The Third Beer with Keiron Byrne (again)

This week on the Third Beer Podcast, Chris Dickson and I are lucky enough to be joined for the third time by our good friend, Keiron Byrne. Keiron is a psychologist specialising in positive psychology, as well as a high-school basketball coach. I don’t know why he keeps coming back, as an allergy to fructose keeps him from drinking beer with us, but he must just like our company.
Despite the lack of Dutch courage, we still manage to go deep about subjects most blokes find difficult to talk about. We discuss the overwhelming fatigue felt by a lot of people this year, going deep into and struggling (or not wanting) to get back out of our caves, and whether we are being alive every day, or dying every day.
Crack a cold one, and listen to the full episode of the Full Beer Podcast here. Enjoy, cheers!

What is The Third Beer Podcast?

The Third Beer is a regular Podcast hosted by Psychologist Chris Dickson and Brett McCallum. Each week they invite a special guest into the studio to talk about men’s health, mental health and general wellbeing whilst sharing a few beers. The focus is on those subjects that blokes find it hard to talk about. Brett has already shared a year-long mental health journey with the help of Chris, and although he is still a work-in-progress, Brett has seen himself become a better human being. While the chat with each week’s special guest will take place in a very informal setting and with an informal style, the conversation and topics are taken 100% seriously. Lets break down personal and world issues, one beer at a time.

0 (0s):
This is a pod fire production.

1 (4s):
This podcast may include explicit themes or swearing. They may not be suitable for children.

0 (15s):
The first B goes down easy. It's bubbly. It's sweet tickles the back of your throat.

1 (21s):
The second biggest on do, enjoy it and kick back. You tend to be more relaxed.

0 (26s):
The deep breath that is the third day there, when hit that far for a certain mellowness comes over to golden light nectar. I would describe the pub turns an ordinary happy place and hit that spot. That's just,

1 (39s):
And they all said beer is a special gas state twice. So we get to interview and have a chat to not only about the beach, but also about life and other stuff that men don't talk about.

0 (49s):
Hello, I'm Chris Dickson. And we'd like to talk about the third beer.

1 (1m 1s):
Yeah, we'll come back. It's been a little wall. My griddle on wall. Well, I hear a roommate you've been in a cave. I have

0 (1m 10s):
Has that. Well, that's what we're going to

1 (1m 11s):
Talk about that. Oh, I can't kind of white and I'll say you're brought back and I'll fight it with you. We have you bought, we know. Oh, he's a good

0 (1m 18s):
Look. And chat's the old Karen bed here

1 (1m 21s):
For having me back. No worries, champ. Good to see ya. I'm

0 (1m 24s):
Just enjoying the new

1 (1m 25s):
Chairs. The DJ is a sensation that makes the market a little bit higher and I think that gives us a better volume. And have you been good, busy, busy as fuck. Wow. That's an unusual disease. Let's say what we need to do. We haven't cracked it yet. We've got to crack it. We'll go to crackers for it. All right. Like today's be, it hasn't been a label on it. Right? And the reason it hasn't the label on it is because it's a Blakey brew and the Blakey brew is a new beer that we've just launched from. The shop does now downstairs in my office called rip and collect. I'll talk about that in a sec. Seems like we have a new sponsor. We do good. A good idea and a good idea. And black Hebrews, the first full celiac beer. So it's got, if you're a celiac, you can actually drink this stuff. And we know that cause Blakey is a celiac and he didn't die when he drank it.

1 (2m 10s):
Whew. Hey, go down. We're not testing on you though, but we know, we know that isn't it? Yeah. So I'm ready to go. You ready to go? It's going to be, it's a different Tyson station and I've lost the . So we need to correct that again. I

0 (2m 21s):
Didn't lie. They could Chuck her anyway. Oh, I

1 (2m 23s):
Haven't. Oh, that's not too bad. It's going to be the air in it. You're always the best Papa. Any, I got a popper, bro. You'll throw

0 (2m 39s):
You back. Good to say a big pillow. You tape a

1 (2m 42s):
Cool, it's got a different taste.

0 (2m 46s):
It's got up. It's

1 (2m 46s):
Got a fragrance. And now I reckon at tie, it reminds me of golden syrup. The fragrance is it?

0 (2m 53s):
Same thing to get that. Damn.

1 (2m 55s):
I wanted to get rid of the frog. Ooh, that's different. Oh,

2 (3m 4s):
Good. Strong.

1 (3m 5s):
Nah, it's just tossing tastes like

0 (3m 6s):
Beer tastes like it smells. Can I am, do you want

1 (3m 9s):
To sniff

0 (3m 11s):
You pretty much know what it tastes like by that? Okay.

1 (3m 14s):
What can you smell? What can you smell in that?

2 (3m 19s):
I don't know how to describe it. It's it's out of like sweet, but it's a nice is yeast. You smell the yeast in it.

1 (3m 28s):
Can we have your east as a sealer or you don't let your children that you know, you're going to finish this part. The

0 (3m 33s):
Rule smells like fresh pancakes, but

2 (3m 36s):
It isn't like a fresh doughy taste like

1 (3m 39s):
Smell. Cause it's not maple. It's more golden I reckon. All right. Anyway. Well, jeez went back

0 (3m 48s):
Boys. We're back and I've organized this session cause I'm curious, curious, curious, curious to know where we are and how we got here. I've been in shot down for at least six months, emotionally with friends with, with community. Or I have just retreated to my little cave, gone to work, hung out with my girlfriend gone home. That's been my life hanging out with the kids

1 (4m 14s):
Rather than

0 (4m 15s):
Deeply meditating sort of meditative practice. So it hasn't been an unproductive time, but it's been a, a reclusive kind of isolating spice. So I'm here to reconnect. I'm here to understand I'm here to he, whether or not you've been in similar spices. I'm curious to know what you've done with your time and that's where I'm at. That's what I want to know today. So I don't want to talk about a topic. Awesome. I want to talk about you Brett. And I want to talk about U K V. I want to talk about, I want to share where we're at and how we got here. Love it. All right there.

0 (4m 55s):
That's all I thought I'd set up today.

1 (4m 58s):
This is first. How you going?

2 (5m 2s):
I'm tired. I'm tired. Yeah. I think I'm tired the best way to put it. I think I'm

1 (5m 8s):
Physically, mentally,

0 (5m 9s):
Emotionally,

2 (5m 11s):
Universally, spiritually, universally, just, just fatigue. Like there's nothing, nothing to pinpoint precisely like, you know, nothing that it's going on. Yeah. Like, yeah, like I worked really hard or you know, like it just seems to be the end of a era or period or

1 (5m 31s):
The white of negativity in the world that's causing you to be tired.

2 (5m 37s):
Well, I mean, it could be, I haven't thought about it from that angle, but yeah, just a, an overwhelming sense of fatigue. I'm tired. Probably the best way to do.

1 (5m 48s):
Yeah. I'm hearing that. Yeah. Feeling similar. Where are you? Yeah. Well, I'm tired. It's a really good word. I reckon at the moment I'm busier than I've been in a long time, but this much going on. And normally for me that makes me move forward. Whereas now I'm getting to, I have 9 30, 10 o'clock at night falling asleep on the couch. So physically I'm naked. I was crook for a little while. I was naughty and got diverticulitis again and had a couple of weeks out. But that was month and a half ago. Now it is. Why in tonight? What do you think you're whining or I can I hit one 20? You know, I reckon I'm banking on one 20 plus I secret,

0 (6m 29s):
Well, he had a suspicion that none of us had moved forward from the last time that we spoke.

1 (6m 35s):
And this sounds very familiar because we spoke about the cave and you went fucking deep into the cave.

0 (6m 41s):
It really came back then, but I was still engaging in communicating. I just stopped all that completely.

1 (6m 49s):
And how do you stop it? Was it a conscious decision? Was it something from the kids on the misses or what was it? Something that triggered them? Ah, fuck it. I'm just going to go jump in the car. Evil. Was it slightly edging your ass,

0 (7m 4s):
Reach out and send out a text, see how people go and kind of communicate. But I just stopped. And the longer I stopped, the more comfortable I become, the harder it became to communicate. When I did have communication outside of work or with family or with the close unit, it would get complicated and confused quite quickly. I was local. I couldn't vibe with other people

1 (7m 31s):
And he's that cause you didn't want it.

0 (7m 36s):
I became very

1 (7m 36s):
Comfortable

0 (7m 37s):
Not to have to.

1 (7m 41s):
Okay. That doesn't make sense.

0 (7m 44s):
I can't burn one. Understand what I'm talking about, but you know, you have a different experience. Do you understand what I'm mean? No. Do you understand what I mean?

2 (7m 52s):
I got a hundred percent

1 (7m 55s):
Mean,

2 (7m 56s):
Ah, it's just, it's it's a really, really comforting, nice. Just like, like darkness, stillness, not having to engage with anyone or anything. And you just reduce all the stimulus. Almost like the lights are all turned down. You don't have to deal with anything. You don't have to go through any processes of, you know, trying to understand what people are saying, how they feeling, you know, but even not just people, but you know, workplaces or dynamics, you don't have to feel much at all in an engaged way. You're aware

0 (8m 36s):
Of things happening. I don't even go into say an activity.

2 (8m 40s):
What do you mean by

0 (8m 41s):
The I'd usually have to go for a surf or go to yoga or, I mean, I kept going to yoga. I kept that. I didn't have to, I could be at home by myself doing nothing and just feel better.

2 (8m 52s):
I could just do nothing and feel bliss. Absolutely. Hundred percent that

0 (8m 56s):
Doing something is not going to bring me any more joy than what I have by doing nothing

2 (9m 1s):
At all or talking to anyone or

0 (9m 5s):
Anyone's going to give me anything.

1 (9m 7s):
And what are you doing now during that time? Nothing. Literally nothing,

2 (9m 11s):
Literally

1 (9m 11s):
Nothing you sitting on the couch, but is there a television on,

0 (9m 15s):
It can be a tele on sometimes it's not, sometimes you just fall in Washington

2 (9m 20s):
Sometimes. Sometimes you just

1 (9m 22s):
Be just playing. It's interesting. You say that, but you kind

0 (9m 25s):
Of, it becomes seductive. It becomes a learning. It becomes,

2 (9m 31s):
I think addictive

0 (9m 33s):
Does become addictive. It becomes a drug. Or if I don't need you or I don't need an activity or I don't need work or I don't need a wage. I don't need anything at all. And I can be as happy as big and shit. What do I do anything at all?

2 (9m 48s):
I agree. I like, why would you do anything at all? Like what else is there besides peace, happiness breathing. It's a, and that's,

1 (9m 56s):
That's it. As long as you continue doing that, because that's the most

2 (9m 59s):
Important thing you can, you can do that. Just, you know, just by doing it consciously. Yeah. Just, just by enjoying that stuff.

1 (10m 5s):
So Nancy there, she could say that because I have relaxed. That's one thing I have done since we last saw each I've relaxed. A lot more of children a lot. No, I have a slide download

0 (10m 14s):
This. Isn't supporting this just in your brief statements you've made, I've gotten on. Well, very, very busy.

1 (10m 23s):
No, no, but what I mean on the lanch, but what I'm saying though, is if I die actually do something in the past. I would have sat there and go, oh fuck, I really need to do that now. Where do I as now? Fuck it. I'll do it tomorrow. There's a lot more of that creeping into my lifestyle. I'm still going to do it. And I get an idea every single day I always have. And instead of acting upon it, I'll tell one of the goals or I've now bought in people to run the companies. So I don't have to do it. So they're out a little Palm off. See if you like of doing that, they're starting to slide in delegation. Delegation. Great word. Very hard to do is probably the hardest thing to do in business is delegate because no one does it as good to you.

1 (11m 4s):
It's a really difficult thing to do, but I quite enjoy delegation. It's interesting, but it's still my favorite part of the day is going to sit on the side of the bed, spend my five minutes in mind had I can, I will. I'm open to receive every single day. You sit there for five minutes and that's what goes on to my neck. Stretches do my back stretches and still my favorite thing to do. I was done. They're going to do it for more than five minutes. That's the only issue. I think

0 (11m 30s):
That's what we're talking about. Imagine doing that all day.

2 (11m 35s):
That's what I was going to say and say that's, that's literally what it is, but you're giving, you're delegating everything to the universe, like all the time. Yeah. So it's the same idea. It's just literally someone else to do that job.

0 (11m 49s):
How did you find yourself there? Burn and has it been productive? You changed or am I talking to the same burn that I spoke to in April? Because we really haven't had any contact. I haven't had contact with burn. I haven't got that with you. This is me in green gauging. I love it. How are you?

1 (12m 8s):
Bye. You too brother.

2 (12m 12s):
Yeah. I think that, I think that I've, I would say that I've changed considerably, but I'm not like looking into that extensively, like trying to analyze it. I'm just because I've changed. I am prioritizing. I'm letting go more prioritizing things differently. Minimizing things, seeing my interactions with people differently, feeling things differently, experiencing,

0 (12m 45s):
I mean, there's a wonderfully abstract and I miss those conversations. But

1 (12m 49s):
Interesting part about this is this is a very similar conversation we had in April. You were starting to crawl back in your cave and you were, they assigned I'd really like to do.

0 (12m 59s):
I think I said I was standing at the door,

1 (13m 2s):
The door, you were ready to rock and roll and you were going to Africa. I can't even speak. I'd love to go back and go into a cave. But did you get there or are you still on the way there?

2 (13m 11s):
No, I think that we

0 (13m 13s):
Call it deep cave,

2 (13m 15s):
Deep, deep KV.

0 (13m 18s):
It's actually, because I think men do this and I think men cut themselves off from our relationships and social connection. Why? I think because of this, it's it feels really good. And then you're in a relationship and you've got kids and then all of a sudden you're divorced and you disconnect from a few friends and you're completely isolated. I think this happens to men all the time. I

1 (13m 37s):
Agree. A hundred percent.

0 (13m 39s):
And it's a lot of effort. The men to keep those social networks alive, where women seem to put that effort in, you know, speaking,

1 (13m 49s):
Not onto a topic, generic

0 (13m 51s):
Kind of women or men or the same

1 (13m 54s):
As you think it would be the other way. Cause the blokes out of the pub with them, I told her for a punt with their minds, whereas they actually don't right. That's my question. I don't know. I don't, that's fine.

0 (14m 5s):
And some people exercise with people, fucking phone to do that.

2 (14m 10s):
Yeah. I, I think that I just stopped contacting people. I just don't talk to anyone really. And so

0 (14m 19s):
You're going to use an example of how you have fallen in on you.

2 (14m 26s):
Well, I think that's yeah, so just onto that, like just stop contacting people, stop reaching out to people, stop checking in with people. Literally the, the people I interact with our group of coaches that I work with at St. James, you know, who are, you know, we're all very much on the same page. And we have these kinds of conversations all the time, you know, whilst we're coaching and interacting with the kids and trying to figure out the best way to yeah. Mentor and help these kids, like where I'm really lucky that in that environment, we can have these conversations every day.

1 (14m 60s):
But what are the conversations you're having? Cause it wouldn't be ladies conversations about going into a cave and stuff.

2 (15m 4s):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. These conversations are cool. So we've just started,

0 (15m 9s):
You just found a new group. You haven't realized that you haven't

2 (15m 12s):
Gone to go that always there, like that was that we just never had these conversations

1 (15m 17s):
Opened it up or did they listen to you on one of these? No,

2 (15m 20s):
We've always had,

0 (15m 22s):
Like you just found another outlet.

2 (15m 25s):
Okay. That's supposed to what

0 (15m 27s):
It sounds like you've found another space to have these conversations.

1 (15m 34s):
Did you have them before? Other than with us?

2 (15m 38s):
I dunno. I don't think so. I don't really think I was having yeah, no, I don't think I was, I don't think I was having these. I was having them with Chris obviously and you know, once every, and I look forward to them, but I don't think I was ever having this kind of depth of conversation and this, you know, inquiry and wandering and you know, I've never, well, I don't remember having, you know, a group of people who were interested in these kinds of conversations and constantly bringing in, you know, topics and questioning and you know, and, and engaging in that way, there was probably a lot of smaller like conversations going on with a lot of different people around a whole bunch of different topics.

2 (16m 19s):
And I was probably having these conversations with myself, if anything, you know, and figuring stuff out, using different relationships to explore them.

0 (16m 29s):
But the pennies just

2 (16m 30s):
Dropped go.

0 (16m 33s):
You did diversify. So why? I mean, I am having these conversations just with the same people I was talking to them before. I suppose. That's

1 (16m 43s):
Interesting. So do you D does that lock? I, well, I'll say back in the old days, but like it's a different group of people you're talking to now because they actually understand, oh yeah, you got your mates, you go for a beer, go for pub, whatever it is. Right. But then you've got those few people in your life like us where we can talk like this. Right. Yeah. And then there's a couple more people because I think you're now attracting those type of people that you can actually start to have more and more conversation.

2 (17m 14s):
It's interesting. I can't explain it. All I know is that basically there's very few people who obviously I've met, who I've been to have these conversations with. Chris has one of them, you know, and, and even if I want to think about it, you know, there's very few people that are,

1 (17m 29s):
You're chatting to the kids about this as well, or you're saying, how are they taking that?

2 (17m 34s):
They, they, you know, probably just sit there and think we're crazy, but

0 (17m 38s):
That's okay. I think they take to it a little bit easier than, you know, cause they're often going through transition and changes in and

2 (17m 44s):
Well, and to be honest, they want real conversations as well. Like yeah, well, they're, they're dealing with what they're doing with them, their worlds. It's very, very, you know, superficial, transient the way the internet is, the way phones, all that stuff is, you know, the, the conversations we have, you know, are really, Hey, what do you think about this? Who are you where you're going, where do you want to be? You know, is that enough? You know, to do it this way, you know? And if it is, that's great, but if not, you have a choice, you know, like we're in these conversations constantly. That's awesome. Yeah. And they, and it changed the whole environment and the culture and, and, and we've got this. What's been cool. Is that because now we've got, yeah, like five other people who are also having these conversations with these kids and, and with the coaching that we do, we will coach at the same time at the same group of kids, there's 30 kids, 35 kids, five coaches, having these conversations, different people, doing different things.

2 (18m 41s):
There's like a critical mass. Now, whether it's just information, just a dialogue, which we talked about a long time ago with David for 20 years,

0 (18m 50s):
Again, it's becoming a lot more common, isn't it? It's almost like society.

2 (18m 55s):
Gotcha. Yeah. So, you know, David Boehme w you know, the book he gave me on dialogue and we, we, but now it's actually happening. So like, instead of us talking about it, and we, you know, we'd had these amazing conversations. Now there's a whole group of people having these conversations, and we've got people in extra ones coming in and they understand what we're talking about. Cause it's just been going on now for about 10 years. So like, probably like, like small bits, but now it's this critical mass and it's just kind of developing into something entirely different.

1 (19m 25s):
It's because you have such a big influence on these kids. Like something I've done during this break, because I've got back into basketball. Right. And I love my basketball. I coach my kids' teams now at the school and we're starting to seamless sort of a thing. Right. I make sure that every kid that comes up to me, whether I'm the twelves on the 15th TennCare, we shake hands. We say, good day, we look each other in the eye, just little things like that. And every single player on that team, even if they didn't know each other have now become together, because that's part of the why that I coach and I teach people is the fact that you're doing these for each other. You're not doing it for yourself. What I want you to hold the ball. If you do something stupid, let's chat about it. Let's not whack your mind in the back of the head to type stuff. But at the same time is when they're sat next to you on the bench and you can actually have an adult conversation with them about what's going on.

1 (20m 12s):
And they tell you about everything, like way too much stuff, but they tell you about everything. And I think that's because the people around them have been sharing it with them for a longer period of time. Like you've now you've actually made a fundamental change to how long they, even if it's 10 years, probably 300, 400 kids lives who have then shared that with one or two of their minds. And now they've all pretty much starting to say critical mass microwave of people. I think it's fucking awesome. It's pretty

2 (20m 38s):
Crazy. These kids taught you

1 (20m 41s):
How to be camera. How not to call them dickheads. At the age of 12, I learned that really early on and not them. We'll never call my own team as one of the opposition, but that's fine. We might go there. And that's a long story now, but just they've taught me to relax a bit more. They've told me that sorta I get fired up as a coach and want them to do better for themselves. But at the same time is they are only the age they are. So I coach my twelves team completely different than my fifteens team. We sat down at the start of this season with the 15 and said, boys, there's two options. You can just go and have fun. And my grand does mites, or we can win the tournament. Which one do you want to do? And they said, what's the difference. We can have fun and win the tournament, but we're going to be serious.

1 (21m 23s):
We're going to play a proper boss, but we're going to do this. Or you can have a muck around with, you might see on a Friday night, if you pick the first, that's fine. I'm not going to actually coach you for basketball or hope in life. But if you want to win the tournament, cartoon basketball, and we can actually play proper moves and do all that sort of stuff. And they chose the latter because they wanted to win. And it's like, they've now taught me different ways of thinking and looking at things.

0 (21m 44s):
So right there is the harder dialogue. He post a question. Yeah. As opposed to this is what we're going to do, got a choice a hundred percent. Or we can,

1 (21m 52s):
We a hundred percent I'll watch the TV show called new Amsterdam. And it was all about how can I help this guy comes into this new organization. Hospitals has, how can I help? And the answer was, yes, can I have this? Yes. Can I have that? Yes. Can I do that? Why? And, but the whole thing was, how can I help? How can I help make you a better human being or make that better or make that better? And that was the attitude and changed. Everything. Changes your view on thing. If then if you don't have to answer a question, but you can sit there and go, how can I help? Whether it's good, bad or ugly. It doesn't matter. You actually look at the perspective in a different way.

0 (22m 33s):
Yeah. Okay. So you ask questions now. Not deliver sermons. Yeah. Pretty much interesting. Isn't that?

1 (22m 39s):
Yeah. Funny that, hold on. Thank you very much. I feel good. Jeez. Hey, it tastes better. The further it gets down, I can tell you

0 (22m 47s):
It's like drinking syrup at the beginning, but it does not burn. How have you, have you grown?

2 (22m 53s):
Well, I think I was gonna say before, like just basically, because now that we've got this critical mass, I don't feel like I need to facilitate anymore. I can sort of let that go and duck in duck out, enjoy it more and start to yeah. Have space and yeah. Literally not talk to other people and not stay back in the cage. Yeah, exactly. Like, like literally just not just not talk to anyone. So just more, more neat thing. Just go through routines and, and, you know, do what you do. And don't feel like I have to coach cause there's people doing, you know, the same quality job that I'm doing, you know, and I don't really have anything, so there's nothing really going on.

2 (23m 36s):
So it's kind of, which is really, really different. So I've either, I guess in my life, I've either gone through a stage of really, really pushing hard researching improvement and then getting to a pinnacle and then letting that grow and settle and like, you know, consolidate, consolidate, and then, and then going again and you know, I haven't, I'm sorry,

0 (24m 0s):
Cave consolidation,

2 (24m 5s):
Mikayla. I've consolidated over the last, you know, five years, six years, like just being, you know, sort of rolling with, with whatever it is. And now I'm like no way

0 (24m 18s):
The purpose. My question. What is the purpose of the cave?

2 (24m 24s):
Well, for me, it's been nowhere.

1 (24m 26s):
That's so interesting. I'm now nowhere.

2 (24m 28s):
Yeah. I'm now nowhere. And

0 (24m 30s):
When you look at nowhere, it's actually spelled now he

2 (24m 36s):
, you have been in the cage, you've worked this out. You've done a lot of reflection. I like it,

1 (24m 45s):
But that's a long term. Drop that one over there.

2 (24m 49s):
That's what happens in here.

1 (24m 50s):
Okay. Well, do you use that? That's cool.

2 (24m 54s):
So yeah, so that's so it's, I feel entirely changed or different, but just not really sure what that looks like. Cause it's, I'm not, it wasn't a deliberate thing where it previously is always deliberate. I would have a goal of purpose. I want to do that. I'd go do that. I'd achieve that. And then that would shape the next few years. Now, there hasn't been any of that directional goal attainment, you know, research, focus, study, whatever

0 (25m 24s):
Sure what the time is, but I'm going to drop the Mike. Is it not my will, but thy will

2 (25m 31s):
Do me.

0 (25m 32s):
You know, it's not your plan anymore burden. You've given up to a higher purpose. Okay. God

1 (25m 39s):
Wait, did we really well, 29 minutes?

0 (25m 45s):
Well, you know what I mean? Not my will, but I will letting it go. Not having

2 (25m 50s):
Yeah. Just say it and go see what happens next. It's lovely. It's and to me, that's being in the case,

1 (25m 56s):
But what he's next? Do you know what's next? Or just happens? I have no idea.

0 (25m 60s):
Do you know what's next GK

2 (26m 2s):
Done? Ashy. Okay.

0 (26m 3s):
That's the beauty of,

2 (26m 6s):
I saw what happened. It's like, something's definitely, it's always happened, but I don't know what it is or when, or

1 (26m 11s):
It's just when that happens.

2 (26m 13s):
Well, you all know what to do

0 (26m 14s):
All this life. What about you, Brett? Do you understand?

1 (26m 20s):
Absolutely fucking idea. I can do that now, but I love talking about it because I get bits of it. Like I understand the, to me it's like the subtle art of not giving a fuck. Like just don't give a fuck about that. So what bullet, like I, I say that to the guys all the time, does it actually matter? Like even with the kids, is they do something well, so who, and like with the wife, if she's getting mad at someone we'll just breathe out. Like there's no use that. They can keep whatever that is. Right. It's like, I get that a bit, but just not knowing what's not, no one knows what's next, but that's it not being prepared for.

2 (26m 59s):
This is really interesting exam yesterday. I had a young lady who wanted me to do some coaching with basketball coaching and she came to

1 (27m 7s):
Training.

2 (27m 10s):
We have Santa fixed. Now

1 (27m 12s):
We've upgraded the sandwich and the bottle on the mark,

2 (27m 16s):
I come to training and I didn't really know I was going to do with it because, you know, she's pretty good basketball and she's had a lot of training and she's trying to always the people. So she has all this information going in and I'm like, well, I don't know what to do. And, and she was like, oh, I want to work on, you know, passing and cutting. I'm like, okay. And then, so then we, I watched, you know, do a little bit of scrimmaging and then we went down to a bottom court and basically had a conversation for an hour with no, no basketballs on the court, discussing the, the ideas and philosophies and purposes of spacing, timing, passing, cutting, who she wants to be, who she is. How does that, how does that interaction affect, you know, other players on the court?

2 (27m 58s):
Like how does she, you know, body light? And we just had this whole conversation that came out of that was what was required for that session. But there was no planning it, I had no idea what was going to do and it just kind of manifested itself. And it was, you know, it was a really, really good opportunity to share that time with her. And, you know, it was relevant to her, you know, she needed that information at that time. So

1 (28m 23s):
Probably the best session she's ever had

2 (28m 25s):
And, and, you know, most relevant sessions just like made sense. And she was like, that's, that's awesome. Thank you. And then that was it. And, but that's, to me a real example in the sense of when you just open to whatever comes, comes, then you know what to do when it's time to do

1 (28m 43s):
So. I do that now I'll wing it as they want to call it that like, if I go and speak on stage and never pay, I know what the topic is. Or I know a little bits of it, but never actually prepare a written speech. Cause I'd fuck the speech up every single time I had to read it. Yeah. So I, and the times I go into a meeting, I won't take notes with me. I'll take notes during, but not with me. And I'll just wing it because it's all up here, you know, what's going on. So I get that bit. I understand that part. Yeah. So it's just doing that across life. Really? Yeah. What are you going to look so fit? You look pretty cut. So yoga, all the biggest Skiles 70 IQ wise.

1 (29m 27s):
It's all muscle. I disagree with pounds. It's all muscle. You don't look , you look fit. I'm starting the lane up starting to get into some stuff, but I am, but what's that from yoga or whatever, from a bit of white skull on the

0 (29m 41s):
Bike

1 (29m 43s):
During the cave time.

0 (29m 44s):
Yeah. I've started to try and run again. Pain points and basketball scenes got right into basketball, which is quite interesting. Awesome. The three foot kid, the other day basketball, but it was kind of football because we played a bit rough. But

2 (30m 1s):
Is that possible? Should we play? Yeah, exactly.

0 (30m 3s):
You know, so are you closer, closer to who you want to be? Brett?

1 (30m 9s):
It's a good question. Who do I want to be? Oh, huh. Maybe

2 (30m 15s):
I eat clothes though. Hmm.

1 (30m 21s):
Do you know the answer?

0 (30m 26s):
Yeah.

2 (30m 27s):
What about, are you sorry? Are you, you're not close or you don't know the answer. Okay. You don't know

1 (30m 35s):
Be done on what the end is.

0 (30m 39s):
Pretty sure I'm going to die.

2 (30m 44s):
That's funny because I was having this thought like, like gala day, I was like, yeah, pretty sure I'm dying today. Just generally speaking, I'm dying. Like I'm dying unto yourself. You know, you want to just dying constantly. It's really interesting.

1 (31m 3s):
So as opposed to I'm living, I'm actually dying,

2 (31m 6s):
Constantly dying. Every breath, every breath year did die.

1 (31m 10s):
Fuck. That's David. Isn't that opposite to what you all should not should is the wrong word that you want to be.

2 (31m 16s):
Society teaches you. Why,

1 (31m 18s):
But what do you want to be? Do you want to be alive or do you want to be deed

0 (31m 21s):
What you want see relevant.

2 (31m 23s):
Yeah. So there's that wanting is not important. It's you're literally dying every second. Why do we look at that negatively?

1 (31m 30s):
So that's positive, is it?

0 (31m 32s):
Yeah. I use believe you have a certain out breaths predetermined at the point of birth and therefore, you know, managing your breath increases your lifespan, but it's all predestined, you know, like you've got some health issues, Brit, your head, you all yet had had, you're also at your, at your top end to your way towards, yeah. We've talked about this before. There were a couple of years in, well, where's the way we were. I'm not in a healthy space or might look like, but I'm not, I'm not in a great physical, spiritual space and probably to get back there. But

1 (32m 5s):
Ah, why are you trying to get back there if you Dawn everyday?

0 (32m 10s):
Cause I want a toy. Well,

1 (32m 13s):
That's deep. How does one dog? Well, you know,

0 (32m 17s):
Well, as healthy as you can be to the moment you fall over

1 (32m 20s):
What? Well,

0 (32m 22s):
For me it means losing a bit of, a bit of fat

1 (32m 26s):
It's fat Welles. Wellnesses down the body

0 (32m 29s):
Walk-ins and digestive system and leave our, and I've had a whole lot of, I went to a natural path that has been a godsend, kind of reestablish some balance in my adrenaline lands and sleep. And it's been, that's going to be the God said, but that's just,

1 (32m 46s):
Doesn't that go against the whole just being and not giving a fuck and just living. Well,

0 (32m 52s):
I think that's how I got to where I am,

2 (32m 54s):
But I think this is the, this is actually the, when the brain kicks in and starts analyzing and starts trying to locate things and have purpose. Yeah. Okay. Let's let's just break it all down. That's where people get confused. Like, you know, cause dying has so many connotations, you know, so all this negative, cause you, you know, you're focusing on death or whatever. It's like, no, I'm not focusing on death. I'm aware that I'm dying. I know that I'm gonna die. And I'm at peace with that. That's okay. Which gives me freedom and, and appreciate every moment. Like now I'm in this space of love because I'm loving everything. Cause I know that I'm dying. I'm not like looking forward to tomorrow and hopefully tomorrow is a better day. I'm like none of that. This is actually an amazing conversation with two amazing humans.

2 (33m 34s):
This is pretty fucking cool. You know, but that's because I'm aware that this could be the last conversation I have is how fucking cool is this conversation?

1 (33m 42s):
Are you actually aware of that? Or it's just not even in your head of

2 (33m 47s):
Dying or

1 (33m 48s):
Like, like you just said, you're aware that this is, could be the last conversation.

2 (33m 52s):
No, I'm aware of it.

0 (33m 55s):
And I agree and I think that's what the cave.

2 (33m 58s):
Yeah. But I chose today to come and talk to you guys. I was excited by it. You know, like, like, and appreciating I could do something, I could just stay at home. And I was like, why am I driving here? I could just be at home and do nothing today. And I was like, cause I really wanna have this conversation. I would call out the guys for a while and I appreciate it. And you know, like I could just sit at home and do nothing, but this is a choice. It's not a there's no other external

1 (34m 21s):
Factors involved. No, it

2 (34m 22s):
Was again, looking at dying, like

0 (34m 25s):
Talking about giving up,

2 (34m 28s):
Giving up, basically

1 (34m 30s):
Keep me up. What are you giving into? If you give me in, what,

2 (34m 34s):
What did you ever have? Yeah. What did you have that you've given up

0 (34m 38s):
The idea that I had some sort of control.

1 (34m 42s):
So do you reckon Diego non-control?

0 (34m 48s):
Well, a couple of facts. I like to bring to my clients to help thicken this conversation is did you know that we are spinning eastwardly in a thousand kilometers an hour right now? So bring that into your awareness right now with some meaning. Okay. And then did you know that we're traveling around the sun and an anti-clockwise direction and 108,000 kilometers an hour and process that. And then think about the fact that our son's going around the galaxy at a whopping 200 and 736,000 kilometers an hour. And then this is what really gets your noodle. Did you know our whole galaxies moving through space at a whopping 2.1 million kilometers.

0 (35m 28s):
Now, now what part of that? Do I control

1 (35m 34s):
None of it.

0 (35m 36s):
And it isn't that it's pretty, very

1 (35m 38s):
Good. Actually. My, what you said, all those things, my whole body just sort of started moving, you know, I felt a little bit dizzy, but yeah, it's good.

0 (35m 48s):
Which brings us to the point of the uncertainty principle. He goes guys know about the uncertainty principle. So not at Western physics. Okay. So I can talk about how fast something is moving. But if I do, I can't tell you where it is. And if I talk about where it is, I can't actually comment about how fast it's moving. And because I can't talk about this two things at once, I'm kind of in a paradox where I can only really talk about one thing at a time, that's it? And as everything's in a state of flux, I'm kind of backed away here and said for nowhere. And that for me just actually is very liberating.

2 (36m 25s):
And no, only that like literally this always blew my mind is how the brain works. Like, you know, the brain sensors come in process in your brain. That information is already the past that you can't do anything about. You know? So then in the future hasn't happened yet. So you can't do anything like that. So literally everything you're experiencing or you think you're experiencing at any time is, is transient. So, you know, when we talk about control, we talk about anything like that. It's like, like just enjoy it because you can just enjoy whatever it is that's happening, as opposed to trying to control it. Cause it's, it's an illusion. Yeah. It's just an illusion that the brain wants to believe that you're controlling this, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

2 (37m 6s):
And it's like, well, you know, that's only with the limited information that the brain can process.

0 (37m 13s):
It's almost a matrix of control where the belief that I'm in, it doesn't allow me to be, to be

2 (37m 19s):
It because you're thinking you're in it. So you'll never actually just not

0 (37m 22s):
In it.

2 (37m 24s):
Exactly. You can't do both. You can't, you can't be. Wow.

1 (37m 28s):
Makes sense. To me it seriously makes sense. The, the, the moral to this story is just be yeah. Just, and allow it to be like, people are listening to podcasts. Must fucking shake their heads. A lot of the stuff we talk about, but you know, in a nutshell, it's just let it happen. Just be,

2 (37m 46s):
Yeah. They get caught up in so many things. I

1 (37m 49s):
Don't know when I'm going to talk about a topic and I am going to bring this up because this is the, to me, the way that, what you've just said, but translated into society, right? Is that the media tell you this is happening where you must do this. And so therefore people do that because they're told to do it. Whereas there's lots of people that don't, pro-choice all that sort of shit. Right? So vaccinated. Oh no. Are you?

0 (38m 12s):
Yeah. Yep. I go, I just, my, a IPS board and my workplace have just said, it's required by the 15th of December.

1 (38m 22s):
And so you don't have to know it,

0 (38m 25s):
But I, as a health worker, I probably wouldn't have a job. It's fascinating.

1 (38m 30s):
But the fascinating part about that it's

0 (38m 32s):
Coercion a hundred percent. Well, it's not pro choice, but nevertheless, where will I end up? I'm I'm probably moving towards facts. Anyway, they're going to open the borders. What are you going to do?

1 (38m 43s):
Just be me. I'll call pretty much.

2 (38m 46s):
And my biggest thing is

0 (38m 48s):
Sporting events. Just go, no, are you going to go broke?

1 (38m 52s):
You,

0 (38m 53s):
Stop on me. I gonna put her on the couch

1 (38m 56s):
Or I'm just paying.

0 (38m 58s):
Why didn't I good luck brother. I look forward to it

1 (39m 2s):
Is

0 (39m 3s):
My whole point.

2 (39m 4s):
We'll find out when we find out it might. My thing is, is that both sides of that argument arguing

1 (39m 12s):
Three sides? Well,

2 (39m 13s):
For me, it's regard it's relevant. The fact is there's an argument. There's emotions attached. We now have this, some sort of emotional conversation around something. That's, you know, I've never, I don't have, COVID not, I know has had COVID this is thing that's in the media and yeah, it exists, but you know, we're living our lives. Like regardless yet, there's an outside thing. That's affecting our emotions and how we see people or, or if it doesn't affect how we see them, we have to choose not to let it affect how we see them, because the media is saying, oh, you know, the I'm vaccinated into this. And they are vaccinated the saying, you know, the vaccinated, a sheep. And then there's all these connotations and you've got to do you block it out.

2 (39m 53s):
Do you just be, do you that it's going on. And so it's unnecessary because you know, just being, and living your life.

1 (40m 5s):
And that's my whole point. Like for instance, I could sit here with, at a bar we've got robot today, have a baby together in this nature. Yeah. No masks.

2 (40m 14s):
Can we do that? That'd be amazing. We can,

1 (40m 16s):
We should do that. Palm. We have run yesterday. But anyway, I can do that with no masks, no nothing. Yep. Yeah. On the 17th of December, I'm not allowed to step foot in that bar and can't have this kind of that. Cause it's mandated. Yep. Right? Yep. So therefore you can't just be, because you now have being mandated that you can encounter, do things. Yep. And I believe there's three sides is the, is the anti-vax isn't the people that are pro-choice,

0 (40m 40s):
I'm the third, I think this approach choices and we have been a voice that hasn't been heard, excuse me. But you know, we're moving in a direction. Are we okay?

1 (40m 50s):
There's a direction. There's many directions though. There's lots of people going in different directions.

0 (40m 56s):
This is what, and I think the last one we spoke about this and you were saying how you wanted borders opened up. So it's just, it's fascinating. I agree. Then you can't really, you can't really have an opinion because there's so much information. Either side,

2 (41m 11s):
It becomes person. Like I talked to you and you're, you're, you know, we're talking, having conversation with friends, having had something to eat, that's it, you know, as soon as I bring in anything else now, you know, that shapes all this other things that

1 (41m 26s):
And that, but that's my whole point is the fact that Kenya just be with all the outside influences that we have on that. Tell us what to do.

2 (41m 36s):
Absolutely. Yeah.

1 (41m 39s):
What do you think?

0 (41m 41s):
Breathe in, breathe out.

2 (41m 44s):
Except, except, except

1 (41m 46s):
What? That,

2 (41m 48s):
Everything like the stimulations, the environment

0 (41m 52s):
Choice would say, I respect your choice

2 (41m 55s):
A hundred percent, but I'm not respecting it. Literally just a w like, it doesn't even occur to me that I'm not respecting or disrespecting. I'm just like, it doesn't like, I don't care. Like, like I'm just here to talk to you and you had something to eat and, and you know, your, your choice around these things. Yeah.

0 (42m 11s):
I had some complicated conversations around this because your energy is tightened up. You can feel it.

2 (42m 16s):
It's more, it's more the fact that, that it is, I just want to be, I just don't want that.

0 (42m 21s):
He's taking you out of

1 (42m 23s):
He's the boy, all of the shit that goes on around the outside pulls you out of that. Yeah.

2 (42m 27s):
Yeah. And so just like, if you just breathe and you, you don't, you don't

0 (42m 31s):
Engage, then that's fascinating. Yeah.

1 (42m 35s):
So we found the lever to pull him out of the cave.

0 (42m 37s):
Oh, I don't have burns out of the guy, but I just think

1 (42m 40s):
You can see the difference between, and that's the reason I bought it up. Right. Is cause one-on-one to understand is can you actually just be all the time? I don't think you can breathe in

0 (42m 52s):
Pretty down. We have back to the beginning. I get that. I don't give a fuck that y'all haven't been vaccinated. I don't give a fuck that you have been vaccinated. All I'm in a process of moving towards either raw. It doesn't matter,

1 (43m 6s):
But it affects your life. Whether

0 (43m 8s):
Or not you get vaccinated does not affect

1 (43m 10s):
My law. What does, if you want to come with a 40 with

0 (43m 12s):
Me, I don't want to come with the 40 with you. That's people. I don't know why I'd want to do that.

1 (43m 21s):
That's a fair, cool.

2 (43m 23s):
I'm in the cave. I don't talk to people.

0 (43m 26s):
my house,

2 (43m 30s):
But this is actually really important because if you're in the cave, you don't have to deal with any of this stuff. Oh no. You just literally are there being all the time, which is why it's so addictive. I don't have to deal with any of this stuff. We just, yeah. Actually just at home in the cave, you know, just being whatever I want to be at the time.

0 (43m 48s):
Well, I think more importantly than always just being is actually always coming back to just being, yeah, I get that. I had little moments like that. You're going have, get cut off. You got to have a complicated moment at work. You're going to have interesting conversations. Your partner is going to be difficult, but it's the ability to go traveling liaisons spinning at would lead a thousand kilometers an hour. What the fuck?

1 (44m 12s):
Oh, it reminds me of my golf game and every time I play golf now, I always remember you, which always scares me a little bit, but I'll always remember you and I stand above the ball and I, and I hit the ball. Right shot every time, every time I don't do it, I hit a

2 (44m 29s):
Sheet. Golf shot. Every time you think of Chris, you have Greg

1 (44m 33s):
Shut it. Golf. Nah, no more. The breathing I remember is what he told me. He has a long stick.

2 (44m 39s):
I'm just putting, I'm just come out a little bit but so my thing is as well as I think that these things are going on all the time, as you said, like all these distractions, all this information, all these like opinions and, and in the world we live in. Now everything's so much about clickbait where it's, you know, really emotive and, and you know, controversial things. And I think part of me going to the cave is because there's no answers to those and it doesn't even have to be faxed to the, that information anymore. They can just be somebody saying something to get a reaction. And that's constant. And, and, and I'm like, well, that's not, you don't even want a conversation. You just want to see reactions.

2 (45m 21s):
So I'm not going to engage in that. And so disengaging from a lot of that kind of,

0 (45m 27s):
It's really hard in a podcast though, isn't it to yeah. To discipline, I'm going to listen to this. We're going to listen to this podcast. I can't be sure. But I do feel like your time's changed a little bit.

1 (45m 36s):
No, but it's not just the tone. It's the mannerisms, the way you sat the movement on the chair. Absolutely.

2 (45m 42s):
Because I could, because I don't engage in these conversations. These kinds of conversations

1 (45m 46s):
Are uncomfortable

2 (45m 47s):
To engage them yet, which is probably why I'm in the cake

1 (45m 50s):
And I've got to get that. And the thing is I actually, I actually think that's so true. That's a really good thing for these podcasts though, because, and not that I meant to bring you out, not to apologize, but what I mean though, is you didn't

0 (46m 2s):
Breath

1 (46m 3s):
Now. I just want to deny.

0 (46m 7s):
Yeah. You didn't exempt a pike. Kiran know Justin, Michael Jordan, he's Pippin. And you're saying people in Yukon, it cut with it to go and get stuff.

2 (46m 21s):
And I made a choice. So when you brought that up, I could, I felt at that time I could have let it go and not engage and just listen to you guys, have a chat about them. What do you think bird and I could have gone to engage. I decided to engage with

0 (46m 34s):
At the front of the cave and participate by the way, it sounds like you're tying this back. Yay.

2 (46m 40s):
Yeah. And, and, and it's a huge thing, but it was a choice to engage in a conversation that's floating around us, which

0 (46m 47s):
When you enter the cave, you just say,

1 (46m 50s):
But I actually think that's a chat about it. I think that's a really good thing for people to do. That is not actually, you don't have to participate in every conversation. You don't have to have an opinion on that. Yeah. Who gives a fuck about that? Don't even worry about that. That Black's giving you a great fucking off. Don't worry about it. Just breathe, like, just get on with you.

0 (47m 8s):
So what would pull you into your game?

1 (47m 12s):
What would most things? Cause I'm on an opinion. I'd a little fuck up, man, but that's just me example anything let's go. It's like, I have an opinion on a lot of things. I actually think as I get older and more wise relaxed, let's go with that. I don't have as much in the peanut. I don't watch the news or any of that sort of stuff. Only unless I need to know some information that's factual. But other than that, we don't watch the news at all. We don't do any of that sort of stuff. And since we stopped all that, it's made a massive difference. We just chill. I can tell them a lounge of my misses for four hours every night, doing nothing.

0 (47m 48s):
Well, I think you're at the foot of the cave. I'm closed. Once we disengage from Instagram, a hundred percent television and then there's people, but then you end up at a point. I think that's where I ended up, which is why, you know, called for the chat was it's really hard to do. It's really hard to be a social being when, when you don't feel like you need needed anymore,

1 (48m 12s):
When you don't feel like you need it.

0 (48m 15s):
Yeah. Like you said, you're like a lone Wolf. Doesn't that pack,

1 (48m 20s):
But you got to pack.

0 (48m 22s):
This is what Karen's helped point out is that I am having these conversations in so's burn. We're just having them with different people.

1 (48m 29s):
So you've got you. You've got you, you move back and you got your girlfriend, you got your kids. I didn't, that were in the cave with you for a bit. You still interacted with them and completely bade up to three-year-old at, at wherever, all that at basketball,

0 (48m 53s):
Off of the tree.

1 (48m 55s):
But you know what I mean? So you still actually were interacting with other humans.

0 (48m 58s):
Sure. You have these level of conversations with everybody in your life. And I do have a couple of people that's true. And my partner and you know, I sit with my guru on a regular basis and that's, that's a beautiful experience, but it goes into a very it's, it's moving to a more subtle place for me. It's less intellectual, less abstract and more about, you know, Chan's method of awareness of breathing. It's just bring your attention to it in out and regulating every time you can't ask if to away from it, it helps you be a better listener, but I'm not sure I get the, what am I looking for here? The, the, the, you know, the spiral,

2 (49m 40s):
The need, like for me, it's need, like, you don't need to interact with people anymore. You can interact. But, but the attachment, it's not like when they say, say, I'm talking to these coaches and the kids at school, or I could not, I enjoy

1 (49m 56s):
It'd be hard not to coach it. Basketball of not interact with them.

2 (50m 2s):
I follow other people doing it.

1 (50m 4s):
Delegation. We going back there,

2 (50m 6s):
This is the thing, it's the, almost the intention or the, the perspective behind that interaction. So you don't need, you don't feel the need. Maybe it's the field, the need to, you know, impart your knowledge or have these conversations or see how deep you can go or personally develop or, or try to achieve, you know, lighten men or anything you actually adjust going. Eh, I could engage in that. That sounds like a cool conversation. Let's have some of that. Okay. I didn't understand that. Okay. I'll move on something else. There's no attachment. I'm not sure what the right word is.

1 (50m 38s):
So have you moved to becoming the guru to those people? That's a, probably a fire out there question, but what I mean, like, do you, do they see you and any come to you for the enlightenment now?

2 (50m 52s):
No. I mean, we, we were just talking about like any like lots of different things as well. Like just like most superficial funds surface stuff as well. It's just the conversation flows depending on where the conversation flows. It's not forced or intentionally trying to get sharing space, sharing space and seeing what happens. And humans have enough going on that, you know, continually those conversations, evolve and change and question. And once you start asking the questions, you realize that, you know, you're developing a common understanding of the questioning process and you disagree with this. You, you agree with that. We're having, I'm having a conversation with you.

2 (51m 34s):
We all have different experiences. We put it into the pot and then we move on to another thing. But we've just, you don't have to achieve anything in that conversation. There's no winners and losers. It's just a, it's a conversation sharing space and

0 (51m 50s):
Well, it's coming to that space without an agenda. I mean, I pretty much don't have anything to fucking say anymore, which is really difficult in social, especially in a podcast, you just, you just empty. And if someone says something and it stimulates something in your response, but sometimes it's awkward song. Well, it's not awkward for me when it's awkward for them. It's spaces of just being,

2 (52m 15s):
Looking in. And I say stuff why? Yeah. But I say stuff like, look, I have no idea. I'm going to have to think about what you just asked me and get, get an idea about where we're going to go with that conversation, because I may have an idea, but right.

0 (52m 29s):
That's wonderfully compassionate. We're all just go,

2 (52m 35s):
Just leave people hanging. Like, they're like, why are you here?

0 (52m 40s):
But look at inside. There's no words coming out.

1 (52m 42s):
These people know you and that's okay. No, I mean, so that's awkward

0 (52m 49s):
Generally.

1 (52m 52s):
Yeah, that we'd fuck it. It doesn't actually

0 (52m 54s):
Say words, wonderfully liberating. It's like

1 (52m 56s):
That McDonald's drive for anything. We don't actually,

0 (52m 60s):
It's not my job to, or they don't hear me

1 (53m 3s):
Not talking yet. We still don't

0 (53m 6s):
Expect them. Just not it's, it's, it's liberating at the same time because I'm not trying to manage anyone's perception.

1 (53m 15s):
And what about your partner? You're in those conversations and you're in a group situation and there's nothing coming out. Well, I think she bought in and help nobody in, does she jump in and help feel

2 (53m 28s):
Like she needs to help?

1 (53m 29s):
Yeah. Or is she similar to you in the way that she's comfortable with it? So she doesn't really give a fuck.

0 (53m 35s):
Yeah. That's in relationships. And I, you know, I've been through a lot about relationships over the last four years now. I think like hearing was compassionate before I think relationships require some level of work and this is coming out of the cave. And unless you invest and give and try to understand what other people need, occasionally the secret is not to lose yourself in the process, but you still have to, you know, try to understand what other people need. And I think I did pull back from even my personal relationships and

1 (54m 10s):
Think that affect your personal relationships. I think

0 (54m 12s):
So. I think so

1 (54m 13s):
This is what I understand. No, I don't

0 (54m 15s):
Think I do all the time,

2 (54m 18s):
But, but I think that's a really good point because when, when people have these conversations or you're in a session or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be absolutes. You know, like, like we can't, well, we could, but, but you going, do, you don't have to go to a cave for 40 years and meditate and come up with an answer, you know, you can retreat to the cave and just be B and then come out to the, the, you know, outside of the cave and have conversations and, and have, you know, intellectual dialogue and, and figure out problems and then go back and, and it's not, doesn't have to be one way or another. It can literally just be a flow of whatever's required for whatever the situation is, and the relationship you're in, I think,

0 (55m 1s):
And this wasn't playing, but I did ride a therapeutic program known as white for it just be, and it wasn't bad. It was just B of

1 (55m 11s):
A letter B, let it

0 (55m 12s):
Be self promotion. Why not? You know, there we go.

1 (55m 17s):
No free ads. Where are we

0 (55m 19s):
At? Where did we get to where we got to? Where are we going? This has been a fascinating conversation. I want to thank you boys, for being a part of my journey. I think it's interesting. I'm not sure men, a lot of men out there have the ability to communicate and engage, but also to mend relationships, once they're broken down and sometimes broken down, they break down just from disengagement. How do you reach out? How do you say mate, where you had a good friendship, you won't speak for two years and it's like, you know, when you start talking that you've, you've never stopped talking. So, Hey, how do you do that? How do we do that? This is me attempting to do that.

1 (55m 58s):
I can tell you when I got your text message, I was fucking socks on it. And to me we've never not communicated, but at the same time, if we didn't, it didn't matter. And that's why my, I feel about it. Right? So we've, we've never been best mates, anything like that previously, you helped me through a lot of shit. And at the same time though, is when I got the mass jumps in and they go, cool. Someone said to me, five weeks ago, what's going with the third beer. And I said, it'll be back. Cause I'm starting to when it's ready. And that to me means a lot. And you just let it go, let it roll.

0 (56m 32s):
Beautiful. What are you going to save for the Palmers out there? They might know how to reach out,

1 (56m 37s):
Just do it, just this. Like whether it's a text message, whether it's a phone call, whether it's just something random, just actually reach out if you want to. Or even if you think you need to, I think needs a good word for yourself, but not for anyone else. Does that make sense? I think it makes sense. Makes sense. To me,

2 (56m 57s):
I'm just trying to imagine two things, the need to reach out and also reach out to, because I always get excited, you know, like Chris messaged me and I was like, oh awesome. Yeah. That's that was like, this is really cool. Of course I can make it. I'll just do whatever I need to do to make it like, it's, it's one of those kinds of relationships and that kind of interaction, you know, that we've had for forever. It's always been like that

0 (57m 23s):
20 years, 28

2 (57m 25s):
Years 20. It is 20 it's over 20 years I think is so

1 (57m 30s):
How old are you?

0 (57m 32s):
Yes, it has an age to die. It's just fucking like, you know, bread. It looks like he's 12 going

1 (57m 39s):
The other way around

2 (57m 41s):
28th. When I tell people it was the one where it goes

0 (57m 43s):
Backwards, who's the guy from the matrix

1 (57m 46s):
Benjamin button that's on. I think you've gone

0 (57m 50s):
Makes sense and reasons. Another God that doesn't seem to get older. He doesn't get it's a bit like

2 (57m 57s):
I'm lucky. I looked young, you know, when I wanted to look old and you know, when you're a teenager, doesn't help it. You look 12, but yeah, now it's all, it's all coming up. What were you sit there? The point is, is

0 (58m 9s):
How attractive you are or we can move forward with,

2 (58m 12s):
I was just asking you, I got a basket whilst I can, because you know, eventually it's going flip I'm shore. I was just saying that like it's, if I was just trying to imagine, if you don't have people who reach out to like, you know, I can reach out to Chris for example, and he'll, he'll get back to me. And you know, if, if that's, what, if that's the time, you know, and if not, we've had conversations around, you know, the universe doesn't allow that to happen. That's fine too. And we've, you know, like it just, how it is, it is what it is and we need to get each other. Exactly. And so if people don't have that, or they've never invested in the concept of getting people connecting with you, then who you reaching out to, you know, is it, and in what way are you reaching out to them?

2 (58m 56s):
Is it just, you have to have that beer, you have to have that, you know, that chicken Parmesan, but you got to have something where you connect with somebody. Cause otherwise you can stay in that cage, but it's a cave, but it's more out of uncertainty of reaching out and feeling anxious and nervous. What if I reach out and they, you know, rejection and all those kinds of things and it's safe in this cave. Whereas, you know, I think that I'm not, I feel safe in the cave, but I'm also happy to step out and have the conversations. Whereas if you retreat into that cave, because it's safe and isolating, you don't have to interact or feel anything. And, and all those kinds of things from a, a self-protective Connor point of view, how do you reach out?

2 (59m 38s):
Then? I think they're very different things. And then fennel on is listening, who who's finding it hard to reach out and they're in the cave and it's nice and safe and they've been there for awhile, but they're, they're scared to come out cause they don't wanna get hurt or they've been hurt or whatever. That, that, that situation is. You know, how do you reach out to somebody on a smaller level that's nice and safe or, and then you slowly, you know, start to interact again and slowly come out of the gate. That's that's

0 (1h 0m 3s):
Normal. Send us an email or

1 (1h 0m 5s):
Reach out to,

0 (1h 0m 7s):
And you can bring Brett we're ready for a we're ready for a chat, a hundred

1 (1h 0m 10s):
Percent. I'm out

0 (1h 0m 11s):
For that third V anyone that wants to come and have a chat.

1 (1h 0m 14s):
Darlene, we can have a Darlene show where people reach out to us.

0 (1h 0m 17s):
I feel good about this conversation when I ask you one more question. Okay, well, why

1 (1h 0m 22s):
Now That was that awkward silence thing. Again, it doesn't work well on the podcast,

2 (1h 0m 38s):
So we need to put it on TV

1 (1h 0m 40s):
So you can see him breathing. He's thinking deeply though.

2 (1h 0m 44s):
He's a good looking man as well. Yeah.

1 (1h 0m 46s):
And I'll bug.

0 (1h 0m 48s):
And what would that, my chance yet? What I would say is this, isn't the only set of relationships that I've disengaged from get that there is any people out there that are listening to this that have been a part of my life though, that want to reconnect or I'm open. Why now? I feel like I've learned as much from the deep cave as I can at this point in time. And now I need to connect and communicate and be compassionate and learn kindness and be mindful of the language I use and how it impacts on people and be more loving.

0 (1h 1m 28s):
And I don't think you can do that by yourself in the cave. I think it gets an email process. So I went into the cave. I need to do it. I've learned a lot. I feel better. I'm now ready to share and connect. And that'll last for however long, the loss

1 (1h 1m 44s):
On behalf of me. Cause I'm the only one that matters for me, which is the way it should be. This

2 (1h 1m 50s):
Is true.

0 (1h 1m 51s):
Possibly

1 (1h 1m 53s):
Not really. Thank you for reaching out. I really appreciate it. I love our friendship. I love doing this. It's one of my favorite things to do is talk like this and the fact that if we can help one other block toll clock, these, or pull them out of their cave or be able to come and talk about shit, Blackstone told about it. That was the whole purpose of this podcast. So it'd be actually reopen that door. Thank you.

0 (1h 2m 16s):
Beautiful. Let's do the B bird starting with you. The, of

1 (1h 2m 20s):
The beer she's Blakey brew from the rip and collect shop our new sponsor.

2 (1h 2m 25s):
I'd describe it as a handmade freshly, a freshly handmade pizza dough. Yeah.

1 (1h 2m 32s):
The irony behind a celiac. Be smelling luck, pizza dough.

2 (1h 2m 36s):
I get it. I get it. I'm just telling you. I've never drunk via, but I'm just, that's what, that's how it's the, that delicious, you know, pizza though that you're not meant to eat.

1 (1h 2m 46s):
Not meant to have. Yeah. What are they rolling? Whereas is it

0 (1h 2m 54s):
I'm at McDonald's and I've just bought my son some hotcakes and he smuggled in the maple syrup, but refused to put the butter on first and he just doesn't understand what the hell, the other good, the butter. And I think that's what this felt like. I didn't understand when I first drunk it out and make me feel after I drank it. And it was a little bit difficult, but I moved through it and it was like,

1 (1h 3m 20s):
Okay, score. And 10, seven and a half, seven and a half a the, yeah, black Heber. The reminds me of crumpets Crump. You know, when you're a kid and your mom and chucks, the crumpets in the toaster, which you should never do, you should always grill him. But you check the Chuck that crumpets in the tastic comes out and you think, oh, any one side's going to be crispy. So I need to cover it in golden syrup. And I bought her on that because golden serve does not go another

0 (1h 3m 46s):
Round in the ties to understand what you saying.

1 (1h 3m 49s):
But the problem is that the second round of the test, the backbones anyway, that's why you should grill them. You got a different story. Okay. But the golden syrup, you stick, just stick on top. No maple syrup, golden syrup. That's the taste I got up first and then hide it for the first two bites. And then after that, I actually really enjoyed it, which I want to tell Blakey about that. I'm going to give you that tonight,

0 (1h 4m 9s):
Feeling applied to the guy was good.

1 (1h 4m 11s):
Love it. Exactly. And that's the whole thing. It doesn't bloat you.

0 (1h 4m 14s):
If people want to listen to these podcasts because I'm having a little bit difficulty finding the holes of podcasts, how would they go? How would they make it happen? How would they pass it onto a friend? I don't think anybody knows.

1 (1h 4m 26s):
Well, there you go. They got a pod fire.com that I, you pod fire, pod, fire.com that ICU, and then has the whole list of every one we've ever done. They can go into Spotify and search up to third beer and they can go on apple podcasts. But I think that the regionals was on SoundCloud, but that always comes to the same place. Maybe they've got a portfolio com that I use. I'll get them all.

0 (1h 4m 48s):
Ah, there you go.

1 (1h 4m 53s):
Has always been a pleasure. Let's do that. Awesome. Say boys face.