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KTBS Podcasting and the Committee of 100 present Good to Know Shreveport-Bossier, a podcast series showcasing the good things happening in our area. We’ll go in-depth about economic development, community growth and other topics about initiatives that are having a positive impact in our community. We’ll have new episodes every other Wednesday. You can find the KTBS Good to Know podcast wherever you listen to podcasting. Or go to KTBS.com or KTBS Now on your streaming device to see the full interview.
Hello and welcome to Good to Know
Shreveport Bossier,
a podcast showcasing the good things
happening in our community.
I'm Nate Flew Hardy.
This is my co-host,
Paul Reiser, a local business man,
a member of the Committee of 100
and each podcast here.
We love to focus on the topics
and initiatives
that are having a positive impact
on our community.
Certainly a lot of things to talk about.
We have a very special guest
in studio today.
So Paul, I'll let you introduce
today's guest.
Nice to have you again, my friend.
Well, thanks, Nate. Hey,
and thanks for being here today.
Stepping in for Jeff. Yeah,
and thanks for being nice.
So when Jeff comes back,
could you give him some lessons
on how to, like, give a nice introduction?
I can certainly try to do it.
I'm a little off my game right now,
but it's not easy to.
Well, give me time. No, no, no, no way.
But it's easy to do that
when you're surrounded by good people.
And we certainly have the best here today
when we talk about good things
now, talking about good things.
So we're talking about
history today, Shreveport history,
Shreveport has such a remarkable history
and a lot of things
I've heard about the music history
and science and different things.
But today we're going to talk about
something, a story I wasn't aware of.
Yeah.
So in the 1800s, there was a yellow fever
epidemic in Shreveport,
and there was these five guys, five priest
that totally selfless
actually sacrificed their own lives
to serve during this during this event,
this horrible event.
And there's a documentary
that's been made about them.
This documentary is being played
all over the world.
It's winning all kinds of awards.
And it was based on a book
that was written by our guest today.
Okay. That's the story here.
So Dr.
Cheryl White,
she's a professor of history
at Louisiana State University, Shreveport.
She is a teacher, author, speaker,
fresh back from Rome
and and her television appearances.
So, man, Dr. White,
thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
This sounds like this is going to be fun.
Oh, absolutely.
Well, you know, yeah, it could be.
It could be fun. It has.
It sounds that way.
Well, you know, when I brought up the fact
that we're going to be
talking about history today,
I knew that we had the right person on.
Dr. White, we've talked to you
a lot on KPBS about many different things
in our community.
But this one in particular,
this is one that I interviewed you about,
did an in-depth story years ago.
So as Paul was saying,
these five priests were really incredible.
We're going to enjoy this today, right?
That's good.
So, I mean, you've got such
a diverse experience in in history now.
How did you get so interested in history
and what were you doing in Rome
just recently?
Oh, my gosh.
I don't know how
I got interested in history,
but I can tell you
it's been a lifelong love.
It's the first thing I ever read
were histories.
So I always knew
that's what I wanted to study.
But I was in Rome,
actually in the archives at the Vatican,
researching on another project
and also meeting with the
for the causes of science
related to these five priests.
Okay, Well, tell us a little bit.
Well, just tell us about the five,
the five gentlemen
and how this how this came about.
That you found this story
and now that it's become this
so critically acclaimed documentary. Sure.
So so you sort of set the context for it
when you said that
that there was an 1873
yellow fever epidemic in Shreveport.
And I think if people understand
that, we can begin to approach
how this story really shapes our history
as a city and also gives us a model
we can sort of live by.
So the city lost one quarter
of its population in about 12 weeks. Wow.
And when you think about that on today's
scale, we'd be talking about 50,000 people
dead in a very short period of time.
Many people fled the city.
They thought that was the answer.
Was it to get away from the fever?
And in this case, we have
five Roman Catholic priests
who all made a very crucial choice.
Two of them were already in the area.
A third was in Webster Parish.
What is today? Your parish, actually.
And they those three made the decision
to stay,
to stay and care
for those who were sick and dying.
Well, the remarkable part of the story
is not just that they decided to stay, but
the two others who were in safe places,
one in Natchitoches, one in Monroe,
made the choice to come to Shreveport
knowing that they were going to die.
And I'm
sure there were all kinds of people
that were advising them against that.
Do you not understand that you're going
to be putting yourself in the epicenter?
You could lose your life.
You could die. Right.
And actually, we have some beautiful
historical records about that.
The fourth priest to Die, Father Louis,
Chicago, was pastor in Monroe.
He stepped on the stagecoach
to come to Shreveport.
He had in his hand, we think, the telegram
from a father in Shreveport
asking him to please come.
And he stepped on the stagecoach
and someone said to him,
You know, why are you leaving us?
Yellow fever could come here.
We need you here.
And and he responded
to his associate pastor
who was standing with him,
and he said, Write to the bishop
and tell him I go to my death.
It is my duty and I must go.
Wow. Wow.
In Natchitoches, Father
Love as a wet was preparing to leave
to come to Shreveport and a crowd gathered
around him and said, Please don't go in.
Someone hollered out and said,
You are going to your death.
And he said, and I quote, I believe it.
But it is the surest
and shortest path to heaven.
And he and he got on his horse
and came to Shreveport,
and he lived less than ten days. So.
So the story here is is not just
yellow fever and not just Shreveport.
It's sort of a universal human story.
Right.
That when we have
a difficult choice to make, when we're
faced with those difficult choices,
we really can make the choice
to help others.
Well, this this documentary.
So I was looking up the documentary.
Yes. And it's critically acclaimed.
Let me tell you some of the awards.
This thing is won.
So Best feature documentary
at the Southern Cal Film Festival,
Best feature documentary
at the Europe Film Festival,
Gold Award feature documentary
at the Spotlight Documentary Film Awards
and winner of Best feature documentary
at the Christian Film Festival. Yes.
So why does this film have such
universal appeal across
I mean, in Southern Cal documentaries
and in the Christian film documentaries?
Very interesting. Why is it so come Right.
I do think that's an interesting story
there, that you have this unique nexus
that happens between what we would say
it's Christian.
It was Christian,
our religious media and secular media.
And I think it speaks
to the universality of the story
that that we're telling a story
that has broad human appeal.
It just happens to be
five Roman Catholic priests.
How who
how did you I mean, obviously,
you know, this story has been around
for for a while in the process
and things like that.
How did you get approached
to actually get involved with the film
and how did you get kind of get the ball
rolling for something like that?
That's incredible.
Well,
so the research on the book really began
going back to 2016, 2017,
and we knew that there was a story.
My coauthors and I, father
Peter Mangum and William Ryan Smith,
we knew
there was a story that needed to be told.
So we began compiling the research
for the book.
Writing the book.
The book is called Shreveport
Murders of 1873
The Surest Path to Heaven, which is follow
all of us of what's quote right.
And once the book was out there
and we realized
that the canonization
cause was going to proceed,
that they are now in the Vatican's
canonization process to become saints.
So for yeah, I'm sorry.
So for non-Catholics,
what it was is a canonization.
So for non-Catholics, you know,
the canonization process is is a process
by which it can take centuries,
but it's a process by which people,
if they have a live remarkable
or exemplary model, lives.
What we would say
from a Catholic perspective or holy lives,
they there's a process by
which they are formally recognized
in the church and become saints.
The canonization
process leads to sainthood.
So after that happened, the book came out
and there was wide interest in the story.
The U.S.
Foundation actually funded the production
of this feature length documentary.
We had no idea that it was going
to be so critically acclaimed.
Chris Charles Scott, who was a film
producer and director from Las Vegas,
is the one who who adapted our book
to the to the film.
And it was his creative vision.
But but yeah, Shreveport story,
it was all filmed here in Shreveport.
It was exactly well, except what
we had to film in Washington, D.C.,
with the Vatican ambassador
to the United States,
who's been a great, great champion
for this cause.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I'd like to ask you about kind of back
to the process of these five priests
and you kind of what what would propel
this for us to get an answer sometime soon
When it comes to them getting sainthood is
Pope Francis get involved in it.
Talk about how that could help.
You see the pope when you were in
you said you were at the Vatican last week
only from a distance.
Oh, he waved.
Oh, wait, wait.
No, the the process is,
of course, begins locally.
So it begins with the diocese and bishop.
Bishop Francis Malone on December
8th of 2020, actually
declared them to be servants of God,
which is the first step in the process.
So our research continues now to finalize
the Historical Commission report,
which I am chairing,
and once that all of their
biographical information is gathered
together,
it's all assembled into one large report,
and that all goes back to Rome.
And yes, it is Pope Francis.
You will then decide
if they will be venerable,
which is the next phase in the process.
So one of the ways I've heard this put
is that it's it's the local bishop
and then it's the pope.
And then the last two steps,
beatification, blessed
or canonization saint.
Those last two steps require miracles.
So it's the bishop, the pope,
and God, it's I've heard that put
what a process
we need to get a copy of this
film to the pope
and he sends the rate to Pope Francis.
We're going to assess
you go. I would love that
screen Vatican.
Yeah. Watch the film now.
Is there is it possible
is it streaming somewhere?
Right now?
It is not available,
but that should be changing very quickly.
We are hoping to have this out
to the public.
Well, I would say
it's it's pending,
but it is more immediate than that.
I hope to see you. Yeah.
Wow. Okay.
So it's in the process right
now. Yes. There.
I guess they're shopping it to vendors
or trying to get it
on like Netflix or Amazon.
But it is our goal that it would
no one would have to pay to see this.
I mean, this is such a remarkable story
and an inspiring story
for all of us
that I think it is our profound wish
that it be free to anyone
who wants to share the story behind it.
I think that
you don't have
to be
Catholic to understand the selflessness.
And I think that, you know, this is
this is the act itself.
And also the film is something that
any religion, you know, any denomination
members can get behind this and be like,
this is incredible what these guys did.
Right. It is
it is a truly universal story.
I mean, you don't have to be a Christian.
You don't have to be you have to be a
religious person at all, a person of faith
to understand that that there is something
about our human condition,
that when we're faced
with difficult choices,
we know in our heart of hearts
what the right thing is to do.
And I think that's that's universal
to to humanity.
Yeah.
And is that depicted in in the film?
Is it does it have like a narrative,
like a fictional
like it's happening or is it is
it more of a here, here and there?
What we really wanted to focus on was the
the true selflessness
of their of their choices
in every and every single case.
And think of it
like one passing the baton to another,
because that's literally
how the timeline went.
Which is another thing very striking about
it is the timeline with which they died.
But but it's it's a choice
and it's a choice
that not many people would make.
You know, I've asked myself
I mean, I think we all went through this
probably when we were
in the early phases of COVID, right.
When this is when we were writing the book
and actually finishing the work,
putting
putting all the polish on the story.
Yeah, I mean, I think we can relate
to that to some extent.
I was terrified of getting COVID
in the very beginning.
I think many of us,
I think a lot of us were sure.
And, you know, when you're faced with
that choice, do I would I really would.
I really do that?
Would I really make a choice
to put myself in a situation
where I knew I would contract it,
but believing I would die?
That's
that's a remarkable level of commitment.
It certainly is. I tell you what. Wow.
For strangers.
I mean, if they could I mean, I would I,
I took my dad to the hospital
and he had COVID and it was scary.
Nobody,
nobody wanted to get in the car with him,
you know, And nobody wants to get in
the car with him now when he's driving.
But I don't want to get in a car
with them.
And it's my dad. But,
you know, you do it. You do it.
But for strangers, that would
that would definitely be a challenge.
And that is the key.
And Shreveport was overwhelmingly
Jewish and Protestant,
you know, at this Shreveport
was not a Catholic city in 1870.
There was still a lot of Catholic
city. Yeah, less than 6%. But
but this was,
you know, not about race or gender
or your religious identity or age.
It was about being there
for whoever needed that help.
And and they did they were
I think for the Catholics, too.
One thing I noticed when the first thing
I did when I walk into Holy Trinity
Catholic Church, is to see that the murals
in the stained glass honoring these men,
it's it's a very powerful thing.
Yeah.
So this is the stained glass.
That's an interesting story because
there's massive windows that Holy Trinity.
I would I would encourage anybody
to go and see those windows.
Those went in right after World War Two.
So that tells you that from 1873
until 1945, 1946, when those windows went
in, that their is
their memory has not been forgotten there.
Their significant contribution
of their lives had not been forgotten.
But think about all the things that had
happened in between 1873 and 1945, 1946.
Sure.
You know, we went through
reconstruction in the South.
There were two major world
wars and a Great Depression in between
at the beginning of the 20th century.
So it's encouraging for me to see signs
like that pop up that
here we are all these years later
and let's remember them in stained glass.
I think it's a beautiful tribute.
I agree it is, because definitely
a lot of a lot of events
happening to remember that.
So obviously the impact they had on
our community is amazing.
So history has a big impact.
So I know we came mostly
to talk about this, this film,
but you're sought
after in all sorts of disciplines.
I mean, you write books, you're on podcast
all the time, but now you recently,
you're on television, now what is
what is what are these what's these series
of historical, historical television
programs you've been asked to be on?
She's world wide.
So I was actually contacted
to be part of a series
called History's Greatest Mysteries,
which is on the History Channel.
It is hosted by Laurence Fishburne.
You may remember him.
He was Morpheus in The Matrix.
That's what I think
every time I see his movie.
Right.
But so so this is a show
that's actually in its sixth season now
that takes mysteries.
In other words, there is no answer to it.
And they present several different
theories about what the answer is.
And there's always someone who brings
a different perspective and usually,
usually always a scholar who will sort of
keep everyone on right to vote.
So yeah, so so I was called in
to do one on the Knights Templar and,
and which is fascinating.
But then while I was there,
I was also asked about a relic.
They found out
I knew about the Shroud of Turin.
So I did interest out there too.
And then I've been actually called back
to do several more episodes
for the new season.
So it's exciting.
Yeah, we're where can we watch those?
So those stream on the History Channel,
you can actually just go to History
Channel dot com and stream them.
Yeah, that is awesome.
I mean like I say you're the,
you're the expert on the,
on the Shroud of Turin, which is amazing.
You could definitely do
a long story on that.
Would you say that's the most recent most
studied object in the world in the world.
And the expert.
They call you on to the History Channel
to talk about it.
I was going to say
that's another thing that you and a fellow
Wrangham teamed up on.
Not too long ago.
Yes, right.
Father Peter Mangum, who's in Monroe now.
He's at the Church of Jesus,
the Good Shepherd.
But he used to be the rector
of the cathedral here in Shreveport.
And that is he's
also an expert on the shroud.
And so, yeah, we were
we were a mighty force to be contended
with here on the shroud.
One thing that I find fascinating
is, you know, that's what I love about
history is the fact that, you know,
thousands of years have gone by.
We have the most sophisticated levels
of science that history has ever had.
And there are still
so many questions. Yes.
And it really makes I mean,
it makes the mind just boggles the mind.
Yeah, absolutely.
It really does.
The shroud is
I mean, I would describe the shroud.
So what we're talking about
for the for the seven people out there
that haven't heard the truth
is probably more than.
And then I want to go back to history,
the history of Shreveport,
because that's where
we've been definitely written several.
Yeah. No.
So so
the Shroud of Turin we're talking about
is a 14 and a half foot strip of lint,
a cloth that millions of people believe
is a burial linen of Christ.
It's described in all four
gospel accounts, and it bears the image of
of a man who was crucified
and beaten in Roman fashion.
The image itself is so
compelling that we cannot reproduce it
in any laboratory in the world today.
So, yeah, it's it's I said the most
compelling thing in the world.
I think it probably is,
because as you said,
every discipline is studied
every day and no one can disprove it.
No, there were
there are some people
I remember a few years back,
they were saying, oh,
the carbon dating is wrong, right thing.
It's really from the 1300s
or something like that.
Well, it was carbon 14 dated to 1262 1390.
But what has come into question
is the carbon 14 itself.
We've been able to demonstrate
in the last few years
that the sample where they they took that,
where they cut actually the fabric to test
was from an area of the cloth.
It was re woven in the Middle Ages.
So you would expect to get a medieval date
after the big fire.
Yeah.
I mean this thing has been through it
through the fires.
Yeah.
So you know for those the No, no. I mean
how would it,
how would it even survive
being around for 2000 plus years.
I think it speaks to
even if it were medieval women,
the fact that it is survived
in such great shape
tells us a lot
about what people had believed it to be.
Mm hmm.
That it's been that cared for.
And isn't it powerful for you?
Yeah. To see.
I mean, when we have the replica
here in Shreveport.
Yeah,
I had the chance to go and check that out.
And just.
Just seeing it standing there and like,
oh and I mean, I knew it was a replica,
but I, I'm sure,
you know, for you that has to be like
a major driving factor for what you do.
Yeah, well, and I had the opportunity
to see the shroud in Turin last summer
as part of a small group
with an event for the archbishop.
And I can tell you that it's seeing
the real thing is overwhelming.
And and of course, then, you know, after
I got past the emotional sort of aspect
of reacting to something I've studied
so many years, I had sort of the scholars
step in and say, okay, well, there's that
water stain and there's that burn mark.
And, you know, it's like the
the academic mind went to work.
But but that's the thing
that the shroud does, is it pulls us in
from every direction philosophically,
scientifically, historically, religiously.
I mean, it appeals to every aspect of us
that says a lot.
That's pretty cool.
That's awesome. Powerful. Yeah.
Well, so so I want to get back to history.
Yes. I mean,
because we can do a whole episode.
Well,
we do have just a couple of minutes left.
So, yes, we could sit here and talk to you
all about the history of Shreveport.
So here's
what a lot of people would be interested.
You've written books on the haunting. Yes.
Aspect of Shreveport.
Let's go from the Sacred.
Let's hear from Buddy.
Yeah, from.
But yeah.
So as you read that, I think I think that
you your your position on that is not.
Oh yes I believe in ghost as much as okay
so here's a ghost story
now here's the here's the actual history
on how that how that happened.
Is that correct? That's exactly right.
And I think that that the
the popular interest in the paranormal
serves history well because everyone
who lived can be a ghost.
And and it's a great way to to connect
people to history is to to reach
that kind of that popular culture appeal
and then sort of a bait and switch.
So, you know,
when you take them on a haunted tour,
they think that
they're going to see Ghost.
And I tell them history stories.
But so you do haunted tours? I do.
I do haunted and wicked tours
to Wicked Sorcery.
What it was like Wicked Blaze,
What was that?
Oh, wicked tour. Wicked tours.
So, you know, that was another book
on Wicked Shreveport.
And it's stories from the Frontier Town
that, you know,
we're the furthest point west
in the United States.
Until Texas came into the Union in 1845.
We were the we were the frontier.
So we had gunfights in the streets,
bordellos on the riverfront.
I mean, you name it,
this was a wicked place.
And you do tours.
How often do you do these tours?
How does a person
get to one of your tours? Yeah. MM.
I was going to say now
this is fascinating.
It actually
after COVID, it's been a little bit
difficult getting the numbers back up.
And so last
last October is really the first time
we were able to do like
walking tours again with large groups,
cemetery tours primarily.
But I do hope to get back to the
to the bus, the bus rolling haunted tours
this year.
That is so cool.
How do people find out about that?
So there's a actually there's
a Facebook page
called Historic of Shreveport,
which historic haunts of Shreveport.
Shreveport.
It is the that's the title of the 2010
book that I co-wrote with Dr.
Gary Joyner.
People can find that on Facebook.
And we announce tours periodically
and all the funds go
back to these historic sites
that we visit.
We don't we don't keep the money
We we like to give back to historic
preservation.
So tell me just quickly,
like one of the one of the stories
that's a crowd favorite
kind of little summary.
Oh, one of the crowd favorites,
The municipal auditorium makes the list
of every actually every national list
of haunted places in America.
Municipal Auditorium
in Shreveport is in the top five
because of the Louisiana Hayride,
the ghost of Elvis,
the ghost of Hank Williams.
You know, so people love that.
They love the story
and they love the music history, too.
Wow. Yeah.
So this has been
this has been an awesome one.
Fortunately, we got to wrap things up now.
Already out of time.
I know.
I knew I was going to go fast,
but Dr. White, too.
I know folks are watching,
listening to this right now.
Want to get more information on the film?
Where where can they check that out
and kind of follow what you do.
The website is Shreveport Martyrs dot org.
All one word, Shreveport martyrs dot org.
And there's all the information there
about our five priests
and all their biographies,
news, important news articles,
and also a link to the trailer
for the film
and a link to the books as well.
Okay.
And Paul and I
are going to sign up for these tours
as soon as you get rolling again.
All right.
Let me get the word out.
I want to go on one of these tours.
I love it.
And everybody better to listen to.
All right, Dr.
White, well,
thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you.
All right.
And in between all your other TV
appearances.
Yes. Film Fest
come to downtown studio trip to
thank.
Sure.
You check her out very soon on the History
Channel an episode coming up.
Well, another great Good to know podcast
and remember we have new episodes
coming up every other Wednesday
and you can always find these on
where we typically listen to podcasts on.
Doctor White.
Thank you again
so much. And Paul, great show as always.
Thank you. Our pleasure. All right.
We hope that everybody have a happy
and healthy and history filled day.