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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Mujaias, and today's conversation is a sacred one. You know, we often imagine parenting as something that we do while life is kinda moving forward, while dreams are being built, while careers are growing and plans are unfolding. But sometimes life just stops, like suddenly, completely, and everything we thought was solid is taken out from under us. Well, today, I'm joined by doctor Rick Esper and his wife, Dima, a physician and his bride who were literally living what many would call the dream life.
Michelle Moujaes:Meaningful work, career success, and young children, they just had momentum. And then with a baby and an almost three year old at home, Rick suffered a massive stroke. Overnight, everything changed. What followed though was not just loss, but transformation, like real transformation, not just grief, but a deep and unexpected closeness to God. This conversation is not just about Orthodox Christian Parenting.
Michelle Moujaes:It's about strength amid suffering. It's about the depth of unity that can be found within marriage. And it's about what happens when God meets us not after the storm, but smack dab in the middle of it. I am so grateful that you're here for it. Well, welcome, Dima and Rick.
Michelle Moujaes:I'm so excited to be with you.
Dema Esper:We're happy to Thank be you for having us.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, it's a blessing to have you. So take us back. Let's just start, if you will, tell us a little bit about the days before the stroke. Tell us what that looked like. What was your life like?
Michelle Moujaes:What were you doing? How old were your kids?
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm a physician. I I spent a lot of years of pretty heavy training, and there was a lot of physical and mental abuse that went with it. I trained in the years before. There was a hour time limit. So I was doing thirty six hour shifts.
Michelle Moujaes:Wow.
Dr. Rick Esper:Probably four or five times a month, focusing on about an hour or two of sleep. When I graduated training as a cardiologist, you have the feeling that, okay, this is my time. I was abused by everybody else. Now I'm gonna be the one that abuses. Oh.
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm gonna be the man, and I'm going to get what I deserve.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm going to, make a lot of money. I'm gonna, wear some great designer clothes. I'm gonna drive some nice cars, go on vacation all the time. Other people and helping other people was not on my mind, but I was a doctor.
Dema Esper:At that time, we had moved to Ohio. We had originally moved from Michigan to Indiana and then landed in Ohio. And by God's grace, we were given the opportunity to be in between our families. And Rick So
Dr. Rick Esper:halfway between my family and halfway between her family.
Dema Esper:And our kids at that time, when we moved, Katherine was just almost two years old. And then, right before the stroke, when it happened in '20 April '7, Rick was signed with a really private group here in the area of Youngstown, Ohio. I myself had found, a per diem job at University of Pittsburgh, and I was going in and working, as a GI nutrition support dietitian. Our son, Anthony, was, in the womb before this happened. He actually was a very prominent cardiologist in the area prior to him leaving.
Dema Esper:One evening, he would got on call, and he ended up having a car accident. And then after the car accident, ended up needing kidney surgery.
Dr. Rick Esper:Think a car accident may have started
Dema Esper:May have started at the event. And then in between, right after the car accident, he ended up with
Dr. Rick Esper:He started having some labor pains. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I rolled my car down a hill.
Dema Esper:And I think we we ended up having Anthony about two weeks early, around February. So we had Anthony. And little behold, did we know we think, oh, the car accident, it's over. The kidney stone surgery went fine. And here we had this beautiful young boy, you know, just, born.
Dema Esper:And he came about, like I said, two weeks early after the whole car accident incident. But about two months after we're all feeling settled, things are good, you know, life felt like we were just starting to roll in
Dr. Rick Esper:with two kids Here we go.
Dema Esper:And working. Said life is good now.
Michelle Moujaes:You know? You you had a rhythm. And Right.
Dema Esper:We just started our rhythm with two kids working.
Dr. Rick Esper:You know? We had our plan. You know? We had our plan.
Michelle Moujaes:Isn't that something? Okay. So what happened?
Dr. Rick Esper:I was born with a congenital heart defect.
Michelle Moujaes:Did you know that when you were born with it, or you found There it out
Dr. Rick Esper:is a abnormal communication or a hole between the top two chambers of my heart. A lot of people have this, but their hole is a very, it's like a pinprick the size of a pencil tip. My hole was about an inch and a half wide. I had surgery. I'm laying in bed.
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm not sure I got any blood thinners I may not have.
Dema Esper:For the kidney
Dr. Rick Esper:stone? I formed a clot in my vein from laying around. You're not moving your blood. The clot drained back into my heart. That's normal.
Dr. Rick Esper:Instead of getting pumped into my lungs, which would have happened, it went the wrong way through that hole into the system side of my heart and got pumped into my brain.
Dema Esper:And that's when the morning he was about getting ready to go to work, he went to go kiss Anthony goodbye, and I had just finished nursing. And, you know, we thought, great. Here goes our day. And when he went to go kiss him, he went back. And then all of sudden
Dr. Rick Esper:I really did.
Dema Esper:Passed out, and he said, I feel really dizzy. And those were the last words I heard him say. And and then he passed out. I thought maybe he was hypoglycemic.
Dr. Rick Esper:Needed some juice.
Dema Esper:I was like, I you need some juice. I was like, worried. Like, he just passed out. And luckily, like, that was happening right before his work day. So that the event, even in that moment, we little did we know was blessed that it happened in front of me.
Dema Esper:And that allowed me to get in touch with his brother. He said call the ER, call the ambulance, and he was taken there immediately. So within that
Dr. Rick Esper:So I go there. They thought I was having a stroke on the CAT scan of my brain, and they gave me what they call clot busters, medicine to break up the clot in my brain artery, blocking a blood flow, but it didn't work. My partner was there getting ready to start his day, and he arranged for me to be transferred to the Cleveland Clinic, which is right next to us. So I had a procedure with a catheter where the catheter was put in my artery, my groin, slid backwards, the optic nerve in my body, into my brain artery. They put a catheter, and then they pucked out the clot.
Dr. Rick Esper:That was causing the stroke, and they avoided it.
Dema Esper:And luckily, like, all of that happened literally within, like, five and a half, six hour.
Dr. Rick Esper:Like Probably about four hours.
Dema Esper:And reperfusion to that area very soon after in that time frame. So
Dr. Rick Esper:There was amount there's a of blood there's a lot of brain that could have been saved.
Michelle Moujaes:So you're saying that it's atypical that it would have been treated that quickly, but because it was, that actually preserved a lot of your brain function.
Dr. Rick Esper:Yeah. A lot of people would be like, oh, is this guy having a stroke? Well, maybe he is. Maybe he's not. What do you wanna do?
Dr. Rick Esper:By that time, four hours have gone by, and the guy's Yeah. Fried.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dema Esper:By the grace of God, that day, he literally orchestrated the event in a way that he preserved him and gave him grace and mercy in the
Dr. Rick Esper:Well, let let's just talk about what happened.
Dema Esper:No. That's important to know. It was very evident in the event that there was grace and mercy even in the event that was traumatic.
Dr. Rick Esper:So I was paralyzed. I couldn't move my left side. I didn't know my left side was there. One third of my brain was cratered. What was it?
Dr. Rick Esper:A few weeks? It had to been about a month or two in bed paralyzed.
Dema Esper:By he ended up at Cleveland Clinic in there for a week.
Dr. Rick Esper:There was a lot of swelling in the brain.
Dema Esper:And kind of had a very critical condition for about the first three to four days where the brain is trying to, accommodate for the stroke and there's a lot to
Dr. Rick Esper:See, brain after an injury, tissue swells. So the brain started swelling, and you swell if your brain swells against your skull, the skull isn't going to give. So when the brain swells, your brain is going to get pushed down through the hole It's in the bottom of your called a herniation, it's fatal. So they were thinking about doing surgery, take out part of my skull, but didn't have to do that.
Michelle Moujaes:But, Rick, were you awake at this time? Like, did you know what was happening?
Dr. Rick Esper:I didn't know. All I knew, Oliver was waking up in the ICU saying, which side was it? And my daughter was there at my bedside, and I just kind of stroked her hair, and then I couldn't move my left side.
Dema Esper:The ability for them to transport him to Cleveland in the midst of me trying to get there and all of that happened, Even, you know, they called for consent and, you know, I allowed them, you know, please go ahead with the procedure. So by the time I got up to Cleveland Clinic, it was already done, and he was in the ICU. So now at that point, that was from, like I said, the car accident, February, a birth of a beautiful young boy, and then here, a stroke in April. So in about a month span, all of this transpired. So it was quite in enduring, I would say.
Dema Esper:By the time, I should say yeah. Very much so.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So you're now in Cleveland Clinic. You've been a week in ICU. What's the next thing that happens?
Dr. Rick Esper:Well, they separate the transfer you back to Youngstown to St. E. E. Hospital in Youngstown, where you're gonna go through physical therapy, and I didn't know what they meant. But I couldn't walk.
Dr. Rick Esper:I couldn't go to the bathroom. I couldn't toilet myself. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't shower or anything.
Dema Esper:You couldn't sit up. So
Dr. Rick Esper:I couldn't sit. So when you're in bed for a long time, you're deconditioned, and you can't do anything.
Dema Esper:So that course took almost like six weeks. We spent intense
Dr. Rick Esper:eight days in transferred me to to Mercy, St. E's downtown Youngstown, wasn't able to to move. I wasn't able to even sit up in a chair or get out of bed. I all I could do is lay in bed. And, they gradually started, okay, time to get out of bed.
Dr. Rick Esper:We're gonna have you sit on a chair. That's where we're gonna first thing we're do. I just tried to move your trunk a little bit, balance your trunk. I couldn't do that. Kept on sliding down the chair.
Dr. Rick Esper:You would think sitting in a chair is easy, but I couldn't do it.
Michelle Moujaes:Wow.
Dr. Rick Esper:And gradually, they kept on just massaging, a lot of the areas of my my left side. And then after a little while, I would say probably a week or two, gradually my left leg started to gradually flex a bit. Oh. That meant I could start to minimally control my left leg. They said, let's try physical therapy.
Dr. Rick Esper:Just try to drag yourself with your right side. I didn't know what this meant. You know? I was I'm gonna try hard, but it meant I'm not gonna be able to go to work. I'm not gonna be able do anything.
Michelle Moujaes:And you were a surgeon.
Dr. Rick Esper:Well, not a surgeon. A cardiologist. I usually tell the patients when they gotta get surgery, I'll send to the surgeon. Okay. I keep the engine running well.
Dr. Rick Esper:And, when the engine needs, the hood opened up, the surgeon does that. Okay. Open up the chest and do the bypass or replace the valve. But I try to make sure they don't need bypass. We try to treat their risk factors.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Rick Esper:I would get blood pressure and cholesterol under control, do some testing and that type of thing. So I gradually started using the left leg, and they said, okay, we're going to give you a walker. Gonna try to make you use the walker. I couldn't feel my left leg at all. And, my left arm was not being used, so it dislocated.
Dr. Rick Esper:The muscles were too weak to hold the shoulder in the girdle. And so my my I just had what's called a subluxation. The left arm just fell out of the socket. This, it wasn't strong enough to hold it in. I learned how to gradually walk as the leg got stronger and stronger.
Dr. Rick Esper:And then just like with the leg, the left shoulder began to just minimally start cutting back a bit. Mhmm. And like, okay, just move your shoulder. And I moved my shoulder, but nothing else would happen. Just the shoulder would twitch.
Dr. Rick Esper:Nothing else down toward the elbow or the fingers.
Dema Esper:It it it really was a journey because when you're in therapy like that, you just look for the morsel of recovery. And and usually in stroke recovery, it's like milla, isn't it, like, very minimum minimal Tiny tiny little bits at a time. Bits at a time. But it was what kinda fueled his recovery is when we and there were times when, you know, the team would meet and I would be present.
Dr. Rick Esper:He went into the the Team meeting. The team meetings.
Dema Esper:And, you know, and they said, at first, he was very, a a dense hemiplegic. And I was like, what does that mean? You know?
Michelle Moujaes:What does that mean?
Dema Esper:It was just
Dr. Rick Esper:Half means paralyzed.
Dema Esper:It was very dense means
Dr. Rick Esper:The whole half of your body is paralyzed.
Dema Esper:Yeah. So and then we just started to, like in order to kind of keep things going, we would track, oh, you know, today he did this. Today you know? And and then you start to see glimpse of hope.
Dr. Rick Esper:They would say, you gotta move. You gotta move. You can't sit around in bed. You gotta move.
Dema Esper:And and they would schedule, like, occupational therapy,
Dr. Rick Esper:speech therapy,
Dema Esper:and Yeah. Of course, physical therapy. And it's a very grueling kind of several weeks. It was almost like a six week journey before we can get him to be stable enough to
Dr. Rick Esper:do Probably a couple of months to the hospital learning how to walk again.
Dema Esper:It was, yeah, about six weeks.
Dr. Rick Esper:And then they came in. They they were like, okay, doc. Come on in. We're gonna get started for PT, and I'm in the bed. Just get out of here.
Dr. Rick Esper:Leave me alone. I don't wanna talk to anybody.
Michelle Moujaes:You you were angry?
Dr. Rick Esper:Oh, yeah. Of course.
Dema Esper:Yeah. Initial.
Dr. Rick Esper:I was in there crying.
Dema Esper:Yeah. The initial shock of it. It
Dr. Rick Esper:I have to get back to a 100% like I was before. I need to get back like it was before. Do you hear that, god? This is my recommendation to you. Yeah.
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm ordering you, God. I'm ordering you, God. Here's what I want you to do.
Michelle Moujaes:I think it makes sense because you were a young man too, weren't you, Rick?
Dr. Rick Esper:How old
Michelle Moujaes:were you?
Dr. Rick Esper:35.
Michelle Moujaes:35. So if you have your identity, you're a doctor, you're starting your life, everything is going your way.
Dr. Rick Esper:I'm a very important person. See me? See how great I am?
Dema Esper:Well and I and I think if anyone listens and and when you do listen into this, I think that's the thing is at that time, we both were identifying ourselves through our profession. And it was at those moments when we both were scaled back and really kinda had to reclaim kind of who we were individually but who we are together. And it just was that type of moment of like, wow. Life is just gonna stay here. And we didn't know how long it was gonna what it looked like or what it was going to look like.
Dema Esper:But I think that stroke recovery, and if anybody does go through any kind of major trauma or illness or something like this, is that what you look like now, you just know that it's not always gonna look like that in the end.
Dr. Rick Esper:Well, you know what? They would say to me, like I said, they would say I would they'd come in say, doc, it's time to get ready. And I'd say, leave me alone. They said, doc, okay, listen. Your wife is coming here.
Dr. Rick Esper:If your wife sees that you are not ready for PT and you're in your pajamas, We are gonna they used a different language. They said, but we're gonna get in trouble, and you're gonna get in big time trouble. So please, for god's sake Yeah. Get up. And fear of her temper
Michelle Moujaes:No. I love it.
Dr. Rick Esper:Got me up.
Dema Esper:Well, you have to remember when he arrived. He almost was like a celebrity there. You know? And it got to the point where so many of his colleagues and friends and even coworkers and people in the office wanted to come and see him. And, you know, I had mentioned I said, you know, I think at this point, he needs his privacy, and we need him to recover to bring him home.
Dr. Rick Esper:The point I wanted to make is that the motivation, like, what are you gonna say? I don't want this to happen to me. It happened.
Dema Esper:Mhmm. We had to power through
Dr. Rick Esper:it. It happened to you. Are you gonna sit in bed and and not do anything? Work to get better.
Dema Esper:And then that was the fuel.
Michelle Moujaes:What I love about your story is that when that motivation wasn't there for you, Rick, as your partner and your spouse, she had enough for the both of you. And it seems like she did not let wallowing in sorrow or suffering be an option for too long, which I love.
Dr. Rick Esper:Some tough language you used to motivate. I
Dema Esper:think, Michelle, thank you. That's most kind. I think that is what happens. I think you get into that, mode where and I use the analogy almost kind of like an like, we go to think about our ancestors and our, you know, our families who come from, you know, kind of like migrating here, and they had that tough resilience to them.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dema Esper:And I remember, like, at times people would be like, I can't believe what you're doing. And I said, well, this you know, God doesn't give you more than what you can handle.
Dr. Rick Esper:In the moment Mhmm.
Dema Esper:You you just have do it. Just have to do it. And I think through God's grace in those moments, I was being able to challenge that energy of of of, like, hope to say, we're gonna make this work. We're gonna make him better so he can come home. And I and I think that is what I would hope others can do in the moment.
Dema Esper:It's like, yeah, you do you almost mourn. I remember father Shahoog from Livonia said, Dima, I don't know why at this moment you've been given this challenge where you are now going to be the mother and the father. And I said, wow. You know? And you do.
Dema Esper:You had to kinda, like, take on both. And through that strength and that hope, you know, of of him coming back is what I think fuels you at times.
Michelle Moujaes:Not easy to do when you have two babies at home.
Dema Esper:It was. And it wasn't at times, but, you know, luckily, they were at the age where, you know, Yanki was an infant, and he was two months old, and he kinda was transportable. So he kinda was my security blanket. You know? At times, I Yeah.
Dema Esper:Yeah. You know, I got to have him with me. And, you know, even though it's not the best conditions, bringing an infant into, like, a rehab center and having your three year old with you as well. But they were at an age where they can be with us and go with us. And and then, eventually, we did have him home, and he had outpatient therapy.
Dema Esper:And, you know, they they were at that flexible age where they can kind
Dr. Rick Esper:learn how to how to drive a car and get adaptive equipment
Dema Esper:Yeah.
Dr. Rick Esper:And move on.
Michelle Moujaes:You went through that, you're saying, Rick?
Dr. Rick Esper:Gradually learn how to, just get home, learn how to live in my house, learn how to take a shower, learn how to go to the bathroom.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. We take it for granted. I know I heard you when you and I first talked about this story, which is it was one of the most moving conversations I've had in a really long time because what I think you did so beautifully was you took what would, you know, arguably arguably be a really tough situation, and you've used it to help transform you more into the image of Christ. And you've intentionally fought through the struggle and done what the church so beautifully teaches us, which is fall and get back up, fall and get back up, even quite literally. And I just wonder if you could speak for a minute about that process where you just started to submit.
Michelle Moujaes:Because it sounds like you were kind of pissed at the beginning, and you were ready to say, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing it. We're gonna just it's gonna go away. But at what point and how did that transformation kind of come about?
Dr. Rick Esper:It took, probably at least a year. I was really angry. Mhmm. Really mad. Really angry at God.
Dr. Rick Esper:I remember screaming at him in a dream I had. Just screaming at him. You better do this. You better give me back my function. But over time, it just sets in.
Dr. Rick Esper:And I would also add to what you said, I think that God is the one that, made it so that I changed. It's not like I it's not like I did anything. I just tried to take what I got and keep moving forward with it. But then after a long time, you realize, okay, you know what? It dawns on you, I'm not going to get my hand function back.
Dr. Rick Esper:My whole left side is always going be stiff. It ain't going to be like it used to before. This is going to be like this until the day I die. Am I going to be bitter and angry all the time for something that I can't change? No.
Dr. Rick Esper:And gradually, over time, just saying to myself, well, it's not going to get better. It's going to be like this. Things get better gradually because I've been going to therapy and getting the frozen shoulder stretched out. It's a lot better than it used to be, but the function's not going to come back. You realize it's not going to get the way I told God I want at the beginning.
Dr. Rick Esper:When I said to God, here's what I want you to do for me. I'm going to give, you know, Thy will be done, but here's my list of what I want done, Lord. Thy will be done. Here's number one. Number two, then you realize, okay, it's not I'm not allowed to make the recommendation on what's going to happen.
Dr. Rick Esper:Not up to me.
Dema Esper:Well, and I think also in the suffering, Michelle, a lot of times, you you start to see the grace and the mercy, and then you you you change your your perspective to say, you know what? It's a blessing we're able to do these things. It's it's God's gift that we were even given this. And I think that's the transformation of submission when you change your mindset to for acceptance and then a lot of gratitude and and and you get you get to the point where you say, wow, this is given to us. How did we get so blessed to have all of this?
Dr. Rick Esper:It's a built in thorn in the flesh.
Dema Esper:It reminds us a lot. And I think that suffering then led us as a couple to be in the midst of others suffering. And I think when you get to see humanity and the frailty of illness at such a young age in our couple, as a couple, we were the youngest people going through, like, stroke therapy at times. You know? He was one of the youngest.
Dr. Rick Esper:All these 80 year old people.
Dema Esper:Yeah. And you say to yourself, wow. Like, you're right. You have this young family, and here's this prominent cardiologist, you know, and it strips you of your pride. And I think, you know, the pride lessons.
Dema Esper:The submission comes in, the gratitude. A lot of this all kind of builds in to relentless saying God's will is is being done, and we're going to just take what we have and use it as as our grace and our, you know, submission to him.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So I wanna touch on something you said, Dima. You said and then there's a point where gratitude comes in. So let's talk about that gratitude. Was there a moment where you went from anger or frustration over the suffering and really started to see God's hand working?
Michelle Moujaes:I know now almost twenty years out, it's really easy to see if he hadn't passed out in the nursery, it could have gone a different way. Or if his partner hadn't have been in the ER, it could have gone a different way. But when did that turn from, like, okay. We'll cope with this situation into, like, thank you, Lord, for providing in ways that we didn't see?
Dema Esper:Well, when you see, like, as a young family, you know, and you've been given the chance to have a practice the way they handle things, you know, most stroke therapy takes over a year, if not many years after, and it still continues. And so when you get to see the fact that he was able to be, you know, go back to his vocation and in the capacity that he was able And they, you know, almost, like, allowed him that time for recovery.
Dr. Rick Esper:They left my position open. Said take as they said take as long as you want and come back when you're ready.
Dema Esper:And Wow. And, you know, and then you see that he still that he was able to go back to that. Not because, you know, he's in the position to gain anything, but he was like, you're given these positions to give back. And I think those are the moments, like, when you start to see him witnessing his recovery to his patients, and you realize that that's, like, the gift he gives back to them by letting him see his suffering, you know, helps him to adapt to their suffering. And I think as a spouse, when you start to see, like, life, you know, gives you many challenges.
Dema Esper:And it's like at the point where you say, okay. This challenge was difficult. And but then you have a young family. And you say to yourself, do you want their memory and their childhood to be moments of when, you know, you are either strong or in moments of gratitude, or do you want them to see you when you're just, you know, taking what you've been given and you're bitter and angry? And I think they're your motivation because you're also developing and footprinting their life in this process.
Dema Esper:And I think that's, you know, something that you have to think of. Like, in the moments when you're sitting there with them, they're living their life and you wanna make that full life for them. They are your motivation to be gracious for everything that you have in front of them. You know? Because without his recovery, I went back to work in a new position, but it it was at a capacity that allowed me to be local and, you know, I wouldn't have to be almost extend myself to the point where I was before going to Pittsburgh and coming back.
Dema Esper:And then you realize, like, you're you're building that life here in your home now with your children. The focus is is you you use the gifts you've been given now to move it forward, if that makes sense. His life was granted back to us. The mercy and the grace. I used to say the Jesus prayer.
Dema Esper:You know, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on him when he was going through all of this. And then do I come back and be bitter and say, you gave me the mercy? You saved him. But so it's it's a it's a transformation, I think, through life as a mother, as a wife, and then you say to yourself, okay, what can I do with this?
Dr. Rick Esper:As a physician, before I would say, okay, I will allow you to be treated by my expertise. I'll treat you. But since then, the stroke, you know, I want to help these people. I see their suffering. I feel for it.
Dr. Rick Esper:I just I feel for it. I'm right there with you. I know what it's like. And I wanna help them, just not feel the way I felt. And I tell them, listen.
Dr. Rick Esper:Call my office if you need me. Come back in three months. If you need before then, call the office. Ask for the desk nurse.
Dema Esper:Well, I I think also what's beautiful is what he does a lot is I've been there. I know what that feels like. You know? You have your cross. I have my cross.
Dema Esper:Wow. You know?
Dr. Rick Esper:Jesus Christ had a cross. Why don't you need to why why don't you have to have a cross?
Dema Esper:We're all given something to work through. And I think the motivation too, Michelle, if you think about it too when you're parenting and a lot of times things coming your way. You know? And I'm hoping that that journey as we were going through it can be something that our kids come back to understand the resilience of when suffering is in the midst of all of our lives. It's gonna happen inedibly.
Dema Esper:You know? Mhmm. What do we do with it? And I'm hoping that that's the resilience we want to you know, we all gonna have difficulty, but using the church as your and that is what helped us both is, like, our faith. Without that, I don't think we would have come around on the other side because you can easily get buried down and and and you can easily be, you know, deterred by the difficulties.
Dema Esper:But then you say, but if you look at our liturgical life, it it reminds you at all times suffering is in there in everything we do.
Michelle Moujaes:So it seems like both of you were transformed whether you wanted to be or not. How about your children? How do you think this made them different than they might have been had this not happened?
Dema Esper:The what I see in them is they have a sense of empathy. You know, they have the ability to feel. I think when when others are suffering, you know, oftentimes, like, I feel you know? And both of them had different ways. Like, Katherine was three, and, obviously, Anthony was an infant.
Dema Esper:And when they start to see later at some point, Katherine had the gift of using, this is, like, helping us with her laughter and her persistence. And so it's like, I think they also taught us how to also have joy in life.
Dr. Rick Esper:If my kids see me working, you know, come home and, you know, I still have a limp. And if they see me come home tired, limping, but still pushing through and being on call and answering phone calls during dinner, and still up at 05:00 in the morning out of the house by the time they leave. If they see that perseverance, I think it'll motivate them to say, okay, you know what? He did it, so why can't I do it?
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. Resilience at its best. Let me ask you. And and, Rick, this is specifically for you. What parts of your spiritual growth do you think were only born because of kind of, for lack of a better word, the loss that came from this event?
Michelle Moujaes:Because I've heard you say things about your transformation or about the fact that you learned humility, you know, the hard way, really. But walk me through how you felt yourself growing closer to God and being more reliant on him.
Dr. Rick Esper:Well, first of all, I wouldn't say that I have gained humility because I'm still pretty pretty, pretty arrogant and egotistical.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it.
Dr. Rick Esper:But, I will say this that I didn't want to go through this. I didn't wanna go through this. I did a, you know, reading, and I think one of the father said that without suffering, you can't enter the kingdom of heaven.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Rick Esper:And then when I was in therapy with one old older guy, he told me I was crying so hard. I looked up at God after my stroke and said, God, why me? God looked down and said, why not you? Like, who are you? Why should you not suffer?
Dr. Rick Esper:If Jesus Christ had a cross, why, why shouldn't I have a cross? So why am I who am I to say that I don't really want to have to deal with this? Because this is a drag. Yeah. Walking around the hospital, walking around the office with pain and stiffness is a drag.
Dr. Rick Esper:Yeah. I can't. In the wintertime, it's even worse.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Rick Esper:But wasn't there, I believe, some text in the Bible about Saint Paul? He had a thorn in his flesh, and he said, God, take this away from me. And God said, no. I don't want you getting puffed up. So what what if this went away from me?
Dr. Rick Esper:How arrogant would I be? Look what happened to me. I had a massive stroke, and look how great I am now.
Dema Esper:As a spouse, I see the transformation on my end because, you know, you can see that his focus every day from the time he wakes up to the time he gets through the midday and the evening. It's all about what can I do for the person in front of me? And I think
Michelle Moujaes:I love it.
Dema Esper:I see that in in his transformation that it transferred from me to others in other ways. And and through the gift of that, I think that also helps not only me, but our children to see, you know, what we're called to do is to help the person in front of us.
Dr. Rick Esper:A lot of times the kids will say, well, I'm angry at this guy and say some bad things. And I'll say, okay. You know, mercy, love, no condemnation of anybody for anything. I don't wanna hear that. Well, that's what he said.
Dema Esper:It teaches us to teach them. Yeah. That's right. His yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:If you'll use that learning to teach them, it could be very powerful if you'll be obedient in the learning.
Dema Esper:I think that's really key, Michelle. Sometimes we get sidetracked and ask and and not look in. It's an it's a lot of introspection when you do suffer because you do end up asking yourselves different questions. You know? Why this?
Dema Esper:Why that? But then in the end, you find yourself coming back introspectively saying, okay. This is for for me to strengthen this weakness I had to make it stronger.
Dr. Rick Esper:I've thought about it for a lot. And somebody said to me, don't you think God was mad at you and he punished you by giving you the stroke for what you did? Yeah. And I said, no. I don't.
Dr. Rick Esper:I think it was a gift. Because every time I step on my left side or every time I have pain, I think of him. It's a built in remember me. Don't forget me. Remember me in your suffering.
Dr. Rick Esper:So I don't look at it like that. I can almost say, not quite, but that I'm grateful almost that I that I had this. This is a few years of living with this. This is like I said, it's a drag. But just a few years, and I think the attitude I had before would have been, God was a not a very important I went to church and but I would look at God like, here's my vending machine.
Dr. Rick Esper:Oh. I'm gonna pray to you for this, and I'd like this. But Mhmm. What's the point of that?
Dema Esper:We were taught, you know, sometimes in your upbringing, you have a vision of where God was taught to you. Like, it's almost like If you do this,
Dr. Rick Esper:God will be mad at you.
Dema Esper:If you do this, it's like transactional, you know, in a way. Transactional. Yeah. And we and we say God's love is infinite. There is no transaction.
Dema Esper:And and nor do we have to be perfect for him to love us. And I think the stroke really allowed us to see in his our infancy and our suffering and our doubt and everything that we thought we knew, was just completely removed from the character we see of God now who's just wanting us as his children come close to me. I will provide. It's like an infinite trust and hope in everything that's in front of you. And we used to be very like, oh, we're gonna do this.
Dema Esper:This is gonna happen in the future, like futuristic. But now we think God's will will happen accordingly to its will.
Dr. Rick Esper:I've thought of myself. Who am I to tell God what I want? What to do? I'm not gonna tell God what to do. God knows what to do without my help.
Dr. Rick Esper:What am I gonna do? The prayer is let me know your will. Give me the power to carry it out.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. You you told me a story one time about how one of your patients said, I don't wanna have surgery and pray that I don't have to have surgery. And you said that surgery saved my patient's life.
Dr. Rick Esper:Like, are to
Michelle Moujaes:tell God? Who are we to tell God how it should look? But I think that we do that. I think that's a super American or, like, 2026 kind of way of existing.
Dr. Rick Esper:Communion is being able to make an effort to be connected to the Lord. Mhmm. To do a self examination. Where did I mess up? Where did I sin against you?
Dr. Rick Esper:Where did I disappoint you? I wanna get better. I wanna confess everything that I did to you. I wanna confess all my mistakes. I feel badly for them.
Dr. Rick Esper:I want to learn. I wanna receive your body and blood inside of me. I want to have your power in me so I can be with you.
Michelle Moujaes:One of the reasons I'm so excited about your story is because I think it offers to other parents. Listen. We all have our thing. Like, has their thing. There is none of us who gets away unscathed.
Michelle Moujaes:Nobody. Right? Like, everybody has pain in some way. And so for parents that are listening, what would be the most practical advice that you could give them as they're going through their scathing? What would that look like?
Michelle Moujaes:How how can we help parents practically, whether it's a sick kid, whether it's you're sick, you know, whether it's you've had some sort of loss, whether it's you've had, you know, let's just even say financial difficulties, what is it that parents can get up and do to help them on that path?
Dr. Rick Esper:I would say two words come to my mind, surrender and acceptance. Saying, I wish it was this way. I don't like the way this is now. I really am angry with the way things are going. That's not that's not beneficial.
Dr. Rick Esper:It it's not helpful. God's will is done, and he knows what's in my best interest. Mhmm. It could be painful, but it's good for me personally and for the family.
Dema Esper:And and then using that in those moments to say, what is it that you want us to learn rather than, you know, what can we do in this moment? And and I think if in the day of life, it's not easy. You know, we're all tasked with multiple challenges in the day and raising a family and the you know? And I think first saying to yourself, where in this moment can God be in the middle of it, even in the difficulty? Like, how can we step back, lessen ourself for a moment, and put him in the middle and just you know, the thing that we would there'll be nights where you you do have those difficult days and those nights where you're just like, wow.
Dema Esper:How did we get through this day? And there will be seasons with your children and seasons within your marriage and seasons within life that don't look happy, and they're difficult, and they and they're challenging. And don't forget your toolbox that the church gives you. I remember there are times where my to do list was so long because I had to, at times, be both a mother and a father, and you're depleted at the end of the day. But then I remember a piece said, Dima, just say the Jesus prayer.
Dema Esper:You know, as little as I can, find a way to connect. Be present with him. Use the liturgical life and the calendar of the liturgical life to renew you. Because here we are about to be renewed and enter in into the season of Pascha. It's like, thank you.
Dema Esper:I'm ready for it. You know? You you feel depleted. It's the end of the year, and you or, you know, the start of the year in the western calendar, but yet we're in the middle of the liturgical year. You know?
Dema Esper:Renewing yourself through the liturgical life. Small prayers, small readings. And I will say, Michelle, you know, the gift of faith tree, you have multiple tools that you're building for a community. Use it in ways to help you. You know, ancient faith radio, your church community.
Dema Esper:Just staying within the liturgical community can really strengthen you and and help you through those some of those difficult seasons.
Michelle Moujaes:Let me ask you. We have always a little time for audience questions, and we have some that have come in. So, Dima, this one comes to you. This is from, actually, a dad named Rick. Go figure.
Michelle Moujaes:Rick is from New Jersey. He is a parent of three, and he says, as a parent, how do you find strength to keep showing up for your children on days when your body or mind feel like it has betrayed you? Actually, I feel like that's a Rick question. Yeah. That's a Rick question.
Dr. Rick Esper:I force myself.
Michelle Moujaes:You force yourself. Okay.
Dr. Rick Esper:I just force myself and say, it's this my this is what I signed up for. And I just say that Jesus prayer, please, God, help me do this. Please help me do this. Make the sign the cross.
Dema Esper:There are days you are not showing up your best. I've done it, we've all done it. And you remorse for maybe the way you approach something, or you felt like, wow, I could have been better in those moments. I think what those days look like are days where you you're very vulnerable. And those are the days where I would just say, wow.
Dema Esper:I wasn't my best self yesterday and, you know, take a day back. Do a personal inventory. Find where you can, you know, look at that day of that what what and and just say to your children sometimes, I know I didn't show up the best that day, or I didn't feel the the you know, well enough to handle that situation. But now that I have a day behind me or two days behind me, I just wanted you to know we use a lot of apologies sometimes in parenting. You
Michelle Moujaes:just Absolutely.
Dema Esper:Yeah. You just apologize. And and then when they see that, I think that also teaches them that
Dr. Rick Esper:Sometimes I have, sometimes I have lost my temper with my daughter. Yeah. Hurt hurt her feelings. And then sometimes I go off, and then I when I calm down, I say, okay. That was bad.
Dr. Rick Esper:How was I selfish? How was I fearful? How was I resentful? How was I dishonest? And I'll say to her, you know, Katherine, I apologize.
Dr. Rick Esper:After I calm down, I think about it. Katherine, I did I was selfish because I did this. I was dishonest because I acted like this. I was fearful. I was resentful.
Dr. Rick Esper:Please forgive me. I was wrong.
Michelle Moujaes:I think that's beautiful. Yeah. Because, I mean, that's repentance being taught in action. Yeah. Right?
Michelle Moujaes:When you're Yeah. When you have enough humility to come before your children and say, yeah. I didn't get that right. I'm gonna try I think that's a beautiful way as opposed to let's memorize facts about forgiveness and repentance. Like, that's it in real time, which I love.
Michelle Moujaes:Yes. That's it. The faith in action. Alright. One last question.
Michelle Moujaes:Dima, what would you say to a parent who feels guilty for not being the same mom or dad that they were before illness entered their family life?
Dema Esper:That's a that's a good question because when you're parenting, you feel like you have this script that you want to Mhmm. In essence, kinda like follow to create this perfect child. You know? You wanna give them x, y, and z. Mhmm.
Dema Esper:And sometimes I think the pressure of trying to create anything needs to first be removed and to know that I wasn't the same. We are not the same before Mhmm. Or after. And you are challenged with, you know, multiple other responsibilities. And so I think just being real to yourself to know what you are capable of doing and lessening the guilt because the guilt doesn't serve anything.
Dema Esper:Guilt only makes yeah. It only makes the situation feel like you're coming up short.
Dr. Rick Esper:Guilt doesn't come from Christ.
Dema Esper:No. He he wants us to use those moments of teaching moments to say to your children, you know, this is all I can offer you on this day And be okay that that's the best you can offer in those moments with them.
Dr. Rick Esper:Nothing wrong with sitting down with your kid and saying, okay. You know what? Things are rough. And this happened, and here's how this affected me. And here's how this affected your mom.
Dr. Rick Esper:And, I'm feeling this about it, and I wanna try to make I wanna try to deal with it in this way.
Dema Esper:And and I think bringing the family into it so that you all can have kind of like a a presence of God in in your family, but be real. Like, we used to come up with sometimes in the year, like, what what's the word that's gonna get us through this year? You
Michelle Moujaes:know? Right.
Dema Esper:And I I think, like, just using those moments to say, okay. Yeah. This is tough time, but what are we gonna use, you know, to help us fuel it to get better from this? And then just recognizing that, you know, you you're given the day, you do the best with it, and then you cross yourself at the end of it, and you work with your children accordingly. You know?
Dema Esper:Don't think too far ahead. Just work with what you have and the gifts you've been given in the moment and share them in a joyful way. Use joy more than guilt.
Dr. Rick Esper:I read in a book that, you know, it's not a good idea. It's probably better instead of saying, god, remove this from me, ask him for the strength to make it through. Ask him for the strength to bear it. Not take it away from me. Ask for the strength to bear it.
Michelle Moujaes:I like that. Well, I have to tell you, I love how you have used something really hard and you've taken the slow work of transformation because that is slow work, but you've really, used it not only to the glory of God, but for the betterment of the people around you, including myself. I think you've really, what I what I feel so encouraged about is not just, transforming those own my own suffering or the things in my own life or in my children's life or in my husband's life or our friend's life that are difficult to transform them and use them for the glory of God, but also you you bring to mind this important need in community life. And everything that Faith Tree is about is driving people back to the local parish where we can be together the body of Christ. And what I love about your story is not only have you used it and transformed suffering so that you as a family and as a married couple and as individuals can use something hard to glorify God.
Michelle Moujaes:But it's a reminder to me of how important it is in community life that we tap in with other people and we make sure that we co suffer alongside those people in our communities, which means you have to know them. We have to be in relationship with the people in our churches. And not only does that allow us to pray for them, but it allows us to meet physical needs and to walk with people who may just need a little bit of encouragement on a day.
Dema Esper:I think something to keep in mind, like, putting your children into the activities of of what the our archdiocese has. You know, it's one thing that we've been gifted with all of these beautiful camps that you can do. But taking, you know, the camp life and bringing it back to your parish life, you know, putting them through their school, Sunday school activities, putting them through, you know, the teen soy years, working through those programs that are offered. And I think that's really was helpful is that we kept trying to feed them, you know, the the gifts that the our archdiocese has, the programs they have. When they, you know, were ready to merge into college years, we, you know, had them use Arch Week, which was just a foundational program to help them gear them ready for, you know, leaving from their home into their college years.
Dema Esper:And it's just feeding them, I think that is so important. The other thing I was so grateful for is because the children were younger and we had this beautiful church community, and they were there witnessing and helping us rear our children along the side of our family. So I think having not only your immediate families, you know, your sisters and your brothers and your sister in laws and all of them kinda rallying around your children, your church community is just that other layer of love and hug that they need. Keep in mind, a lot of times we want our children to be immersed in their school activities, and those are important. But remember, like, they can't take the soccer team with them.
Dema Esper:They can't take the swim team with them. You know? Eventually, those are great people that help them in those moments, but they take their church friends with them now throughout their life.
Michelle Moujaes:I think we'll leave it right there.
Dema Esper:Thank you so much.
Michelle Moujaes:Thank you for your time. We love you.
Dr. Rick Esper:Thank you for having so
Michelle Moujaes:much from you, and, we can't wait until we can have the next conversation.
Dr. Rick Esper:Very nice.
Dema Esper:That's good.
Michelle Moujaes:Thank you. Okay.
Dr. Rick Esper:Thank you.
Michelle Moujaes:God bless you guys and keep you. Thank you. Rick and Dima, thank you both so much for being here with us today and for trusting us with your story. What you've shared is not just a testimony of suffering, but of faith that stayed even when the answers didn't come in the ways you thought they would. For those listening, I just wanna remind you, and actually, I really just wanna remind myself.
Michelle Moujaes:If you ever find yourself right in the middle of the storm, which we all have or at least we all will at some point, please know this, we aren't weak for struggling. We aren't faithless for mourning the life we thought we'd have and God is not distant from us in any of it. In the Orthodox tradition, we believe that Christ does not stand outside of our suffering. He actually enters into it with us. And sometimes it's there that we come to know him most intimately.
Michelle Moujaes:Thank you all for listening. May God grant all of you patience and courage and trust, and may we learn to see even the hardest roads as places where grace is quietly at work. I'll see you all next time.