The NOT an MSP Show

Join Pete, Scott, Richard, and Andrew for this light-hearted, entertaining show full of lessons, mistakes, stories, & craziness from the trenches of running and selling our own MSPs.

Each week, we'll dig into the latest MSP news of the week and we'll then deep dive into a HOT topic that's super relevant to the MSP space.

(including Marketing, Sales, Pricing, Packaging, People, Service Delivery, Mindset, and more).

Andrew Moon: Episode 45, another Hump Day.

Good afternoon, good morning, good
evening, wherever you're tuning in from.

A jazz has given dance critiques to
Scott, so glad to have you with us Jazz

Scott Riley: literally outta
time every single time.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, some of us white
guys can't dance on one of them.

So uh, happy to have
you guys with us today.

We have another special guest, so we
didn't burn Robert out the first time, so

he agreed to come back for a second visit.

So we're happy to have you, uh,
rejoin us, uh, in the hooliganism.

That is the Not at MSP show.

Pete Matheson: You do look like
you're in heaven today, Robert.

Scott Riley: It does, doesn't

Robert Gibbons: It's just,
it's just a very, very boring,

um, I There's a big screen.

Andrew Moon: We thought it

Robert Gibbons: just a boring

Andrew Moon: for a second.

Robert Gibbons: board.

Yeah.

Not yet.

You haven't done with me yet.

Andrew Moon: uh, good stuff.

This is our ask us Anything.

We figured we'd bring this
back for a second month.

We're gonna make this a regular thing.

Where you can ask us anything and
everything within reason be nice.

So we'll keep it, uh, sponsor friendly,
uh, anyway, so if you have questions,

go ahead and pop those in the chat.

Uh, if you just let her, let it type in
the letter Q Colon, that way of the chat,

I could, I'll be able to find those and
make sure we don't miss your questions.

But yeah, welcome jazz.

Welcome Carlos.

Anybody else that happens to be joining
us in the interim, say hello in the chat.

Let us know where you're tuning in
from and if you happen to be sharing

your earbuds with us on the podcast,
drop that in the comments too.

Let us know that, uh, that you're
here and listening and that, uh,

we're not boring the crap out of you.

Uh, so we try to make this entertaining
as possible, so bring some fire.

Anyway.

So, uh, any questions that you guys have?

Any, what questions do you
guys have that we've gotten?

Um, maybe some, so since
some follow up shows, um,

Robert Gibbons: I, I've got a good one,
and this is probably actually aimed at

you, Andrew, uh, because you, you are
kind of the, uh, the marketing man, um,

that's in these, uh, in these windows.

Um, we've all got websites,
we've all got call to actions.

We've all got funnels that, you
know, uh, prospects fill in.

How often should you go and
test everything on your website

to make sure that it works?

Andrew Moon: Every week I've
got a te I have a ticket.

I still do it.

I still do it every week.

I have a ticket to go in
and test all the forms.

Um, yeah, so for me it's minimum weekly.

Um, but yeah, that is a,
that is a great question.

Robert Gibbons: It is, it's because,
uh, I was working with another m Mss

p um, last week and they had what
I thought was a really, really good

landing page and call to action.

And it was like, oh, you know what?

I'm gonna fill in this form and download
that PDF cause I'd really like to know.

And the form didn't work.

You could fill it all in, but you
couldn't hit the submit button.

The, the submit went nowhere.

Um, and when I contacted him, he said,
well, that page has been there for nearly

a year and we've never had any results.

I said, well, you've not had
results, cuz it doesn't work.

Andrew Moon: Oh man.

Yeah, it's kind of one
of those simple things.

We help, we all have those PSA tools.

Um, I put it, I have a recurring
task and click up that actually

goes through all of my sites.

Uh, that's a Thursday
afternoon task for me.

Uh, doing any plug-in, updates,
testing, forms, all that good fun stuff.

So, yeah,

Robert Gibbons: I just.

Yeah, I just couldn't believe it.

You know, if you build
these things, test it.

You gotta test it.

So, yeah.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Especially word

Pete Matheson: aimed at me.

Cause something I've done recently
is I've got my form, my forms are

set up and they're working okay.

But where I've been playing with
like the lead gen and the funnels

and all those kind of things, some
of the funnels I think I deleted,

but I didn't delete the form.

And I think so early this week someone
filled in a, uh, one of the lead

gen, the, the funnel kind of forms.

I've got the email in my inbox saying
they filled in the form, but I've got

a note to myself to go and check that
the actual thing they entered is now

doing something and send them somewhere.

Um, but worst case, if it doesn't,
then I'll send 'em a video and

email and just say, Hey, thanks.

Here's the thing that you
wanted like four days ago.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Robert Gibbons: Yeah.

No, it, it wasn't you.

Uh, I, I won't name them, but they're, I
won't name them, but they're near Luton.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

That's to me that, yeah, I, I
learned that a long time ago.

Um, yeah.

Gotta test everything.

Scott Riley: Now, Pete, you had a,
a giveaway for an an X 360 camera.

Um, and I think, I mean, I haven't
heard that I've won yet, um, but I

assume if I, if I didn't win, I think
it's cuz your forms weren't working

so there should, you know, there
should probably be some compensation.

I'm just, however that might be.

Pete Matheson: announced the end.

Thank you very much.

Andrew Moon: Oh, you gotta, you
gotta wait a little bit longer.

Little bit longer.

So, hey, we got Robin Grayson joining
us from Leads and Jorgen from Sweden.

Scott Riley: I'm in leaves.

It is not sunny

Andrew Moon: Yeah, not so sunny leads.

So it's, uh, Westway, it says at the,
uh, tech tribe Bri Bristol yesterday.

I don't know how you, you moss.

Hopefully

Scott Riley: Mustin.

Yep.

Yeah.

Robert Gibbons: Yeah.

Yeah.

Andrew Moon: Ask how many of
us had cyber risk insurance?

And if not, why Most of the room didn't.

Scott Riley: Yeah, I think we've,
we've also found with, um, some of the

tech drive and some of the MOS works.

Um, he now works at a
distributor, which is PAX eight.

Um, but he had, uh, his own
cyber security company working

with MSPs called Asterisks.

Um, so he's quite a character.

Everyone, you know, in the, in the
comp compeer in the UK community is,

has seen or bumped into Austin at
some point at, at one of these events.

Um, and he's trying to get, uh, a lot of
the, the more agile MSPs up to a minimum

level, like at least get, get yourself to
cyber essentials or cyber essentials plus.

Um, and again, he, he did a,
um, a cybersecurity masterclass,

uh, maybe a month ago.

And there were 26 MSPs in the
room, and I think only four or

five of them had actually achieved
cyber essentials themselves.

Um, and I don't, I think there was
only one or two that had actually

achieved cyber essentials plus.

So he's continuing to,
to drive that forward.

Um, and I think, you know, I
think it's hugely important.

I think if you are gonna go and
say to these companies, Hey, we can

sort out your cybersecurity, you
should, you know, be drinking your

own champagne, eating your own dog
food, which, you know, pick one, um,

But, um, you should have that yourself.

You know, you should hold yourself
to those same standards so that

you can then go and, and, and give
that excellent advice to clients.

Um, Andrew, in the US you have,
you have the n i s standards.

I guess, do you, do you have an
equivalent to cyber essentials,

which is, it's basically the NIS
controls, I guess you have the NIST

framework that you're working to.

Andrew Moon: And the, the interesting
thing here in the states that,

which is kind of why I want to break
down that question a little bit.

Um, because he, he said most of us
did not have cyber risk insurance.

Like here as of yet, you can get insurance
without having any type of certifi.

Scott Riley: Ah,

Andrew Moon: do think that
that is slowly changing.

Um, the big question in the air that I
see here in the States is what is, what

is going to be that minimum standard?

You know, is it going to be nist?

Is it going to be something else?

Um, especially like a, you know,
an agile msp, NIST would be a

very complicated thing to tackle,
uh, from a resource perspective.

New legislation just passed here,
so we'll see what the face of that

looks like over the next year.

But I do, I do see that being
a requirement to have some

type of minimum certification.

The insurance companies have
already gotten ahead of that, and

some of them are requiring it.

You know, you just, you at least
prove some level of competence

before they will ensure you.

Um, but yeah, there's nothing
here that says you gotta have this

or we won't issue you a policy.

Uh, it's just kind of
willy-nilly right now.

Pete Matheson: I found a lot of
the time when, um, I was looking

for cyber assurance before.

and perhaps the reason why lots of people
aren't going for the cyber insurance

themselves is by the time you go through
the process for implementing all the

things the cyber insurance policies
require you to have, there's obviously

very little chance you'll get to the
stage where you'll need the cybersecurity

input insurance policy, because that's the
reason they put all the barriers in place.

Um, but yeah, I, I, I appreciate that it's
still, you know, worth having nowadays.

Uh, but I feel that's also what's
causing ca, you know, catching

a lot of other people up.

Why?

Well, I can't pay for the policy cause I
need to spend all the money on the other,

other preventative measures instead.

So it's kind of one or the
other for, for a few people.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Scott Riley: I was gonna say, I think
it's interesting for the MSP because

for, from our perspective, you know,
yes, we'll have cyber insurance.

That's if we ourselves have some
kind of cyber breach, but it won't

include, you know, cascading impact
on customers that would come out of

our, you know, public liability or
professional indemnity insurance.

Um, and so, actually, sorry, phone if,
if one of our customers gets hacked

because we did something wrong or we
didn't do something, you know, in time,

then actually that would still come out
of our indemnity insurance, which we

still have, you know, limitations on.

Um, So cyber insurance for the
Ms P is for you as the msp.

I still think it's important to have,
and oftentimes you'll get it bundled

in with your insurance pack anyway.

Um, again, when we renewed this year,
they didn't ask at all if we have cyber

essentials or cyber essentials plus.

Um, but if you achieve any of
those, you get a free, not that

it's worth much, but a free 25,000
pound cover for cyber insurance.

It's not really worth much.

Um, our, our separate policy that
we pay for, um, has fantastic cover.

So if there's a breach, you know, we get
access to, um, cybersecurity remediation

experts and that's all paid for as part
of that policy, uh, which is really nice.

But, uh, yeah, I just thought
I'd, I'd point out, you know, just

cuz you have cyber insurance, it
isn't gonna cover your customers.

That's still gonna come out
of your indemnity insurance.

Robert Gibbons: One.

One of the other things as well, in the
small print of insurance, if you have

a breach and you have not registered it
with, in the UK we've got the ICO within

72 hours your insurance is void, so you,
you can buy cyber insurance, but if you

don't register a breach, tough luck.

Andrew Moon: So what do you
guys see as being that barrier?

Is it, is it the initial, the cost of
the insurance itself, or do you guys

think that it is the cost of meeting the
standard to even apply for the insurance?

Pete Matheson: I mean, I, I think
cyber central basic is the kind of

thing that, you know, it's, it's
what's 300 pounds, 350 pounds?

It, that, that's like nothing for
every MSP should be having that

as a, as a very bare minimum.

Um, and even the steps you need
to implement at that stage.

You don't have to spend a lot of
money, I don't think at that stage.

Most of that is just like
resetting passwords and restricting

usage and those kind of things.

Scott Riley: It's,
it's, it's bare minimum.

Robert Gibbons: if you are an MSP
and you can't pass cyber essentials,

I'D question if you're a good Ms.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, that's why I'm hoping, you know,
there's that battle between, you know,

should you legislate, should you not?

like I'm, I'm finally happy to see some
type of movement being done for that.

Um, just because it, it, it makes us all
equal in that field where, I mean, cuz

it's hard, it's hard to, you know, cost,
you know, our cost is this, our prices

are this and it's just all over this.

It is literally the wild west here in
the States because there is no reg any

type of regulation like you have to
have, there's regulation to paint my

nails here in the if I wanted to do
that, but there's no regulation for it.

Um,

Pete Matheson: that's cuz everyone
just sues everyone else out there.

Surely

Andrew Moon: Exactly.

So, you know, I'm glad they're finally
putting some, some barriers around that.

Um, I just saw that this morning,
I'm about to go pull up that article

that, um, the ransomware payouts
went down by like 40% last year.

So, . And again, I I'm gonna dig
further into that article that I saw

as to what they're attributing that to.

Are we getting better at doing our jobs?

Uh,

Robert Gibbons: No, it's just less.

No, it's just less people are
reporting what they've paid.

Andrew Moon: I, yeah, especially because
here it's a, you know, it's against the

law to pay, you know, uh, ransomware,
uh, Carlos did have a question.

I'm gonna go ahead and pop this up.

It's a little bit of a lengthy one.

Scott Riley: No, this is, this
is a question for you though.

This is, this is your sweet spot.

Andrew Moon: so I'm working
on building and trying to

attain more clients for this.

I've been learning and
focusing heavily on LinkedIn.

I'm just confused on the
best way to approach this.

Should I be growing my audience on my
personal profile or company profile?

I'll pop that back up there so I can
read it and it took me 15 seconds.

Should I post more on personal or company?

And my biggest challenge, how do
I grow audience and followers?

And which profile, personal or company?

thinking about all this, I feel
my brain is going to explode.

Okay,

Scott Riley: Yes.

Andrew Moon: that's actually an easy one.

I know that there's, there's
many schools of thought on this.

Uh, especially if you are trying to
start any type of presence on LinkedIn,

people will interact with your personal
profile way more than they ever will.

Your company profile, unless you're Nike,
Coke, apple, or some big name brand,

Pete Matheson: No.

Andrew Moon: are gonna interact
with that company page versus they

want act, interact with the owner.

I wanna interact with Scott.

I want to interact with Pete.

So to build your, you know, your
profile, you want to have both.

You want to have a company page obviously,
so you look like a legitimate business.

Uh, but two, you want em to
have your personal profile.

You want have your personal profile set
up to appeal to somebody like yourself.

A CEO wants to see a ceo.

When I log in, I want to, I want
to connect with another ceo.

I may not necessarily want to connect
with a computer technician, you know,

so it's kind of goes back and forth.

Carlos, let me know whether or not
you're in the tech tribe or not.

Um, so you've got all kinds of
resources in the tech tribe.

Um, yeah, I've got two, two courses
actually on LinkedIn in there.

One is four hours.

Uh, we slim that down to I think 80
minutes, uh, with the LinkedIn growth map.

So I walk you through exactly how
to set up your profile, exactly how

to send connection requests, exactly
how to post content, and all of that

is about building your audience.

Uh, but the key here,

Pete Matheson: um, question for you.

So I completely agree with, um, focusing
on your personal profile cuz people

deal with people That makes sense.

So the question therefore is then
what do you do with the company page?

Because the only thing that I've really
suggested is just sharing your personal

updates through the company page and then
maybe using the company page to post,

like announce many kind of things like
hiring new staff or, um, we've just won

an award or tho those kind of things.

Um, yeah, be grateful for your
thoughts around what, what you

actually do with the company page then.

Andrew Moon: that's exactly
what I do with mine.

Whatever you post on your personal,
just repost on your company page.

Uh, like when I do live streams,
I will post separate on both.

Um, so yeah, it, you know,
eventually, you know, you'll get

those followers, you'll get it.

The benefit to too is somebody
follows your company page and

they're connected to you personally.

When you make a post like that,
they'll actually see it twice.

So that is a benefit.

You, you

Pete Matheson: what if you
were to, can you not share your

post through the company page?

Then they'll only see
it once at that stage.

Andrew Moon: sometimes
it depends on what it is.

Like when I post my live
streams, it's a separate post.

It's, it's a single post
on my, uh, personal page.

And then I'll also make a separate
one, uh, through the company page.

Like we set up one for this.

Just cuz once people can tag my show
or they can tag my company, you have

a a company page that allows that.

So, but yeah,

Pete Matheson: Also,

Andrew Moon: 22, you know, it's, you
gotta have it, but when you're starting

Pete Matheson: me if I'm wrong,
I'm also suggesting don't go and

just invite all of your LinkedIn
contacts to your company page.

That really annoys me.

Andrew Moon: Exactly.

Yeah.

And again, depending on what type
of LinkedIn profile you have, um, or

account you have, I think the new sales
navigator allows you to invite up to 250

people now instead of just a hundred.

But yeah, again, that's one of those
things that I have a task created in

click up to go do that every few weeks
just, and I, again, I don't just select

all go through and look to the people
you've interacted with, you've had

conversations with, then invite them
to your, you know, to like your page.

Um, but yeah, you gotta get
that, that personal connection

to start building an audience.

So, but no, that's a
great question, Carlos.

Scott Riley: I, I dunno what's

Robert Gibbons: and.

Scott Riley: on with, uh,
LinkedIn at the minute either.

So Carlos, if you, if you're struggling
to get traction and views, we're,

we're all, I think seeing the same
thing is, you know, we're putting

out posts that we think have got
valuable content or, you know,

invites to events that we're running.

We're running a LinkedIn live event
next week, um, and it's been pushed

out to like 300 people and we've
continually tried to re-push that, that

article so that we can try and get some
people to sign up to a LinkedIn live

event that's happening on LinkedIn.

And there just, there's
no exposure to anybody.

Um, yesterday and, and the day
before, um, Kaylee and our team

actually went around and manually.

Um, 200 people that were interested
in the previous live stream because

they hadn't even seen the post.

Uh, and literally in the, just doing
that one process, we've doubled the

amount of people that are coming to
the live stream next week, cuz LinkedIn

just isn't pushing the content out.

Compare that with, we put a
post out that said, what's

your favorite pancake topping?

And we were swamped with thousands of
impressions and comments and clicks and

you're just click really, really LinkedIn.

I'm trying to get someone to
a livestream on your platform.

No traction.

I ask about pancakes.

Woo.

Every, everyone sees it.

It's just nuts.

So I don't give up Carlos.

It, it is a, it's a, a really slow
process to build that consistency is key.

I think that's, that's all the key things
that we would say as well is you have to

keep, you know, putting stuff out there
and it, God, don't do the boring stuff.

Right.

Don't, don't be going, Hey, 99%
of cyber attacks could have been

prevented if you turned on multifactor.

Think nobody cares.

They, they just don't care.

I know we, I've had that feedback before.

So people do care.

They really don't, um, put stuff out
about you, about your people, about

your business, and that's what's gonna
make it really attractive and have

people want to work with you, show
some of you, show some of the business.

Um, some of the best posts we've had
and, and best relationships we've

built is because they've seen just a
little bit of the inside of what it's

like to work here at Cloud Nexus.

And some of the stupid videos that
we've done just kind of show more

of that personality and that's,
that's what's kind of, you know,

encourage people to work with us.

Robert Gibbons: I was gonna say,
I've watched some of those videos

and I actually question, do you
actually do any work at Cloud Nexus?

Andrew Moon: Now it, it is,
you know, going back to the

Pete Matheson: the magic about
marketing though, isn't it?

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

You know, to Pete, you can
attest to that on the YouTube

side, algorithms are algorithms.

They screw with things without warning.

Uh, that LinkedIn changed something in the
algorithm, them litter three weeks ago.

Uh, cuz we saw our engagement from the
first part of January to the second

half of January, end of February,
drop almost completely in half.

Again, it's nothing that we're doing
or not doing again, it's just one

of those things, you gotta kind
of, you just gotta stay consistent.

Um, you know, there,
there aren't any hacks.

As soon as you find the hack
for it, they'll change it.

Um, but yeah, that's why
I think just consistently.

Showing up as a person, putting that
personality like Scott mentioned in there.

And by all means, don't sell, don't,
don't pitch, slap people on like,

Robert Gibbons: I was gonna come to that.

The, uh, the, the 80 20 rule is, you
know, you look at the posts that I do, I

think I try and do 80% of fun, 20%, uh,
around kind of work, not the cybersecurity

stats side, but just make it engaging
and, and people want to engage with

people, uh, and see that side of things.

Like Scott was saying, he, you know,
pancakes, I mean, who thought that

would be the hot topic compared
to I've actually got a really

good opportunity for business.

Um, and it just doesn't happen.

But yeah, you know, you look at, as
I said, my last kind of dozen posts.

I don't think one of them's about work.

Andrew Moon: yeah.

And that's, you know, there's, there's
still that misnomer with LinkedIn that

you can't post personal things on.

you can, I mean, one of the
things that they're rewarding

right now is the selfies.

So have you guys noticed the
increase in people doing selfies?

Pete Matheson: Oh.

Andrew Moon: they're, they're
testing that with the algorithm, so

I've, you know, I've seen more, uh,
again, they're, they're constantly

testing, so don't, don't give up.

Robert Gibbons: actually I was told
off last night, so selfies I don't do,

but I was told off last night cuz I
didn't have my white trainers on and

I couldn't take a photo of my feet
because that seems to be my regular is

I take photos of my shoes and post it
cuz everyone else is doing selfies just.

Andrew Moon: I, exactly.

Yep.

Pete Matheson: mean, I mean this is, um,
this is the whole thing about LinkedIn and

most other social platforms like, um, I
see it all the time when people like, oh,

I gotta, people moaning about the things
they're seeing on their LinkedIn feed.

It's like, The reason you're seeing
it on your LinkedIn feed is cuz you're

engaging with it and you're watching
it and you are like interacting.

If you just scroll past it,
you wouldn't see it anymore.

That, that's like the whole fundamental
thing with any social networking platform.

The more time you spend watching
that particular type of content,

the more it's gonna feed you.

Like spend two minutes on TikTok and
it learns very, very quickly what

kind of person you are and what stuff
it's gonna feed you to keep you in

their app for like the next hour.

It's very, very simple.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

That's, you know, yeah.

It's, uh, when I went to, uh, uh,
people of video back in September

that they said that, that's it.

P um, Tom, Tim Schmoyer,
who's now with Video iq, he

said, that's, that's the hack.

Create content for
people, not the algorithm.

He said, so if you wanna know that,
you know, the hack of any social

platform, that's how you do it.

Create content that people want to see,
and we'll keep 'em on the platform.

So,

Robert Gibbons: And

Andrew Moon: Uh, we got a question here.

Uh, Zara says, hi guys.

One question we have is how you guys
managed to find relevant sources

when you were smaller as a company?

We looked at an external source to
help, but they wanted nine k a month.

Uh,

Pete Matheson: I'm assuming the external
marketing agency, when it's kind of

Andrew Moon: yeah, that
would be my guess too.

Pete Matheson: I mean, I, I'm a big
believer on just doing it yourself because

unless you are a big company with a lot
of money, you can spend a lot of money

and not see much return very quickly.

Um, you know, you have to be, if you're
spending nine k, you probably have to

spend that nine k for about a year to see
any form of kind of anything coming back.

So hiring someone internally
to take care of your marketing.

And, um, honestly, my experience has been,
it's been different for everybody else.

Um, you can be complete polar opposites.

Some people can think one
particular source of traffic.

Obviously for me, I'm very big on video
cuz that worked very, very well for me.

But someone else could be, no,
I'm on, I'm, I'm a paid kind of

ads paper click kind of person,
or I'm a networking person.

You just need to test things
and find what works for you.

Um, the, the simplest way to put it
that I've kind of found works for most

people, and it helps 'em find eventually
is just focus on one every single month.

So start with a clean slate, right?

We're in February, so, or
maybe, let's call it March.

So the 1st of March, you work on one
particular like marketing pillar.

So that's gonna be, maybe, that might
be your social media, your email, or

your video, whatever it's gonna be.

Pick the one and just spend
the month trying to hone that.

And then on month two, you kind of
maintain that and keep it going.

And then you pick something new
and then add that into the mix

and keep doing that until you get
to say month five or month six.

And then you kind of assess and
go, okay, well what's not working?

What's, you know, what's definitely
not working well, let's scrap that.

Now let's try something new.

Um, I always do think videos like, I mean,
I'm video, like I always think video's

worth doing cuz it's had such a big
impact for me and I see it consistently

having a big impact that most people
won't do it because it's too scary and

difficult and yeah, co complicated things.

It's not.

Um, but I also think too, Andrew's
comment, I think from like, literally

like last year was the, the lead
gen collateral, like a downloadable

template, a pdf, a guide, like something
that's, and I'm not saying like here's

the how to choose a good IT support
company when you want the end of it.

Um, but it's like genuinely like,
download this because it will save you

money or make you more an efficient
business or help you with a problem

that you've got because that's the
thing that will actually get them.

You know, type in their
details and download things.

Um, and like Andrew says, like,
I think I, I did one last year

when we had that discussion.

I still get, um, new leads
every single, almost every week.

Um, but definitely every single
month with people downloading

those kind of templates.

Um, so that's probably where I'd go to,
to start off with, but definitely shift

your focus away from the, you know,
the free cyber reviews, free security,

it review, those kind of things.

They don't really sell much
because people know they're gonna

buy it, support at the end of it.

Think of something that's actually
gonna be valuable to them.

Um, but you're almost, you
know, giving stuff away.

And it doesn't have to be complicated.

Here's a 10 step checklist to do X, Y, Z.

Now you can do that in Canva.

Spend half an hour doing that, and that's
something that can live on your website

for the next year and bring you leads.

Uh, so you just spend some time
thinking about the actual content.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

Anything that you've guys have seen?

I know we talked last time, we talked
about just, you know, the lead magnets

and just something of interest.

Um, you know, we kind
of brainstormed that.

Anything that you guys are seeing,
uh, particularly for you like Scott

and Robert, uh, in the MSP space
that is people are interested in or

what, what is a problem that they're
facing right now as a business owner?

Uh, when it comes to
tech or just anything in.

Robert Gibbons: Scott over to you.

Scott Riley: Yeah.

Yeah.

I was gonna say, uh, firstly I just
wanted to, to bring up a point for,

um, I think it was Zara, was it, I,
I don't have the name in the chat.

Um, but we, we, we spent I think
40, 45,000 pounds on external agents

over a period, uh, you know, in
one of our first couple of years.

Um, because you always get hooked into
that thing thinking, well, look, it's

a, it's a lot of money, but these guys
really know what they're doing and

they're promising leads and they, they,
they, they're, they have a track record

and, and so, Yeah, it's an investment.

But if one of those turns into a, a
deal and an opportunity, then hey, you

know, we can, we can make this back.

And what if we get two opportunities?

And so that, that big ticket
number kind of almost convinces you

that it's the right thing to do.

Um, and genuinely in our experience,
we, we spent like, say over 45,000.

We, we got zero return on any of that.

Um, not any, not any of it turned into
a lead, so it's just money thrown away.

And that was a hard lesson to learn.

You know, I, I, I like to
think I'm a clever person.

I like to think I make good judgements,
but you look at something like

that and just go, oof, that's, uh,
that's an expensive lesson to learn.

Um, what we, one of our biggest
challenges with the outsourced people

and, and they're not all the same.

Your mileage may vary, but not one of the
people that we worked with and we tried.

Different ones at different times.

Everybody got a three month or a
six month run, and we would see how

they perform, but none of them could
represent our brand, our values, our

tone of voice, the way that we could.

They just, you know, they had
some content, they had some

ways of putting things out.

Some of them were really slimy
and horrible salesy articles.

Some of them were just really dry
and boring and, and repetitive.

None of it felt like us.

And so the biggest step that we made,
and, and this is a UK thing, so you

know, we're lucky here in the UK
that we can hire apprenticeships at,

at a really low sort of salary cost
for that first, you know, 18 months.

Um, but we get to bring in talent
that we can grow internally.

And yes, it's a distraction
from what you're doing day to.

At the start, and you might think, oh,
I don't have three months or six months

to bring an apprentice up to speed.

It doesn't take that long.

We, we, we to, we're flying within
six weeks of, you know, producing

content that looked and sounded like
us having a roadmap for social media,

for all the different channels, having
fresh ideas for new opportunities,

like on things like TikTok, having
YouTube videos put together.

And so we started on that, that
journey really, really quickly

thinking, oh, I, I think it's gonna
take all of my time to invest what we

do into a digital marketing person.

They took no time at all.

And the, and the return on
that has been phenomenal.

So.

Again, to echo Pete's point, if you're
not in the UK and you don't have a,

an apprenticeship scheme perhaps in in
the country where you are, um, I would

still genuinely look at bringing in a
resource or even maybe starting with a va.

You know, an external, uh, VA agency
can do some marketing items for you.

They tend to be, need a bit more
structure and a lot more process

around what it is you want them to do.

But it can be low cost.

But I wouldn't be paying nine K a month.

Get someone who's in your team and on your
side that can really get your culture.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Pete Matheson: also, just to help briefly
with the, um, like the content thing.

Cause that's obviously like I don't have
enough time to put something together.

Um, the, the kind of time saving
thing that I always go with.

So sticking with the, you know, one
thing a month, but just maybe you have

your focus on once a month or once
a week or something on a particular,

Product or service or thing in the
news or whatever it's gonna be, but

just kind of dissects that information
through all your various media.

So if you're putting a video out, you
know, if you wanna start with a video,

then put that out through a blog post,
put that out through audio, through your

social media channels, just all your ma
kind of marketing things that week or that

month should be saying the same message.

Um, and always kind of, um, relates it to
the fact of when I go down and sit with

a, with a client and I'm speaking to them.

I wanna, hopefully they've heard or
seen or read the message somewhere

so I don't have to then explain to
them and say, oh, hey, this will be

a great bit of technology for you.

Um, there were still a few
frustrating situations and they're

like, oh, hey, have you tried this?

Oh, we, no, we haven't.

You should have told us about the sooner.

And we're like, we did in like,
literally everything we've sent to you.

You're like, emails and
letters and like, everything.

You've still ignored it, but
nowhere sat here speaking to you

and now we're telling you about it.

So my goal was to get them that
information before I sat down

and physically spoke to them.

So I think, yeah, just try and focus
amongst your other various bits of

marketing you're doing, but with the
same message, uh, makes, makes your

marketing a lot easier rather than
having to post something on social over

here whilst writing a different blog
post, whilst making a different video.

It gets too complicated.

Andrew Moon: So what do you think, Robert,
do you think has helped, helped you?

He's, he, did he a mic dropped
and get, where do you go from

Robert Gibbons: No, no, no.

Uh, I, I've listened to everything, uh,
that you guys have said, Scott and Pete.

Absolutely.

Words of wisdom there.

Um, you know, don't discount
outsourcing it, get somebody

into help like a VA or something.

But if you are marketing, because you are
looking to grow the business, spend some

of that budget, budget on networking.

So find a local networking
organization and go and meet them.

Go and actually get out there
and don't sit behind social media

just posting every other hour
hoping that somebody's gonna buy.

So that's what I'd also
spend some of my budget.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I, I look at that,
you know, a nine grand.

Uh, you, if you've watched this
show, you guys know I talk about

lunch and learns like a lot.

Um, we're back in person and in-person.

Events are back.

We're back.

And like Robert said, networking.

And it's not a better way to
network than to create your own.

I'm much, you're playing, you've got
home field advantage at that point.

When I create my own event,
I'm more comfortable with

that and I can invite people.

Um, and you just think about, I
think about what you can do for,

uh, e even simply a thousand bucks.

If you were to take a thousand
bucks, what kind of event could

you put on that is all about you.

It's your, it's your
show, it's your rodeo.

And, you know, I did not, you know, we
did that every quarter because I found

that that is the, it was the easiest
way to put a bunch of prospects in a

room at the same time and be able to
educate them, which ultimately l led to

sales every single time, every single.

Pete Matheson: I, I think that's
a really good approach cuz my.

My, my default thought and answer to
networking, like general networking

where you walk into a room full
of totally different people that

you've been invited to rather than
you're inviting people to yours.

Um, it is, I'd rather spend my time
making a video because then more people

who want to see my video will, will
watch the video rather than a room full

of maybe 10 or 15 people I might get to
speak to that might not be interested.

Uh, but yeah, that's a very good point.

If you're putting on your own events
and inviting probably a mixture of

clients and prospects to those events
together, um, that that's ideal.

That that's a, yeah.

Very good idea.

Andrew Moon: I mean, again, you know

Robert Gibbons: better.

Andrew Moon: You go ahead.

Was

Robert Gibbons: I was just say, yeah,
if you, if you're doing your own events

and you know, inviting customers or
some, say two customers and four or

five prospect, much better way to
spend 9,000 pound a month or $9,000.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, I mean,
just think about what type

of an event you could put on.

I mean, heck, you could rent
a movie theater and put on

just, you know what I mean?

You could cater to the whole

Pete Matheson: Riding on my golden horses
and all sorts for nine grand a month.

Andrew Moon: but you know,
that's the thing though.

I guarantee if anything you are going
to get something out of it, if at all.

People will never forget that event.

, you know what I mean?

If you're gonna drop nine
grand, um, I never spent more.

I think the, the most expensive
event we put on was like 700 bucks.

And that was, you know, we
brought in lunch and it's the

only reason it cost us that much.

We did a couple giveaways.

We tested doing some giveaways.

Um, but go ahead.

Pete's got a thing

Pete Matheson: don't forget MDF funding.

So I'm just thinking if you are
spending money on events, speak

to your vendors cuz they'll give
you money for the events as well.

Andrew Moon: They'll give you stuff.

Uh, Sofos was one of our sponsors, so
they gave us t-shirts, they gave me

these little cybersecurity booklets.

You'll be surprised what they
have that they'll send you.

You know, I connected with the
Soos rep up in Boston and I said,

Hey, I'm putting on an event.

Is there anything you can do, you
know, anything you could send us to

put in the little gift bags for people?

I got a box, a whole box of these
little cool books, like comic

books about cybersecurity, uh, got
t-shirts, stickers, the whole thing.

Did the exact same thing with Microsoft.

Microsoft.

We got free office and
Windows licenses to give away.

Didn't cause me a

Pete Matheson: Who's, um, I, I dunno
if you guys, Robert and Scott have any,

um, do you know who's good at, I don't
wanna say like, good at giving you money

nowadays, but I, I know data used to be
very good and they were very open to, to,

you know, helping you with those things.

I dunno if they're the same
since the CAEA buyouts.

Um, Microsoft used to be good.

I'm not

Robert Gibbons: I, I dunno.

Um, we're not Dato or ca partners.

Um, but, uh, certainly the vendors
that we do work with, um, yeah.

A, a couple of them have deep pockets
and we are exploring those pockets.

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

Uh, speak to distributors as well, cause
distributors can access the vendors.

Um, that might be worth
a worth, a worth a shout.

Andrew Moon: yeah, exactly.

And, and connect with, you know,
like Microsoft had an office in

Columbus, so that's what I did.

I connected with the people that I,
that I, you know, on LinkedIn I found

out, okay, who works in that office?

So I connected with them and I'm
like, okay, let, I invite 'em to

coffee and just tell 'em, Hey,
this is what I'm looking to.

They'll get you connected with the
people that if it, even if it's not

them, that's exactly how I got, you
know, two or three office licenses and

Windows licenses to give away for free.

He's like, yeah, we'll
get you anything you want.

Didn't have to go through mdf, didn't
have to go through any type of uh,

you know, super in-depth process.

He's just like, here, you know,
send 'em over, you know, so

Robert Gibbons: Yeah, we, we were.

We're working out with two vendors,
um, really, really well at the moment.

One of them's, uh, a disk
up in North Yorkshire.

Um, and the other one is, uh, our partners
at Terra, um, you know, who obviously

invest quite a bit of money in us,
um, but we do sell a lot of their kit.

So yeah, if you don't go and
ask, you are missing out.

That's the, that's the thing, isn't it?

Just go and.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, you will hear me
beat that drum over and over again.

Uh, you know about using LinkedIn
to get people to show up.

Um, Craig Allen said it's great to
hear an MSP actually understanding the

value of LinkedIn for business growth.

Few do and yes, personal profile
first, but you must ensure

both are fully optimized.

Pages are definitely
brought that back up there.

See, I can't read fast enough.

Pages are definitely getting
more support from LinkedIn today

though, so watch this space.

Yeah, so newsletters, again, that's just
that the testing of the algorithm, but

that's, that's how I came upon LinkedIn
as the strategy for me was for lunch and

learns that, you know, I was doing a lunch
and learn event, we're two weeks out and

I only had like seven people registered.

So I'm like, okay, one on LinkedIn.

It was a Wednesday night.

and in, you know, direct messaged 150
people that I was connected to on LinkedIn

and then did a personal v i p invitation.

Next thing I know, and I just logged out.

One home came in the next morning I
had 25 people registered and an inbox

full of messages from people who said,
thanks, but you know, I can't come to

this one, but invite me to the next one.

Guess what?

You guess what I have for the next event.

I now have a list of people who know
who I am, who are interested in that,

and that's how, you know, he starts
small and just kept growing from there.

Um, but to me that's when it dawned on me.

Okay.

That works.

How many marketing things
have you guys done?

You know, you sent an email blast.

Do you have 40, 50
people reply back to you?

I mean, it's, most of the time it's
crickets, but you know, I had 40

or 50 people to reply back to, and
it was generally the same thing.

thanks so much for thinking of me.

I can't come to this one.

Invite me to the next one
and then have them bring a

Robert Gibbons: my other thing.

Yeah, my other thing.

If you're gonna do lunch and
learns, start with a small audience.

Start with wanting, you know, six or.

Maybe.

And when that's full, those
six, I advertise it as sold out.

And then when you get the next one,
people are more likely to say, oh,

I want go because I'm sold out.

Don't try and start with 20, 30 or 40
people where you , start small and build

up that fact that people want to turn up.

Andrew Moon: And again, you
know, it, it it, by the end of

it, it was, I wasn't doing the
whole whole presentations either.

We got our, we got our customers involved.

I had attorneys as clients.

I'm like, there's great content that an
attorney can bring to a lunch and learn.

And it, he did, uh, we had an attorney
speak about, Bring your own device.

You know, I did the text,
text side of things.

Here's how you do it.

Here's why you do it.

Here's some things to think about.

And then the last hour was case law.

Case law of what can happen to
a business owner by allowing

them to bring their own device.

So anyway, so there's, I could
go on for days about that.

So think about, you
know, there's two ways.

If I would've had a thousand dollars
to spend, and I'm an MSP right now,

those are the two places I would
invest in, would be either lunch

and learns, either in person or like
pizza video, doing things like this.

And I, I, I, I beg MSPs to steal
this format of what we're doing

right now, steal this format
right now of doing a live q and a

because, and don't worry about where
you're gonna get the content from.

Just open up your PSA tool and
answer the questions that come

into your ticketing system.

But do a live q and a where
you can build rapport.

Prospects can actually see if a prospect
jumps on here, I now am building no like

and trust without selling you anything.

I'm answering questions and proving
that I know what I'm doing and

I'm building that rapport and I
have begged I my coaching clients.

Those are two things that
I recommend that they do.

You gotta build your own buzz, whether
that's an in-person or an online event.

Do video and steal this format.

Steal this format of doing a q
and a, even if it's once a month.

Scott Riley: I, I can
attest to this as well.

I, I literally had a call drop in through
Calendly, uh, for a call today that I had,

uh, about an hour ago, uh, with a brand
new organization that wants to work with

us because they'd watch this show and
just go, I, I, I think I like you guys.

I think I, I like what you've said.

I like how you talk.

I think we could work
really well together.

Can we, you know, explore
a couple of projects?

And I'm like, yeah, cool.

Let's, let's do it.

And in fact, the, the, the first part
of the call was, oh, I didn't think

we'd have to get to speak to you.

Um, I've heard you on the podcast.

You're like, yeah, that's,
but this just works.

We're not here to sell anything
or do anything, but it does get

people the opportunity to see
who you are and hear from you.

Um, and I just wanted to touch on,
you know, we mentioned the consistency

part for Carlos earlier and.

In the comments and, and one of
the people who's asked a question

is Craig Allen, the Black Knight,
and we popped up his thing earlier.

Now, uh, so far as I know Craig, we've
never met, um, but I know who you are.

I've seen your content consistently.

As soon as your name popped
up in the chat, I was like,

oh, he's kind of linked in.

Famous.

That's cool.

There he is.

Um, but like Eve, I know Craig because
he posts so well and so consistently and

so interestingly, and also he's also got
like the Black Knight thing after his.

What's that all about?

And then you see, and then he's
got the chess piece with the

Black Knight on his materials.

Okay.

But he's just got something
interesting and different about

the, the content that he puts out.

And he does it so consistently that I,
I like to, I literally kind of did a

fanboy moment and went, oh look, it's,
it's Craig Owen, the Black Knight.

Um, and so that's just testament
to that consistency, um,

that we were talking about.

Carlos, if you, you have to start
small and you have to keep, you

know, repeating and going for it,
but over time you just become known

and you build up so many connections
that you are well known to people.

And that consistency
helps with top of mind.

You're not always gonna hit people
at the time they need your services,

but if you stay consistent, you stay
top of mind when they do have that

need or they do have that thought.

Who's that?

Who's that guy I see all the time?

Yeah, the, the, the, the Black Knight.

I Need The Black Knight.

And then they'll go and find
you and, and book in a call.

Um, yes.

Hi.

He's, he's, he's waving.

Hi.

Hey Greg.

Andrew Moon: So we gotta get him
the voice, you know, the black nine.

You need to have a voice changer
for your podcast, man, And again,

it's just that entertainment factor.

I mean, you touched on it,
um, having something in your

profile that builds curiosity.

I mean, it, it is just that,
that's, that's another thing

I picked up at People video.

Um, Pete was build, you have to
have something to build curiosity.

You know, even in mundane topics
like cybersecurity, if you can have

something that builds curiosity, where
I want to click through that content

that allows people to get to know you.

And I think it's, it's, like I said,
it's very underutilized in the tech

industry, especially in the MSP space.

Um, and again, it doesn't have to be.

Super high quality production
when you're starting.

Um, and I think that's
the fear that people have.

You know, a Robert, you've
got a laptop in front of you.

Like it is so simple.

The, the quality of the quality of video
through, you know, webcams and your

phone, you can get started doing this.

Uh, it's not super complicated.

Pete Matheson: Okay.

Andrew Moon: let me go, go

Scott Riley: shout out to Tim,
who's, who's on the chat as well.

Oh, sorry, go on.

I was gonna say, uh, Tim
Kidney's on the chat as well.

He was, he's listening in
whilst he's busy making dinner.

Um, but yeah, you know, Tim responded to
one of our challenges of Just Do It, uh,

and went out there and, and made a video.

He said it took him two days.

It was two days I think, to
work up the courage to do it.

But he did it and he put it out there.

And again, the response back
was lovely just to get to

see him and his personality.

And you could see in the comments
people were like, yes, Tim, go for it.

And it's just, again, such an easy
way I think, I dunno if he used his

phone to do that, but it's so simple.

Um, and I, I know we bang on about
video a lot, but again, I think for

each of us, it's been transformational
in different ways for how we've, you

know, we've got to work with people.

Andrew Moon: And the thing of the
video, like I said, it, it's, you

can repurpose it in so many ways.

Like when we're done here, the
audio is automatically, you know,

built using the app that e e cam.

All I literally do is take the MP3
files, dump 'em into Descript podcast

is done, send that a transistor.

So from one effort, one hour of
effort, we at least make two at

minimum two pieces of content.

And if you're doing your q, if
you're doing just a simple q and a

like this, even if it's yourself,
each one of those questions and

answers can be a short video.

you gonna have an admin,
we talked about that.

Get a virtual admin, you know, a, a
video editor to slice those questions

into, you know, 62nd reels for TikTok
or shorts or, you know, Instagram.

So if you have an hour long q and
a session, how you know, and you

answer 60 questions, that's 60 pieces
of micro content that you now have

for one hour's worth of effort.

So again, it's just maximizing that.

Uh, cuz yeah, p Tim Kidney said that too.

He missed the first 25 minutes he sees.

I seem to, he have a stressful,
stressfully fragmented marketing plan

that keeps evolving and changing.

I learned something new about
what to do for my marketing.

This is proving challenging when
trying to work in the business.

Also, how do you devise a firm plan
that you can stick to At times I feel

I'm going, going around in circles,
especially when it's something new.

I'm not sure how to implement.

I think Pete's co, Pete's
wise council there.

Start with one thing

Scott Riley: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: it's video for you, Tim.

Yeah.

If it's video, just get good at that.

Spend 30 days doing that.

If it's LinkedIn, same thing.

Just spend 30 days getting that
nailed down and then next month work

on something different, add to it.

But trying to do everything at once.

Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna
have that, you know, dog chasing its

tail, uh, that's gonna wear you out.

Pete Matheson: Well, one of those things
that I'd add into the, I didn't didn't

touch on it earlier, but I know a few
of my clients don't have it, which is a,

was a surprise to me, was a CR RM system.

Well, okay.

An organized CRM system, it's where
you've got kind of all your clients

with the right groups, membership and
tags, and prospect with the right tags.

So when you wanna do a, a mail shot or
you want even what you wanna send a bit

of communication out to your clients
to be able to jump into your CRM system

and just be able to send it to the
right people with the right subset of

people, um, that, that's a massive thing.

And, and that, that's basically helpful
for prospecting as well, because if

you can group them all and tag 'em
all correctly, then your prospecting

will, um, will massively improve CF
for, for, that's like one month focus

on like your crm, your email system,
your email marketing, and that's,

that's all kind of part of the same.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, and it, and I know

Scott Riley: would also say, um, oh, cool.

I was gonna say also do batches.

Do batches of work.

Because when you get yourself into that
mindset, or if you're doing video, you

get yourself in front of the camera.

The, the whole effort to get that all
set up and get it done and get it ready.

You should then produce, you know,
a number of pieces of content.

You're not gonna throw it all out at
once, but you are there and you're in

the mindset, and you're in the zone and
you've got comfortable with the camera.

Again, just go, just plan maybe four or
five pieces of content that you're gonna

drip feed over the next couple of weeks,
you know, maybe every couple of days.

But do it in batch is trying to do
your social media strategy daily is a

perfect way to fail because you'll just
be sat there and go, oh crap, I haven't

got anything out on LinkedIn today.

Here's, here's a selfie.

And, and, but there's no value
that came out of that unless

you're testing the algorithm.

Like we all, we've all done.

But if you plan that in advance,
sit down, batch, you know, you

can even, we've done an exercise
before where we've gone, right?

Here's 30 LinkedIn posts
that we're gonna do.

Um, and we might use them all next
month, but if something more interesting

comes along, we'll swap one out.

And we'll just like, what,
what's like, what's a good hook?

What's an image that could go with it?

What do we wanna let people know?

And, and those are sort of the
generic bits of content that

we just have as a fallback.

But then whenever we see something
interesting or something fresh or

some news, we'll just put a comment.

But just something jump in, you know,
with a, you know, with a comment on

something that's happening, but getting
that as a fallback will really help.

So having fallback content, batching
things up, really makes your life

easier, uh, as well as, as we've
all said, getting someone else to

do it , so it isn't just all on you.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

I've had a couple questions
on the lunch and learn side.

Westway.

It said, how would you promote
a lunch and learn when?

As Scott said, you can hardly promote
a LinkedIn live without going manual.

Scott Riley: I, I think
it has to be manual.

I think your your point
exactly, Andrew, you said about

contacting the people separately.

Um, again, I didn't do it.

Kaylee did it and we, we contacted
200 people who all sort of came to

the last LinkedIn Live that we did and
said, Hey, you know, it looked like

you, hey, name, but we, she was smart
enough to change the name every time.

Um, hey, you know, we saw that you
came to the last LinkedIn live event.

Just to let you know
we're doing another one.

Really sorry to contact you directly,
but to be honest, the algorithm's

a bit, a bit nonsense lately.

Anyway, here's the link.

Would love you to come along.

and the response has been fantastic.

People looking at it going,
it's a personalized message.

Thanks for inviting me.

I'm, I'm genuinely interested to come.

Um, or they've said, oh,
I can't make it wrong.

Time zone.

Like, don't worry.

And, and we've made sure to follow
up and reply to every single person.

Yet the time zone can be a nightmare.

You're in Australia, I can see,
um, why don't you catch us on

YouTube or LinkedIn afterwards.

If you sign up, you'll get a link and
you can watch the video back afterwards.

Um, so that's been really helpful.

But I think it's John,
isn't it, at Westway?

I think for those things we've really
learned, don't just rely on putting

posts out and hoping that people will
sign up for LinkedIn live events.

I think especially for your lunch
and learns as well, as Robert

said, you probably wanna be really
tactical about who you're inviting.

Keep the, the.

Keep the guest list
short, make it valuable.

Maybe it's six or eight people.

Um, but go and, and manually contact them.

I think that that is a really great
way to do social is, is is kind of

a broad brush, shotgun approach.

Isn, if we wanna get a message
out on everyone to see it.

But a luncheon learn or a LinkedIn
live is, is more tactical.

We want to invite the right
kind of people to those things.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, cuz you can
create the event using the events

feature on LinkedIn, even if it
is an in-person lunch and learn.

And you can have you, you can
actually have a registration page.

If you require a registration page.

Let's offer your website.

so you can have that native event
in, you know, LinkedIn, but like

you said, Scott, you can actually
go in and invite people to that

event with, from your LinkedIn list.

Um, and I actually keep a list.

Robert, you're on a list, you're on
the top of the list of people who

have watched my LinkedIn live show.

So I know people that have
interacted with it and it's,

you know, it's the same thing.

Have a list in sales navigator of people
that interact with your events, whether

that's a Lunch and learn, or if you do
this type of format, you know, have your

own q and a show or just a regular show.

Have a list of people where you
have that in sales navigator and

make sure that if you're doing
something special, you know that you

have the ability to see that list.

Uh, so I think it is very much
manual, but it is, if you, like

Robert said, if you keep that, that
list small, it's very manageable.

It's extremely

Robert Gibbons: Yeah, if, if you
are, if you are doing lunch and learn

for eight people, you're gonna go
out and advertise it to 20 people.

So it's not that difficult
to send 20 direct emails.

And okay, you get three response,
then you send it to another 10, then

another 10, and before you know it,
your eight people are booked in.

Keep it small to start with.

Pete Matheson: It comes back to the,
um, like the dream list clients.

You, you don't wanna necessarily
broadcast it for everybody cuz you

wanna pick the ones that you know
you're gonna be a great fit for.

See, I'd rather pick the, the five,
six, or seven people to invite rather

than send it to a 200 and just hope
that we're gonna fill the room.

Even though they might not be
the right, they might not be

ready to buy for any reason.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

So E Eric had a good question.

Again, lunch and learn.

Where do you recommend
having a lunch and learn?

Would you, would I look at renting a hotel
conference room or something like that?

Uh, shoot with what you have.

I, I locked out in, um, the
space where I was renting office

space on the fir on the first.

Had two giant conference rooms that I had
access to cuz I paid rent there, so it

didn't cost me a penny to have the room.

All it cost me was the
money to feed people.

Uh, so

Pete Matheson: I always think if,

Andrew Moon: co-working
spaces is another one.

Robert Gibbons: if, if you are not lucky
enough to have the conference, like a

room like Andrew had, one of the key fact
factors to look at if people having to

drive there, look at parking, cuz if they
can't get parked, they'll drive away.

So make it.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

But yeah, look for co-working.

Uh, a lot of the co-working
places have conference rooms.

Uh, and again, hotel conference
rooms probably gonna be

the most expensive for you.

Uh, but yeah, start small,
even if it's a coffee shop.

I've done that before.

A locally owned coffee shop that
had a large back room where like,

Hey, I'm, I would like to do
kind of a small, you know, event.

Can I rent that back room?

And they're like,

Robert Gibbons: Yeah, if you're
doing a lunch and learn, think

about bed and breakfasts.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Robert Gibbons: Yeah.

Doing lunch and think about a bed
and breakfast because by the time

people have had breakfast and
gone, that breakfast room is not

being used for the rest of the day.

So go and hire A, B and b

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

You had one more to add in there.

did you have

Pete Matheson: I was, I was gonna say,
um, if, if you have the space, I would

always do it in my own offices because
I'd rather have the prospects, sorry,

I don't wanna call 'em prospects, but
the, the friends you're gonna invite

into your, into your world, um, bring
them into your office to meet you,

meet your staff, see your offices.

Just kind of show them that
you are a proper business.

Cuz there are a lot of it businesses
and you know, people out there that

are working from the back of a shed
and lots of kind of, I don't, don't

call 'em unprofessional cuz lots of
growing businesses, obviously . But

um, yeah, if you can bring them
in because you can then, like it

gives you a chance to do that.

The, the magic moments of
like, okay, remember how they

take their teas or coffee.

Or even ask them when, when you are
kind of invited them, what, what's your

favorite cake or your favorite drink?

Or, you know, anything like that.

Because you can note those down.

And if you ever speak to them again, if
they ever come in for a meeting again, you

can have like the tea or the coffee the
way they like it already waiting for them.

You can have a favorite slice
of cake waiting for them.

If you have a need to apologize, you can
post them a slice of their favorite cake.

You know, all these kind of things you
can do just to kind of go that little bit

extra that most people won't bother with.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Huge impact.

Um, and pet pets is the same thing.

I found that if you can find out, you
know, what the pet's name is, like,

there's, there's just so many things
I found out like, um, three weeks ago.

Yeah.

There you go.

Pete Matheson: Scott, I have, I've
forgotten to say thank you for, but, but

things like this, like sending out a 10
pound, um, gif voucher thing for when I

don't really feel like I've done anything
to deserve it, but thank you very much.

But things like that you can send out
to people, um, as like a thank you

for coming along and yeah, it makes
a big difference even though I've

not said a single word until now.

Andrew Moon: If you were to do a marketing
campaign, again, if I go back to that,

if I have a thousand dollars to spend
on marketing, that's what I would do.

I mean, I did a live stream three
weeks ago, and I think we had

six people that I talked about.

My dog and I had six people talking
about dogs in the live stream,

but I found out what type of dog
they have, what the dog's name is.

Guess what I now have the ability to do.

I take that personal step in
sending them dog treats, you

know, with the dog's name on it.

You know, it just, it is those little
things that we think have to be

complicated and, and they're really not.

Um, yeah, there's, there's just
so many things you could do.

With marketing these days, but that
is outside the norm and will work.

So if you guys want to chime in
there, I'm gonna make sure we didn't

miss any other, uh, questions too.

Pete Matheson: I think it is genuinely
that it's, um, you know, the gift box is

like Scott's doing a smashing job with all
of the things you're doing there, mate.

Like the, the, the gift boxes you send
out the welcome boxes are incredible.

I've still got my water bottle,
I've still got the little cloud.

I think he's stuck to my
daughter's bedroom door.

Yep.

They still work . So just, it's stuff
like that, that, that stays and that's

the thing that, you know, I think it
was, um, was it data that was doing

some sessions throughout Covid where
they'd literally pay for your pizza.

They, they'd send you a, like a 10,
10 pound or 10 voucher and they know,

of course, that, you know, that is
probably the same price or maybe more

affordable than putting on an event
that they can put on at the time.

But it's just taking that marketing
spend and spending it in another

way that still works and they
know that that's gonna deliver a.

Andrew Moon: there's just there.

Yeah, we could probably, we
should, we should probably

do a whole show about that.

Just like different types of
marketing that really make an impact.

Um, you gotta touch on that.

I've been to a virtual whiskey tasting.

Somebody did it, did a Zoom meeting,
and again, very small event.

Um, and she sent out whiskey
bottles ahead of time.

And that's what you did.

You got on the event
and nobody got hammered.

Thank goodness.

But again, just thinking outside the
box, I'm like, okay, that's a really cool

idea, but I'm not gonna forget that event.

I'm not gonna forget that vendor.

You know, you're, you're, you're
gonna remember those things and that's

the hardest thing with marketing is
staying in people's attention span.

And those are the things you do
it, you know, and I think it's,

yeah, it's just really easy e
easy to do it now more than ever.

So.

It's a Wes v i t said Leo the Daft Zoom.

Zoomi golden Xd.

Is that an

Scott Riley: guess it's
a golden retriever.

He'll be his, he'll be his dog.

I guess He's got Leo a DAF
golden retriever who loves to

jump on Zoom calls, I'm guessing

Andrew Moon: you see, that's
the thing you make note of.

You make note of those things that
you're not, somebody's not gonna

tell you that in a sales process.

If I'm sitting down in a sales meeting,
you're not gonna find that stuff out.

so many things you can find

Scott Riley: Who do you use?

Your phone system and, uh,
what's the name of your dog?

Uh,

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I think, you know, again,
that's a benefit of that.

So maybe we will do it like a whole,
a whole show about just secondary

marketing ideas to creative marketing
ideas that don't cost a whole lot.

Um, and if you're

Scott Riley: it'd be really interesting.

Andrew Moon: yeah, what, what can you
actually do for a thousand dollars?

Um, cuz you probably get that.

I mean, a lot of people
should I do Google ads?

You know what I mean?

And I've seen people drop a
thousand, $2,500 on Google

ads in a month and get zero.

And I'm like, for $2,500, think about
what you can actually do that would

make an impact where at least one
person would remember you, you know?

And that, that's where I would spend it.

So do we miss any questions?

I'm looking back through
the comments here.

Um, yeah, appreciate, you know,
all the people hanging out today.

Westway it, Eric, Sheldon.

I know you guys probably gotta go cause
we're past the top of the hour here.

Uh,

Robert Gibbons: quickly, quickly
chiming in, if you've got budget to

spend on marketing, don't forget to
also market to your existing clients.

Take 'em out for dinner and ask
them, you know, how's our service?

Are the first services fantastic?

Would you recommend us?

Of course we would.

Who would you recommend us to?

And ask them a direct question.

So yeah, don't, don't forget about
marketing with your existing customers

because they've got the answers.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's why you, you, you
touched on a good point.

Inviting your customers to your
lunch and learn events, which

we always did cuz it's great.

Nobody's gonna pitch your services
better than your customers, so it's

great cuz they were just telling audience
members, giving testimonials for us with

the people they were sitting next to.

So, yeah.

Excellent.

Any other Harding shots?

Uh, make sure I don't, I think we got
all the questions, if I'm not mistaken,

if we missed your question, I apologize.

Uh, but one of

Pete Matheson: to finish off.

Did, did you know how
many Cat eight is a thing?

Cat eight networking cable.

What , since when do we
get to Cat Seven or six?

Like barely.

Anyone's using Cat six
when I was doing things

Scott Riley: Yeah, my brain
stopped at Cat six E or whatever.

I didn't know we had a seven or an eight.

Pete Matheson: This is
uh, actually Andrew.

Andrew Moon: I was gonna say
that is in the best color ever.

So It is orange.

Yeah, I u I I've, I haven't
been able to find them.

Robert Gibbons: days.

Look

Andrew Moon: Yeah,
Robert knows the orange.

I had orange patch panels.

I found a company here in the
States that did orange patch panels.

Scott Riley: Oh,

Andrew Moon: knew as soon as you
walk in where our networks were, cuz

you walk in and there's a 48 port
patch panel and it's bright orange.

You knew who it was.

So,

Robert Gibbons: Yeah.

And your competitors walked
in when Andrew's got this one.

Andrew Moon: he's like, we're just gonna
turn around and go, uh, call it a day.

So Eric said, this is fantastic ideas
on more focused marketing instead

of just shotgunning everywhere.

This is exactly what I
needed to hear today.

Lots of ideas.

and things spinning in my head.

Appreciate y'all.

Pete Matheson: Paulson

Andrew Moon: we helped one person,
at least one person today, and, and

we got the Black Knight to show up.

That was awesome.

So by the way, Craig, if you want me to
produce your show, I would gladly do that.

So, because I have so many ideas that we
could do uh, that would be so much fun.

All right, guys, again,
I got quarter past 12.

It is lunchtime for me.

I know it's the end of
the day for you guys.

When does time change
for you guys, by the way?

I forgot.

I'm meaning to ask

Scott Riley: Oh, it's in
like one or two weeks.

It's soon.

Andrew Moon: Okay.

Ours is, I think March 12th.

Robert Gibbons: March the,
around March the 20th, isn't it?

Andrew Moon: Okay.

Robert Gibbons: 26th.

End of March.

Andrew Moon: Do you guys, you guys
spring ahead too, so it'll be a, I'm just

trying to figure out whether or not we
need to alter our starting time here.

So,

Pete Matheson: Ah,

Scott Riley: out.

We'll jump.

We'll jump on the WhatsApp.

We'll figure out.

Andrew Moon: Gotcha.

Yeah.

Won't affect next week.

I can't believe it's March already.

That is nuts.

We're into the, the, the last
month of the first quarter already.

So, uh, actually got that one.

I think there was one
more comment in here.

Uh, Westway, thank you for showing up.

Appreciate that.

Uh, Craig , I got the laughy emojis
from Craig, um, and Tim Kidney said, the

content of these shows and all the other
media you produce is epically valuable.

Uh, thank you all from the funky mouse.

See there again, there's so many
things you could do with that, that are

memorable, uh, that people remember.

Uh, Carlos, thank you for
showing up from New Jersey.

Appreciate you.

Uh, and again, if you're listening
to this on the podcast, sharing your

earbuds with us, thank you for listening.

Uh, and if you're hanging out
on YouTube, be sure to like

and subscribe to the channel.

Uh, we're trying to do some things
this year with, uh, Bringing some more

interesting content to the great folks
who are tuning in every single week.

We appreciate every single one of you.

So, all right guys, that
was gonna wrap it up for us.

I will see.

We'll all see you all, I think, Robert,
we'll see you, I think March 22nd, so

we got you again on, on, on the 22nd.

So we'll have some more fun with Robert.

Exactly.

We'll see, we'll see.

We appreciate having
you, uh, with us today.

Uh, it's always a pleasure, my friend.

Uh, I, I can't wait till we can
actually meet in real person.

I've, I've not met any of you guys in
real life, so I, I can't wait for that.

It's like we're besties virtually,
but one of these days will

become besties in real life.

So, all right guys.

Uh, great show again.

Thank you.

Craig.

Allen, the Black Knight.

Uh, who is Rick Tubb?

Anyway, , uh, see, Steven's
gonna tell on you, Craig, so.

The Black Knight.

Oh, so much fun with that.

Anyway, guys, uh, we'll see you next week.

Be safe and uh, as always,
thank you for uh, tuning in.

See you next time.

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