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Episode Summary
A conversation with Evan Williams about his journey into customer success and lessons learned along the way.
- (00:00) - Intro | Build relationships and don’t be afraid to reach out
- (02:45) - Why Customer Success
- (08:02) - EQ in Customer Success | The Art of Reading the Room and Building Connections
- (10:58) - The Art of the Sales-to-Success Handoff | Ensuring Continuity and Delight for Customers
- (15:11) - Demonstrating Value | Connecting Usage to Business Outcomes for Successful Renewals
- (18:38) - Building a Customer Success Function
- (22:58) - From Mentee to Mentor | Paying It Forward in the Business World
- (25:21) - Being Your Authentic Self
- (26:55) - The Reward of Mentoring
- (28:35) - Step outside your comfort zone
- (32:08) - Challenges and Joys of Working Parents
- (34:49) - Favorite Book
- (36:23) - There’s Always More Going On Behind The Scenes
- (38:49) - Build your network
- (40:40) - Outro
Evan’s Bio
Evan Williams is a seasoned leader and strategic advisor, excelling in customer success within the realms of Cybersecurity, Professional Services, and EdTech, based in Orange County, California. His proficiency in Dashboards, Account Expansion, and Retention Management has carved his path in aiding companies to shield and enhance their revenue through methodical customer programs and strategic management.
Currently serving as a Strategic Advisor and Fractional VP of Customer Success at Growth Molecules, LLC since December 2021, Evan works assiduously in management consulting and education. He collaborates with companies to engineer scalable growth through metrics-driven customer programs, spanning onboarding to adoption, renewals, and advocacy. His team also champions individuals aspiring to elevate their careers, providing them with the catalyst to reach their next professional milestone.
In a world that's constantly evolving digitally, Evan Williams stands out as a pillar in customer success, combining his vast experience and specialized skills to pave the way for revenue growth and customer program optimization in companies while also lighting the way for aspiring professionals in the industry.
Referenced
- Catalyst’s Coaching Corner: https://catalyst.io/community/coaching-corner
- Gainsight Essentials: https://essentials.gainsight.com/essentials-accelerator/
- Book | Can't Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds by David Goggins: https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Hurt-Me-Master-Your/dp/1544512279
Connect With Evan
🎙About The Podcast
Join Cesar Romero, as he shares the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones. Whether you seek inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.
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Evan Williams | BJT23 - Main
[00:00:00] Evan: Not being afraid to reach out, not being afraid to contact people, build those relationships, say hello, have a conversation, even if it's not, it doesn't have to be a conversation to serve you, right?
[00:00:09] Evan: It can just be. Introductions, making a connection, building a relationship and learning from others and learning from their experiences. So in particular, if you're interested in breaking into customer success, if you're interested in advancing your career again, find someone that's in a position that you're in either someone that already works in customer success or someone who has a role.
[00:00:30] Evan: you know that you would be interested in and reach out to them. Say, Hey, I would love to hear more about your experience. And if there's any, lessons learned that you would be willing to share with me,maybe they'll take the call and at a minimum, maybe they can point you in the direction of some helpful resources or someone else that would be willing to spend the time.
[00:00:45] Cesar: Hey friends. Welcome to another episode of beyond the job title podcast. I'm your host. Since I've Romero. And remember, this is the [00:01:00] podcast where we feature the relatable journeys of successful underrepresented professionals in tech. With the goal of providing you with the inspiration mentorship. Resources and strategies to advance her career. And my guest for today's episode is Evan. Williams. Evan. It's an accomplished customer success leader and strategic advisor with experience in different realms, like cyber security, professional services, and ad tech. And he is currently serving as a strategic advisor and fractional VP of customer success. At growth molecules. Where he helps companies scale. Through customer success programs. And in this episode, we're going to dive deeper into his customer success journey. Why he decided to build a career in customer success. If you are someone that is considering growing or entering into the customer success field, we're also going to talk about a few tips and strategies that you can implement. We also talk about the power [00:02:00] of mentorship, how to find mentors, why it's important to always give back at every stage of your career and so much more. And before we dive into the episode. Please. I have two requests for you. One. Make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss out on any future episodes. And that is one of the best ways to support the podcast. And number two. I welcome. Any feedback, questions, comments. That's how we continue and growing. And improving this podcast so if you have a question if you have
[00:02:33] Cesar: feedback what is good or bad or any common Please don't hesitate reaching out my dms are open Thank you so much and now here's my conversation with evan williams
[00:02:45] Cesar: What inspired you to pursue a customer success as a career,
[00:02:49] Cesar: and what's been the most rewarding aspect so far.
[00:02:53] Evan: Yeah. So what inspired me to take up a role in customer success? So I've known from a very long [00:03:00] age. I've always been from a very young age that I've always been very interested in technology. Even when I was very young, I remember my grandmother bought us our first computer when I was very young, and my parents were always telling me to not spend so much time on it.
[00:03:13] Evan: Even when I was little, I always just was on there and I was curious and, exploring and those types of things. So I've always definitely felt an attachment to technology. And then When I worked, when I was in college, I found a job, working in the help desk. So that was really my first experience working in a customer facing role.
[00:03:32] Evan: And we were responsible for helping students to, set up their email addresses, or if they had issues with their computers, they would bring them in and, we would work on them. And I really, I liked it a lot because it blended my love for technology with. My love for being able to help people.
[00:03:49] Evan: And I have, so many stories about, funny things that would happen in the help desk, people, I guess they're probably not funny to the people that it happened to, but, people that would spill coffee on their laptops while they were in class and they would [00:04:00] bring them in and we'd have to take them apart and dry it, dry them out.
[00:04:02] Evan: I actually remember one girl who had spilled a glass on spilled a drink on her laptop while she was in class. And it was actually wine. So she had spilled wine all over, over her laptop. So we're in there and we're like, I know exactly what you spilled on this. I can smell it. it was so much fun working in there and being able to really help everyone out.
[00:04:19] Evan: Because they would come in, looking for our assistance and we'd be able to help them, either fix their computers and they'd be freaking out. Many of these people were so much fun. Away from home for the first time, and they're like, Oh, no, I've just broken this, expensive piece of equipment.
[00:04:31] Evan: So being able to help them out was a lot of fun. And that was really, the first really exposure I had to working in a customer facing role. So then after that, I after college, I graduated and I went to work up in San Francisco for a company called Blackboard. And most people, when they think of Blackboard, most people are familiar with the company.
[00:04:52] Evan: It's a big, multi billion dollar, ed tech company. It's been around for a very long time, but the division of the company that I worked [00:05:00] for was the mobile division. So this was back when, there was a very. The idea of having mobile applications was something very new right now. it's pretty, like everyone has a mobile app, right?
[00:05:14] Evan: from the cafe that you're down the street from you to, every, every small company of startup, like everyone has, it has a mobile app at this time. That wasn't necessarily the case of this was really groundbreaking at the time. And we were making mobile applications for higher ed institutions.
[00:05:26] Evan: We worked with many big universities and a lot of the more forward thinking, school, high school districts, but I really enjoyed my time there getting to, work with all of these, different institutions to help them make sure that their technical, their technology, their posture there was,advancing and that they were on the cutting edge of technology when it came to the mobile front.
[00:05:48] Evan: And this is, I would say this is really the first experience I have with a very rewarding customer relationship. There was a woman that I worked with at the University of Alabama, who was, had been a [00:06:00] great partner of ours. We'd worked together, for a long time and, she had really bet and, and risk, her job on the success of this rollout and yeah.
[00:06:08] Evan: because we had a lot of success around the adoption and the rollout of the application, it was really a career making move for her. So she was able to advance in her role,at the university and I. T. So it was really exciting to be able to see how well this is not only been helpful for the students that were using it, but really for the university as partners.
[00:06:29] Evan: And in this individual, this woman that we really were able to make look good to her boss, right? So A lot of the times what we think about from a customer success perspective is asking our customers, what can I do to make you look good to your boss? So that was, really where I started off in that customer facing role.
[00:06:46] Evan: And then, over the years, I've had, many different rules. But what I love about it again is, I love technology. I love the way that it's able to help people, saves us time, makes it, makes us more efficient. but it also [00:07:00] get, I get to spend a lot of time working with people and that's what I find energizing.
[00:07:04] Evan: and what I really enjoy is getting to work with people. my, my wife always chastises me because whenever we're on break vacation or we go out to dinner, we go out to bar like I love meeting new people. I'm always like chatting, chatting people up. In fact, one of our, one of our best friends, I made,in a, an apartment that we used to live in when we were in the elevator and I just randomly started talking to these people and it turns out now, 10 years later, they're some of our best friends.
[00:07:29] Evan: it's always energizing and always very rewarding. To me to build a, those personal relationships. really enjoy that about working customer success. I
[00:07:36] Cesar: love that. And I love that you had the opportunity early on to combine your love for tech and for people and customer success.
[00:07:42] Cesar: It's like the, it's like a great pair, right? I'm curious. You say you love people. what about the relationship building process? do you enjoy it the most? And, how do you approach it? do what kind of questions would you ask? if you're meeting someone for the first time, or maybe even [00:08:00] onboarding a new client for the first time.
[00:08:02] Evan: Yeah, so I think one of the things that's really important when we think about customer success and relationship building and rapport building is making sure that you're always conscious of your EQ, your emotional question, right? So making sure that you're able to read the room, you can read body language, you can understand people's emotions and motivators.
[00:08:21] Evan: And it's super important, I think, to not only build the personal or excuse me, the professional, but also the personal relationship. So when you're joining on those calls, right? A little bit, not too much, but having a little bit of small talk, right? Getting to know your customers on a personal level.
[00:08:37] Evan: and when I say that you have to have the hue there, right? It's because you do have some customers that are maybe not as interested in it. In the small talk, right? You need to know, and I've been in several situations where it's almost painful to listen to, or,the CSM isn't quite catching that, like this customer is not interested in having the small talk right now, right?
[00:08:52] Evan: They want to talk business, they, they have some objectives to accomplish. So you have to make sure that you're weighing those and that you're balancing the time that you're spending, [00:09:00] right? Because,ultimately your customer is giving you something that's very valuable, right?
[00:09:03] Evan: Their time. So you don't want to waste it. But if you do have customers that you can read and understand, read the room and understand that, hey, there's an opportunity for some relationship building here, asking them, about themselves, right? Their interests, things that they like to do.
[00:09:17] Evan: And I find that really can open up the door, to, if they're, if they want to share more details about, their personal life, their interests, the things they like to do on the weekends, their families, their friends, those types of things. so I, I had a 1 leader that had once told me that you can tell that.
[00:09:31] Evan: You've built a very strong relationship with a customer if you're on a texting basis, right? Like when you're at a point with that customer that, you can text them or you're calling them on their cell phone, you're on your way to really building a very successful relationship together.
[00:09:45] Evan: Yeah, I definitely,
[00:09:46] Cesar: I've been on that experience where You can read some people don't want to do that. initial talk of personal details, right? They just want to dive right into the business. And I think knowing how to read that [00:10:00] it's it takes practice, right? But, Eventually, right?
[00:10:02] Cesar: it's about the other person, right? And the
[00:10:05] Evan: customer. Yeah. And I think it's important to that. You have to understand that you have to build trust first. And I spoke to, I was speaking to a colleague about this the other day about, how do you build trust, right? Whether it's with a customer.
[00:10:16] Evan: Or whether it's with your own colleagues, and I think one of the best ways to begin building trust is delivering on promises, right? So doing what you say that you're going to do is, I think, one of the best ways that you can go about building trust, either, both with your colleagues and with your customers.
[00:10:31] Evan: before you are able to really build that deep personal relationship with your customer, You probably are going to have to build some trust with them, right? Like they're going to have to understand that, you've promised a certain business outcomes. You've promised that you are going to deliver on certain items for them that they're looking for from your solution or your, from your services.
[00:10:47] Evan: And once you start to do that, I think that you'll have a much easier time, building that personal relationship with them once they trust you and once they see you, as that trusted advisor. Yeah,
[00:10:58] Cesar: and on the [00:11:00] subject of building trust, right? ideally, right? The handoff from sales to customer success is like seamless, right?
[00:11:06] Cesar: A lot of times things get missed. promises are made that are not necessarily on the roadmap. and I'm curious, if you had those experiences before and how have you handled, that. Erosion of trust, right? Cause sales made a promise, but now as a customer success manager, you might have to clarify, Hey, actually that it's not the case.
[00:11:31] Cesar: So I'm curious, how have you approached
[00:11:32] Evan: that? Yeah. I mean, I think you touched on something important. The sales to success handoff is incredibly important. And that's something that we work with many of our customers on and I see that the folks are getting on much, much better with this, right?
[00:11:44] Evan: Then maybe we were seeing,five or 10 years ago, is that there is an understanding that it's so important to have the continuity and the knowledge transfer, all the way across, not just from the sales to success transition, but as the customer moves from their customer through their [00:12:00] customer journey.
[00:12:00] Evan: We work with so many of our customers to make sure that they are looking at their customer journey outside in So looking at this journey from the customer's perspective, right? It's really easy to get caught up in thinking about your own internal processes and saying, okay, this is the way that we do things.
[00:12:14] Evan: And first, we're going to have our sales team, then, the deal is going to go to. perhaps, like a deal desk or and then we're going to transition this over and then we're going to have the CSM and the services team. And then, for the renewal conversation, maybe there's an account management team.
[00:12:27] Evan: So we're all thinking about like the things that like we're doing, right? The way that we interact with the customer and not enough folks are thinking about what does this all mean for the customer, right? we have to be thinking outside in and thinking from their perspective to say, what is the experience that the customer is going to be having during this period, right?
[00:12:43] Evan: What is the what are the feelings that they're going to be having at each touch point, right? And how can we make sure that they're feeling the way that we would like for them to feel, right? If we, during the transition, if we'd like for them to feel supported, if we want them to feel heard, if we want them to feel that they're being listened to,[00:13:00] they may be anxious, right?
[00:13:01] Evan: there's one of the, things that I think that we forget is, customers many times are making, a very significant investment financially. And also when it comes, and also their time, right? And onboarding a new solution. And, sometimes you see, they're signing a contract, right?
[00:13:16] Evan: They're writing you this huge check. And if you are having a breakdown in your transition process from sales to success, if I'm writing, you 100, 000 check. And then, the salesperson that has been, so you're holding my hand throughout the entire process. Great. I signed a contract that I don't hear it from anyone for a week.
[00:13:32] Evan: How am I feeling? I'm feeling anxious. I'm feeling nervous. I'm probably feeling a little bit of buyer's remorse, right? did I right make the right decision? And, I also then start to, we talked about trust, start losing a little bit of trust. So I say, okay,this person was holding my hand and was very interested in, building this relationship with me, while we were working through the sales motion.
[00:13:50] Evan: But now that I've signed this contract, I've got radio silence, right? So that's the first way that you can. That's a really good way to start eroding that trust and breaking down that trust there. So [00:14:00] making sure that we understand how is the customer going to perceive this, right? so thinking about, being proactive about the strategy on how do we want to approach them?
[00:14:07] Evan: How do we want to make them feel a certain way? knowing that they are going to be in a position where they're making this, significant investment in our solution. we can take steps to make sure that they feel supported by as simple as sending them a welcome email, sending them some swag, making sure that each step of the way throughout that process, it feels seamless to that customer, right?
[00:14:27] Evan: They don't feel that like they're transitioning from through the internally. We're thinking, okay, they're transitioning from one stage to another, the customer should never feel that This should all feel smooth. They should all feel seamless to the customer. So thinking outside in and understanding, what is it that they're feeling, what are they experiencing and being less focused on our processes?
[00:14:46] Evan: Yeah.
[00:14:46] Cesar: It's about empathy, right? Keeping that customer experience and customer touch points, top of mind, especially in this day and age where, especially this year, 2023, has been a very interesting year when it comes to the [00:15:00] economy. And, budgets are getting tighter, CFOs are getting more involved, in the decision making process and even, like evaluating,do we really need this service or software, right?
[00:15:11] Cesar: and, yeah, if, what advice would you have to a customer success manager that might be struggling with,with the current situation, where budgets are tighter and Honestly, negotiations are tougher, right?
[00:15:25] Evan: Yeah, definitely. And so I think one of the things that as a CSM that you can do is number one, being aware of this, right?
[00:15:31] Evan: Being understanding, what challenges your customers are facing, right? Understanding that from a budgetary perspective, many of your customers are going to be asked to take a look at, their tech stack, looking at their spend and figuring out where they can Yeah. Yeah. reduce costs, right?
[00:15:45] Evan: so knowing that in approaching your engagements with your customers and thinking, how can I make sure that this customer is seeing value? And I think one of the easiest ways, is making sure that we understand initially What is [00:16:00] the business outcome? What is the value that the customer is looking to achieve?
[00:16:03] Evan: And setting goals, right? so having those mutually agreed action plan, there's something that we see, more and more companies, leveraging with their customers and saying, okay, as a vendor, here are the things that I am committing to this relationship. to ensure your success.
[00:16:16] Evan: Here are the things that I need from you. I need you to commit to as well to ensure your success. And these are the outcomes that we've agreed upon that we're looking to drive. So understanding what success looks like, I think that's one of the biggest risks that you can have is having a new customer coming on board.
[00:16:31] Evan: And either because this is not something that's been well documented in the sales process, or it's not been well communicated, but not really having a clear understanding or having a very vague understanding of what success looks like. Thank you. And, understanding what success looks like, from the beginning of the relationship is good.
[00:16:48] Evan: But that's also not enough, right? We need to constantly be thinking about how is the business changing? How is the economy changing? And how are these outcomes and goals with our customers? Like, how are those changing and [00:17:00] evolving and making sure that we are taking every opportunity that we can to demonstrate value?
[00:17:06] Evan: so and that's very different from demonstrating usage, right? So we see, I recently conducted a workshop with one of our customers on how to deliver effective E. B. R. S. And Q. B. R. S. And, I think it's, pretty common knowledge, that we want to be reviewing their usage data with them, right?
[00:17:23] Evan: We want to let them know how their usage. is trending, is are they leveraging the platform, but that really you have to connect the dots between understanding. Okay, there's usage, right? There are the actions that they're taking or they're leveraging the system in a certain way. But how does that actually connect to the business value that the business outcomes that they're looking to achieve?
[00:17:43] Evan: Ideally, we can connect this in some way to an ROI. And when I say ROI, like talking about dollars, right? So can we find a proxy? Can we find a way to translate it? How this usage actually tells a story about how they're achieving those outcomes. either this is an hour saved, this is in dollars saved, this is [00:18:00] increases in efficiency, right?
[00:18:02] Evan: So being able to take the usage that we're identifying and highlighting for them and really tell, turning that into a story that we can tell them about the value that they're receiving. So the more frequently and the more impactful that we were able to have these valued.
[00:18:17] Evan: Exchange conversations, easier time we're going to have with these renewal conversations. So hopefully by the time that, we're coming to, four months out, three months out from the renewal, we're not scrambling to say, Hey, here's all the value that you've gotten out. Like we've been reinforcing this all along the way during that journey.
[00:18:33] Evan: And that goes back to the importance of having a customer journey in place. I love that.
[00:18:38] Cesar: what's your approach, to let's say a company wants to build up their customer success function, right? Yeah. What's your approach and how to help this companies, build out their function.
[00:18:51] Evan: Yeah, that's something that we see pretty frequently is as many of our customers are looking at either building out or scaling up their [00:19:00] customer success organizations, and adding a little bit more operational rigor to the way that they are, they're operating. Typically, what we'll do is, with many of our customers in this situation, we begin with what we call an assessment.
[00:19:12] Evan: So this is going to be a diagnostic into the health of the organization and how they're operating, what is their current landscape. And so When you think about an assessment, I always like to compare it to, going in to take a diagnostic on your car, right? So taking my car and hey, there's my car is making a noise or, I've noticed my brakes are squeaking or something like that.
[00:19:33] Evan: I need to bring my car into a mechanic to find out, what's wrong with it. And the way that we do that is we really do, a lot of. Investigation. We do our homework to learn and understand very deeply these customers in the way that they're operating today. So we go in, we will interview their team members.
[00:19:53] Evan: We will interview their customers. We will review all of their documentation to get a real clear [00:20:00] understanding of the way that they're currently operating. And we use this along with our, we have a proprietary maturity model that we use to scale on a scale of 0 to 100. We have different stages that we identify on based on maturity,of, customer success organization.
[00:20:17] Evan: So we leverage those that maturity model to tell our customers. Hey, here's where you rank in this. So this is how you rank compared to, your peers. in the industry. So one of the things I think that's super important as well, even thinking back to the QBRs and EBRs that we were just talking about, people love benchmark data, like you love to be able to see, not only like I even see, SDG and E every month sends me like, Hey, here's your energy usage.
[00:20:40] Evan: Here's how you stack up compared to your neighbors, and it does. Does the way that my neighbors use their gas? Is that going to affect mine? Probably not, but I'm always so interested to see, like, how do I stack up against my neighbors? that's just a small example of, how interesting it is.
[00:20:55] Evan: I think it's human nature to understand. How do I compare to others, right? And so the same thing [00:21:00] applies in business where companies will want to understand, like, how does the maturity of my customer success organization compare to my peers? So that's the first piece. And then we say, okay, this is where you are today.
[00:21:11] Evan: Here's where we think you can be in a year from now, 18 months from now. And we'll prepare a strategic recommendation, list of strategic recommendations,based upon that model and say, okay, here, if we would like to get you to, to this stage in the next 18 months, here's a, Prioritized strategic road map for the things that you need to do to achieve this level of success over, the next 12 to 18 months.
[00:21:35] Cesar: I love that approach. If only every customer success organization would take that approach, especially with deeply understanding first, right? Coming from a place of Hey, let's talk to the stakeholders, right? Let's interview. Let's really understand where the business is at. And then have some benchmark data right to map out.
[00:21:56] Cesar: Here's where you could be in 6 12 months, right? So it's so [00:22:00] important.
[00:22:00] Evan: yeah, and a lot of the value around that as well. So we work with,a plethora of different customers that have varying levels of customer success experience and resources with some that are standing up customer success for the very first time or some that actually do have a quite mature.
[00:22:17] Evan: Customer success organization. And typically what we'll see is that for the customers that do have,a lot of knowledge or experience around customer success are looking to us, not necessarily because it's not something that they couldn't do on their own, but because of the speed with which we're able to operate.
[00:22:35] Evan: And we're able to Implement these changes and to build out these processes for the team. So it's really looking at the time to value there and being able to deliver very quickly. so not necessarily everyone lacks the skill or the competencies, to, for these engagements, but for many of them, it's for the speed, and ease of implementation.
[00:22:56] Evan: Yeah, speed,
[00:22:58] Cesar: in this day and age, that's, A value [00:23:00] proposition. Now Evan, I want to shift gears here and I know that giving back is a big part of How you conduct yourself, how you operate and we met through to the catalyst coaching program. You're actually my mentor and I wanted to ask you about this topic.
[00:23:18] Cesar: why? Why is mentorship important to you? And yeah, you know what? Who's been the most influential mentor that you had over your career?
[00:23:27] Evan: Yeah. So first of all, it's the mentorship and giving back is super important to me just because I feel like I have been so fortunate to have many great mentors that have helped me out and have looked out for me along the way.
[00:23:41] Evan: So I think, first of all, I love meeting new people. I love building relationships. so it's it's fun for me. I really enjoy it. I love getting to talk about customer success, something that I'm very passionate and interested in. And I love hearing people's stories, right? I've been fortunate to meet, different individuals through these programs [00:24:00] that I'll have.
[00:24:00] Evan: very different, exciting and interesting, backgrounds, and different paths that I love learning about. And, I find that I learned so much from these mentorships as well, right? So I participate not only in the Catalyst Coaching Corner, but I'm also a Gainsight Essentials Coach.
[00:24:18] Evan: Mentor and it's just very exciting to me to get to meet, individuals that are working on really interesting things and have really diverse background. So that's something that's been super interesting to me. And I feel like, there's so much that's been given to me that I really want to pay it forward and use the experiences that I have to be able to help others.
[00:24:37] Evan: I think I heard a quote the other day from a colleague that. know, a smart man learns from his own mistakes. A wise man learns from other people's mistakes. And so that's what I'm hoping that I can do is help, others with some of the hurdles or challenges that I've overcome in the past and make sure that they don't make those same, those same mistakes in the future so they can learn from my [00:25:00] experiences.
[00:25:01] Evan: And I would say, one of the most influential mentors that I've had, not only mentor, but also a good friend of mine is one of my colleagues in our managing partner at growth molecules is Sabina ponds and Sabina and I have worked together for going on seven years now. So I've worked together for a very long time.
[00:25:21] Evan: We're neighbors. We actually live very close to each other. I think we're, a half mile away from each other, but, great colleagues, good friends. And I've learned so much from her. And one of the things that, I've really taken to heart and really has changed my leadership, style, the way that I really bring myself to work every day is Always thinking about, how important it's to, to bring all your personal and your professional self to work, right?
[00:25:45] Evan: And it's something that really has made work and my professional life so much more enjoyable for me is that I feel comfortable being myself at work.
[00:25:53] Evan: I don't put on a certain air about myself or conduct myself a certain way because I want to be [00:26:00] perceived a certain way. I really operate like when you talk to me, when you meet with me, this is Evan. I am the same way that I bring myself professionally that I do, in my personal life.
[00:26:08] Evan: And I think that authenticity also helps to build trust, right? Like when I,when I began working with Sabina, I saw that was the way that she operated. And frankly, it made me, trust her and really want to. To do my best and to bring my best self to work for her as a leader because I saw how authentic that she was in the way that she led.
[00:26:27] Evan: She was truthful. I knew that she would always share as much as she possibly could with us, on her team, but it really helps to build that trust and to build those relationships.
[00:26:37] Cesar: Thanks for being authentic. I met, one of my heroes like many years ago, and , the way they show online was different than how they were in actual person, and that's never, that never feels good, because I don't know, I feel if, you should always carry yourself with authenticity,
[00:26:55] Cesar: so I would, I love that. By you. And now you, you mentioned, Many times [00:27:00] that you also learn through this mentorship opportunities, right? is there any recent opportunity that stands out to you that you learn something from your
[00:27:08] Evan: mentee?
[00:27:09] Evan: Yeah, so I think there was one of my mentees that I worked with that was really focused on learning more about like the reporting side and kind of the data side of being a CS leader. And that's something that has always really been something that I felt is one of my strong points. So I'm a big numbers guy.
[00:27:28] Evan: I love the reporting. I love the operational side of the business as well. back when I, was working at a company called Mavenlink, that was really when I had my introduction to, renewal and retention forecasting, and that was something that, that really, it really resonated with me. I love the numbers.
[00:27:45] Evan: I love being able to see, where are we going to hit our targets for the quarter, putting together, All of our forecasts and bringing together all this data for, multiple teams, right? So looking at our renewals and expansions and saying, okay, are we on track and be able to build out dashboards?
[00:27:59] Evan: that was something that [00:28:00] I really enjoyed and working with this mentee. it was something that really I realized, like, how much that part, I really enjoy doing that. I know that's something that, that she was, I don't wanna say struggling with a bit, but it was something that she was really focused on building out, her skillset around.
[00:28:16] Evan: And I, it really dawned on me like how much that was, like an important piece of the role for me. So definitely a learning experience, learning you know, more about myself, and the things that, that I really enjoy. And not only that, but it's, I've learned a lot through that program. Like how much I actually enjoy being able to help others.
[00:28:33] Evan: I love that. And,
[00:28:35] Cesar: Evan, you are a very unique individual. Typically, people that are good with the relationship side of things, the data side, tends to be less, less of a skill set for them. But you seem to have data, relationships, and leadership. It's like the perfect. Triangle and you love to give back to it.
[00:28:54] Cesar: So it's like amazing. It's like a diamond, up there. So thanks.
[00:28:59] Evan: Thanks so [00:29:00] much. Yeah, I try to Do as much as I can to broaden my own skill sets and to try to be as well rounded as I can And, I, I always feel people are nervous about trying new things. And that's something that, I've really tried to rush towards.
[00:29:14] Evan: So I try to be one of one that is a problem solver professionally, that doesn't, shy away from something because I don't know Necessarily if this isn't necessarily my strong suit or something that I would say is like really in like my wheelhouse, but, giving it a shot, stepping outside of my comfort zone and this is something that I even did very recently with a, webinar series or an interview series that I did with growth molecules.
[00:29:41] Evan: It was called black voices and customer success. And we did this in honor of black history month. And I spoke to a number of black leaders in customer success. And, that was something that, hosting,an interview series was not something that I'd ever done before. I was a little bit nervous about it.
[00:29:55] Evan: you're really putting yourself out there. and I enjoyed it so much. It ended up being so [00:30:00] rewarding by really stepping out of my comfort zone and just saying, you know what, I'm going to try it out, let's see how it goes. And I found out that I really liked it. potentially in the future, maybe we'll see some more of those coming out.
[00:30:09] Evan: you'll, you don't know for sure how you feel about something, whether or not you're going to enjoy it, unless you give it a shot. And, I'm always reminded, by my children, I have, a three year old son and a daughter who will be five in July and man, they, they are just like, yes, people, You ask them, they want to do something. Yes. They don't even know what it is. Yes. So I, it's inspiring to me. And it's always, it's a great reminder, to just say yes to things sometimes, even if you don't feel, comfortable doing it, or you feel like this is something that I don't know if I'm going to necessarily be good at,just try it out and give it a shot.
[00:30:40] Evan: Try it out.
[00:30:40] Cesar: Just do it like, like the Nike slogan, right? And, yeah, I love that. we're going to put ourselves out there, get outside the comfort zone. Even for me, this podcast is stepping outside that comfort zone, making the ask to Evan, Hey, can we record an episode? it was very uncomfortable, but you got to put yourself out there, right?
[00:30:57] Cesar: Otherwise you don't make [00:31:00] progress.
[00:31:00] Evan: Yeah, I think that's so true. And I wanted during one of my interviews, we talked a lot about mentorship, and I feel like a question that you hear quite a bit is, folks asking, like, how do I find a mentor? Like, how do I go about finding, asking someone to be my mentor?
[00:31:16] Evan: And, I think that folks would be surprised how many If you were to if you were to reach out and say, Hey, I'm interested in learning from you. How many people are really interested in giving back and the people that will say yes, people are interested in helping people are interested in leveraging their experiences and their expertise to help others.
[00:31:33] Evan: I think that It would be a good idea to reach out if you're thinking about it, finding someone that has expertise in your space, someone who is where you would like to be in 10 or 20 years and ask them, say, Hey, I'm really impressed with what you've done. I would love to learn more about how you got to where you are.
[00:31:49] Evan: would you be interested in having a conversation with me? And I think you'd be surprised at how many people would be willing to
[00:31:56] Cesar: spend that time. Yeah, people want to give back, especially in the same [00:32:00] age. All you have to do is be genuine about making an ask. And, most people would say yes, or maybe even point you in the right direction.
[00:32:08] Cesar: Yeah, that's right. Now, one last question before we wrap up here, Evan. You mentioned your dad and I'm a dad as well, right? And I think our daughter shared the same day and month. I was, being a dad, shifted your perspective into how you approach your career, how you approach,
[00:32:30] Evan: life. It is absolutely without a doubt and made me more patient.
[00:32:35] Evan: It has made me so much more of a patient person. And, there's, I see every day, the things that my Children will do that used to maybe irritate me, right? I'm all I'm, I would find myself always in a hurry. I'd be trying to get out the door. I'm, I'm asking you to tie your shoes and put your clothes on.
[00:32:52] Evan: I've had to ask you three times, but I've tried so much more recently to be intentional about being patient with them and [00:33:00] understanding and seeing how quickly they've grown. Just understanding that, they will not be this age forever that, pretty soon they're not going to need me.
[00:33:06] Evan: Mhm. So really making sure that I am intentional with my actions that I'm stopping and thinking and giving them a minute. So I've really translated this from my personal to my professional life is being more patient, being more understanding and being more kind. I would also have to say that, man, it gives me so much more of an appreciation, that I definitely did not have when I was younger.
[00:33:27] Evan: for others, other working parents, right? Whether they're working mothers, working fathers, and the empathy that it's given me for wow, thinking back, throughout my career before, before I had kids, I had such a lack of understanding of, what some of my, my bosses and some of my colleagues were going through.
[00:33:42] Evan: and not that I wasn't sensitive to it, but, I, I just didn't necessarily understand, the the situations in particular, sometimes that they were in. if I could go back, I certainly would have wanted to be more empathetic. then maybe I was, but yeah,I've learned a lot about patients from them.
[00:33:56] Evan: And, I love that,in particular, one of the gain [00:34:00] site, pillars that really has resonated with me was, operating with a child like joy. And you see how excited they get about the littlest things and how happy they get about, things that, that seems so trivial.
[00:34:11] Evan: So trying to do the same thing in my own life, being being more appreciative, and thinking professionally,be grateful and thankful for the small wins, right? you're able to help out one of your customers, you're able to deliver on a promise, those little things, taking a moment to step back and celebrate them.
[00:34:27] Evan: I love
[00:34:28] Cesar: it because you took what I've been feeling for the past month and you just put it out there like perfectly and especially when it comes to patients. I've been trying to be more patient as well. And what you said, right? Like they're only going to be a five year old, six year olds, like very limited time.
[00:34:45] Cesar: So I'm, I'm trying to be more appreciative as well of those moments.
[00:34:49] Cesar: Awesome, Evan. I want to do a, rapid fire closing as a way to wrap up the episode where I'll basically ask you a question and you just give me the top of my answer that, [00:35:00] that comes to mind. ready? Yeah. All right, let's do it. first question, one book that has influenced your career
[00:35:09] Evan: or life?
[00:35:10] Evan: Yeah, so this is probably a very well known book, but, Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins, is a book that, man, I've read it a couple of times and it's a very gritty book. It's, it's definitely, can be a difficult read, but, man, that there is nothing that will get you more motivated, to accomplish something in your life than that book.
[00:35:30] Cesar: That's a great book. I haven't read it fully, but yeah, Demi Gauguin's is anomaly, but super, super inspiring. Awesome. All right. Second question. in the recent year, one of the most worthwhile investments that you have made, and it could be, something financial, it could be a physical thing.
[00:35:48] Cesar: It could be a relationship.
[00:35:50] Evan: Yeah, I think this may be the easy question, but definitely buying a house, we were very fortunate to buy it at a good time. And,it's proved to be [00:36:00] a pretty good investment for us. And, we bought in a place where, thinking forward, we knew that we wanted to have a family and we live in a place where we're surrounded by other young families.
[00:36:09] Evan: And it's really exciting to be able to see the kids playing outside together. And,this area that we live in, Rancho Mission Viejo is growing very quickly. So definitely one of the best investments in recent years that we've made, that'll be a financial one. Yeah,
[00:36:23] Cesar: absolutely.
[00:36:23] Cesar: Buying a house is still one of the best investments you can make, in my opinion. All right. Next question. That you think of often or a life model that you live your life by?
[00:36:35] Evan: I would say, so this one is not necessarily that I live my life by, but one that I think of often, professionally is that, there's always More going on behind the scenes than and it's something that I was told by a colleague a long time ago, and the reason that I think of it as being particularly powerful is that, it's easy to make knee jerk reactions to things that happened to your decisions that are being made, [00:37:00] but always remembering that, there's probably more context.
[00:37:03] Evan: To the situation or the story that you're unaware of, right? So not jumping to conclusions, assuming that things are happening for a certain reasoning, understanding that there's probably more to the story than So it's something that I find gives me again, going back to the patients, not getting emotional about certain things, at work.
[00:37:19] Evan: it's been, it's really been helpful for me to remove myself from situations that may be difficult or emotional or challenging and saying, you know what, you may not have the whole story. Give them some patience. So that's something I think of often. That is so
[00:37:33] Cesar: powerful, right? You don't have the whole story, which a lot of times it's...
[00:37:38] Cesar: Happens more, more frequently. Awesome. All right. Next, next question here. in the last year, is there, I believe that you have adopted or a new habit that you have implemented that has,impacted
[00:37:50] Evan: your life?
[00:37:51] Evan: I would say a habit that for me. So one of the things that, I struggled with a lot when I was younger was, procrastination. [00:38:00] And this is something that I've learned, and I've really watched, embodied by my wife and it's. Just doing things. Right now, right? if you can do it, if you can do something, especially like thinking throughout the workday, if there's something that you can accomplish in a few minutes, don't put it on a to do list, do it now.
[00:38:17] Evan: And I, I see, I have a wife that isn't that's just she's type a and she just never said, yeah, exactly. Yeah, she never stops. she's always going and I've learned that from her is that, you know what, if you can do something quickly, don't put it on a to do list that I'll do later.
[00:38:29] Evan: If you can do it in less than five minutes, do it now. And that's made so much of a difference in, in my productivity and my efficiency. You
[00:38:36] Cesar: know, what's funny. My wife tells me that all the time.
[00:38:39] Evan: Yeah, it's I mean, it's true. Yeah. If you can do it quickly, just do it now.
[00:38:44] Cesar: I agree with you. awesome. I went, last question here, what would be your number?
[00:38:49] Cesar: What are the takeaways from the episode as it relates to people in customer success in their career? Maybe they want to transition into customer success or maybe they [00:39:00] want to continue going deeper into the customer success career. What would be one of your takeaways that you would like them to take from the episode?
[00:39:10] Evan: Yeah, I would say that the real takeaway for me would be the importance of a network and building relationships, right? Not being afraid to reach out, not being afraid to contact people, build those relationships, say hello, have a conversation, even if it's not, it doesn't have to be a conversation to serve you, right?
[00:39:26] Evan: It can just be. Introductions, making a connection, building a relationship and learning from others and learning from their experiences. So in particular, if you're interested in breaking into customer success, if you're interested in advancing your career again, find someone that's in a position that you're in either someone that already works in customer success or someone who has a role.
[00:39:47] Evan: you know that you would be interested in and reach out to them. Say, Hey, I would love to hear more about your experience. And if there's any, lessons learned that you would be willing to share with me, and like you said, maybe they'll take the call and at a minimum, maybe they can point you in the [00:40:00] direction of some helpful resources or someone else that would be willing to spend the time.
[00:40:03] Evan: So not being afraid,to network and to reach out.
[00:40:07] Cesar: Awesome. Amen. thanks so much for being generous with your time and sharing with us your experience in customer success and, what we can do. To advance in our career, what, what's the best way for people, if they want to get in contact with you, what would be the best way to, to find out more about,
[00:40:23] Evan: about your work?
[00:40:24] Evan: Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, just Evan Williams. It's easy. It's like the bourbon or, my email address is just Evan, E V A N at growth molecules. com.
[00:40:32] Cesar: Awesome. Thanks so much. We'll make sure to include that in the show notes, but for right now, thanks. Thanks for your time. We appreciate you. Thanks. These are my pleasure.
[00:40:39] Evan: Thank you.
[00:40:40] Cesar: all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you [00:41:00] would like to support the podcast.
[00:41:01] Cesar: Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.