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On the WorkWell Podcast, Jen Fisher — Human Sustainability Leader at Deloitte and Editor-at-Large, Human Sustainability at Thrive Global — sits down with inspiring individuals for wide-ranging conversations about how we can develop a way of living and working built on human sustainability, starting with ourselves.
Jennifer Fisher (Jen): Hi WorkWell listeners. I’m really excited to share that my book ‘Work Better
Together’ is officially out. Conversations with WorkWell guests and feedback from listeners like you
inspired this book. It’s all about how to create a more human-centered workplace. And as we return to
the office for many of us, this book can help you move forward into post-pandemic life with strategies
and tools to strengthen your relationships and focus on your well-being. It’s available now from your
favorite book retailer.
As a Floridian, I’m no stranger to natural disasters. Even though I’ve been through quite a few
hurricanes, I still get a ton of anxiety every time one hits, and I know I’m not the only one. In fact,
climate change and the uncertainty about the health of our planet in the future can be a source of stress
for many. How can you manage climate anxiety and also do your part to save the planet? It starts by
taking actions.
This is the WorkWell podcast series. Hi, I’m Jen Fisher, chief well-being officer for Deloitte, and I’m so
pleased to be with you today to talk about all things well-being. I’m here with Heather White. She’s an
environmentalist, lawyer, and non-profit executive with more than 20 years of experience in
environmental law, policy, and advocacy. She’s also the author, founder, and CEO of ‘One Green Thing.’
Her goal is to spark joy in the climate action journey and build momentum towards widespread culture
change that will drive climate solutions. Heather, welcome to the show.
Heather White (Heather): Thanks so much, Jen. It’s a pleasure.
Jen: So, in your bio, you’re listed as an environmentalist first and a lawyer second. So, I want to know
how you became so passionate about climate change.
Heather: Oh Jen, what a great question. So, I grew up in East Tennessee, really close to the Great Smoky
Mountains National Park. So, my earliest memories are hiking and camping with my parents. So, from an
early age, I was fascinated by the environment, environmental science, time outdoors, but also I knew
that there was a legacy of nuclear waste contamination near Oak Ridge where I grew up. I also
understood all the pressures of development, and so I thought environmental science would be a great
place to start. So, I’ve been doing this climate action environmental policy and law for more than
20 years, it’s 25 years now, but it was my kids and a conversation at the dinner table with my kids that
prompted me to write this book and take my climate action to the next level.
Jen: So, let’s talk about it. I want to get into some of the components of your book, but let’s talk about
more broadly how climate change is impacting our mental health?
Heather: Climate change is impacting our mental health in very significant ways, especially for young
people. There was a survey in September of 2021, so it’s pretty recent survey, of 10,000 young people,
ages 16 through 25 and 47%, so nearly half, said that climate anxiety, which is defined by the American
Psychological Association as the chronic fear of environmental doom, climate anxiety interfered with
their daily life, so for nearly half, and one out of four did not want to have children of their own because
they’re so worried about the future that we’re leaving them. So, climate anxiety and it was my kids who
actually brought this to my attention when they started sharing about how they felt about the future
were leaving them. Once I started having these conversations around the dinner table, even as someone
who’s been involved in climate action for all this time, I worked for Al Gore’s campaign, I was an
environmental lawyer, I’ve run two national environmental non-profits, I worked on Capitol Hill,
knowing how young people and how concerned they are. They’re so concerned about the seven years
we have to save the planet that it is becoming, I would say, it’s an epidemic that we aren’t talking about.
Jen: So, you’ve been in this field for a long time. so, I guess talk to me about how that’s evolved and
changed and how are the other generations feeling about it or are they not? I mean, I think they’re not
as potentially as anxious or worried about it, but talk to me a little about the evolution of all of this.
Heather: Jen, that’s such a great question, and before I get there, I’ll tell you what happened to me. And
what happened to me is that in 2019, my older daughter who was a freshman in high school asked
permission to walk out of school to participate in the Greta Thunberg climate strike. And I said, of course
you can go, and frankly, Jen, I was proud of myself. I was like, ‘Yeah, you know, she learned from
watching Mom. This is great.’
Jen: Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Heather: Absolutely, and then my mom energy kicked in and I checked the weather report and I saw
that there was supposed to be thunderstorms during the walkout. I live in Bozeman, Montana, and it’s
actually pretty rare to for us to have thunderstorms. My daughter had a heavy backpack and she had a
trumpet. And so, I just instinctively said, ‘Hey, why don’t I pick you up from school and I’ll drive you to
the protest site?’ And Jen, she said, ‘Wait. What? You’re going to pick me up in a car at a walkout, but to
a climate strike?’
Jen: That doesn’t make much sense, Mom.
Heather: Right. What you’re worried about? The burden of my backpack and my trumpet. What about
the future? And then, she started crying and she said, ‘Mom, we are running out of time. You cannot
leave the climate crisis all on our shoulders. Where is Gen X, which I’m a member of? Where are the
baby boomers? Where are millennials? We feel so alone. And that was a game-changing conversation
because my younger daughter at that time too, Jen, was like, ‘Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel as well.’
And that’s what prompted me to shift my work from solely advocacy and public lens to really diving into
the research on this mental health aspect. So, your question about ‘Generationally, how do we feel?’ is a
really important one, and one of the big takeaways. I hope people get from this conversation, Jen, is for
folks to ask the young people in their life how they feel about the future we are leaving them and to a
person, because when people hear the story, I’ve had friends say to me, Jen, ‘Well, Heather, of course,
your kids have eco-anxiety, you know, because they’re your kids. They just picked it up.’ And when I say
to them talk to the young people in your life to a person, it is a game-changing conversation. One of the
things I talk about in my book is this concept of think beyond your age. The intergenerational
partnership is like a lot of syllables, but we do. We need to start creating space for young people to
share how they feel and for them to know that we’re not alone and not only that conversation
prompted me to do the research on mental health impacts of the climate crisis, but also to create this
book and then a non-profit, which is an invitation for more people to see themselves in the movement
because we need to get as many people as possible focused on sustainability in a meaningful way and to
have that culture shift that we need for big climate policy solutions.
Jen: I love the concept of seeing yourself in the movement because I know speaking from my own
experience, climate change, it’s such a big issue. There’s so much to know, so much to understand, and
there’s also so much uncertainty. So, unless you know, you don’t really even know where to start and
it’s also because it’s so big and so much uncertainty, I feel like I mean ‘Is it possible to actually manage
our anxiety and fear around it?’ because it feels like what can one person do, and I know that that’s
what ‘One Green Thing’ is about. So, let’s talk about that.
Heather: Jen, that’s so important how you broke that down because, first, climate anxiety, worry, and
intense worry about the future, that is a rational response to what’s happening globally, and I think
more and more people are connecting the dots between the extreme weather events we’re seeing,
whether it’s the wildfires out in the West, whether it’s the drought internationally, whether it’s flooding
internationally, we’re seeing the rapid events and the extreme events that are causing traumas. So,
more and more people are connecting the dots, and of course, people are anxious and worried, but to
your second point is that the issue is so overwhelming. We know that we need global policy solutions.
So, people are asking themselves, ‘OK, I skipped the straw. Will just that make a difference?’
Jen: Exactly.
Heather: ‘What am I supposed to do?’ And here’s the thing, Jen, is that environmentalists like me, we
often start the conversation about climate with the ‘What?’ Here’s the solution or we have to electrify
everything; we need to move to wind and solar as soon as possible; and oh, by the way, I love
mushroom leather, it’s a cool alternative, you should check it out instead. So, we talk about the ‘What?’
to do this, not that, instead of the ‘Who?’ And I think as somebody who does all the great work that you
do and the research that you do on mental health well-being, on teams, on connectivity, you know and
other folks who are experts in behavior change understand and the research shows that people are
more likely to change their behavior when they see themselves and they connect the behavior to their
identity. So, for example, if you decide you want to swim three times a week, you’re more likely to swim
if you say, ‘You know Jen, I’m a swimmer,’ as opposed to, ‘I swim three times a week.’ And so, that’s
why I created this assessment, which is Myers-Briggs or Enneagram or StrengthsFinder, to help people
see themselves in service. So, I ask, ‘Who are you in service to the people you love, and then from there,
here’s how you can get involved in the movement in a way that connects with your identity and your
unique talents and strengths?’
Jen: So, I take this assessment and it gives me recommendations on how I can get engaged and how I
can get involved.
Heather: Exactly. The idea is that you adopt a daily practice of sustainability. A One Green Thing each
day to try to ease eco-anxiety and shift the culture because we’re all cultural change agents in our
community. So, that’s the big ideas that the daily practice isn’t so much about counting your personal
carbon calories, it’s more about being a cultural change agent in your community. So, stepping back,
there’s seven different archetypes. The first is the adventurer and this is the hands-on learner who is a
risk taker and embraces the physicality of the outdoors. The second is the beacon, which is focused on
social justice. These are the folks who are really comfortable behind the podium or with a bullhorn in
front of a group of people. The third is the influencer, which is all about people, and this person shows
up in service by connecting others and sharing the latest trends. Then, there’s the philanthropist. The
philanthropist is the giver, the person who shows they care by sharing time and resources. Then, there’s
the stage, that spiritually connected to nature and focused on the moral case for climate action. And
then, there’s the spark, which is the cheerleader, the plus one, and a lot of people have relief when they
find out that they’re the spark, because without someone who says, ‘Sure, I’m in,’ there’s no movement,
without the plus one, there’s no movement, but you don’t even have to consider yourself an
environmentalist to be a spark. And then, finally, there’s the walk, who’s the problem solver, which,
frankly, a lot of people in environmental community are. They’re all about the data and the technology
that they can translate those complex issues into ways that people can understand.
Jen: I think for me what I love about the archetypes is exactly what you said, because there’s so much to
feel like you need to know and understand and you break it down into a way that you fit into an
archetype that you don’t necessarily need to know and understand every single little nuanced detail and
piece of data. So, it makes it very empowering to those of us that aren’t experts in this area.
Heather: That is my hope and that’s the feedback that I’ve been given from a lot of folks who’ve gone
through the assessment and picked up the book and having become part of our community because,
Jen, I think it’s important for people to understand you can’t be all things to all people in this movement
and I have friends that are very uncomfortable with the idea of protesting. It’s just not their thing.
They’re not beacons, but when they realize they’re spark and they can show that they’re part of this
community by going to a nature documentary with a friend, joining a friend who’s planning a river
cleanup, learning more about how to lobby Congress from another friend, they can see themselves in
this movement. You don’t have to be all things to all people.
Jen: It’s Behavior Change 101. It’s do one small thing a day and that does add up to big impacts.
Heather: You are absolutely right, Jen, and the data actually shows that. So, I say to people, ‘Look, it’s
not about your individual carbon footprint.’
Jen: It’s not this quirky.
Heather: It’s not about your individual carbon footprint. It is more about the culture shift that we need
for the big solutions to take hold. That said, according to Project Drawdown, another terrific resource
for climate solution, if individuals and households take daily action, they can contribute up to 25% of the
carbon emission reductions we need globally. So, it does add up collectively. And then, the culture
change can help us get to that other 75%, which is what we really need, even with big pieces of
legislation that have passed, like the Inflation Reduction Act, which has all kinds of incentives for climate
solutions. If we don’t have the culture ready and willing to accept and implement those solutions, it’s
not going to work. So, that’s why this practice is important. And then, as a well-being person, I think that
you can also see that this daily practice thinking of it like meditation, prayer, or running or journaling, it
can bring more joy into your life. It can be fun as we’re working toward a greener, healthier future.
Jen: Absolutely, and that’s why I love it too and I love the fact that you tie it to joy because again, I
continue to go back to my own experience where I was like, ‘Well, you know, there’s not really much I
can do as an individual,’ and that was absolutely the wrong mindset, but actually then changing my
mindset to understanding what my role is and what I can do and what I’m capable of doing and how I
can be proud of that. I am making a contribution to something much bigger than me, regardless of how
small it might feel. So, I think there’s part of it to that along with behavior change, you have to have the
mindset change too and say you have to give yourself that permission or that grace to be like, ‘OK, you
know, I’m doing what I can and it’s going to have it, seeing it as part of the bigger impact, which brings
you joy. So, I love it.
Heather: Oh, thank you, Jen, and that was just a great description of the intent behind a tool I have in
the book, which is called the Joy Tracker. So, you can keep track of your One Green Things, this daily
practice, and you might find composting was a fun experiment, but it’s not your thing.
Jen: But not for you.
Heather: And you want to sign up for a service and you’re going to build that into your budget over the
next six months or you may find out, ‘Oh my gosh, I love calling my member of Congress. Who knew it
was that fun?’ Or you may find out that taking a walk outside is something that you want to make a daily
habit, you want to get your Green Hour every day, and that’s really great for your mental health and
your sense of purpose or if you want to talk to your congregation about getting solar panels where you
meet, that may be what gives you joy, but the idea is you don’t have to do it all, but it is that daily
practice and creating that culture shift that we need. Now, what’s interesting is that I live with
teenagers, which, Jen, they provide a lot of feedback, which I know is good and helps me grow, Jen. I
understand that, but one of the things is this idea of like, ‘Are you giving people a pass mom with this
daily practice?’ And absolutely not. It’s not a pass, it’s an invitation. It’s an invitation because this is the
biggest challenge of our lifetimes. It is globally. We have seven years to make the reductions in carbon
emissions that we need globally and that’s significant rapid change that can only happen if all of us get
involved and tap into our unique strengths and talents. And we’re not going to get there by yelling;
we’re going to get there by inviting people in and helping them see themselves in this role. So, that’s
been a pretty interesting conversation that I’ve had with a lot of folks, especially young people who
understand the urgency and that’s why I try to tell older generations to make space for young people to
be heard and make a commitment that you are going to help them. And one of the things I talk about,
Jen, that I thought you would appreciate a lot is this idea of, and I have exercises in the book, this idea of
what type of ancestor do you want to be? What is your personal legacy? And in the book, I ask you to
envision what 2050 could look like if we get it right. How amazing could it be if we had rooftop gardens
everywhere and mass transit powered by clean energy and we put equity at the center of design and
how we connect with each other? What could it be like? And then, I ask you to go backwards and start
thinking about who in your life, maybe someone you didn’t even know, it doesn’t have to be a family
member or could be a mentor, who created an incredible opportunity for you that made the life you’re
living now possible? It could be someone who made a medical advancement. It could be someone who
created a right for you to get married, a right for you to vote. The reality is there are people that didn’t
even know us in previous generations that wanted our life to be better. They intentionally thought of us.
And then, I ask you in the book, as part of this exercise, to fast forward after you reflected on someone
who’s changed your life, it’s 2050 and you’re meeting with a teenager and you’re the ancestor, what are
they going to thank you for? What are they going to wish you had known? And I think that’s an
important entry point when we’re talking about climate action is for people to think about this
intergenerational value and this idea of thinking beyond your age.
Jen: It’s really powerful to think back that there are rights that we have or things that we have access to
now or the world is a certain way positive for positive reasons because of somebody’s actions in the past
or a group of people’s actions in the past. I just think that that’s so powerful and we don’t walk around
in our daily lives thinking about that. When we go through our daily lives and it is somewhat easy to live
in this world, I say somewhat very intentionally, but there are a lot of things they’re afforded to us today
because of actions that other people took, but we don’t think about that as we move through our lives
on a day-to-day basis, unfortunately. Maybe we should think about it more often.
Heather: And that’s one of the things that I try to instill with the organization too. This idea of trying to
be more intentional and thinking about our legacy, and actually, it’s not just a feel-good exercise, there
is social science to back this up. And in Japan, there’s a movement called the Future Design movement
where members of municipalities as part of their strategic planning exercise have people roleplay as
future generations when they’re coming up with their long-term vision, and more and more we’re
seeing this as an approach to thinking about how we plan for the future, and I think that’s really
important, and one of the things that in your work that really inspires me, Jen, is this idea of human
sustainability and when we think about ESG, making sure that the S, the social part of the ESG, considers
mental health and well-being.
Jen: Absolutely.
Heather: And I think that that’s essential, not only in making sure people have fulfillment and fulfilled
lives, but that’s the way we’re going to get these climate solutions to happen at scale.
Jen: Oh, you are singing my song. I want to shout that from the rooftops because if we don’t have wellhumans, so much of this isn’t possible, but if we do have well-humans, there’s almost nothing that we
can’t accomplish and I believe that in my heart. So, human sustainability has to be at the core of this. So,
thank you for bringing that up.
Heather: It absolutely does, and it’s actually something that I do refer to that might be helpful for folks
to put this idea of climate anxiety and eco-anxiety, other terms are climate grief or solastalgia, keep that
and put that in context. So, one of the things I write about, and I found through my research, is what I
call the eco-anxiety trifecta, and these are the three factors that contribute to what I am calling an
epidemic that we aren’t really talking about. And the first is actually anxiety. So, Gen Z has such high
rates of anxiety that the Surgeon General has issued a warning about it, and that it’s one of the most
significant health crises that we’ve seen in young people for decades. Some of that related to the
pandemic, some of that related to destigmatizing mental health, but most mental health professionals
are saying that we really are in a crisis with just anxiety. The second is chronic loneliness and, Jen, I know
you know all about chronic loneliness, but in a recent survey, 6 out of 10 baby boomers said they
experienced chronic loneliness and 8 out of 10 Gen Xers experienced chronic loneliness. So, young
people today are lonelier than the elderly. And then, the third is the hyperawareness of the climate
crisis, and I think this is important, Jen, because a lot of times when we’re talking about young people,
we talk about social media, and understandably, we talk about our concerns about addiction and the
negativity and we talk about body image and bullying, but the reality is for this generation, they are
hyperaware of the pain and suffering of the climate emergency because they’re sharing in real time. The
flooding in Pakistan, wildfires, and the skies turning orange in San Francisco, drought in Kenya, they see
in real time from other young people and they’re really worried. So, as we’re putting the context of
social in ESG, environmental, social, and governance, we need to understand that the mental health and
well-being is not ‘soft.’ It is absolutely critical as we create this better, positive, more regenerative vision
for the future.
Jen: So well said. I feel like we could have an entire conversation just about that, and just there’s so
much more that needs to be said and done there, but we’re talking about it and that’s a good first step
and I agree with you and applaud our current Surgeon General in so many ways on his focus related to
loneliness, mental health, and now well-being in the workplace and the impact that work is having on
our mental health and well-being and the engines, the positive engines, that workplaces can be for
things like mental health and well-being, but also climate change sustainability. All of that is within his
framework, and so, I really applaud him for doing that. I’m a big fan of his. We went to high school
together.
Heather: Oh, that is so fabulous. This idea of balance, this idea of contributing to a better society, this
idea of using influence and power and capital to make change and help others and put compassion at
the center is what young people expect now.
Jen: It absolutely is and I am in that Gen X generation, but I 100% wholeheartedly agree with them.
Heather: Yes and I think there’s an opportunity to learn. And when I talk about this idea of think beyond
your age and be an awesome ancestor in the context of climate, climate anxiety, and climate action, one
of the things I do is, I have a discussion guide that’s available with the nonprofit One Green Thing, but
one of the things I try to do is not only create space for older generations to listen to young people
about their anxiety about the future, but also to make sure that we share stories intentionally of
resilience, resilience we’ve seen in our families and our communities that we’ve seen globally. We have
seen significant changes for the better in our lifetime, and talking about that, even though there’s so
much still to be done. I think that’s important, so it’s not a sense of false hope, but making sure young
people know that we’ve seen the big changes and we forget to share those stories with them.
Jen: We do and I am a big advocate for the power of hope, real hope, right? pointing to those things that
are actual fact, right? But that can help us be more hopeful, because a lot about the world right now is
doom and gloom, and understandably, but we do have to search for and share those stories and those
moments that can bring us hope, because that’s what spurs continued action in my mind. So, I wear a
bracelet around my wrist that actually says ‘hope,’ it is on my wrist 24 hours a day.
Heather: Jen, I love that. I love it, that’s so powerful and that also is at the root of this book and this
mission to tackle eco anxiety. The reality is we have all the climate solutions we need. We even have the
money, we need to distribute it to the global self, so they can implement these solutions. But we have
the money. What is missing is the political will and that only shifts when we all take action.
Jen: Agreed, agreed. So, one thing I want to shift back to in your book because I love superpowers. And
you talk about service superpower. I know you touched on this a little bit when it comes to service, but
can you dive a little bit more deeply into that just because I love this concept?
Heather: Oh, thank you Jen and I think when I was coming up with this assessment, I tried to figure out
what was the right way for people to see themselves in climate action and I decided to call the
archetypes service superpowers because how you show up for others is unique and so important for us
to create that healthier, greener, more equitable future that we can do. And so, the sage, the beacon,
the wonk, these different profiles, I call your service superpower and the way that you activate it is
through this daily practice, in a way that works for you. So if you’re a beacon, you may want to join the
kids at the climate strike. You may want to help plan a lobby day. If you’re a wonk, you may want to
share articles about how you can get community solar in your neighborhood. If you are a sage, you
might want to have an intergenerational conversation in your faith community about how important it is
for us all to get involved. Or you may want to meditate outside or share a poem that’s meaningful for
you. The idea is we all have a way that we show up and show our love for others that’s unique and
different, and we need to unlock that creativity and that service mentality to create the better vision of
the future.
Jen: And the way you bring that to life is your superpower.
Heather: Yes, exactly, exactly because you know it’s fun. So, the idea of the superpower is that we are
the hero. We’re all the heroes, the earth needs right now and our future of loved ones, the people we
haven’t met yet that are going to hold us accountable and hopefully will thank us for the actions that we
took starting with that first small step.
Jen: Yeah, yeah. So let’s talk about the role of organizations and workplaces in the fight against climate
change. What do you believe? The role? Can be? Should be? Needs to be? And all of this.
Heather: I think the role of work is a powerful one because it is a powerful community that you have. I
think there’s opportunities within your teams to think of your service superpowers and how you can
connect with each other and how you can work towards more sustainability. When it comes to climate
denial, the fact is that the vast majority of Americans know that climate change is real and they believe
the science. The vast majority, more than 80%. When it comes to young people, across party lines,
young people know that climate change is the number one issue that they’re facing and they see the
intersectionality of climate change, as it relates to racial justice, economic justice, healthcare, you name
it. But climate is the spear point of what they’re focused on, so I think that when it comes to climate
denialism, I think the important is you just keep saying the truth and take action. But I wouldn’t worry
too much about convincing people who don’t agree. I would for folks who don’t believe it’s real, you can
start talking about legacy and what do you think that we are. What are we leaving the next generation?
And encourage them to talk to young people.
Jen: Yeah, I love that, you know, especially thinking about the workplace and organizations as a
community. I really like that concept, so I have a question here that I was going to ask you that says how
can parents talk to their kids about climate change and encourage sustainable behaviors, but I feel like I
need to switch that around and say, how can kids talk to their parents about climate change and
encourage sustainable behaviors?
Heather: Jen, I wish you could see the smile on my face right now. That’s exactly right. There are
resources out there about parents talking to their kids, but kids already know, they already know, and so
for kids, at these family conversations around the dinner table if there’s holidays, gatherings, that you’re
together, ask to be heard and share how you feel and I do have this discussion guide where you can ask
what have you seen? What changes have you seen in your life? Tell me about a story of resilience in our
family or in our community? And I need you to know that I think it’s very important, this is a kid talking, I
think it’s very important for you to commit to me to take action every day towards a better future. And
you know what I think, Jen? I think the more kids have these intentional conversation with older
generations, I kind of see it as the antismoking campaign, if you’re a Gen Xer, you may remember, but I
vividly remember in the fourth grade, a nurse came in with a smoker’s lung and a healthy lung, an actual
lung. And I talked to my grandparents, when I saw that and said you need to stop smoking, and they did.
Jen, they did. Now, I’m sure there were other factors like their doctors telling them to do that. But there
was also a culture shift because more of their friends were quitting. But there is a power in young
people being heard and so and taking up that space. And we’re seeing more and more of them having a
seat at the table, the United Nations has a new program where they’re not only inviting young people
into ‘listen’, but actually have them at the table and even supporting them directly as fellows to be part
of the solution. But yes, kids need to talk to their parents about climate change and parents and
grandparents need to ask the young people they love about how they feel about the future and it’s a
game changing conversation.
Jen: I love that, I love that. So Heather, I’m going to end by asking you what are the small actions that
you personally take on a daily basis to fight climate change and maybe I’ll add on to that to say and what
feedback do you get from your kids on it?
Heather: Great question. The first and this is the least sexy climate solution you will ever hear, Jen and it
happened here right now, menu planning. We plan out our meals to try to reduce food waste and food
waste globally contributes 8% of carbon emissions. So like being mindful of your food and that way
planning for your meals and how you’re going to use leftovers is really powerful. My kids, we have what
we call ‘offend night’, we everyone fends for themselves, where we have to use leftovers and I think
they think it’s fun. But I’ll get that feedback later (laughter) they have this, that’s the first thing. The
second thing is I buy carbon offsets when I travel and you just need to dig a little bit to make sure that
you’re getting reports back about how your money is being invested, but that’s something that I
appreciate because obviously air travel is part of what I need to do with my work. The third thing I do is
compost and I’m the worst gardener. The world’s worst gardener. But I love composting, even though
it’s frozen right now here in Montana, but that gives me a lot of joy. The other thing I do is I try to walk
as much as I can instead of ride my bike. And then the other thing that I do is try to get outside every
day, even if it’s - 8 degrees, which often it is here in Montana… (laughter).
Jen: You’re welcome here in Miami, anytime Heather.
Heather: Thank you Jen, Oh my gosh, I love Miami.
Jen: You need to thaw out.
Heather: And one of my favorite quotes comes from the author Anne Lamott, and she says go outside,
look up, secret to life.
Jen: Love it. Well, Heather, thank you so much for being on the show today. I learned so much. This was
such an engaging conversation. I love the topic. It’s a topic we haven’t had before and I know, so many
people are going to get a lot out of it.
Heather: Thank you so much for the opportunity and I’m not going to say so much again, thank you Jen
for the opportunity and for your wonderful work. It inspires so many people and keep doing what you’re
doing, well-being needs to be at the center of our family conversations, of our work conversations and
our vision for the future.
Jen: I’m so grateful Heather could be with us today to talk about climate change and its impact on our
mental health.
Thank you to our producers Rivet 360 and our listeners. You can find the WorkWell podcast series on
deloitte.com or you can visit various podcatchers using the keyword WorkWell, all one word, to hear
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The information, opinions, and recommendations expressed by guests on this Deloitte podcast series
are for general information and should not be considered as specific advice or services.