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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Shannon Scott (00:01.475)
well hey y'all welcome back to the everything made beautiful podcast i'm so glad you're here today because i have someone with me who i genuinely love i love all my podcast guests but i've known this one for good grief probably 25 years by now and her story is one of those that stops you cold and then you slowly get put back together at the same time so my guest today is rachel faulkner brown
And you need to know several things about Rachel. First, by the time she was 31 years old, she had been widowed twice. Her first husband, her college sweetheart died suddenly from a brain aneurysm. Then she remarried and had two children and then lost her second husband, an Air National Guard pilot in a plane crash. And her daughter was just five months old. So that's the kind of loss that doesn't just hurt. It rearranges everything in your life.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (00:55.534)
You
Shannon Scott (00:58.983)
but what God did with that has been extraordinary. And in 2018, Rachel founded Never Alone Widows, which is now the largest Christian widows ministry in the United States. It's got chapters in over 90 cities for online communities, national conferences and retreats, and thousands of women come and walk back into hope.
She's the author of The Widows Might, which is a 365 day devotional that was written alongside nearly 200 widows. She's got a new study called Seen and she's the cohost of the There Is More podcast. She's an ordained minister. She's a gold star widow. She's a national speaker for folds of honor, but honestly, she's someone who has let God make the most impossible things.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (01:39.15)
You
Shannon Scott (01:48.679)
beautiful. Rachel, welcome to the podcast. I am so glad you're finally here.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (01:54.958)
Well, I'm so glad to be here too. I'm like, enough of all that stuff. Let's just chat.
Shannon Scott (02:00.435)
Well, I have to tell you, I remember we were at Berry College. Somebody was doing a retreat. We were both there and I met you out on the sidewalk. This, I mean, this was before you married Rod. So it has been a long time ago. Yes. Cup of joy. Yes. With our friend Dot Bowen. and
Rachel Faulkner Brown (02:11.031)
Yep.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (02:17.454)
joy. Oh yeah, this was that was in 2012. 2012. Yeah, totally.
Shannon Scott (02:27.385)
you casually were literally standing on a sidewalk. it was me and macy talking to you and you casually dropped those details of your story and i was standing there with my mouth open. macy had her mouth open. you were full of joy in your communication as you always are and you walked on and we just stared at each other like i don't understand what's happening.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (02:30.926)
you
Shannon Scott (02:49.715)
And I need to know more and I need to understand how she's that joyful after what she just said. So give us a little bit of backstory. I mentioned you were widowed for the first time at 23, which is mind blowing to me. I have a 23 year old daughter. Um, but then again at 31. And so now you've got two children under two. that's layers upon layers of loss. So just talk to us about those years and what you were experiencing.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (03:02.488)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (03:15.822)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (03:20.622)
Yeah, I was at dinner last night and I was with a guy who graduated in 2004 and I was like, oh wow, I've been married twice by that point. I was, you know, it's just so mind blowing. Like when I look back on my life, like I'm just like, that was really me and that was really hard. And you know, your trauma brain is a real thing. It does, it blocks out the heart. just like having a baby. I mean, you don't.
Shannon Scott (03:32.891)
Yes!
Rachel Faulkner Brown (03:47.726)
sit there and just rehearse how hard it was, right? You're like, I'm so glad I have this baby. And that's kind of the way I feel about my life. Like as hard as that was and horrible and losses. Yes, the story, it's not the headline, you know, it's not the headline, what God has done. And it's very difficult to say I would do it again, but I would, know, I would, Shannon, I would go through it again to know what I know today. And I can only say that 18 years later.
I couldn't have said that. I would have never said that 17 years ago. I would have said, is suckiest thing that ever happened to me. And I can't believe I've done this twice and I'm mad at you, God. And all these people don't understand. And I don't know any young widows. I was an angry elf. I mean, that's what we call people. They don't know what they don't know. And I was just a little angry at my life. And I'd never been to a therapy.
Shannon Scott (04:18.673)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (04:36.443)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (04:46.669)
Yeah, it was very difficult losing the first husband. I didn't have any children. So it was, know, hey, let's go back to work two weeks later. Let's learn to worship, you know, listening to give me Jesus in my floor with Fernando Ortega. I mean, really, just learned, you know, it was talk about the dark night of the soul sitting on my floor in my bedroom with the jam box singing that song. I mean, I really, I didn't have anything else. I have any kids. had a dog. And, you know, it was just like,
Shannon Scott (04:57.894)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (05:02.29)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (05:10.035)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (05:16.712)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (05:16.745)
And a funny, interesting story is at my 24th birthday, they had a cake, a 3D, like, you know, pre-3D cakes with marzipan, and it was made out of my dog. Like, they made a cake of my dog for my 24th birthday. And I was like, seriously? Like, this is, this is my life right here, you know? And...
Shannon Scott (05:34.097)
gosh. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (05:40.007)
Yeah, yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (05:41.429)
It was devastating. It was a surprise party and I'm supposed to be excited. I'm looking at that cake like, my gosh. But you know, remarried two years later and losing Blair with two kids, I mean, to say like completely different animal is an understatement. You know, loss of income, loss of security, loss of future, like everything, literally everything. And
Yeah. I mean, it was a really, it was a really hard season and we were in a hard season before he died. So, you know, we were, we were in that have kids what wheels fall off the marriage season, you know, like I'm blaming you. You're blaming me. Nobody's happy. Let's go to therapy, but we have to pay for it ourselves because the military can't know something's wrong with us. I mean, it was just so bizarre. And then he dies. I mean, we were in a good place.
Shannon Scott (06:16.85)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (06:36.859)
And did you have, did you have the experience of somebody, you had the experience of somebody coming to your door, right? When Blair died.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (06:47.103)
Yes, they called me on the phone and said, you need to come home. And so when the chaplain called, we were at swimming lessons and so the chaplain called, but we were starting a satellite campus of our church on base. So I had just seen him. So that wasn't like that unusual, which is super odd for people because chaplains don't call unless somebody dies. But I was like, chaplain, hey, you know, just trying to do what I would normally do. And
Shannon Scott (07:12.722)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (07:15.457)
He was like, we need you to come home. And when he said home, I was like, why? Why? You know, why? And I'd done it before. I'd had that phone call before something's wrong and that pit in the bottom of your stomach, that solar plexus just like tightens up like nobody's business. And I was like, my gosh. But this time I had two kids in the back and yeah, it was completely different. And they were waiting for me at my neighbor's house because they couldn't get into my house.
Shannon Scott (07:30.472)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (07:40.578)
They were knocking on the door. I was at home and they called. They have a whole procedure and they kept following the same procedure till they found me because this was like razor phone days. This was a nobody had iPhones. So you didn't take your, didn't take my phone in to swim and lessons. Nobody was going to call me. So really, really, really hard day. Yeah. It was Campbell, you know, was five months old and she's about to graduate from high school. So it's just,
Shannon Scott (07:44.027)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (07:52.998)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (08:08.981)
you know, and it happened April 23rd. So, you know, here in a couple of months, it'll be 18 years, which is just, it absolutely blows my mind it's been that long. Cause honestly, Shannon, watching, you know, the war that we're currently in, and I saw an F-16 spiral down, two pilots ejected, the Kuwaitis, you know, accidentally hit it and nothing, you know, I don't get triggered by war by any means, but seeing that plane go down and seeing those two pilots eject and they lived.
Shannon Scott (08:13.863)
Wow. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (08:29.682)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (08:38.699)
I mean, it's so sad, you know, it's just so sad to me and how traumatized I know they were, but they lived. And Blair didn't get that chance. And he was 39 forever. He died 10 days before his 40th birthday.
Shannon Scott (08:42.066)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (08:48.263)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (08:55.603)
Wow. Well, I again, when I listen to you talk about it, I mean, I know people who have lost a spouse as many years ago as you did, who are still barely engaging with their lives and able to put one foot in front of the other and your source of joy. mean, do people
look at you and go you're just in denial or you have toxic positivity. like how are you actually this joyful? like because you didn't lose two husbands and then suddenly start a ministry. you've actually said that the real reason you have a ministry today is because you finally let go of a secret which was a really vulnerable thing to say publicly. so
Rachel Faulkner Brown (09:41.005)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (09:43.123)
how did you go from losing your husbands to deciding to reckon with this secret from childhood and not build something that's based on grief but is instead based on healing?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (09:57.581)
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, here's the thing. To the measure that you grieve is the measure that you loved. But the girl who was married to Todd and Blair couldn't love to the extent that we were designed to love because I wasn't free. And you cannot experience the kind of intimacy that God designed if you aren't free from yourself.
And I wasn't free from myself. I was hiding. I was living in shame. I was at a low level hum of shame. Even though if you'd met me, you would have been like, she's so happy and fun and you know, whatever. But I lived under a rock of shame. And so, but you don't know what you don't know. It was just nobody talks about hard things. I mean, that's the way I grew up. You get it too. I mean, it's just like, let's just keep all that and.
Shannon Scott (10:22.61)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (10:45.287)
Yep. Yep.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (10:48.161)
family pattern was we don't talk about hard things. know, my dad had had an affair in high school and I mean, it happened. He became a believer through that experience and we really never talked about it since then. I mean, it's just, it was just how we were. And so the thought of being abused as a young girl and, you know, saying something about it, it was like, let's just like tuck that away and then let's make a deal with God that if you don't ever make me tell about this,
I will serve you forever because serving equaled good Jesus girl, right? I mean, it was like, let me just out serve everyone, you know, and get the Iwana badge as an adult and we'll, you know, I'm like, I'm like the coat of many colors, like give me a challenge and I will meet it Jesus, you know, and.
Shannon Scott (11:23.271)
Yes.
Shannon Scott (11:32.657)
Totally.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (11:41.493)
I will do every Beth Moore Bible study and then I'll lead it. I'll put the videos in, I can do that and then I'll host it in my house. You know, you lived it. I mean, it was an absolute unknowing to me performance mentality just like I'd done my whole life. I mean, everything was a performance. I would never have been able to tell you that. But when you live with this thing that you can't let go of, you're like, have to...
Shannon Scott (12:00.893)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (12:08.343)
figure out how to make that thing not be bigger. So let me just perform. you know, so that was, that was the reality. And so, you know, I always, I'm not envious, but I'm always like, when people grieve to such a deep level, it means they loved to such a deep level. And I loved Todd and Blair, but they did not know me. And that, you know, I grieve that. That's what I grieve more than anything is that those two men who
Shannon Scott (12:34.31)
Yeah
Rachel Faulkner Brown (12:38.589)
live with the Lord in the presence of Jesus. They never knew their wife. I didn't know me. And so, you know, I always say when I get to heaven, I'm going to introduce myself to Todd and Blair and be like, you get to meet really me. And so really Rod, you know, my third husband has been the only husband that I've been married to that fully knew me because I was free when I met Rod. Praise the Lord, because he would have never stuck around for all this.
Shannon Scott (12:47.387)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (13:05.901)
all the mess that I went through. And he wouldn't have even been attracted to me. You know, that's the thing. mean, Rod was on a journey of his own healing. And then he, you know, he always said, I looked to the left and there you were. And it's crazy at that interaction with you and Macy. Macy, think might've even said to you, I should introduce her to Rod. This was a year before anyone even...
Shannon Scott (13:06.875)
Hahaha!
Shannon Scott (13:21.575)
Wow.
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (13:29.683)
introduced me to Rod and Macy didn't even know me, which is so crazy. She'd done Rod forever and you too, but it is, you know, and so I do think, yes, you know, I have a dear friend who lives actually in Tennessee and she loved her husband in a way that I can't even relate to because it was so deep. It was so intimate. was so
Shannon Scott (13:35.121)
Yeah, yes, yes.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (13:57.197)
She was so known by him and I wasn't known. I didn't let people know me. And I'm still on that journey, Shannon. I have not arrived. There's still a part of me that's like, it was like this before and then, you know, the hand is a little bit closer to the chest now. There's still self-protection. There's still...
Shannon Scott (14:17.415)
Right.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (14:20.289)
have a hard time identifying what I'm feeling. So I went on a journey after Blair died. I mean, it was the great undoing of me. And it really started in a Kroger when I screamed at a woman who told me I was gonna get cancer because I was buying microwave popcorn. I literally lost my mind on this woman in Kroger. And a friend was with me. She was, yeah.
Shannon Scott (14:38.147)
Rachel Faulkner Brown (14:41.429)
I was single mom, taking care of the kids, friend came to stay, Rebecca, who actually works with me now, and she saw this whole interaction. The one was on a scooter with an oxygen tank, like in a casino, but we were in Kroger. And, God, sorry, this is so crazy. But, you know, she was like, you're gonna get cancer, and here she is, like, sick as a dog. I'm like, seriously, what? And she poked the bear. I was like,
my greatest fear, I'm gonna die and leave my children orphaned, and you just said that's what was gonna happen to me, you just cursed me basically, or I was gonna run out of money. Those were the two things, and that's the two things most widows struggle with.
Shannon Scott (15:06.513)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (15:20.199)
Wow. So yeah, I think you probably just opened something up for some people and this is not specific to widows. But when I think about who really knows me versus who knows a version of me, I have let them see. I mean, that's convicting, Rachel, that you have said, my first two husbands did not fully know all of me. Like that, that's convicting. And it makes me think,
Who are the people in my life who know a version of me and don't really know the full me and why? Why do I have that self preservation going on in that relationship or in that way? And a lot of it is related to trauma or suffering or hard things that are associated with that, but that's really insightful. And I'm sure all of us have had our version of the Kroger moment. So what did that moment lead you to?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (16:11.287)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (16:18.901)
Yeah, well, I mean, Rebecca observed and she was like, I think you need therapy at the time. Like I didn't know inner healing existed. I didn't know anything about anything related to the Holy Spirit. was just, I was in a Bible study and watching women kind of share their darkest moments with this group. And I'm like, y'all need to like keep that under the rug. Like I was embarrassed for them, but I had a secret. So this is all like simultaneously happening. I'm in this freedom Bible study.
I'd done Breaking Free with Beth Moore, but didn't quite get it. I mean, you you just hear it through your lens. And, and so I did this study. And I'm like, wow, y'all are y'all I'm like, for Clint, like listening to y'all like this, y'all, need to tuck it up here. And, but I was really like, wow, I've got a secret, but there's literally no way y'all will find out. And I just, I finally let go. You know, Rebecca saw this little instance because
Anger is really displaced grief. And I was just angry. I was so, so, so, so angry at my life. I was just like, I'm angry. I'm a single mom. I'm angry. Our friend is not helping take care of date, you know, really like speaking into Davis and loving on Davis. was, you know, four or five at the time. I just needed a male. I needed a boy, a man to like take him to McDonald's, you know, or something. And I was just mad, but I
Shannon Scott (17:21.5)
Mm, it's good.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (17:46.029)
been able to tell you that. And Lisa, my therapist, I ended up in therapy for two years every other week. And Lisa said, if I was standing, if you were standing, God was standing over the balcony of heaven and he said, how do you feel about me? What would you say? And I said, well, he would be disappointed. 100 % he would be disappointed in me. God would totally be disappointed. And she was like,
Okay, you know, and at that point she was like, well, we have a lot of work to do, you know, and, I didn't even, couldn't even give her a feeling word at that point. Like I didn't, I didn't understand grace. I understood a version of religion that my church experience had sold me and it wasn't the gospel. It really was not the gospel. And,
Shannon Scott (18:17.492)
Hahaha
Shannon Scott (18:35.804)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (18:37.121)
So when I got confronted with the gospel, my friend Leah, who introduced me to the Holy Spirit, introduced me to the gospel, it was so offensive to me. I literally threw the book. I won't say what book because it might deter you, but I threw the book at her in my driveway because it was so offensive that the gospel didn't involve me working for Jesus.
Shannon Scott (19:04.577)
huh, right? Totally. That's what I'm most comfortable doing.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (19:06.135)
I mean, yeah, I was just like, there's no way I couldn't have a role in this. There's no way. Because in my head, righteousness was all about my right doing. The right things that I did equaled my righteousness. And righteousness had nothing to do with me. But when you don't know what righteousness is, I mean, you're gonna just keep doing right things. And then if you don't do enough, you're not gonna be right.
Shannon Scott (19:14.323)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (19:31.858)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (19:35.629)
And she was telling me a version of the gospel that felt not right to me, right? It felt like heresy and it was actually the gospel. But it's scandalous. And so it was so offensive. I finally came to my senses, which is about the time I met Rod, which is just wild. I would have, Rod understood the gospel. I did not. And even, even things that Rod didn't really fully, like he was still.
Shannon Scott (19:36.296)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (19:54.034)
Wow.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (20:01.901)
I don't mean to offend anyone, but he was still scraping his soul before he took communion. And I'm like, he wouldn't even take communion if somebody sprung it on him. And I'm like, what? I mean, I was so like, and there's a part of me that may not revere it enough. I take communion when I drink my coffee in the morning. I literally have communion beside my coffee. So it's like one and the same. just like, I'm just remembering. There's no like, I have to go do something to be able to take this. And so, you know,
Shannon Scott (20:08.733)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (20:29.233)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (20:31.373)
even me has helped Ryde free himself up from, you know, we've shaped each other, obviously. We've grown up together, even in our 40s.
Shannon Scott (20:41.275)
Well, and Rod and I are definitely from the tradition of you do not take communion in an unworthy manner. And you know, the admonition from Paul about if your brother has something against you, go and leave your gift, all that stuff. And so, but anything in the word of God that is now making us feel
guilty or subjugated in an inappropriate way to something we're probably misunderstanding the heart of God in it because that is not how he deals with us to your point because there's nothing we can actually do to clean ourselves ready ourselves beyond participating in our own sanctification process.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (21:26.281)
No. End of end.
And I'm not, you know, I'm not like living in active angst with some, I mean, I get there's, go to your brother times. I mean, take a friend, like get this right. I don't want to live like that. Yeah. And I'm not, you know, I get all of those things, but the thought of like, there's anything I can do to become more worthy as I'm staring at that piece of bread. I mean,
Shannon Scott (21:40.272)
Yes, for sure.
Shannon Scott (21:53.051)
Yes. Yes.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (21:56.865)
Seriously, you know, like you didn't you didn't make yourself worthy anyway. So you can't make yourself more unworthy. and the thing is, Shannon, the more I get deeply into union, the more and just learning about union, I mean, there's just no way out of who he is, like, I can't get myself more into him. And I can't get myself out of him. There's literally nothing I can do. And so
Shannon Scott (22:22.962)
So good.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (22:25.739)
You know, it's just for a girl who thought it was up to me for 35 years, feels really good to just know that the work of the gospel is rest. And rest looks really different than what I ever knew. That was a nap on Sunday afternoons. That was like eat lunch and take a nap. And I checked the box, I did Sabbath, you know, and I love, mean, I.
think Sabbath is necessary, but it is, I live in Sabbath. You know what I mean? I am at rest with who God is and how He loves me, and He's better than we even know.
Shannon Scott (22:58.824)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (23:02.963)
So good. Which led you all of this, the freedom, the rest, and I remember as this was all stirring, but led you to creating Never Alone Widows, which I want to talk about. It's based on Isaiah 61, know, Beauty for Ashes and the Oil of Joy for Morning. So what does it look like when those true things in Isaiah 61 that Jesus came to bring?
when that actually lands in a woman's life who has walked through the loss of a spouse, like do you remember a moment or a particular story of where you've really watched that scripture go from on the pages of the Bible to real for someone?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (23:50.271)
my gosh, every day, yeah. I mean, the reality is that 99 % of the church, I would say, has not encountered Jesus. I mean, the reality is, is we are not facilitating on Sunday mornings. We are encountering worship and we're encountering the Word. And the person of Jesus, to interact with Him in our divine imagination,
is not typically being taught. And so we help women to encounter Jesus in how else do we interact with an invisible God? I mean, it seems so normal, you know, now for me, but yet I grew up, I'd never used the right side of my brain unless I was singing, you know, unless I was a worshiping and that all that is so good. But when you see Jesus, so we use the Emmanuel approach with Jim Wilder. And so we,
Shannon Scott (24:23.655)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (24:31.73)
Right.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (24:49.333)
help connect the brain back to joy, which is, you know, all your circuits and trauma and loss and grief, your circuits are very dim for joy. Like everything just doesn't feel as high as it used to. So everything's a little dim. And so we reinvigorate the neural pathways to help accelerate the experience of joy. And that is by going into a joy-filled memory. So you can remember and unsplintered joy-filled memory too. Not one with your husband, not one with, you know,
Shannon Scott (25:01.427)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (25:17.127)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (25:19.285)
the whole family there, know, something that happened in the last month that brought you joy because everyone has something that brought them joy. And so we help them to see, taste, hear, feel, experience that memory. And then we invite Jesus into that memory somewhere, see Him, feel Him. A lot of people cannot see in their divine imagination. Like if I ask you to see your room, your bedroom right now, most people can see it. Or can you see when the
Shannon Scott (25:28.081)
Right.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (25:48.917)
Wizard of Oz Turns Color in that movie. Yeah, a lot of people, can visualize that right now as I'm talking. A lot of people can. So what is it? What's it feel like? What's the experience of Jesus came into the room? And that is so telling because a lot of people, if they feel shame, you know there's more, right? There's just so much more. If that is a moment I need to hide.
Shannon Scott (26:10.205)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (26:13.877)
And so we just walk people through over three days, over two days, however long we have with them, experiencing Jesus safely. And that is, that's it. That is it. He is the safest, most loving, most tender, most concerned person in the universe about your life.
individually about your life. And so when you feel seen by God, everything changes. You know, everything changes. And so that is, I mean, they walk in, I can't even sing. I hadn't been back to church. There's no way I'm going to sing the goodness of God. And they walk out with their hands up because when you encounter God, everything changes. mean, you can't, you will never be the same. And what I always say is you can't unknow. You know, once, once you know and not
Shannon Scott (26:38.419)
Mm.
Shannon Scott (26:56.935)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (27:06.165)
I'm not saying all 20 women at every retreat and all 550 that came to the conference, they didn't take what we were giving, right? Not all of them take it and taste it, but for the ones who do, they're never the same. And that's the thing, it transcends theology, it transcends how your mama raised you, it transcends...
Shannon Scott (27:16.199)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (27:32.873)
emotion, you know? It transcends feelings. It is supernatural. It is supernatural to encounter God. And yeah, I mean they look different when they leave. They really do.
Shannon Scott (27:36.445)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (27:48.37)
That's so good. have often when I teach through the book of Ruth and we talk about Naomi and you know her losing her husband and losing her sons. One commentator talked about how grief and pain show in your countenance. And so we think we look exactly the same, but pain shows on your countenance as does joy. And so saying that they look different.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (28:05.566)
Shannon Scott (28:14.987)
Absolutely. And I have to say, and I told you this before we started recording, but just so everybody hears it, you know, leading a women's ministry for seven, eight years in Franklin came upon or we experienced people becoming widows in real time or had been widowed at some point in their journey. And by the time they would get to me, I would literally have my pitch for Never Alone Widows queued up and I'd be like,
I want you to know about this ministry. My friend Rachel began and they would say, and I have to tell you about this ministry called Never Alone Widows that has come around me. And I thought, praise the Lord before I can even get this promotion out of my mouth. Never Alone has already showed up for these women. And so you now have
Rachel Faulkner Brown (28:55.927)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (29:05.863)
chapters in over 90 cities, which I know wasn't because you were like, okay, so as a CEO entrepreneur, here's my big strategy. It happened because women were desperate for us. So what does that tell us about frankly, the church's current relationship with widows? And what do you wish the church, the broader church, the big C church understood about this particular
Rachel Faulkner Brown (29:15.693)
Ugh, God no.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (29:21.378)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (29:34.515)
precious demographic.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (29:36.673)
Yeah. gosh. So many things. In fact, I just, you know, I think the reality is, that we will never, we will never be able to do obviously what the church does, but there are so many subsets of people who are underserved because Sunday's coming. You know, Sunday requires a lot. Same time every week. And, and I think the model of small groups, you know, is awesome.
Shannon Scott (29:55.533)
Yes, same time every week.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (30:05.217)
but you lose a lot of community in that because we're siloed, right? We're all over the city and nobody knows that group. know, and widows tend to, they need a hand to hold. And so coming into a big church and being like, okay, yeah, it's it's overwhelming. And then if you buried your husband there, it's so, it's triggering to come back. And there's just so many dynamics. That's what we are in the most.
Shannon Scott (30:27.462)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (30:30.951)
nuanced ministry ever. mean, every year is different. Every group is different. Every conference feels different. You know, it's so interesting. But I think what I would want the church to know is we're feeling a need where you're doing oil changes or Valentine's luncheons. Love it. Keep doing that. But we're feeling an emotional spiritual need that is very underserved. There's a lot of people doing empowerment workshops and yoga and
Shannon Scott (30:57.587)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (31:00.085)
You know, there's a lot of things out there, but from a true healing and impact so much so that when you sign up to come to a retreat, we're like, this isn't just a retreat to get away from your life. This is to have a new life. Like we don't want you to have the same life when you come to us. Like there's, we're moving forward. So if you're not ready to move forward, you don't need to come to this, you know? And there's a place to.
Shannon Scott (31:14.311)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (31:25.857)
you know, we're walking with people. We're not just pushing them out of the boat, but there is some like, there is some push, you know? Everybody needs a friend up at the top of the diving board to say, you can do this. And look, they just did it too. I mean, you're gonna be okay. And so we just jumped first. And then a lot of times they're like, wow, that was so fun. Let's do it again. And so,
Shannon Scott (31:47.815)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (31:51.807)
Yeah, I mean, think the reality is we are a parachurch ministry. We will never replace the church, but man, do we ever want to help. And honestly, we need the church's help because you have the buildings, you have the childcare facilities, you have the meal teams, and you have the money. I mean, frankly, we give these groups $100 a month, and that ain't enough, I can tell you.
Shannon Scott (32:00.178)
Yeah, it's good.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (32:15.275)
But it's all the budget allows right now. Now, do I want more? Yes. But the ones that are really the groups that are really thriving are the ones that are partnered with churches. And so that's where we are. And once they know what we do, they want to partner. They're like, my gosh, please help us. And this is the thing, Shannon, it is true. God is really clear about taking care of widows and orphans, right? And there are very few things that he was clearer on.
Shannon Scott (32:16.284)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (32:42.099)
100 % yes. Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (32:45.003)
there are very, very few people groups that he was clear about. And so I'm kind of like, this is a mandate. Like this isn't just when we feel like it, we'll do something this year. You know, it's like, can you fully engage with us? Cause we look a lot different than people think we do. Average age is 59 and there are 12 million of us in the U S and 2,800 new widows a day. That is a lot of people. And a lot of them
Shannon Scott (33:13.063)
Woof! Wow!
Rachel Faulkner Brown (33:14.669)
are in your church. And so I think that is education. This is the other thing. 70 % have a major health event in the first year. Loss just does something to your body. And so we're really trying to help widows see health is a spiritual discipline. And so, you know, even this summer, we're partnered with Dr. Ben Edwards, who has the course, You're the Cure. And we're going through his course together because I feel so
Shannon Scott (33:36.007)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (33:44.947)
strongly know if you're sick, the only thing you want is to be well. And so sick people can't really lead a nation into healing. That is not the way it works. You can give it, you've got to give away what you have. And so I want a nation of widows to be the most free, the most well, and the most generous people on the planet. And when we are those three things, my gosh, like look out, like the most unlikely person becomes the leader.
Shannon Scott (33:51.88)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (33:56.817)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (34:14.207)
and the healer. And that's fun to watch.
Shannon Scott (34:18.449)
Wow, that is so inspiring. And wow, those stats that you just rattled off are staggering. Those numbers are staggering.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (34:23.021)
Mm-hmm.
staggering.
Yep.
Shannon Scott (34:29.851)
I was so excited recently because you have a new study, a new Bible study that's out called Seen From Desperation to Destiny. So talk us through that. What is it about and what kind of stirred in you that was like, we need a study that is specific to this, for lack of a better word, market that meets this need.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (34:38.188)
Yep.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (34:54.037)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of widows in scripture, and there's a lot of studies on Ruth you know well. There's, you know, a lot, but no one really has put it all together in a video-driven Bible study. And I'm like, hello, we're widows. We should be doing some Bible study for widows. And we had Father's House. Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense.
We had Father's House, which is a really deep dive into your inner life, right? Your inner world, inner healing, the gospel. Some people in grief, they are not ready to go back to zero to 18. They're not ready for Jesus to walk them out of their shame quite yet. They will be, but they just need a hand to hold in that desperate place. They need to know, what do I need to do tomorrow?
So, you know, we walked through the desperation, the widow of Zarephath, then we walked through daily life. Like, what is the daily, how do we live in the mundane of widowhood? And then the discipline piece, the health, the wellness, the, hey, let's drink some water, you know? Like, what does that look like? And then we walked through devotion. Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, a lot of things, a lot of things. So.
Shannon Scott (35:59.922)
Right?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (36:07.871)
I think we just needed a study that kind of backed up into the reality of grief and kind of walked a little slower. And so the continuum would be, you know, come to something, go get in a local group, do Seen, and then keep going and do Father's House and really deepen that walk and that understanding of the gospel and, you know, take out religion.
And let's just see what God says about your belovedness, your forgiven, your righteous, all those things that I've already mentioned. But seeing was, I'm such a super collaborator. I don't wanna do anything alone. I would have a buddy on this podcast if I could. I just, I love collaboration. I love it, I love it. I'm like, let me collaborate on a book, let me collaborate. And so we've just got all these amazing teachers. And so hearing their stories and how they
process their own grief, how they process the scripture. I just love it. And then I got to do the last message, which is on destiny. And I spent almost eight months studying Mary at the wedding at Cana. you know, Mary is really an interesting widow, because you don't necessarily think of her as a widow. But what she did at the wedding and came to the wedding alone and
Shannon Scott (37:30.333)
That's true.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (37:35.159)
her role in the miraculous is all of our roles in the miraculous. And you need, always say, you need a caller. You need somebody who calls out what's the need for the miracle. And that's what Mary did. And I'm like, that's what I want for every widow. I want you to call out the miraculous, not the negativity that you see. Just call out the miracle that's needed.
And Jesus is going to meet the need, whether it is in the way we want or not. He is going to make it right at some point, you know? And it may not be on our timeline because our timeline is not His timeline. So it's fun. love, I actually really love this study. I'm going through it right now with 54 widows online on Sunday nights. it's just going into rooms with them on Zoom has...
you know, it allows me to get close, right? Because sometimes when you're in leadership, you aren't as close to the ministry that you once did. And I don't like that. I like being close. You know, I don't want to forget from where I've come. And so it just just blows my heart up to watch them feel seen, honestly, in a zoom room.
Shannon Scott (38:29.18)
Right.
Shannon Scott (38:36.999)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (38:52.435)
Yeah, well, and what a gift to have to not be trying to adapt something someone else wrote that's good but doesn't take into account the specifics of what a widow's life is like and her experience is like. It's just a gift to know this is taking all of that into account and so there's a rest.
that comes from being able to walk through a study like this. So I'm so glad that you have published it. I'm so glad for all the resources that people have access to. One thing I wanna go back to because you've said this and I was like, ooh, that is good. You have said that secrets keep us small. And so when you talked about your childhood and that vulnerability being what kind of
Rachel Faulkner Brown (39:20.557)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (39:31.949)
You
Shannon Scott (39:44.302)
freed you and opened you up. I'm just wondering for people that are listening because that's not something that's just specific to widows. What does it look like? Like what's a maybe right next step you could give people practically to begin letting something go that maybe they've been holding alone?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (39:52.29)
Mmm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (40:04.725)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, I love the scripture, confess your sins one to another so that you may be healed. You were already healed at the cross, but that confession is such a critical piece of healing. And so I would just say what I did was I got so tired of keeping the secret that I decided just to say it out loud to a friend in a parking lot. And honestly,
Shannon Scott (40:20.251)
Wow.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (40:32.961)
The enemy is thriving on you keeping that and not using your own voice. And so the reality is, is there is nothing more healing to your body than the sound of your own voice. That is science. I love marrying science and the word and who Jesus wants to be. And so by you speaking it out loud, the chains begin to fall off and rattle, right? And so that's what happened to me.
Shannon Scott (40:48.827)
Yeah.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (41:03.045)
I didn't fully know healing. had a lot of walking out of that confession to do, but I was like, hey, I was abused at 10, 11, and 12. It didn't feel like much at the time, but I'm realizing, my gosh, that messed me up. And I've been trying to make all this better on my own. And so by me saying that to my friend in that parking lot, my gosh, everything changed.
after that release. And I think when I encounter anyone, widows through father, widows or father's house, people who've done it, when they speak it in a prayer line and over lunch, I mean, I can't tell you how many women I've sat across from there. Like I had abortion when I was 18, I thought nobody knew, or I was abused in college and raped, very, very common scenarios. When they say it,
everything changes because it's out. There is a quantum magnification of healing when you speak it with your mouth. And I don't know how that happens, but I know Jesus meant for us to use the sound of our own voice to begin the walking out of the healing. Because I don't believe, I really...
Shannon Scott (42:00.073)
Wow.
Shannon Scott (42:19.171)
It's the it's the.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (42:24.021)
Go ahead.
Shannon Scott (42:24.091)
No, go ahead. I was just going to, I was just going to affirm and say it's the, it's the outworking of scripture have nothing to do with the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. And you're saying the exposing is saying it out loud with your mouth, that confession and that profession in a safe place.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (42:41.677)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's why, you know, what we see with Jenny Allen, you know, where she's like having you turn to your neighbor during a message, it's why there's so much fruit from that, because that is how a nation is healed. It is through confession. And confession doesn't mean, you know, it means say what Jesus is saying about you. It's not like, this isn't for,
It's not even for God, it's for you. It's for you. It's so you can be healed. He's already done the work. He didn't go back to the cross to get you more healed. He's like, just do what I say. Say what I've said about you. I'm the beloved of Christ. Well, you will never know that with a secret. You will never be able to fully engage that in your heart, in your mind, in your body. If you're like, I had an abortion and I feel dirty. If you feel dirty,
Shannon Scott (43:21.831)
Right.
Shannon Scott (43:29.746)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (43:38.955)
You will never understand what Jesus did for you. And so you got, and the responsibility is on us to confess and to say it out loud. And I know people get healed other ways, but I think for women, there's something especially powerful about saying it to another woman. It's just like, there's just, I don't know. It just.
Shannon Scott (43:44.147)
and
Rachel Faulkner Brown (44:04.627)
I don't know. It's just, I mean, that's, that's been my experience. will say, you know, the women who I see walking in true freedom and they're free from themselves. They're free from others. They don't walk in self-hatred. They aren't afraid of man. They don't really care what they think about you. Cause by the way, nobody's thinking about you anyway. The reality, those are the ones who've been in confessional communities. Just powerful.
Shannon Scott (44:09.052)
Yeah, no.
Shannon Scott (44:34.791)
Whoo. So what do you want the woman who is scrolling on her phone at 2 a.m. and she's crying and she finds Never Alone Widows, what do you want her to know before she even reads a single word of what you're about? What do you just want women who are struggling and who don't see any light at the end of the tunnel of widowhood to know?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (45:01.901)
Yeah, well, I want them to know we have a place for you. I mean, it sounds so super cheesy. But but the reality is, is you feel alone, but you're not. And and and no one will believe that more than when they get into a community of like minded sufferers. I mean, there is just something that happens, whether it's divorce, lost a child.
widowed, been abused, those like-minded communities or like similar trauma. Like you are so known in those. I don't even need to use words with another widow. I know that's what we always say when we're at tables with other widows. We know, we know. You don't even have to say anything. We just know. And so there's just an exchange of emotion that transcedes even the mouth.
being using the mouth to say, know, I mean, you just feel known in their presence. And so I think I was just listening to a Maverick song this week and it was sufficient for today. And I'm just like, you know, there's enough to get you to the morning. And when you get to the morning, we're going to be here, you know, because I just, I remember his grace is sufficient for today. It is really, it's not enough to borrow.
Shannon Scott (46:03.699)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (46:19.475)
Hmm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (46:26.847)
it from tomorrow. Like you just got to know it's for today. And that song actually, I'm just like, if I can get a widow to worship in the dark night, the enemy loses power.
Shannon Scott (46:40.787)
Yeah. Woo. Well, Rachel, I, what you have built and created all of the people who carry it with you, it is, it's such a gift and it is such an in season gift for so many that, um, maybe people hope they never have to be the beneficiary of what you have created, but are so grateful.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (46:57.559)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (47:03.575)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (47:07.515)
and transformed when they are. And just as somebody who has spent many a decade serving the church community, has been so just, it has felt like I was a safe place for people because of what you have created that's a safe place for people. So I could with full trust and full confidence say, go here.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (47:27.255)
Mm.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (47:32.417)
Yeah. No.
Shannon Scott (47:34.629)
It isn't just read a book or listen to a podcast. It's go here and you'll find a community who will literally be the physical representation of Jesus to you. So thank you for doing that. and just for what you've built and the way that you steward it.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (47:39.713)
Yep.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (47:46.251)
Yeah. gosh.
Thank you, Shannon. Well, you too, friend. mean, we're just, you know, life is just really short and there is so much, you know, even with the world on fire, I am brighter. I'm brighter than that fire out there. And we are brighter as a community and we burn more together than we do apart. And so I just, you know, I mean,
Shannon Scott (47:59.15)
It is.
Yes. Yes, it's so good.
Rachel Faulkner Brown (48:17.439)
It's an honor, it truly is. And I just, love what I get to do and I love watching your ministry just blow up and what you're doing to help the church. You know, we're just, we're just all on a healing journey and there's more, right? Always more, it never ends. So it's beautiful. Thank you.
Shannon Scott (48:31.153)
Yes, so good. Well, speaking of beauty, because this is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast, I want to ask you the question I ask all my guests as we end, which is, if you could design your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (48:54.191)
my gosh, this is so easy. I would eat, well, I would drink coffee till noon holding my dogs. So that's the first thing. And my coffee is very special. I don't like outside coffee. So this is in my coffee. Collagen, protein powder, creatine, egg yolk, salt, and a little bit of creamer. And so I'm very, I love my special coffee.
Shannon Scott (49:03.315)
Yes, amen.
Shannon Scott (49:21.648)
What is it does it taste good
Rachel Faulkner Brown (49:23.785)
lot, lot of stacks, lot of stacks. It does. You cannot taste the egg yolk and egg yolks are nature's sunshine. So this is all free. But yeah, so coffee till about 11 in pajamas. And then I would go eat lunch at Bar Taco. I would eat street corn off the cob.
and three tacos with rye and then we would go to Goodwill and then we would finish with foot massages. That is a great day.
Shannon Scott (49:55.96)
Wow, you were fast on that. I mean, sometimes people are like, I've never thought about it, but you had it queued up. I love that so much. And I'm gonna have to go back and listen to all those coffee ingredients. I was going with you on the protein powder and the collagen. Like that made sense to me. And then I was like, wait, what's happening with the salt and the egg?
Rachel Faulkner Brown (49:59.437)
Ha
Rachel Faulkner Brown (50:19.757)
I'm telling you the salt decreases the cortisol spike. It's amazing. It is absolutely amazing. Little pinch, little umami flavor. I love it. I love food. love, you know.
Shannon Scott (50:33.747)
Well, I'm impressed and I'm sure there are people who are rewinding and writing that down to try to figure it out.
But thank you again so much. And to all of you listening, I will put all the information from Rachel, all the things she shared, website links, resource links, all of those things in the show notes. And please let me encourage you, if you know someone who has experienced the loss of a spouse and just needs a place to feel seen and known and understood, sometimes without a word, Never Alone Widows is amazing. You likely,
have one near you wherever you live. For those of you who are here in Tennessee, there's one in Murfreesboro, there's one in Lebanon, there's one in Franklin. So it is a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal resource for women. So be sure to share it widely and be sure to follow everything Rachel and Never Alone are doing. Like I said, all that is linked in the show notes and gift the study to someone.
there's resources there and scene isn't the only one that you can use to really show up for a widow in your life. So I hope that you will, first of all,
jot down the coffee recipe, because if you're like me, you're now like, well, now I kind of at least have to try it once to see what it tastes like, because I'm sure it's healthy. Now it's just a matter of if I can swallow it. But don't forget to be on the lookout for the ways that God is making everything around you beautiful, but also including you. And we will see you next time.