressed as we can feel.
Um, what are you guys getting so far? It's very smooth, very balanced.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. Surprisingly right.
**Senator:** It's not aggressive. I'm just getting a little bit of cocoa, little nuttiness, little salty on the finish, and that's it. But not, not super flavorful, but enough flavor. Yeah. .
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I, I was about to say it's a bit earthy.
I think the saltiness is definitely there.
**Bam Bam:** It is. There it, I don't hate it. Yeah. It's not offensive
**Gizmo:** in any way. They obviously make a bunch of cigars. We talk, we were talking before we came on about the, uh, Le Bou. Yeah. And, and Senator Revolted when, when he heard that
**Senator:** I still have ptsd. T s D from that cigar
I'm, I'm not kidding. I, I was in DC one night and, uh, we had dinner and [00:08:00] a few cigars with dinner is at a place where you can smoke. And, uh, we left and then decided, oh, maybe one more smokes. We went to another cigar lounge nearby, and after several drinks, I just foolishly, they had a list of ca top, like 10 cigars that year.
And that le uh, labio cigar was one of. So I said, oh, I've never had this before. And I asked the guy, he said, it's a great cigar, you'll love it. So I just ordered it and oh my God, the amount of nicotine and strength in that cigar after I had probably had four sticks before that , I felt horrible. It was not an enjoyable experience, but if that's gonna be your only stick and you want an absolute flavor bomb mm-hmm.
then that's your cigar, but not a cigar for me.
**Bam Bam:** Gizmo, what's the smaller shape? What's the viola?
**Gizmo:** It's a, uh, five by 60. So it's actually a, what's it called? Thicker ring gauge. Um, it's just, I think they call it a grand
**Bam Bam:** rib robusto. Yeah. So I, I've had that cigar many times. A liberi in that size. It's, it's, it's very nice.
**Gizmo:** Now we're looking at this, this is [00:09:00] 56 ring gauge. Yeah. That's a 60 at five inches long. Yeah, that's, I mean, I mean, obviously catering to the, the market, we know guys that go for these cigars, that love these cigars. I,
**Senator:** I'm just saying they're all, they're all lawyers and judges. .
**Gizmo:** I'm just, I, I just like a smaller ring gauge.
I mean, . I can't even in Padron or Davidov, uh, you know, Davidov I don't think makes anything like this crazy big, but Pedro has that number four. Uh, the next Oh, Davidoff does what, what does
**Senator:** Davidoff have? The Davidov Piquant comes in a Gordo. Oh, I didn't know that. That's one of the only s Yeah, there's another, you
**Rooster:** know, that came in as
**Gizmo:** 60, I think.
Yeah. I just don't reach for cigars that big ever. Gimme a 46. I'm happy. Yeah. I know a
**Pagoda:** lot of people who really like, uh, you know, the gordos and the, and the tourisms and, you know, 56 and above. Um, yeah. Um, it's interesting. I I used to do a lot of those as well.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. [00:10:00] I got, I gotta say, I think this really benefited from being in the humidor for three to four weeks.
Um, they were spongy when we first got there. They were definitely spongy, but I mean, the razor sharp burn on it, I feel like had they not come down in humidity from where they were, um, I think that definitely would've
**Bam Bam:** had a problem here. And I think that may have something to do with the pleasantness of this cigar, cuz I've had this at shops.
Yeah. It's had more bite really? I think so. I think so. This is this, I'm actually enjoying this cigar right now. I can't say that I hate it.
**Gizmo:** So the Garcia
**Rooster:** family, I think rolls most are, if not all the tattoo eyes.
**Gizmo:** That's, I think that's true. Oh wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Or is it the jc, JC Newman? No, it's like Garcia.
It's Garcia's. He Garcia Got it. You know,
**Pagoda:** there was, um, my father's cigar, they did it for David Os.
**Gizmo:** That's just, that's, that's a negative. This just coming . No, they, or,
**Pagoda:** or it might [00:11:00] have been for the Davidoff
**Gizmo:** lounge. very well could be
**Pagoda:** in the city. In the city, yeah. Yeah. I've never heard that. Yeah. No, I'm,
**Gizmo:** I'm, you know, oh, you're saying my father made a like for some, like a Davidoff lounge special or something for that.
Yeah. Um. That would surprise me. I'm sure they sell a shit lot of these.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, a lot of people really like that. They do.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And I mean, for the size, and I'm sure this is gonna be a long smoke. I mean, we'll see where it takes us, but for the size 16, 17 bucks. Yeah. I mean that's a good value. That is a good value so far.
I think the flavor is, is it's not offensive, as PBO would say. It's not offensive. Not
**Senator:** know. Not offensive. Yeah. I think the thing I'm encouraged by is O obviously for a number of us, we don't like this large of a ring gauge, so we're not thrilled with the size, but that has nothing to do with the cigar.
Right. That's just what BA was able to find at a local retailer. Yeah. If this were in a ring gauge that I'd like to smoke so far, I, this would be enjoyable. This is not all,
**Rooster:** this is not what I was
**Gizmo:** expecting. Me neither. Yeah, me neither. Absolutely. I
**Rooster:** was expecting absolutely bold, spicy. Yeah. You know, [00:12:00] a lot of flavor.
This is like, I mean, it has flavor, but it's very balanced, very like medium.
**Bam Bam:** Have, have you had this before? Long time back. Probably a long time back. Yeah. I think those of us that have had it haven't had it in a long time. We forgot about it.
**Gizmo:** And from what I remember,
**Rooster:** like, like you just said earlier about the, uh, having, you know, a bit of a bite.
Mm. I mean this one doesn't,
**Gizmo:** no,
**Bam Bam:** no. The gizmo tower is calibrated. It
**Gizmo:** is very proud of my tower. Is it cat
**Bam Bam:** nip or cat litter? .
**Gizmo:** Jesus actually. Little beads. . Silica beads. Silica beads. Yeah. That's the cat lit. That's what I use. I like that. Silica, cat litter, sil, silica, cat litter. So these came out, um, I, I would've thought these were long, you know, for how much I've heard about them.
I, I, I would've thought these have been out for a while. These only came out six years ago. November 16, they were announced at that trade show that year and then started rolling out November of that year. So, [00:13:00] um, yeah,
**Pagoda:** no, so there seems to be like, uh, my father David of, uh, Beso and um, Just reading a little bit about it.
Uh, it's the cigar with the joint venture between David o's gm, which is Michael Hilos and the Garcia family, I believe. Yeah. Michael Hilos
**Gizmo:** is, was, yeah. He has stereo Tego, right? Yeah. So he used to work for Davidoff. He used to work for Davidoff, and then he bought, uh, well it was the Nat Sherman, two of the Nat Sherman lines.
Right. Timeless and, well, he worked for Nat Sherman. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** After a David obviously moved to Nat Sherman and a Nat Sherman. Yeah. He was the VP of development for Nat Sherman, so, got it. And, uh, it seemed like, uh, yeah, he collaborated with the Garcia family to come up with w I guess my father, uh, David of Beso.
**Gizmo:** Interesting. Never saw that anywhere. Yeah, no,
**Pagoda:** I just remember I used to smoke a lot of Nat Sherman and, uh, [00:14:00] quite a few people would smoke my father then. And uh, I remember them talking about, have you tried. , uh, the, my father version, which they're done with David or for, for David, or, and it, it's one of those things, you know, we are talking about it a few years later and it just was somewhere in my mind and it just came out as a common, but it seems like, uh, that's true.
So I've never tried it
**Gizmo:** though. I, I have a weird note. I'm curious if any of you guys are getting this. I, I want to use the word like, not mint, but something very similar in my mouth.
**Bam Bam:** Uh, I, like, for me it's a metallic almost. There's
**Gizmo:** something like, yeah, I don't, I don't know what that flavor note is. It's not like minted like,
**Senator:** yeah, I, I guess I see a little what, to me, it's an earthiness in the cigar, but I, I, i, if it is mint, it's very slight.
But I, I see what you're saying
**Bam Bam:** actually goes well with what we're drinking right now.
**Gizmo:** So let's talk about that because I haven't had a sip yet. The earthiness of the cigar war, I'm very excited about it. So we have a little red wine [00:15:00] tonight from Senator Seller and, uh, before we came on, He was so nervous that we were gonna love this and go out and buy every bottle in town.
He ordered himself another case. This is true .
**Bam Bam:** Jesus. Some of us do like to buy things in bulk. In bulk. I
**Senator:** mean, look, this, this is where wine differs from any spirit, right? Macallans gonna taste the same every single year for hopefully the rest of our lives. In wine. It's all vintages. And once that vintage sells out, you will never be able to buy it again.
So when you find a vintage you like, you make sure you stock up on it. And I know I like this vintage, so I said, well, shit, if I'm gonna share it with the lizards and anyone else tries to buy some, I may as well stock up another
**Gizmo:** case. What's good about it, guys, is if we like it, he has 12 bottles coming, we can just split it amongst us.
there you go. Everybody can get three or four before. That's why I got it. That's
**Bam Bam:** perfect. What, before you launch into the wine details, I like that there's a dryness to it. I love that. It's
**Senator:** fantastic. So I'm so glad you picked up on that. Uh, bam. Yeah, [00:16:00] because I, I mean, look, You know, California wines are extremely fruit forward.
Hmm. That's really nice. And my palate a and then French wines are very dry. And my palate, I like somewhere in between. So this is, so what we're drinking, it's Robert Craig Howell Mountain Cove. It's uh, uh, red, uh, Bordeaux style blend. And so, you know, this being a blend, a Bordeaux style blend, it, it's drier than your typical Napa cab, but still has some of those fruit notes that you're gonna get.
The dark fruit notes that you would get from Napa. And the wine is sourced from Hal Mountain, which is one of the two best cabernet growing regions in all of Napa. That and Stag Leap are the best and the price point of this being a blend. with grapes from that region is super affordable because anything from how a mountain starts at like 120 plus a [00:17:00] bottle, like that's just the entry point.
And so to be able to find something that is significantly less than that, that I think is very fairly reasonable for anyone to go pick up in a, in a wine shop, um, dollar for dollar. I, I really like this one.
**Bam Bam:** How much, I'm sorry.
**Senator:** How much is a bottle? So it, it retails at 50, but if you buy in quantity, I've gotten it as cheap as 35
**Gizmo:** a bottle.
I am surprised to hear that dude.
**Bam Bam:** For a blend. It's a complex, it tastes and drinks like a very complex wine. It does, yeah. That the dark, the um, like the current I get, yeah. Current. And that dryness, it creates a very nice, complex mixture.
**Gizmo:** Beautiful. I like that. It's not super sweet. Well, the fruitiness is nothing forward with you said.
Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, I like that. I mean, and I think the cigar, not to go back to the cigar, but just a quick note about the pairing. I think it, the cigars really benefiting from. the flavor profile of this wine.
**Bam Bam:** And I get in the wine a little bit of an earthiness to it, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it works with this, with the earth tones of the stick.
Yeah. Quite that, that's the thing. Quite
**Senator:** cool. [00:18:00] It, it's hard to find a bottle of wine under $50 where you're gonna get complexity. Like, you know, we all love Obon as an everyday bottle, but what that is, is just a fruit forward wine. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's all you get out of. It's
**Bam Bam:** delicious. But it's not a complex wine.
**Senator:** Not at all. No. Tasty. But like you said this, you get the dark fruit, you get current, like bam said. Yeah. You get some earthiness out of it, and on the finish you're actually gonna get some cocoa. Ooh. That's a complex wine. And it's not super sweet like a lot of Napa wines are. And so for my, I, I really, really like this.
This was one of the bottles I served, uh, with Thanksgiving, uh, this past Thanksgiving. Nice. Fantastic. So
**Rooster:** what, do you know the blend?
**Senator:** Uh, that's a great question.
**Gizmo:** So while you're saying that the thing I, I want to say about this, this wine as a novice, um, I only know what. We've all kind of been learning together on the pod here about wine.
I just, I'm not a, a wine guy neither. I, I think this is a wine that cigar smokers could really appreciate, cuz it's not, um, it's not [00:19:00] pushing too hard to overtake your mouth and drown out whatever your cigar is doing. Dare dare.
**Bam Bam:** I dare I say it's a more masculine wine kind of feel that way because of the dryness.
What
**Senator:** does that mean, ?
**Bam Bam:** I don't know what, like you said, it's not fruit forward, right? So it's not very sweet. It, it's just
**Senator:** personal taste. I mean, there are women I'm sure who like, you know, dry wine, like
**Pagoda:** please consider gender equality . You
**Bam Bam:** got it. . I retract my statement.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. This is, this is very, very good. Um, Senator, I, you know, I know it's luck because you haven't had the cigar before, right? Or it's good pairing. It's a nice, it's a really nice pairing with this. It is, you know, it really is because this cigar is not as strong or as full yet as I would've expected. . Hmm.
Agree. So, I, I think it's working quite well.
**Senator:** So yeah, to back to Russ's question, I mean, they don't specify, uh, they don't divulge the percentages of each. But a typical Bordeaux blend has Cab merlo, cab ca, [00:20:00] uh, Cabernet Mignon, Merlott, Cabernet Franc Malbeck, and Petite Verdot. So there's some combination of those Oh, wow.
Um, in this blend. But the cab I know is from Hal Mountain because, um, Robert Craig, they make a cabernet from Hal Mountain. It's like 120 something a bottle. Um, and that's, that's where their property is. That's obviously where the grapes are from. So that's why, for me, I'm always looking for, you know, when you can find a really good value in wine and that's when you wanna stock up.
And for 35 bucks, if you buy in quantity, I don't think you'll find a better bottle of red wine.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, that's great. So what are you pairing this with food wise? Like you, you said you had it with Thanksgiving. Aspect of Thanksgiving dinner. Like for the listener out there who's thinking, you know, I'm gonna Right.
Chicken savo, , , oh Jesus. Dry chicken savo. Um, where, what, what are you pairing this with? Yeah,
**Senator:** so really anything that you want, some structure with the, the, the meal that you're having, but you don't necessarily [00:21:00] want too much or aggressive structure. So like for me, there are certain wines I'm gonna reach for when I'm having a steak because that's when you want something super bold when you're having, you know, Turkey on Thanksgiving and a whole bunch of, you know, savory sides.
Or if you're having, um, pork loin. Pork loin, if you're having chicken, if you're having even a heavier fish like salmon, um, you know, and you're really wanting red wine, you don't want something that's gonna overpower that because none of those foods are particularly heavy like a steak would be, or any sort of red meat.
So that's what I was looking for and that's why I prefer to serve a blend. For a red on Thanksgiving as well as a pinot, which is obvi an obvious choice, um, as opposed to just a hundred percent cab where it's gonna be a lot more aggressive, um, that may overtake the meal. For me personally,
**Bam Bam:** sorry, I prefer a drier wine with a steak.
I think this would pair well for me personally with a really beautiful cut of meat. Hmm.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. [00:22:00] It tastes, taste, tastes like a, like a French wine.
**Rooster:** Yes. Not, not, you know, it's not, not from, like, not, that's right. Not an Napa Valley.
**Gizmo:** Yes, yes.
**Bam Bam:** European wines are, are drier. Right. So, yeah, that's exactly what it's like.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I find it to be very satisfying too. Like I feel like I'm sipping it slower than I would like an Oberon or something that's fruit forward. Like I feel like I'm, I, my mouth is at like once less.
**Senator:** Yeah. Then like, it, it coats your mouth in a way that, you know, o Ober on a very simple cab. It, it just drinks.
So Easy's not, you just keep going. Keep, it's not rich, it's not viscous. Like, you know, you, you've heard when we've done done sketches, just literally just go like this in your glass and you're just gonna see how it kind of clings to the glass. Like there's some viscosity to it. And so it's just that structure that you drink it slower, you appreciate it more.
Um, but I'll say bam, I mean with a steak, they're how mountain cab just pure. A hundred percent. I am gonna
**Bam Bam:** try
**Senator:** that. So good. I'm gonna try that. And I've got plenty more. How, uh, Cade, I'll take one. Cade is the best vineyard in Howell Mountain in my opinion. I think a lot of people agree with me on this. [00:23:00] and with a steak.
How mountain? Uh, sorry. Cade. How? Mountain Cab Oh wow. Is outstanding. Wow. I've ordered it. I usually order that in a steakhouse if it's on their menu. Really good bottle of wine. Fantastic.
**Bam Bam:** Good to know.
**Gizmo:** So this is, uh, for its size, it's certainly burning a lot faster than I expected. And I mean that in a good way, but it's sharp.
Like I'm not very crisp burn. Right? Yeah. Nice. I'm not having to touch it up. I'm not good Construction. And the Ashe is really
**Bam Bam:** holding on too. The note hasn't changed. It's a consistent profile, right? So far. Yeah, so far. Single note.
**Gizmo:** Pretty wild.
**Bam Bam:** I think a good cigar.
**Gizmo:** That is good. Yeah. I think because of its size, I don't think that I would probably reach for this again. Mm-hmm. . Um, but yeah, the, it's, it's not, I mean, all the things, I think we came in thinking about the cigar. I, I think we have been dispelled. Yeah. We were wrong. I certainly was. Yeah.
A lot of flavor.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:00] Consistent though. Yeah. Single
**Senator:** note. I'm really shocked by this cigar. Yeah. I honestly thought I was gonna hate this.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, me too. Oh yeah, . I know. Puba thought he was gonna hate it. .
**Senator:** That's why I didn't show up .
**Gizmo:** Damn.
So, uh, I saw, by the way, speaking of New World's Senator, I know that you and, uh, pagoda both took advantage, but I see a lot of, uh, a lot of retailers. I'm getting a lot of notifications on stuff I've been looking for that they're starting to pop up a little bit more than they've been over the last year.
Like, I've gotten 3, 4, 5 notifications in the past week of like, Hey, the product you were looking for is available. Be a patron, davidov, you know, TAA even. Um, so I I, that's a good sign to me that, that maybe there's some normalcy on the horizon here, you know?
**Senator:** Well, it's a good sign and I, I'm sorry this May, some people may disagree with me on this, but obviously we just.
all we've heard since this pandemic [00:25:00] is this hysteria about how it's gonna be impossible to find cigars and all the challenges obviously that Covid has brought. And all of that's legitimate. But, you know, let's understand the countries that these cigars are coming from. This is a big part of their economy.
They're gonna find ways to make it happen. They're resilient people like, like many are, and, and I think we continue to see it. This stuff keeps popping up. You know, we're very grateful that we're able to find and source a lot of what we want. But to what you just said, giz, I feel like almost every site that we buy New world sticks from very recently has had all the patron drones back in stock that we've been looking for.
Yep. Plenty of other stuff. So I, it's, it's
**Gizmo:** very encouraging. Yeah. It's a good, thank goodness. It's a good thing because I was nervous. I mean, I stocked up, we all did on, on a lot of a drone and stuff, but it seems like the, you know, they're popping up a lot more.
**Senator:** Yeah, it's a lot of hysteria. I feel like it's, you know, when there's snow and you go to the supermarket and it's like everything's gone.
People think the apocalypse is coming, , and we're, we're gonna always be able to get cigars. That's true.
**Gizmo:** So I saw the other day, I don't know if I, I don't think [00:26:00] I sent you guys this article. Um, half Wheeled who does a lot of reviews and stuff, and I think they have questionable opinions about Cubans, but that's, they're anti-urban.
That's my, um, I guess that's my opinion. I think some of their, their, their opinions about Cuban cigars is a little wild, but they put up an article the other day, and I'm curious what you guys think about this, about, uh, it, it was like an opinion piece about marketing cigars to kids. and I, we've talked about this before, like, um, more so like the way that the FDA is trying to crack down of on premium cigars and Carli to Fuente and Jorge Petron and Rocky Patel, you know, they've been pretty aggressively bonding, uh, you know, coming together to go and fight the FDA on regulating, uh,
**Senator:** cigars.
Yeah. Just one important clarification. They're not trying to crack down on premium cigars. They're lumping in exactly. Mistakenly, but foolishly premium [00:27:00] cigars with everything else. Mm-hmm. and not understanding that there's a gigantic distinction. Yes, you're a hundred percent right. You know, like a random, you know, uh, plastic tip, cigar you go by in a gas station or some of this flavored crap that might appeal to a child.
Right.
**Gizmo:** So the reason why you're a hundred percent right, the reason why Half, half Wheel, uh, created this article, it's called 10 Thoughts. Please Stop Marketing Cigars to Children. And it was a comment on flavored cigars, which we've obviously talked about acid and other things in the past. Apparently some brand, uh, Jos Crawl sent out a press release announcing a flavored cigar.
Like a rocky road ice cream flavored cigar, premium hand rolled cigar. And the other thing too is you, you've seen those, uh, is it made by acid? I don't know. You've seen those Bravada Cigar Club things come out where it's like the cookie monster and there's a cookie monster face on the cigar. Yeah. And there's an Elmo.
And to me it's like, I can't [00:28:00] disagree with this guy. I, I think, I think he's on the money. Like you're just baiting the FDA to lump these in saying, all right, well you're putting a picture of the cookie monster on a cigar. You think it's funny? But I think that's a valid argument. I think it's absurd. I
**Senator:** a hundred percent agree.
And I, you know, the irony of this is taking how I feel about the impact that something like that has on children, but just my own personal preference, right. We've talked about this. , I think we're purist when it comes to cigars, just like a lot of products. It's why we appreciate, you know, single malt scotch.
It's why we appreciate, you know, wine that people themselves make with their hands. These hand rolled cigars that we smoke and that everything in this cigar is natural and comes from the soil. I, I don't appreciate, and I, I'm sorry. I know some will disagree. I think it's a complete bastardization of cigars to be adding in artificial flavoring and just all this silly crap that we don't need.
And then you add to it, it invites [00:29:00] exactly like, you know, GIZ said, this article mentions. , you know, it, it invites a lot of regulation when you're making these flavored cigars. That sure would sound appealing. What kid wouldn't think it sounds cool to smoke something that's cookies and cream flavored.
Right. And then they're feeling like they're smoking something like a cigarette. Like that's not what this, this hobby's about. Yeah. And I, I totally agree with the premise of that piece, and I don't think it's helpful to any cigar smoker that that stuff happened, that
**Bam Bam:** product, that that kind of a product is not a cigar.
It really isn't. It doesn't belong in a conversation.
**Gizmo:** Totally. And, and you know, the price of a premium cigar that we're paying, you know, that's, that's not what kids are able to go out and grab. Right? I mean, unless they have dad's Amex card or mom's Amex card or something. But I mean, the price, but that's not FDA's argument.
It's the marketing and, and it's the labeling. Like I'm looking at, uh, United Cigar, put out a cigar box, or
**Bam Bam:** who is United Cigar? I'm not certain. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** We don't know who they. Um, I can look here. I, I'm just looking at this half wheel article, United Cigar and j r e [00:30:00] Create Aino Limited Cigar Bar, and the, the packaging is literally a chocolate bar.
It's, it's, it's ridiculous. It's, it's packaged like a chocolate bar and it's, to me that is now you're putting, now you're putting Padron and Fuente and Davi off and Taua and my father, you're putting them, you're lumping them into being,
**Bam Bam:** being like, like every industry. There are companies that bastardize what that industry.
there has to be an initiative industry wide to separate themselves from those type of firms and companies. Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what
**Gizmo:** you do. When was the last time you saw an
**Rooster:** 11 year old child smoke a cigar?
**Gizmo:** Never. Right. But never. But you know what, but, but that's not the FDA's argument.
No,
**Senator:** no, no. But, but Rooster makes a good point in the sense that exactly the argument Rooster just made there is how the, the Premium Cigar Association, that's the trade association in DC that represents a lot of these big tobacco, uh, these big cigar manufacturers and others, how they have successfully, when there's been [00:31:00] regulation around, you know, tobacco products, especially with the rise of e-cigarettes and things like that, they've always successfully, eventually got carved out of these regulations.
Premium hand rolled cigars that we smoke. They distinguish themselves because the exact point that Rooster made, they say, Tell, if you wanna say, there are kids walking down the street with a Juul that are underage. Okay. That that's a real thing that exists. Yeah. If you wanna say that there's someone smoking some flavored crap that is not a cigar.
Not a real cigar. Yeah, sure. That exists. Name me one 10 year old you've seen Walk down the street with a my father, the judge in their hand. No. And, and when they realize that these lawmakers recognize, okay, we do need to treat them separately, but as you have cigar manufacturers start to make some of this stuff that very easily can fall in the hands of a 10 year old, that's a problem for the industry that they'd want no part of.
Absolutely. And
**Gizmo:** it's not even, again, it's not even about selling the cigars, it's about marketing the cigars. Mm-hmm. , that's the FDA's already the way they're [00:32:00] marketed. Yeah. And, and you know, and I saw, um, I don't know if you guys saw, I know Carlito Fuente runs his own, uh, Instagram page and uh, he put up, I don't know if you saw this about a week ago, he was teeing off on his Instagram about people in the industry, not.
Putting up enough of an effort to help fight this type of regulation. And I think that, you know, you look at what happened in Canada, there's no embargo in Canada. You can buy any Cuban cigar. Let's ignore the tax argument. We're not, I don't wanna talk about tax. They literally, you have to put a custom band as a retailer and manufacturer, you have to put a custom band over this ornate, my father label.
There's a custom band to cover that one font of one color to not allow the eye to be drawn to a, a good looking band. So that's their solution.
**Senator:** That's their solution. Can I just read an excerpt from Carle's? Oh, it's, it's incredible Instagram. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, this, this is one of the most hardcore statements [00:33:00] I've ever seen.
So, Carlito Fuente, uh, post
never ever has a premium handmade cigar before marketed, targeted to the youth. But only those that understand and appreciate the artisan works of love, history, and simply appreciate the good stuff that God gave earth for us to enjoy. Enough is enough assholes. Your selfishness will take us all down and he's calling out people that are essentially making stuff that can very easily be marketed and targeted toward youth and saying, we want no part of that.
You're gonna ruin the whole industry that is clearly an adult product that has no appeal whatsoever to a child. Sure. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** And, and to that point too, I, you know, maybe he's calling out Bravada, but you know, there's a lot of retailers around the country who are very proud to be members of the Bravada Cigar Club, and they offer these cigars that are, that [00:34:00] are, you know, very scarce and hard to find, and you can go in and buy a couple of them.
They offered a cream cigar, which is a vanilla chocolate swirl. What. Creep from Bravada cigar, , . I mean, it's just, that's, you're playing right into the hand. Yeah. It's absurd of the fda. Absurd. I was about to say that.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. For a reputable company like that to be producing a cigar, it's just like that. It's absurd.
Yeah. It's
**Gizmo:** not good. No, but check. Check this out. What do you think
**Rooster:** Cuba in cigar sales does? Like each year? How many billion? Yeah. How many
**Gizmo:** million? How many billion? How many? I'm gonna say what's, what's your guess? I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, you might have read it, but No, I haven't. I'm guessing I, I'm gonna say 2 billion, so 1,000,000,007 50 million.
It's, it's [00:35:00] actually half a billion. Only. Really? Only. Wow. Half a billion. That's less than I thought. Wow. That's just a
**Senator:** lizard budget.
**Rooster:** 531 billion. I'm just kidding. . .
**Bam Bam:** That's shocking. Seems slow, right?
**Pagoda:** Does the flavor to guys do more, but ?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Right? It does. Wow.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I don't know what the, you know, the, uh, the Nicaragua sales of the
**Gizmo:** Hondura market is.
Well, I saw it, you know, cigars fish anda put out, uh, that the, it's a record number of imports, uh, excuse me, imports of cigars over the last year or two. So, um, you know, I think Nicaraguan and Dominican cigars and, and New World cigars are, are performing very well. Yeah. But the United States is a huge market.
And Cubans, if, if that was open to Cuba, I mean Right. Who knows what kind of volume they would do, or what kind of problems we would have getting 'em, you know? Yeah. I mean, just from
**Rooster:** a, I think about about 30 to 40% come here anyway. I know,
**Gizmo:** I know.
**Rooster:** Majority, you know, from the gray market. I think Spain is the, uh, number one market.
**Gizmo:** And then, uh, Garona is walking around, uh, filling our wine glasses. . Thank you. [00:36:00] Senator.
**Bam Bam:** Isn't Padron at about 150
**Gizmo:** million a year? Yeah. I would assume that's somewhere around there. Something like that. Alone. Just themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And what's funny about them is you can't, I think, uh, Senator was talking about this, maybe pagoda was as well.
You can't really find a, a patron drone. Cigar outside of North America. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, if you go to UK or, or Europe or, yeah,
**Bam Bam:** both. Senator Pagoda mentioned that last time. If you're in Asia, you will not find a patron.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And I know those guys pay a significant premium to get it, you know, shipped over from here.
Mm-hmm. . Um, you know, so it's similar to what we have to pay for. Hey, you've given away my business
**Pagoda:** idea, please.
**Gizmo:** export. Exporting, uh, Padron's.
**Pagoda:** I'm an importer. Exporter. .
**Gizmo:** Pagoda Kramer. Um, or was that Costanza? Costanza. That was Costanza. Sorry. Odd Vank. So we're about, uh, we're about halfway through here on, uh, the judge.
what are you guys thinking so far? I not, not much has changed so far for me. No. Consistent. [00:37:00] Yeah. It's a lot creamier and smoother than, than I expected, but, you know, um, I'm not getting a ton of flavor per se. Same here.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I, I kind of agree with you. Yeah. I mean, I'm not getting a lot of flavor. You can say it's
**Bam Bam:** a bit muddled maybe.
Yeah,
**Gizmo:** a bit.
**Rooster:** I was expecting a lot of spice, which I'm not getting at all. I mean, there's like no
**Gizmo:** spice. It's, I will say
**Bam Bam:** I'm getting a, a bit of ammonia right now. Yeah. Really touch.
**Gizmo:** Okay. Blow. I'm getting blow through it. Blow through the cigar. Yeah. Oh yeah. Just blow it out and they'll get all these stale ammonia, smell out.
Never done that.
**Pagoda:** So I've had, uh, my father the Valencia, which I remember really liking it. Um, you know, um, I think I'm gonna go and at least definitely try it again next week or something. just to try
**Gizmo:** and compare. I saw, uh, that the Cigar of the Year, cigar fish out of Cigar of the year 2012, 10 years ago now, uh, was given to my father for Flo Delos.
Yeah, I've [00:38:00] had that stick. Have What is that like?
**Senator:** It's actually pretty good. It's, um, it's a cheap stick. Like it's a, it's a good everyday stick. It's medium in, uh, strength has a little spice. Um, some earthy, nutty notes. It, it's not a bad cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Was this ranked this year?
**Gizmo:** It
**Senator:** was. Was it? Yeah. The really, so I, I'm positive cause I, I, I just was reading this the other day.
**Gizmo:** Um, and we went through it on that podcast we did The Hoya.
**Senator:** The Hoya. It's in the top 25 and it's the Grand Ra Robusto
**Gizmo:** that was on the top 25. Oh. Different photography. I'll tell you, I'm gonna look right now.
I'll tell you what, uh, what number It was interesting. Um, there, it. Cigar fish on top 25. Let me see what this is. Ironically,
**Senator:** with an order I recently placed on Fox, uh, cigars, uh, I got a free, uh, grand rib robusto of this. Really?
**Gizmo:** Oh wow. This was number 17 in Grand Rib Robusto this year. Number 17. Pretty high praise.
Yeah. Got a 93 rating from them. [00:39:00] Wow. My father
**Rooster:** cigar usually in the top 25. Yeah, it's true. I mean, if you look at like the last Yeah, maybe like seven or eight years. I mean, they're always one, one or the other, but taller, very
**Gizmo:** popular cigar. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this checks the box for someone who likes a big ring gauge, but doesn't want something that kicks, you know, kicks their ass when they're smoking it.
This is that, this is that cigar for them. The thing
**Senator:** I'm encouraged by with this cigar, and this is really the utility for me personally when we do these new worlds that we don't normally smoke, is when you are traveling or somewhere. and you pop into a cigar lounge and you can't bring your own stuff and you have to buy something there.
I really struggle when they don't have things that I normally pick up, like Padron or Davidoff, and I have to choose outside of that. I never know what to get, and I'm encouraged having this, I've always been intimidated by ever trying to pick one of these up because I thought if I walk in there in the afternoon, this is gonna be way more aggressive than I'm looking for.
But halfway through this for, uh, you know, random occasion, I pop in a [00:40:00] retailer, I need to buy something. This is not aggressive. It's smooth. Uh, you know, this is not a bad stick.
**Bam Bam:** It's a good point. There's something to be said about this, right? It's, it's, uh, it's the hot, the production volume is very high.
It's very consistently made. Beautifully made. Um, and like you said, if you're away and you can't find a stick and that's sitting looking at you, good choice. It's a good
**Gizmo:** choice. What's interesting is Cigar Fashionato said that, um, they commented that the, one of the reasons why this, this line is so successful, specifically the Grand R Robusto, Is that, uh, it, it's, it's supposed to be a much fuller cigar from my father.
I'm not getting that with this. No,
**Bam Bam:** I'm sure that's because the ring gauge is smaller. Yeah. And you're getting a more concentrated
**Gizmo:** flavor. Guess. Could be. I mean, would you guys call this, what would you call this? Medium? Yeah, it's, I wouldn't call this
**Rooster:** full. No, it's not full.
**Gizmo:** I don't think it's full. I mean, maybe it benefited from being at a lower humidity, I
**Bam Bam:** don't know.
Benefited from the gizmo locker .
**Pagoda:** I think everything about this is medium, even the [00:41:00] smoke up output.
**Senator:** So speaking of sticks that I have been given for free recently, Ooh, uh, with a non fox cigar order, uh, a bodyguard was Share with me that has, tell,
**Gizmo:** tell, tell the people what a bodyguard is. Uh,
**Senator:** it's, uh, when you, when you place an order and, uh, you, you know, you have a, a, a very generous seller who wants to thank you for your purchase.
They may have a, you know, loose sticker or two that they'll include with your order as a, as a thank you. Okay. And, uh, so what'd you come up with? What'd you get? Something with tremendous age. Tremendous age. That's still in cellophane. That looks insanely old. Wow. Uh, and I want to give one of them to someone who's given a lot of these types of cigars.
Pass this over to
**Gizmo:** Rooster. Oh, I thought it was from me.
**Senator:** Oh boy. I'm sorry. Gizmo. . You don't qualify. You have to be a true conno. Are you serious? What, dude? That
**Bam Bam:** I couldn't believe it. He meant me. Rocky
**Gizmo:** Patel. He meant me. Not true. Sorry. [00:42:00] talk to. What is it Rooster? Tell us why. Why don't,
**Senator:** don't you read the label to us Rooster.
It's a fucking
**Bam Bam:** Rocky Patel .
**Gizmo:** It's not. It's not, it's not.
**Senator:** You read it. It is not. It's
**Gizmo:** a different one. It's patal something. . This is why we need a video podcast. It's a Patel family. Oh, it's, it's his brother. It's his brother. It's Neil Patel.
**Senator:** It's a Nish or Neil Patel cigar. Fantastic
**Gizmo:** cigar.
**Pagoda:** Oh, by the way, you know, I, I've, I've incidentally had a really long conversation with, uh, his brother.
We were in Nat, she and we were four of us talking. And Nat Sherman had this, um, you know, they had a couple of leather, uh, chairs, uh, in the middle of the store. And this is before they got rid of them. And, uh, four of us were just sitting and talking. And this individual seemed to know a lot about cigars.
Now we are talking about for over an hour and a half or two. And the guy gets deeper and deeper and deeper into cigars the cigar [00:43:00] production. And it was such a great conversation. And then I just, I remember turning, I said, who the fuck are you? And he says, then he introduced himself. He had actually come to Na chairman to talk about one of the SA cigars he was introducing.
Um, I wasn't at that event. I, I had to leave early, but, uh oh. Well, there
**Senator:** it is. All right. I gave this cigar the wrong lizard. Give the n Patel cigar. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** No, no, no, no. I'm all
**Gizmo:** Thank you. Rooster. Are you gonna smoke that tonight after this or? Yes. I'm gonna actually , he's gonna put it in the fireplace. That's how he's gonna smoke it.
Listen,
**Rooster:** the best cigar is
**Gizmo:** always the free cigar. That's true. That's true. And
**Pagoda:** I think you can share it with Puba. I think he's really gonna enjoy it. .
**Bam Bam:** Pagoda. That's a pretty cool story, I have to say. And we don't get a chance to sit with true aficionados. Yeah, it's cool. It's, it's cool to have that opportunity.
**Gizmo:** It's very nice. He's, especially from aficionado, especially from a production standpoint, it's cool to learn, like how, like, I would love to really understand, and I don't know if he would ever tell you, but how, you [00:44:00] know, patron, we always talk about Petron, but how they've just completely streamlined making every cigar perfect.
You know, that, that's, that's gotta be very difficult to do. They've got qc. Yeah. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, it's machine manufacture . I'm kidding.
**Bam Bam:** Please.
**Gizmo:** So I, Senator, you gave us more of this wine. I really like this wine.
**Senator:** I'm telling you. It's good stuff. It, it defies like Rooster said, the, the Napa stereotype of being super sweet superfruit forward.
**Gizmo:** It's perfectly balanced, you know, and call me crazy. But when I order fish, like you said, I don't order a white wine. I always order a red. Um, this would absolutely be great. I love a piece of salmon and I think this would be great with a piece of, of salmon a little,
**Rooster:** but a lighter, lighter red. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know?
Yeah, yeah. I don't order like a cabernet something. Yeah. Bo bo
**Senator:** with salmon, you can have like a red blend with a little more structure, but with a white fish. Yeah. You, you have to, to rooster's point, you have to go with like a, a pinot, something like. Yep. Absolutely.
**Rooster:** [00:45:00] I mean, this wine has, has fruit, but the finish is dry.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. And I do get that, which is like a
**Gizmo:** bordeaux
**Bam Bam:** taste of Yeah. That little tiny touch of cocoa at the end that's there. Yep. I'm surprised.
**Pagoda:** I only wish I hadn't brushed my teeth before. ,
**Bam Bam:** are you getting mint? I'm
**Gizmo:** kidding. . I gotta, the one thing I will say about the cigar that, that's definitely knocking it down on a notch for me is the smoke output's not great.
What my smoke output is just, it's mediocre. Yeah. My smoke output is huge. Same,
**Rooster:** same guess. Yeah. And the draw is a little tight. It's a
**Gizmo:** little tight, tight, little tight. Definitely. I'm, I'm not, I'm not appreciating
**Bam Bam:** the, the, yeah. I'm with senator, my combustion and smoke up with Great. The draw is fantastic.
Yeah. My draw
**Senator:** is wide
**Gizmo:** open. Yeah. I think I, for wide, me wide open. My, my draw is fine. It's a perfect amount of resistance for. , maybe his is a little tighter, but the combustion and smoke output for me is not, is not what I would expect from a cigar. That sizes mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Then
**Senator:** may be a consistency issue cuz I are the, the [00:46:00] exact
**Gizmo:** opposite.
Pagoda. How's your, uh, combustion and smoke output? Uh, very little. Just like yours. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I, I find it to be mediocre at best.
**Pagoda:** No. And for a new world, I, I kind of find it surprising.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Especially with the dark rap thick rapper like this. You're getting the
**Bam Bam:** opposite
**Gizmo:** here. Yeah. Yeah. It's no number nine.
Yeah. Maybe the vintage thicko.
**Bam Bam:** I was just thinking about the league of number nine that night with the Lego, we couldn't stop smoking that cigar. We
**Pagoda:** couldn't see each other.
**Senator:** We literally could not see each other. Well
**Gizmo:** that's, and that's,
**Bam Bam:** it was so good. Yeah. Every puff was delicious. That was a great cigar.
That's, that's why this room was full.
**Gizmo:** The only thing about that cigar, like we said, it was a lit like this for me, it was a little too big, like the Corona, I like the Corona a little better. Not as much smoke output. . That was ridiculous. I mean, pub's eyes were like watering over here. , all of us. Yeah, it was, it was crazy
**Senator:** that that cigar produces more smoke than I would argue any cigar we've ever had.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, . Yeah. It's
**Pagoda:** wild. So I'm not sure, I think one of the listeners, a buddy of mine who, who listened to the episode mentioned that [00:47:00] I, he believes that they spray something on that deck to give it the sheen and kind of, it kind of adds to the smoke output. I'm not sure.
**Gizmo:** I feel like, but that's something Grindr may have said
**Senator:** something like that.
Yeah. We read something that That's correct. We did read something about that. It like accelerates the fermentation something, it involves the fermentation process. They do spray something on it. You mean like, gee
**Bam Bam:** sugar water. Well that's
**Pagoda:** very healthy and great for a keto diet. Clarified
**Gizmo:** butter
So are you guys ready to do a uh, formal. I wouldn't call it a liquor rating, but the ffl r on the wine tonight. Yeah. I'm ready. I am certainly ready. I'm very happy with this. Bam. Bam. You're up. I'm giving this an eight. Okay.
**Pagoda:** Uh, I'm giving it a seven. A wine. Don't kill
**Bam Bam:** me. Don't kill me. Oh my God.
**Gizmo:** Wow. Get out.
All right. His allocation of your case. I want it. He's out all. So he's out. He's cut out of the will. Eight. Eight for bam. Seven for pagoda. I'm giving it a 9 0 9. [00:48:00] I'm also giving it nine. I think it's fantastic. Same nine. Okay. Excellent. So the formal liquor rating on the non liquor, what is this again?
Robert Howell. Uh. Robert Craig. Robert Craig. How Mountain is an 8.4.
**Senator:** That's good. That's a great score. You know, it's so funny. That's because if I could give it a decimal, it'd be an 8.5. So I I
**Gizmo:** I love that score. Yeah. Good score. Yeah, that's a good score. Yeah. 8.4. Yeah, it's great wine. Now
**Senator:** a again, as to why, cuz I want to, I want to hear especially the lower scores.
For, for me, I'm, I'm probably on behalf of the nines in the room. Um, it's very hard to make a wine like this in Napa Valley. Very hard. I mean, I would argue there are very few that are able to achieve that, where it's not a fruit bomb and it has the complexity and the dryness that you get from a Bordeaux, but not too dry, which is why there's a lot of Bordeauxs.
I really, really dislike. Um, the price point is also, I think, outrageous for like the, the [00:49:00] quality wine you're getting. The fact that you can source this for 35 bucks a bottle, that's fantastic. You'll, you'll never find a bottle of 35. That's, it's fantastic.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. So I'm right, right under a nine. For me, an elite score is between a nine and a 10 for anything that we consume.
I think it, for this an eight is a respectable score. I happen to love this, this, this, what we're drinking tonight. It's really, really good. The complexity.
**Gizmo:** What, what did you, did you guys rate the Oberon. No. Was that No, that was before we, uh, we started doing the ratings. I think that would, I think that would rate higher.
I'll be honest. But
**Senator:** I would, I'm sorry. And Rooster, I just had the same reaction. I did. Obon for me would be an eight, but I think
**Bam Bam:** I was about to say, I, I like this better than
**Gizmo:** Theon, I think com. I, the composite lizard score, I think would be higher than an 8.4 for, I, I don't, you don't think so?
**Senator:** There's no one in the room that will give it a nine.
That's fair. Nine. That's fair.
**Gizmo:** It's fair. Force be lower. All right. Forgive. Hundred percent.
**Bam Bam:** Me. You're, you're correct. I do like this better than Theon. Theron's fantastic. It's a different wine.
**Gizmo:** I've just been drinking so much of it. I love it. [00:50:00] I do too. Yeah, it's
**Senator:** candy. Uh, it's just a very simple wine.
**Gizmo:** Easily drinkable.
Yeah. I'm a simple guy. Simple
**Senator:** one. Yeah. Pagoda seven. What's going on here?
**Pagoda:** Sure. Listen. Uh, you know, firstly, I, I don't have a really refined palette, uh, saying that upfront. I think I found it very, um, you know, as opposed to what a lot of you guys were saying, I found it very fruity and flavorful right in my mouth and.
I wasn't get getting the same kind of dryness you guys were getting. So it was just like, like a slush of fruit just going in. And I felt that I was looking for something more. Um, and I was looking for the dryness you were talking about, and I tried to, uh, focus on that attention. You know, I focus, I was trying to pay attention to it.
Um, just didn't get that. Listen, I did brush my teeth before coming over here, so listen, , my, you know, my, uh, honestly, that impacts things a a
**Senator:** lot.
**Pagoda:** That impact it does, especially wine. And so, uh, please excuse me for this score, but you know, I have to be true to what I've been feeling and [00:51:00] experiencing today.
I
**Senator:** won't completely cut you out of the, well, pagoda . I'll blame it on the toothpaste. I
**Rooster:** mean, there is dryness, but the dryness is on the finish. Yeah. You know, it's not in the beginning. Right. If you get, you get some fruit, it's like,
**Gizmo:** it's fruit forward with a dry finish. I, I
**Senator:** don't, I don't, which is the definition of a bordea.
**Bam Bam:** Bordea, yeah. The only fruit that I get from this is a really beautiful, deep current Yeah. Which I really love. Really
**Gizmo:** love that. I, I love the, the dryness of it. Yeah. Um, I think it's, it's perfect for the cigar. Yep. I think it's, it's, it's smooth. I, it's, it's just, I, I don't know how to describe it as, as someone who doesn't know wine, but it's kind of hitting that note when.
I don't want too much out of the wine. I just want it to serve the cigar as opposed to, you know, needing the wine to kind of be the headline act. Yep. You know, um, it's just, it's doing a great job. Yeah. Well said.
**Senator:** I'll, I'll give an analogy. It's the Paul Roget of Red Wine. There you go. Yeah. That's Paul Rochet.
That's fair. Paul [00:52:00] Roget starts with a little sweetness and it finishes dry. Yeah. And it is, again, you're figuring out my palate by what I offer up here. Right. Paul Roche is right in the middle between a really, really dry champagne and a sweeter champagne, like a VV cleco or something even sweeter than that.
And this wine also is right in the middle of a very dry bor Bordeaux, a French bordeaux, and a traditional Napa cab.
**Rooster:** This would go really well with the
**Gizmo:** bons, uh, muscles. in red sauce. Yes. Oh boy. Would have to be red sauce. Oh
**Bam Bam:** boy.
**Senator:** Oh, gizmo. Gizmo has a malfunction.
**Gizmo:** I, I am shocked right now as the. We're coming.
You know, we're in the last third here of this cigar. Yeah. And my rapper has completely on a done a undo. Looks like a scroll. Looks like a scroll. It looks, it does. It looks like I'm about to read like a, a reading from the lizard. Scroll . That's right. That's crazy. You
**Pagoda:** gonna stop chewing the cigar,
**Gizmo:** please?
This is not, this [00:53:00] is not good. Like I'm literal, I'm taking the whole rapper off. Look at this. Oh, oh, oh. Oh. That's gross. The whole rapper just
**Senator:** came off. That's what, what did you do to upset the universe today? Gizmo. .
**Pagoda:** Well, well you didn't like a godo. Now it's a little thinner. Take
**Gizmo:** a bite of that rapper. You put these on the top of your car again.
Can we please tell that story? Tell the story. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. So I
I purchased, um, some wonderful, I mean perfect. Seven year aged 2015 boxes of Parus Series D number fives. . I purchased three boxes for Senator Bam, bam. And myself. And, um, the last time I was coming, where, where are we going? Here? Are we gonna The Clubhouse, clubhouse, clubhouse, clubhouse gonna the clubhouse.
And, uh, we were gonna sit down as we do, you know, we don't just, we don't just get together for the pod. We get together quite a bit. I mean, I was telling somebody today, I think I see Pi go to three, four times a week. You know, more than , [00:54:00] more than almost anybody in my life. I see the lizards and, uh, I see of our wives.
Yeah. on that is, that is calculated by the way, on purpose. , please, please
**Bam Bam:** edit, please
**Gizmo:** So, uh, I was rushing outta the house and I packed up our boxes that had come in for the guys, and all of a sudden I'm, I'm pulling outta my driveway, driving down the street and, and, and my neighbor is like flashing his lights at me. And I'm like, what the hell? And I look out my rear view mirror and I see.
Just shit flying off the top of my car. And then it hit me that not only did I put my solo case with all my really good cigars in it, I had put two boxes of these HD five s on top of that,
**Senator:** that he was supposed to be delivering
**Gizmo:** to, that I was supposed to be delivering to the guys . So I, I then jumped out of my car in a panic and tried to find 20 aged perfect, beautiful D five s, [00:55:00] uh, off the, the street.
And, uh, were you actually hunting for cigars on the street? I, I found 16 outta 20 feet. Wow. I, I don't know where four of them went. It was that bad. Like the boxes flew off the top of my car. I think your neighbor has 'em, . Yeah. Well, I mean, we, we, we went through them. Uh, Senator and I went through 'em. Mike, he and I were there first when I got there.
Yeah. There only three, or Yeah, three or four. Were four. Three or
**Senator:** four or four Were salvageable out of 20. Horrible. It's crazy. That's horrible. Horrible
**Gizmo:** thought they were insured, huh? Yeah, they were insured by me. . I had to take care of the guys. But yeah, I was just stupid man, you know, just running out of the house.
But I destroyed 20 really vintage nice age. So the, so
**Rooster:** the lesson is never put cigar boxes on top of
**Gizmo:** your car. The ci the lesson is don't be on the phone rushing, trying to get out, trying to get to a cigar. You know? Don't multitask. Yeah, don't multitask.
**Senator:** Yeah. And like Rooster said, never put cigars on the roof of your car.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. So now you made good. He gave us all
**Gizmo:** new D five s. You got D five s. I gave, I gave Senator. I had one the other
**Bam Bam:** day. It [00:56:00] was fabulous. Yeah. I enjoy it. It's a good stick.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's good. All right boys, we're coming to the end here of the, my father, the judge, uh, Toro Gor. And, uh, without rabbit, without a rabbit, my, I can't even smoke mine anymore.
The binder is in my mouth and it is not delicious. So, um, let's do a rating. Let's see what we got. Rooster. You're up. So, yeah, I
**Rooster:** mean, it's, it's an okay stick. Yeah. I'm not loving it. I mean, I expected a lot of flavor, you know, a little bit of spice to it. There was none of that. There was not, not much spice.
Um, I mean, it's, it's an, it's just an okay stick. I'm gonna give it a, uh,
**Gizmo:** six. Okay. I am gonna give mine, uh, I have not had a cigar unravel like that. A two. Yeah. It's been a long time. Flavor was decent. Uh, everything, everything about it was as middle of the road as you can be. And so I'm gonna give the cigar a five.
**Senator:** Wow. I'm with Rooster. I'm gonna [00:57:00] give it a six.
**Pagoda:** Pagoda, uh, five for me. Very flat. I didn't get a flavor. Didn't Yeah. Like the smoke output. Um, yeah. And I've had, uh, Better experiences with my father under different lines. And like I mentioned, I think I remember having, um, really enjoyed the ncia and a couple of other ones.
I, I think this is a five for me. I think maybe if we
**Bam Bam:** had this in a different viola, the, the scores could have been a little different. One I lit this up. I was at a seven in my mind. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** me too. Yeah, it was right there. I would've given it a six had I not had the,
**Bam Bam:** uh, yeah, the tasty. But as I'm in the final third, it's, it's, it's a little tough.
I'm in a six. Okay. I think that's a fair score.
**Gizmo:** 5.8 very close composite lizard score is a 5.6. Wow. Which is on the, certainly on the lower end of the Yeah. Cigars that we've rated here. And I, I, I honestly am surprised based on how it lit, but I think [00:58:00] very appropriate for the experience I had on this project.
**Rooster:** So, you know why you should, maybe the, you know, listeners out there should try. and uh, maybe try a different vi
**Gizmo:** Yeah, try the ramboo first.
**Senator:** I think if we've learned anything, if there's hope for this cigar, this is a large ring gauge of it. We didn't get a ton of flavor and so the only thing to produce more flavor is to get more of the wrapper and less the filler.
And that would be a smaller ring gauge. So if you're gonna try it to Rooster's point, try it in a smaller ring gauge. And maybe that's gonna start,
**Bam Bam:** honestly, and, and if it were a bit shorter, I wouldn't get the, you know, the ammonia I'm getting now. Yeah. I think it's worth pursuing for those guys that are looking to
**Gizmo:** try something.
Yeah. I think that, I, I, I think this is for a, a smoker who isn't smoking a ton of cigars, it wants a big ring gauge, doesn't want something that's gonna kick him in the ass. I think the cigar would be fine for them and they may very well enjoy it versus some other lower budget versions of, of new World cigars that are just in our eyes, just not smokable.
Yeah. But you know, it, I, I just. . [00:59:00] It's just mediocre At best to,
**Senator:** to go back though, I think bam, maybe not intentionally use the word pursue. I, I, I would not say anyone should pursue this. Don't chase this as much as if you're in a pinch. Yeah. And you have to pick something up. That's right. Yeah. If we get this in a smaller ring age, this may not be the worst thing.
Yeah. But we
**Gizmo:** might just be spoiled. We are conk smoking lizards. But you know what though? That's to me that, that's, that's why we're doing this, is I wouldn't share this, I wouldn't share this cigar with anybody that I know who could potentially want to have a cigar at any point. I would not recommend or share this cigar from my, from as a lizard sharing it.
Despite our, you know, we are spoiled. Yes. It's, it's,
**Senator:** but we're, we're, let's, I'm sorry. I just wanna give us, we're reasonable though. Little bit of credit. We're reasonable. We're reasonable in that we rated a tiny little $5, $4. Even taa. Yeah. Batik Hasor is an eight point something. It was 8.3. Right. So we know absolutely.
We, we just want a cigar that's got a lot of flavor that's gonna be really satisfying. And that is as good in [01:00:00] the first half as it is in the second or good in the last. That's is the first, right? That's right. Yeah. And
**Bam Bam:** this just didn't do it. And don't forget about the League of Nine that we ranked very high.
Yeah. There's another new world. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** That was a, there's fabulous cigar there. And listen, there's a lot more coming. So I, I mean, not every cigar that we smoke is gonna be a seven, eight, or a nine. I mean, there's gonna be some like this and, and I'm sure some at some point we'll come back to my father and, and see what we find.
But for now, boys,
**Rooster:** I mean, this might be somebody's favorite cigar. You
**Gizmo:** can very, you know what? And if, if that, if that floats their boat, good for them. It's part of the journey. Yeah. Really. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, boys. A 5.6 for the you on judge. My father, the Judge , oh man. And an 8.4 for the Robert Howell.
Robert Craig. Robert Craig. Damn it. I did that again. Robert. Craig Howell Mountain. Uh, Cove. Cove. Very good. All right boys, thanks very much and, uh, we'll see you next week. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any [01:01:00] comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us Lounge Lizards pod, p o d, that's lounge lizards pod gmail.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.