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Each episode of GAIN Momentum focuses on timeless lessons to help grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, and technology. Whether you’re a veteran industry leader looking for some inspiration to guide the next phase of growth or an aspiring executive looking to fast-track the learning process, this podcast is here with key lessons centered around four questions we ask each guest.
GAIN Momentum episode #11 - Relationships and Reputations | with Steven Bronken
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Jason Emanis: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from global industry leaders about how to grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm Jason Emanis here with my co host Adam Mogelonsky. Our guest today is Steven Bronken, head of Global Hospitality at Ruckus Networks. Hello, Steven.
[00:00:30] Steven Bronken: Hey, good to be here. It's five o'clock someplace. That place is here in Halifax.
[00:00:38] Jason Emanis: Take it away, Adam.
[00:00:40] Adam Mogelonsky: So Steven, our format today is we are asking senior leaders in hospitality technology, framing the podcast around four key questions that have timeless lessons for everyone, be they aspiring entrepreneurs all the way through to hoteliers and others trying to sell into the hotel industry. So our first question today, Steven, is when it comes to scaling a business, what is the single piece of advice you would give entrepreneurs from your perspective as a professional in hospitality technology?
[00:01:21] Steven Bronken: Sure. that's a great question, Adam. You know, I, I've seen your show, um, and I know you've had a lot of folks on here who are experts in regards to operations, experts in regards to framework of organizations and so forth like that. And, you know, to be honest with you, they all have great vantage points from, you know, their point of view.
[00:01:40] Uh, mine is a little bit different. Mine, the key thing in terms of scaling is all about networking. It's all about relationships because that's really where, where I excel at, right? it's essentially, you know, if you have a wide network of people. That you can rely on, whether that be clients, whether that be, uh, mentors, whether that be business partners, whether that be, uh, employees or potential employees, it's essentially you can draw on those people to gain the information, the knowledge, the resources to grow your business in a time of scaling. So, you know, I'll give you an example. I worked for a company that had 30 people when I started and over 200 when I left, uh, and that was over a period of seven years. We scaled significantly during that time and we didn't do it in a vacuum. We did it by reaching out to different people, different organizations, different mentors, different resources from all lines, from banking, from manufacturing, etc., to finding resources, etc., just to get us through those seven years to get to that point where we would grow. So, having that network, you know was key because without it We wouldn't have been able to grow at the scale that we did we would be able to grow at the rate And we wouldn't have the people that we did in the rock solid foundation that we ended up coming out with as a company. Now in order to have that network though, you need to be able to you know Of course get out there be seen have a reputation That people will latch on to so that they can actually build your network for you So, you know, people are not going to align themselves with people that don't have a positive reputation, that don't have a good history, and in this industry, you know, it's too small. if you burn a client once, chances are that that's going to haunt you for a very, very long time. So It's really about your reputation, it's really about, you know, that you form that basis or that foundation and then you build your network on top of that to grow everything, right? So, that's really where I look at it is, you can accomplish anything, you can be bold and do the wildest things possible. But, in order to do that, you need help getting there. And so, that network is going to be the most important asset that you have to get that scaling of your business done, in my honest opinion.
[00:04:06] Jason Emanis: Talk to us about hiring for that because you think you're talking about a culture and you want to hire the right people who can perpetuate that culture and I would suspect that would be tough. I'm a little spotty with hiring myself. I always need a lot of help, but what's your experience?
[00:04:24] Steven Bronken: Yeah, you know, I've, I've been on both sides, right? I've been, I've been hired and I've been the hiring person. You know, some of the key items I always look at are, you know, making sure that when you're going into an organization, that they're going to back you up fully. And that's reputable organization, right? And I think that's what a lot of, people look for when they're going into those roles. So being a hire, uh, a hiring manager, for example, in these items, you're looking for somebody that's got that great reputation. That's never burnt anybody, but they trust you and trust your organization well enough to come into it into, you know, kind of, perpetuate the overall mantra, the overall thought, the overall spirit of your organization. I've hired a lot of people, uh, in my, in my tenure. And you know, it's really about fit. It's really about attitude. it's really about just having the right energy. There was one of my greatest hires was actually, uh, I brought her in for, uh, for a sales role years ago at one of the last companies I worked for. And she didn't have experience in sales. She didn't have, you know, experience in hospitality as in the hotel industry, but she was actually a bartender for many, many years. And I've worked in the service industry. I know that that's a fast paced environment that you have to you know, satisfy a lot of, clients that come into your restaurant and so forth or your bar or whichever. And you've got to think quickly and you've got to be able to deliver quickly.
[00:05:47] And it's all about the service. With that and with her energy, We brought her into the organization in sales. Now she actually ended up morphing, uh, we worked with her to further her career and led her into a marketing role. She became our manager of creative marketing before, you know, she left to go to her next role.
[00:06:05] And I was extremely happy for her. it's really about, you know, finding that right fit, but, you know, it's not all about the pedigree. It's also about the, the energy that they have and
[00:06:18] relatability to a
[00:06:19] Jason Emanis: totally agree. Love hiring people from service industry. They had to work. They had to be
[00:06:24] Steven Bronken: Absolutely. Yeah,
[00:06:26] I did. I used to do a 24 7 restaurant, uh, through college and I had the, I had the bar crowd. I had the bouncer crowd. I had everything back then, right? You know, three, four o'clock in the morning. And, you know, it was, it was fantastic because, you know, I knew everybody. It was a small city, about 50, 000 people in the plains of Saskatchewan. And when I would actually go to the bars myself, I knew all the bouncers to get in. Right? So I'd walk by that big lineup that everybody was lined up trying to get into that bar to pay the cover. I'd walk right by and they'd go, Hey, Steven, come on in. Everybody else looked at me like I got two heads, right? It's all about that energy, right? It's all about that relatability, the connectivity, the relationship that you had that will get you into the bar sooner than everybody else is also the relationship that you have that will, you know, open up that new door of business for you, right? So in my opinion, it's all about the relationship.
[00:07:17] It's all about that network. It's all about your reputation.
[00:07:20] Adam Mogelonsky: Well, it's kind of the perfect lead in to the second question. You talk about reputations and getting burned and all this. And our second question actually is, what are some of the common pitfalls or failures you have witnessed that business owners should look to avoid when scaling their business?
[00:07:38] Steven Bronken: Well, that's another good question. So, there's definitely, you know, there's definitely a ton, right? and I mean, again, in this industry, it's too small. Uh, sometimes people make rash, bold decisions in the wrong way. They burn a bridge. That is a huge pitfall. in my opinion, that's almost the beginning of the end in this industry. You know, you burn a big enough bridge, and then your piece of the pie gets smaller. And if you can't rebound quickly enough... You know, that's something that can haunt you for a very long time, and eventually you're, you're withering away, your organization is withering away. Now, at the same point, there's other pitfalls, right?
[00:08:13] You know, you think about, um, outsider relationships, you think about not being prepared, prepared for the unforeseen. Right? we've all kind of been through that the last few years, right? That everybody, uh, everybody was kind of going into, uh, 2020, it was going to be a great year for business. Then all of a sudden COVID hit, and we've got companies that have just manufacturing in one location. Right. Like many of the companies like, like Ruckus, for example, many of the other OEM manufacturers, manufacturing is just in one spot. It's not diversified at all. Right. and that is, is kind of a major pitfall because It didn't do any of us well over those, over those initial couple of years to get stock out the door to help our clients and help our partners. But you know, like our organization, uh, one of the things that we did, one of the things that, you know, our leaders did is they actually took everything and they, they started diversifying manufacturing. So they diversified in a bunch of locations around the world. They also diversified the product line so that it could be more adaptable to new chips, right? So it wasn't just held accountable to one chip manufacturer. So you've got to kind of, you can't burn any relationships, but in addition to that, you've also got to prepare for a Black Swan event in the future. You've got to have everything diversified as much as you can so that, you know, should something happen, You have a good enough foundation or a good enough pivot point where you can still operate and still, you know, come out on top.
[00:09:43] And, and that's something that, you know, our organization has done to get out of the gate quicker after COVID to get. So, you know, to get people back with product, right? And, and that I think was a hard lesson, a hard pitfall learned by a lot of major enterprise organizations about having diversified, um, manufacturing.
[00:10:07] Jason Emanis: Yeah, everyone got hammered. That's a great answer. Never would have saw that coming, but how appropriate because, uh, so many people got hammered with that. I'm very excited to see what happens. I'm only American here on the podcast, but I'm excited to see, you know, all of the, the opportunities opening up, you know, in both the Americas, for companies to diversify.
[00:10:30] They're suppliers.
[00:10:31] Steven Bronken: And, and, you know, to, to take that into a Canadian analogy, because Adam and I are both Canadian, of course, you know, at your house, you should have multiple beer fridges, right? Just in case one goes down, I've got three. Three beer fridges in case one goes down. I've got two extra. I'm ready for a Black Swan event at my house, right?
[00:10:49] Adam Mogelonsky: Well, to draw on a word you said there, pivoting, pivot, it can be pricey. So how do you, barring back Black Swan events like the pandemic, how do you spot those and help to convince others in a large organization to actually embrace that pivot and to put capital towards it?
[00:11:15] Steven Bronken: Very good question. you know, here's the thing if everybody had a crystal ball Right?
[00:11:20] We'd all be millionaires, right? We know the end of the Super Bowl before it happened, or in Canada, the Great Cup, right? Much better game, 10 yards longer, play in colder weather. It's a
[00:11:31] real man's game compared to NFL, but that's fine.
[00:11:33] That's for another discussion. you know, but that's kind of it. It's, it's kind of reading the tea leaves, trying to discover, you know, or, throughout my life, I've been fortunate enough to have a good, a good gut, a good instinct feeling, right? and knowing, uh, with my experience in this industry for over 16 years, it's kind of been, you know, where do I feel this is going to go? Now, at the same point, at the beginning of, uh, COVID, for example, back to the Black Swan event, it was literally. When that hit, I was telling everybody I was going to be back on the road in three weeks, right? I was locked in Canada for 18 months in my house. In Nova Scotia, some of the strictest laws in regards to COVID. For example, if I left my province or for you folks in the States, my state, my home state, if I left it, I couldn't get back in without applying. My family was here. My house is here. My dog was here. Everything. I pay taxes here. I couldn't get back in without applying. You know, you can't predict everything. That's I guess the easiest way to say it. You can't predict everything. Your gut can't tell you everything. The best thing to do is just kind of keep a diversified portfolio of every major critical part of your business and Think about, uh, be precautionary about, if I can say that word right, about, you know, where those possible break points are. You know, if that is a hinge point, that it's a break point, then have a backup plan. Do, do be prepared, right? You prepare your house for how to evacuate in a fire. Why wouldn't you prepare? Your business for another Black Swan event specifically because we just had one. Right? So take the time to be ready to be diversified to know what you're gonna do in case of an emergency worst case scenario.
[00:13:31] If it's an emergency that's completely different. Then at least maybe you have something that you've already done, the due diligence on your own organization to know what you can change and what might be a possible option. At least in my opinion.
[00:13:44] Adam Mogelonsky: We talk about pivoting and Black Swan events and not knowing the future, and that again ties in perfectly to our third question, which is, what do you see as the key opportunities and challenges for hospitality technology companies in 2023 and beyond?
[00:14:02] Steven Bronken: you know, one thing that we've seen in the in the hospitality IT industry, of course, is a huge pent up demand. Whether you know, from a guest perspective, the pent up demand to travel, like we've got, what is it, Revenge Travel now, uh, we've got, you know, people are traveling on the shoulders of the weekend, for example, you know, doing a little bit more with their family while they travel, uh, you know, there's definitely a lot more guests traveling. That is, of course, creating more demand, of the hotel, more demand of the hotel staff, more, uh, demand of the hotel networks, and people are, uh, Upgrade people are building their business. There's pent up demand for everything so you've got these hotels that were in a duck and cover state for a couple years with their IT and In many cases that IT was already a few years old to begin with probably past its prime I mean, you know, we've got some hotels have networks.
[00:14:53] I know for example Rutgers Networks out there that are like 10 years old They're still rock solid, they're still working great, but they're 10 years old, right? And so much technology has changed since then, and they were probably going to upgrade, you know, 2020, right? At the six year mark, but now they held off throughout the pandemic, and now they're looking to actually get it done. So, You've got that. You've got people having, you know, ordering stock and, and different supply chain issues and stuff like that. Although some of it's being resolved, there's still some in different areas of the, hotel that they're buying. There's also, you know, problems getting staff, right? Still, we still run into hotels that are having trouble finding house cleaners, you know, finding bellboys, finding IT staff, finding whatever it is. And you've got new apps coming up that, you know, help people find placement, for hospitality jobs on the daily, kind of like a, um, kind of like a car share app, but except for a job, right? and so these things are, these things are happening. And on top of that, you've also got AI, artificial intelligence is coming into play. Right? How is that going to help a network? How is that going to help a hotel? Is it going to help in terms of, you know, deploying that hotel? In terms of, uh, monitoring that hotel? Managing that hotel? You've got all these different components coming to play On the industry right now, plus a whole bunch more that, you know, I may or may not know about and it's essentially, you know, it's difficult for a hotel or anybody in this industry to, you know, understand everything, but it's such a huge opportunity for us all at this moment in time, because there's so much business and it's really going to be one of those companies that understand how to take everything that they're seeing, how to take AI, how to take issues with staffing, how to, um, and maybe use AI to solve it, how to take issues with supply chain or other things, and really put those all together and capitalize on it. So, if you have these companies out there that can do that, right, that are forward thinking enough, that are nimble enough to be doing this, right now the world's your oyster. You make hay while the sun shines. That's exactly what's happening right now. It's just such a great opportunity and it's not time now to lay off the pedal, it's time to double down and go. Right, in my opinion, it's get, hire the right people, figure out the strategy, and go.
[00:17:23] Jason Emanis: Are you seeing more tech adoption?
[00:17:26] Steven Bronken: Yes. Oh, absolutely. we're seeing more IOT, uh, adoption, specifically. You know, we've, we're working with some of the major brands to, because of staff shortages and so forth, um, that are doing some projects with door locks, for example. You know, so we're involved in that and, and that's something simply is just being able to connect to the door lock and having security about it so that, you know, they don't have to send staff up to check the door lock every time somebody gets locked out of their room. also it, you know, there's notifications that can be sent that if the door doesn't close properly, that the hotel is notified of it so that they don't have lost prevention. Right? So, all that involves staff. So there's adoption with IoT, um, there's also adoption with, with AI. As I was mentioning, um, you know, we've got partners and ourselves as well that are working on AI techniques to reduce the manpower to, you know, one, deploy a network, Number two, to, as I was mentioning, to monitor that network, because that's, you know, that's a huge, amount of time.
[00:18:26] If you think about it, some of the LSPs in the, in the industry have 4, 000 plus hotels that they look after. You know, that's millions of guest rooms, right? Uh, if, if I'm doing the math correct, and math was never my strong suit, but that's the thing. Like, they're, trying to reduce. The amount of people that they need to monitor these because they're having trouble getting staff to monitor it. So they're using AI to monitor. They're using AI to manage it. Self healing networks, right? AI to discover trends to reduce the number of calls that are going into the call center because all these things, the number of calls going into the call center affects a service level agreement with the hotel, which then, of course, you've got to keep a certain service level agreement with the hotel in order to keep their contract, right?
[00:19:09] Because otherwise they're going to throw you out. So normally in the past, it's let's throw more people at it, right? If we want to keep those calls being answered in a certain amount of time and being resolved in a certain amount of time, we need more people. Well, now with AI, they can introduce that technology into their overall solution, and AI can be the one monitoring and picking up these issues and going, hey, we've got a problem. And then that gets escalated, right? If AI can't fix it itself, then that gets escalated. But you need a lot less people to do that with AI than you do the old way, right? So, the more people you have, the more cost you have, right? The more cost you have, the less profit you have, the less you can grow. And you have to try to reflect some of that back on the hotel. So then that drives up the hotel's costs as well. You know, AI is a, is a massive piece of our strategy to, to reduce the cost of support to enhance the experience for everybody who uses our networks, and make things better. And it's, it's such a game changer. then, then you got Wi Fi 7 coming out too in a little bit. So that's that's cool. That's going to be a game changer as well. That's going to. Faster access points, more devices, you name it, right? I mean, it's going to change the landscape again.
[00:20:29] Adam Mogelonsky: Well, with all these tech changes and with hotels already experiencing a backlog from the pandemic and the reduced IT staff that's there and available, how do you go about prioritizing what to do amidst all these changes that are going to keep coming? They're not stopping.
[00:20:49] Steven Bronken: yeah, you know, we, back to relationships, actually. You know, we work very, very closely with the brands to make sure that what we're working on is what they want, right? And it's not just, you know, we're not just sitting there taking orders with, by them, right? And, and saying, you know, this is what you want?
[00:21:06] Great, I'll go back to the kitchen, I'll make it, I'll bring it, right? that's not what we're doing. We're. We're working with them to strategize on the best way forward to, to fill these needs, to fill these gaps. We're actually moving, uh, a lot of our software actually is going into what we call Ruckus 1, right, which is in the cloud.
[00:21:23] And the reason we're doing something like that is so that, you know, right now, uh, before Ruckus 1, you know, we have some services in the cloud, but we had multiple, multiple services in the cloud. They didn't all talk to one another, right? So we're putting it all into one. And the reason we're doing that is because if you wanted to make a change or enhancement beforehand, Then, you know, you had to do it for a piece of hardware here.
[00:21:44] You had to do it maybe for this service here in the cloud, that service there, that service there. It was very disruptive. By putting everything into one common platform, we can actually make enhancements on the fly without the hotel being impacted. And they can add additional services as they want, without even reaching out to us, right? So, we're trying to be as adaptive as we can. We're trying to be as, uh, resourceful as we can, but also as informative, right? my selling technique has never been, you know, Hey, how much software would you like to buy? Like the old, uh, I think it was an old Canadian commercial for software sales years ago. It's not that, it's not, I'm not a used car salesman. Right? I, I've never been that way. people buy from people in this industry. And, and for us, it's, if, if I don't know someone, I'm gonna, before I take them out for several beer, I'm going to educate them, right? I'm going to educate them on, on the technology and on what we're doing.
[00:22:39] And we're going to have an open discussion about how it will impact what they want. Cause we don't want to come out here and just, you Meet the status quo of competition, right? That's, that's not what we want to do. You want to blow them away. You want to go, you know, Ruckus or whichever company you're working for is the product that everybody wants and they're the best one in the industry, right? So it's kind of like a talk with your clients, but exceed their expectations, always. So and educate them on why you're exceeding their expectations. Sorry, hopefully that answers a question
[00:23:17] Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it does. I've never heard it quite that way in terms of educating them on why you're exceeding the expectations. That's really cool.
[00:23:26] Steven Bronken: it's what works right? And I mean if you're passionate about what you're doing, you know education and Selling is not really selling. It's just education and being informative.
[00:23:39] So I I take clients out all the time I never bring up business. I let them bring it up Right? for me, it's all about the relationship, right?
[00:23:47] And, and if they want to talk tech, if they want to talk about this or that or the other thing, I'm ready for it. Right? But people buy from people in this industry, and they will continue to do that until AI replaces us all.
[00:24:03] Adam Mogelonsky: Give or take three or four years on that one, would you
[00:24:05] Steven Bronken: yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:24:10] Adam Mogelonsky: All right. Steven, our last question here. What are the key things innovative leaders and entrepreneurs should prioritize and focus on to gain traction for their business?
[00:24:22] Steven Bronken: So, a common thread, I think, in everything I've said is, is relationships,
[00:24:25] right? But it's also integrity. Right? If you want to gain traction in this industry, Do what you say you're going to do. Right? And, and make sure that you stick by it. Make sure your organization and everybody in it sticks by what you're going to say and what you're going to do.
[00:24:43] Right? If, if you are a solid organization and everybody's on the same page and everybody is rolling in the right direction, your organization will succeed. If you have holes in your ship, meaning people that are not supporting the organization, meaning they're not being, they're not having that great reputation, they're not perpetuating a good view of your company, then address it. Right? Address it. Coach it. Resolve it. Whatever you gotta do. But, have your organization and everybody in it be on the same page with where you're going and have it ensure that everybody is in the same mindset that integrity is number one. You never lie to your clients. Right? You deliver what you say you're going to deliver, and you stand by it. And from an employee perspective, right, back to your organization, make sure that your organization is going to back you up, right? Make sure that whatever you know that you're going to say in that, in that meeting, is going to be 100% backed up by whoever you're representing. Because if you're not backed up, then what are you doing, right? you're just being a car salesman in that sense. You're not out there, you're not being a good steward of the organization, and the organization is not backing you up, it's not a good relationship. So, I've been fortunate in my career that every organization I've worked for has been a solid organization, has had a great product, and has backed me up in everything I've said. And that has led to the strength of my relationships with everybody, that has led to the strength of my ability to connect and reach out, and the strength of my reputation. You know, I've been, I've been fortunate enough, I guess I've told enough good jokes along the line and delivered enough promises that, that people believe me when I say that I'm going to deliver this. That I'm going to provide this service, that I'm going to come through for them. And that opens up so many doors in this industry. Uh, I was talking with a gentleman, earlier this week from the Middle East. I, you know, I've done a lot of business in the Middle East in, in different companies I've worked for. He had heard about me. I had never met him before, but he had heard of me and my reputation. And he said, Steven, he said, that's why I took the call. He said, because I've heard of you, I've heard of what you've done, and I've heard of your reputation. And I'm like, my God, I said, thank you very much. Like, I've been very fortunate, right? But it's because of my relationship with each organization, and I chose them all very carefully. To make sure that I knew that my brand, as me, was going to be well represented and could carry on and wasn't going to have any blemishes. Right? So, I guess that's kind of the key for me is, I'm a relationship guy. I'm a stand by integrity guy, you know, make sure that you never lose sight of that. Make sure you stay true to yourself, you stay true to your company, and your company backs you up, and you'll conquer the world.
[00:27:49] Jason Emanis: kind of coming full circle because we're talking about culture again. Whereas you, you probably have very strong influence on your direct reports,
[00:27:58] Steven Bronken: hmm.
[00:27:58] Jason Emanis: but how do you permeate that down or how does, you know, does your CEO start every, you know, big company meeting with integrity or what does it look like?
[00:28:10] Steven Bronken: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, um, so permeating down, for example, it's a lot about passion. Right? Again, you know, passion is contagious. If you have it, chances are your direct reports are going to have it too. same thing with integrity, right? You remind them that sure, it would be fun to go off the rails and, and maybe do something completely different, but we can't because integrity is the most important thing that you've got, right?
[00:28:36] And doing the right thing. so yeah, you can have a chuckle, but that's all it is. Right? You've always got to deliver the best thing and sometimes you've got to curtail them back into it, right? You've got to go, no, no, that's not right. This is why we're delivering this and they understand, right? My team, I'm very fortunate that the team I work with today, they're all industry veterans.
[00:28:56] They've all worked for various organizations and you know, they all know what they're doing, right? So for me, it's more about how can I clear the road for them to help them get into things, to help them. You know, perpetuate our mission statement to, to kind of get out there and do what we need to do. and, you know, they'll look after everything else.
[00:29:17] So surrounding yourself with good people, very important. Our CEO uh, is, is actually, uh, so our CEO is, is Chuck Treadaway. We're, we're part of CommScope, which is a rather large organization, of course. Uh, Globally, but the head of, uh, Ruckus Networks is, uh, Bart Giordano, uh, and Bart is the, both the general manager of, uh, of Ruckus as well as the, president of NICS, which is our division of Network Intelligence, uh, Intelligent Cellular and Security. And, you know, he exudes passion. Right? He exudes passion about what we're doing. He exudes passion about the industry, and he knows the industry. So, you know, you bring him out, he fires up a crowd, right? He's fantastic at it, right? He fires up our customers, he fires up our employees, and he gets going. And he's the kind of guy that, you know, You got a president that some, some presidents in different organizations are a little bit standoffish, you know what I mean?
[00:30:14] They're on the executive level. They don't get involved. Bart's not like that. Bart is, is in there in the trenches with you. He's in the meetings with you. He's at the, at the bar with the client afterwards, you know, connecting, building relationships, right? As I mentioned, relationships are the most important thing. He's there right alongside me in these meetings building these relationships with people and helping repair them. So, I guess to the point, it's, you know, passion, one word answer.
[00:30:42] Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Steven Bronken: So, hopefully that answered it for you anyway.
[00:30:48] Adam Mogelonsky: No, it answered on so many levels, you know, passion relationships, not just with your, uh, the people you're selling to, but also internally and that, how that influences culture and keeps everything, keeps, keeps the ship right. And that,
[00:31:02] or at least a good reputation that one develops and, and has to constantly curate over the years.
[00:31:11] Steven Bronken: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:31:14] Adam Mogelonsky: So on that note, with those four questions so well answered, Steven, thank you so much for coming on
[00:31:21] to the
[00:31:22] Steven Bronken: Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure, gentlemen. It's been great.
[00:31:25] Jason Emanis: Thank you.