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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Diana ep9 (00:00)
loving and caring about the people who are in your community and in your neighborhood is a revolutionary act. And it is the counter strategy to isolationism, fear, and threat,
Chris Bevolo (00:19)
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome everyone to episode nine of the I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today Show, a controversial, culture savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world. I mean, I don't know if he's gone sideways and sideways the other way. And since the last time we recorded, I mean, we're at war now. I can't keep up. Which is which is why we're here because we're going to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, including that and a whole bunch of other stuff, all rooted in history, little culture, a little humor.
Blue Group Therapy and little humility. I am your cohost, Chris Beveleaux, owner of Bearing 287, an organization fighting the good fight to make the world a better place for all, and the sponsor of the show. I'm joined as always by my cohost, Dez, who is a social impact comm strategist by day and spends her night remixing history to make sense of the present. Hi, Dez.
Desiree ep9 (01:13)
What timeline are we on? What's happening? It feels like every day there's like a new, just my, my God, like, ugh. But hi, I'm here.
Chris Bevolo (01:24)
You're sure. We'll get into timelines later. I wish there was like a way you could just like see all the timelines and go, yeah, yeah, no, I don't like this one going back. Maybe our guest has that solution and we don't know it because we are super excited to have our first guest on the pod, Diana Rhodes. Diana is based in Washington, DC and is a nonprofit leader, longtime organizer, reproductive justice and harm reduction advocate and mutual aid supporter.
She leads a national organization that works on reproductive and sexual health and rights advocacy and education, and is the board chair of a DC based harm reduction organization. She is here to help us figure out which timeline we want to be in and give her perspective on what it means to show up when the world has gone just jackass sideways, leveraging her long experience as an organizer and advocate. Diana, welcome.
Diana ep9 (02:18)
Hi, I'm really glad to be here and only slightly nervous to be your first guest. So thank you for the honor slash pressure.
Desiree ep9 (02:22)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (02:25)
Nothing to be nervous about, no pressure at all. And we're gonna give you a chance to kind of talk a little bit more about yourself in a second. We've got a lot in front of us, so I don't wanna get into it yet, but I am interested in how you and Des came to know each other because that's how you come to the show. And also, Des has let me know that you're a huge fan of Andor. And I know we're gonna talk about Andor later because it actually is.
apropos of the world gone sideways that we face now. But tell us a little about how you two met and a little about who you are.
Diana ep9 (02:59)
Yeah. So again, I'm Diana. I live in Washington, DC. So for those who are watching, you can see my shirt right there. But I'm originally from Las Vegas. as you said in your intro, I lead a national organization on reproductive justice. I also do work in harm reduction. I've also spent the last couple of decades organizing and facilitating arts and music spaces. So really my passions have already, have always been around.
facilitating and creating intentional spaces for social justice, but also for creativity and self-expression. So I've been organizing in different forms for a very long time, long enough to see a few cycles of backlash, which I think we're going to get into. But more importantly, how do I know Des? Des and I go way back, way, back. We met in Vegas in our early 20s. We were wee babies back then.
Desiree ep9 (03:51)
incredibly early 20s.
Diana ep9 (03:55)
incredibly like those early 20s. ⁓ We were both doing feminist and queer activist and community building work, very scrappy DIY figuring it out energy ⁓ as you do in your early 20s. ⁓ And it's been many, many years since then. And I'm just, it's been really beautiful to not just keep our friendship, but to stay in conversation about our relationships, our friendships, our projects, our careers.
to watch each other grow while still caring about the same core things. And now getting to be on this podcast with you all and chat more is just really exciting. So yeah.
Desiree ep9 (04:35)
And actually one of the first events you did, ⁓ was Ladyfest your first event ever?
Diana ep9 (04:42)
It was my first big festival, yeah. Yeah.
Desiree ep9 (04:44)
been. Yeah, and that
was my first event that I attended when I moved to Las Vegas. just, a friend of mine was connected to the university and I happened to tag along with her and that's where we first met but we became friends a little bit later in the actual activist space. So yeah, been following Diana and going to all of her events for like almost 20 years.
Chris Bevolo (05:08)
Well, I feel like any cl- ⁓
Diana ep9 (05:09)
Yeah, wasn't an actual
number, but yeah, it's been 20 years.
Chris Bevolo (05:14)
You did a good job. Des blew that up. I have to clarify something though. You said you shared core values and I know you're a fan of Andor and Des is off speculative fiction, which every time I hear that, I feel like that's redundant phrase, but how is it possible that you two are friends and one adores Andor, which is of course the right point of view and the other one doesn't, which is of course the ⁓ incorrect point of view.
Diana ep9 (05:41)
Yeah, this is a very important subject to bring up. And, you know, we'll probably have to discuss this further, and really kind of nail out, hammer out our core values. But yes, almost everything except I love me some fantasy and sci-fi. It's just not Des's thing. But I also like animated worlds. I just really appreciate world building as a literary and creative medium. ⁓ I don't see it as escapism. I see it
as an opportunity to grow and stretch and imagine different worlds. I think for the topic of this conversation, I often think about when someone builds an entirely new universe with its own rules, its own power structures, moral codes, histories, you're really forced to ask different questions about what makes something just, who gets to belong, what is power protecting, what is it afraid of?
I don't know, kind of, I just think that sometimes entrenching ourselves in fantasy or futuristic worlds actually helps you see your own world more clearly. Like when you strip away the familiar, like the flags and the parties, the institutions, you're just looking at an empire or a rebellion or like a collapsing planet. And all of those dynamics just become more obvious. ⁓
We see like the nuances of good and evil and we see how ordinary people get pulled into harmful systems. We see how collectivism works and how survival depends on cooperation and working together and being with each other. we see how difference is treated, whether it's feared or valued. ⁓ just honestly think that world building can be deeply political, even if it's just also entertaining.
It's asking if we can design a world from scratch, what we keep, what we change. It's not really a scapegoat. It's kind of like rehearsal for a world we want to build or a world we want to avoid. But I don't know. I feel like it just helps us imagine something different while seeing and having a microscope on our own lives and societies much more clearly. Plus it's entertaining as hell and super fun.
Chris Bevolo (08:05)
There you
go. There you go. Des, what's your response to all that?
Desiree ep9 (08:06)
⁓
Diana ep9 (08:09)
So, Daz, what do you think?
Desiree ep9 (08:11)
Okay, like when you wax poetic about it, like I feel like just a total like weirdo. Not like giving into that. But I think you hit something about like ⁓ avoiding. And like, for me, I think it's like suspending, like belief when I, I don't know, I guess when I live in a world where it feels like I just constantly can't believe like what we're
doing or experiencing. Like, I don't know that I want to like add into that, but I could see where it could actually relieve some of that and give you more. I'm slowly getting into more of it in my later years. So yeah, I mean, I've seen you guys like get into your comic books and like nerd out on Doctor Who and like, like you had like a whole Doctor Who party that I was, I didn't even think I went because I was like, what are you talking about? But
Alright, I'll... Fine. I'll try to, I'll give it more of a shot. think for me, it's more about the like, the story and like, I think some early sci-fi, the way they talked about things, I mean, framed it, I'm out. It just loses me. But to y'all's point, it has gotten better.
Chris Bevolo (09:28)
The mainframe who hurt you does who hurt you
Desiree ep9 (09:33)
those script writers did.
Chris Bevolo (09:35)
Well, we can get into this more later on, ⁓ but I love how you set all that up, Diana. And what I will tell you, Des, is you have to watch Andor. I'm saying this for the 18th time. And the trick is you're going to have to deal with some just typical Star Wars, though probably the best done Star Wars, to be honest, to get to the part that is really, really telling a narrative about the world we're in right now, to be fair.
So give it some time to get to that. Don't give up just because of a couple of like the bank heist segment where there's a whole series of episodes that are just like a bank heist. It's still amazing, but trust us on that. Okay, let's get into this because Diana, you're here for a reason, not just because you're cool and you have all this great experience, but we have talked about ⁓ different ways to get involved, right? So I started my company,
This monsters this just in October because I wanted to fight the good fight and doesn't I always talk about well What does that even mean? You know having a podcast that's not really I'm just yapping. I write a lot. I'm just writing What can we do so we talked that we had an episode about running for office? as an example and so we wanted to talk about organizing and protests and know that you have experience with that and you know, it's
It just is so frustrating to me. I'm gonna go on my little diatribe here to set things up and then I'm gonna really let you guys talk because you are the one. Well, you guys started in your very early, early 20s with this. I was working at a store called Drugtown. That's a real name of a store. Every time I tell people that, they think I'm making it up. So that's where I was in my early 20s. So we need to listen to you too, but I can certainly vent the frustration that I think.
many of us feel, right? Because when we started this podcast and the name, you know, I'm not even supposed to be here today and allusion to clerks, which is like, God, you know, I'm not even supposed to be dealing with this right now. And the list of things that we continually face is insane. It's really insane. I don't know if it's unprecedented. I think the late sixties had a lot go on, but this is
pretty, pretty close. And we did not sign up for this. We're just minding our own business, trying to live our lives. And now we have state sanctioned chaos. have the federal government posting misinformation and Nazi messaging on a daily basis. ⁓ We have people living in parallel realities in terms of their exposure to the federal government and budget cuts or ICE.
We have the president threatening to take over our elections. I'm in Minneapolis, as many of you know. We continue to be assaulted by federal agents to this day. They're supposed to leave winding down. No, that's not really taking place. Maybe it has to a degree, but they're not gone. And last week, was it just last week? We heard from the brain trust of JD Vance and Dr. Oz that because we've been so bad in Minnesota with our
Desiree ep9 (12:36)
Thank
Chris Bevolo (12:57)
fraud that they're going to cut or halt millions in Medicaid funding, I guess to teach us a lesson. Like, I'm sorry. There are choice words I'd like to say right now to them. I'll hold them for later. ⁓ by the way, we attacked Iran this weekend if you were living on a rock. So we got that going for us, which is nice. So coming from Minnesota and Minneapolis, we've had a lot of protests here.
Desiree ep9 (13:12)
Thank
Chris Bevolo (13:24)
Right? We've had it. had a big one. I think it was on the 25th or 6th, the day before Alex Pratty was murdered. We had tens of thousands of people. There were protests the week after that. we had protests every single day in Minneapolis at the Whipple Federal Building where people are held. And so lots of protesting. And yet here we are facing a lot of feedback on whether protests are
worthwhile. And I'm going to pick on my Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, Scott Galloway, who I swear every time I hear him, he says something that makes me want to just run screaming to the woods and then other times like his, his, his boycott that he's putting on now is actually well intentioned and effective. ⁓ But he was at his worst in an interview with Timothy, Timothy Snyder who
wrote a book called On Tyranny, which is fantastic, by the way. he was, Scott was just kind of smug and privileged, which he often is, and he's talking straight out of his ass. And he asked him, like, so is protesting just a new, his former door knocking, it's, you know, not effective at all. Thankfully, not surprising, he kind of pushed back and said, no, not at all, actually, it has a lot of value. And to his credit, this is why I can't just.
throw Scott Galloway in the dumpster and shut the door and lock it and go away forever. He acknowledged like, ⁓ I think I had it wrong. And I've learned, which he does from time to time. So I don't know. He's just like a project. You have to just watch real time evolve into a full human being sometimes, I think. So we've got that. But I think, you know, we have the no Kings march coming up. And my wife and I were having this conversation.
And I'm like, I need to do more. want to go to that. And she's like, Oh, I don't think I'm going to go. Now this is my wife flew to DC following Trump's first inauguration for the, um, Oh gosh, what was it called? The women's march. It had a different name and I'm going to butcher it. Uh, so I'm not going to try. She flew to DC for that. Uh, she is a trauma therapist who works with people that have suffered incredible trauma.
⁓ from mass shootings, for example. She works with plenty of people that have been affected by ICE, have been affected by Medicaid cuts. And she's like, you know, I'm just kind of worn out from the protest thing. I'm doing enough otherwise, which she clearly is, right? So there is no right answer to this, I guess is my point. But this is where I would love to turn it over to you two to just kind of like...
get into this a little bit. don't know if either of want to weigh in before it does, you start kind of going backwards in time to how we get here. But this is a nuanced conversation about protests and hearing from somebody who is a professional organizer, I think will be super helpful. So that's my, that's my contribution to this podcast. And then I will play along as we go and ask the questions of the, as if I were the audience, because I really don't have any experience with this whatsoever.
Desiree ep9 (16:44)
And I'm pretty sure Diana has perspective given that like all the major protests are come directly to her city, like almost every day. ⁓ but yeah, it's interesting position.
Diana ep9 (16:57)
Yeah,
I can jump in and thanks for setting that up. I think it helps create a little bit of context. I mean, I have a few thoughts. So one, like I don't think it's dramatic to say that we're in an authoritarian moment. I think it's pretty accurate, right? And...
I think what makes it dangerous isn't just the loud chaos, which I think we feel, right? We are feeling it in our bodies, this chaos, the current news cycle, but it's also the normalization. We're like living in this like slow normalization phase of authoritarianism. ⁓ It doesn't arrive, authoritarianism doesn't just arrive, let's go back to sci-fi in a spaceship, but it arrives in small administrative decisions.
one of those decisions is around Medicaid that you just mentioned earlier or others, right? And I'm gonna keep going back to Andor, but it brings me back to thinking about Andor. So Chris, you can get this one. But something was said in that show from the empire side. And it's been a while since I've seen it, but they said, now we just have to wait for the right person to do wrong thing. And that's the moment we're in right now in this country.
Chris Bevolo (18:07)
Thank
Diana ep9 (18:12)
We know that this administration wants to have ultimate power. And one way we're seeing it is through the administration declaring quote, national emergencies, state emergencies, right? And I'm gonna reference what happened here in DC. And then we saw a trickle effect across the country and in your home state of Minnesota, Chris, but one of those moments in real time was a Doge staffer got jumped by teenagers in DC one weekend.
Right? ⁓ If folks don't remember his ⁓ nickname was Big Balls. So a 19 year old employee who a Doge staffer gets jumped by a few teenagers in DC. And because he was a Doge staffer, it got to the president's ear and it was the perfect opportunity for Trump to declare DC dangerous and declare an emergency, which gave him the power to call in the National Guard.
and almost every other federal troops into the city. And they're still here. We have just as you said, Chris, like in Minnesota, we still have the National Guard patrolling our streets. And for a while we had the FBI, the Secret Service, other federal agents patrolling our streets, right? And that was a test. what exactly bringing it back to Andor, they were just waiting for the right person to do the wrong thing, right?
So they can make their move. ⁓ And when I was watching the second season of Andorra, was like, my God, it's happening right now in real time. I just saw the president do that. Right. And that's what we're seeing. They're declaring emergencies so they can use a different part of the law. Right. Because they can't do certain things legally, but if they declare national emergencies, it gives them more power. And that's what this government's about. So that's one thing that comes to mind.
Desiree ep9 (19:51)
.
you
Diana ep9 (20:10)
⁓ But as far as protest and even the effectiveness goes, I just also want to like take us back to protest or direct action like the Women's March, like the No Kings Rally. It's not a strategy, it's a tactic, right? A strategy, it's one tactic in a bigger strategy. And so I think, you know, for a lot of us, it's easy for us to sit and be like,
Is this protest effective? Is it actually working? I don't see a change, but we're not the ones on the ground doing the organizing that is building out a strategy in which we are building momentum to a certain goal. ⁓ And that's what organizing is. ⁓ That's the bigger picture and the on the ground work. And a protest is one piece in that entire puzzle. And what it does is it builds momentum and momentum is the metric. It's not the goal, right? ⁓ And so I think
you know, it's a I always find it's important to kind of step back from that because I don't know, we're in the era of like hot takes. Everyone likes to have a hot take, you know, and ⁓ immediately like I went there and the thing hasn't changed. The policy has not changed. So therefore it didn't work. And what's the point of it all? And I don't know, that's that's not that's not not the point. Right. ⁓ And so I think, you know, just kind of keeping that in mind that
It is a tactic, not a strategy, protest or rallies. And honestly, you know, so two more things, honestly, sometimes just like being around other people who care about the same thing you do, that's what solidarity is. And that you feel it in your body. There's a reason why people gather and there's a reason why rallies and protests speak to people, especially people who aren't engaged every day.
because they feel isolated. And protests and rallies and these gatherings give us an opportunity to not feel isolated. Authoritarianism and fascism feeds off of our isolation and fear. And the more we can come together, that builds momentum, right? ⁓ And so, yeah, I'll pause there, but those are some initial thoughts. I don't know, Des, you have anything to add there?
Desiree ep9 (22:30)
No, I love that you bring that up of kind of like the twofold, ⁓ like things that those kinds of organizing provide. So it's like, it's a tactic and that we don't need to know
you know, all of the inner workings were so, and perhaps maybe because we're so used to being because of like cable news, like the 24 hour news cycle. Like, why don't we know this? It's like, well, if we knew this, then the other people would know what we're doing, what we're trying to plan here. And that it's not up to us. I think for me, like, I always kind of think when there's something going on, if I haven't heard any kind of like red flag from Diana, then I feel like somebody's working on it. Cause I feel like she has a pulse of like at least like, yeah.
Or sometimes I'll ask you, like, are there people meeting in a room about this? And that other piece about ⁓ bringing folks together. And as much as I, cause I kind of struggle with, do I want to go to this protest? And I think you and I talked about this before, Diana, about like, hey, had this been like maybe 10 years ago, then yeah, like all ablaze about it. But now,
kind of in this different part of our lives, part of understanding the system, that there isn't that call. Or perhaps if you've been in this kind of space and maybe you already kind of have folks that you're connected to that there isn't as much isolation.
⁓ Around this but i could see where all of our little our algorithms you know everything that we see is like super Taylor to us and in a way it does even though like we're supposed to be more connected to one another. In a way we do feel a bit more disconnected because this digital connection isn't even real and so much of it is we're not even really seeing each other's experiences thoughts and photos because it's just a bunch of you know to Chris's two-cent nation.
a bunch of people who declared themselves a strategist that are giving their hot take on what's going on. So we don't even really kind of get that experience of, you know, ⁓ the personal and the interpersonal. ⁓ But that's definitely what I've been kind of wrestling with, just my own personal feeling like friends that are just out there in the streets. Anytime I talk to them, they're like, did you protest? Did you go to this? And then I have to like sit with my answer of
Chris Bevolo (24:45)
.
Desiree ep9 (25:00)
No, I didn't. And that's okay. But sometimes I even feel like it's okay.
Diana ep9 (25:06)
Yeah.
Movements are ecosystems and not everyone is meant to be loud. There's a really great map, I think it's called the social change ecosystem map or some version of those words. ⁓ But it has this map of like the various different roles. ⁓ There are healers, there are caretakers, there are disruptors, there are facilitators, there are direct first responders, ⁓ there are, you know,
Chris Bevolo (25:20)
Mm-hmm.
Diana ep9 (25:39)
communicators, there are storytellers, there are artists, right? We all have a different role to play in creating social change. You don't have to be everything and you don't have to be the loud one. You just try to be something that you feel comfortable being, right? ⁓ And I think that's really important. And I work in an organization that trains young people to be activists. We work with youth activists who are just kind of getting involved. And something I always say is like, you know,
We sometimes focus on the person giving the speech or on the megaphone, ⁓ but there are so many other roles to be played. I did a workshop years ago on like the power of quiet. And it was like an activism workshop for introverts, right? And just recognizing that we all have a role to play, right? And it doesn't all have to be the same thing. We just also live in a society that ⁓ favors extroverts that
Chris Bevolo (26:27)
Hmm.
Diana ep9 (26:38)
favors and uplifts the loud and also favors and uplifts a central figurehead. Movements are decentralized. Movements have multiple people working together. But we as a society always want to focus on the one and then like, and be able to have that
kind of loud focused leader or whatever it is. ⁓ And so I think giving ourselves some grace in this moment where
allowed to be angry and exhausted and still go to dinner with our friends, right? Like, ⁓ just staying human and connected is part of the resistance. It is resistance. And I think we need to give ourselves permission to connect and get involved in different ways and whatever makes us feel comfortable. ⁓ And unfortunately, you know,
Desiree ep9 (27:10)
Okay. Thank
Diana ep9 (27:30)
Social media can feel as a saturation point and hot takes can feel like a saturation point and it can make you feel like you're not doing enough when you probably are.
Desiree ep9 (27:41)
You're something that really makes sense for you, but Chris, what are your thoughts before we head into like how we got here?
Chris Bevolo (27:42)
Yeah.
Well, I think the idea that it just puts you in a place where you have other people and you have that support. Timothy Snyder, two of his responses really resonated with me. One of them was that, just like it makes you feel better. You're around people that have like views and that can uplift you. And then also the idea that when you go to a protest,
you're likely to be exposed to more of what we're talking about, the organization behind it, the different roles that there are that you may not even realize exist. So you may think, I'm just there to walk, but you may be more attracted to be somebody who's going to deliver food or somebody who's going to stake out a corner or somebody who's going to help with the communications, whatever you see and become more active just by going or that's.
it's more likely and I feel that personally because I'm old and as you get older, as you too will realize as you get older, the idea of going to a R &B party at First Avenue on a Saturday afternoon sounds really good when you buy the ticket and then when that Saturday comes around, you're like, oh my gosh, am I gonna go downtown? That just sounds so far away, I'm out in the suburbs, blah, blah, blah.
you think all the stuff is good and then you're like, it's too much. But when you go, I always feel like, thank God I went, because that was amazing and that was fun and that's living life. I need to do more of that until I get back to my suburb and then I'm all tired again. But this is the same thing. You go out there and you actually live it and experience it and you're not gonna be able to replicate that just by watching on social media or watching on the news.
That's how, what I take from a lot of what you guys saying and some of the stuff I've read.
Desiree ep9 (29:43)
So that piece about living your life, that's essentially what all of this is about is that, we'll get into this a little bit later about the isolation piece. But Diana, when you and I were kind of talking about this, you brought up the idea that when you just see the headlines of like what's being taken away, what white rights have been stripped or what doesn't get funded.
rest assured that like, this stuff still does have to continue. And it does. And that people, always find a way. And I know you have like some really great context around like how that really shows up from a kind of a social services standpoint. So we'd love to kind of just hear your thinking around like just.
We continue, the work continues always, regardless of what chaos is out there that we're navigating on our way to get to.
Diana ep9 (30:41)
Yeah, definitely. think. ⁓
We were doing this before it was acceptable. We were doing this work before it was mainstream. We were doing this work before it was funded, before it was institutionalized, right? ⁓ be doing this work and building a career on advocacy and reproductive justice and LGBTQ health and rights and other public health issues, it...
pains me that I've seen so many steps back ⁓ in the way that I've seen I've been able to be a part of so many steps forward. But we also know that this is cyclical too, right? ⁓ And what grounds me is just, you know, it's so chaotic and it can feel so disheartening. But we also know that so many of that so so many of the rights that we may be losing or had ⁓ so many of the issues that
We care about this work has been going on for a long time. And so I think about this and like reproductive rights, LGBTQ harm reduction, like there were abortion funds arranging rides and covering procedures quietly for years, navigating hostile laws, ⁓ clinic closures, stigma long before like Roe v. fell. Even before it was overturned, access wasn't even real in huge parts of the country.
know, abortion funds existed. People were doing practical support and making sure they got the services they need before all of this was happening. And we will continue to do so, right? There were queer organizers building community centers, ⁓ connecting with each other, creating healthcare networks during the AIDS crisis, HIV crisis, when the federal government refused to act. And now they are refusing to act again. ⁓ folks were doing that work, right?
Desiree ep9 (32:13)
Thank
Diana ep9 (32:39)
⁓ there were harm reduction workers distributing supplies out of backpacks in fans, running underground syringe exchanges, training each other on how to reverse overdoses. ⁓ Back before funders and public health institutions wouldn't even touch the work, right? They wouldn't even say the words harm reduction. They wouldn't even ⁓ name ⁓ trans communities or gender affirming care, right?
And so I guess the through line is that the work was always happening. We have always existed. We have always taken care of each other. And so we were doing this before it was acceptable in the mainstream. And we are just going to have to keep doing it until it becomes until we are in a different moment. Right. I guess, you know, I've had these moments of ⁓
of flailing as we all do, you know, especially we've been doing this work for a while and, and you're kind of confronted with the, the changes that are happening. And, but you, think, you know, with age ⁓ and kind of with longevity, you kind of develop a different muscle and you learn how to adapt. You learn how to survive when there's lack of funding or there's lack of political will. ⁓
and you panic, but then I think a lot of seasoned organizers, the folks have been around for a while, take a breath. And we just take a breath and recognize that, you know, we've done this before, we've lived in this, it's been different, but, you know, we've had underground networks before, we've connected and make sure people have gotten services and care before. ⁓ And, you know,
We just have to continue to do so. There's this kind of quiet persistence and adaptability. know, like, I think we just, we panic at first and then we put our heads down and do the work and take care of our communities and we take care of us. And at the end of the day, the approval from government institutions and institutions writ large doesn't,
Chris Bevolo (34:35)
I'm to
Diana ep9 (34:53)
⁓ it doesn't make us, it doesn't, it doesn't make us real.
We don't need the approval of these institutions and government because we take care of us.
Desiree ep9 (35:04)
Okay.
Yeah, it's that when you're in, when you're already in community with people, like you, you're able to keep up and just keep doing the thing. ⁓ so often, especially these last, you know, couple of years, you know, what kind of gave me solace and in a way, like it feels a little bit frivolous, but also like, it's also what gives us our energy.
⁓ I think about friends of ours that were deep in the AIDS organizing and making sure that their fellow brothers were getting meds or getting something, getting taken care of, getting rides to the doctor, right? And to cope with that amount of the trauma of watching people essentially disappear or die right in front of you, how do you let off that steam?
they would go to epic parties, you know, to then give them energy to wake up the next morning and do this thing and see these things that like they should have never have had to have seen, you know, close up like that. And so I was thinking about the a couple of years ago when the this kind of reminds me of like, okay, to your point about like, we go back underground.
You know, these movements continue just because, you know, out there in the public, it's acting as if like, ⁓ like we've taken this down. It's like, no, like the movement, the party continues. And so I always reflect on like my love of house music and like kind of how we got there. And it started with, ⁓ anytime. I've noticed that there's always like that pendulum is always right there. So you can't even say like, ⁓ how did we get here? Honey, we're always on the cycle. We're going to be on this cycle.
newsflash, this is going to be our lives. Like ideally you do this work thinking, hoping that you'll get to that place of like, like finally we'll be, you don't, you don't. ⁓ In fact, I think one of my partner's favorite shows, HADES TOWN is about that very thing where like you, keep fighting because like that's what it takes. And so you see the rise of like black and brown joy and queer joy with the rise of disco music.
And it takes over the airwaves and those folks that don't see themselves in that, you you get angry and like, where's our rock and roll or da da da da da. And so then you get the, essentially the disco sucks, you know, rally, the backlash to all of these things, just like we've, we're seeing the backlash to all of this DEI and quote unquote woke stuff. Like, we got to tear it all down, but rest assured that, okay.
Yeah, you don't want to see it. You don't want to see it. like, okay, but we're going to keep this going. And it's just going to go underground. It's going to become house parties. We're going to continue to transition this music that then becomes, from disco, goes house music and techno. And then all of a sudden, when you look and you wake up today and you see one of the biggest and largest, fastest growing music genres and it's EDM.
And like in a way, like you kind of feel like, this isn't the raves of my day out in the woods, out in the desert. But it is, just, to me, that kind of warms my heart to know that we shall get through this and that who knows what beauty and what incredible, ⁓ a sense of self and life that can come out from like really shining and sharpening this, whatever this is that some pearl can be this.
Diana ep9 (38:15)
Mm-hmm.
Desiree ep9 (38:41)
pieces of sand that this pearl will rise down the line. We may not be alive to see it, but rest assured that this will continue. that's what always kind of gives me a sense of like, no, if, and again, it's, it's, feels frivolous to say this, you know, based off of like, you know, what Harriet Tubman did with the actual Nogon Robo. But it still just shows the power of community and like being there for each other. And then also like just,
Chris Bevolo (38:58)
Okay. you
Desiree ep9 (39:11)
living in joy and experiencing that. But I'm kind of curious, both of you, your thoughts on this idea of, you know, still kind of leaning into your art, you know, where you can fit in mutually, just being in community
and that as a, that as a example of resistance.
whoever has anything.
Chris Bevolo (39:35)
I
mean, the thing that resonates with me and all that is a conversation you and I had, I don't know when it was, last year, the year before. It was when the backlash against DEI, the dismantling of the DEI was really hitting clients that we worked with, both of us worked with at the time, health systems, where they were
they were being told they're gonna lose funding if they strip, then strip, you know, all these words, including women, like just the words are like, I think the list is like 700 words wrong, right? And I was just incensed and angry and of course at the effort to dismantle all of it, but also at the capitulation. So I was really like, why are these people standing up and they should stand up and blah, blah.
Desiree ep9 (40:04)
Thank
Chris Bevolo (40:30)
And Des, I remember you saying like, hey, you know, this is when sometimes people need to go underground with some of this stuff. And I was very adamant about like, well, if you, if you agree to take away DEI as a label, you're, you're giving them what they're asking for, which is the DEI is a bad thing. And I don't know, it came to a conversation where I took away and Des was very,
sophisticated and kind of hitting me across the head with this, which was like, it's easy for some of us to stand up, right? And say like, well, that's just wrong. Because we're not gonna get punished for that. But it's not easy for a lot of people. And I guess, so that was really helpful to me. Where I struggle now with some of this, Des, and this isn't cultural necessarily, is...
Yes, the efforts for DEI, we'll use as an example, will continue underground, we'll change the name, we'll change the wording, but we're still gonna keep the effort going. What I get so frustrated at are the people like me that should stand up, and I'm not saying that's me, I'm talking Gavin Newsom. So for example, somebody who's in a position of privilege to
be able to fight without repercussions, maybe as governor of California to be a little, but instead goes, it's just like, eh, you know, we need to be more normal culturally. That was why we lost the last election, right? You just, you're like, that's what frustrates me. Like I understand why the Trump administration is doing this, cause there are a bunch of assholes, right? And understand why some institutions, some of which I have a lot of respect for, for example,
are closing their gender affirming care for minors. And I have a 27 year old transgender daughter, right? Because they're threatened with losing billions of dollars, right? Like, what are you going to do? That's a very difficult situation. What I don't understand is the folks that could stand up and say something and don't. ⁓ And that's, in both those cases and others, that's what drives me bonkers. It gets me angry.
Desiree ep9 (42:42)
you
Chris Bevolo (42:53)
And so I don't know how to grapple with that. don't know what grace to give Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg when he said that, or go watch the Senator from New Jersey, what's his, Cory Booker, Cory Booker or who was the other person who did this? Gavin Newsom did it too. Ask him about Gaza, Hakeem Jeffries and watch them.
Desiree ep9 (43:00)
specifically.
Chris Bevolo (43:22)
spend five minutes gurgling bullshit without saying a damn thing. Like those are the people that could actually say something and they're not. And so that's the part I don't get. And I don't know how that's related to protests or organizing, but that's what I got from what you just said, Des. Like, what about those people? What the hell?
Desiree ep9 (43:45)
we can't be worried about those people and also there's no incentive for them to do so but I imagine Diana you have like you're ready to go on something like this.
Diana ep9 (43:57)
The people you mentioned Chris, was thinking and especially as you named, know, they're elected officials who
Okay. think any, whether it's an individual or ⁓ a person, an organization, institution, right now and always, but especially right now, you're kind of mapping out your risk management, your risk mitigation. You're kind of weighing the various different risks and what's important, right? ⁓ And ⁓ they're telling us what they care most about, which is getting elected and being centrist, right? Like,
and pandering to a certain population of people or institutions or companies that will help them continue to stay in office or reach higher offices, right? ⁓ I think they're telling us their values. In these statements, they're telling us what they care about and what they don't care about and who they care about. ⁓ As far as other, whether it's nonprofit organizations or advocacy groups, I know
in the positionality I have, I have done so many risk assessment, risk management, risk mitigation, like meetings and mapping out and, you know, all of these different things where you have to make some difficult decisions on, you know, we talked in the start about the kind of DEI funding and the executive orders and what is more important? Is it more important for us to
use this language or is it more important for the most marginalized people in our communities to get these services? And you have to weigh that. Or you also look at your positionality within kind of social movements. I think there are some organizations that are able to be more vocal on certain issues and some that just aren't. And that's what I think
social movements are based off of is us understanding where we all stand and where we can push and pull. There are some organizations that are able to be much more vocal and be much more radical in their language and some others can't, but those organizations are able to get into the doors that the radical groups aren't and they're all communicating with each other and that is what a strategy is, right? Like that is like, you know, what I think
Chris Bevolo (46:25)
Yes.
Diana ep9 (46:28)
we should be doing. We don't all have to be saying the same thing, but we're working towards the same goal and we have different positionalities in it, depending on our risk factors. You know, as ⁓ someone who leads a national organization with, ⁓ I'm constantly battling of like, okay, ⁓ at the end of the day, I want to protect my staff, ⁓ but I want our staff to be able to do the work that they want to do. And we have to be able to do that within our values. And so that is what
any individual. these politicians that you mentioned and should go back to and organizations and social movements, what are our values? And then making every single decision based off of that. ⁓ And I think especially for the politicians ⁓ who we're disappointed by, they're telling us their values. That's why we get angry.
Desiree ep9 (47:05)
Thank
And then that's where
Chris Bevolo (47:21)
That's fair.
Desiree ep9 (47:21)
we make different decisions to, okay, we're going to get someone else to run that is actually more aligned with their values and put our backing behind them when we're super organized. But I get it. People do show us what their values are and then also what they're willing to fight against. Because if it's not something that you have to, then why would you put your neck out? ⁓ But I think that's really interesting where
you know, with what you're doing, Chris, and then what Scott Galloway is doing, where maybe that's the role that you all can play is like, talk to your brothers about ⁓ doing better or finding other ways. Because for other communities that are minoritized or, you know, have a marginalized existence, you know, we see it and then we say, okay, I know exactly who you are. And then we're not gonna like,
It's not going to help us to go to fight with that person publicly in that way. It's more of like, I see what this is at face value and then I can make decisions based off of that and enable to continue doing that thing. Then I'll keep in mind with, okay, what do you value? How can I tie this thing that I need to that value in order to get it done? Because at the end of the day, we always still have to play to someone else's ego or
of themselves or their work in order to get the thing done. mean, just like with you think about fundraising and development director, if the work of your organization is not in line with that funder that you're hoping to get money for them, like good luck, why would they give to something that is obviously not outlined on their sustainability site of what they're focused on and their values? ⁓ But I often think about this notion of
part of me, because it kind of is cultural in a way. I'm wondering this, this piece of this is something I ran across that was talking about that sense of identity and especially as an American and as a white American, what is that identity that kind of roots you? like whiteness is not an identity per se in this country, it is an identifier.
you know a category but it isn't actually an identity and how much of our sense of staying you know you know in the realm of like just kind of accepting things as they are in front of us but then continue to do that work internally has to do with being rooted in as a part of a community. You know the same way the simple things of like you know when I
walk into a room and I kind of spot either the Black folks or the queer folks just to kind of seem like, hey, I see you. Hi, we're in community. Even though I've never met that person before in my entire life, right? Or know Diana with you, when you meet another Vietnamese person, you're like, hey. But how much of that is like there's this sense of pride of the history and the heritage that we're able to channel.
that America has essentially asked white folks to give up. So like know Chris, you're Italian, right? How much do you kind of connect with that given just because you're in the US versus like if your family were still in Italy or maybe you do still have fun with family in the old country, right? How much of that are you able to draw from?
I know this is like super like not just hit me because it's something that I read earlier about just having that thing to like to connect with my partner. She's half Irish half Jewish and you know for her we're always talking about kind of her Irish heritage and like just kind of pulled like that being a life force in a way for her as it is for me as a black person. And I imagine Diana that shows up for you with other identities. I'm just I'm just
Curious and both of you can answer like you may not have an answer right away Chris, ⁓ but it just kind of sparked that that thought.
Chris Bevolo (51:40)
I do. I don't keep it brief because I'm going to hear from Diana. ⁓ I don't I mean, my Italian heritage is is is no connection at all. Now, my dad may be a little my grandfather, almost certainly, because he grew up in an Italian neighborhood in St. Louis. So almost certainly, you know, Italians were marginalized in the in when they came in the early 1900s, right? All the way probably through the 50s.
until they became white and then they were fine, right? But they were a completely separate subculture just like the Irish were. ⁓ And so I don't, none of that, that's gone. That's probably two generations gone. You know what my trite answer is, but it's probably correct and then I'll let Diana talk. It's sports, which is really sad. The only thing other than maybe like, but this is still more sports related, a connection to the people I went to school with, like the university I went to.
Desiree ep9 (52:10)
Allegedly.
Chris Bevolo (52:36)
That's really tied to sports though. Otherwise, it's you're a Vikings fan or you're a Iowa State Cyclone fan or whatever. I'm trying to think of what else there is. For me, I don't know what that is. And I don't think for most white people there is, there could be religion, 100%. I'm not religious. So I would assume that is probably the number one answer. It's just not for me.
Desiree ep9 (53:02)
Dianne, I'm curious your thoughts or take.
Diana ep9 (53:05)
Yeah, you know, I'm a Vietnamese American. I was born in the United States, but my family came over to the US after ⁓ the fall of Saigon. know, we've made my many, most of my family, many of my family are now here in this country and making a life for ourselves. And I, it's very my, it's deeply connected to kind of who I am and the communities I build. also you said something earlier, Des, of kind of like,
coming across other Vietnamese people, kind of might, you you acknowledge and there's a connection. And maybe like ⁓ common interests or subcultures or whatever that isn't the connection, but the history of how we came to be here on this land in this country is often shared. And those dynamics of our family, very cultural dynamics of our family, of our food, of our customs, of our traditions.
and of our challenges and our traumas, right, is shared. you know, I think ⁓ community is built on, you know, sometimes common experiences and then also of shared interests and like-mindedness, right? And Chris, you mentioned about sports, right? And so I feel like there's often
Desiree ep9 (54:14)
you
Diana ep9 (54:31)
a couple different ways that we kind of connect with one another. ⁓ sometimes it's our identities. And sometimes it's the subcultures and interests we have. And those are often just as important because those are things that we choose, right? ⁓ We choose these kind of underground, ⁓ you know, you were mentioning.
Desiree ep9 (54:37)
Thank you.
Diana ep9 (54:54)
house music and raves earlier, Des. We choose to be a part of these spaces because we like it, right? We choose to be Vikings fans because we like the Vikings. And then there's a community that's built in, or I don't know. I'm referencing the name of a team that you just mentioned.
Desiree ep9 (54:57)
So.
Chris Bevolo (55:02)
Yes,
Desiree ep9 (55:08)
of a sport.
Chris Bevolo (55:10)
we are sentenced to be Vikings fans, whether we like it or not. I didn't mean to cut you off.
Diana ep9 (55:17)
And then
that comes with the family trauma.
Chris Bevolo (55:20)
That's right.
Desiree ep9 (55:20)
You
Diana ep9 (55:23)
⁓ Yeah, I was destined to be a Cubs fan too. So there was destiny also in some of my sports things too. there's connection via interests and subcultures and cultures we belong to. And then there's connection via identity and our shared histories. And sometimes those look different and sometimes one are stronger than the other.
Desiree ep9 (55:43)
Yeah, I bring this up because this came from, I saw posts from the author and psychologist Dr. Dana E. Crawford, know, her page is CBRT for Everyone and she just kind of mentioned and talked about this. I got me thinking about like, so movies like The Brutalist and Every Everything Everywhere All at Once, those movies, those films and other stories like that are so powerful.
because it's connected to the shared experience. Those particular movies are connected to the shared experience of immigrant families in the US ⁓ that I feel like if you aren't necessarily a brown person, a black person, that you had to essentially kind of shake that with the term white and black and what have you. And so I'm wondering about,
If we're able to maybe, you know, folks actually go back to that heritage and have that to lean on or Diana, to your point of like, okay, well, if I don't have that or if there's it's been too many generations are moved and it feels weird to even like, try to claim this whole thing. then like, girl, you haven't talked about that in 30 years. Like, why are you doing that? You can still lean into as your point about like the communities that you subscribe to now. like, I Chris, you're a gamer.
Like so pushing sports aside, you're not even really subscribing to Vikings, it sounds like out of obligation. But almost in like maybe for every, know, folks listening, it's like maybe your knitting group, your gaming crew, you know, people that you throw events with, like maybe that is your place to kind of find yourself rooted in. That's outside of.
this ideology push that I feel like everything is like being subscribed to. ⁓ but like finding more, cause all of this essentially is about like us getting back to ourselves and each other. And so kind of getting at the, some of the, from our conversations before Diana, you kind of brought this up about essentially author authoritarianism is all about trying to isolate us all about finding different ways to say like, ⁓ y'all are different.
or you need to kind of just like be to yourself or what have you that so much of this is rooted in that and that so much of like what makes these other, ⁓ makes minor minority communities so powerful in that way is because like they have a sense of self within that. You whether like, you know, as a queer person, I'm like, I'm writing or dying for my people as a black person, what have you. I'm just kind of ⁓ curious around that. Like, how are you?
like really leaning into community to get through these moments.
Diana ep9 (58:41)
I mean, Daz, you said it right, authoritarianism thrives on isolation, right? It's not accidental. It's a strategy. ⁓ If you don't know your neighbors, if you don't know the people around you, you're easier to govern. And that's what they thrive off of. If we have fear for the people around us, if we are scared, if we have fear, we feel other people around us are threatening us, then we're all easier to govern.
And that's what authoritarianism is thriving on. ⁓ And so I think you're right. ⁓
Community, I feel like isolation is the strategy and then community is the counter strategy. And really community is love, right? It's connecting with one another and caring about one another. And connection can be boring, but it's actually revolutionary, right? This kind of ⁓ caring for one another and building community. And I think we've been talking about kind of like,
Desiree ep9 (59:37)
Thank
Diana ep9 (59:45)
rooting for our own community, having kind of interests and building community. But also I'm talking about like collective care and community care. What does that mean? Right. And that goes back to what we talked about earlier. And I mean, around mutual aid and practical support. And Chris, Minnesota has showed us what it means to do collective care. Right. And that in and of itself is what is the antidote to the authoritarianism. ⁓ I often, you know,
Desiree ep9 (59:48)
you
Diana ep9 (1:00:14)
think about how isolated we can be. Like you don't know your neighbors or you don't know what's going on down the street. then when decisions are being made or fear or violence is being sowed, you know, you don't necessarily feel like you might have incentive to do anything. Right. ⁓ So I think we need to move from community as far as people we know and
Desiree ep9 (1:00:38)
Thank you.
Diana ep9 (1:00:44)
⁓ people we connect with because of shared interests or other types of communities to ⁓
community based off of also caring about strangers, people you don't know, right? Our neighbors. And so I truly believe that collective care, community care, and getting to know the most, getting to know those around you at the most local level ⁓ is what builds power. And we go back to like, what is organizing? What is protest? It's building momentum. It's building a base, but it's also shifting power. That is the core of social change is power shifting, right?
Desiree ep9 (1:01:15)
you
Diana ep9 (1:01:23)
And if you get to know your neighbors and then your block and then the few blocks around you and then you're in a signal group or a WhatsApp channel, whatever it is, and are able to say, hey, there's some ICE agents on this corner and this corner and people can go out. And it's not because you know who lives on that corner. You just know that's the corner of your community and your neighbors, right?
And again, we saw this in Minnesota. We're seeing this across the country in Los Angeles and DC and various places where they have like employed troops to terrorize us. And they would thrive if we stopped caring about each other, even if we don't know each other. You may not know all these people in your neighborhood and your community, but it doesn't change the fact that they're kidnapping your neighbors and your community. And so I think the step further right now is, is, ⁓
building community even if you don't know everyone in it, right? That loving and caring about the people who are in your community and in your neighborhood is a revolutionary act. And it is the counter strategy to isolationism, fear, and ⁓ threat, right?
Desiree ep9 (1:02:39)
Because essentially the thing that they're afraid of is that when we all collectively get together, you know, I'm thinking of course the late great Jesse Jackson, you know, his rainbow coalition that was originally started by Fred Hampton from the Black Panthers of this idea of this multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, just like everybody kind of coming together, that there's so much that can actually happen.
And like with neighbors, we're seeing that happen in a way ⁓ with people getting more connected, not just because of an identity or what have you, but just the identity of human, of neighbor, a friend. That's what they're afraid of. And that's why they try to keep us. But the more that you resist that and like be in community with everyone, regardless, that's a way for us to overcome this. But Chris, I know you had something to add as well.
Chris Bevolo (1:03:38)
No, I just all of that hits really home for me and what I'm trying to do with this next chapter of my life because I've had visions of being part of a local like being in a room and organizing around a cause or an election or something and like being giddy about that. Just really wanting to
And part of it, this just goes back to culture, right? We've all seen the movies where, you know, everybody's got their sleeves rolled up and they're really focused. And for a moment, because we know there's politics and bullshit and all that stuff that exists in that world too. But for a moment, they're all connected and actually making the change happen. And you meet new people. And these are people that are smart and they're passionate and holy crap, that's just like a whole new world that's just sitting there for someone like me.
which is a phenomenal part of what I'm going to be doing moving forward. And I can't wait to get involved in some of those. I'm trying to be selective because I only have so much time. So right now I'm kind of just like perusing what's the best place to jump in? it a political race? it a, it's certainly what's going on with ICE. And I just haven't figured out how to do that. My wife's involved and I haven't been yet, but it's just still going on. So that to me is what I hear you talking about, Diana, is the, it's the,
let's get in there and help our neighbors. ⁓ And I would just, I would humbly suggest that maybe the best way to help our neighbors is to find a way to ⁓ disable Nextdoor. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Nextdoor, but if you want to see in my neighborhoods what Nextdoor does in terms of isolating people and driving fear, crack that app open any day of the week and you will see the fear.
It's palpable, it's ubiquitous, it's ridiculous, but it is so real. And it really does come from isolation, it really does. People just stick into their own group or just sticking in their house, afraid to walk outside because the FedEx truck drove left to right instead of right to left, so there must be some kind of conspiracy going on. So maybe we can put that on our to-do list. Maybe it's an anti next door.
Desiree ep9 (1:05:46)
Thanks.
Thanks.
That's our new app. Actually connecting people and not just dividing through like weird conspiracies in your neighborhood.
Chris Bevolo (1:05:59)
What that would be? I don't know what that would be.
Tanya and I used to crack open a bottle of wine and I would do dramatic readings of Nextdoor posts, because they're so good. We haven't done that in while. We should bring that back again.
Diana ep9 (1:06:07)
Yes.
Desiree ep9 (1:06:20)
This was something really cool I experienced when I was on my COVID travel in 2021. I lived for a month in a neighborhood in Portland, Oregon. And again, we were like the total outsiders just kind of coming in, but the neighbors who had been in the area, one of them was walking their dog, came up to me and was like, hey, you're new here, like, hey.
Every Friday we meet over here, we set up a little camp chairs outside and bring our own little beverage of choice and just like it's a way to connect. Like you guys should come over. And I was like, I was so excited. I don't know these people, but the fact that they were finding these little ways to connect with one another and then also just whoever else, regardless of like skin color or orientation or what have you.
It's like little stuff like that. It doesn't have to be like this big organizing. It's just little stuff like an invitation. Because essentially the way that belonging feels real is that someone actually invites you to something. like, you want me? I belong. So it's like little things like that that can connect us. But I know we all have ⁓ various examples and thoughts around that. But
Chris Bevolo (1:07:35)
Well, is there any last, Diana or Des, any last suggestions you have for people related to organizing, relating to protest, related to community? think we brought forward a lot of good stuff, but I wanna give you guys a chance if there's any final thing you'd like to say.
Diana ep9 (1:07:53)
Yeah, I think, ⁓
We've said it over and over, but just repeating it again, that authoritarianism, the authoritarian playbook relies on isolation. And the antidote isn't a perfect protest, but community is the counter-strategy. It's knowing your neighbors, it's showing up. It's the revolutionary, boring, deeply human act of not retreating.
And I think that that connection and building community is the revolutionary act. And that's what we need now more than ever is to connect with each other, to care for each other, to join the mutual aid groups, to join those neighborhood groups, to connect with community. Because again, at the end of the day, organizing is about shifting power and the protest, those direct actions that are one part of a bigger picture.
but it brings people together, it helps create connection, and it helps build momentum and power ⁓ to hopefully connect with each other and change what we're seeing right now. We need to shift that power, but we need to connect with each other first to be able to do that.
Yeah, and truly I would just say the world is just too hard right now to be hard on each other. So that's how I'm feeling. I think I told Des earlier, I'm in my soft era. The world's too hard to be hard on each other right now. We got to give each other a little grace.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:10)
Ciao!
Love that.
No, I love that. I have a suggestion and you guys can ponder it. We should have an Andor watch party situation. Tanya's never seen Andor. Has your partner, does see Andor? Is Kreen seen Andor?
Desiree ep9 (1:09:39)
No. Maybe she has, actually I'm never asking.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:41)
Diana, said,
Diana ep9 (1:09:42)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:44)
so we could have a little wash party where, you know, we all watch at the same time. We text like back in the day on the Oscars when you would do that, just saying something we could do.
Diana ep9 (1:09:54)
I'm Anne.
100 % in and really.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:58)
Look at Dez, Dez is hesitating,
Diana. Look at her.
Diana ep9 (1:10:02)
see this. The text thread would just be like, what do think does? What now? What do you think about that? That was awesome, right? Right.
Desiree ep9 (1:10:08)
Yeah
just like live WhatsApping.
Chris Bevolo (1:10:16)
You would be like, there's no way that laser gun would shoot that way. I don't like this kind of fiction. You are too real, too real. Well, you got to open up. All right, well, we'll figure that out.
Diana ep9 (1:10:17)
I'm in.
Desiree ep9 (1:10:22)
I'm a realist. I'm a realist.
I keep it too real. All right.
Diana ep9 (1:10:29)
No. Mm-hmm. I'm Just
give me the invite. Invite me to the WhatsApp channel. I'm in to watch Andor all together and to ⁓ make Des like sci-fi.
Chris Bevolo (1:10:42)
All right, I love that. Diana, thank you so much for joining us. I think it's pretty certain we will have you back at some point. That was phenomenal.
Diana ep9 (1:10:53)
Thank
you so much. was so great to spend time with you all tonight. I look forward to the next one.
Chris Bevolo (1:10:56)
Yeah.
Okay, fantastic. Dez, as always, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Desiree ep9 (1:11:04)
You're welcome. I thought you were just gonna do your spiel.
Chris Bevolo (1:11:06)
If you're just a grand,
your Andor shame is on level 10. It's okay. We'll get you there. We'll get you there. We don't mean to pick on you. You're missing amazing art. So we'll get you there and everybody else, whether you like Andor or not, whether you've seen it or not. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it. Hopefully this has helped you cope in some way with this amazingly crazy world around us. Please like and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.
Desiree ep9 (1:11:19)
get there.
Chris Bevolo (1:11:36)
that helps ensure more people get to see the show. Visit www.bearing287.com or follow me on Substack to access other helpful content from our network. As always, I'm Chris Pavelo and on behalf of I'm Not Even Supposed to Be Here and Bearing 287, thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.