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We're going behind the scenes to see and understand modern agriculture, because no matter whether you're in it or not, you probably don't know all the pieces to just how incredible, diverse and multi-layered agriculture is. We do this by uncovering the real stories, experiences and voices of modern agriculture.
Oli Le Lievre 0:00
The Better Business series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. Across these next few weeks and episodes, we're going behind the scenes and chatting to some people who are making some serious impact in inroads across Australia. And they're not just limited to agriculture. Our aim is to uncover what's worked for them, discuss their learnings, and through their stories provide ways for you to get some of those aha moments or things that might be able to benefit you, your business and your community. Welcome back to episode two with Phil Flores, the brand and marketing manager at his family owned mongrel boats. If you haven't listened to the first part of our chat, jump on back and give it a listen. In the second part of our chat, we sit down with Phil, and understand how he manages the communication needs and channels to ensure that his voice, as the grandson of the owner of the business is heard in the decision making. Phil and I chat about the opportunity to sit alongside his family members every single day and discuss the business in various settings, how they approach formal and informal meetings, and how the shifting needs of a modern workplace is managed. As well as fulfilling his role, which is in brand and marketing, he's actually evolving to make sure that they're up to date with the latest trends, but also making sure that they can attract and retain the different types of customers and get the engagement that they need. So it's a fascinating aspect is something which is probably a little bit removed from farming, but there's definitely lots of learnings in this love to hear what your takeaways are. So after this episode, reach out. Let's get into it. In the first episode, Phil, what we kind of covered was a little bit about you and your background and coming into the family business as well as kind of the history and legacy. But also, I think some of those similar challenges of what has faced Monroe over the years, but also is facing kind of Australia, but also Australian agriculture in terms of workforce challenges, and that need to adapt. What I'd love to know, from your perspective, you guys have been running this family business now for five generations. And how do you guys approach that coming back to maintaining the legacy of why the business was established, but also then looking at it in the sense of how do we keep evolving to be relevant in the changing society?
Speaker 2 2:23
Well, I think that's really weird. The Next Generation gives a little bit of guidance in a way, like, if you look at our structure, at the moment, we've got three different generations of the family currently working in the business. So one of the spectrum, you got my grandfather, who's 85, you got me, who's 30, and then my dad who's 60. So, you know, we all have me and my dad, I guess we'd be a little bit closer in terms of our vision of the business side with my uncle sort of where it is where it's going. And then my grandfather with he's, you know, he's, he's probably a little bit different in the way, and maybe just what he's lived through and what he's seen, sometimes, you know, what he sort of feels and thinks is the right thing or where the business is going, or what we should be doing is a little bit different to us. So I feel like sometimes the the sort of new generation coming into the business may have their finger on the pulse, and have a slightly better idea as to the environment we're operating in and the future. But that's the sort of benefit of having multiple generations in the business, you've got all different viewpoints, and different ideas. And realistically, the best thing to do is sort of sit down and you know, just come up with the best outcome in terms of what we're doing and where we're going. And what we need to do to keep up to date with modern business practices or the product to make sure it doesn't get outdated or get sort of left behind, and not sort of resting on our laurels too much and like legacy too much. So we are always looking at updating the business, modernizing processes, product offering marketing, stuff like that,
Oli Le Lievre 3:46
you've given me a bit of an aha moment there where like in the sense of you that's actually kind of the wedge between the two generations that actually like we're I've always thought of it being okay to say people of our generation and their parents generation will actually that is there really is a span across three generations in that conflict. I'm sure you could just remind it out every now and then just be like Dad, just remember when you told me about a
Speaker 2 4:10
blessing and a curse you like that's a family businesses a life sentence. But sometimes things you know get relatively not heated but just you know, different ages, different generations, different ideas, like that's the beauty of it in a way. But you know, realistically the main goal is to do what's best for the business. That's ultimately the end goal when I go to work every day like everything I do there I'm not doing it to try and better myself or my career like it's all for the business like I tell people, you know, our brand, our logo, the Mongrel logo, the dog like it's more or less it's like a coat of arms for the family really like sometimes. Although you know, we love feedback good and bad. Sometimes like when you hear a negative thing or someone you know, says a voter logoed or something and it really hits it pulls our strings and sort of hurts maybe, to me more than say another rip footwear brand because it is our family's business. It is our name or What's on the line. So, you know, everything we do, and not just me, the whole family, like the idea is to benefit the business and the brand and move it forward and help out standing, whether it's in the market share with the community, or, you know, everything like that.
Oli Le Lievre 5:12
One thing I'm keen to understand on that. So, obviously, for you guys to be successful as a business, you've got to bring other people who aren't family into your business. So how do you guys go, building the business, which has family values, but then also, making sure it is inclusive for people who are coming from the outside and go, Oh, actually, this is something I really want to be part of.
Speaker 2 5:31
Yeah, it is probably a little bit tricky, to be honest. And this is where like, the culture side of things, or not so much the culture, but my grandfather, we probably run a leaner management structure compared to say, other brands, maybe similar size to ourselves. And that probably comes down to he's got a pretty old school mentality and sort of do it yourself. So he doesn't really believe in, you know, of course, we do have some other management in place that are not family. But when you sort of float new roles, or new jobs or opportunities or something, here's sort of mentality, as you know, you just do a little so and so can do it, who's also part of the family has or has been doing it. So it is a bit of a challenge. And it is probably one part of the business web again, because traditionally, we have been quite product focused, he likes to run things, a little bit leaner on the management side of things. So, you know, more or less all the main management roles are held by family members. But of course not not all, you know, like the foreman in the factory and some other management positions in our office there. They're not our family, but he at the moment, we employ, I think about 78 odd people, including all the factory workers, and we also have reps, who are our sales force. So we more or less have a rep in each state. And some of them we have to. So
Oli Le Lievre 6:43
with that, like, how do you coming at it from, as you said, you kind of grandfather's always been product lead where you come at it with a really fresh cut. And it is really obvious a brand marketing approach, which is relevant and toxic kind of modern consumers. So how do you make sure that your ideas are actually being heard and considered when it comes to that decision making table,
Speaker 2 7:03
or we just raise your voice a little bit more. And that's the difficult part. You know, that's where like, especially me and my grandfather, I guess, because of the age difference, and, you know, I am very product focused as well. But I will say that I think I have a very, you know, 5050 split on product and sales and marketing. Like I feel like they're both essential. But yeah, it's sometimes a bit of a challenge to get your point across or convince him at the end of the day, like he's the director, he's the boss. So it's not like you can sort of overrule him. So it's more if he's against something at first, like that might be a necessity that everyone else is doing. And we need to do like whether it's some degree promotion, or sales or something like that. So I think it's not product specific related. You just sort of keep debating it or, you know, putting your point forward. And then usually, like, if it's a good enough idea, sooner or later you'll you'll convince the right people and get it done. But I feel like you know, my role that when I've been sort of controlling the marketing more or less for five or six years now, like I've demonstrated that I'm relatively competent in doing what I'm doing. So I haven't sort of made to me backhauls yet, I hope. So the idea is like you do the right thing and get confidence instilled by you, by your seniors who are, you know, my dad, my uncle, my grandfather, and then you just sort of hope they let you do your own thing, as long as you don't sort of go out of, you know, stay in the lane and don't sort of veer to too far wide or do anything too bad.
Oli Le Lievre 8:23
No, too wacky partnerships or anything? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 8:27
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. 100%? Yeah, it's just a case of, you know, I've had a lot of guidance from my dad and my grandfather and my uncle on certain things. And, yeah, I'm not sure when it's your own brand, I think you also there's a degree of, you put a bit more thought maybe into your decisions or your, you know, there's a little bit more riding on it. Or, like I said, even hearing people talk negatively about our brand, it really, you know, it gets me down in a way. So I want to make sure whatever we're doing, whether it's on the sales side, or the marketing side, or the boots themselves, he really just want to keep everybody happy for our not only our customers, but the retailers that sell our boots, we have a bit of a really strong network of retailers Australia wide, both Metro and regional, say, you know, we do put a big emphasis on our relationships with them. And I think I've been on the road now for about five years. And I really enjoyed my time out there and just, you know, meeting the people who are on the coalface that are selling the boots, and I've seen the the success and you know, the sales that you know, the beneficial side of having those relationships, those face to face relationships, people, especially people in the bush, they really do in some towns that are quite far out, they really appreciate when you get out there and see them and you don't just flick them an email or, you know, they know they can contact me for anything. So I've really seen the positive side of having strong relationships with my customers in the bush and they know anything they they they can give me a call or flick me an email and they'll sort it out. And the cool thing about that is quite often once you establish those relationships and you have a good product, like the sales naturally begin to increase and the retailers get more confidence in the boots and it's very rewarding. You know, it's awesome when I go sometimes, you know, I'm in a town and You walk around and every third or fourth person, you look out to wearing a pair of mongrels. And it's pretty humbling in a way to, you know, like you say, all the boots come out of our factory and to see how far and wide they travel and, you know, even to get some of the emails we get, and people tell us, you know, just how much a good pair of boots makes a difference to their back, or their working life, like some of these people that are in seven days a week, you know, 1215 hours a day, sometimes, if not more, it's pretty cool. Like when you're on the factory floor, it's in the office, sometimes you don't sort of think that far ahead, as to the impact the positive impact that the product is having to people's lives. And, you know, the beauty of it is like they're they're using them to work and in their businesses to and which generates their livelihood. So it's a bit of a knock on effect.
Oli Le Lievre 10:41
Absolutely. On the business front, do you guys have like, these are going to be more like a communication, Business Admin kind of question. But like, do you guys have regular weekly meetings, monthly meetings to actually set the structure of what you guys are trying to achieve? Or how do you go about that?
Speaker 2 10:54
So pretty much we have two what we call unofficial meetings a day, which is morning tea and lunch. Pretty much every morning tea and lunch. It's me, Dad, my uncle, my grandfather, and my cousins are in the boardroom. And, you know, it's not really a lunch break in the scheme of things. It's more of a person meeting. But yeah, you know, the beauty of being we're all in the same building five days a week. So we don't often you know, bar when one or two of us out of the office, working office in customers or something, you know, all you have to do is walk into the whoever you want to see his office and have a chat being or family, we don't often have to set sort of zoom meetings or call a specific time to all come together. So some of the Ito's like overproduction team has a meeting like a meeting every morning and sales wise, you know, that's always in touch with the reps and locater, we have linkups on the phone, and we go into State to visit the reps and visit customers and stuff. But we're more or less as always connected, I wouldn't say there's, you know, we don't often need to schedule in specific times. And my grandfather's pretty old school. So like, if there's something on his mind, or there's something that needs to be discussed, like, it'll just sort of keep the door down, go in at the start sort of chewing the fat about it. It's not like you get an email request for a meeting, and you'll come together in the boardroom at certain time. You know, there is definitely parts of our business that are pretty old school in that way. You know, we still accept audits by fax or fax, phone, email, anything. And some of that probably does come from the top down with building pretty old school like he's 85. And he's, he's still in the office five days a week, he actually gets into the factory at about 5am every morning. And he doesn't leave until four or 430.
Oli Le Lievre 12:23
All right, that's insane. And it's just really passionate that's driving him, he just absolutely loves it.
Speaker 2 12:28
Well, yeah, he doesn't know anything else to be honest. Like, he doesn't want to retire. Like he doesn't have a whole lot of hobbies. To be honest, he reckons he still gets a kick out of working, he even tells us he's working harder longer than ever these days. But he's just a generation, you know, like, they're just, you know, almost born to work in the sense he's never had dreams to retire or want to spend time really away from workload. Now, a few years ago, now, my grandmother used to drag you away for the occasional holiday for a week or a few days. And he sort of used to go kicking and screaming, he really wasn't keen on it at all. Like he's sort of happiest when he's when he's at work. And, you know, like, I do think it's a generational thing. You know, he's seen he's, and he's heard stories from his dad, too, about living through the Depression. And that was drummed into him from an early age, like sort of keep your money aside for a rainy day and work and don't sort of, you know, pick it up on the wall. And he's got a few, a few choice words to say about this generation now that, you know, like, I suppose, a lot of people whose age but we do as well about what we spend money on and on holidays here or there, we go across the world and do this. And he can't understand that, really, he just doesn't understand why people don't just want to work and pay off your house and have a family and stuff like that. So I personally think it's a generational thing. You know, if you look at our age group, now, people in their 30s 40s, what we have access to now is very different to people who were in their 80s or 90s. Now, you know, what they had access to and had our age and globalization as a big part of that, and travel costs coming down and everything went down. I
Oli Le Lievre 13:53
better not tell him that I was on holidays last week. So yeah, yeah, that's what
Speaker 2 13:57
I mean. He's almost like, you know, I tell people about him, when I'm out visiting customers. And he's almost like a bit of an enigma or me, it's like, you tell people about this guy, that's 85. And he owns a business and he still comes in at five o'clock every morning. And he works five days a week. And like, to most people that's just like such a, you know, like, it's a really cool story. And I can see people's fascination with it. Like, it's a pretty rare, sort of a thing. But you know, even for me, it's quite inspirational as well, like, it gives you something to aim for. I don't know, personally, I'm sure if I'll still be coming into the office five days a week when I'm 85. But, you know, you see the drive and the motivation that this guy has got at that age, when really, you know, he could just be sitting at home or tired or relaxing somewhere and he wants to come into work every day. Yeah, sometimes I look at him when he's leaving, and he sort of, you know, he's getting old now. He's got a walking stick and he's carrying his briefcase and he sort of hunched over a little bit and it's it's quite incredible when you think this guy still has that that's what he wants to do every day. You know, like he just gets up and it's probably like the same. When I'm out in the bush visiting customers. Sometimes you see a lot of elderly farmers and you can tell they're 80 or 90 odd as well. They still look while they got their boots on and their shorts and work shirts and they look like they just jumped out over the tractor, or they've been in the paddock or hurting chasing cattle around. And again, that's probably something they've done their whole life. And they sort of find it difficult to sort of sit still or not do anything.
Oli Le Lievre 15:10
And they thought they wouldn't know what to do if they had nothing to do.
Speaker 2 15:13
Yeah. And, you know, I think he's at the point now, where it's keeping him going. I just feel like probably too late to stop now, which you know, he'll be fine with because like I said, we're definitely not forcing him to come in every day, he just turns up.
Oli Le Lievre 15:25
So it'd be remiss of me not to ask, but do you guys chat about succession actively as part of the family?
Speaker 2 15:31
Yeah, look, I'd say yes, yes. And no, like, occasionally, it's definitely not something, we focus on too much luck, it is probably something we need to focus on more. You know, we've recently had like, in the last 10 years, we've had the next generation come into the business on, you know, me being one of them out of three, and with the directors, eight, and we're gonna call this age 85, it is probably something that needs to happen. But yeah, I wouldn't say there's sort of like conversation around it. But yeah, to be honest, we haven't sort of, there's nothing set in stone just right now. But it's, um, you know, in a way as well, I'd say it's one of those things that sort of occurs naturally, like, as long as you sort of have an idea in terms of ownership and stuff at the stuff, though, that's a little bit, you know, above my head at the moment. But, you know, we've been going for five generations now. And I'd say, it's probably one of those things that year sort of just occurs naturally, when the time's right, like, I guess there is a little bit of a structure in place as to what's going to happen. And but you know, nobody knows when that changeover is gonna happen, or, you know, sometimes in one generation, and you know, like, I know, my grandfather's age, it happened a lot earlier with him taking control the business, like compared to believe his father was in a sort of 60s, and he handed it down to his three sons at the time, and sort of went into semi retirement. And obviously, my grandfather's well past that sort of age bracket now. So I think it's one of those sort of bridges, we'll cross when we come to it. But you know, there's a bit of a sort of understanding of what's going to happen, or, you know, I don't think there's hopefully it's not gonna be too many arguments or stuff like that.
Oli Le Lievre 16:52
Yeah. And you don't have to answer this question at all. But, um, like, a question I've got in the sense of, like, it seems like, ownership for you is something that that's down the track. And yeah, literally, tell me if you don't answer this, how you're viewed within the business? Are you an employee in the sense of you're remunerated for the skill set and what you bring at that level? So that ownership thing is not something that you like hanging on to them be able to go and live your life in activities and whatnot?
Speaker 2 17:19
Oh, no, not particularly like, again, I feel like it's just one of those things where, you know, you're gonna get to unlock my grandfather refers to me and I, and my other cousins, as well on my dad and my uncle as as owners, which technically we're not, but you know, he's just talking about the family as a whole. But yeah, sure, like, it's an opportunity that I would embrace at some point in the future, I believe it will, it will come at some point, you know, not I don't imagine fully, but part of it with somebody else, or other family members as well. But it's definitely not something that I'm sort of sort of cracking my neck to get a hold of it at the moment.
Oli Le Lievre 17:51
Fair enough. Now, two questions, I want to finish on one being around, is there a specific project that you've worked on to date, or one that you can see in the future that you think will really contribute to either having done it that's brought the business forward, or that you'll look to do at some stage in the future that you think will be quite groundbreaking and innovative for the business to move forward?
Speaker 2 18:11
Probably, you know, just the marketing campaigns that we've rolled out in recent years, I feel like especially the last five years, as a company, we've really upped our branding, and our presence in the market in terms of marketing point of sale, stuff like that, that was probably in years prior is probably an area that was a little bit lacking. And I feel like with a bit of a younger mind, I've contributed well to the business in that sense, which is good, because the end of the day, that's my job, that's what I sort of get paid to do. But just modernizing it, you know, updating the branding point of sale, there's all this sort of the facets that that make up our marketing mix, we moved into TV advertising, for the first time, only about five years ago, four or five years ago, we're before that, well, mainly radio, we're quite heavy on the radio, billboards be the outdoor advertising, but the last few years have really changed up the marketing mix to bring in those much more modern mediums like heavy focus on digital TV were active and a lot of sponsorships and stuff like that. So you're probably just modernizing the marketing mix and bringing a little bit more up to date and really trying to hit that mark of the sort of 2030 year olds and, you know, change and adapt as people's, you know, the way they consume information changes, like either yourself. Now, obviously, having podcasts are like 510 years ago, nobody was listening to well, they're more or less, they barely existed, where I know myself and I drive to work, maybe 78 at a time in the car. I'm listening to podcasts. So it's more kind of a lot to do with the updating the marketing mix in just making sure we're rating our demographic and our target market and we're sort of getting in front of them.
Oli Le Lievre 19:39
And so one final question is around that opportunity to work alongside your father, your grandfather, but also your cousins, what would you say would be like the most valuable lessons you've learned through business but also life being involved with them?
Speaker 2 19:53
I can't decide to be honest, as you know, it's lessons you learn every day, you know, especially in my dad and my grandfather, like I draw a lot of things ration from the both of them, like I said, saying someone who's 85, who doesn't, you know, doesn't really need to work and could be retired team come in every day and the effort he puts in, it's quite motivating. But you know, the other thing you really encourage you to work on which to be honest, whether it's family or not, it's probably very relevant Is this your communication and your, you know, your skill set when it comes to communicating and dealing with people? I think I've been, I've learned a lot the last few years, especially with sales, like I've got 200 Odd accounts that I deal with personally, and, you know, every door you walk through, you're dealing with a different personality. Everyone's so different. So just trying to figure out ways or come up with ways to effectively communicate with them and you know, have good relationships with them, whether they're family or just customers, coworkers, any anything like that.
Oli Le Lievre 20:43
Beautiful. Well, Phil, thank you so much for jumping on and having a chat. I found it really interesting actually finding out more about the Mongrel boots, business and Victor footwear. And yeah, no
Unknown Speaker 20:55
worries. Thanks very much.
Oli Le Lievre 20:57
Cheers, man. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:58
pleasure. Thanks for Thanks for having me.
Oli Le Lievre 21:01
Now, I'd love to hear from you off the back of this one, because I think there's probably quite a few aspects of this conversation with Phil, that rings very true to many family farming businesses. I know from conversations that I've had in the front sight of us, at barbecues, at pubs with friends who are involved in their family business, that actually there's a lot of similarities to what Phil was talking to him. Maybe there's a couple of things that float up as part of this that you might take and go, Oh, well, that could work in my context, or otherwise. Now, join us next week, we've got the final two parts or the final people that we're going to interview over two episodes. Ed Bradley and B. Litchfield. From Hazel lean down in coma. Go we come into the back end of the snow season. It is a great chat and we can't wait to share it with you. So mark that one of your diaries next Friday. Come back here on the humans of agriculture podcast to get in the know, as part of our better business series. This series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. And our aim is to sit down and chat with various people who have lived experience in business management through their stories. It's our aim to share their learnings, their approaches, and how they've supported developing themselves, their businesses and their teams.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai