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课代表立正的官方Podcast
深度访谈，有用干货，亲身验证的「真本事」
Superlinear Academy创始人，Maven Top AI Instructor
前Statsig布道师（OpenAI收购），腾讯副总监，Meta，Amazon；康奈尔经济学博士
社区：Superlinear.Academy
课程：ai-builders.com
个人：lizheng.ai
hey welcome thanks yeah YZ welcome to my
channel so uh Nick is a master Somali I
uh that I met how many years ago three
years ago I think three years ago and we
became friends yes through drinking wine
and playing poker that's right we
have shared some great bottles and good
games yeah I do feel like whenever I
have wine my poker game suffers me too
but that's okay and you've introduced me
to a lot of good food too oh yeah yeah
and we had uh some business
collaborations together Nick was doing
uh one Consulting and all this uh buying
and selling one training one selection
one yes catering yeah yeah so today I
want to interview you kind of about the
tank as a masters among a in the field
so I want to just listen to your
opinions of what do you think one is
about so you know for those who are less
familiar with the master sommelier
program basically encompasses the world
of of wine also Spirits beer sake baiju
and
I have done intensive studies to to
learn about these Beverages and and now
one of
maybe close to 300 in the world so in in
a way I'm in a very select group
and an expert but I also look around at
other friends who aren't even in the the
master sommelier program with knowledge
and business skills and things that just
seem make me look like a beginner so
um
how do those friends view you that's a
question though because I find myself
actually envious sometimes these guys
are drinking these wines and I'm sure
plenty of people could look at me and be
envious and it's this thing that I think
any professional person
has to deal with yeah of
or you know let's say you're the CEO of
Honda
are you then going to be jealous of the
CEO of of Tesla or of uh GM or yeah
um you know so it's it's these
top Achievers sort of looking at each
other but
but I feel like that's yeah that's not
only in the professions or the you know
in the business just as anyone right you
can always compare yourself to somewhere
else at some Dimension and they'll find
someone who is better or uh that you you
are immersed off right but uh I got some
motivation of growing improving comes
from looking inward right like you you
feel satisfied or motivated doing the
work every day what motivates you to do
the work is the love of the passion
about the beverages instead of you know
I need to be better than someone else
well and that's that's a vision that
I've been trying to cultivate is
you know it's very easy to compare to
others but ultimately like my biggest
supporter and biggest adversary is
myself because I have a so many visions
and ideas of what I want to accomplish
that
there's no comparing to what anyone else
is doing it's all my own world and I
think my specialist my specialty in a
way is the selection that I've
been building here is one of the most
representative selections of wine styles
of around the world versus
you know some other peers might be like
Bordeaux Specialists and be very deep in
that area I have
in the cellar right now at least a
thousand different types of wine and
with all those Styles combined I feel
like I have
types from every important wine region
in the world and I'm even finding new
ones all the time so that's
what I take pride in all right I think I
have two uh kinds of questions or two
thesis of questions
first is this style This World style
right how like when you go to when you
select a region and do funds the
representative
Battle of Representative morarity what
do you mean by being representative or
what like you have like a thousand
bottles seems like a lot but uh compared
to all the battles out there right it's
very small proportion then how do you
choose one variety versus the hundreds
that you didn't choose I guess that's
that's number one and this is number two
is you talk about television and your
ideas
um probably this vision and the ideas
arise from
your observation or your experience you
know something is lacking there is a
problem you want to solve or there is a
value you want to create right or there
is a demand you want to fulfill so if
you care to share some of those visions
in thinking about classic styles from
around the world
um I think something that might be
considered a classic is within wine a
particular region often has great
varieties that are
historic to that place so maybe it's
Pinot Noir in burgundy or tempranio in
Spain but then going in even deeper
there's areas where there are grape
varieties that aren't made anywhere else
so in Italy we see Bianco Leila in Lazio
or in Argentina we see Bernarda and I'm
super interested in these very unique
little corners of the of the world and
it actually makes me feel connected
to the to the whole world through these
little unique points huh yeah it's
almost like you go to a local you visit
somewhere and there is a place that
sells local produce that you cannot get
anywhere else right but I guess for one
luckily for us you can import and we can
drink at home we don't have to visit
that special place but in this way we
feel connected too yes by by opening the
bottle it transports us to that place
for a short amount of time I feel like
there's uh there needs to be an
education behind each of your battle
right oh sure if I buy some special one
from some special region if I don't know
then I'm missing out a lot of the
special connection or the uh yeah just
the The Experience behind the wine I
guess I feel like my work is a lot like
a DJ and I have many genres here it's
not just classical it's it's not just
Jazz you know I have a few few songs
from every genre you could think of I
feel like you are a DJ you know music
history class yeah but I so if I'm only
gonna have let's say five reggae songs
in the seller I want them to be the best
the best you have to have Bob Marley but
then you can have some some Modern kind
of new versions as well I see but I'm
very interested in having the classics
juxtaposed against some Modern Styles as
well I see and over the time the one is
to build the selection you have in here
becomes very special it's your selection
and the represents your take on you know
what is the best and what is worth it of
being you know represented I guess being
yeah worthy it becomes more than just
individual bottles The Collection itself
to me has a personality nice so this
this kind of library or catalog in
itself it reflects my creativity okay
okay uh what's really neat about a lot
of the wines that I have is that
um
I may have the last
it's like the last dinosaur I may have
the last of a certain kind of wine in
the whole country yeah and I think
that's super cool
ideally everything in here
I find to be a superior taste as well
something that
would be
enjoyable for me any day of the week
okay let's dig into that a little bit
because when people like newbie like me
right when they look into a one we don't
know a lot of the history or the you
know the making the processing of the
one we are like uh seeking that
education but we don't have enough
knowledge so the the first two things I
guess we think about is the price and
how it tastes right like
so apparently you said the one that you
think tastes well right but how how do
you judge like because for example for
me at the beginning I only like 40 lines
and then I like one with strong body and
then you introduce me to the world of
natural lines at the beginning I feel
like oh a little word was how weird
right but then I feel like okay this is
what's the one naturally becomes and I
learned to appreciate those flavors so
the taste varies by individual but I
feel like this it's also uh being able
to be educated education the exposure
over time is how we learn uh imagine a
baby who's never seen certain colors
before sees orange for the first time
and it's uh makes a big impression a lot
of people when it comes to Wine only
know like blue red and yellow those are
the only colors they know and that's
like maybe they only know all Cabernet
Sauvignon Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and
for my perspective is I have all the
colors of the rainbow and all the
variations of the colors and all the
different textures and everything so
that's just because of exposure for
maybe 10 years trying 20 000 different
wines a year and
building up this sort of taste memory
and for those who aren't able to taste
that many wines I would still encourage
them to
find some favorites and always try new
things too
that is a very important Dimension I
always want to try new ones but if I try
for example a thousand bottles of
Yellowtail I won't paper to tell very
much right then like
there must be some a lot of bottles like
we know each one is unique and has its
own
um like a flavor but there must be some
better ones and the worst ones right oh
without question and
uh how to tell like how do you decide
this bottle tastes good and that bottle
doesn't taste good I I don't think I
don't think it requires a lot of
heavy cognition to decide if something
tastes good or not it's kind of an
instant thing it's kind of like when
you've when you taste something that
reminds me reminds me of your childhood
that feeling of nostalgia is instant it
doesn't require you to think about it so
the thing about our taste is that our
preferences evolve over time so the ones
that I may have enjoyed five years ago
I probably still like but maybe maybe
the wines that I first enjoyed 10 years
ago I kind of graduate through to
different styles and I'm in the mood for
different things same thing with music I
I find myself listening to some genres
um for like three months straight and
then I'll switch and go to something
else
so I think our tastes do evolve and
change over time
um but yeah as far as like what's good
there's there's Trends there's things
that are
popular to the General Public
but if we think about what's good
you think about with Foods
most people start with things that are
sweet most children hate hey yeah sweet
things yeah most children hate bitter
and sour so usually the the first wines
that most people start with are soft
sweet wines
and then as time goes on we can develop
an appreciation for sour and bitter
and
grow to understand you know let's say
Italian wines can be very bitter or um
you know certain white wines can be
quite sour and they can be displeasing
at first if you're not used to it but
then you go to like it kind of like a
bitter melon as a vegetable oh yeah I'm
not used to bitter melon yet but some
people are used to it and love it
even tea like uh or beer like a
beginning I would taste is bitterness
but over time you can tell this is ulo
this is a red tea under overtime intent
this is good quality and right I like
this kind of uh you don't taste the
bitterness anymore you just taste the
quality or the uh I don't know the
goodness I I yeah I do find whenever you
brought one adoption king or whatever
happened like uh The Taste can vary but
the fitting uh after drinking it it's
just you know I feel wholesome or
whatever like it just feels good but
versus some commercial like even like
sometimes those ones can be very
expensive and I don't feel good after
drinking those like not body feeling
like it like it's not headache or
anything but just you don't feel
satisfied I guess I think it can be
compared with foods to things that are
mass Market processed foods versus
home-cooked ingredients and a lot of the
great wines that I enjoy are not made in
large quantities they're made on the
scale of let's say five thousand to
fifty thousand bottles per year by the
winery many commercial wines that are
found in the grocery store would be made
in the hundreds of thousands to millions
of bottles per year so when getting to
that more it's more Family Farms family
wineries
they are making wine that isn't doesn't
have to be consistent across a million
bottles yeah it only has to be
consistent across let's say ten thousand
and when it that scale is smaller it can
the quality is just going to be higher
yeah
speaking of quality we can go to the
second Factor price
right uh what's the like average or beta
what's the median of uh price of a
selection
you know so speaking in US dollars I
would say fifty dollars
retail for a bottle would be would be
the median I do have many selections
that are in the 20s and then I have some
that are in the in the thousands as well
but I am thinking of
most days if I want to drink a wine that
has a lot of energy and personality I'm
probably going to reach for something
that's 40 to 60 dollars yeah
um and that's where I'm at right now
um
I didn't start at that level when I was
first getting into wine I was in the 10
15 20 Level and I think most people
should stay there and there's a lot of
great wines let's say in the 20s to 30s
that's that's where quality
is is possible it takes a big jump okay
then the quality from 30 to 50 it's a
smaller jump and then the quality from
50 to 100 it's really not much of a jump
and above 100
quality it really does taper off so
I think if people can get to like that
30 bottle that's where you can get
amazing wine from anywhere in the world
and these wines that end up being super
expensive are
they're priced like that because of
Rarity and market demand but it's not
because of quality necessarily should
because like when I drink wine from
China uh it's very difficult to get a
good bottle with 30 US dollar okay like
usually you'll have to go to like 18.
two hundred dollars yeah I think the
economics of
taxes and getting the wine there Market
to mine yeah it's um we probably have an
advantage in this States and in Europe
it's even it's even cheaper so well
especially right now right yeah you're
going down it's good to a half price so
let's let's take burgundy for example uh
I I could get a
you know really great Burgundy wine
let's say luigiado merso here in the
United States
for retail 75 dollars in China it's
probably
double or triple and in Europe it might
be half so you know it's part of its
shipping part of it is tax and then
availability demand so
yeah it's so interesting that the same
bottle of wine can cost so many
different prices around the world yeah
okay but that guys you know I don't
think that's good quality because of
everyone just check out your website
yeah I know we are in the United States
right anywhere in the United States and
then um
sometimes I can do International too so
right
nice yeah I should bring a kiss back
home you should
if I can I don't think yeah the logistic
is just no that's a bit complicated yeah
okay so uh
you your style is the representative of
kind of a world history of what sure
yeah and uh taste quality the oldest
bottle the oldest bottle I have right
now is from 1875.
1875 wow yeah that's a Madeira wine from
Portugal still mature one oh yeah and it
should still be delicious and then the
youngest wine would be 20 21. so
um you know long a long history there uh
almost 150 years of History so I don't
know that's pretty cool huh yeah yeah
definitely worth checking out until one
list sure is it updated yeah I try to
update it every week and
um that's a whole task to itself and but
to enjoy doing so I enjoy it it's sort
of my
yeah it's hard to say like my life's
work but it's
something that I've become good at and
keeps me energized keeps my creativity
going nice
yeah okay let's go to the second phases
of my questions you have been doing your
own business I like a lot of your
colleagues and you deal with customers
for 10 you deal with shipping you deal
with importance firsthand what do you
feel like is uh lacking or what do you
want to fulfill like we're doing to
create value in this industry
other than what you have been doing
right now yeah I mean I think
there are all these different
relationships that you've described I
have my client relationships the
different suppliers that I work with the
wineries themselves and then kind of the
broader audience of people who've never
even
bought wine for me but watched the posts
and have followed my my journey so I
think One Vision I'd like to do into the
future is to somehow
tie that together and offer more
resources maybe on video or or audio
just how I can share what it is that I
do and share my passion I'm a bit you
know self-conscious and and it's not
always easy for me to want to put out an
idea for fear of the natural criticism
that might happen yeah and uh there is
always criticism like even if 100 people
likes you and it takes one criticism
criticism to you know destroy our mood
and destroy our motivation and we have
that negative bias where if we have 99
likes and one thumbs down the thumbs
down it stands out and it it's what I
might remember all day long so
I think it's important any I think any
creator has to deal with that
but when I'm here in the cellar by
myself there's no one criticizing it's
just me and my work and my headphones in
and all the bottles my little friends
here so
um
so I guess uh content is education and
just introducing people to like all the
nice things behind yeah I mean I think
it'd be interesting to talk about the
wines of course I'd also like to talk
about how I do my work how like educate
on how I developed my inventory system
or how I do the shipping how to wrap a
bottle and send it to Singapore and have
it show up in one piece
um how to negotiate doing the sales part
so all these behind the scenes things
that I've just had to learn on my own
there was no one that really that's true
taught me in a package deal so that
could be something that would be unique
because there's plenty of people out
there who say oh this is this is what
Pinot Noir is or this is what uh
Chardonnay is and how they taste but
there's not too many that tie it all
together with a business mindset
let's see if you can franchise the
business with someday who knows yeah but
I mean I I follow a lot of content
creators and really enjoy whatever they
have to say and I don't always watch all
their videos and some I like better than
others but I do think that creators can
add a lot of value
and just expand ideas one of the
channels on YouTube that I started
watching was called wristwatch Revival
and it's this this guy who takes apart
antique uh mechanical wrist watches
cleans them puts them back together
makes sure they're running and I'm not
I'm not going to become a watchmaker but
I really like the process yeah yeah and
I think there's a lot of people who
aren't even into wine who would who
would enjoy the process of what I do
nice
yeah maybe I can just link to my camera
and you can you know feel all day but uh
editing videos yeah if you enjoy editing
videos then that would be great right
yeah it's a lot of work it's not too
much but uh still it takes like you are
already very busy so
yeah well
but uh yeah like if someone is
interested in uh watching or creating
this kind of content maybe you can reach
out to can you reach out to you yeah
it'd be fun to partner with
someone who wants to do the the
production side and I could be there
talking head yeah and they kind of just
hide and delete it on the detective
covers for you that's right I don't have
to see them well it's like uh Johnny
Depp I saw a quote that he said that he
makes his movies but he never watches
his own movies so I'd be interested to
like
talk and and make the content but then
not even watch it yeah all right and in
terms of the industry so this is uh you
started this and uh you feel like if you
just tell people the process or tell
people what show the people what to do
uh it it would uh be useful at least to
you three years ago
it would be and maybe I'm giving away
secrets and IP but you know what who
cares like if you can encourage more
people to be in this business I think
it's all you know it's a good thing even
if there's more competitors still like
they are I feel like the demand is much
higher than uh you know Phoenix you know
let's say that the knowledge and tools
that I have it's like I have a really
good hammer and I might want to keep
this Hammer to myself because I'm able
to build really well with it well just
release the hammer and ultimately
whoever works the hardest is going to
build the best house yeah you know so
it's not just having the tools it's
showing up every day yeah and doing it
rain or shine yeah so that's I think
that's the separator so just put the
knowledge out there and those who are
willing to work yeah they'll make use of
it and
I'm not I'm not worried about
losing something by by sharing sure yeah
okay yeah like uh that's one thing and
uh about the industry anything else like
you feel like there is an unsatisfied uh
demand for one consumers
that you really want to there are yeah I
I think there are millions of people who
are
interested and eager in getting into
wines
and I think there are enough wines that
everyone can have but what sometimes
happens is as soon as someone gets into
wine they want to get the rare
collectible wines
and I think a lot of people a lot of the
clients that I've seen come and go are
just interested in like oh I have this
one last bottle of something
and they
want that Trophy and then they move on
to the next Merchant who has the next
trophy so
I think I would like to encourage not
just chasing the the trophy wines but
getting into
you know wine regardless of its sort of
Mystique
um so that's like the ultra collectors
who are into that and then there's
people who have never tasted wine at all
and there's a big chasm in between the
big chasmine between I also feel this
because before I met you uh I sing I've
seen as the one who introduced me to the
world of like final quality but it's not
so expensive ones right and you are the
one who really you know showed me a lot
and helped me do other connections and
uh
really enjoying nice wise for a couple
years but before like without knowing
you I feel like I would be stuck in the
place of you know drinking
Whole Foods or Trader Joe or Costco one
yeah and never being able to be exposed
to like
the good things out there
I know and it's tricky because
I ultimately don't know how to scale my
business to the same reach of Someone
Like A Whole Foods or a Costco
they they have all the logistics in
place and good quality wines for for the
masses but you know I'm kind of a
One-Stop shop in terms of the products I
can offer but I think the knowledge I
can offer could scale but I think that
if someone has the knowledge of 20
classic wines
that could be empowering it's just like
with with someone is interested in
cocktails If someone knows 20 classic
cocktail recipes they know Cocktails so
I think it'd be interesting I'm just
sort of riffing on this idea of
maybe come up with a list of what are
the 20 most important wine Styles in the
world
that someone could learn about and maybe
list 10 options of each style
so it would be maybe 200 different 200
different bottles but yeah what are the
what are the 21s that Define the wine
world
right now and that's attainable for
someone to learn yeah there was one
cocktail book I really enjoyed you know
the book but I forgot the name it's a
scrapbook with a lot of pictures okay
and they start with the six basic Styles
right like uh we use Liquid intelligence
is that it no okay it's a different I'll
I'll find it and I'll put it on the
screen yeah but there's a six uh basic
Styles and all the derivations yeah
based on those six basic Styles totally
yeah so you know in the wine world
Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon that
would be on the list for sure
Napa Valley charbono
would not be on that list it's too it's
too niche so
yeah focus on the classics
and explain why they're classics
and then every other type of wine that's
out there
is sort of
an easy reference point from that yeah
that basis yeah I feel like once you
introduce the classics uh then you can
connect the dots find linkages yes yeah
right the history of companies right and
you know how it compares to different
companies area and then the knowledge
expands and you have a whole world to
explore for yourself
super interesting idea okay
nice nice
all right anything else
that's all I got for now okay short and
sweet okay thank you Nick thank you
congratulations on the business growing
year by year well thank you for your
support appreciate it YZ okay bye