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Interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders who’ve “made it” in Thailand. Real stories of ambition, setbacks, and strategic wins on the path to success. Built for founders and operators who want to win in Thailand.
Guests from the US, UK, Australia, and Thailand. Honest journeys and cross-cultural lessons. Inspiration for anyone building in the Thai market.
Apply to be a guest:
https://madeitinthailand.com/apply
Hosted by Scott Pressimone, a US expat based in Thailand for 13+ years and owner of Fractiond, a Thailand-based strategy consultancy.
#ThailandBusiness #ExpatSuccess #ThaiExpat
If you're starting a business
here from scratch, your first
hires are very important.
One of the most important things
is finding the right people.
I'd i'd actually go further to argue it is
the most important thing and, those first
hires, I think you'll often find in the
businesses that I meet that set up one or
2, 3, 4 people and then have longevity.
Those one or two, three or
four are often still with the
business 5, 10, 15 years later.
So finding those right people at the
start of the journey is just critical.
Another challenge that I think
of a lot of owners face here
is retaining talent, right?
Do you have any ideas on
how to retain good talent?
All right, Brendan, thank you
so much for joining me today.
Good to have you in our office again.
yes.
So we're actually recording this in
the ASW office, which is in the park.
That's right.
Which is a like really
modern, amazing building.
So how long have you all
been here in the park?
We got the office space the end of 2023.
So we're coming up to two years,
almost two years in the office space.
Yeah.
I joined in April 24, myself there.
So I'm about 18 months in here.
Nice, I absolutely love the area here.
If anyone has a chance to
stop by the office, please do.
but without further ado, I love for
people to get to know you, Brendan.
So would you mind giving a
brief introduction, who you
are, where you're from, what
you do, and then we can jump in?
Certainly.
Brendan Cunningham, originally
from Australia, I was from Sydney,
Tasmania, Queensland, Perth.
I got around before I, I came
here to Thailand in 2000.
I'm currently the regional Business
Development director for ASW Consulting.
ASW Consulting is an executive search
recruitment firm that's part of a
larger company called ASY Global, which
is an international talent partnering
firm offices headquartered down Sydney
offices in Manila, Ho Chi Minh City,
Kuala Lumpur, and of course Bangkok.
Yes.
And we had to make this, time
work for you because I know
you travel quite a bit as well.
I hear you've been coming to and
from Vietnam quite a bit as well.
For the consulting part of the business.
Our teams are based in Bangkok and
Hojimin City, so I'm in and out of both.
I'm, I live in work in Thailand
and I spend half my working time
in Ho Chi Min City and in Bangkok.
Yes.
Yes.
That explains it.
I'm very fortunate.
Yeah, it's a good, it's a good mix there.
so what I'd like to know here first
is you've been here for years, right?
And so I wanna rewind back
to when you first got here.
You took your first trips to Thailand.
What actually drew you over
to Thailand originally?
I was a classic case and there's more
than one of my case of somebody who
arrived here on a short term basis.
I, I came here basically for
a year, in my mind at that
time, in, in beginning of 2000.
and I had plans of going different places.
south America was on my mind.
Europe, of course.
I never got to any of
those, but not yet anyway.
Still time I've been here ever since.
nice.
What do you think?
I think that happens, like you
said to a lot of us, right?
Yeah.
We get here, we expect we'll go somewhere
else, but you, it's hard to not fall
in love with the place a little bit.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So what do you think has actually
held you here for so many years?
it's definitely a, range of things.
I'd have to say the obvious
one first is family.
my wife and kids are, Thai
nationals, so it's my family, but
would naturally be number one.
the second thing is the career.
I've been very fortunate that I've had a,
wonderful career path for that's across
multiple companies that, that has allowed
me to enjoy my work the whole time I've
been here, which is really important.
and then there's also the
things that not only keep people
here, but bring people back.
The food, the culture, the things
It's always interesting and very,
importantly, the people, the people
of this country are wonderful and
it's just a great place to live.
Yeah, absolutely.
how many years has it been
then altogether for you then?
it's interesting.
In, a few months, I guess at the end
of this year, it comes up to 26 and
I, without giving away my age, at the
end of this year, I would've lived
exactly half my life in Thailand
and exactly half in Australia.
Wow.
It's scary to think about, right?
It is.
Yeah.
I've been here for I think maybe 13
or so years, and I'm starting to,
yeah, make the same calculation.
It's okay, the majority of my adulthood
has been so far away from my home
country, which is not 'cause I dislike
my home country, but it's back to the
point of there's something sticky about
Thailand where you just, you know,
and agree.
And just to that point,
I, love being Australian.
Yeah.
I'm a very patriotic.
Australian person.
Yeah.
but my home is Thailand.
Yeah.
it's no longer Australian.
My home is, Thailand.
Yeah.
That's, a great way to put it.
I, think some people run away from
things, whether it be their home country
or just, problems they have there.
But I think plenty of us
love our home countries.
Yes.
And it's not anything against
Australia, the us, anything.
No.
Just found a, part of the world
that has become more homely
than, where we grew up, Yes.
The best way to look at it.
Absolutely.
to get into why I invited you onto
the podcast, so I've known you now
for, probably a couple years, through
your involvement with the Australian
Chamber, through networking events.
I see you at all the time.
You're very active.
We'll touch on that today.
but the reason I really wanted to
speak with you in more depth, Brendan,
is because I think a lot of business
owners or entrepreneurs in Thailand
struggle a lot when building a company.
and of course one of the most
important parts of building a
company is people, building a
team, building an effective team.
And I've heard from more than
one expat here that they're
just unsure if they can do it.
Yeah.
Because, at first, I think during the
honeymoon period, it seems amazing.
And is to think, oh, I can
absolutely start a business here.
There's all these opportunities,
it's gonna be great.
and I think sometimes owners get
past that honeymoon and then they
start having problems with staff.
They start having
problems with their team.
maybe people are bringing
up issues to them.
All these things happen.
And they almost wanna throw their
hands up and say, this is impossible.
This is, just, this is so much different.
And you're not a person that I hear that
from, because I think you've got through
that or you've got to the other side.
and that's why you've been
here for so many years.
So what I'm hoping to do today is
just talk through some of those
lessons that you've learned or, any
wisdom that you can share To help
entrepreneurs get to that other side.
Great.
And find success here.
Great.
I'm open to sharing.
Of course.
Yes.
Awesome.
So let's maybe start in
almost chronological order.
Let's say that there is, an individual
that is starting their business here.
They might have some funding,
they might have maybe a successful
business, outside of Thailand.
And they now want to either start or
expand their operations in Thailand.
And now they're looking for
some of their first Thai hires.
Of course, there are ratios people
need to be aware of when it comes to,
you have to hire a certain number of
Thai nationals in order to sponsor
a work permit, For a foreigner here.
So they might be faced with this idea of
who are my first four core Thai hires?
how do I find the right people?
And maybe we can dig a
little bit deeper into that.
If you're starting a business
here from scratch, that you're
very correct in saying your
first hires are very important.
and you mentioned earlier one
of the most important things
is finding the right people.
I'd actually go further to argue
it is the most important thing.
and those first hires, I think you'll
often find in the businesses that
I make that set up one or 2, 3,
4 people and then have longevity.
Those one or two, three or four
are often still with the business
when, 5, 10, 15 years later.
So finding those right people at the
start of the, journey is just critical.
if they come from one of
the top universities, great.
It, certainly shouldn't be at the, top of
the pile that we need to find that first
batch of people from these universities.
Yo, you really are looking yes, at
the CV qualifications, but I dunno how
to explain this in any other way than
you're looking for the right people.
and it's finding a very critical
match for how that person works
with you, their personality, their
characteristics, their motivation and
drive for being part of your business.
you're essentially looking
for a new best friend.
I would think that those first critical
hires, And how do you go about it?
there's still the traditional
ways of recruiting haven't
changed in the past 50 years.
you post a job ad you collect
cvs, you scan the cvs, you then
go through the interview process,
and you select the right people.
Where it has changed is, where
we used to look in the Saturday
newspaper before the internet.
That obviously doesn't
happen much anymore.
That trans transitions onto job boards.
so job boards on Jobs DB, Seek, et cetera.
but then LinkedIn job boards and
even further into Facebook groups.
so for certain types of people that
you're looking for, you post in
different Facebook groups to find them.
And these days, even people are
going on TikTok and doing little
videos saying, I'm looking for this.
Can anyone give a referral?
So that part has the, process is the
same in that you, you need to advertise,
but the way it's done is different.
interviewing's different.
It was always face to face.
Now, most of the interviews we do now,
initial interviews are, video screening.
Instead of asking someone to come
all the way across town, or you
might even be in another country
when you're doing that initial
interviewing, it's, all online process.
but then particularly for a small
business wanting to set up, you fly
in and you sit down face to face
and you get to know those people.
So yeah, it's, the basics have changed.
The way we do it has
evolved with technology.
Now, one thing I'm curious about, Brendan,
is how the filtration method at the
start of the process obviously changes
how things happen downstream from that.
So I get that this depends on the role,
but I'm just curious, do you tend to err
on the side of filtering a lot of the top?
So for instance, if
you have all these CVs.
Would you say, I've got a stack of 20 cvs,
I'm only gonna start to look at the ones,
like I said, from a certain university.
Or do you tend to be a little bit more
open, at that start of that process and
put a little bit more of the filtration
in that maybe first round interview?
Key word matching is what
most recruitment people do.
in that you post a job description and we
now have AI to actually do that for us.
Yes.
but if I go old school, just
using my own eyes, yeah.
we've got a job description and we
have key words or sentences that
we have already told the market,
this is what we are looking for.
People who can do this, it
will be successful in our role.
And then we look at the cv.
So I would advise anyone who's looking
for a job, read the job description,
tailor your CV to the job description.
'cause that's initially
what we are looking for.
So if we are looking for A, B,
C, and then I'm looking at the
top of a CV and it's got X, Y, Z.
Might even have a, b, C at the bottom.
I might not see it.
You are looking for this type of person?
Look at the jobs I've been doing
and the jobs I've been doing.
Are that are what you're looking for?
Yes.
Okay.
Step one, I'm looking for this.
You do this, I'm going to interview you.
That's, if you receive 500, if a lot of
LinkedIn posts, there are 500 replies.
and you're looking to that very
basic, I'm looking for this.
You do that.
Great.
Yes.
You're through the mix.
The first round of interviews.
Yeah.
So that's a great tip for people.
I think that I do see, I've seen so
many applications for roles I've,
published and hired for, and some
people will not tailor their CV at all.
And I think that's a missed opportunity.
I don't tend to see a lot
of cover letters even.
Yeah.
and so to your point.
We all are busy, and as much as
we want hiring managers to be open
to different hires and open to our
backgrounds, you have to tailor that cv.
Otherwise, the individual, the hiring
manager, the HR department, whatever it
may be, is not gonna see the keywords
and they're gonna filter you out, right?
That's right.
Yes.
So that's very important at the
start, and that gets you in the door.
Then when you get into the first
interview online, you are assessing,
you've told me you can do this.
I'm now going to check
by asking you questions.
Can you do this or not?
Yes.
The way we do the interviews, two ways,
one, you skills assessment, you've
said you could do it, I'm going to ask
you very direct questions about your
experience doing it, and for examples
on how you've done it, just to, to check
if, are you as good as you say you are?
The second part of the interview,
whether it's interviewing for say,
me, for my team, or for the clients in
terms of what they've told us they're
looking for is, more culture fit.
when culture fit, company culture fit.
So the company will say, this is the
type of company we are, this is the
type of person we are looking for that
will be successful in our company.
So we ask the type of questions
that assess, behavioral
characteristics that match what
the company's looking for as well.
Yes.
And if they tick both boxes yet
skills, they're competent culturally
they look a match, that's when
we'd move on to the, next round.
Yes.
Yes.
Whoa there.
Hold up for just one second.
I'm sorry to interrupt, but if you are
struggling with business operations,
cultural challenges, or growing your
business in Thailand, you are not alone.
This market is really tough to navigate.
I know because I've been here
since 2012 and I've experienced
a lot of these challenges myself.
That's why I founded Fractiond, a
Thailand-based consulting firm aimed at
helping businesses succeed in Thailand.
My Accenture experience from the US,
and our community of top consultants
from around the world, allow us
to deliver top tier strategy and
execution to businesses in Thailand.
If you wanna learn more, you can book
a free 15 minute discovery call to
see how we can help your business.
You can email us at podcast@fractiond.io.
Alright, back to the show.
Okay.
I like too that you brought up the
skills assessment, because I've seen
some hiring managers think of that
more as a, Hey, can you do this thing?
And they take people's word at face value,
And then you end up with a big problem.
Yes.
The road.
Oops, you.
You said you knew the CRM or you said,
this software, and then they don't.
No.
So it sounds like if it has those
kind of hard skills or those specific
capabilities, it sounds like you
have some good assessments going on
just to make sure and test it, right?
Yeah.
You just ask basically for examples,
if somebody says they can do
something, tell, me about it.
Yeah.
They just explain to me how you did it.
Even if it's something very
basic, explain to me the process.
Yes.
And, the way people answer,
you can pick up on as well.
people who are highly competent
in it reel off the answer.
It just flows off the tongue.
And if somebody's pausing and ing
anding Surely if you were doing
this every day for three years, it
shouldn't be this hard to answer.
And maybe it is.
somebody who is, I wasn't
ready for the interview.
I have been doing it
competently for three years.
I just wasn't ready for the interview.
That's a failure on your part as well.
Yes.
Prepare for interviews.
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
and tell me if this is something you
do as well, but I sometimes find that
interviewers like yourself, and like
your team is I'm sure very experienced
at this, but you have to go layers deep.
And if someone's not answering
the question at that surface level
and you're not asking, oh, that
wasn't quite specific enough.
Can you, go a little bit deeper?
This, I think if you don't do that,
it's easy to rush through things.
Yes.
And you're not really testing it.
That's Right.
Because with that in mind as
well, that's a good point, Scott.
In terms of going deeper, you're
also, testing for consistency.
So sometimes you'll ask the same
question in a different way and you're
testing for consistency as well.
and then you'll do that.
That's often done across
multiple interviews as well.
So if I interview someone and
someone interviews after me, as a
candidate, you must realize that
we're going to come together and
crosscheck after that and, discuss.
I, this person said this person said this.
And if it's not the same, then
red flags come up as well.
yes.
so it, we're, moving into
a bit of candidate advice.
Be prepared.
Yeah.
be very prepared to go deep
and be very genuine as well.
If you don't know how to do something,
don't say you don't get away with it.
yes.
Oh, I love that, idea of being genuine.
I can just share from a recent example
of someone I hired and I've now been
working with for the last two years or so.
it was for a marketing position, Brendan,
and, I asked this individual a very
specific marketing question and the
fact that he answered it incorrectly,
Was actually totally fine for me.
Because elsewhere in the interview
he proved his, interest and other
areas that I think he could develop.
but just because the answer is no, doesn't
mean you have to BS and, try to pretend.
Yes, you can be a little bit, you can
be honest about it and say, I think
it means this, but I'm not sure.
And, that to me just built
up trust to be honest.
Yes.
Agreed.
Yes.
Yes.
Be honest, be genuine.
'cause that's a very important thing
that every employee is looking for.
Can I trust this person?
Yeah.
we're going to spend, be spending a lot of
time together if we're working together.
Trust is, very important.
And the second any employer picks up on
a, I don't think you are being honest,
then you're not going to go any further.
Yes, Now I am wondering if we can go on
a slight tangent, just because we touched
on a couple piece of candidate advice.
Yeah.
So that's from the employer side.
But I'm not sure if you do how much
recruitment you do for foreigners.
but if we imagine that there's an
experienced foreigner that's maybe
been in leadership positions abroad
and they're now coming to Thailand,
are there any mistakes you see a lot
of these foreigners make when they're
looking to get hired into a position?
or things that they should avoid
or be aware of so they can be
more successful in Thailand?
Any thoughts?
the main piece and I do,
receive contact with a lot of,
people from outside Thailand.
either they've worked here before
based here, but things have changed
or they're, just looking to come in.
my main piece of advice to everyone
is the, need to be patient, because
the, employment market for that's
open to foreign nationals is a lot
smaller than the available, foreign
nationals looking for employ.
so it's never a case of No,
you won't find anything.
It's a case of being very patient,
and be prepared to be persistent.
I, if I haven't replied to anyone, I'll
apologize in advance, but I, really
do try to get back to everyone, and
just say, seen through your profile.
because I'm also honest with
them, if, we're able to help
somebody get a job with one of our
clients, that's how we make money.
Yes.
So, the idea that I could help them
find a job is top of my priority.
My ability to do it is
the part that's limited.
so I always well intend
to always write back.
please send your profile through.
I'll share it with my
team if anyone can help.
if we do talk to a client that has,
is open to, foreign, to expats, great.
I'll go back through my list and
try to find matches, et cetera.
So be.
patient is the first one, and the second
one is when they, do something in my
profile, do this to more than just me.
not everyone will write back.
I will.
And I know a few of the other
people in the industry who
always write back as well.
but even if you don't receive
a reply, just keep sending them
and don't be put off by it.
The only way you can get out there
to, find something is to tell your
story, to put yourself out there.
and that's probably the next thing
is, we'll talk about networking
later, but get out into the market,
go to Chamber of Commerce events,
go to any other type of event.
if you're, your favorite sport
is if you're coming from the UK
and you're a football player, go
join one of the football leagues.
'cause a lot of the business people
you want to eventually work with are
playing in those leagues as well.
Yeah.
so just put yourself out
there, build a network.
Send it out to recruiters like myself
and just get your story out there and
see what, eventually, lands on the hook.
Got it.
So what I'm gathering from that is
that if someone meets you at an event,
they might like you, you might like
them, you might want to help 'em.
But they shouldn't be saying,
ah, Brendan's got this for me.
He's gonna come back to me
with some opportunities.
Because to your point, I mean you,
there's probably not all those
opportunities that they may be
thinking, As well connected as you are.
there's not always this huge number
of clients that are looking for
expat hires and have those openings.
So if they're just crossing their
fingers and just waiting on you,
that's not the way to do it.
They gotta proactive them,
be proactive themselves.
That's right.
yeah.
that's great advice.
Brendan, so now getting a little bit back
into the perspective of the companies that
are operating, here, another challenge
that I think of a lot of owners face here.
Is retaining talent, right?
because you might have a great employee
for a year or so and you're trying to get
past that first stage and you're trying
to get some momentum and then poof.
Now a key hire has left you right.
And maybe they didn't even
give you a lot of notice.
And so I think people get,
they almost wanna throw their
hands up at those stages.
'cause it's oh my gosh, I
invested in this person.
I gave them all these things.
They didn't gimme one
or two months notice.
and that can be very frustrating.
Absolutely.
So I'm just curious, do you have any
ideas on how to retain good talent
or how to avoid those situations
at least as much as possible?
if we look through, I think we'll look
at it from an SME point of view, right?
'cause yeah.
Big companies would have talent management
programs that run deep into the company.
So if you're an SME and you've made
those first few hires and you wouldn't
have an in depth talent management plan.
the key is just to.
Communicate that you're coming
to an SME, here is our career
path, or here is your career path.
And if the answer is there isn't
really a career path at the
moment, then communicate that.
Or if, here's what we're planning
it to be, communicate whatever
you have from the beginning.
check the pulse of that, the employee.
Is that okay with you?
And if that's okay, great,
then we'll move forward.
And then continually
check the pulse of that.
And so not always asking
the same questions.
Do you remember that career
path I told you about?
You're still okay, but
you're always checking in.
How's the job going?
What, what's working for you?
What, do you need from me?
How can I help you?
So just continually check the
policy in multiple different ways.
And then there's the things that they, you
ask a question and they don't say to you.
so body language speaks as much
as, the words we say, right?
So you ask the question,
how's everything going?
Good.
Okay.
That doesn't sound good.
So, rather say that, just
say, okay, how's your work?
Yeah, it's easy.
Okay.
Do you want something more difficult?
Do you want to challenge and, really
try to find ways, but how do I
keep things interesting for you if
that's you might have an employee.
I like having things systematically
laid out in front of me.
And as long as you keep it that
way and you don't change things
for me, I'll be with you for life.
Great.
Then that's what I'll do for you.
And then the next employee sitting next
to that person is, I thrive on learning.
So I've been working here for a year.
I already know how to do my job.
if you don't give me something else
to learn, I'm probably gonna go
look for somewhere else that does.
Okay, how do I make your
job more interesting?
I guess it's essentially looking
at your employees similar to
how you look at your clients.
You, when you go talk to a client,
you check is, everything okay?
Is our service, is the
service we're offering good?
Are you happy with what we are doing?
Can we do anything different for you?
it's 'cause you want to
keep your clients retained.
Clients are much more valuable than
trying to find the new clients.
That's, so it's the same
concept, just constantly
checking in with your top talent.
I don't wanna lose you.
Tell me what I need to do to keep
you is basically not those words,
but always be checking in on that.
So that's one part of the puzzle.
I think,
I love when you mentioned it's very
similar to how you might handle a client,
because one thought that I have when
I've done satisfaction surveys and stuff
like that for some of my clients, we,
look and say, who are the happy clients?
And you may have, NPS surveys or these
other things, but the way I look at it is.
Just because only three of your
clients rated you low doesn't mean
that only three clients think that way.
Yes.
Only so many people will raise their
hand in the positive and only so many
people raise their hand in the negative.
Yes.
So then you have to extrapolate a little
bit and say, some people aren't talking.
Yeah.
And sharing.
And so that just reminded me of that when
you're mentioning that you can't take some
of these responses at face value, because,
tell me if I'm wrong on this, Brendan,
when it comes to comparing typically,
Western culture, individuals in Australia,
America, the uk I, I have assumed that
on average more people raise their hands
in dissatisfaction than they necessarily
do in Southeast Asia or in Thailand.
Yes,
correct.
That's.
And
so you
mentioned reading the individual and not
taking it at face value, digging a little
bit deeper For the people that aren't
saying I'm satisfied or I'm dissatisfied.
That's right.
And, I suppose it's depending
on the size of your team.
Once again, we're looking
at small businesses.
So as your team grows, but you have a
small team, really just take that time
to treat everyone as an individual
and get to know every individual.
knowing those first few hires,
especially are your new best friends
that are likely going to be with
you for a very long time and really
get to know each individual need.
Now, ideally, your business scales,
and then those people might even
become the managers if that's their
intention, that's what they want to be.
Not everyone wants to be a manager.
and then they start, they've
learned from you how to do that,
and they start doing that, and
that's how you scale people wise.
I love when you said not
everyone wants to be a manager.
Yeah.
that's something I just, seen so
often is that people get promoted
into positions they never wanted.
Yes.
Because they were high performers.
And the, you go back to the individual
again, and it's if you know the
individual, And you're asking them
if they want that, as opposed to
saying, you've done such a great job.
I'm promoting you into this
people management position.
Yes.
That they never wanted
No.
And maybe don't have the skillset.
They're, highly confident at
their job, what they're doing.
That doesn't mean if they've never
managed people before, that's a
whole new, very different skill.
Again, whatever this job was.
So do they have that skill?
Do they want that skill?
And if they are interested, the
first thing, it's a different
topic again, but that's when you
need to go into training mode.
Okay.
Before we make you a manager, let's
train you how to be a manager.
Not just throw you in the deep end,
say, you used to work with this group,
now you're the boss of this group.
Good luck.
That's recipe for disaster.
Yes.
And that reminds me of something
else you said earlier too, was when
I asked you this question, you said,
this sounds in a question for SMEs.
And because, as you said, these
training programs and all these
other things, this pipeline, Exist
in these larger companies already.
But SMEs don't necessarily have that.
No.
But one thing I, want to know, 'cause
you've worked with so many companies
here, is that, do you think it's
possible for SMEs to learn from larger
companies in some of these ways?
Yeah.
Such as having training programs?
'cause I think it's easy to
say, I'm a small business.
I can't have some org chart now.
I don't know what I need now.
Or I don't have time to create a
training program or career path.
or, and things like this.
And I'd argue that those
are a little bit of excuses.
Yes.
'cause can't you do a larger, like a
light version Of what larger companies do?
Yes, of course you can.
and simple things like an org chart.
Yes.
You need to have that, even if
there's five people in your company.
we all know where we sit.
do you put it there and then
it's very clear where everyone
sits, and then training.
Yeah.
If you're identifying skills gaps.
Whether it's technical or in this
case, people, if you want to promote
someone to be a manager, then well,
we don't need to promote them to
be a, train them to be a manager.
We'll just tell them what to do.
have some, even if it's just you
as the, boss doing regular coaching
with your potential manager, then
that's constitutes a training course.
Let's, sit down once a week
for whatever time period.
And let's talk through the
skills that are required and the
expectations of us as a company
for you to be a successful manager.
Yes.
So you still need to do it.
It doesn't mean you need to
go out and hire a, big, spend
a lot of money on a company.
If you, are able to, that's
probably a, better option.
But if you're not able to then
just invest your own time in
providing that, that training.
Yes.
I love that.
'cause yeah, there are all these
tools that'll say, oh, we do
semi-annual reviews and we use this
platform like small improvements
and some of these other tools, but
some companies can't afford that.
But I love what you just pointed out,
like of recurring weekly meeting or
quarterly review, whatever it is,
it's something you can manage on a
spreadsheet and on your calendar.
Yes.
Yeah.
But you
can't avoid it.
No.
You, need to do it.
You need to be checking
in, checking the pulse.
You're always checking the pulse
and making sure everything's okay.
Yes.
I love that.
And the other thing that stuck with me
was that I think you've mentioned people
not knowing necessarily their roles are
not being, clear on what the roles are.
I think when you're a growing
company, roles change a lot.
Yes.
And if you're not revisiting the
roles, then I, think there that can
cause a lot of tension, Brendan.
Yeah.
Because I like, I think when no one
quite knows who's responsible for
something, because maybe it's a new
thing that came up that didn't exist
before, then everyone thinks they're
doing a favor for someone else.
And they might feel inside,
why do I have to do this?
Why do I have to help this other person?
It's because no one's been defined as
being the owner of that responsibility.
And so if you're not revisiting it,
you probably are gonna have a little
bit of tension in your organization.
Yes.
and of good.
My responsibility.
One, one of our core values is
accountability, which I'm a big fan of.
And a good way to share that among the
organization is rather than 'cause small
business things are always changing.
and if we go back to the big change
in the world a few years ago, and that
meant that things are just changing.
Anyway, two words came out
of, the, COVID epidemic.
The, you needed to be agile.
Yeah, and you need to pivot.
I think I heard those two a thousand
times during those couple of years.
Or we were agile and we pivoted.
but we don't need, we don't
stop doing that, right?
So you're looking at the market and if
things are well, then you keep on track.
And if things aren't looking well,
you can see down the track that
you're going to hit an obstacle.
You need to be agile and pivot
that, that hasn't changed.
you need, you do need to be
revisiting things all the time.
And back to the accountability,
what I think is a good way to do it,
particularly with a small business,
often the small business will look
up and think, you are the boss.
everything and, you
just tell us what to do.
So if you can very early in the
piece establish, I'm the boss because
I take ultimate responsibility,
but I don't know everything.
And I would really, I've hired
you and I would really appreciate
you guys helping me with.
'cause I don't know everything.
So when we do need to revisit
things, rather than say, okay, we are
changing and I'm going to make you
do this and I'm changing everything.
It's all, what do you guys think?
So you are actually doing the job.
Yeah.
Tell me what, you're doing.
Tell me how you can build better.
Tell me what you need.
Tell me, do we need to change it?
And just constantly ask.
And then if your people are giving
you the ideas, good, let's do that.
Now you're accountable for that.
'cause you told me that's
what we should be doing.
Yeah.
Accountability.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Comes with it.
Yeah.
That's how I've still got your back.
Yeah.
So I've agreed to it.
I'm accountable as well.
So we're both accountable.
You're accountable for making it happen.
But I'm, as a boss, I'm at essentially
the main accountability, but I don't
know everything, so I need you to
help me with what we should be doing.
I love that.
That does tie into the next topic around.
Office culture.
And I, just wanna double down on what you
just said about that openness and, those
dialogues you have with team members Yeah.
About sharing ideas Or about
pushing back on things Yeah.
Or whatever.
Because one thing I often see too,
that foreigners do when they're
here is that they might have a
forceful thought on something.
And they'll say, we should
do this, and this is why.
And what do you guys think?
this is a good idea.
and then in Thailand especially,
you're gonna get, oh, yeah,
And then that individual might
be thinking, I already asked
the team, and they supported it.
Not realizing that it's really
hard in this, it's not common
in this culture, let's say.
Yeah.
To take something that's moving
a momentum in some way where
the boss, as you just said Yeah.
Saying something, it's hard to push back.
Yeah.
If you didn't develop that culture
in the company of that openness and
willingness to listen and to your team.
Yeah.
It's hard to do here.
but I want to tie that to like
what you have found and how
you've developed a good culture.
Because, teeing this up a little
bit too, Brendan, is that I visited
a lot of office in Bangkok and when
I visit, you can pretty immediately
tell an office culture Yeah.
And tell whether or not it's the
big, Kun, Brendan said this, and
everyone else is just following.
Yeah.
Or it's individuals that are making
decisions that are all involved.
And when I come into this office,
I have come a couple times
and your team is very open.
They're helping, they're not looking
to you to do everything, and they're
not shying away from approaching me
and bringing me in and stuff like this.
So you've obviously developed
this culture where people are
sharing People are contributing,
they are showing up with ideas.
So do you have any tips
for how you've done that?
Any, values that you stick
with your office culture or
any recommendations you'd have?
Yeah, I think something
I eventually learned, I.
Many people slide into a habit of saying
things like tide, people are like this.
Yeah.
And you hear it all the time
from foreigners working here.
Tide people for me as well.
I'll, be honest.
Yeah.
We've all done it.
Yeah.
But if anyone says they've never done
it, I would question their honesty.
Thai people are like this, and you
essentially put Thai people in a box
that they're, they are all like this.
And what you're forgetting is that
Thai, Australian, American, where
we're from, we're all individuals.
Yes.
Is what we are.
So there are a lot of cultural, facts here
that, that influence the way people are.
the background of the monarchy, the
quite heavy presence of religion.
the way just the.
The economics of the country over
so many years, the development of
the middle class over the last 20
or 30 years, which has now come, but
wasn't there for before, et cetera.
So many things influence
what, the culture is.
but the end of the day, the people,
are individuals like in any other
country, and that's putting people in
a box sort of tied people like this,
I think is a, mistake people make.
I'll quickly tell you a
story about this actually.
When my cousin, part of my transition and
thinking my change was, my cousin came
here quite a few years ago, but he was
walking around down seam in the middle of
the city and he's first time in Thailand.
He's looking around, he said to
me, so tell me about the people.
What, do they do?
What do you mean?
so just what do they do?
What, happens on a regular
basis in this country?
I said, they, Monday
morning, get up, go to work.
Go home.
They work in an office, a
lot of them, not everyone.
There's different parts of the country.
And then they go home after work.
they do that usually Monday to Friday.
They might go to the gym or to
play badminton, go out to their
friends after work during the week.
And then on weekends it's
a lot of family time.
It's going to the cinema,
it's going bowling.
And you look at, oh, the same
as what we do in Australia.
Yeah, pretty much.
So the, we work at an
office or wherever you work.
Yeah.
People across the world, who
work are very much the same.
They're very, cult cultures
are very different.
But our coming to work, making money,
et cetera, is very much the same.
So I think when we walk into an
office and say, tide people are like
this, you're forgetting that Tide.
People are the same as Australian,
American, everyone else.
In terms of the way, there are
a lot of cultural differences.
But the need to show up for work,
to perform well at work, to do
well, to enjoy their job, to
have fun with their colleagues.
I think that's global.
And so if you go in with that mindset
that's my work environment, not
that, things type people are shy.
They don't like to speak up,
they don't then box that.
Put it away.
Yeah.
And just go in with the mentality
that this is a global environment
and it's the way you behave that
influences the way they behave.
That's such a great point.
I can also tell you to your point,
whether it be owners here in Thailand
or owners I work with, outside of
Thailand, it is amazing how much
the owner reflects on the company.
And I think some owners can be, take
more of a victim mentality of, my
team doesn't do this, doesn't do that.
But if they have that victim mentality, I
think that permeates through the company.
If
they have the ownership mentality
that permeates through the company.
Yes.
so to, to me, it always does
start a little bit at the top.
Yes.
Yes.
And we had to take accountability for our
own challenges or our team's challenges.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that definitely ties into culture.
Now.
Now, one thing, I'm not
pushing back on what you said.
Absolutely.
I a hundred percent agree
about the individual.
But one thing that I think might
cause some of us to say things
like Thai people is because
to,
when I talk to my wife, my neighbors,
all these other individuals in my
life, in Thailand, the way the language
is formed, it's not individualistic.
If I ask my wife about something,
she'll say, oh, Thai people do this.
She says ti she says it.
Yeah.
Because it's back to
I talk, people say a lot actually.
As Thai people, let me explain this.
We do this, but I think I really
like what you're saying because as
much as everyone is often phrasing
their responses or opinions on that,
They will all say
slightly different things.
Yes.
So for instance, this type person
will say, as Thai people, we
don't like X, Y, Z politician.
Yes.
But then guess what this other Thai
person will say as Thai people,
we, do like that politician.
Yeah.
And so it's still an individual.
Yes, and you're right.
So we're both buried to Thai
nationals and different people.
Yeah, Exactly.
They, yeah, we did have the conversation
all the time where Hai people are
like, this, Thai people are like that.
it's, I use it a good example of
it's a, an excuse or a cop out.
Yeah.
I can explain to my wife why I go and
watch a football game and drink maybe too
many more beers than I should have done.
Yeah, come home.
It's just the way Australians are.
Not every Australian's
doing what I'm doing.
I just use that as that
stereotype of Australians watch
football, eat pie, drink beers.
I'm an Australian, that's
why I'm doing that.
But no, I'm, yes, I'm an Australian,
but I like doing it and I use it.
I'm Australian as an
excuse for why I do it.
I say the same thing when I get
impatient in traffic or in a long line.
I say, oh, Americans, us Americans
get really impatient when
things are inefficient, right?
Yeah.
But, I'll admit, after being here for so
many years, when my parents visit or other
individuals visit, I start to realize, oh
my gosh, I've actually really adapted to,
I'm a bit more patient these days, right?
Yes.
and in any case, we, still have
our, Australian roots or American
roots or whatever, but, after
a while you find a balance.
It's, in, I think it's an old
saying that it's a, lot easier
to make excuses than to change.
So that's what we do.
And Thai people are like this,
whether foreigners or Thai say it,
it's just a lot easier to say than
the alternative of trying to find
a way to improve the situation of
make changes in yourself, et cetera.
Yes.
speaking of generalizations, in
terms of culture, there's also
generalizations in terms of, the
different generations of individuals.
And so if you bear with me, I, am
curious if there are any general
patterns that you see, as companies
are continuing to grow and expand.
They're getting a new demographic
of individuals in their companies.
The younger individuals that are
internet native, for instance,
are coming into the workforce.
And in the field that you're in, I'm
sure that you're, seeing a bit of that.
Yeah.
And I'm curious.
What you've seen change in terms
of the types of candidates you
speak with, the younger generation,
maybe specifically in, in Thailand.
What have you seen?
What's, shifting?
gen Z it goes without saying
very different to Gen Y and
extremely different to Gen X. Yeah.
and similar, I find it similar
to the cultural conversation.
They've, grown up in a world
that they're looking at the
world through different eyes.
If, you grow up in, anywhere in
Thailand, but let's say the country
areas of Thailand compared to
Australia, you're, looking at the
world through very different eyes.
Gen Z are looking at the world through
eyes that have never known anything
but the internet, mobile phones,
and just technology in general.
So they're, growing up in a world
that they only know that whereas,
Older generations have grown up in a
different world that, that have seen
different things prior to the internet.
I think obviously the internet was
such a significant change in our life
and our AI is further making that
change that we can identify that as the
changing point for the, generations.
and so with that in mind, they,
are a different type of person, a
different type of employee, different
expectations, but also bringing
different things to the workplace.
They, have different ideas, they have
a different way of looking at things.
it's, I find it to be quite exciting,
similar to when we talk about culture and
you put things in boxes and say culture.
People from this country are like this.
I've seen a lot of rhetoric where people
say, gen Z are like this, and here's
how you manage Gen Z and you need to.
And similar to culture,
don't put 'em in a box.
they're, all different types of people.
You need to ask them what they want.
You need to ask them for the
direction, what they're looking
for, and also understand them.
We, we often look back and say,
in my day, it used to be like
this, that we used to do this.
And
if the generation that's come through
their parents have made a very strong
effort to make sure they always had
a mobile phone to make sure that they
had computer access and make sure that
they've had this wonderful, comfortable
life, and then we look back and say,
oh, in my day it was much harder.
So we're basically punishing them for the
fact that we gave the wonderful battle.
Yeah.
So I think we just need to understand
that times are different and
they're looking through different
lenses and how do we utilize that?
Different way to look on the
world compared to what, we had.
Just to segue away from that a little bit
as well, the importance of tapping in.
And I like to think I do quite a
lot, I have a lot more senior people
than me, say that have even reached
retirement age that I've been very
fortunate to meet mainly through the
Chamber of Commerce and just catchups
with them, to tap into their wealth of
knowledge and different things that are
happening and perspectives on things.
So each of us at different generations
are looking at the world through a
different lens and make the most of
that as opposed to challenging it.
I love that.
And I'm just thinking again, it,
it is so easy to say, oh, gen Z
is this way, and I'm a millennial.
And of course plenty of people will
say, oh, when millennials enter the
workforce, they expect this and that.
Yeah.
And never, right?
And yeah, everyone's an individual.
Everyone's different.
So point taken on that.
but then also I think there's the.
They're not good.
They don't show up one time.
They don't understand what they have.
They're too spoiled, right?
These are all things that even if
some of them are somewhat true or
have variations of truth to them,
it's that what is that helping?
Yeah.
And, instead saying,
okay, how can you leverage
Their differences?
And what I'm hearing from you is to
actually listen to the generations
Whether it be the older generations
or the younger generations,
rather than just rebuffing them.
Yes.
And that even ties into, you had
mentioned networking, which we're
gonna talk about a bit as well, but,
there's, you mentioned Aus Champ, right?
The Australian Chamber, and I
know one of the kind of groups or
subcommittees to that is Next Gen.
Yes.
Yes.
You wanna explain what that
is so people that don't know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's the development of the
next generation as the, name.
It says, Aus Jam's very famous for
sundowners as a networking event, and
Sun Dams can be a little daunting.
If you're walking in there for the
first time, in fact, I remember walking
in there a long time ago, but walking
in for the first time, it's daunting.
There's over 300 people in the room.
If you don't know anybody,
it's, who do I talk to?
Where do I go?
What do I do?
How do I break in to a conversation?
It can be very daunting to walk into.
Now, if you are somebody who's less
experienced, not only in networking, but
in the workplace in general, that sort
of daunting factor goes even further up.
So creating a, the sub community
subcommittee, but sub community where
it's open to everyone to attend,
it's, not limited to an age bracket.
It's not a young professional
group where you're people under
this age, but it's specifying that
this is for a group of people who
are on their way to the next step.
Of management, of building, starting
their own business, of whatever their
intentions are for the next step.
So it can be viewed as a different
community to walking into sometimes
a bigger community where suits and
gray hair and things like that.
And then the, suits or gray hair still
come to the, extent of it as well.
'cause everyone loves to, I've, I'm
gonna say never, but if that's not
true, rarely met a senior business
community leader, not only Austria,
but across the whole community.
who isn't willing to help the
next generation come along.
if they're asked for
help, can I have time?
Can I sit down with you and
can I ask you some questions?
Very few of 'em.
Will, say no.
Say, yeah, what do you wanna know?
Happy to help you.
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
And when you were mentioning the
sundowners, I definitely recommend
individuals take a look at the
Australian Chamber events, look at
membership and consider attending
a sundowners is one option.
To your point, it can be daunting.
I will say that people tend to love it
because of the people in the community.
People are very friendly despite
there being a lot of people.
but there's also good food and
good drinks at those events.
And what I will say is, as you
mentioned, NextGen and some of the
other events might be a bit smaller.
Luckily, Australian Chamber still has good
food and good drinks at those events too.
Just, fewer people.
So you can take that then a step that,
that's a signature of Australia
Chamber commerce events.
It's great food, great drinks, and,
great people PE people are very, even
if it is, it, it, looks daunting.
But while we're on the topic, if, you're
going into any event for the first
time, you happen to be by yourself,
just try to find even someone on.
Line of me, for example, and
say, are you going to this event?
And I, want to know at least one
person and then I'll take you in.
I'll introduce you.
As soon as you meet a couple
of people, you're, away.
That's Yes.
Yes.
I love that.
What a great recommendation.
And I will say too, yeah, we've
talked about this a bit, but,
it's not a stuffy group, right?
It's not a stuffy group setting.
Yes.
in the, sundowners events, you're
gonna have more suit and ties and some
more older experienced individuals.
But I've never felt that attitude
of who are you to be talking to me?
No.
everyone's very like this.
If you make the eye contact and
you approach a group shaking
their hands, how are you?
What's your name?
Yeah.
There's always a conversation to be had.
Yes.
Yes.
And that brings us to the topic a
little bit deeper on networking.
We talked about also, of course, there's
Australian Chamber, but Brendan, I
see you like, not only have you held.
Incredible and prominent
positions with Australian Chamber.
But you sent seem to
go to a ton of events.
And, you're a high level individual.
You I'm sure are very
busy with your workday.
But you still attend at, attend, speak at,
go to all these events in, Bangkok, right?
And I think it's an easy to
have the excuse of I'm an owner,
I'm busy, I can't do that.
They send their staff and
they don't go themselves.
Yes.
And I'm curious how you are able to make
the time, but then also why you make the
time To be involved in these communities.
I, consider what, is now my
network as one of, if not the
most valuable asset that I have.
it's extremely value to me,
valuable to me for multiple reasons.
I'll start with the ROI.
So first I mentioned First start going
to network, and I'm gonna say it was 15
years ago going into the first Oge event.
And I was working, but just
started in recruitment and.
When I first started going, I was going
regularly to a gym events and then
coming back into the office and the
company I was working for at the time,
the boss said to me, I'm not sure are
you, are you just going to these events
to have a few drinks in a good time?
I said, I am having a few drinks
in a good time, but no, I'm
not just going for that reason.
Any sort of unsure if we fair enough,
I'll prove to you why I'm going.
So I just set up a very simple
spreadsheet, with a list of the contacts.
Not every contact, but contacts
that I'll make I was making
and then eventual invoices.
So recruitment and kind of business
that you can get a financial ROI
eventually don't walk into one
networking event and come back
thinking, okay, money's rolling in.
It takes time to build.
but over the course of a year,
I then presented when it was
time to renew the membership.
I then presented the.
this ROI sheet, okay, here's how
much it costs for us to be a member,
plus for me to attend these events.
Here's the direct result of the
invoices that we were able to make
because of the contacts I made.
And it's, as a rule, minimum
10 times the investment.
for a business like the
business that I'm in.
It doesn't apply to everyone.
Not, everyone is making financial
gains from being an o or any chamber
member or going to networking events,
but in my case, that did apply.
So then the next one, which I
find very highly valuable is
the knowledge that you gain.
I, can't remember going to any event
where I don't go home and I usually
will say to my wife, I'll get home and
she'll ask me about the event and say,
I learned this and did you know this?
Or somebody told me this, and that.
You people tell you things that.
You wouldn't have known if you didn't go
to that event, whether it's a market lead.
Do you know that this
company's coming into Thailand?
No, I did not know that.
Yeah.
Do you know that this person's
moving from here to here?
Do you know that this has happened?
PE people are happy to tell you things.
Says people are happy to share
information, particularly if it's
something they think not many people know.
I'm, this is my thing tonight.
I'm gonna tell everyone
this, everyone gossip ups a bit, right?
So,
the market knowledge you can gain and
then the different people are there.
If you want to know what's
happening in real estate, say
things like the, it's a bit touchy.
The casino project or the F1,
proposal that's happening there.
There's often people in the
room who will have some insider
knowledge if you're interested.
but about multiple topics.
So the things you learn if you
are open to talk with everyone and
not walk, here's my business card.
Here's what I do, here's
what I can sell to you.
I, never do that.
I walk up, hi.
If you hear the accent, have an
American, oh, you're from Oh States.
Great.
What part of the states are you from?
And you get into that
conversation, what brings you here?
You start talking about sport.
If people are into sport,
talk about gold if they know.
Yeah.
Go.
so you just find conversations.
You, build a relationship and
you, basically make friends.
Yes.
and if that person who becomes
your new friend one day happens to,
Hey, I actually need your service.
That's great.
I'm here for you.
Yes.
But otherwise, it's just really building a
network where you can learn a lot from it.
And then even referrals.
That person who's now your new friend
is talking to somebody else in the room.
Do you know anyone who does this service?
I do, actually.
I could, I'll introduce you
to this person right there.
Ah, so then the final thing is, yeah.
Just that, Friend network
that, you get from it.
I love that I walk into not only
events, but other chamber events,
other different grand opening things
or sometimes, on the sky train.
Yeah.
I bumped into someone I know quite
well on the Sky train this morning.
I got off the train.
Hey mate.
Ai.
Yeah.
We stopped and had a real good chat.
So I, like having that network,
that access to really good people.
I love it.
I, think you touched on so many of
the points that I've really always,
some of the points I try to make
to, to individuals that come here.
Because when they say that they're
looking for that immediate ROI,
they say, I attended that event.
I got a couple cards.
I didn't turn it into any business.
I can't really see the benefit.
And you compare those individuals
that do that, or like I said,
send their team off, who then.
Say, oh, I work for a
self storage company.
This is what I do.
Yes.
That's not the way to lead a conversation.
Yeah.
And it seems like it's
a couple layers removed.
Yes.
Whether it's a later conversation
where you eventually maybe do talk a
little bit about work down the line
Whether you join a subcommittee and
you start talking to people there and
getting to know them more in their
services more because you're interested.
Yes.
or it's someone that they know and they
trust you, and then they introduce you
to someone that could be a good, Yes.
So it's just, it just seems to your
point, I know that you were able to
make the case for why it's worth it To
go to events from an ROI perspective.
But it's a matter of,
it's not that direct.
No.
And not every, and not
everyone can do it either.
Yeah.
So if you are only looking for
the ROI, it may not ever be there.
I have been fortunate enough
that it has existed for me.
Yeah.
But if that's all you're looking for,
you're missing out on those other really
important aspects that the, knowledge
part that, the things that, that I
learned through those conversations.
I, just find that invaluable and like
I said, the friendship part as well.
And you never know when you need, people
might be in one company and you're not,
sounds like you, you might be using them,
but you know them through that company and
there's no way you're ever doing business.
And if you take the attitude,
I've met that person, but they're
never gonna do business with me.
So where's the value?
Then you lose, even we're friends
for five years, great mates
sometimes play golf together.
That person, Hey, I've got a new job.
I need your business help today.
Yes.
Oh, okay, great.
Yes.
You just never know.
Yeah,
absolutely.
And this under, like, when you
were talking about your staff
and individuals that you recruit
and things like this, it's that
understanding them as a person, right?
are they married?
Do they have kids?
are there kids trying to find
a school to go to, right?
Like it's that give first
and learn from them, right?
Yes.
That's just so important.
So if anyone wants to chat with me
at an event, just know that Yeah.
Gold is an important one.
Yes, I'm a Bitcoin guy for sure.
So please understand that.
If you want to know anything
about that and you wanna get me
going, talk to me about Bitcoin.
Yes.
but, but, the point is, it's the stuff
that people are passionate about, right?
If you're talking with them about
things that they're interested in and
passionate about, that's not always work.
No.
And then maybe it loops
back around to work.
Yes.
You'd remember when we caught up
not wanting go having a coffee.
I was very interested in the gold topic.
Yes, For me, it's more gold
interest than the Bitcoin side.
So I was asking you about the gold and
about the prices and the, market, yeah.
Yeah.
And it's something that I hear not
only for personal interest, but
you hear others talking about the,
where they should be investing Yes.
Or not If I don't know much about a
topic, you can obviously jump online and
learn a lot, but I really prefer to just
ask somebody who, I think knows Yeah.
And get their opinion.
Then you're able to, combine it.
I've, read this, but then I've asked
these people about it and yeah.
Once again, events, are just the
best place to meet those people.
Great, point.
we've run through a lot.
What I am wondering if you can do for me,
Brendan, is this was, this is a, been a
long conversation, but if you had just
one or two minutes or a few sentences to
explain, and I get this is a hard thing to
do, but how to be successful or some kind
of general rules of how to find success
in Thailand from the business perspective
Or from the team building perspective.
If you could just run through what
is your general playbook or blueprint
summary of the things that an individual
can do to be more successful here?
I think I'll, focus just
on the, hire real part.
Yeah.
'cause it, the broader picture,
can be, very difficult to nail down
to, in terms of hiring your team.
just be, to go through the
processes as we've discussed.
another referrals are another big part.
If, you come in and you ask people,
do you know anyone who does this?
That's, also a good way to find people.
But hire, The, old, the concept
of right people, right seats.
Just, really, as you're going through that
process, sometimes we have a, tendency
to hire someone because we need them now.
And you, try to convince yourself in
your mind that, okay, maybe not the right
person, but I, it's the person I need now.
and maybe that's is your,
business need at the time.
I can't afford to wait
for the right person.
I'll take the person
who's maybe 75% right.
But if you're in a position.
To really wait and find that
right person, then particularly
those early hires, then do that.
so right people, right seats.
And then once you start getting
those people in because you're very
new, be very genuine with them, you
expect them to be genuine with you.
So be genuine with them,
with that knowledge.
I really need your help guys.
I know you're coming in thinking I'm
an oracle that's built this business.
I'm going to be very real with you.
I'm hiring you because I need your help.
so let's do this together.
and then the communication part.
Here's what's in front of us.
Here's what, we're building, here's
what obstacles we've just hit
before you hear it from someone
else I'm going to tell you.
So really communicate and
be honest along the way.
and then the care factor you
were saying to yourself about
really just asking questions.
I think getting to know and making
sure that it is, people say we are
building a family, we're like a family.
Whether you want to look at your
office like a family or not is
probably an individual thing as well.
But, you spend so much time together,
make sure that it does have that
strong care factor to it as well.
And probably the last thing, which I
don't think I've mentioned along the
way, but and I'm going to say Thai people
are like this, but it's quite true.
fun.
the ook part of Thailand I
think is one of the things that,
that keeps us here as well.
It is a good, fun place to be and a
good that the people overall, while
I am generalizing and stereotyping
it is people have good hearts
and it's a good, fun place to be.
So while there are gonna be stresses
from work and business, just step
back and remember to enjoy life a bit.
'cause we're not here for long.
What a, great note to end that topic on.
just because I was just thinking as
you were saying this, I, again, have
a couple of young children and my
wife has so much fun with our kids.
And I like, I'm a little
bit more of a serious dad.
I'm not like a disciplinarian or anything,
but my point is that she's just tickling
them and doing all these things with them.
They're six and eight years old.
And they're just having fun,
like a group of kids all the time
because sometimes I'll the call
the, hi, these are my three kids.
Yeah.
Or four kids.
and, so I, I think that play flow
and I, need to remind myself of that.
So I appreciate that lesson is learn
to have a bit of fun while you're here.
Business matters.
But if you have a good workplace
where people can trust each other
and you can have fun with one
another You're probably gonna be
able to work even better together.
Yeah.
absolutely.
Great point.
Now what's, to close this out
a little bit, Brendan, what's
one thing about Thailand?
And this can be personal, this
can be professional, anything.
But what's one thing that you
wish you had known sooner?
I think I'll go back to the, I just
actually did it myself, the stereotyping.
But the, saying type people are
like this, or even considering
yourself, knowing a lot about Tide.
So Thailand's like this, Thai
people do this and stepping away
from that mold and just, I'm an
individual, they're individuals.
This is a company and it's not
Thailand, Australia or it's,
we're all just individuals.
Let's treat each other like individuals.
And taking away that, part of the,
thought process, that's, it's still there.
You need to be mindful of it in
things like that, that happen with,
monarchy, religion, et cetera.
You need to be extremely mindful.
Of how you communicate, how you
deal with those type of topics.
but in terms of the workplace, just
treat everyone like an individual,
I think is the best we've seen.
I, wish I had really been
in touch with, years before.
I, I did get in touch with it.
Yeah.
Great.
Great tip.
Now you've been incredibly
generous with your time.
I'm wondering though, Brendan, is there
anything that we didn't touch on or
talk about today that you wish we had?
I think we could talk for forever.
Really.
There is so much, in
terms of hiring people.
In terms of developing people.
I, could talk about people,
recruitment training and
development, talent development.
I, could talk about it forever.
I think we, how about another
podcast down the track?
That, goes part
two.
Totally fair.
Let's tease that.
so we'll have a part two down
the road as well, Brendan.
Now with that said, let's say that someone
does want to pick your brain a bit.
Learn from you.
Yeah.
what is the best way they can get
in touch with you, or get in touch
with the company, if they are in need
of services and they're looking to,
again, expand their team in Thailand.
Great.
let's start.
The company website is
consulting.aswhiteglobal.com.
It's quite a long web long
website, so hoping you can put
it on the screen at, the bottom.
email is that same web domain.
It's just my name,
brendan@consulting.aswhiteglobal.com.
LinkedIn to great way to contact me.
the nature of what I do.
I'm on LinkedIn every day, so
send me a, message request.
Put a little hello in
there if you like as well.
and I will connect with you and we can
chat, start chat on LinkedIn first, or.
We've talked about the networking
and most Aus Jam events, if I'm
in Thailand, you can find me here.
I'm from in Vietnam.
You can find me at the
AustCham events here as well.
So we go along to a networking event.
Is Brendan here and hopefully someone
does know me and they'll introduce you.
Awesome.
thank you so much again
for your time, Brendan.
Really appreciate it.
It's always a pleasure talking
to you and like you said, we'll
probably do it again soon.
Great.
So then thank you for
coming into the office.
Thanks for inviting me to be on.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, of course.
Thanks.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the chat.
Cheers.
Cheers.