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In this episode, Pastor Wayne Walker, CEO of OurCalling, interviews Marsha and Tim about the transformative impact of the Dallas 24 Hour Club. Initially a consulting role that eventually led Marsha to step up as CEO, she discusses the operational challenges and improvements, including the significant facility upgrade in 2018 that bolstered program execution. Tim elucidates on the club’s role as a transitional sober living environment that not only provides a residence but also integrates extensive community services and support for long-term sobriety and stability. The episode also highlights the strategic frameworks of phased recovery, work readiness, and long-term housing that collectively contribute to reducing relapse and homelessness among recovering addicts.
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- **Marsha's Background and Introduction to the 24 Hour Club** (00:54-02:09): Marsha, who has personally faced addiction within her family, discusses her initial engagement with the Dallas 24 Hour Club through her nonprofit consulting work, highlighting her role in operational stabilization and facility improvement.
- **Transition to Leadership and Facility Challenges** (02:45-03:20): Marsha explains her progression from consultant to CEO at the Dallas 24 Hour Club, facing early challenges until the opening of a new facility in 2018 that helped improve the execution of their programs.
- **Explanation of the 24 Hour Club** (04:23-04:52): Tim describes the club as a transitional, sober living environment for homeless addicts, emphasizing the community aspect and public access which includes various support services and programs aimed at long-term sobriety and stability.
- **Unique Aspects and Community Involvement** (05:16-06:09): The club hosts 39 weekly 12-step meetings accessible to the public, providing a crucial community service and support network for both residents and non-residents seeking help.
- **Marsha's Role Post-Retirement** (03:23-04:06): Post-retirement, Marsha continues to contribute as a consultant focusing on fundraising and board relations, highlighting the importance of her expertise in maintaining and expanding community relationships.
- **Residential Process and Criteria** (16:54-17:26): Residents must meet specific criteria including substance abuse issues and a background check clear of severe crimes. The club provides extensive support including accommodation, food, clothes, and healthcare primarily through donations and partnerships.
- **Phased Recovery Program** (18:25-19:49): The club's recovery program is structured in phases that offer increasing freedom and responsibility, including mandatory meetings, chores, and external mentorship to guide residents through recovery.
- **Work Readiness and Employment Support** (22:17-23:39): Partnerships with educational institutions and local businesses facilitate vocational training and employment opportunities, focusing on sustainable recovery through financial independence and skill development.
- **Impact Measurement and Program Evaluation** (26:26-28:05): Systematic data collection initiated in recent years has informed program adjustments leading to significantly decreased recidivism rates, underscoring the importance of continuous improvement and adaptation of services.
- **Long-term Housing and Life Skills Development** (30:30-31:20): By offering extended sober living options and practical life skills training, the club aims to ensure that residents are prepared for independent living, reducing the risk of relapse into homelessness or addiction.
- **Community and Safety Emphasis** (33:15-35:40): The emphasis on building a strong, supportive community within a secure environment helps residents transition from survival mode to a more stable and cooperative living situation.
- **Faith and Spiritual Growth** (36:24-37:54): While non-religious, the club encourages spiritual growth and finding a higher power as crucial components of recovery, supporting residents in exploring and developing their spiritual beliefs as part of the healing process.
Creators & Guests
Host
Wayne Walker
CEO and Pastor Wayne Walker serves as the CEO and Pastor to the homeless at OurCalling. In 2001, Wayne, along with his wife Carolyn, started serving the homeless community in Dallas. They founded OurCalling in 2009. During his youth, Wayne’s family actively pursued the scriptural commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself” by modeling the life of Jesus to scores of foster children whose own origins represented generations of human brokenness, dysfunction, sexual exploitation, and abuse. Early exposure to these destructive forces set him on a path to recognize the long-term effects of trauma, which often lead to homelessness. While completing his Master’s Degree in Cross-Cultural Ministry from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wayne befriended and ministered to men and women in the homeless community. During that time he began to establish personal, discipleship-oriented relationships with homeless individuals, many in the same urban setting where he and his family continue to work today.
What is OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness?
A Podcast by OurCalling—the goal is to be a learner. What can we learn about serving those experiencing homelessness? Even though we have years of experience, can we step back, take a fresh look, and rethink everything we know? OurCalling is a Christian nonprofit (501 c3) serving the homeless community throughout Dallas County in Texas. Our team helps people get to know Jesus and get off the streets every day. Last year, we helped individuals exit homelessness over 1,300 times. We have a facility in downtown Dallas, and our street outreach teams visit over 4,000 locations throughout the county. We serve about 10,000 individuals experiencing homelessness each year. We partner with the most amazing organizations and recognize that we are stronger when we work together.
Today, we're gonna talk about the 24, the 24 hour club. I'm here with Tim and Marsha, and we're gonna dive deeper into a residential recovery program here in Dallas.
Marsha Williams:Who is our calling? What does our calling do to help the homeless? The nonprofit.
Wayne:We care with dignity. Our calling. Can't help but think about the definition of
Marsha Williams:Christian We connect with intentionality. Called our calling
Tim:To our calling We build community with
Wayne:integrity.
Marsha Williams:Our calling
Wayne:This is our calling and our podcast, a word on the streets about homelessness. Well, I'm here with Marsha and Tim. Ladies first. Marsha, tell me who you are and what you've done at the 24 hour club for so many years.
Marsha Williams:Okay. I am a happily married woman to my husband of 48 years as of last week. Wow. And, thank you. It's been an accomplishment.
Marsha Williams:We had 3 sons. We had lost our eldest son to addiction and mental illness. And, so that's been a huge component of who I am now. We have a great relationship with our other 2 sons, who are 42 and 36, who really suffered during that time. And we've had a lot of healing, which, by God's grace.
Marsha Williams:I have been in the workforce for most of our married life, and was really my DNA is non profit. And that was centered in in the beginning in a church in 2 churches, actually. And then I had a consulting firm, that I did non profit consulting with. And one of the jobs landed me at Dallas 24 Hour Club. And I knew about addiction from a personal standpoint, and I've been attending Al Anon, but I did not know really anything about how to run a facility like Dallas 24 Hour Club, which we finally called the 24.
Marsha Williams:Thank goodness Tim was there, and he knew the ropes, and I was really good at helping solve complex, problems, and we had our hands full with those types of things. So that's, I think, my calling. God placed me there to help, I guess, stabilize the place, get some operations into place, get a new building, and really start formulating a wonderful supportive staff that we now have.
Wayne:So you worked there for how long?
Marsha Williams:10 years.
Wayne:10 years. Mhmm. As the
Marsha Williams:1st as a consultant. There's been a miscommunication. I was not the CEO for 10 years, which we're gonna have to correct that. In March of 2014, I took over as the interim and then was hired full time in June of 14. And, during that time, we, you know, were struggling until 2018 when we opened our new building.
Marsha Williams:The the what the what we were teaching in our program to help people accept long term sobriety was working, but the nuts and bolts were not working. So I got to be a part of that Mhmm. Solution.
Wayne:That's so fun. Mhmm.
Marsha Williams:It was.
Wayne:Awesome. And, Tim?
Tim:Well, Marsha still works for the 24 hour club. I just wanna be, straight up with y'all. So she, she transitioned last year from CEO and retired, and then they asked me kinda what I wanted to do. I took over on September 1st, and I said, well, the first order of business will be resigning Marsha as a consultant, for for fundraising and and kind of board relations. That's not my strong point.
Tim:It is her strong point. I wanna learn from her and grow in that area, and, she gracefully accepted. And so she's still involved as a CEO Emeritus and does such wonderful work and builds relationships with people. So she's still she's still going strong just on a part time basis.
Marsha Williams:Yes.
Wayne:Wow. Yes. So you guys have said something, and you said it in 2 different ways. And I wanna clarify the 24 hour club, and then you said the 24. What is the 24 hour club, and why is it now called the 24?
Tim:Well, 24 hour club is the most I mean, the best place on on the planet. It's a transitional, sober living for homeless alcoholics and addicts, and we really wanna, help help people learn how to stay sober and stay housed permanently. And that's one piece is the transitional living. Our our our legal name is Dallas 24 Hour Club, but around the community, even a guy like Wayne would say the 24 where I'm at the 24. Meet me at the 24.
Tim:Go to the 24 if you need help for anything. And, and and so that's what it's that's what it's referred to. But Marsha made the legal name, Dallas 24 Hour Club back in 20 2014. And, it's it's really kind of about the brand, but it's more than just transitional living. It's more than just a house where people sleep and go to meetings.
Tim:It's kind of a living, breathing organization. And, one of the thing there there's a few things that make us unique, and one of them is that we're open to the public. Anybody can walk in there at any time and ask for help for anything. And a lot of times those people come in, and we help them live there and get off the street and learn how to stay sober and get a job and get some life skills and learn how to budget and, you know, the list kinda goes on and on and on. But a lot of those people either don't qualify to live there, aren't ready to be there, need acute hospitalization, need something else than what we can provide.
Tim:And so we do a lot of referrals out. We also host, one one one of our main, objectives as an organization is to be a 12 step venue. So we host about 39 12 step meetings, per week, which is a lot. I mean, it's it's it's over 2,000 meetings a year. Wow.
Tim:And, you know, that it's it's a if, you know, some people call it a ministry, man. Like, our our our ministry is to help those that are hurting from drug and alcohol and homelessness. Another thing that makes us unique is you don't have any have to have anything to start. You come in, you know, give us your hungry, give us your broken, give us your hurting, and, we we know we know how to guide those people and kind of nurse them back to health, mentally, physically, spiritually, and hopefully have that transformational change to lose the desire to use drugs and alcohol and also teach pertinent life skills and help people get on the right track so they can stay housed and not return to the streets.
Wayne:I think you said this, but I'm gonna ask Marsha to clarify. Why 24 Hour Club? Of all the names, what what what's significant about that?
Marsha Williams:Well, actually, that was the name well before I got there. We've been we've been in existence 55 years in June. I think that it symbolizes that we we are present 24 hours a day. So, if someone knocks on our door at 3 am, we are gonna try to help them. You know, many people that are from the public need help at odd hours of the day.
Marsha Williams:Generally, when our residents come, they're in a, you know, really structured environment. So we are have 24 hour wake staff that is guiding them, but also really helping the public.
Wayne:That's amazing. You know, from my perspective here at Our Calling, we get a lot of people into different programs, and there's always this time barrier. You know? They don't do intake at 9 AM, and some of them stop at noon or some 2 o'clock, and it's different for all of them. But what you're saying is 24 hours a day, someone can show up and they'll be greeted.
Marsha Williams:Yes.
Wayne:And welcomed in.
Marsha Williams:Yes.
Wayne:That's awesome.
Marsha Williams:Yeah. I don't wanna make I wanna be clear that that doesn't mean we sometimes we have somebody overnight that is coming in if there's a critical need, but usually, we resource them out in the middle of the night. Mhmm. You know, but we don't let them just be by themselves where they can be harmed. Wow.
Marsha Williams:Because, you know, we know that homeless people are very vulnerable.
Wayne:39 meetings a week. Why 39? I mean, why not 40 or 38? I mean, what what is it about that? Is that a recipe that works with your schedule?
Tim:You know, it's not our schedule, and and each, group that meets at the 24 hour club is independent, and and we, we act as kind of the the conduit. And people would come to us and say, hey. I would like to bring in a meeting to the 24 hour club. We wanna meet down there. We wanna start a group.
Tim:I think that rents, are not only making it harder to be housed, but it's also harder to have a 12 step meeting, an AA meeting, an NA meeting, a CA meeting because rents are up.
Wayne:Yeah.
Tim:And you have to find some kind of benevolent organization like a church or something like that where you can meet the old, you know, clubhouse, is is becoming very hard to to have where you can kind of have a place to eat and have a place to meet all the time. And so it really has been an attraction piece of people coming to us and say, okay. We've got this time on Saturday Sunday mornings at 7 AM. Is that when you wanna have a meeting? Mhmm.
Tim:You know, let's let's start there.
Wayne:And are some of those groups that everybody comes from outside, or are they just meeting with your residents?
Tim:Open to the public. So
Wayne:all those meetings are?
Tim:Every meeting is open to the public that we have. It's one of the main purposes of the 24 hour club. A lot of people in recovery and a lot of people just in general, believe that in by helping others, we help ourselves. Mhmm. But it's especially true with people in recovery.
Tim:I mean, we're kinda we have to if we wanna if we wanna stay clean, and you'll hear it in the in in the recovery rooms. Go down to the 24 hour club. Go down to the 24 hour club. Or you have, if if you're not feeling good, if you're feeling squirrelly, if you're feeling depressed, go down to the 24 hour club and try somebody try to find somebody to help because you will find someone. And by have a re by have a recurring commitment to come do a meeting or something like that, you're putting yourself in a high, not risk, a high people that need help environment Sure.
Tim:Mhmm. On a regular basis.
Wayne:So I wanna be careful we don't use inside terms that nobody understands. Right? Sure. Baseball guys, football guys, use these terms. You said a clubhouse.
Wayne:I'm familiar with what that is. Right? Storefront, usually a triangle with a circle on the Yes. On the on the door, and it means this is a place for some kind of 12 step recovery meeting. And I've been into a lot of those, you know, you go in and usually you can tell because of the puff of cigarette smoke coming out the door, you know.
Wayne:But, it's a place where there's usually, you know, AA meetings. And so it's traditionally a clubhouse where you're having 12 step meetings in ASA, you know, CA. But you guys are that clubhouse, but a 24 hour entry point. Right?
Tim:Correct.
Marsha Williams:We're we're the host.
Wayne:You're the host.
Marsha Williams:We host them.
Wayne:Right. Yeah.
Marsha Williams:And one of the things that is so beautiful is that we feel like we really help the public because it encourages them to stay sober, but it also helps our residents to have people coming in from the outside that can say, look, you can do this. They can be mentors or sponsors. You know, they can have a cup of coffee with them in our dining facility, or have a meal with them. That's really the hub of the 24s, the hubcap cafe, because fellowship is so critical as a component of recovery.
Wayne:Well, I think that the word club is important because, you know, if someone wasn't familiar with the, you know, addiction recovery world, they would think, well, is it like Sam's Club or like, you know, some kind of exclusive club? But it means club like a clubhouse in recovery, open 24 hours a day, and then you said a cafe. Describe what that is.
Marsha Williams:Well, we have a full service cafe restaurant that's open from 6 AM to 10 PM, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It is staffed by our residents, and we have a kitchen supervisor that is, a person who's come through the kitchen training program and is now in a leash leadership position. That person is full time, is on benefits, and then those that are line cooks, they have a 6 month training program. And once they're completed, we try to place them in restaurants around, you know, the community, which we have several of our, supporters have restaurants, and they welcome them. In fact, we were just with, someone a little earlier today, and he said, I have got 2 fabulous women from the 24 who are hostesses, and they are the best we've ever had.
Wayne:Wow.
Marsha Williams:He said, they don't have the right clothing for nighttime hostessing, so we're gonna buy them a wardrobe.
Wayne:Oh, wow.
Marsha Williams:And I was like blown away.
Wayne:That's so awesome.
Marsha Williams:How beautiful that your employer cares that much. But he's in recovery.
Wayne:That's so awesome. Mhmm. So I went into the old facility many times.
Marsha Williams:Me too.
Wayne:And, you know
Marsha Williams:Tim was a resident.
Wayne:Oh, you were a resident.
Tim:Well and that's that's how I got my introduction to the 24 Hour Club. It was in, 2010. I was, living at, a halfway house in East Dallas that wasn't the 24 Hour Club, and there were some guys who were really passionate about helping others. And I'm still friends with those people today, because they were doing the things that they needed to do to make them free. And, I wasn't quite ready for that.
Tim:And there were several times when they said, hey. Do you wanna go to a meeting? Do you wanna go to a meeting? And so I went with them up there, and I said, I'll never stay in that place. And,
Wayne:And why is that?
Tim:I wasn't humbled. Mhmm. And I thought I was better than it. And, what happened was is I went back out and went back to town the streets and drugs and alcohol, and, and I came back crawling. You know?
Tim:I I when I wanted to finally check-in, I called all the other places where I had been in the past, but this time, I didn't have any money or any insurance or anything like that, and so I had nowhere to go. And, the 24 hour club did not care about money or insurance or where I'm from or who I was or who I knew. They just care about one thing is, do you wanna stay sober, and are you willing to follow some simple rules? And they welcome me in. And, the, you know, the 20 the old 24 hour club was a different beast.
Tim:Obviously, the the the physical, plant was not as neat and nice as it is now. And but, man, I loved it. I it was it was and I I think the reason I've been to a lot of nice places, Wayne, but the reason why I loved it is because I started changing on the inside. And when I changed on the inside, things on the outside looked differently. And I was super like, I had a lot of gratitude for the 24 hour club and living there, and it's where that I established a relationship with God.
Wayne:Wow. So it's a place that's open 24 hour a day. The word club is from the clubhouses for AA and recovery, and there's 39 meetings there from outside groups that come in. You guys are teaching me a lot. You're gonna quiz me on this in a minute.
Wayne:Do you have a cafe? Then I hear the pancakes are awesome. Right? Open pretty much 7 to 10. And then, 365 days a year Yes.
Wayne:So every day. But the most impactful 24 hour club is this residential process, where someone doesn't just come for a breakfast or doesn't just come for a meeting, doesn't just come for a, hey. Can you help me for a minute? But actually gets into that living long term recovery process as a residential recovery program. Right?
Marsha Williams:Right.
Wayne:Correct. How many beds for men and women do you guys have?
Tim:Up to 90.
Wayne:Okay. Up to 90
Tim:Yeah.
Wayne:Beds for men and women to come in. And what's the process look like? Someone comes in and says, hey. I wanna come in. I wanna get off the streets.
Wayne:I wanna get clean and sober. What's that look like?
Tim:Yeah. We're gonna spend a little time with them and get to know them, because we have certain criteria. You know? You you have to have a substance abuse problem. You have to have some type of identification.
Tim:We run everybody's background. You know, you can't have any aggravated crimes, such offenses, or arsons. And, you know, if a person qualifies and first of all, if they don't qualify, we're never gonna leave them hanging. We always provide referrals, transportation, bus passes, whatever they need to get the help that they need. We're gonna break our backs trying to get it.
Tim:But if they do qualify to live at the 24 hour club, we're gonna welcome them in. You know, we're gonna provide hygiene, linens, clothes, medical care through Parkland Homes, and food for your 1st 30 days through the Hubcap Cafe. We have a lot of generous donors like Trader Joe's, many other places. That's a primary purpose of the Hubcap Cafe is to provide food for our residents for their first 30 days and then train up to 4 people. And then we sell low cost food to the rest of the community and the rest of the residents to try to break even in the in the in the in the kitchen.
Tim:We try to keep our costs low because our people don't make that much money Yeah. Especially when they're when they're starting out. And we have a 3 phase system where when you come in, we need structure, support, accountability, random and scheduled drug testing, breathalyzing. Everybody has to go to a meeting every night. You wake up at 6 in the morning, do some chores, eat some breakfast, either work or go look for work.
Tim:And, you know, you have to get kind of a mentor or somebody to to help you that's not associated with the 24 hour club. It can't be a 24 hour club, employee. And so you get somebody who who kinda sponsors you and and and and and helps you through the through the recovery process. And we think that's really important to get somebody outside of our of our staff, just a a a person who's doing it, to help themselves, but but also help others.
Wayne:How would they meet them? So if I'm living at the 24 hour club, but I have to get a sponsor from someone that doesn't work there, how am I gonna meet somebody? They're there. They coming in for meetings?
Tim:Yeah. Okay. They come to meetings. And, also, we we give we pass out a lot of numbers. Okay.
Tim:Sometimes you just our staff will help connect Yep. People. Sometimes you get a good sense of, hey. Wayne would be a good guy for this. Marsha would be a good guy a good person for this.
Tim:And, you know, they've they they they have to meet and, just kinda get back into the swing of life. We're very undisciplined. We don't fall you know, we're up all night and everything like that. And phase 1 is just a real reset. It's very strict.
Tim:It's very you know, you have to be here at this time and here at this time and here at this time. And as you make progress both in your sobriety and your life, you step down.
Wayne:You get some freedoms.
Tim:You get some freedoms. Yeah. And then over time, like, that that would be kind of the phase 2, which can last up to 6 months. And then we actually have, some apartments, which is another miracle, like low income, housing, which is our 3rd phase, which can last up to a year where people can work online credit repair and saving money to get ready for that next step of their life.
Wayne:Okay. So someone comes in to the 24 hour club, and they come in for breakfast. They come in for a meeting. At some point, they come in and say, hey. I I really want to get clean and to quit messing around.
Wayne:And so you guys do a thorough, you know, evaluation interview with them, make sure that they don't have a terrible criminal background and not gonna hurt anybody there and have an ID. And then you let them stay there. And I hear you say there's a couple of phases. Marsha, at what point if I'm there and I know I've got some, sobriety and meetings to go to every day because you guys require them to work. Yes.
Wayne:Right? At what point do they have to get a job, and how do you guys help them find jobs?
Marsha Williams:Well, fortunately, we are located on a very busy commercial street, Ross Avenue. And so when we say to a new person, you don't have to get the job, you have to get a job. Because we want you out working, learning how to manage your time, being a good person, being a good employee. So, often, they will, you know, find a job at a fast food restaurant or U Haul store or grocery store. All those kinds of jobs are readily available.
Marsha Williams:And then, as they get more stable, then they can start looking for something that's more in their former line of work or you know, we are now providing education, so we can help them get something that is going to have a living wage. And that is really important, we can talk about that a little bit later, but we really, believe that work ethic is important. We believe that them paying a small fee, you know, once they get a job, is is important for them to learn how to manage their money, manage their time.
Wayne:So they come in, they get a job locally, a job, doesn't have to be the perfect job, but just a job. You're teaching them life skills. They have to get up in the morning to do chores. Mhmm. They're still going to meetings.
Wayne:And after a while, they have to start contributing, paying just to be part have ownership in there.
Marsha Williams:Right.
Wayne:Right? And then you said you do some training, some education for better, you know, better employment. What does that look like?
Marsha Williams:We have formed some really exciting partnerships with Dallas College. They have a Work Ready You program that has been a huge blessing to many of our residents. Because in a 17 week period for example, you can get your first leg up in getting your welding, certification. You know, welders make good money. We are they have a variety of, programs.
Marsha Williams:Like, you can be a customer service person at an Omni Hotel. We have lots of connections with hotels, owners that we can help place them in jobs once they finish that. So that's been a really exciting new component. It's cost free. It is hard, you know, they work all day and then they've got to go to school at night for, you know, several days a week.
Marsha Williams:We also are working on having a successful partnership with Texas Tech University, either online or in person, But they really wanna welcome our people. They see the value of having someone who's been homeless, have experienced homelessness, and are ready for to get their education. You know, that is amazing to me. You know, it was easy for me to get my degree because I didn't have to deal with all of the other stressors of remembering who I was, and where I was, and what time of day it was. I was very well supported, our residents aren't.
Marsha Williams:So we become that family person for them to help them. We also are working with, Construction Financial Management Association. They have a foundation called Construction Education Foundation, and we are working to have a program put into place by next fall, where we can hopefully send 10, hopefully 20 of our people to their programming. That would then prepare them to get their plumber's license, and welding, and all the, you know, HVAC, all those things that are so helpful. And the construction industry is really hurting.
Marsha Williams:The labor is short. You know, there's a huge labor shortage.
Tim:There's a couple other things, Wayne. Kind of breaking news. We've formed a partnership with Bank of America to come to come teach better money habits. So that's once a month. It's a 6 Can I
Wayne:sign up for that?
Marsha Williams:Carolyn says yes.
Wayne:Yeah. So
Tim:it's a 6 month curriculum at the phase 3, and it's a 3 month curriculum at the main facility. And, we have a new career coach coming through to do, kind of employment readiness, really, wherever a person's at. If they already have a job and they're looking for a better job to make more money, she helps prepare them for that. If a person is unemployable, she helps with resumes and trying to get that first job through relationships with second chance employers. And then, we also have monthly life skills.
Tim:So really and, like, a legal program, legal advocacy. And so there's several different different strategies we're using to reduce those barriers to long term recovery and housing, and it's we're seeing great dividends. Mhmm.
Wayne:You know, I hear all the time, how come homeless guys just don't get a job? Get a job. Right? You hear all the time. Well, there's so many barriers to that.
Wayne:First barrier is it's kinda hard to work a job when you have to go poop behind a building Mhmm. And take a bath at a sink. Right? So kind of being a state safe place, you know, one of the things we talk about at our calling is we want stability before we talk about sustainability. Right?
Wayne:Just a stable environment where you can lock a door and you're not afraid for your life. Mhmm. So people can go to the 24 hour club and they can have a stable place. That 1st month, just kind of get catch catch up on sleep, eat good food, start building relationships, learn how to be a part of a community, going you to your meetings, and then they start looking for a job. And then you're helping them not only learn how to work a job, but the life skills to keep a job.
Wayne:Mhmm. Everybody's had jobs. Not everybody can keep a job. Mhmm. And then you've got 3rd phase, housing.
Wayne:You've got Bank of America teaching bank classes and career coaching. What's next?
Marsha Williams:Well, let me back up 2 years. It's in May, it's coming up 2 years. That was when we really were starting for the first time to collect data, and we were really, you know, trying to start analyzing, is our program working? And we want to be able to communicate that to externally to people who might wanna donate or to foundations, you know, who want that kind of information. But also, it was really critical for internal purposes for us to see, is that program working for Tim and why is it not?
Marsha Williams:And so, we could start spotting problems. And for me, I literally felt like it was the light bulb turned on. We were watching our recidivism rate, which, you know, the revolving door, that rate was not going down. And yet, we were having all of these successful completions of our program from residents, but they were coming back. And it was the reason, not always the reason, but a large degree.
Marsha Williams:The reason was they successfully graduated, they were prepared for the outside world, they had been living, you know, in a supportive situation, and most of them didn't have a car. The only affordable housing, which I'm tired of that term, because it's it's we're not solving that problem, was out in an area where they didn't have public transportation. So, eventually, quickly usually, they, got back into poverty, and then they went back into homelessness, and then addiction. So we've that's when we've really started focusing on life skills and education to say, we can't just focus on long term recovery. That is great, that has to be primary, absolutely primary.
Marsha Williams:If we don't teach that, then you can't be successful in any part of your life. So when we started doing that, it really has reduced our recidivism rate tremendously from 2022 to 2023. Can you give me those stats? Yeah. We were down from about 29% to 18%.
Tim:Oh, wow. So it's pretty significant. There's a a lot of things came in, including phase 3 at that point that have we really believe, the maybe failure launch or when people were were leaving the main facility, we really believe we've made some some lasting impact, changes on that.
Wayne:Mhmm. You know, it's amazing because, you know, we we get people in lots of programs, like, about 800 different programs. Some of them are 30 day programs. The likelihood of you surviving and staying clean and sober and connected after that, it's just, you know, I don't I don't know why. Then you have 6 month programs, and it's a little bit better.
Wayne:Then you have 9 month, 12 month programs. But what you guys have said is, look. You go through the program. It's, I think a month, you said, the first phase, and then you got 6 more months. And then you have housing to give people a stable environment to live in, so they're still connected.
Wayne:Mhmm. They're still getting accountability. They're maybe still going to meetings. They're still in a safe environment. Mhmm.
Wayne:They're
Marsha Williams:still getting drug tested.
Wayne:Yeah. You otherwise, you just drop people off in the middle of society where society is hard.
Marsha Williams:Right.
Wayne:And you put them in the most dangerous drug infested apartments because that's all they can afford. Right. And then they're expected to stay clean and sober just seems impossible.
Tim:Well and it's that's what my mind says too, but we needed something to back that up. So we had a clinical psychologist. His name is doctor Ben Albritton write a paper on length of stay. Mhmm. And and what from his research, from his data, from his experience, what prove what is the most long lasting situation.
Wayne:Mhmm.
Tim:And it's his expert opinion that if you stay a year or more, your chances are way better. I don't have the exact stats in front of me. Mhmm. So we wanted a program where people had the opportunity to have the best outcome. And I think, really, that's what's matched for the 24 hour club is is refining our wraparound services for our people, statistical collection for people once they leave, which is very hard to do, but we're working on it.
Tim:Refining that process, perhaps cut some type of hub and spoke model where the main facility is the hub. The Tillman Apartments is the first spoke, and maybe there's other spokes, maybe even a phase 4, especially just where, you know, in Dallas, the the single family home or single family apartment dream is kind of getting crunched with just the the the rents and everything like that. We're thinking about alternate forms of housing and sober living past the Tillman House because where do you go back then? Extending the runway, but not in a way that needs to be significantly financially supported through fundraising efforts, things that will support themselves with one capital investment. That's Like
Wayne:an Oxford House group home kind of thing? Correct.
Tim:Yeah. Correct.
Marsha Williams:But it would be run differently. We would have site staff oversight.
Wayne:Mhmm.
Marsha Williams:We think that is really preferential. And we have, even at our apartment complex, we have a full time staff member, and then we have resident staff liaisons, which that's one of the part time staff positions we have that has been so incredibly effective, because they are residents that live amongst their peers, but they are staff members. And they observe and report, encourage, provide mentorship, and they that's a 6 month program. And many of them are we've teach them a lot of get a lot of certifications as well as teaching how to be in the treatment field. And we've many of our staff liaisons have gone on to be in treatment centers
Wayne:Wow.
Marsha Williams:And and have jobs there.
Wayne:I can't imagine the frustration that you guys face because we face very similar frustrations is when people get into housing that's not supported. Maybe they get a visit once or twice a month. That doesn't do much Nope. For me. Right?
Wayne:It's like saying I'm gonna eat once or twice a month. Right? Someone that's struggling with all the challenges that led them there, then you get them into a place where they're isolated and they have once a month or once every other you know, twice a month kind of visits. You're talking about a resident staff member every day checking on you, checking your pulse. Are you doing okay?
Marsha Williams:Do you have a new drug test?
Wayne:Yeah. When you're mad at the middle in the night instead of going out and getting high again, someone in there to sit, calm you down, and and to walk you through the process and continuing that drug test, continuing that relationship. That's really, really awesome.
Tim:And I think community is I mean, what do we do? Right? We we help build an ecosystem where recovery is fertile soil fertile soil to plant seeds. Right? And and the community of the 24 hour club, our residents are definitely the best asset for new people coming in.
Tim:Mhmm. Because if you have been there for 3 days, then you know how to help somebody with 0 days. Yeah. And it's it's just it's it's like just a continue to help the next person. That's a big part of our program is mentorship.
Tim:So the phase 2 residents mentor the phase 1 resident on their intake. They're immediately plugged in. They hear the rules. They get a tour from a resident. Right?
Tim:And then within 3 days, our Tillman residents, our phase 3 residents are required to come almost intervene on them and say, what do you know about recovery? You know, here's my number. Here's 2 jobs that I know that are hiring. Here's 2 guys that you could call at any point in time, and they're building recovery capital all this time. So from day from the 1st 3 days, like, they already have their server support network has grown.
Tim:They they they just you start feeling a part of.
Wayne:Mhmm. You know, one of the things I say when we talk about homelessness here at our calling is that the number one contributing factor to homelessness is broken community.
Marsha Williams:Yes.
Wayne:It's not drugs, it's not alcohol, it's not money, it's not I mean, that's important. Right? It's not mental health. It's broken community. Because when you are in that space where, frankly, no one gives a damn Mhmm.
Wayne:Or you've burned every bridge Yeah. Right? Doesn't matter what it is, it pushes you over the edge. You have no money and just some little crisis with no community just sends you spiraling.
Marsha Williams:Mhmm. Well and I think that we've really done a good job of training our staff to not be the parent, but be that guide, that supporter, that encourager, and give them give them solutions. Don't just keep pointing out the problems, which is I think what's happened in their broken community. The family just gave up. They couldn't take that anymore.
Wayne:Yeah.
Marsha Williams:The other thing too, I love the peer to peer recovery support. It's so important.
Tim:The best.
Marsha Williams:But to mention the safety part, going back to that, we do we are open to the public. However, we have locked doors between the public and the residential area. We have locked door between the women's in the the women's area. And I think because when you come in, you're pretty paranoid, you're pretty frightened, you're pretty beat up, If not physically, definitely emotionally and spiritually, that we wanna provide that environment that keeps them helps them immediately to feel safe.
Wayne:So you talk about the trauma people bring in when they come. You know, fight or flight is important. We all have that. We look forward to it. It's good.
Wayne:It helps us, you know, when something scary happens. But, you know, someone experiencing homelessness has been stuck in that fight or flight mode for so long they can't get out of it. And so they're always paranoid, always looking over their shoulder, and they should because it's a scary Right. Scary environment. Survival.
Wayne:Wow. Faith. Now when I read the big book, right, the AA book and gone through AA meetings, you know, it talks about a God of our understanding. Right? A higher power.
Wayne:What is the faith is there a faith component to the 24?
Marsha Williams:Well, I think the as you know, the the 12 steps are gospel centered. So what we love is when, you know, they get down to step 4, step 5, they start the God light turns on. We don't proselytize, we're not a Christian ministry, however, we certainly are open if a resident approaches us. And we, as a staff, we pray together, we believe in the God, we believe in the Lord. And that's a beautiful picture of a loan, because every Monday at 2, we have staff meeting, and there is prayer requests, there are prayers for one another, and we check on one another throughout the, you know, the the following week.
Marsha Williams:But, yes, God is in the house, 100%.
Tim:Yeah. So we're spiritual, non religious as an organization. And, but, I mean, it's you know, the book is very clear. We have to find a higher power. We must or or or or else.
Tim:And so that is what we're coming out of. You know? That's is our solution.
Wayne:Yeah. I've met so many people over the years that, you know, tell me the story that, you know, they were praying to the doorknob because that's what got them in there, praying to the carpet. That's what holding them up or praying to their grandmother or something. Something. And finally, at some point, you realize that tire power is not very high.
Tim:Yeah. That's not gonna get it.
Wayne:Kinda left me kind of the Paul at Mars Hill. There's an unknown God, and I don't know who he is. And that's where there's an opportunity to to talk about Christ. I think that's beautiful.
Marsha Williams:Well, and our residents talk about Jesus all the time.
Wayne:Yeah.
Marsha Williams:And they really do more to influence and present the gospel to their fellow residents than anybody else. And that is such a beautiful picture to me, is that because if we don't have Christ in our life, then we really struggle to get back on the right track and stay on the right track.
Wayne:Mhmm. Wow. That's amazing. You guys have just given me such I mean, I feel like I could go speak at a fundraiser for the 24 weeks. Well, please do.
Wayne:Anytime. Wait. Bring it. Yeah.
Marsha Williams:I
Wayne:mean, to to me, what you guys do is so holistic. Being welcoming and open at any time, 24 hours a day for people to come in Mhmm. And then be able to help them with that entire process from picking them up off the street, right, in that moment of addiction and all the way through not only living in a safe environment, but learning how to be human again, learning how to build community and be a part of a community and doing chores and then getting a job, and then better employment, and then education, and then housing. I mean, it feels like
Marsha Williams:Reconnecting with your family. Yeah. That's my big goal. We also we have a really strong alumni program too, because we we know that another way to stay sober is for us for them to be connected to us. So we try to have, you know, we have an alumni group, the friends of the 24.
Marsha Williams:We have an advocates group that does, things for the community. They may not have been a resident. And we have sober fun events because we really want it to be that family like environment. And I laugh all the time because occasionally, a family member will come in with their loved one. That's pretty rare.
Marsha Williams:And the first thing the mother says is, can he call me on his cell phone? Can he have a cell phone? Can he have his car? I said, sure. We're not I mean, we are locked down from the standpoint you have to be curfew.
Marsha Williams:But your that's your job to meet curfew, not our job. And they are so relieved because as one of our staff member says all the time, when I went into treatment, all I was thinking about how many how many days left for 30 days so I could get out. I didn't try to build relationships with anybody else at at that treatment center. He said, when I came to the 24, I found a family. And he's and it's true.
Wayne:Wow. That is so beautiful.
Tim:You know, one thing about faith, Wayne, like, I always tell people, we don't want, like, we don't want people to come to the 24 hour club and live in the 24 hour club and stay sober at the 24 hour club and then go back out and smoke crack. Yeah. We want to but I understand it that when you come in and you're coming off the streets, you don't know how to stay sober, you put your faith and your reliance in the 24 hour club, and that's good. You should. We're there for you.
Tim:But we wanna transition your faith independence from the 24 hour club to God. While you're there, that's a spiritual transformation. And faith without works is dead. Right? And so, like, we can have faith all day long, but the works, those those those simple twelve things that we ask people to do, you know, when you're angry, do this.
Tim:When you're afraid, do this. Go back and clean up the records of your past. Like, yeah, we believe in while you're living in a transitional living for homeless, we believe in going back and pay and paying for the records of your past. It doesn't it doesn't sound right, but that's the path. You know?
Tim:Mhmm. And, and and and by by faith and by works, a person can can stay sober, but not without I don't believe you can do it without each other.
Wayne:You know. And those have to go together?
Tim:They have to go together.
Marsha Williams:And maybe action is a better word than works. I think, for me, because it is taking action. It's cleaning up those things. Because I think that we get too scared of the word works, because that, you know, we we don't anyway, if that's a whole biblical situation.
Wayne:Well, we're not talking about, you know Right. Yeah. Evangelism. Right? We're not talking about Ephesians 289, we're talking about that Talking about James.
Wayne:Order to be sober Mhmm. We have to have a strong belief and a strong willpower to do the right things and be around the right people and to say yes and to say no in at the right times. Mhmm. To do the work, go through the 12 steps, seek reconciliation, work through the records of your past Mhmm. And then continue and to help others do the same, the 12 step.
Wayne:Right?
Tim:Correct.
Wayne:Service. Awesome.
Tim:And I think one thing that Marsha mentioned is, like, we always wanna be family like. So and you can tell me to stop whenever, Wayne. But, I mean, we we don't want to be institutional. Mhmm. We don't want to say, oh, Marsha Williamson, she's number 11111.
Tim:Like, I wanna know Marsha Williamson. I wanna know where she's from. I wanna know a little bit about her story. I wanna personally talk to each person that enters in the club and welcome them, let them know that I'm available, have an open door policy, family like environment of of just getting to know the real person and spending time with them when and not just stamp their file. Wow.
Tim:And I think that makes lasting change.
Wayne:Yeah. Well, thank you guys for being here. Thanks for this time, and, thanks for the opportunity for us to learn more about the 24.
Marsha Williams:Thank you so much.
Tim:Thank you. And you guys are the best.
Marsha Williams:Yes.