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When Fatih started his sticker business Stikkernet, his peers asked him, “You’re a developer; why don’t you write this from scratch?” His response? “Why should I?”
Today, I'm talking to my dear old friend Fatih Kadir Akın — or fka for short. We discuss his unexpected journey of building a successful business out of a simple idea. Fatih shares his experience with building Stikkernet and how he grew his audience through community building. We chat about the challenges of logistics when shipping internationally and how Fatih found solutions that worked so well it lead to an exit.
Today, I'm talking to my dear old friend Fatih Kadir Akın — or fka for short. We discuss his unexpected journey of building a successful business out of a simple idea. Fatih shares his experience with building Stikkernet and how he grew his audience through community building. We chat about the challenges of logistics when shipping internationally and how Fatih found solutions that worked so well it lead to an exit.
My new podcast project: Arvid & Tyler Catch Up / https://catchup.fm
The blog post: https://thebootstrappedfounder.com/fatih-kadir-akin-selling-a-global-sticker-business/
The podcast episode: https://share.transistor.fm/s/155fff77
You'll find my weekly article on my blog: https://thebootstrappedfounder.com
Newsletter: https://thebootstrappedfounder.com/newsletter
My book Zero to Sold: https://zerotosold.com/
My book The Embedded Entrepreneur: https://embeddedentrepreneur.com/
My course Find Your Following: https://findyourfollowing.com
This interview is sponsored by Acquire.com
- (00:00) - Introduction
- (02:51) - Stikkernet
- (10:05) - How Fatih became a sticker expert in Turkey
- (18:28) - The perfect product for community-based marketing.
- (29:02) - Sticker Mule
- (33:03) - What is developer relations?
- (38:17) - Do you still get to code?
- (41:52) - Community-building
- (47:54) - The pressure of starting a business.
Creators & Guests
What is The Bootstrapped Founder?
Arvid Kahl talks about starting and bootstrapping businesses, how to build an audience, and how to build in public.
Arvid Kahl: Hello and welcome to
The Bootstrapped Founder. Today,
I'm talking to my dear old
friend, Fatih Kadir Akin or FKA
for short. We discussed the
unexpected journey of building a
successful business out of a
simple idea. Fatih shares his
experience with building
Stikker.net and how he grew his
audience through community
building. And we chat about the
challenges of logistics when it
comes to shipping
internationally and how Fatih
found solutions that worked well
for him so that it led to an
exit. But before we dive in, let
me thank the sponsor for this
show. Imagine this: you're a
founder who's built a solid SaaS
product, acquire customers and
it's generating consistent
monthly revenue. The problem is
that you're not growing for
whatever reason, lack of focus
or lack of skill or just plain
lack of interest and you feel
stuck. So what should you do?
Well, the story I would like to
hear now is that you buckle down
and somehow reignited the fire.
You got past yourself in the
cliches and started to work on
the business rather than just in
the business. You started
building an audience and moved
out of your comfort zone and
sales and marketing. And in six
months, you've tripled your
revenue, that would be a great
story. But the reality is not as
simple. Situations may be
different for every founder
facing this particular kind of
challenge. But too many times
the story ends up being one of
inaction and stagnation until
that business becomes less
valuable or worse, worthless. If
you find yourself here or you
think your story is likely
headed down a similar road, I
offer you a third option.
Consider selling your business
on acquire.com. Capitalizing on
the value of your time is a
smart move and acquire.com is
free to list. They've helped
hundreds of founders already so
you would be in good company. Go
to acquire.com and see for
yourself if this is the right
option for you. And now, here's
Fatih. It's kind of weird,
right? Like we worked together
for a year or so. And back then
in San Francisco. And then,
like, we all like everybody
working at coding the company,
right? Had their own reasons why
they left or why they went away.
And then everybody kind of like
flew back to where they came
from. That was one of those
weird little things that I found
so notable, like, you went to
Turkey. I went back to Germany,
like everybody just went back
home in many ways. And that
thing back there. How was that
for you? Like for me, I just
went back home and after coding,
I just had a nap that lasted a
couple of months. I honestly I
really needed to relax. Because
it was so much. The work was so
much it was so intense. I was
burned out. And I just needed to
be home. How did you deal with
that? Were you similarly?
Fatih Kadir Akin: I remember
these days, actually, I was
working from Turkey remotely.
And I joined another company in
Turkey again. And I didn't
actually give a break. I
continued working. So then I
jumped from company to another.
And you know, as a front end
developer for a long time,
actually, I was doing front end
until last year that's how I
know how it's gone my site.
Meanwhile, I built a company
called Stikker.net. You already
know about it.
Arvid Kahl: I was excited about
this. Like,
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, I wanted
to see if I can do a business.
That's my main, you know,
motivation. I am a developer.
And I wonder if I can run a
business. That's all the story
actually. And you know, I was
doing some community stuff in
Turkey. I organized J Istanbul
community, which is a JavaScript
stumbled actually gathering all
the JavaScript developers
together and there we are doing
some meetups, etc. So we were
collecting stickers as every
developer do, you know and I saw
that actually we needed some
stickers and we had two options
in Turkey. Either you should buy
stickers from Sticker Mule which
located in United States or we
should go to local print shops.
So, ordering from Sticker Mule
is a bit expensive and we should
wait for the shipping. And it
was not really easy for us. And
if you ordered too frequently,
it will be held in you know the
customs because the customs
thinks you are importing things.
But you have to tell them. Then
we go to we went to actually
local print shops but they are
really low quality. And they
asked us to print 1000 or
something you know. I don't want
1000 stickers because I don't
need them in that much. So I
thought there is a you know,
space there for Turkey market.
Everyone is asking stickers,
every company's startups asking
for stickers. They're ordering
from Sticker Mule or doing. They
were going to have print shops.
So I thought I can do it. And I
created a, you know, WordPress
and WooCommerce site. It was the
easiest, you know, stack for me
to do. I didn't want to write
any code, by the way. Because I
want to try the business. I
didn't want to try if I can
write some ecommerce site or
something. Yeah, that's actually
how it started. And
Arvid Kahl: How did it end? How
did it end? Tell me about that.
No, honestly the thing that I'm
excited to hear about is like,
you know where it got you. But I
think, oh, it's already so cool
that you stopped yourself from
building yet another piece of
software. Because so many people
when they think, oh, I'm going
to build a business, like with
software mean that they have to
write everything. That's what
they think, right? I have to
write login, software. I have to
write my password reset and I
have to build like a payment
system and whatever, right? I'm
glad you didn't because
otherwise, you probably would
have wasted a year building this
website for no reason and
probably wouldn't have worked
either.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, exactly
Arvid Kahl: How did you
continue?
Fatih Kadir Akin: People around
me criticized me not to write it
from scratch, you know. People
were saying to me, you know,
you're a developer, you can do
it yourself, why are you using
WordPress, WooCommerce, etc? And
I said, okay, well, there is a
solution there. Why shouldn't I?
So it was, you know, a fun story
because everyone wants to create
same things again and again. And
as you said, you know, I didn't
want to write the ecommerce
system. You know, there are so
many things I should handle,
like checkouts, payment systems,
discounts, is not an easy thing
to do. I should create a company
and by you know, hire some
engineers or something. I
couldn't do it myself. I didn't
want something like that big. So
I was thinking just to try
myself if I can do business.
Yeah, that's the actually.
Arvid Kahl: How quickly did you
get customers? How quickly did
you find people to actually, you
know, buy stickers through that?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, that's
another story. I already have
followers on Twitter. I'm really
active on community. People know
me. The first day I opened my
sites, I didn't sleep until
morning to make all the
stickers, you know, because
there are lots of, you know,
orders coming from the site
because people know me. I
already have audience. I already
know people. You know, lots of
friends and my followers ordered
so many stickers from there. And
they gave me feedbacks, like you
know, the paper is bad or paper
is not good, but etc. And with
Arvid Kahl: I did not expect
that you actually would print
the feedbacks, I upgraded
myself, you know. It was a
unknown place for me, you know,
the local print shops or you
know, I don't know it's English
but the guys who sell paper, you
know. They're, you know, shops
sells paper. And I go there and
I asked, I bring some examples
from Sticker Mule. And I asked
them if they have these kind of,
you know, papers. So they have
their own jargons. You know, I
didn't understand anything. So,
I checked, I bought lots of
papers from them. And I tried
one by one, which is the best
one. Yeah and because, you know,
they are speaking in, you know,
paper types. They have some
jargons in Turkish is not, you
know. I can't google it, you
know, it's the jargon in
Turkish. So when I Google,
there's almost no result is
really hard thing for me to
handle this stuff, the
production stuff, but somehow I
figured it out. And I upgraded
my, you know, papers and I
bought some new machines and the
printers and the cutters. So,
yeah, that become active so
quickly. I didn't actually wait
too much because, you know, I
already have followers. I knew
communities. And when I go some,
you know, I was doing some
speeches around about
development, because meanwhile,
I'm already a software
developer. I didn't quit my job.
The sticker side is my side
project. So actually, like an
Uber driver. I was doing some
stickers at night and
development by the day. So
these stickers and send them out
yourself. I thought you found a
way, you know, to have somebody
else do this. But you becoming a
sticker expert, now that is news
to me. So awesome.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah,
actually. I had a partner.
Actually, my wife's older
brother is my partner because
it's gotten a little big and I
couldn't, you know, I didn't
have time to do that. And he
asked me to help. And I said,
okay, let's do it together. And
he started, he handled all the
things like shipping, the
printing. I teach him how to
print and how to cut the
stickers, so he helped me a lot.
So yeah, I had so many customers
like 17,000 customers.
Arvid Kahl: Wow!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, and
unique, by the way. Mostly from
Turkey. Yeah, mostly from
Turkey. But there were customers
from Azerbaijan, Cyprus, UK,
interestingly, UK.
Arvid Kahl: Weird
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, it's
weird to me because some people
know me. There was a developer
living in UK. She is Turkish.
But she you know, she works in
the UK community, Google comment
or something. I didn't really
remember but she knows sticker
and she told their friends.
There is a company in Turkey
printing stickers for really
cheap, you know, when you think
about the currencies, you know,
the pound is really high rate
comparing to Turkish lira. So
it's really cheap for them. So
they started to order from us.
And it was a win-win thing.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, an
international business. That's
so cool. That's great.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Romania
Arvid Kahl: Yeah
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah,
actually, this site was in
Turkish. But people were using
it with Google, you know, Google
Translate and ordering from, you
know, internationally. Yeah,
that was crazy for me, you know
Arvid Kahl: I bet. How was the
logistics of that? Like how was
like sending packages or little
letters? Was that expensive for
you? Or did you expect to send
yourself outside of Turkey at
that point?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah,
actually, we were sending the
you know, envelopes because
we're using stickers. If it's,
you know, huge order. We were
using boxes, but mostly people
are buying 10 or 20 stickers.
They love, you know, the React,
Apache etc, something like
JavaScript. So they were buying
10 or 20 stickers. So we were
using envelopes and sending
envelopes actually categorized
as documents, you know. So it
was really cheap for us to send
in, you know, in Turkey. But in
outside of Turkey is a bit
expensive, but you know, we were
charging customers on shipping.
So actually it wasn't actually a
big issue for us. We were
charging them. So it's okay. And
actually, for example, UK was
really expensive from Turkey.
But according to them, it's not
really expensive. So they were
okay about paying the shipping
costs. So it wasn't a big issue.
Yeah, actually, I was collecting
customers from you know. I was
going to some meetups speaking,
you know, about development and
I was collecting customers, you
know. You know, in every
community slide, I introduce
myself to the community, right?
You know, I emphatically
recommend I'm a developer and my
Twitter handle is this and I do
own a business called
Stikker.net. If you go to
Stikker.net and use that code,
discount code, you will able to
have a discount. So actually, I
was doing some
Arvid Kahl: Marketing?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Marketing on
yeah, thanks. Marketing on
meetups and people love it.
Actually, it was working. I
didn't do any Google ads or
something. Never.
Arvid Kahl: Wow. It's the
perfect product for community
too, right? Everybody, every
developer loves stickers on
their laptop on whatever
periphery they have, like iPads
and whatnot. And if you already
are in the JavaScript community,
not only do you have like
JavaScript stickers, but you're
gonna have UJS and you have like
React and you have whatever new
framework they invented
yesterday. You can put a sticker
out and this is such a gigantic
amount of projects, right? That
you can have massive amount of
potential stickers there,
genius! Like when I go to
meetups, I try to find stickers.
Not that I really need them,
right? I don't need more
stickers. Everything is full of
stickers anyway, but I liked it.
It's just such a it's almost a
meme, right? In our community
that we need those stickers.
What a perfect match of your
community contribution and the
business that you've been
building. That is really cool.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, exactly!
Yeah, actually, people asked me
a lot why I'm only, you know,
targeting developers and
designers because you know, lots
of people need stickers. And
last year, I upgraded my content
to, you know, target more
people, you know, not just
developers or designers. I edit,
you know, like, some other kinds
of memes, internet memes or
something. So actually, I tried
to expand my target audience.
But developers are, you know,
developers and designers were
actually my biggest customers.
Yeah
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, that makes
sense. It's nice to have a niche
because you know exactly what
they want, right? I mean, memes,
I guess you can quickly figure
out what memes work but you know
exactly. I mean, you go to the
meetups, you see people's
stickers, you know what they
already have, right? So you can
make a pretty sound judgment,
still good to expand into memes.
I think it's a great idea to try
and see, right? How far you can
go. When did Sticker Mule come
knocking? When did they express
interest in your product?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, that's
another story. Actually, we were
running business in the
beginning of this year and my
brother in law, asking me to you
know, asking me to buy some new
toners and you know, papers,
etc. So, we were, you know,
running business, but for two
years like, Turkish economy gone
a bit, you know, bad. So, price
has gone high and, you know, the
dollar rate is go really high.
The Turkish Lira lost its value.
So, important things become a
little bit harder for us. And
the government decided to, you
know, harder the customs because
they want to support the local
producers. So, it was really a
nightmare for importers to do
something, actually and you
know, we don't produce toners or
printers. So you know, the toner
prices go really, really really
high you know. I tried to, you
know, like I was buying a color
of toner like 300 Turkish lira
and it become 5000 Turkish lira.
You can guess the
Arvid Kahl: Wow! That's a lot!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah and when
I checked the prices, our toners
finished and there was some
orders waiting for you know the
printer to be filled. So, we can
you know, ship them. My brother
in law asked me to can you
please order some toner because
we need toners. We ran out of
toner. So, okay, I will do it, I
said. And I go to the toner
sites I always buy. So, I
checked, you know, five color
toner is like, sorry four color
toner is like CMYK you know,
like 20,000 Turkish lira is
amazing, you know, is too high.
You know, there are high level
printers, there were actually
high level printers in that
price. So I called back my
brother in law, I said I won't
order. Let's close the business
and he said what? How? Why? And
I said, okay, let's go high. We
are doing some business. We can
increase our prices, you know,
to make it more you know,
profitable. So, this is another
option, but I don't want to, you
know. I actually was selling
stickers. When I first started
the business, I was selling
stickers just one lira per
sticker, you know. It's really,
really low price. So it's gone
really high and I didn't want
people to pay really high rates
for a sticker that, you know, is
not a need for the people is
just a pleasure or something.
You know, I didn't want to.
Actually, we were earning from
sidewalks. I didn't want to, you
know. I'm doing this business as
my, you know, side project. It
doesn't actually, you know, I
didn't live with it. So I said,
okay, we already spent too much
time on it. I can't do better
things to earn money instead of
running a sticker company and
earn much more money. So let's
close the business. This is not
actually profitable anymore, I
said. And he said, okay, fine,
let's do it. Let's close it. And
I tweeted, actually, I stopped.
Actually, I didn't close the
site, but I just disabled the
payments, payment page. So
people can view the stickers,
but they won't be able to order
them. And I send a Tweet to the
people saying, okay, guys, in
Turkish, by the way. Okay, guys,
I'm closing the Stikker.net
because it's become, you know, a
little bit hard to run. So,
because of the economy and I
didn't actually want to increase
the prices, so I decided to
close it. And lots of people
mentioned me, replied to me, I
shouldn't do it, let's support
you or something, you know.
People are encouraging me to run
the business again. And somehow,
I didn't know how it happens.
Somebody from Sticker Mule sent
me a message from LinkedIn and
said, okay, we saw you decided
to close your business. Are you
open to acquiring, you know,
selling the site to us? And I
said, actually, I didn't believe
it at first because, you know. I
taught someone trolling me, you
know. The site, I said, it's not
profitable anymore. And not
much. And I decided to close
actually, the business is not
going fine, you know and so I
thought someone's trolling me.
And I checked his profile. I
checked his, you know, how many
connections. I was trying to
convince me if he's a real
person or not. And I said, wow,
are you serious? Yes, sure. I
will sell you. And he connected
me to the CFO of the Sticker
Mule. We had two calls with her.
So we had a deal. And that's how
it's gone.
Arvid Kahl: Wow!
Fatih Kadir Akin: I didn't
expect just for me, it's just
like, winning a lottery.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Same chance
for me
Arvid Kahl: That is so nice.
What an incredible story,
particularly because it sounds
like a movie, right? You're at
the darkest hour and everything
fails and nothing works. And
there is the sun is coming out
and money comes your way. I'm
happy for you. This was so nice.
What a cool ending. I sometimes
wonder like you said something
earlier, which really stuck with
me. Like you already had a
Twitter audience and you already
had your community that you were
part of and that you were
organizing. Would you ever even
have started this business if
you didn't have this audience
and your community work? Do you
think you would ever have the
same level of success?
Fatih Kadir Akin: I don't think
so. No, it's yeah, people around
me say oh my, God! How did you
do that? You know, it's
impossible, they probably will
say and they add because of the
people you're you know, because
of the Twitter followers of you,
it's happened. They say they
believe actually I believe so.
You know, audience is really,
really, really important thing
for you know, you know, for the
business like, you know, like
Stikker.net. I don't know,
actually for every business
actually, I believe.
Arvid Kahl: I think so, too.
Fatih Kadir Akin: I think it's
important. And yeah, actually I
didn't expect that become, you
know, escalate so quickly.
Arvid Kahl: I'm happy. That
makes me happy to hear though.
That is such a cool story.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, I was
thinking there are many
printers. I had 12 printers, by
the way.
Fatih Kadir Akin: I had 12
printers and cutters. I was, you
Arvid Kahl: Wow
know, making some, you know,
maths. If I sell these printers
and the cutters, I had this much
of no money. And I was trying to
you know, I was calculating all
the things, but you know, when
the sticker comes, is like sun
shining, as you said.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, that's so
cool.
Fatih Kadir Akin: And that's how
it ended. I'm really happy with
this ending, you know.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, that's a good
ending.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Actually, I
think to me first, you know,
ending your business is a kind
of, you know, bad thing, right?
But I'm happy right now.
Arvid Kahl: That's good. I can
see it. That's really nice. What
a glorious ending. I think it's
just really, I'm very happy for
you. And I think you made a
couple of really good choices
along the way. That kind of
allowed you to even though it
didn't work out, that's not your
fault, right? The fact that the
Turkish economy has these
issues, that's not your fault,
really. But you dealt with it,
you had to deal with it and that
somebody else had the vision for
your existing business to still
flourish to still go on even
after you sell it to them.
That's great for Sticker Mule.
And what I find so hilarious in
this is that you said in the
beginning, Sticker Mule is too
expensive. I'm gonna build my
own Sticker Mule and then you
build your own Sticker Mule. And
then Sticker Mule buys the
Turkish Sticker Mule. That is
just such a funny thing, right?
It's this idea that you built a
local, local version of their
business that doesn't work
really well in your country, but
you make it work. And then they
get to benefit from that too.
What a perfect story. I'm just
really happy. And you said
you're not a front end developer
anymore. Can you tell me like
how that transition to I think
you're now working in what
developer relations? Is that
what it is? Or what are you
doing?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yes, I'm
actually a developer relations
manager at Teknasyon, which is a
global company based in Turkey.
Yeah, actually, because of my,
you know, communication skills.
I upgraded in so many years with
the community stuff. So they
asked me to last year, beginning
of this year, actually, they
asked me to join them as a
developer relations manager.
Actually, I didn't know what a
developer relations manager
does.
Arvid Kahl: I don't know either.
What do you do?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, actually
developer relations manager is
simply keeping the actually if
you can think of two parts
internal and external. Internal
developer relations is trying to
make developers life easier
inside the company like
improving the developer
experience, giving space to you
know develop their selves, you
know and kind of things
actually. I had a blog post on
it, but I didn't release it yet.
Yeah, actually some kind of
stuff inside and externally, I'm
doing some actually, a company
wants to grow, right? And the
growth becomes into ways in
terms of tech, you should
require, sorry, recruit people
hire people or you should. And
actually not all, and you should
make increase retention. People
shouldn't leave your company.
Yeah. So developer relations
tries to do both of them working
with CTO and HR. And because we
should increase the retention,
make developers happy. And
meanwhile, I should hire new
people, hire new talents and so
to do that, I go to conferences,
meetups and etc, find people and
try to hire them. Yeah,
actually, I'm trying to develop
strategies to achieve these two
things. I didn't know if I'm
clear or not, but
Arvid Kahl: Oh, yeah makes
perfect sense. Like internally,
you make sure that things work
well. And that people who work
in the company, get to grow. And
externally, you attract new
talent and you retain it. And
you do that by going to events
and making sure that the company
you're working for is visible to
the outside. I think it's funny
because that is what you've
always done, right? By going to
events and talking. But you were
talking about technology, not
necessarily a company, but like
JavaScript, right? You were
working for JavaScript this
whole time. I remember back in
2012, when I met you, for the
very first time. My mind was
blown that you had written a
book about JavaScript, like that
was already like I was so happy
to meet somebody who had ever
written the book because I had
not met a technical author
before. And about a technology
that back then at least, was
rather I guess, new ish, like
novel. There was something about
JavaScript where it was just
coming back up, right? Like
CoffeeScript was around. We
didn't have TypeScript yet. We
didn't have we had like, Node JS
0.6 or something. It was a
really, really new kind of
JavaScript on the back end and
stuff that was all very new. And
you've always been there. The
decades that we have, like, not
worked together now. You've
always been part of this
community. You've always been
bringing more people into
JavaScript in Turkey. And I
think worldwide, just looking at
your Twitter following, you have
a lot of followers too. That was
also impressive to me back then.
You know, like when when we met,
I had no followers on Twitter at
all. But you had lots and even
back in 2018-2019 when we sold
our business, I always look up
to you and your Twitter, because
I had no followers at that
point, either. But you had like
25,000. I was always impressed
by how many people you were able
to attract to you. I'm not
surprised that you're now doing
this professionally, is really
cool. Do you still get to code?
Do you still want to code, maybe
two questions at the same time?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah,
actually, I love coding. I still
actually, we are trying to you
know, I'm trying to encourage
people inside the company about
doing some open source stuff. So
sometimes I try to you know,
lead them. So I'm doing some
code. Actually, last night, I
had a short session in YouTube.
So we were, you know, trying to
build something with Deno, the
new JavaScript runtime. So yeah,
I'm still doing code. Actually
not that much at all times. But
yeah, I still code. I love
coding. So yeah and by the way,
yeah. Now, you know, I'm envying
you, by the way, you become
really popular. And people say
me. And when I say, okay,
someone sends me, you know, your
book or something. And I say,
oh, yeah, I know Arvid for a
while, like 10 years or
something. They say, what? Your
know Arvid Kahl? You know each
other? You know, you become much
you become much more worldwide,
you know.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, it's a bizarre
coincidence, I think. But it's
like, it's just me, Danielle and
I building building Feedback
Panda that was just like with
you. I feel like it was the
right opportunity at the right
moment with both of us co
founders, I guess. We're at the
right point to say we're gonna
build this now. And if it works,
great. And if it doesn't, well,
then it was interesting, you
know and it was a nice
experience. And then we built
that and it was successful and
we sold it. And that just kind
of escalated my public
appearance because back in 2019,
after we sold the business, I
think I had 400 followers on
Twitter, like that was
comparatively nothing, right?
And those were people who've
been following me for 10 years
on Twitter and I never used the
platform. So I didn't have a
following at all. But I've been
working on increasing this,
obviously, because I am
teaching, right? Just like you,
I've now written books, which I
always felt inspired by your
work as well. So it's just so
nice to talk to you, man. It's
been so long.
Fatih Kadir Akin: By the way, I
read half of your Zero to Sold
book.
Arvid Kahl: Oh, nice.
Fatih Kadir Akin: I'm so sorry.
I didn't finish it.
Arvid Kahl: Don't worry, it's a
big book.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, you
wrote a lot.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, that's right.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Actually, you
are one of the best writers I
have read, you know, you're
writing really nice. I think
it's not a coincidence you have
too many followers. You know,
you are a well known person in
worldwide. So
Arvid Kahl: Thanks so much!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Congratulations!
Arvid Kahl: Thanks, Fatih.
That's really sweet.
Fatih Kadir Akin: I'm really
glad. I feel, you know,
honorable to know you.
Arvid Kahl: Me, too!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Oh, I know
Arvid Kahl
Arvid Kahl: I'm equally
fortunate to have met you. I
think, honestly, back back, then
I would have called myself like
an amateur developer because I
had worked in software. I built
some stuff, mostly, you know,
PHP and all these things you did
back then, around the 2010 times
the 2010 mark, but it was in
working with you. And obviously
also with the other fine people
at coding, that I really learned
what professional software
engineering can be, right? It
took me being in a group of
really good engineers that
really love building software.
And being part of that, that I
always tell people when they
asked me, was it worth going to
university for computer science?
I dropped out, right? So I don't
know what should I say to begin
with. But in the two weeks, the
first two weeks that I spent
working for coding and getting
to know like everybody there,
including you, at some, I guess
later point, but in the first
couple of weeks and months, I
learned more than I ever learned
in five, six years at the
university. Because it was just
such a group of people and this
shared goal that we had to build
like an online IDE for coding,
that's just exploded potential,
right? I feel to this day, I'm
super thankful for the
opportunity. And even though the
business didn't work out and we
all went our separate ways at
some point, I don't think I
would be where I am now if it
wasn't for the people that I met
along the way that taught me
everything and taught me so many
things that I would have never
thought about. So now that you
work in developer relations,
what is the next business that
you're gonna be building? I have
a feeling you're gonna be
building something new in the
future, right? Or is Stikker.net
the last thing you gotta built?
What do you think?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah,
actually, I have an idea. I
actually I have an idea for four
years. I have an idea for four
years and nobody still didn't do
that. But it's not an ecommerce.
You know, I gave up with the E
commerce. Ecommerce is not
really scalable, you know. You
know, the shipping thing is
really hard. Building things in
physically is really really
hard. It has so many blockers.
It has so many things that you
should handle with but I have an
idea, a business idea. Doing
some SaaS project for the
companies is for the actually,
startups. I didn't want to go
deeper on it. But I have an
idea, right? But I don't know
when I will start, you know,
because Stikker.net was
occupying too much time of mine,
too much time. So I gave a
break. And when I feel myself
really, I'll try to do some new
business. And I will try to see
if I'm doing SaaS business.
Yeah, if I try it in, you know,
the E-Commerce. Yeah
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, I think SaaS
has many benefits. I think
obviously, like, it's much more
scalable if you build it as a
low touch kind of business,
where you don't have to do sales
or you don't have to print
anything is just, you know, a
machine doing the work. But it
does come with a lot of
pressure, pressure in a sense of
you need to focus on it a lot. I
remember this, like,
fortunately, Feedback Panda was
low touch and it was highly
automated. And we could run it
as a side project for a long
time. Both Daniela and I, we
both had full time jobs while we
built the software on the side.
But at some point, there was
this kind of choice that we
needed to make, like, are we
going to do it full time now or
is it just going to be this
small side project, right? And
it was making good money at that
point already. But we had to
make a conscious choice to not
get money from our main jobs
anymore. So we could really dive
into the business. And one thing
that I noticed running the
business pretty much myself as a
technical founder, Danielle was
the non technical person and she
did all the design and all the,
you know, the business, the
outreach to sales to marketing
and I did all the tech stuff at
that point. There was a lot of
mental pressure to just keep
things running. Because if you
don't have like a DevOps team,
if you don't have like more
engineers that are on call at
night so you can sleep, you're
always on call and you're always
responsible for keeping the
software running. And if you
write a book and you've written
the book, you don't care. You
don't care what Amazon does on
their book printing store or you
know or your publisher does. You
give the book to them, they deal
with the book and they sell it
for you and you get the
royalties. But with a SaaS, man,
you better be like ready to
spend a lot of time on it, which
obviously, in your situation
where you have a full time job
and your community work. It's
probably gonna be hard to just
side project this. I can see that.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, I think
so. You know, I tried to start
and I'll see how it goes. I
don't know, I actually don't
have any. You know, I can see
what will happen, but I can't
feel the pressure, you know,
because I worked for the SaaS
companies. I didn't own one. But
I worked for the SaaS companies.
And it's like having a baby you
know. As you said you have
always have to think of it in
your mind. And it will occupy
your time maybe you know, you
know, as you said you have to be
on call all the time. It doesn't
feel you know, really easy but I
used to you know, used to have
some experience from Stikker.
Stikker.net is like actually,
you know, SaaS business but it
has pressure too. It's kind of
you know, people were mailing,
people were calling by the
phone. They were ordering and in
an hour later, they were calling
if it is shipped or not, you
know, it's like management
customers is not really easy
thing, you know. Yeah, so I can
feel it, but I'll try to do some
business and after the Sticker
Mule acquisition, you know, it
makes much more confidence, you
know, to me. I don't know
actually if Sticker Mule didn't
acquired it, maybe I would never
think of it but after Sticker
Mule acquires, it feels like oh,
I can do something.
Arvid Kahl: Yeah, that's right!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Let's try
again.
Arvid Kahl: Yes, that's the
right mindset right there.
Honestly, what I would like to
see is that you started right
now or tomorrow. Get started,
man. I mean, what do you have to
lose, right? You can always run
your little SaaS project as a
side project. I mean, you know,
obviously, you still have to do
your job.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, I mean,
maybe I've started, no one
knows.
Arvid Kahl: You know, I will
support you. Yeah, you know
that, right? And you have a
community of what now 53,000
followers that will also support
your efforts. They did support
you with stickers. So they will
also support you with the next
thing. Man, it's so nice talking
to you. And just seeing you
smile when you talk about
business. Because I think for
both of us back in 2012, when we
were just regular software
engineers, neither of us was
thinking about building a
business, right? I certainly
didn't and I don't think you
were. And now here we are. Isn't
that cool?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah. Yeah,
it's you know, the world is
small, man.
Arvid Kahl: It really is. I'm so
glad that you talk to me today.
That is such a wonderful thing.
Where do you want people to find
you after they listen to this?
Where do you want people to go
and check out your stuff?
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, you can
find me on Twitter. Actually,
I'm always tweeting in Turkish.
Sorry about it. But most of the
time, I'm making fun. But Google
Translate works fine, you know.
You can translate and read my
tweets. I'm fakdev, like
developers and fak, my capitals.
So yeah, they can reach me out
there from Twitter and they can
find me on LinkedIn as well.
LinkedIn is much more, you know,
the much more you know, English
based, so yeah
Arvid Kahl: That's a cool!
Fatih Kadir Akin: I have lots of
open source projects on GitHub.
Use them.
Arvid Kahl: You also have the, I
think the shortest twitter
handle that anyone could have,
right? You're just F on GitHub.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, GitHub.
Yeah, I have github/f
Arvid Kahl: That is so bizarre.
Man, you were there at the first
hour of GitHub existing to grab
that handle. That is so cool.
Man, thank you so much for
chatting with me. That was
awesome. And I hope you start
your next thing immediately. Get
going, man. I know you'll have
the support of the whole
community behind you. Thanks so
much, Fatih.
Fatih Kadir Akin: Yeah, I'm
opening my IDE right now for you
to find me again.
Arvid Kahl: All right. Way to
go. Thanks so much!
Fatih Kadir Akin: Thank you,
man.
Arvid Kahl: And that's it for
today. Thank you for listening
to The Bootstrapped Founder. You
can find me on Twitter
@arvidkahl. You'll find my books
and my Twitter course there as
well. If you wanna support me
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Any of this, will truly help the
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listening and have a wonderful
day. Bye bye