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In your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist we meet Michael, a courageous spirit. He describes a long history of "traditional" therapy that didn't work and the invitation to psychedelics he decided to take. Michael shares his story of sexual abuse and trauma and finds a series of MDMA sessions that save his life and heal him in a way he never thought was possible. In this episode, we learn the importance of doing this work in an incremental way and listening to ones intuition. This episode is full of valuable information regarding the importance of trusting the process.
Dr. Ryan Westrum is the author of The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
Website: Healingsoulsllc.com
The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
If you could take a moment finding
a place, a small opportunity to
carve out a moment to connect
with yourself, breathing in.
And breathing out, grounding yourself,
centering and calibrating the here and now
taking a moment to exercise
confidence, faith, and comfort.
In your body,
breathing in and breathing out,
noticing what your body is sharing
with you at this given moment, maybe
tension in the back, potentially
ease gentleness, a fluidity of sorts.
With one more breath in and a
gentle releasing breath out.
I encourage you to open your eyes coming
back to center, focus in the here and now.
hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today's podcast.
You're going to hear from one of my
guests, Michael, who explores and
shares their unique story coming
from 2, 3, 4 different sessions.
He gives us an intimate glimpse
of not giving up on the ultimate
work that psychedelics are Michael.
It's great to hear your voice.
Great to see you.
How are you coming in today?
I'm doing great.
Absolutely great.
You and I have been working some
time together now using the time to
integrate and find different spiritual
purposes, different storylines.
How long has it been?
We've been working over a year now.
Yeah.
And we're integrating a fresh
experience that you recently had.
That's correct.
That came.
Yeah.
Last Friday.
The last one I did, with my therapist
and, probably the best one yet.
I mean, and I know they don't happen.
You have to build on 'em
and this was so successful.
You say, build on them.
Can you elaborate what you
mean personally about that?
Because this, um, sounds.
Opened a profound door to you.
What came first?
What, what was the building
that you needed to do?
Well with my situation.
My situation, having a, was a incest
situation from when I was 10 years old.
And so when I went into this, you know,
having been to several therapists,
you know, under the mainstream.
Scenario and they were all helpful, but
still I was lacking the set, the peace
and the self love that I, I needed.
And so I went into this, having been
referred by somebody else and that
the first session was pretty brutal.
And, what I mean by that is, you
know, I did what the therapist said,
put everything on the shelf and I
went into it and dealt with all of.
You know, the person that caused the pain
and the forgiveness and forgiving myself.
And then each of the next two
after that were very similar.
And, the therapist, I remember saying at
the last one, you know, when I came too,
he said, you you're gonna need some water.
You've been crying for
three hours straight.
And, and that's kind of what I
did for the first, like the first
three, but it was so important to.
All that stuff outta the way,
forgiving the person, forgiving
myself for giving, and then getting
to the point of self love, which
is I tried to do at the last one.
But along with the self love comes with
so many regrets and so much sadness about.
What was stolen from you all those years.
And I'm, I'm 61 years old.
And I dealt with this for the first
time when I was 43, having had that
happen at 10 years old, I went 33 years
without talking about it to anybody.
So I would say it's, it's a brutal
process, but the reward is off
the charts and it takes a lot
of people say it takes courage.
I never understood that,
but it really does.
It's, there's a lot of courage and
vulnerability that I just wanna pause and.
Michael, give you a deep sense
of gratitude for the work and
pulling up that conversation.
Isn't easy.
How are you feeling right now?
gratitude's a great word.
You know, very peaceful now, you
know, granted was just last Friday,
but every day brings a, a new feeling
and a new sense of, reassurance as to
this was as to how positive this was.
What's landing for you right now.
What is that positivity?
That piece, that reassurance explained
to me where you're sitting right
now and what needs to be chewed
on, or maybe even just discussed.
I'd love to hear what happened and
what's transpiring, the days following.
that's a good question.
So through the process, after going
under and, and during the, the session,
and I'm able to come out and take the
blindfolds off my eyes and talk to the
therapist and, and process the different
things and get a different look at it.
And, and what comes to my mind.
,the amount of peace that I
had through the whole thing.
And, and I remember, therapist saying,
you can have this all the time.
What would that be like?
And the questions such as, you know, I
have a, a person in my life that loves
me and it's like, what would that be
like, if you just totally trusted it
and committed, you know, cha so I'm
being challenged even why I'm still.
In a state of peace in my mind and trying
to inform what does that look like?
Cause when you go through what I have,
you come with a lot of guilt and shame.
That's what runs your show.
you come with trust issues and all
those are separate onions to peel back.
And you know, the four sessions,
this last session, I was really
able to peel back of the self love.
And what's it feel like to accept it?
Yeah, what's coming up right
now, accepting that self love.
the thing, what comes up is that it's,
it's something you wanted forever, but
you didn't really know what it felt like.
You think it's out there and you
know, you're in a bad place and you
look at other people cuz you tend to
judge yourself more than anybody else
and, and you, you don't think that
that's really possible or you think
that they're all bullshit and they're
really not having that good of time.
And, mm-hmm then you get to a place
where you actually love yourself and,
and you're able to put boundaries around.
And again, I think people in my
situation run life with so little
boundaries that cause so many problems.
And to be able to look at yourself
and value yourself that you understand
it, and you're gonna protect yourself
by those boundaries where before,
if you don't love yourself, you
don't, you you're always a victim.
I think that's probably another thing
that came out of last Friday was.
I'm not a victim.
You know, I'm not gonna be allowed.
I may be a victim in the sense
of what happened, but I'm not
gonna live a life where, you know,
that's gonna drive me anymore.
And it's been a long time.
that it's and rightfully
deserving your work.
And just that story alone and
hearing the emotion that you're
sharing, continuing that self love.
Tell me about what that
looks like for you.
What are you acknowledging when
you wake up in the morning?
It's it's interest cuz the people
around me have a different meeting.
people around me before, as I
was grasping for straws for that
love and, and, and probably, you
know, toxically, for validation.
And why does this person, why does my
children have to validate me when I'm
an adult and, and what that effect
that had on them to, to be sitting in
a place where I don't need validation,
I'm a beautiful person and I'm valued.
And I bring something to the
table for everyone and, and.
That one of the things that were
said last Friday that really hit
home is I, I may have done toxic
things, but I'm not a toxic person.
And I used to say to my children,
you know, Hey, look, I'm a nice guy.
Why are you judging me this way?
So I had to ask and tell
that I'm a nice guy.
And, but the reality is I was toxic.
My, my actions were toxic and I didn't
see 'em at the time because I was in
so neat of validation and so much guilt
and shame over everything, but to wake
up and, you know, since Friday to, to
not have any of that and understand
I was toxic and looked back at it and
not staring it and, and wallowing the.
But move forward and you know, to
be the person they wanna be around.
So I appreciate you recognizing
that, that we've done toxic things
and it's not gonna take hold of
us and honoring it, looking at it,
acknowledging it, but not living in that
moving forward in this session.
And you were experiencing so much.
Is it like now to make sense of it?
How are you making sense of it?
Journaling kind of going back to some of
those big experiences, it becomes almost
overwhelming in the sense to integrate.
Has it been easy to integrate
what you experienced on Friday?
I would say for the most part, yes.
interesting things, for those who have
been in my position, you know, before
I dealt with it for 30 years, I, 33
years, I played the movie in my head.
I act that happened to me
every, every, violation.
And then, you know, since I started going
through therapy, which was a long process,
you know, seeing different therapists
and really working reading books, then
I got to where I I'd done this work.
Right.
And, what came out of
Friday was interesting.
I sat on my balcony on Friday
and, For some reason I was playing
everything through my head.
the, it started with the day
I told my family, my parents
and, and my brother was there.
Who, who was the perpetrator and,
and, everything that happened
after that moment, I could see it
so vividly every conversation cuz
everybody worried about him, not me.
It, it's kind of funny how that happens.
You know, I brought it out and everybody
worried about how's that affecting, you
know, my brother and how's, how is he?
Okay.
Is he gonna commit suicide?
And then I was left alone.
You know, I was the guy that brought it
out and nobody seemed to care about me.
So I played all that in my head.
And then I played every instant
that happened all the, all
the times I was violated.
And it was so vivid and clear and.
The interesting part is I didn't go
in to pour me and wallow in it and I
just recognized it and I was able to
shut the door on it when it was over.
And I can talk about it now without
crying or, you know, and, a lot of
forgiveness in it of self and, and,
and my brother for that matter.
And there was another individual
that was involved in it and,,
it it's, but, but that I would
never have gotten to that point.
Without those other
integration, opportunities.
So that's phenomenal in the sense.
And thank you.
Thank you so much.
I hear you.
I witness you in that and to be able
to do that is what this experience
is with psychedelics is it's not
ignoring it and it's a big misnomer.
It's not eradicating it.
It's not putting it off into other space.
It's actually coming into concert with it.
The way you said it by shutting the door.
Yeah.
What's coming up right now.
When you hear yourself in that power.
You know, what's, you
know, it's coming up.
I know people are listening to this.
And, if anybody's listening to
this, my message is you, you
need to seek out this process.
There's no need to stay where you are.
And it's a shame.
I was stuck in that for so long,
but it, you know, this, I wasn't
introduced to this till a year ago.
And I, I just think I, I,
I get overwhelmed with I, I
would, if it helps one person.
the amount of damage that is done
in everybody's life, around them,
their kids, their family, their
spouses, by what happened when
I was little, is off the charts.
And so to me, if one person can hear this
and seek out this process, I'll be happy.
Yeah.
And you're exonerating yourself as that.
You're what happened to you.
You were a victim, but you are
not being victimized anymore and
do you mind me asking what's the
medicine that you met, you were the used
therapist, used MDM a for the first two
times, then a combination of MB MDM a
and psilocybin the third, and then this,
Friday was MDM, a, a little larger dose.
Yeah.
And you're finding ease fluidity
and a connection to that.
Being able to unlock things that
you never thought were capable.
I don't know if it's unlocked
is quite the story, process, you
know, perfectly said been there.
I've never processed it.
Yeah.
Can you elaborate on that?
What, what are you processing right now?
Well processing, whether this person
that's in my life that loves me and
processing, what does that look like
by leaning in and, and, and, and really
living that and which I did this past
weekend, which made it amazing , and of
course then comes to your mind well, that
continue, you know, and you want it to
continue so bad and I believe it will.
, And, I gotta believe everybody,
anybody that's gone through,
what I've gone through.
Commitment is an issue for me.
And, and because commitment
is a trust issue, right.
, you're gonna trust you, you're gonna
commit, but the other person's gonna
do whatever to you, and, so just in
processing, you know, I think I made the
comment that unfortunately at a young
age, I learned love in a wrong way.
I really fucked it.
I really fucked up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A real fucked up way.
Yeah.
And then, and then how
do you get out of that?
How do you learn it differently?
And this is really provided.
Lot clarity, I think is, the,
the clarity is off the charts.
So, and you're witnessing this
clarity manifest within asking for
what you need and showing up in
a vulnerable way with the person
that's close to you in your life.
Right.
A hundred percent.
Do you find yourself, basking in it,
living in it acknowledging the difference?
Oh, for sure.
We've talked about it too.
You know, we talked about it too.
So start there again.
You talked about what.
We, we I've shared the process.
I shared the process with
my significant other.
Who's a recent relationship in
the last, you know, 90 days.
And,, it helped to be accepted for
who I am and which tells you, you the
right person too, that tells you a lot.
And her comment about.
What this weekend was
like, was unbelievable.
Oh, this is important for for me so
well, and this is super important that
I'm hearing you're actually coming
and I hear the emotional release too.
Yeah, what's the, I'm
gonna ask what's the body.
Tell you when you are received by
your intimate partner with so much
affection and, and understanding.
I think the term came up, how easy
things are, you know, everything's easy.
And that was comment was
made by the therapist.
It's.
What would it be like if it, if,
if it was this easy all the time,
because it can be and accepting the
fact that it's this easy, right.
And trust in it, rather
look around the corner.
Okay.
What's wrong with this?
And what, what's their agenda?
The other person's agenda, it can't be cuz
they like me, so well and Michael you're
acknowledging your trauma and I admire.
You still have that as a tool.
Right.
And I don't wanna negate that.
Don't wanna tell you, you can't
continue to look over your shoulders
because I do believe you deserve safety
yet in this circumstance with your
intimate partner, what are you doing
as a trust experiment and exploration
with her that you go, oh, there it is.
I probably need to tell
her how I'm feeling.
our communication has
just been really good.
I'm not afraid to tell me, tell her
I'm uneasy about something, or I
need a little space without being
afraid that person's gonna run away.
Cause I think she's feeling
the commitment more than ever.
So it puts her in a , a better spot.
And I think of my past relationships
because of my distrust and my.
Lack of self worth.
I think I was, that projected
on the other person.
So they guess what they, they
mirrored it and, it made it really
hard to have any type of meaningful
relationship, but I never realized that.
So, and today being in this deep,
deep experience of love, self trust,
self-acceptance self-validation, what's
the easiest way you're exercising.
It.
What's the newness that you're
witnessing in your day to day life.
There's so much peace in it that I
don't have this anxiety behind it.
And, I'm not looking to get any
validation out of somebody else.
I'm not looking for anything
out of another relationship
to make me feel a certain way.
I'm showing up with that.
I'm showing up way different in
relationships because of it and more
And moving forward with this
work, what are you doing to.
Get out of your comfort zone or
stay in your comfort zone when it
feels so easy, but yet, so new,
what are you acknowledging in that?
well, I, I, I tend to go back to
Friday a lot and I tend to, to realize
that it, it didn't just happen.
It's that I've worked on
this to get to this point.
So I'm giving myself more credit.
For my feelings.
I'm not giving somebody else the power
that somebody else gave me this gift,
you know, that, can you please expound?
What is it like to give yourself
credit for all the work and
energy you've put into your life?
What gives me myself worth,
you know, that I didn't have.
And, it gives me the ability
to accept love, which I didn't
have the ability to do before.
Yeah.
The ability to see it, provide it and
receive it and judge it as real or
not real rather than want it so bad.
You'll overlook how real it really is
or accept less than you should accept,
which I think people in my situation
accept a lot less than, than other people.
And what's the saying that you've
provided me with, is it fuck the fuck.
No.
Is that what I've heard you say?
Fuck to the fuck.
No, right.
Fuck to the fuck.
No, that you are not going to
accept less and you are not going
to meander into someone else's
lack of boundaries and disrespect.
When I think what happens, I look at
past relationships and, the ability
for them to manipulate and Gaslight
you when you carry so much shame on
your own, it it's hard to weed out.
What's true.
So you get stuck in it.
And, looking back, it's pretty
clear and it's no wonder people
around me kept telling me
that's a fucked up relationship.
What are you doing?
And I used to say, there's
a most healthy people.
Would.
Told that person goodbye long time
ago, but I wasn't healthy obviously.
And so people around me never
understood why wouldn't I leave her?
They would've never came up
with, oh, he's not healthy.
But they'd also come, come up
with something's really wrong
with me, not her, for sure.
Sure.
And that leads me to say that
some things are sacred and some
things are uncomfortable and
hard to provide us secrets such
as sexual abuse, sexual trauma.
So.
In your defense, it's hard to meander
and share our whole story with everybody.
And then them get a sense of, oh, that's
why I invite myself into unhealthy
relationships or that's why I'm in.
And so listening to you, you've
acknowledged I'm playing my role, my part
in this being comfortable in my uncomfort.
But you're also hearing you say,
I'm leaning into something new
I'm believing in that trust.
Absolutely.
And I, and I think for anybody that
was in my situation or those who
are in my situ, what my situation
was is, you may come off as a toxic
person, but you're, you're using the
only tools, you know, that you've
learned over the years and, and, and.
Once you get healthy, you know, I think
the possibility of moving back into
those bad situations is very, very slim.
Tell me about those new tools
you're picking up avoiding
what tools you don't need.
What are the new tools that you're
acknowledging within your self?
Well, I think when you finally have
self worth and, self love, you're able
to look at other people differently.
And, and, and that's where
I think grace comes in.
You can have grace over the fact that
what's going on in their head is more
about their issues than it's about
any issue you brought to the table.
But in, in the past, I would take their
issue and I would become the reason
that there's an issue and I would
take it all on in the relationship.
And so therefore I can never fix the
relationships cuz I think the other
person needs to do this, this and this.
Or if I just do something
different in the relationship
, they'll see me for who I am.
But I couldn't possibly do that because I
didn't have love for myself to show them
who I really was and you get those bad
and they come with their own toxic issues.
So their ability to Gaslight
you and things like that
are, are very easy for them.
And it's easy to get stuck in that
type of, of a situation where I don't
think that'll ever happen to me again.
Yeah.
It's as if the.
Gasket has been turned off and
you like, see it from a million
miles away, the gas lighting, the
manipulation, the aggression, the
avoidance, the lack of intimacy.
So providing yourself deeper into
grace and self-love and compassion.
What's on the horizon for you.
When do you know?
I deeply appreciate that will
never happen again to you.
What's your cadence.
Let me put it this way.
What is your rhythm for knowing when
you need to go into these experiences?
Again, since Friday?
Being such a wonderful day.
Well, I'm just, I wanna keep a, a real
strong eye on where I'm sitting with
myself and my partner and those around me.
And I, I also see the importance
of putting this on the calendar in
the future., You never wanna do it?
I don't think there's ever gonna
be a too late to do it again, but
I don't wanna have to get to where
I'm in a situation where I ha I
have a need to pick something.
I'd rather look at it as
a need for, maintenance.
I love that word maintenance.
Yeah.
Providing this idea to.
Lean into it.
Not necessarily when like the world
is coming to an end or needing
to solve for a monumental problem
or recreate historical trauma.
It's this maintenance phase.
That means your intuition
is then coming up.
Right.
Your gut, your body right now.
I also look.
You know, just physically I'm
feeling better, in so many ways.
So if you really start looking at
not to talk about cost of it, I
mean, you can look at this as being
expensive, but you can look at it.
It's pretty expensive being freaking
doctor offices all the time and, and,
and to burn, countless hours of fucking
yourself in your head over things.
So you start putting a, what's
the cost and the price of that.
So I am profoundly grateful for
that because at the end of the
day, they wanna bring you in and
bring you in and keep you tethered.
Whereas once you take the power,
what's it like to take that power of
saying, this is when I'm gonna do it.
This is how I'm gonna do it.
That consent.
Well, it's, it's fairly new to me.
So it's hard to express.
I mean, it's, it's a new
situation for me completely.
And, I come with this word,
clarity and peace, and, and it
didn't happen in one session.
It didn't, it doesn't mean
that I did one session.
I got nothing out of it.
I mean, I, I couldn't have got to the four
session without any of those other ones.
I had to move some
boulders out of the way.
And each one of those sessions,
I, my integration process allowed
me to determine what I needed
to hang onto and what I didn't.
So.
You're beautiful spirit.
What are the ways you're gonna
walk with gentleness today?
I'm gonna smile a lot