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No one has it all figured out. And anyone who says they do? Well, they’re lying.
This is for the women who are trying. Trying to juggle all the things. Trying to make sense of what they actually want. Trying to keep their heads above water without losing themselves in the process.
Career. Money. Relationships. The pressure to do it all. The pressure to want it all. And the moments you secretly wonder, is it just me?
Here we speak openly, laugh through chaos, and ask questions instead of pretending to have all the answers.
Because we’re all a work in progress.
Rachel Downey (00:00):
As a marketer, I think that you actually have one of the most important jobs in the entire world. This can't be about a tech stack, it can't be about the pain your problem solves. I think at the end of the day, it's like what's at stake? What is lost here? What is gained here? And so when I think about this idea of human connection, it's like there is nothing else without it.
Gayle Kalvert (00:18):
Hi, I'm Gayle Kalvert and this is Marketing In Progress, a spinoff of Work in Progress. This is for anyone juggling the world of B2B marketing, figuring out what matters, what you can skip, and what actually grows revenue. You'll hear from marketing leaders, sales leaders and agency owners. Every angle with no filter, you won't hear any jargon and no fluff, just real talk, smart ideas and some laughs along the way. Welcome to Marketing in Progress. I'm Gayle Kalvert here with Rachel Downey from Share Your Genius. Today we're asking the big questions. What's the secret sauce behind partnerships that actually drive pipeline? Why are B2B marketers so hard on each other and how do we flip that script? And is consistency the real growth hack nobody wants to admit? Stick around because this one's packed with the kind of real talk you don't usually hear. Well, before we jump in, Rachel, why don't you introduce yourself?
Rachel Downey (01:16):
Yeah, happy to do that. I'm the CEO and founder of Share Your Genius, and we are a content and podcast production agency. We primarily work with B2B, go-to-market leaders.
Gayle Kalvert (01:26):
Like me. All right, excellent. Well, I'll give you all a little background about me and my experience so you understand why I have any business talking about B2B marketing. Before I started Creo Collective, which is a B2B marketing agency, I spent more than 15 years actually in sales and marketing in professional services companies like Deloitte Consulting, working with IBM and software companies, and actually carried a quota for a little bit, which was a really helpful experience to know how do marketing and sales actually work together successfully. And that's exactly why I created Marketing in Progress, which is this, a little teaser for that. Marketing in Progress is a spinoff of my current podcast, Work in Progress, and it's really a space, Marketing in Progress, for B2B marketing leaders like all of you to get together, hear from guests about what's working, what's not working. And as you'll see here with Rachel and me today, we are always honest and we're all in this together is really the vibe. So let's get into it, Rachel.
Rachel Downey (02:31):
I'm excited.
Gayle Kalvert (02:32):
Okay, so you founded Share Your Genius way before podcasting was cool, let's be honest. So I want to know what made you think, yeah, podcasting for B2B marketers?
Rachel Downey (02:45):
The idea really came out accidentally, and it's funny as we talk about B2B marketing, I think one of the misnomers when people are thinking about having a marketing career is that most of marketing is about doing the job and learning what works and what doesn't work for you to actually be able to say, I understand marketing. Even then, there's so much new information all the time that it's constantly evolving anyway, so you have to be a practitioner of the craft. So I say all that to say, I had been a practitioner of the craft specifically in content marketing at a marketing agency and found myself in a situation where I was able to start working on a podcast with one of my friends and he was launching a net new company, a net new brand, and within six months it had generated over six figures worth of pipeline for him. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What is this and why and how is this working? And so fast forward, I kind of went all in on that. I had never seen a channel and content work so effectively and as efficiently. And so that's how Share Your Genius began.
Gayle Kalvert (03:45):
Yeah, no, I love that. I love that you used the word pipeline because aren't we all at the end of the day trying to drive qualified pipeline? So yeah, no, that's super cool. And obviously I got into the podcasting game. We'll touch on that after. Okay. I think it's your turn to ask me.
Rachel Downey (04:01):
Yeah, well I'm curious too, I mean this is kind of the origin story of how we came to be to where we are today in our career. You left a very successful corporate career and decided to build a marketing agency, which by the way, building an agency is actually really freaking hard. It's high stress. There's a lot of demands on you all while trying to look good and sound really smart to your clients. So I am curious why leave the golden handcuffs and pursue Creo?
Gayle Kalvert (04:28):
Okay, I've never heard that one. That's a good name. Like the gold part of the salary and the benefits and maybe some handcuffs of wanting some flexibility and work for yourself. Truly for me, I wanted to have something of my own. I really saw that as something I wanted to do at some point in my life. And why Creo Collective? It was because honestly, I wanted to help other marketers like me who I felt like were underserved. I do feel like so much attention goes to B2C, right? B2C, B2C, B2C, and especially this was 2016. I think B2B has come a long way just in the past year. But as a B2B marketer, I didn't feel that I had the resources that I needed as easily as I could have to do my job and do my job well. There are a ton of agencies, of course you can get help anywhere, but really designed to help somebody like me who's navigating politics, software, like highly technical topics. I just really wanted to be a place that could help other marketers. That's really simple.
Rachel Downey (05:28):
One of the through lines I see in both of our stories is A, we both founded our companies essentially in 2016. So right around the same time, the other thing that I find really interesting about our background is that we were both practitioners. We understood both sides of the aisle, if you will, when it comes to working at a company. And then I also had agency experience and then you've probably hired and worked with a million agencies too. So I love that we're coming together in this way of sharing from both a practitioner standpoint and now leaders of an agency. So I love that. And another thing I love about this, and I'll let you kind of take it away, but the human side of why we're both so passionate about what we do, I think, is something that B2B is really hungry for and something I'm super excited to dig into a little bit more with you.
Gayle Kalvert (06:10):
Yeah, it's funny, so Rachel and I did not know each other before a few months ago. We'll get to that in a second. So it is completely by coincidence that both of us literally incorporated human and being human connecting with humans in our company. My tagline is "Marketing services with a human touch", right? Yours is "human connection through podcasts". Is that correct? Did I make that up?
Rachel Downey (06:35):
Our mission statement is to "foster human connection".
Gayle Kalvert (06:38):
Your mission statement.
Rachel Downey (06:38):
So you didn't make it up but close.
Gayle Kalvert (06:41):
Okay. Whatever, whatever. The human thing is all there. And obviously both of us, I mean it's just sort of innate to who I am. When I think about helping our clients and helping marketers, it's really about people. How do we actually help individual people be more successful? But also in B2B marketing, everything right now is about technology. So AI platforms, there's a platform for everything. I am a huge evangelist for technology. Absolutely you want to use tools to be faster, to do your job better, but you need humans. You need the human capability to be a successful marketer.
(07:22):
And one of the things that I think is really important if you're bringing on any kind of agency or a partner is that they know how to navigate your internal politics. They know your lingo. They can kind of slide in there and be part of your team. And you can't do that just by using ChatGPT. You ultimately can use that as sort of an analogy. You need the brains combined with the technology to really create a fantastic outcome. I'm seeing a lot of human messaging in B2B. I think for that reason people are hungry for human connection with no lack of technology and all this digital remote. I think it's all part of it.
Rachel Downey (08:06):
I think it has to be. And I think if we almost take the skew away from the marketing perspective and we take a couple steps back and we think about how we're all connected in the world just as a species, a couple of things are really prevalent in our world today. And I'm not going to go down a path that's not related to the topic, but just to kind of anchor us in some foundational understanding. Loneliness is one of the highest epidemics that we've had in forever. The other thing is when we think about human connection and the role marketing plays in that, part of the marketing job is to tell a story and how that story gets told into the different avenues within the divisions of the system is completely different. But story is actually what connects humans to each other. And it's how we've survived since the earliest days of cave paintings and things like that.
(08:52):
And so as a marketer, I think that you actually have one of the most important jobs in the entire world. This can't be about a tech stack. It can't be about the pain your problem solves. I think at the end of the day, it's like what's at stake? You know what I mean? What is lost here? What is gained here? And so when I think about this idea of human connection, it's like there is nothing else without it. And so if you don't have a brand that's putting humans at the first and how you create human connection between your product or your service, but it really is the people within your organization and the people that you're able to help.
Gayle Kalvert (09:24):
And I think you said connecting with people and loneliness, that's part of the buying process in B2B. It's sort of fascinating to me that whenever we think about B2B marketing for so long, we don't realize B2B buyers are consumers. We are all just people living this life experience. And so if you're marketing for a software company, something deeply technical, you still have to find the human element to connect with that buyer. So positioning, functionality and product-led marketing, my heart is really with the storytelling and how is this fundamentally going to help your customer either live better, do their work better, solve a problem for them, and at a visceral level, I think that's why we're seeing so much success in B2B marketing with communities. I mean, podcasting in itself is creating a community in its own. I've worked with so many clients who again, deeply technical products where their success in building pipeline actually has been derived from sales free. Seriously everybody, no sales pitch allowed. Okay, sales free events, gatherings. It can be any kind of community building, but kind of like a safe place, like a safe place for your prospects and your customers to get together and help each other. And then you are really just facilitating that as the brand. And not everybody would think of that like, oh, community building, what do we need to invest in that for? Right? Well that investment has such a huge ROI on ultimate pipeline. I mean you see a lot of that too in your podcasting, right?
Rachel Downey (11:19):
Oh yeah. And I think a couple of things that really feel like truths to me frankly. One is that we've known this forever, but people do buy from people and your network is your net worth. And so when you invest in people, people will invest in you. It's pretty simple. We are complicated beings, but not really. You help me, I'm going to help you. It's just the way we work. And I think sometimes we get too focused on the functionality. We get too focused on the brass tacks before taking the time to just stay curious, stay present with the people we're trying to connect with, make sure that we actually understand what they need and not try and sell them something that they don't want. People don't want to get sold to, but they do want to buy. And so it's like how do we make sure that the thing that they actually want is the thing that we're delivering based on what they told us, not what we assumed?
(12:05):
And that's kind of what constantly comes to mind for me. And I think community is a big deal. I think the experience that I've had really this year in terms of growing Share Your Genius, and I'm not going to talk numbers, but I will tell you that we've been closing a deal a week since February, and I'm like, what the heck? How have we been able to do that? Because we are not mature in our marketing motion. That's actually why we just started working with you at Creo is because we're actually ready to put some infrastructure around our company. But the reason that we've been able to do that is because we have developed really good partnerships and relationships and those partners are telling other people about us. And so we're not having to market ourselves because if we did, who would listen? But we're looking at people who already have credibility, who already have expertise in front of our ICP and partnering with them to help ideally make their lives better. And it has definitely helped make ours.
Gayle Kalvert (12:59):
And you just said partners, and that reminded me like, duh, when we talk about B2B marketing, what's working? Partnerships. Partnerships always have been a real critical piece of sales, especially in the tech sector, but really across the board that hasn't changed. And partner marketing I have always found in my experience in-house and also now at an agency with my clients is very much sort of a low priority. We'll fund that partner marketing at some point. We're like, oh yeah, well, can you take on partner marketing in addition to the six other hats that you wear on the marketing team? And while I get it, I get it, there's how much budget and where do we put it all? It's not going to lead to success if you're just deprioritizing it because the only way that partnerships are successful, and this is why you're having success with them, is because you have a sponsor internally who actually is tied to sales, knows that that partnership can help them with their sales numbers.
(13:59):
It's even better if they're compensated or measured by the success of those partnerships. You need somebody who is tied to the success of that partnership internally to be a sponsor who has authority to really make that partnership work because then they are going to invest the funding and the people and that when you say, oh, we have a partnership, but it's not giving us any results, it's like take a look at how much you're actually investing in people time and marketing in those relationships and maybe think about bumping that up because like you said, and we all know a referral is your best lead, right? I mean those are gold.
(14:40):
Hey there, quick pause. If you're enjoying this episode, drop a comment right here on YouTube or Spotify. It could be a moment that stuck with you, something you related to, or maybe you have question that you'd like us to answer. When you do, you'll be entered to win some Work in Progress swag. We're talking super cozy hoodies. It's free, it's cute. And who doesn't love a good hoodie? Alright, let's get back to it.
Rachel Downey (15:05):
So what else do you see as working in B2B marketing?
Gayle Kalvert (15:09):
Well, you touched on it quickly when you said people want to buy from people. I'm sure we've all heard “you need a thought leader. You need somebody to be the face of your organization because buyers don't typically trust brands. They trust people.” And so getting somebody to go out there and put themselves on the line to be a thought leader is working. And I say put themselves on the line on purpose because it's scary and I have a lot of conversations with clients about this. Having somebody who is really going to be actually authentic and a little vulnerable and a little scared and taking stances that aren't necessarily the conventional wisdom because that is what really works. You could have a thought leader and they're out there saying what everybody else is saying, but those companies are not having success. The companies that are having success tied to thought leadership have somebody with strong opinions. You have so much experience with this, you talk about it.
Rachel Downey (16:07):
I think everything you're saying, and I totally agree with, I think that we have a lot of kind of underdeveloped and overexposed people online. What I think brands need to harness is the power of the people within their organization. And so we say thought leader, there's a lot of thought parrots out there, but a thought leader is somebody who is speaking about things in a way that other people are not. They have a very clear point of view, and if they don't know their point of view, then let's work on finding it. One of the ways you can work on finding your point of view is by having conversations, externally processing. Some people use a podcast just for that so they can figure out what their actual opinion is. We're also inundated with things like AI and ChatGPT is starting to tell us what to think.
(16:45):
And so it's like take 10, 15 more minutes and actually explore, how do I feel about this actually? What about my actual experiences is shaping my actual opinion? Those types of things. But to your point, the brands that want to last into the next decades and on, they're going to have to put their people front and center because your people are your last defense. They're actually your moat. They are what makes your brand different. My company can be copied, your company can be copied, tech companies can be copied, your messages can be mimicked. But what literally sets everything apart is the fact that I am unique and every single person is unique. We may not all be special, but we are all unique. And so it's like how do you find the people within your organization who do have the courage to get on the mic and do it in a way that's very consistent and that we're committed to looking at the things that are actually moving the needle with our customer or with our client.
Gayle Kalvert (17:37):
Yeah. Okay. Three things I want to say. First thing I thought of was I want to give people listening two tips for the internal. Say you're in marketing and you're trying to get employees to get online and do the things that you just talked about, and there's fear. People are either like, Ooh, I don't have anything to say or kind of scared to do that. And then of course there are people who just don't like social media. We can't really solve that problem.
Rachel Downey (18:03):
They're not your person.
Gayle Kalvert (18:05):
It's not going to work. Let them go. So just to make it simple, two tips I would tell those people. First off, repetition is critical. I even forget this sometimes. I think I have to have something new and different to say every time I go out there. First of all, we're not built that way. You can't, right? But also you have to be consistent because as we all know, there's so much content you've got to get out there and say the same thing because, at some point, the person that needs to hear when they need to hear it at the right time are going to see it. So don't feel like you have to come up with something new and different every time. So maybe work with your internal colleagues to say, give me two things. What are two things that you feel passionate about? And then just lather, rinse, repeat, right?
Rachel Downey (18:53):
A hundred thousand percent. I think that we do live in this world of like, I've got to constantly be on the hamster wheel, cranking out new ideas, new thoughts. It's just not sustainable. So it's figure out a few anchors for yourself that you're like, this is actually what I think. This is actually what I know to be true. And like you said, keep saying it over and over again and you can get more creative in how you say it over time to figure out which angle of X, Y, Z is working. But yeah, consistency is going to win every single time because the job of B2B is not to go viral. The job of B2B is to get attention and keep it. And that doesn't mean it's not spiky. You want people who are consistently showing up for you just like you're consistently showing up for them.
Gayle Kalvert (19:32):
Yeah, that's really important. Everybody wants to go viral, but in B2B being viral isn't you give 15 minutes of fame perhaps. Yeah. Is there anything that you're seeing that you think B2B marketers should stop doing? I think we're all overwhelmed and we all want to add and we all want to do more things and you think, oh my God, I got to add another campaign or I got to add another this or that or the other. Yeah, let's keep it simple. What should people stop?
Rachel Downey (19:57):
It's not going to be a tactical, practical thing. It's going to be totally coming from a human perspective, but I think B2B marketers should stop being so critical of other B2B marketers. You see this on LinkedIn or sometimes even in events where people troll and say really rude stuff. And it's like, what for? We're all out here trying to figure out what's working for our buyers, for our audience, for our team. We are all in a weird way in this together. Even if our methods aren't going to work for the same audience overlap, it doesn't matter. So I would say more encouragement. Stop being so critical. And if you have feedback for somebody, go into their DMs or literally give them thoughtful feedback that helps them become better, like constructive criticism as opposed to something that's based on nothing.
Gayle Kalvert (20:44):
That sort of ties into what I was going to say I wish B2B marketers would stop doing. Similar is tune out all the B2B. I love that you called them thought parrots. I wrote that down. Never heard that before. We get like tune that shit out. It's just bringing you down. It's the same. If I think about my Instagram algorithm for instance, if it's bringing me down, I'm like, I got to change this algorithm. My Instagram algorithm right now lifts me up. I have figured that out. I'm like, this needs to make me feel good. So does your LinkedIn feed. Even myself, if I'm on there and I'm reading this, people are just very negative and there's so much, here's what you have to do or the hill I'm going to die on. What are we, at war, people? It's not that deep. It's not that deep. And nobody knows you, nobody knows your customer, nobody knows your company like you do. So whatever you're reading out there or taking in wherever it is, LinkedIn, books, podcasts, whatever, don't get stressed and bogged down and think you've got to keep up with the business Joneses. I can't come up with a better term.
Rachel Downey (21:50):
Literally the business Joneses.
Gayle Kalvert (21:52):
Joneses.
Rachel Downey (21:53):
Yeah, you just have to keep up with yourself and get better one day at a time. You know what I mean? And it is the idea of, you talked about repetition. It's repetition and message and point of view and getting clear and clearer, but it's also repetition in your own mastery of the craft and you have to keep moving forward. And I am, I don't know, maybe it's irrelevant as a leader of a company. I am very impatient as a person, so everything takes longer than I think it's going to take. Everything takes longer than I think it should take. All these kinds of things. And I've learned to just hold it longer than I feel like I should, so that actually I can see things come into fruition. And so just that idea of practicing and doing and sharing as opposed to trolling, being negative for the sake of it. That's doing nothing. It actually hurts your brand.
Gayle Kalvert (22:37):
And there's so much pivoting, right? Everyone talks about pivoting. Well, if your campaign has been live for a couple of weeks, you don't pivot. You have to give things time and look, like I said, been there, been internal, totally understand that the CEO might not feel the same way, but one of the jobs of us marketers is to educate up that doing less more consistently is actually going to get the results that you need. I know as a marketer, that sounds really scary. Like, wait, I'm only going to rely on three things instead of 17, but what if that 16th thing gets me the result I want? It's not scientifically, it is not. The data will back you up. It takes five to seven times for somebody to see something before they act on it. I mean, think about yourself in your, we're all like, why didn't we get any leads from that email?
(23:31):
I mean guys, myself included, we're doing marketing for ourselves and I'm like, why isn't this happening quicker? Well, to then think about your own self and how many times do you see an email and you think, oh, I got to reply. I got to reply, or I got to do this and I want to, and then you remember in the morning and then you remember one night and maybe four weeks later when I see that person on my LinkedIn feed, I'm like, oh yeah, I got to reply to them. So if you're doing a campaign, you do want to have a variety of tactics to meet your audience. There are so many channels. I know it's frustrating, but that is what works. It's basically like you got to remind people and then remind them and then remind them again.
Rachel Downey (24:08):
I think what you said when you started just now is the only soundbite that people should take away if they take nothing else. Choose the things you're choosing and keep doing it consistently. Understand the KPIs you're measuring in order to know whether or not it's time to evolve or pivot. But you got to let things run its course and you have to decide how long you're going to let it run. In the podcast space specifically, I tell people when you start a podcast, you're signing on for a year and you're probably signing on for three, to be honest, because it's one of those things that just takes consistent time. It literally just does. And there's nothing that beats time. And so I would always say for marketers, especially I'm talking to myself here, is when you get the shiny object syndrome, which I'm so aware that I get, keep one thing, that's your shiny object. Let the other things just be your consistent always-on programs.
Gayle Kalvert (24:54):
Yeah, that's a good thought. It was like you can experiment, you can add new things, but try one new thing instead of 45, a million. I think there's, well, and I see it with my clients, there's so much pressure to also find the latest technology that can help you. I'm not just talking about AI, but just for everything.
Rachel Downey (25:11):
In general.
Gayle Kalvert (25:11):
It's like, oh, every time you turn around it's like, oh, you got to upgrade to get that functionality. And then all of a sudden people are like, I have so many licenses, I don't even know why I have all these licenses. Well, maybe take a look at your budget and bring down the software investment and then like we said, double down on some of the things where they're working so that you can do those things that are working more consistently. Yeah, the technology thing, I mean, we could do a whole week, whole thing, tech fatigue.
(25:39):
I did promise that we would tell people how we met and it does tie into all this. So I was going on LinkedIn to do research. I was trying to find other founder CEOs because guys, this is my first time, never worked at an agency, totally winging it. I was like, I don't need to find other founder CEOs that I can learn from. And I come across this LinkedIn Live where you were interviewing these two women who were doing a podcast with you. And I literally thought, well, why not me? And then what did I do next? I went to your profile. I completely stalked Rachel to the point that what I DMed you and I was like, I'd like to meet about a podcast. I was nervous. So guys, isn't this ideal? The prospect is nervous and your CEO gets to be the person that they're nervous to meet instead of you being nervous you're going to not close the deal. I literally, I was like, it was bad.
Rachel Downey (26:31):
That's why I had no idea you were nervous!
Gayle Kalvert (26:35):
But that's what you and I both do. You post about your kids. We're like, everything's fair game. So I was like, this might be a little cringey. I know everything about her.
Rachel Downey (26:45):
It's fine.
Gayle Kalvert (26:46):
Anyway, that's the goal, right? This is the point: you want to get out there. You want people to be so familiar with your brand or you depending on what your goals are, that they feel like they've experienced it, they've had an experience with your company's brand, or if you're working on your own, with you, then you're doing a really great job marketing and getting that kind of brand and voice out there. Okay, so here's what I'm going to say. I feel like we didn't cover half of what we wanted to cover, but on my podcast, Work in Progress and now Marketing in Progress, I always like to end with a couple of fun questions and change the vibe. We can't talk about work all the time. Alright, so Rachel, I'm going to put you on the spot.
Rachel Downey (27:24):
Okay.
Gayle Kalvert (27:25):
Are you coffee or tea? Not a hard question, but people are deeply opinionated about this. I had no idea.
Rachel Downey (27:31):
Well, it depends on the time of day. I am like a coffee in the morning gal and a tea at night kind of gal.
Gayle Kalvert (27:38):
Oh, me too. I'm only coffee in the morning. I have tried so many times to have coffee in the afternoon, like iced coffee, all these different coffees, and I'm like, Nope, I'm not feeling it. Nope. Okay. But people are really, really opinionated. They get angry about...
Rachel Downey (27:52):
Yeah, I don't get angry about things like that.
Gayle Kalvert (27:54):
No, neither am I.
Rachel Downey (27:55):
Actually, most things, I'm not an angry person in general.
Gayle Kalvert (27:59):
Wait, is it hot or cold? The coffee.
Rachel Downey (28:01):
Oh, hot.
Gayle Kalvert (28:03):
Always? Summer?
Rachel Downey (28:04):
Always hot. Summer, I'll do iced, but I like a hot cup of coffee in the morning right when the sun is coming up. It's a whole vibe.
Gayle Kalvert (28:13):
Yeah, I'm with you. It is. The one time I go outside every day. I'm like five minutes, got to go outside for five minutes before I work. Okay. What song do you have on repeat right now?
Rachel Downey (28:23):
So I love Forrest Frank. He's a faith-based artist, but it's really good. And so I listen to his music a lot. I listen to Drop a lot.
Gayle Kalvert (28:32):
Mine are like Warren G, Biggie Smalls. You're like, you're like...
Rachel Downey (28:36):
I'm here for it, I'm here for it. But the content that goes in my brain has to fill my spirit so that I can carry on.
Gayle Kalvert (28:46):
Oh my gosh! I just learned something new about you. Meanwhile, I'm dropping curses and fucking the kids are like, mom, do you know what this music, do you know what they're saying? I'm like, yeah, yeah, just go with it.
Rachel Downey (28:57):
It's fine. It's fine.
Gayle Kalvert (28:58):
Alright, my last question. Time blocking. Are you a hell yes, I time block or I can't survive? Or like f no, no, no, no. Or are you like time blocking curious?
Rachel Downey (29:11):
I have been a intense time blocker now. I am a flexible time blocker, so it is actually a tactic I use to make sure that everything that I know needs to happen gets done. Otherwise I found myself just stressed all the time and so now I just make sure that the few things that are running in my head that I know I have to get done, I will put that on the calendar as a time block. The rest of it though, I kind of let flex based on what the business needs or my family needs.
Gayle Kalvert (29:39):
Okay, okay. Yeah. I'm like how do we time block for all the different categories in our life?
Rachel Downey (29:42):
You can't. I can't. And I also don't like that kind of structure. It makes me feel trapped, so I just do it on the things I need to.
Gayle Kalvert (29:50):
Exactly. I'm like, wait, I own my own business. I wanted some sort of control over my schedule. Well, if my time block is yelling at me all the time, that feels bad. And then I'm the one that blocks out time and then deletes it.
Rachel Downey (30:03):
Yeah.
Gayle Kalvert (30:03):
I'm time blocking curious. I'm going to come back and give everybody an update. If anybody else would like to try to time block, I can post. I've found some good information, like I need help. Clearly people are loving this system and I have to do it.
Rachel Downey (30:16):
It works. I will say that it works.
Gayle Kalvert (30:18):
Okay. Alright, well, that is a wrap for us today. Thanks, Rachel.
Rachel Downey (30:23):
Thanks.
Gayle Kalvert (30:24):
I hope that was helpful. If you know someone that you go to for this topic, send them my way. After all, we're just figuring this out together. See you next time.