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upGrad Enterprise aims to build the world’s largest GenAI learning initiative to enable high-growth companies to embrace technology’s transformative business impact. Hosted by Srikanth Iyengar, CEO, upGrad Enterprise, the GenAIrous Podcast, will curate an exciting roster of global experts and guests, who are at the cutting-edge of Generative AI, and its varied applications in the world of business.
Welcome to the GenAIrous Podcast where we unravel the fascinating world of generative AI and its transformative impact on business globally. I'm your host, Srikanth Iyengar, CEO of upGrad Enterprise. At upGrad Enterprise, we're building the world's largest Gen AI learning initiative, empowering high growth companies to leverage cutting edge technology. Each week, join me and the roster of global experts as we explore innovation shaping the world of work as we know it. Let's get GenAIrous.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:It's a pleasure today to have with me Vivek Ganotra. Vivek joins us from sunny London, sunny at least today. Vivek, thank you so much for joining us.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:It's a pleasure, Srikanth. It is indeed a sunny day in London. Hasn't been the best of July so far. So let's hope, get some more days of sunshine here. But pleasure to be on the podcast with you.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:So, Vivek, you you had a very, very diverse global career. You know, you've, you know, we've known each other about 30 plus years now, and I know you've done consulting. You've been with one of the world's largest CPG companies, then you've gone to a large product company, and now you're in an early stage company. And this has spanned 3 continents. But, you know, you over that period of over 25 years, you've seen many, many inflection points in the global business world. Right? You know, we we saw Y2K back in the day. We've seen the Cloud. We had a financial crisis. And now you talked about the Gen AI revolution. So where do you place this on that spectrum? Is this just another short term, I wouldn't say fad, but and, you know, a short term impact, or do you think this is truly a game changer?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:The the short answer and, again, no one's got the the full crystal ball. But my view on this having listened to a lot of, people and and seen things, at a at close quarters is that we're genuinely at the start of a revolution that's gonna last 5, 7 years before it sort of settles into another phase leading up to 2030. And it's very similar probably to what happened in '97 before it became above, I think, the birth when the birth of the Internet, when we there was lot of companies that weren't even born like Google, Amazon had just been created. And I put it in that same bucket because of the following reasons. I feel while some people will say, well, you know, we are labeling everything as Gen AI etcetera.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:That's true. I think but what is fundamentally happening is some of the core infrastructure has been built for the for this for this new world. The infrastructure, whether it's the GPU chips from NVIDIA and AMD, all of that is now being dispersed to start ups, AI start ups, to the, bigger, cloud providers. So the infrastructure is there. The possibilities of, these large language models and what they can do is prevalent and they continue to evolve. A lot of questions obviously being asked about it, but the possibilities of businesses, everything from consulting businesses, services businesses to to good old to actually start to leverage them for, everything from productivity gains to disrupting their core businesses or creating new revenue models has just begun. So I I put this in a in a bucket, not of a fad, but of a of a of a genuine revolution.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:No. I think fascinating perspective. I love the analogy to the late nineties in the dotcom boom. Like you rightly said, there was a lot of hype. 100s of companies with dotcom got created. 99% of those don't exist today, but we saw some clear winners come out.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:So let's switch back again to the, industries and then the data. But on the industries themselves, given that different industries, maybe in different parts of the world are looking at this differently, they're all trying to figure out how to get in. Are you seeing any trends emerge there? I mean, you had exposure, of course, at scale to CPG retail, but you've also seen other industries, whether it be financial services, etcetera, in your Salesforce role. And you're close to, you know, a perspective across industries. So any any views there on which industries are looking like driving greater adoption? Any particular regional nuances?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:See, I think if I we'll probably start from the geographical lens. And, again, I'm not saying that I have the definitive view, but certainly, in the last few months, I've spoken to a lot of individuals, particularly in the in the venture capital world, also network of investors and others. I think I feel there are 2 key sources of action where there's a lot of good action of net new innovation and possibilities happening around the space. 1 is, without a doubt, back to where a lot of origination happens, which is, fall at the valley, the Bay Area. I think there's a lot of just really good momentum, of course, without a doubt, great talent, great, a lot of capital being allocated, waiting to be allocated. There is a lot of net new possibilities that are that are emerging from there across across sectors. Equally, I see another really interesting source of, of I call it innovation and backed by self confidence, which is India, which is not necessarily the case that last time the revolution happened. You know? So we've seen the services revolution being exported from India to, you know, overseas that that you and many of us been part of. But the but I think there is in this current, climate, I think the more importantly from the I see real self confidence in the entrepreneurial world in India talking about not just, you know, just creating net new businesses on the but actually talking about net new innovation, whether it's in areas of space tech, health tech, in even in enterprise SaaS and many other areas.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:And I, equally, am I'm looking forward to the day where, there is gonna be consumer brands using, or retail, innovation coming out of India, creating a global consumer brand out of India, which has still not happened, you know, in spite of the amazing innovation that happens in India, amazing amount of brand builders and marketers. We're still waiting for the 1st global consumer brand out of India, but I think it will happen over the next, not necessarily linked just to Gen AI, but I think there's a real, sense of growing self confidence, and I see a lot of net new innovation.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Of course, there's a good, lot of good innovation happening in Europe as well, but I see it, in pockets, in, in certain sectors. You you got the the Cambridge quarter here doing a lot of interesting work in biosciences. Health that continues. I think you see pockets of that happening in Europe, but I actually look at from increasingly for inspiration coming out of the Bay Area and India. That's a geographical lens.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:I think on the industrial lens, personally, I probably don't have a definitive view, but I can see emerging trends in all key sectors. And, you know, what what's happening is in every company, I think people are thinking about, okay, what's our response to this possibility? And I think you you can broadly put them into 3 buckets.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:You see the classic, let's automate, let's drive productivity, let's take heads out where possible, and that continues. It's not a new thing. It's probably accelerating within the possibilities of that growing equally. The the cost pressure in a high cost of capital world is is driving the need for more meaningful automation. 2nd is, relevant interventions in the consumer customer journey, whether it's b2c or b2b to be able to, again, drive a better, effectiveness in, in the marketing funnel, for example.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:I think there are lots of interesting interventions on how you can acquire consumers or customers, whether it's in the enterprise, how you can convert better, and how you can retain better using, you know, again, meaningful interventions. I think when I use the one meaningful is there's a lot of for example, people just if you think about us as consumers, we still will count on our, you know, hand x number of really good personalized experience that we've been at the receiving end on, where someone truly understands the context, understands in that context what is the right offer for Srikanth, at a particular point in time. That's still a hard problem to solve. People talk about personalization, hyperpersonalization. But I think there's multiple improvements happening in the space and possibilities.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:And I think that will be an area which, again, brands will differentiate in terms of driving up retention, lowering the cost of acquisition, and improving the the whole marketing funnel. And then there are possibly net new revenue and business models. But I can see, you know, huge sectors coming under threat. You know, you take this, the huge, world of, services or even a big, system implementation come. I think in this new world where I think software can be much more easily configured and and with with sensible practical application of Gen AI to create preconfigured software to really, really shorten that time of deployment.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:I just think it is going to fundamentally disrupt over a period of time and could be faster in some areas. We do you need the so these organizations that have hundreds and thousands of people as, as global services companies, how do they how do they reinvent themselves? I think there's a it's a tough one because in some cases, you look at that, it's a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas. Right? How do you really think about creating and it's not easy to just shift from a services company to a product company and, or a product company. A lot of people have tried to do that, and these are very different muscles. So that's one sector I'm observing quite closely to see how that but it's in that. I think in traditional industries, whether it's CPG, retail, retail always time tends to take a bit of a lead position, you know, to to set the tone, particularly in terms of, consumer. How do we think about, affecting consumer habits, behavior, CPGs, and other sectors tend to follow. They tend to not necessarily lead, but it is early days in my view to almost, say with some industries are progressing more than others.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:But it is certainly a fascinating time with almost every company is is certainly thinking about it. But I think most companies need to really think about going beyond driving, writing a AI strategy, and looking just looking good at a board level or having the IPOCs, which there are gazillions of going around to actually, let's get back to the fundamentals and do the hard yards that we should have done 2, 3 years back. Sorry. That's a bit of a long answer to your question.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:No. No. I think, some really, really good perspectives there. Let's drill down a bit, and especially since you've been on the buy side before as leading a sort of large global, tech organization. Let's focus a bit on data. I mean, obviously, a key component of this whole revolution is availability of data. And, you know, companies have stored data in various forms over the years. We've all tried to gain insights from data over the last couple of decades, but this is a game changer. But at the same time, the data is all unstructured. It's not clearly available, and you've got multiple people trying to access that very same data. And there is always a concern that companies have. Do I share my data in a, let's say, public model? And if I do, what does that mean for my, let's say, secret sauce, if I call it that? And, you know, you've been a buyer. You've been on the sales side. Now you're with the start up. Walk us through that. How do you see that playing out?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Again, I think it's about going back to asking yourself basic fundamental business questions. So if I'm, you know, if I'm operating as a CIO, I would want to make sure that firstly, even do I understand where all my data is, which data that it, to which data do I have, you know, in in which location? Again, we're talking about global organizations where you have the geographical context, you have the domain context. So and it's and I without it or the awareness of that, I do see this as a hard problem to solve. So it's not if it was easy, most people would have solved it.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:But even before you think about creating the right data cloud infrastructure and stuff, it's important to think about putting the guardrails about how and where you want to organize your data to be actually thinking very carefully about the underlying insights that you really care about that need that can be, and and where they need to be fed into which channels and and how. I think one of the before even we think about worrying about data privacy and and to external parties, etcetera, I think there is a conversation I think organizations need to have is, look. Traditionally, data has been intentionally, I think, siloed because organizations are siloed. Right? Because the incentives and motivations of brand teams and sales teams and supply chain teams don't necessarily align.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:They're different KPIs. But in this new world, as an example, the the start up that I'm actively, you know, engaged with right now you know, one of the hardest problems to solve in data is really assessing qualitative data, so unstructured data, to a level of granularity and accuracy that is really hard to do, across voice, text, you know, live chats, external posts, social, etcetera. And the more important thing is once if I find the right technology and tools to analyze it, the dissemination and the discussion of again, those insights requires true collaboration across different parts of the organization at a very granular and a very agile form, like daily daily reviews on what action should we take proactively in which channels. Now if you think about most traditional organizations, they're they're really not wired to be able to act on their data effectively. So why I talk about fundamentals, it's actually important to spend time thinking about back to front.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:What are the kind of use cases I really would like to drive? To which what changes am I willing to make organizationally? To how do I need to now, make sure I curate the following sets of data? For which, how do I make sure that I can get access to that data and ingest that in a smart way and then be able to disseminate it back for actionable insights or actionable insights and execution into channels. I think if you think that through, then you start to really become very laser focused on, trying to solve for your data ingestion issues, your data cleaning issues, your data, you know, whatever you want to do with curating and driving the data.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:And then I think when it comes to sharing with external parties, I do think it's a world where I would say you gotta choose some of your partners carefully, and a fewer partners with deep relationships is what will, I think, build trust. And I would wrap I would say this is the time where you actually take time to pick, like, your close friends and then go deep with them in these relationships. And and, yes, make sure that they put all the right sub compliance or other, regulatory, aspects so you know that you're sharing your data with a trusted partner. You understand how they're gonna use that data, how they're gonna share it back to you. You understand underlying how their models are built, etcetera.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So find the right experts in your organizations to ask the right questions. Build fewer, you know, deep partnerships. And and still, I think, recognizing that there's a risk involved because I don't think you don't know what you don't know. So but taking meaningful steps in that direction, once you spend sufficient time really thinking about the the whole subject internally, which is which is what I stress. I don't think I see enough of that. I see people just going punching out for POCs x because I think everyone just wants to look busy and look smart on their dinner table conversations to say, look. We're doing 10 POCs of AI and stuff like that. And I think that's okay, but they're all most of them are just cul de sacs. They don't really scale or go anywhere because you haven't actually taken time to think through how the data is gonna be consumed, etcetera. Sorry. It feels like a maybe a bit of a, a lecture or crusade, but that's something I feel passionately about.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:No. It it it's clearly the view of a practitioner. I truly respect that. You've been on the, you know, on the firing line for years, so I get that completely. You know, you you talked about partnerships. Fully agree. A few deep partnerships make sense. But going back to what you outlined within large enterprises, I think, you know, the the the the point you laid out, having that clear strategy, diving deep, critical.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:But one other aspect I do wanna add is it sounds like this is not just a tech organization initiative. What you're talking about means that business is gonna have to work very, very closely. They're an integral part of this process. Because in the past, initiatives like this have been predominantly a tech organization's responsibility or purview with business sort of just keeping an eye on how things are going or staying close to it. But this is a different level of involvement. Is would that be a correct characterization?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Beyond doubt. 100%. Yes. However, I think there's a bit of a it's a cliche conversation as well. These conversations, if you rewind the clock even 3, 4 years back with the label of digital transformation, people were saying the same thing. It's a business transformation, and it's not just tech. And all true. All true. However, then you double click and say, well, what's actually happening in organizations? And I think in my my observation learning, there are few things that differentiate truly successful transformations to not.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:I genuinely do start with that the chief exec has to not just buy in, but own it, drive it, lead it, lead will he lead with action? That doesn't mean suddenly he's suddenly training himself to in to be a prompt engineer. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he has to indulge into this exercise, get his top team really indulging into this topic rather than saying, let me just get a consulting exercise done and so I've and then we can, you know, kick off some projects with the with the CIO and the CDO. Neither is it appoint appointing some new department to look after this.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:It's actually taking time to saying, how can how does this change our business strategy, in which areas, in what way, and what actual, resource allocation choices are we gonna make in the next 6, 12 months to really I think if that's done, then it really disseminates into what's the role of the technology function, the digital function, the marketing function, and and and and and I'm a big believer in I mean, these are genuine big changes that are hard to do in bigger enterprises. The bigger you get, harder to to change. It's just natural, you know, while we talk about transformation. Most companies are basically just focused on incremental change because they are fundamentally risk averse. So I'm a big believer in trying to create lighthouses and lighting sparks.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So, for example, if I'm a CEO, I would find some next generation leaders inside the organizations and GMs of some key countries to say, take a lead. Prove this prove these use cases in country x. Let's create real commercial momentum by showing the cause and effect of of increased revenue or or or improved margins. That would light the fire where then you create a competitive spirit with all other general managers saying, I want to, you know, I want to showcase, and you start to create meaningful change. You know?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So I'm a big believer in don't try to think about some grand transformation. Think about think top down. Think big, but start small. Light the spark. Create some lighthouses. And yes.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:And then, of course, these are wider transformations. But I almost think we need to stop talking about it. And we'd and the payer we have to talking about is not saying whether this is the CIO or the CDO. It actually is the chief executive has to and the board have to actually be able to articulate if someone asks them, so what is how are you using Gen AI.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:What does it mean in terms of opportunity and risk for your business? They should be able to articulate to the investors and analysts and shareholders in a very crisp way and where it translates to clear resource allocation choices. And and then I think the execution starts to feel like it feels like doing a big acquisition or feels like where the whole company gets, you know, involved. And I think that's that's always been the case, you know, whether it's Gen AI or digital or even a good old technology transformation, that's still fundamental. And unfortunately, I think, you know, I know there's a reason you asked question. It's still is not true in many organizations. And then we still seem to talk about case studies where tech was siloed and, you know, and the business was sitting separately where it's it's a shame in 2024. We're still sort of having these conversations.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:No. I think it's it's very clearly, you know, another manifestation of the fact that humans are the center of any transformation, including AI. And, you know, humans bring emotions. They bring, you know, ambition. They bring, you know, a sort of vision. They bring all kinds of things to the table that a technology would not, and one has to take all that into account. So completely, completely understand.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:You know, I I do wanna touch on one other thing, though. You know, you and I were at London Tech Week. We've been at a few events post that. And one role we we, you know, we talked about, we've seen emerge is the role of the chief AI officer or head of AI innovation that a lot of large companies are sort of creating, if you call it that. Now clearly, it's important to have a role like that so that one can sort of make sure that there's a holistic perspective of what's happening across the organization. But given the fact that, you know, you played those kind of roles before, you actually hired into similar sort of, transformation roles before. How would you if you were, let's say, running a large company, how would you empower that person? How would you enable them to be able to drive the change that's required? Any any pointers there?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Look. Firstly, I I think you gotta be careful in kinda net new appointments with fancy labels and titles. I don't believe that they, you know, they often are set up with almost for failure because they are just like, oh, we've and many of these job descriptions are also not fully thought through. But to your to your to your underlying question, I would prefer that if if, you know, I was sitting on a board, I would prefer that individual, ideally, to be a next generation leader from inside my company who has the context. And then I could invest in him, and he could then obviously bring the right expertise on whether it's Gen AI, which is ease you know, easily available and can be but I would rather you know, it might feel very, you know, cool to go.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So let me go hire from a big tech company, a guy with the that and and plant him into this very traditional company. I have seen very few examples of that truly succeed. I'm sure there are there, but I'd rather pick a a top leader who's potentially gonna be the next board member or CEO in maybe 5, 10 years' time and actually tell him, look. I want you to write the blueprint and help drive the blueprint of the future of the company and indulge in this topic. Because, again, that makes it because by even doing that, you're sending a signal to the company that this is core to what we're trying to do. It's core to our business transformation, our journey ahead, not something just sitting on the side and we'll see what happens. You know, if it doesn't work, you know, we get rid of the guy or and then we move on. I think that is what I would I would do.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:So, Vivek, fascinating perspectives. You know, clearly, we talked about data. You're now in the take of the action with a startup that's using consumer data at scale. And, yes, while there is regulation both in the US and in the UK and the EU around the use of data, you know, there's a lot of self policing that's still required to be done. As you know, regulation and legislation often catches up with technology. So there is this, you know, onus in not just doing what's legally required, but also probably doing what's right from a consumer standpoint. So how are you guys dealing with that in your startup?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Look. The, being in the analytics inside space, we are certainly you know, we are working with, our our customer or, or client's data. So we are not in the world of, you know, worrying about underlying biases or or having to create synthetic data to to to create assumptions and and decisions out of that. I think so. For our world, it's quite straightforward where we have the right regulatory framework in terms of SOC 2 compliance, etcetera, to make sure that we are treating the data that we are, taking from a customer or from external source in a very responsible way, analyzing it, driving the insights, and and playing it back, with the with the good level of accuracy and granularity.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So that's that's the answer to kind of kind of the world that that that, that I'm in right now. To the wider question that you're asking. I don't consider myself at all an expert in this topic, which is I genuinely feel we're at a, you know, an an chapter one of quality ethics of AI, etcetera. Personally, my approach to this is to take time to learn and understand. Yes. You know, I think there's some really important regulation that is being shaped, etcetera. It is, the the different, there's so many different stakeholders involved. But as an organization, small or big, I actually think it's important right now to take time to to to to listen and and talk and talk to as many key experts.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:Absolutely. I think, you're right. So I just wanna stay on the theme of responsible ethical AI, but in a very completely different context. I know that, you know, in your free time or spare time, you're on the board of 1 of the UK's best, girls schools or women's schools, if you call it that. And I know that in the education system as well, the use of AI is hotly debated.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:So, you know, given the fact that you have that vantage point, any thoughts for our listeners? Because many of our listeners are also, you know, they're they're either parents or they have got, you know, siblings who are dealing with this in their education system. Any any views there?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:No. Thanks for raising this. It's a it's a topic I'm passionate about also being the the father of 2 to 2 girls, one a teenager now and and, one, in in primary. I think it's a it's again an area where I think what we're doing, as as as governors of is to firstly educate ourselves. I think the first step is, look, there's a lot happening out there.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So, there are so many different shades to this. Firstly, it's, what how could the school itself as a as a as a as as an entity, as a business, do the same things like grapple with the same questions that organizations are facing? So that's the topic. That's 1. 2nd is, well, how do we help our our our girls actually embrace the world of AI in a meaningful way?
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:And this is the kind of projects they could be indulging in, in their late teens as going to what kind of how do they there are lots of the you know, how do you inject that into some of the extracurricular activity that is happening in in the sciences, etcetera, which is which is very much doable, outside, obviously, influencing core curriculum that has to be done in partnership, obviously, with government and and, and the ministers. So that that's a topic we are actively working on saying, well, how do we make sure? Firstly, you know, there is initially almost like, oh my god. This is you know, you go through a phase of, oh, this is not going to affect schools, you know, or this is not something for us because we have x or y to focus on. I think you go from there to actually let's embrace it.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:Let's educate ourselves. Let's find meaningful ways that, and what's interesting is that you also you what what's probably true even in in my home is that the your daughters or sons are actually telling you things that you don't know. That was true even of, through the whole social commerce. I was the one I was taught about Instagram and TikTok from my daughter rather than knowing anything about it myself. Same thing is is happening in this world.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So I think what's important is to really encourage and I know certainly as as governor, I'm saying, let's be open open minded. Let's educate ourselves. Let's let's help, make some interesting good choices for the school and how we can actually be seen to be innovative for, for making sure girls are best prepared as they as they leave school, at least in a level of awareness and having done some practical projects and innovation. So I think that's the zone we are in. I do think also that over the coming years, there will be a more serious question being asked about how does it influence curriculum, how does it influence the kind of things we do, how do we prepare, you know, the conversation about what are the right what are the jobs of the future, and how do you those those traditional, there are there are quite a few back to the conversation we had earlier on, there's so many areas of business that are getting disrupted.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So the jobs that you think today are the the jobs to go for are the most, you know, or or people aspire. I think they will change. And so what could you actually how do you actually prepare your girls and boys as they leave 6th form or head into university in the best possible way? How do you one of the things we're thinking about is how do you bring corporates and I mean, closer to schools in terms of finding collaborative ways to partner, to engage, for because, again, we're in a world when you when you're in the middle of a revolution, you just actually don't know that things that have been true for the last 5 years are probably not gonna be true for the next 5 years. So I think the best thing we can do is, in our responsible roles, is to challenge ourselves and and think 2 steps ahead.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:So that's the journey we are on. But I I actually think the education sector has has a lot a key part to play both in terms of as a recipient to all this change, but also in participating and preparing the leaders of tomorrow.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:Very, very sage advice, Vivek. And like you said, revolutions are probably best understood in the rearview mirror. But when one is in the midst of 1, you just have to engage. Not engaging is not an option. But, thank you so much. This has been a fascinating conversation. Lots of perspectives. Really grateful for your time.
Vivek Ganotra, Co-Founder - Sentisum:I really enjoyed it, Srikanth. Thank you for inviting me.
Srikanth Iyengar, CEO upGrad Enterprise:And that concludes another episode of the GenAIrous Podcast. We are very grateful to our guests for their time and expertise. A big thank you to our producer, Shantha Shankar in Delhi, and our audio engineer, Nitin Shams in Berlin, for making magic happen behind the scenes. Join us next time, and don't forget to subscribe to GenAIrous wherever you listen to your podcasts.