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The GGJ Podcast brings the spirit of Global Game Jam to your headphones, with people from around the world sharing how they found their way into game development. Each week, Susan Gold talks with developers, studio founders, and festival organizers about the twists, risks, and side doors that shaped their paths and communities. You will hear honest stories about creativity, collaboration, failure, and the messy, beautiful reality of making games.
GGJPodcastEp3Limpho
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Intro
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[00:00:07] Susan Gold: This is the GGJ Podcast, a show about the games industry, the people who make them, and the communities that grow up around them. I'm Susan Gold, a game education Trailblazer and one of the founders of the Global Game Jam. Each week we sit down with a new guest. Highlighting their own path and journey.
[00:00:24] This is a space for honest conversation from makers about creativity, collaboration. Failure and the messy, the beautiful reality of making games. So whether you're a young dev or seasoned an educator, a student, or someone who just loves games and the people behind them, welcome to the GGJ Podcast. Take a breath, settle in, and let's hear directly from the makers themselves.
Sponsors and Partners
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[00:00:48]
[00:00:48] Shirley McPhaul: This episode is made possible in partnership with the Global Game Jam, the world's largest game creation event, bringing together creators from around the globe. A big thank you as well to the Global Game Jam's. Headline sponsors, Epic [00:01:00] Games, Games for Change, and Xsolla for helping make this creative community a reality.
[00:01:05] To learn more and to get involved in the upcoming jams, visit global game jam.org.
[00:01:12] This episode is brought to you in part through the support of the University of Miami School of Communication, and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. Their commitment to storytelling, media innovation and community engagement help make conversations like these possible.
[00:01:29]
Meet Limpho Moeti
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[00:01:36] Susan Gold: Limpho Moeti is one of the leading voices in South African game industry, known for her work as a producer, business developer, a community organizer, and now the chair of the IGDA; the first chair from the global south. She has worked with some of South Africa's most celebrated studios. Limpho has also helped create and runan independent games festival for [00:02:00] games and playful media. in Cape Town, called Playtopia. and she speaks around the world about representation, inclusivity, business development, and making industry safer and more sustainable. Her work sits at the intersection of creativity and community and advocacy, and she's a consistent champion for developers across Africa and all of the other underrepresented regions.
[00:02:24] It's a pleasure to have you, and thank you for joining the GGJ Podcast and bringing your experience, your leadership, and your community to this conversation.
[00:02:34] Limpho Moeti: Thank you so, so much. That is an incredible introduction. I, I feel very honored. I will say though, I started at Free Lives, I think after Broforce had been released. so I was there while they were working on Gorn and Genital Jousting, which is a much harder game to talk about because it, it, it includes very floppy flacid, [00:03:00] pastel penises.
[00:03:05] I also was with Nyamakop I think I started after Semblance had been released, but I worked on Relooted with them, so I was the biz dev who helped get the game signed with the publisher that we cannot name, and sort of helping
The Connector Mindset
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[00:03:22] Susan Gold: You are a facilitator. that's how I see you. You make things happen. You make things happen for games. You make things happen for people. You bring people together.
[00:03:33] Limpho Moeti: Yeah. That's, that's always what I try to do. I think that's one of the things I'm deeply passionate about when it comes to games, is really helping connect people to other people who could help their game. Whether through, whether that's funding, whether that's talent, and like who you wanna work with on your game.
[00:03:51] I've just really enjoyed being able to connect to people and connect people with each other that I think would work well together.
The “Hunger” for Non-Western Stories; Advocating for African Games
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Where's Limpho? and Conference talk (Most likely remove)
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[00:03:59] Susan Gold: Now that [00:04:00] you're on the IGDA board, do you feel like you are the person that has to introduce everybody to African games? Is that like what you feel you're most associated with right now?
[00:04:12] Limpho Moeti: Yes, sometimes, but I think I've, throughout, throughout my, my career in games, I've always felt that way. I've always felt really proud and excited of the scene that, that has that existence. South Africa, I mean, we've got studios that have done really incredible things. So, Nyamakop for example, was the first studio on the continent of Africa to get any game on any Nintendo console ever, which is, you know, very exciting. It's, it's very pioneering. I think Free Lives had games that sold like over a million copies, which is Broforce really also pioneering, making fun games in VR and fun games about the flacid, pastel penises.
[00:04:59] so I've always [00:05:00] felt a drive less to represent South Africa and more to be an advocate for South Africa and to be an advocate for games and game development outside of North America and Europe. I've always felt like there's a clear hunger for games that come from different backgrounds. 'Cause I think it just gives us an opportunity for new paradigms of telling stories, right? most stories can fit to like seven story archetypes, but it's always interesting to see how those archetypes and those genres are bent and played with, what comes about it from a different perspective, from a different continent, how do we look at games and, and how does that impact the kind of games we play? And I've always find found that like really exciting, really fascinating. So like being head of the IGDA feels like an exciting opportunity to. Really let more people into a fast moving, uh, kind [00:06:00] of frenetic, is that a good word?
[00:06:04] Frantic industry.
[00:06:05] Um, I don't know if that answers the question.
[00:06:08] Susan Gold: No, no, it does. It does. I'm sorry. I caught you off guard with a question, so I really appreciate you.
[00:06:13] It's a good
[00:06:14] Limpho Moeti: question though,
[00:06:14] Susan Gold: being able to wing in on that. when I look at games, I see so much of the same stuff over and over and over again. So new voices, new fresh blood, new ideas, different approaches, new sounds, new visuals.
[00:06:33] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:06:34] Susan Gold: All those things are. Exciting for me.
[00:06:36] Limpho Moeti: They're very,
[00:06:37] Susan Gold: yeah,
[00:06:37] Limpho Moeti: they're very exciting
[00:06:39] Susan Gold: and it's so untapped.
[00:06:41]
[00:06:41] Limpho Moeti: Yeah, I think so. And I, I also feel like we're, we're, we're at a moment in time where I think I'm gonna use the, the very broad descrip of the West, uh, is, is actually quite interested in hearing authentic stories [00:07:00] from different places.
[00:07:01] Is is seeing stories told by people from those places? Right. Because it's just, it's a new, it's a new perspective. It's an opportunity to, to have a different experience and to see how. You know, ideas and, and genres are bent and changed and broken and rebuilt from different places, and I think especially with the internet and how we're all so easily connected and so quickly connected, it also allows a level of authenticity of getting to really understand different countries, different places, different cultures.
[00:07:39] I think there, uh, I think that they get clips and bits and pieces through social media.
[00:07:46] Yeah.
[00:07:47] Susan Gold: And that gives them a taste and then they kind of get them hooked.
[00:07:52] Limpho Moeti: Yeah. It's, it sparks curiosity and I think there's, there's nothing more human than being curious about [00:08:00] others being curious about different ways of being in different modes of existing and games particularly are, are a great vehicle for that.
[00:08:09] it's, it's one of the many reasons I love video games.
Breaking into Games
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[00:08:12] Susan Gold: Now, it's interesting that you didn't start in games. how did you break in and, and what brought you into games?
[00:08:21] Limpho Moeti: Yeah, so, I started, I studied, theater, my first year of university, uh, read a book called The Art of Being Subversive. Is that correct or, uh, no, it was film as a subversive art. So I, I sort of went from theater into film screenwriting. and while I was studying, I, I worked for a production company, I had a partner, and it didn't really work out. And I decided to move to Cape Town. I was very lucky. I worked in comic books beforehand, so I worked at a comic bookstore for a long time. and I was, I was quite enmeshed in theater and art scene in Joburg. [00:09:00] And so through one of my connections, I got a great opportunity to work as a PA at Free Lives.
[00:09:06] I took it, I moved to Cape Town within like a month and three suitcases. I started working at Free Lives, started organizing game Jams, helping organize the monthly meetups, and it was like finding my other half. It, it really felt like oh, this is where I'm meant to be.
[00:09:24] Susan Gold: I know that feeling, I do.
[00:09:25] Limpho Moeti: Yeah,
[00:09:26] Susan Gold: it's kind of nice. You could be seven. It's very nice, tall, Mohawk wearing a polka dot dress and you're still, as long as you do the work and you do it well, you're welcome.
[00:09:38] Limpho Moeti: Yeah, you're welcome. And I think that that was, that was a really incredible experience for me. And as someone who's always loved storytelling, like whether it. How you tell a story through music or theater or film or video games, that's always fascinated me to no end. And it really feels like video games are that new [00:10:00] frontier. They're the new way of, of telling a story, of really connecting with humans because you're not just witnessing something, you're actively doing it. Right. you're act you're an active participant in the story. And, and I've always loved that about games, even games that have no story.
Barriers in the African Video Games Industry
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[00:10:17] Susan Gold: Now it's. It, it, it's hard to ask this question, but at the same time for, for myself, I don't know, South Africans game space, what's it like? What are the barriers there and why we're not seeing more of these games coming out of South Africa or Africa as the,
[00:10:40] Limpho Moeti: as a continent?
[00:10:41] Yes. So, so one of the big, so there are a couple of big challenges, right? I think for South Africa particularly, it's, it's very structural. So it's a question of who has access to the tools necessary to make games. South Africa very recently came out of a, of [00:11:00] a, ooh, a, an undemocratic racist regime about 30 years ago.
[00:11:05] And so you still have a country where the majority. Of middle to upper middle class people tend to be white. Um, the black middle class is still growing, but that means that there are a lot of consequences that come from recently, rebuilding a new democracy. So a lot of people in South Africa don't have access to computers or game development programs. A lot of people don't have access to internet necessarily through computers. So one of those big factors is game development doesn't really exist or isn't well known as a career path that you could take. the industry has been around now for about like 20, not 20, probably like 30, 35 years, which means it's still very small. it tends to be very white, like nowadays. The last five years have, have really changed [00:12:00] things, but they're still. A lot of upfront cost that goes into game development that most people can't afford even if you are, you know, someone who's middle class. So that's one of the big barriers.
[00:12:13] I think the second barrier that comes in, and this is a barrier that impacts not just South Africa, but the continent largely, is for a long time a lot of the, where the money was, where, you know, where the funding came from, where the investment came from, weren't interested in the continent, they weren't interested in doing research on the continent, they weren't interested in gathering information about the continent. So for a long time we didn't even have Google data centers here until like very recently, I think maybe like 5, 6, 7 years ago. like Steam wasn't really taking in much information about the continent, and so there's still a lot of gaps of understanding of the continent, of what the market looks like, of which, devices are people using more often than not, [00:13:00] particularly for PC and console gaming, which aren't as big because there are a lot of barriers that make it quite expensive.
[00:13:06] So for example, I have a PS5, I got two controllers. I got a little charger and some headphones, and the total cost was around 20,000 rand, which is what most people would earn in a month. And so there's like this huge cost. I mean, I think that probably works out to around like $600 maybe, maybe like close to seven
[00:13:31] On the other hand, we've got a very thriving mobile industry in South Africa and on the continent at large.
[00:13:37] But then there's another problem, which is that depending on where you are on the continent, right, like the continent is huge. So particularly I think it's central, and I could be wrong, so I think it's like Central East, somewhat further up like north. North Africa, A lot of people don't have bank accounts a lot of people, the way they pay for things is using their phone or mobile [00:14:00] credits, which isn't what you see in a lot of other places. So there's also a struggle with like, monetizing the continent. So all of these things sort of lead to this place where even though you have great games coming out of the continent, or great developers coming out of the continent, and games that may even be somewhat successful, as you know, as we have with Free Lives, as we have with Nyamakop, it still wouldn't be known that like, Hey, these are South African developers. Hey, these are, African devs. Because there's still that gap to overcome and a lot of it is just money.
[00:14:35] so those have been some of the barriers that have really, I think, hampered South Africa and other African nations as well.
[00:14:43] I always try and be like very. Specific
[00:14:46] Susan Gold: diplomatic
[00:14:47] Limpho Moeti: because, well, diplomatic. Yes, because, you know, part of it is also just like not having enough governmental support in terms of creating a thriving industry. Because yes, video games are tech, but they're [00:15:00] also creative. they're, they're probably closer to film than they are to, software as a service necessarily.
[00:15:08] Um,
[00:15:09] Susan Gold: exactly. I,
[00:15:11] Limpho Moeti: and so
[00:15:11] Susan Gold: now I know there are programs in South Africa now. Yeah. When Global Game Jam started in 2009, I believe that was like one of my biggest goals was to get African schools to participate. It was very hard because there weren't as many programs, like you said.
[00:15:29] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:15:30] Susan Gold: But additionally, they didn't know where it would go.
[00:15:33] Right. And I think that. Providing opportunities and seeding the way are one way. But what are ways you are doing to help grow South Africa and Africa, the continent, in, in that way? Do you want to be that spokesperson for African games?
Mission, Ubuntu & Leadership
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[00:15:57] Limpho Moeti: Uh, [00:16:00] no.
[00:16:02] I think it's, it's tricky because, you know, I could speak with authority and with understanding of the South African games industry because it's the industry I've been embedded in for so long. But, you know, each country is so different.
[00:16:15] Susan Gold: You don't wanna be like, for example, in France talking about like the French games industry and be like, and that's why I'm a spokesperson for the entire Europe,I hear you. I hear you.
[00:16:24] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:16:25] Susan Gold: But you do have leadership roles that others don't. You have a platform that others don't and therefore I think that you see the global experience
[00:16:37] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:16:38] Susan Gold: In a different way by coming from that continent. But also you see how there are so many different things that need to happen.
[00:16:48] Are you doing things to help facilitate that?
[00:16:50] Limpho Moeti: Uh, I would like to think so, but I think in my more egotistical terms where it's just like, just existing on a global stage is how I help. but I [00:17:00] think it's more like, uh. With the opportunities I've been given, just trying to advocate, not just for Africa, but for the global South. I think I feel a strong connection in understanding, hey, here are some very similar barriers that we share. You know, And so a lot of the work is also just not just talking about our struggles and our successes, but also convincing people, Hey, it's worthwhile to invest in South Africa in the gaming industry in Africa. Like how do we. Create more opportunities for people from the continent, not just to work in games. Because, even before I started in the games industry, there have been people from South Africa working in games.
[00:17:44] But a lot of my advocacy has just been like, Hey, how do I, how do I help? How do I connect people? How do I either entice people to come to South Africa so that they can see what's going on here and get them excited? Or how do I help bridge that gap? what [00:18:00] work needs to be done to say, for example, get our government to come to the table? What work needs to be done to get publishers to really have a look at the games we're creating? How do I get people mentorship and connections? How do I really help those who maybe don't have as much access as others? Into these spaces and how do I create an industry or help create an industry that is sustainable? Where juniors, you know, where people coming out of university have places that they can work.
[00:18:31] you know? How do we create different ways of beingUm, and, and so it becomes question of outside of indie games, like how do we create support or training for service work within video games, third party work. What would be necessary? how do we build relationships with people who are making mobile games, though, nine years in the industry, still don't understand the mobile game space. It still, still does not make sense to me, but it did.
[00:18:58] Susan Gold: Yeah. But one of the [00:19:00] things that I, I'm finding very interesting, and some of the things that you're saying is that all of this, all of these challenges and things that you are seeing in industry and talking to people, you are out there, you've put yourself out there to be that beacon of transmitting information, sharing that kind of, this is what's happening in this space, this is how we're growing. And, and you've created Playtopia, or you were one of the co-founders of Playtopia.
[00:19:32] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:19:33] Susan Gold: And then you've taken on leadership roles. All of these experience have had a profound effect on the community that you're in. And, and it's also had an effect on the global community as well. And those are all. Your advocacy and your ability to speak out for people are tremendous, and I wanna thank you for that.
[00:19:54] Limpho Moeti: Thank you. I mean, I always try and remind myself that I'm one of many, right? That there's this [00:20:00] concept in South, in South Africa called Ubuntu. I am because you are and we are. So, it's a very communal way of thinking. It's very much I've become who I am as a person because of the people around me, because of the community around me and how that's shaped me. And so it's always about giving back to the community because you always gain something from community. And so that's, that's always stuck with me in games. you know, when when I started there, there weren't a lot of black people in games. There weren't a lot of black women in games. Uh, we used to joke that there were quite literally more white guys named Ben in the South African gaming industry than black women. Um, it's insane. It's it's wild. It's wild. And so, for me it's always been about like setting the scene I am. A really cool person. I've, I've done incredible things, but, I'm not even the most talented black woman in my family. So I've always known that there are very talented people of color who just needed the right [00:21:00] opportunity, who, needed that little extra push who needed help coming from a games adjacent industry into games.
[00:21:08] And it's always felt like, a privilege and at, at a punishment to sort of be on the forefront in that way and be able to create space for more people like me, for people who look like me to be in the space and create incredible things. and it's really. Exciting to see how many people have sort of come up after me and done even more incredible things. And to see how a lot of what I could do is also because of the privilege I had for working for a company like Free Lives, for working for like a place like Nyamakop, um, because on the one hand they had also done a lot of, I wanna say, foundational work in a lot of ways, both in terms of like just getting our names out there by having hit games, by being the first in a lot of ways. And at the same time allowing at least me the opportunity to [00:22:00] gain a much deeper understanding of the industry by being able to go to events, you know, because a company could pay for it. And really understanding how pivotal that is and being able to take that information and try and pass it along back here, or use those connections and opportunities to be more of an advocate on a global stage to really push for the growth of the industry. And I always try and say, not because it's the right thing to do, which it is, but because it's a wealth of talent and creativity that is looking for the right audience. And I know the audience is out there looking for these games, looking for these experiences, whether they're very distinctly African games um, or it's, you know, games that maybe aren't as distinctly African. It's just being like, Hey, there's this wealth of creativity on the rest of the planet. How do we, how do we get that in front of people? How do we get the people interested to look at it? how do we make games in such a way that the [00:23:00] people who win are the consumers and the game developers, and maybe not so much the shareholders, but I guess that's a, that's a, that's a different podcast.
Kindness and Community
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[00:23:10] Limpho Moeti: your Global Game Jam keynote focused a lot on kindness and collaboration, and that is definitely apparent in everything you're saying. And, and home is also something that you build. Why are those ideas so central to you? Yeah, I think they're very central to me.
[00:23:27] You know, as I've said, partially 'cause of 'cause of how I grew up in South Africa, but also because one of the things that we have in South Africa that is really exceptional is we have a very communal games industry where there's like healthy amounts of competition. But if somebody else wins, we're winning. If somebody does well, we're all doing well. It's a community where people work together. There's a lot of feedback, a lot of game jams, a lot of helping each other out and really creating spaces to connect. And so I've also seen the [00:24:00] benefit of this very communal or community based industry, and how much that benefits everybody involved, how much it helps people grow and, and just how much you kind of need it in game dev because yeah, you get some solo devs, but like, nobody's an island. Nobody does everything entirely by themselves. And if they do, it's, it's at significant costs sometimes. But I don't wanna speak for solo devs. and so I've just, I've seen how positively that impacts developers. I can see how that translates into the kinds of games you get. So I always try and lead with that. I think that allows us to keep a certain level of hope and optimism for the industry because it's, it's a, it's a way of being that isn't hyper fixated on just, you know, being number one, winning at all costs, but rather going, how do we all win? How do we create win-win situations? How do we create win-win [00:25:00] conditions? and I found that to be very beneficial and have a great impact on people. I think that's why a lot of people like me that, and I'm hilarious.
Mentors
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[00:25:11] Limpho Moeti: But does that come naturally to you or did you have mentors or peers that helped you along the way and did they teach you something or was this just inherent in your nature? So, I mean, there, there have been a few people that have helped me along the way. Um, I have some international mentors. I did have some mentors locally and Collaborators that have also helped shape this. I think Nyamakop was definitely one of those spaces that was very foundational. 'cause when I started working there, it was me, it was like the one founder and a programmer. And we sort of grew from that to like 20 something people over the course of three years.
[00:25:51] And I, I grew a substantial amount and got a lot of understanding of the business side of games, but [00:26:00] also the collaborative nature of production and business development through that of. Through Free Lives. I, I really just got how to be creative and a little bit crazy and to just believe that anything could happen.
[00:26:14] I think in terms of my more community oriented stuff, it was definitely working with Free Lives, really doing the Game Jams. It also helped build this understanding and helped me get a clear-eyed view on like how transformation, could be done and why it was necessary.
[00:26:32] So I think the, the communal part is probably a lot from how I was raised. I had a lot of siblings. I, I worked in a comic bookstore for a long time and I realized what I loved about the comic books was being able to talk about it with my friends and being able to share it. And that excitement of like, oh, there's this cool thing that you would enjoy. Here it is, oh, there's this great book that a little change the way you, you view this character can read. You know, with [00:27:00] theater, it's also very much a communal space because you have to trust the people you're on stage with or the people behind the scenes to really get everything together. And so that's, that's just kind of stuck with me. And I think it's also just true of video games. Generally,
[00:27:18] Susan Gold: you're as a leader and probably mentoring people around. Not just South Africa, but around the continent.
[00:27:26] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
Belonging and Confidence
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[00:27:27] Susan Gold: What advice do you like to give people? What habits, what, what things that make your life easier Do you try to share and distill down,
[00:27:37] Limpho Moeti: save up for therapy?
[00:27:39] No, I think one of the things I always like to distill down, it's, it's something that I sort of carry across with myself is I always tell people, don't expect to be welcomed into a space because that space is already where you belong. you should always move within spaces as though they're your own. 'Cause they are, there's, [00:28:00] there's no one to really welcome you into spaces that you should just exist in spaces because you deserve to exist in spaces. Right. That's something that I've really kept with me and I think that has done well for me is I was able to go, was it my first year of games? Be like, yeah, I'll give a talk on the games industry. I've been here for like 10 minutes because One who's gonna stop me? I think I always tell people to, to have confidence in themselves, to trust themselves and to be as self-aware as you possibly can be. I tell people a lot to, find your people, find your people who will value you, who will understand you, who will cheer for you.
[00:28:37] Um, one of the big things I always tell people is to read a lot, is to play a lot of games. and to try things out. Like I did production for a while. I did. I was a PA in the beginning. I do biz dev, I do leadership work, I do panels, I do talks, I do all sorts of things because it's always good to not only find a space that suits you, but that you are [00:29:00] passionate about. I always try and tell people that. Yes, things are gonna be hard, things are gonna be very hard. That it'll always pay off if you have a good crew of people around you and rolling with the punches seems to be the best way to go about it, you have to be very flexible. 'cause things, things turn on a dime. Things change very quickly. and having that flexibility, being able to problem solve and expecting things to not go to plan tends to be some of the strongest advice I can give. and just have faith in yourself. you have to be your own biggest champion, and move through the space like you own it. 'Cause it's, it is yours, it is your space.
Why Lead and Advocate; Building a Safer Industry
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[00:29:40] Susan Gold: I love that.
[00:29:41] Now that you are a part of leadership in the games industry.
[00:29:47] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:29:48] Susan Gold: what drove you to take on a leadership responsibility and what weighs heaviest on you, and then what gives you more excitement?
[00:29:58] Limpho Moeti: I think [00:30:00] I, I tend to be a person that like notices, inefficiencies, or spaces that aren't right, that could, you know, be improved or in my own estimation, or to be changed or to be improved in particular ways.
[00:30:15] and I, I realized that if, if I wanted those things to happen, if I wanted those changes to occur, I'd have to do it myself. Whether that was through advocacy or, you know, the kind of places that I've worked, I, I realized that. Nobody else was gonna make those changes. nobody else was going to point out the elephant in the room. And so I just kind of took it upon myself. I was like, well, if no one's gonna do it, I'll do it. because I understood that like being someone very outspoken and in a position of leadership and sort of getting onto the global stage has its drawbacks and has its difficulties. And so if I wanted things to be easier for the people [00:31:00] who were coming after me, if I wanted to see those changes, I just kind of needed to do it myself. 'cause, you know, nobody else would, Um, and that's really what drove me is like, I, I wanted things to be improved. I, I wanted things to be better, not just for myself or women of color or black people, but for developers for my industry at large. And well, if someone's gonna do the work, it, it may as well be me. It may as well be me.
[00:31:30] Susan Gold: I like that attitude and I see that in other successful people as well, that if it's nobody else is gonna do it, then why not me?
[00:31:39] And I can do this
[00:31:41] Yeah, I, I always joked that I, I have the audacity of a mediocre white man, and so and so. I was like, Hey, if they can do it, I could do this. I may as well just be like, yeah, I could do this.
[00:31:59] Limpho Moeti: And then [00:32:00] sometimes that was very successful and I did,
[00:32:03] Susan Gold: Um, and sometimes I've been wrong. But, you know, it's also, it's also worked out really well for me. Um,
[00:32:11] it's okay. We figure our way outta trouble. Um,
[00:32:13] Limpho Moeti: yeah. I'm the youngest and on my mother's side, I was the only girl for a long time. So, you know, I'm, I'm a little bit crazy. I, I believe I can do anything and if not, someone will catch me when I fail,
[00:32:25] Susan Gold: Well, you talk about wanting to make the industry safer and more welcoming.
[00:32:30] Yeah. What does safer, more caring games ecosystem really look like?
[00:32:35] Limpho Moeti: Um, on the one hand it looks like an industry that has more money so people can prototype and fail and not worry about being homeless. it, it looks like an industry that actively creates spaces that are welcoming for those that maybe aren't perceived as the societal norm, whether that's straightness or being dude, or being white [00:33:00] or being able bodied, right?
[00:33:01] It's about creating spaces where those barriers are removed and you can easily or easier move through the industry and do the work that you're passionate about and that you're good at I think it looks like an industry. That while understanding that yes, we, we do live in a dystopian capitalist HellScape actively takes care of their developers, takes care of your ops and admin and biz dev people that cares about the consumer. That is less about extracting as much money as possible and more about, allowing the whole spectrum of games to exist. Whether that's massive AAA studios being able to make $200 million games without crunch. where everybody is credited, where the work is fairly compensated.
[00:33:55] To you know, your small solo or two person or three person dev [00:34:00] studios where you have a healthy work environment, where you can focus on making the games where, you know, you're not pushing yourself too hard and, and burning out it's spaces where you don't have to worry about like covering your drink or being safe at industry events.
[00:34:18] It's, it's the kind of industry that is, that is welcoming to all.
[00:34:22] I think that's, that's what I think about a lot how do I help create a space whereby, you know, you can, you could, you could live a regular life or you can live the fun, rockstar indie life, but
[00:34:36] Susan Gold: well,
[00:34:36] I would just hope that people wanna make a living.
[00:34:39] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:34:39] Susan Gold: I mean, yeah, everybody wants to be a rock star for a minute, but keeping that up is really hard.
[00:34:45] Limpho Moeti: It's
[00:34:46] Susan Gold: very, making a living in being able to have a home and to be able to know that you can pay your mortgage or Yeah, you can take care of your children or your pet
[00:34:54] Limpho Moeti: Exactly.
[00:34:55] Susan Gold: Whatever it is, I think is extremely comforting. [00:35:00] And to know that you're not gonna have to go through crunch and that kind of thing, those are all aspirational types of lives, sadly. Currently our industry doesn't like to,
[00:35:13] Limpho Moeti: it's on free fall
[00:35:14] Susan Gold: think about safer it seems.
[00:35:16] Limpho Moeti: No. Um, and I think, it's, it's something that's endemic to most industries, whether the creative or not, is that when maximizing shareholder's profit. Is the main goal or maximizing profit at any cost is the goal. You're going to inevitably end up in situations where, not all the time, but a lot of the time, the consumers aren't getting the best possible product where innovation isn't really happening because that's not what's going to earn you the most money, where you're going to extract as much as you possibly can from your workers Because that's, that's the nature of capitalism. when profit is the exponential growth, right? Profit [00:36:00] and exponential growth are, are the number one drivers. All of the other stuff, whether it's work life balance, taking care of your employees, having happy, fulfilled, consumers are all gonna take a backseat because those aren't the things that are going to earn you the most money. And, you know, as part of an industry, there's not, there's not a lot we can do about that.
[00:36:21] Um, but I think in how we make games in how we move with intentionality throughout the industry, we can improve things. We can create positive feedback loops that'll feed off each other and sort of spread in the same way a lot of these negative and unhealthy feedback loops have spread over the last five, 10 years. It's very easy for it to go in the opposite direction as well. We just have to want to, and have to be willing to do that work.
[00:36:55] Susan Gold: Absolutely.
The Future
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[00:36:56] Susan Gold: And you talk about the future, we're gonna move into your future a [00:37:00] little bit.
[00:37:00] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:37:00] Susan Gold: And you know, thinking about how emerging technologies, including AI could help or harm communities, especially the ones you care about that are, you know, underrepresented and underserved and don't have access like we spoke about.
[00:37:18] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:37:18] Susan Gold: What do you see the future for South Africa and the African continent? What do you think technology is going to be? Friend or foe?
[00:37:28] Limpho Moeti: Um, you know, I think technology will be friend and foe. as a, as a bisexual, I never like to choose between two options when you can just have both, have all the options. so I think technology can be a friend and it can be a fo I will say AI as it's, as, as it's being driven forward currently is more of a foe than a friend. I think that there are a lot of interesting use cases for, for AI to make life easier for [00:38:00] artists, for programmers, even for doing administrative work.
[00:38:05] But the way it's being done currently. Means that it isn't that and is rather being pushed as something to replace humans, which of course It's going to have a negative impact, particularly for the people I've been talking a lot about, which is the youth. you know, juniors we're seeing now that a lot of junior positions and junior roles are being made redundant, not just in games, but in multiple industries, sort of having ai, taking those roles, taking those places, creating those efficiencies so those aren't needed. and that can only have a long term negative effect because,you need more young people coming into your industry. If you want your industry to survive for longer than 15 years,Yeah.
[00:38:47] Susan Gold: In my mind. You're either in charge of the tool or the tool is in charge of you, in charge of one of the two.
[00:38:56] You know, and I am one of those [00:39:00] that I love the tools and if they can help me organize and put things together, that's great, but it's not gonna come up with a novel idea. And that games are very dependent on, otherwise we're just playing the same game over and over, which, you know, is already bad enough that, that we do.
[00:39:21] Limpho Moeti: To be honest, I think like for the African continent, the future is really bright. I think our continent's has the youngest people, it's gonna have like the majority of young people coming up soon. I think that as the world changes and shifts, there's just a lot more opportunity for technology to be a helper, to be part of the process. And it's, it's clear that as, as the world is changing, it feels like South Africa and a lot of the African continent is very forward facing, very much. This is where we've come from, this is where we are, what could we be in future, where could we go in future and is looking [00:40:00] forward, whereas I think other parts of the world, the West tends to like look to the past and feel as though their best days are behind them. Whereas for us, our, our best days are coming. Our best days are ahead of us.
[00:40:17] Susan Gold: I love that
[00:40:18] Limpho Moeti: that might get me trouble
[00:40:19] Susan Gold: attitude also. It doesn't, it doesn't even matter. It's just that is how it, that's a great feeling. We,
[00:40:27] Limpho Moeti: yeah,
[00:40:27] Susan Gold: my best is yet to come. And that's a really positive message. that's a good first step as to be honest, like I have a future ahead of me. And, and like you said, it's feel like you belong. 'cause you already do.
Key Take Aways
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[00:40:47] Susan Gold: That's really beautiful. if you had a moment to think about what listeners should take away from this conversation, if they were to say, what's my big [00:41:00] takeaway?
[00:41:00] Limpho Moeti: have the audacity of a mediocre white man.
[00:41:05] That is, that is my biggest takeaway. No, um, I think my, my biggest takeaway genuinely is, the world is in a bad state right now and things are scary, but just as quickly as things degraded and fell apart, they can be put back together and, we can turn the ship around. we haven't hit the iceberg yet. we can change course, but it has to be a conscious effort. It has to be something that you're not waiting for someone to do for you, but something you do for yourself. and that isn't to say that, like whatever struggles are your fault, but rather your life is your responsibility. And the only one who could change it is yourself.
[00:41:46] There will be barriers and it'll be difficult and sometimes it won't work out. And that's okay. As long as you never give up on yourself. As long as you never give up on being true to yourself and knowing yourself very well, I think, and [00:42:00] really doing the work of, of learning and growing and taking whatever opportunities that you can.
[00:42:06] the other thing is Find your people. Find people who will uplift you, who will value you and who'll call you on your bullshit when you need to be called on your bullshit.
[00:42:16] Susan Gold: that's a beautiful thing.
[00:42:16] Limpho Moeti: Yeah. That's, that's what I hope people take away from this.
[00:42:19] Make, make great games that make you happy.
[00:42:23] Susan Gold: But also I think one of the things you're saying is that you don't get there by yourself. You have to be a part of a community.
[00:42:33] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:42:33] Susan Gold: And I think that's a really important nail to drive home is that we are. Made up of not just one person making a game. That collaboration between all of us and amongst cultures is really important.
[00:42:51] I mean, in South Africa alone, you have multiple different kinds of cultures.
[00:42:55] Limpho Moeti: Yeah.
[00:42:55] Susan Gold: So finding a, a way to [00:43:00] collaborate amongst that is one obstacle. But then just knowing that your, your goal is to keep trying. Yeah. Every day is a new attempt and that it's not failure if you're not super successful, it's a failure if you don't try.
Where to find Limpho
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[00:43:19] Susan Gold: Before we leave, where can people find you, find your work, get involved with your communities, start initiatives with you? How do you have in touch with you?
[00:43:29] Limpho Moeti: They, they can get in touch with me, through the IGDA,
[00:43:32] I am on LinkedIn and I have a New Year's resolution to be more regularly on LinkedIn. So you can find me on LinkedIn, you can follow me on Instagram, but I, I promise you nothing, uh, unless I am traveling, So find me on LinkedIn. check out the IGDA, join, get a membership for yourself. it's an international organization. we have chapters all [00:44:00] over the world. The goal is creating communities, helping game developers, however we can, through advocacy, through special interest groups, through research, through just helping put community events on whether on, we do events online, in person, really just trying to be there as much as possible. There's a jobs board. We want to help keep people who've been laid off in the games industry, however we can. and, I know a lot of people don't like trade unions, but collective bargaining, having collective action is really important for making a change, and the IGDA is a great vehicle for that.
Thank you!
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[00:44:41] Susan Gold: I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with you today.
[00:44:44] Limpho Moeti: Thank you so much, Susan.
[00:44:45] Susan Gold: It's been wonderful and enlightening and exposed me to things I didn't understand or know about. South Africa and the continent in general. But I want to do everything I can to support young [00:45:00] developers in the region and if there's anything that I can do to help you, please know that I am 100% behind your goals and the things that you're doing. And I find you to be a most delightful person and I'm so glad that you take on leadership with such grace. And yes, I know that there are drawbacks to it. I've been there. You are doing an amazing job and thank you you so much,
[00:45:27] Limpho Moeti: Thank you guys.
[00:45:28]
[00:45:28] Shirley McPhaul: Want to get involved with the GGJ Podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Please send your ideas, suggestions, and questions to ggjpod@globalgamejam.org and tell us who you think we should be talking to next. What stories or issues matter most to you about the future of games, and help us highlight the people and practices that make a sustainable, creative life and games possible.
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