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Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Mike Allen [00:00:00]:
Average effort equals average results.
Matt Lofton [00:00:02]:
100%.
Mike Allen [00:00:03]:
So if you want to be an average technician and make average technician money, that's easy. You don't need to do anything at home. Go look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics on what average technicians make. It ain't a lot. Do you know any really amazing technicians that aren't making good money? No, because it's a valuable skill, but they're also investing in themselves outside of normal working hours.
Mike Allen [00:00:25]:
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket, the stuff we or our The views our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have. There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, here's your host, Mike Allen, with Confessions of a Shop Owner, presented by TechMetric, the best software ever invented for any purpose, ever.
Mike Allen [00:00:58]:
All right, dude, not a typical call for us. Usually we're sitting at our— in our office We're both in our offices at home having this conversation, but for whatever reason, we decided today we'd get together and hang out. We're actually at one of my locations. I've got an upstairs lounge and studio that we've built out. So listeners, you might hear some air tools or hammering going on in the background occasionally. That's because we're at the shop and the shop's working right now. So we're just—
Matt Lofton [00:01:26]:
Proof that Mike actually is a shop owner.
Mike Allen [00:01:29]:
Or I've rented some space at a shop, at least. But we're here today talking, and what we were just talking about is an email I got from a listener. And I think it would be really good to take a slightly different tack on this month's episode and have a conversation that I think will be beneficial for technicians that are out there that are potentially looking for a new home, technicians that are potentially hoping to own their own shop one day, and shop owners who are trying to figure out kind of best practices to attract and retain the best of the talent that is out there that is willing to move.
Mike Allen [00:02:08]:
So I'm—
Mike Allen [00:02:09]:
if it's okay with you, I'm going to just kind of summarize this guy's email. I'm not going to give any identifying information because I didn't ask permission, but he's a 38-year-old technician. He's been in the industry since he was 18. He moved from the West Coast to kind of the central part of the country He kind of did a grand tour, did a lot of interviews, checked out a lot of different facilities, got a lot of offers with big sign-on bonuses and relocation, you know, expense coverage and that kind of thing, and a lot of big promises. So he moved, picked up everything and moved to another part of the country and started, and it turned out he got a lot of promises that, in his opinion, weren't delivered on.
Mike Allen [00:02:52]:
Right?
Mike Allen [00:02:53]:
He had a big-ass, from what he describes it, signing bonus that was contingent upon staying where he was for a year, or he'd have to pay it all back. And the cost of moving meant that he couldn't afford to pay it back, so he had to stay for a year.
Matt Lofton [00:03:07]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:03:08]:
The situation that he described sounded like it was pretty frustrating. He ended up part of the way through that going to the front office and actually working on the counter for a portion of that one year also. Which it sounds as if was pretty eye-opening for him, but also really helped him grow in his industry knowledge. And evidently he did really well in that position. The year was up and his pay had actually not been what he had thought it was gonna be. And he started looking for another job. And it turns out he hadn't done the things he thinks in retrospect he should have done to build his resume. out the way he thought it was.
Mike Allen [00:03:50]:
You know, he had a very different experience his second time looking for a job than he did the first time. The first time it was signing bonuses and relocation expenses and everybody wanted him, and the second time he was really struggling.
Mike Allen [00:04:01]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:04:02]:
Um, so he ended up moving back to the West Coast, back to the same dealership that he was at before, uh, and he's working on building out that resume now. So his questions were What are the things that a technician can do to build out a world-class resume to really kind of wow those shops during the interview process to get the real crème de la crème positions? And what are owners who are trying to attract those individuals doing to attract and retain after they get them those very high skill kind of stand out in the crowd type team members. And I thought that that was one, it was an interesting email to get, and thanks to you for sending that email.
Matt Lofton [00:04:51]:
We have to give him an alias.
Mike Allen [00:04:52]:
Yeah, we're gonna call him Susan. So Susan, I'm really proud of you.
Matt Lofton [00:04:58]:
A Boy Named Sue.
Mike Allen [00:04:59]:
A Boy Named Sue, yeah, yeah, that is a great song. So he had a lot of questions built into there, into that story, and he kind of Was, uh, it felt like he was trauma dumping a little bit in the email, but I get it, man. I can't imagine picking up my life and moving halfway across the country to then, you know, 16 months later find myself right back where I started. So I'm, I'm pretty sure that that was, um, challenging to say the least. Um, so I'll ask you this because we both interview technicians on a regular basis. I put a— I put an offer letter out to a technician an hour before you got to the shop today.
Matt Lofton [00:05:37]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:05:37]:
Yep. Steven was over here and we were talking about it and trying to do the math and make sure that it was right for everybody, you know. But first question is, what's some— like, what's a green flag for you from a technician? What are the things that you're instantly interested?
Matt Lofton [00:05:50]:
So I would say I've gotten to the point now where me personally, and I'll speak on my personal behalf first, and then I'll talk about, you know, kind of how we coach shops in the recruiting process and the hiring process and in the employee retention process. Not that they differ drastically, but every shop's going to be a little bit different in, in how they attack these issues. Green lights for me, I'm looking first for somebody that's going to fit, you know, the right— some of the culture stuff.
Mike Allen [00:06:24]:
Mm-hmm.
Matt Lofton [00:06:25]:
And with the culture stuff for me, it's I'm looking, I'm looking for kind of odd stuff on the surface, if that makes— but I want to see how fast they walk, right? If we're in a production-based environment, the ability to move from point A to point B determines—
Mike Allen [00:06:44]:
With urgency?
Matt Lofton [00:06:45]:
Yeah, with a little bit of urgency, you know. So I mean, the guy that walks in and it takes him 15 minutes to walk from, you know, from here to the parking lot, that's probably how he's going to walk when he's working. And we're going to have downtime between, you know, between tickets. We're going to have downtime between issues just because of his natural pace. So step number 1, I just want to see who's getting out of the car. Are they showing up on time to the meeting? When they get out of the car, are they presentable? Are they walking from the parking lot to the lobby with some level of urgency? As we're talking, you know, do they have some base communication skills? I'm not saying that they have to be you know, service advisor level. But, you know, one of the issues that we have industry-wide is just internal communication is so bad. And so technicians believe their only job is to fix cars.
Matt Lofton [00:07:37]:
And but before we have the opportunity to fix the car, we have to sell the work. And the ability to sell the work is predicated on getting an accurate estimate for what's needed on the vehicle and communicating the urgency and priorities of those, which is internal communication.
Mike Allen [00:07:52]:
Right.
Matt Lofton [00:07:53]:
So I just, I want to check those boxes off first in the first couple minutes, and then I'm getting into trying to ask some technical type questions to figure out where I size them up based off of what our job categories are. So we call it general service technician, production technician, master production technician, and then master tech. So a General service technician for us would be kind of like a lube tech, and they would be doing oil changes, fluid services, tires, light-duty type stuff.
Mike Allen [00:08:28]:
State inspections.
Matt Lofton [00:08:28]:
Yeah, state inspections, things along those lines. Production technicians are going to be doing undercar, underhood work, and then a master production tech is going to be doing your engines, engine teardown, heavier underhood stuff, some diagnostic work. And then a master tech's doing everything, right? So I'm going to figure out some kind of general assessment of where they fit on that scale because I've never interviewed a technician that told me they couldn't do something. And so we try to weed through that. So I think I'm trying to get a level of honesty from them and figure out where they're at. I would rather interview a guy that just blatantly told me, look, man, I'm a lube tech. That's what I am. This is the stuff that I'm good at.
Matt Lofton [00:09:10]:
This is what I want to do. I like to see some level of passion. And, you know, one of the conversations that I have with technicians is, you know, this is a really crappy job if you think about it. It's a great career, but it's a crappy job. If you're just looking for a 9-to-5 paycheck, there are plenty of other industries out there that offer a cushier 9-to-5 paycheck than what we can offer you. It's hot in the summertime, it's cold in the wintertime, you know.
Mike Allen [00:09:36]:
You don't have a climate-controlled shop. You're an animal.
Matt Lofton [00:09:39]:
Tanika's already gotten on me about that, so I'm being shamed about it already. But no, we are not climate controlled. We are climate—
Mike Allen [00:09:48]:
The shop we're sitting in right now is a balmy 71 degrees.
Matt Lofton [00:09:53]:
It is very nice. If you're a technician looking for an air-conditioned shop, call Mike. We do offer climate assistance, so we have portacools.
Mike Allen [00:10:01]:
As cool as a fan.
Matt Lofton [00:10:02]:
We have portacools for each technician, but we have not invested in climate control in the shop yet. But it's hot in the summertime, it's cold in the wintertime. You know, you're gonna slip a wrench and bust your knuckles on something. It's just gonna happen. So there has to be a level of passion that makes you get up every single day and come in and give your best. So I'm trying to cover all that in the first little bit. And then, you know, then from there we're gonna go back to the resume and try to validate, you know, some of the things that they're telling me based off of, you know, what we saw on the resume.
Mike Allen [00:10:38]:
Do you do any testing? So for example, for service advisors, I want them to do a typing test. I want to show that you can type at a decent level. My dad used to have technicians do a basic math skills test.
Matt Lofton [00:10:55]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:10:56]:
I've had Brian Pollack and Jim Kokonas help me write a technical skills test. And it turns out that it was entirely too difficult and that was a disaster trying to execute on that. So don't have unicorns write tech skills tests.
Matt Lofton [00:11:15]:
So the answer is I have done those in the past. We obviously do a lot of that stuff for service advisors. What we've done for technicians, you know, I was fortunate or unfortunate, however you want to consider it, to go through a time period there where I got fairly educated. on some of the higher-end stuff, not, not on the repair side, but, uh, on the diagnostic side. So I've got a list of questions that I ask in the interview process. I really want to know, I want to know what your process is. So I'm going to ask you, hey, you got a P0300, walk me through. I'm going to give a sample vehicle.
Matt Lofton [00:11:51]:
You got a 2015 F-150, 130,000 miles on the clock. You've got a P0300. Your ticket says customer states check engine light comes on, it has a slight stumble on initial crank up in the morning, and then after driving the vehicle it's fine. And so, A, they have to tell me if they know what a P0300 is off the top of their head. You'd be surprised how many tell me that their first step would be looking up what a P0300 is. So again, that backs me into, okay, it's fine, he's not a diag tech, right?
Mike Allen [00:12:25]:
Right. It's a GS.
Matt Lofton [00:12:27]:
That's a GS, right? And then if they can tell me what a P0300 is, that's a check mark and, you know, going in the right box. Then I'm listening to the process, you know, what is the process, what are you going to do? I want to, I want to hear them. I'm going to verify the concern. If it only happens on cold startup, then I'm going to ask the service advisor to make sure that vehicle can sit overnight and I'm going to check it the next morning. Before I check it I'm gonna do a key-on code scan, you know, just to make sure what all codes are there, so on and so forth. I just want to hear what their process is, and then I want to see how analog or digital it is. So analog to me is, I mean, you can diagnose a misfire competently analog by switching coils and plugs and seeing if the misfire follows to a different cylinder. Nothing wrong with that.
Matt Lofton [00:13:17]:
Is it the best way to do it? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the vehicle. But that gives me an idea of, okay, so he's a functional guy, but if we have that side-mounted V6, right, and the back bank's underneath the intake, he's gonna be asking for additional time to pull the, you know, pull the upper intake off to be able to get to those to swap them over, where a more advanced guy is gonna pull an oscilloscope out and be able to do it without touching anything.
Mike Allen [00:13:46]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:13:46]:
Right.
Matt Lofton [00:13:46]:
So that kind of gives me an idea about where we're at. So that would be, you know, maybe a production tech. And so that's kind of— that's the conversation that I'm trying to have is really just trying to assess the skill. Then I'm going to ask a mechanical repair process question. My personal favorite is, hey, you get a ticket to do front pads and rotors on an SUV. Walk me through your process of what you would do from the time you get the ticket to the time you would turn it back to the advisor. And I'm trying to hear, are they going to road test the vehicle before they do it? Are they, are they getting detailed enough to put the caliper on an S-hook and, you know, hang it on the suspension so the caliper is not, you know, being suspended by the brake line? All these types of things. The more skilled individual that you interview, the more detailed their process is.
Mike Allen [00:14:36]:
Right.
Matt Lofton [00:14:36]:
Like if I talk to Brian, Brian can give me a step-by-step process of how he's going to do that job. And if I'm talking to a GS, they're going to say, well, I'm going to take the rotor off, I'm going to take the caliper and pull it back, I'm going to put new pads in, I'm going to put a new rotor on, I'm going to slap the new, you know, new caliper with the new pads installed on top of the new rotor and tighten everything up. If that's the process, that's a GS.
Mike Allen [00:14:59]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:15:00]:
Again, nothing wrong with that, but that helps me place where they are, right? So that's kind of what my interview process is and what I'm looking for. So I guess to answer your question, you know, back to what Sue is talking about here is—
Mike Allen [00:15:14]:
A tech named Sue.
Matt Lofton [00:15:15]:
Yeah, so a tech named Sue, make sure that you, make sure that you can explain your diagnostic process, make sure that you can explain your repair process, and make sure that you have a repeatable process in place so that when you are interviewing, you know, you can explain what that is in a competent and efficient way.
Mike Allen [00:15:35]:
Ask you about certifications because some people believe that they're not worth the paper they're written on and other people, you know, live and die by it. I think it's safe to say that we've all met ASE-certified master technicians that probably couldn't fix a sandwich. And we've also met world-class technicians who have no certifications.
Matt Lofton [00:15:53]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:15:54]:
So understanding that both of those extremes exist.
Matt Lofton [00:15:58]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:16:00]:
You know, I prefer a technician that has at least A1 through A8 so that I can say, hey, Miss Jones, Technician Sue's working on your car today. He's been doing this for 20 years. He's an ASE certified master technician. He's the right guy for the job, right? And so that's just part of our building trust and process. And so, you know, to the, the emailer's question, you know, one of the things that we do is we pay for ASE testing and recertifications and we give raises based on A1 through A8 and L1 and L2.
Matt Lofton [00:16:35]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:16:35]:
So I think that it is valuable for that reason primarily. Honestly, I believe that A1 through A8 signals that you have a baseline understanding of systems and operation.
Mike Allen [00:16:52]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:16:53]:
It's not a master technician.
Matt Lofton [00:16:54]:
It's—
Mike Allen [00:16:55]:
I feel like that's you've become a journeyman at that point. You are taking it seriously as a profession rather than a job. I don't know that I've ever met like a GM World Class Technician, World Class Certified, who's a dumbass. Like some of those OEM factory master certifications, you have to be a strong player in that field to be able to get there.
Matt Lofton [00:17:21]:
I agree.
Mike Allen [00:17:21]:
So I put a little bit more weight behind high-level OEM certifications than I do Generalized ASE certifications until we get to like L1, L2. I don't know that I've ever seen an L1 who was incompetent.
Matt Lofton [00:17:37]:
So what I would say there, my personal opinion on that is I'm a big, I'm a big certificates guy. I like the certificates for a lot of the same reasons that you already identified, but past that, you know, if you go talk to a a lifelong GS and you ask them what ASE stands for, you know, you get all the jokes, right? Ask somebody else, all that stuff. I've never met the polar extremes that you talked about. The guy that doesn't have the certificates that isn't— is a master tech, there's plenty of those out there, 100%. What I've never met is one of those guys that could not pass the master level certification if they took it.
Mike Allen [00:18:18]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:18:19]:
The excuses that we hear a lot are, well, I'm just not a good test taker, right?
Mike Allen [00:18:23]:
I've never worked anywhere that they care.
Matt Lofton [00:18:25]:
Or I've never worked anywhere that they cared, so on and so forth, right? So I, I don't buy into that logic. I don't buy into that line of thinking. Do I think that ASE certifications are as robust as they could be, or that we have certification programs in general that are as robust as they could be? I do not. So it's not the end-all be-all. I've, you know, I mean, we have had LO1 master techs that weren't great at—
Mike Allen [00:18:53]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:18:54]:
You know, that weren't, you know, phenomenal technicians. So I mean, it is possible. Um, but if you are a great technician and you are a professional and you're looking to stay in this industry for a lifetime, you— I believe you'd be doing yourself a disservice to not get, uh, not get certified and accredited. It does look good on the resume, and past looking good on the resume It is something for your shop, like you said, from a marketing standpoint. It's a differentiator between you and the rest of the population that you're competing with for a job. And it also should be tied— there should be some compensation level tied to that, like you said. So, and we do the same thing. We're either paying for the certifications coming in.
Matt Lofton [00:19:34]:
So if you already have them, we're going to pay you per certification that you already have, or we're going to pay you to get those certifications.
Mike Allen [00:19:40]:
Okay.
Matt Lofton [00:19:40]:
and we're going to pay you to recert for those certifications. And I tell my guys, the only thing that I have done— I used to require it like it was mandated. I've gotten away from that to some extent, mainly just because I got tired of trying to take a GS that just wanted to be a GS for life, and he was happy being a GS, and then force— you know, that puts me in a weird spot of, okay, I'm requiring you to get so much education, so much certificates a year. I mean, if I'm always going to have a GS and little Johnny's happy being a GS and he's happy with what he makes as a GS and he knows that his pay can't go any further than what his ability is and he's comfortable with that, then—
Mike Allen [00:20:20]:
It is weird to see like a 45-year-old dude who has been working on cars his whole life and is happy making $20 an hour.
Matt Lofton [00:20:29]:
But they exist.
Mike Allen [00:20:30]:
No motivation to— I mean, yeah, I mean, we lost him.
Matt Lofton [00:20:33]:
And so, you know, so that's the frustration that I had with that. But I mean, if you're in an area where you can constantly get, you know, get access to, you know, quality technicians and, you know, you can get ASE-certified applicants all day, every day, then require it. I mean, I don't see an issue with it. Just me personally, we stopped requiring it. But I give them a— they get a pretty good incentive to go get them if they want to go get them. And it's part of their comp plan moving forward, you know, for their progression path if they want to progress.
Mike Allen [00:21:04]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:21:05]:
So in answer to the question from the listener who emailed in, yes, I think that you should pursue both OEM certifications and ASE certifications because the ASEs are gonna carry more weight in the aftermarket. And obviously the OEMs are OEM-focused, but I think it signals at a certain level a degree of professionalism and commitment to the career versus it's just a job, right?
Matt Lofton [00:21:35]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:21:36]:
It's not always the case, but we're talking about generalizations, right? And to the shop owners out there, you know, I've already talked about how we work that certification into the conversation to build trust and rapport with the customer. By all means, your service advisor should be doing that when appropriate. But as a retention piece for shop owners to keep guys and gals who are investing in themselves and in their development, what we do, and what you do might be totally different, and it's up to you and your market, but A1 through A8, it's 50 cents apiece is added to their hourly rate, and L1 and L2 is $1 apiece, so that's potentially up to $6.
Mike Allen [00:22:23]:
Okay.
Mike Allen [00:22:24]:
And then once you have A1 through A8, we also do $50 a week on the tool truck as a tool stipend. And it has to be used on tools. It can't be used on beef jerky and pocket knives. But, you know, that's nice that they can go out and, you know, get that latest scan tool and they don't give a shit if it's 47 years at $50 a week because it's not their $50. You know, it's mine.
Mike Allen [00:22:49]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:22:49]:
And so certifications matter, and I think that you should encourage your team to pursue them. And if you're a technician, I think that you should pursue them so that you can find an employer who's going to give you those types of benefits that are maybe not traditional benefits, and they're out there.
Matt Lofton [00:23:07]:
100%.
Mike Allen [00:23:07]:
I learned those things from my peers in my elite pro service group. So we talked a little bit about green flags. We talked a little bit about certifications. Let's talk about red flags. What are the things that— and obviously it's going to be the inverse of some of the green flags, right?
Matt Lofton [00:23:27]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:23:27]:
But what are some other things that you look for?
Matt Lofton [00:23:29]:
Yeah, so I'm looking for— again, we're looking for some level of urgency. We're looking for shared core principles and values. I'm going to ask questions. You know, my favorite question to ask in an interview is, hey, 6 months from now, we're going to know each other really well. You're going to know the things that suck about working here because there's something that sucks about working everywhere. And we're going to know some things about, you know, about you that we wish we would have known today. And what are those things? And I'm looking for how honest they're going to be in that, you know, how honest they're going to be in that answer.
Mike Allen [00:24:07]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:24:08]:
Are they trying to turn a negative into a positive type situation?
Mike Allen [00:24:12]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:24:12]:
And then how many times it takes me to reframe that question before I get a real, you know, before I get a real answer back. We're going to have conversations about, you know, what their past work experience is and why some of those, you know, we all get the resumes now and you got the guy that's been every other year he's had a new job.
Mike Allen [00:24:34]:
Every other year, I'd be cool with that.
Matt Lofton [00:24:36]:
Yeah, I mean, 10 years ago that would be a huge red flag, right? But now not so much, right? So I mean, unfortunately, the, you know, unfortunately our industry has put technicians in a position where if they want a raise, they have to go out and look for a new position, you know, to get that raise. Unfortunately, it's because there's not career plans and pay progressions built into a lot of shops. You know, so if they want more money, they have to go, go somewhere else. But I want to find out that's why they left, right? Um, I'm looking for red flags like, well, everywhere they've ever worked, you know, they had an issue with management.
Mike Allen [00:25:13]:
Um, you know, if you've worked at 14 places in 10 years and all of them were crooks.
Matt Lofton [00:25:20]:
Yeah. And so I'm, I'm looking for those types of things. Um, The other red flags I'm trying to get to are— I'm trying to ask a lot of questions about how they spend their time away from work. So I would say these would be more yellow flags than they would be red flags, but do they have dangerous hobbies? So, I mean—
Mike Allen [00:25:45]:
Really big into BASE jumping.
Matt Lofton [00:25:46]:
I mean, are we— I mean, do we have a crotch rocket and we're pulling into the shop on one wheel, you know, doing front wheelies and then leaving the shop standing up on one wheel I mean, inevitably, you know, the best availability is a bit— I mean, the best ability is availability. And if you're going to be injured half the, you know, half the year because you're falling off a dirt bike every day, then, you know, that limits your value to me. So I'm going to try to address some of those situations. What does the home life look like, right? Are we married? Do we have kids? If so, you know, what does an average week look like for you?
Mike Allen [00:26:22]:
Right.
Matt Lofton [00:26:23]:
Do you have support? How young are the kids? Do we have family support? Are you guys the only ones in the area? If, I mean, little Johnny's going to get sick, it's going to happen. And when little Johnny gets sick, how does that—
Mike Allen [00:26:35]:
He stays home.
Matt Lofton [00:26:36]:
Yeah, how does that happen? Are you the one that stays home, or is she the one that stays home? Do we have a grandparent, aunt, and uncle in the picture that can step in? How does that typically work?
Mike Allen [00:26:45]:
So we should preface all of that, that you've got to find ways to pull that information out of the conversation without asking certain questions.
Matt Lofton [00:26:52]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:26:53]:
Because I can see it already, the comments, you're not allowed to ask that.
Matt Lofton [00:26:58]:
And that's— you have to develop your question base to get the information that you want and make sure that you— so at Elite, we use Sesco, which is an HR company. So if you're an Elite client, you have an opportunity to get a Sesco analysis done for those things. You can turn in, you can submit your questions to them. A lot of payroll companies will do the same thing. But you'll submit, you know, your interview questions to them, and then they'll give you a thumbs up or thumbs down based off what your state or federal regulations are in your area. Highly recommend that. Um, you know, it's, it's worth the investment, whatever that is, to, you know, keep yourself from getting yourself in trouble.
Mike Allen [00:27:34]:
I mean, you can't say, how old are you, right? But you are going to pull their MVR to check if they're insurable.
Matt Lofton [00:27:40]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:27:41]:
You can't say, are you married?
Matt Lofton [00:27:43]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:27:43]:
But you can say, what do you do for fun? And if it's, I like to hang out with my wife and kids.
Matt Lofton [00:27:48]:
What is your family life? You know, what does your home life look like?
Mike Allen [00:27:51]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:27:53]:
You know, what do you like to do? What do you like to do away from work?
Mike Allen [00:27:57]:
Increasingly, I'm getting a lot of, I play a lot of video games. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Is that just the reality of the population?
Matt Lofton [00:28:04]:
I think it depends. I mean, it is a— it can be a negative. Uh, I think a lot of that's just— I think a lot of that's just— that's the era in which they grew up in was a heavy gaming population.
Mike Allen [00:28:19]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:28:19]:
So I don't put a whole lot of weight to it. Um, but I'm trying to— I would factor that in with other questions that I asked and how they answered those questions, because we also need some— there has to be some level of motivation, right? Um, if you're looking for an A-level individual, A-level individuals are motivated and want to improve their current status in their life. So I'm trying to figure out what's your 10-year goal, what's your 5-year goal, where do you, you know, where do you want to be in 10 years? Do you want to live in the same house that you're living in right now? You want to drive the same car? What does that look like? I'm also trying to figure out how much time are you willing to invest in yourself away from work to improve yourself? Like, is this all me? Is your, is your job improvement, your career path development, is that 100% my my responsibility, and that's the way you see it, or are you already at home right now watching ScannerDanner videos and doing all the stuff?
Mike Allen [00:29:12]:
So I know that you're always open to having conversations with technicians that are in the area, right?
Matt Lofton [00:29:17]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:29:18]:
And I'm the same way. My experience when I ask those questions about skills development outside of the workplace, it is really unusual to find somebody who's doing case studies or watching ScannerDanner videos or Super Mario Diag or whatever it might be at home after hours.
Matt Lofton [00:29:39]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:29:40]:
Has that been your experience as well?
Matt Lofton [00:29:42]:
Yeah, 100%. And that— but that is the differentiators, right? If you take a look at your A-players, you know, that are currently on your team and doing great, those were the guys that said yes to those things. They knew who Paul was, they know who Mario is, and they can, you know, they're in those groups, they're in those forums. And I have that same experience. And so I would say if you are a technician, if you're looking to progress your career, if you're looking to earn more— so my personal journey with that was, so as a— when I started my shop, I didn't even know what a mass airflow sensor was or a coil-on-plug, nothing. But I went through a time period there where I didn't want to be held hostage by a technician that knew more than I did. in those, you know, in that area. So I spent 6 months doing 2 hours a night, 7 days a week, and just immersed myself in training for that.
Matt Lofton [00:30:39]:
And so I know what it takes to go from zero to competent. I'm not saying I was the, you know—
Mike Allen [00:30:45]:
Well, Brian's touched on this in some of the episodes that he recorded at Tools. I wasn't there, but average effort equals average results.
Matt Lofton [00:30:53]:
100%.
Mike Allen [00:30:54]:
So if you wanna be an average technician and make average technician money, that's easy. You don't need to do anything at home, right? And go look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics on what average technicians make. It ain't a lot, right?
Matt Lofton [00:31:06]:
It's not a lot.
Mike Allen [00:31:07]:
But do you know any really amazing technicians that aren't making good money? No, because it's a valuable skill, but they're also investing in themselves outside of normal working hours. Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:31:19]:
So, and so, you know, you have to invest in yourself outside of work. You know, I'm looking for somebody who A, has the ability to do that, B, has the— they're already doing that in some way, shape, or form at the moment. So I get a lot— I'll interview a lot of people and they say, well, the place that I'm at right now just doesn't offer any training. And so my question is, what's stopping you right now from seeking out your own training? Like, what are you doing right now to, you know, to better yourself without the shop doing it for you? And they're like, oh well, you know, and you know, all of a sudden—
Mike Allen [00:31:53]:
Mechanics of TikTok.
Matt Lofton [00:31:54]:
All of a sudden, yeah, I mean, all of a sudden we get stutters, you know what I mean?
Mike Allen [00:31:57]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:31:58]:
Well, I asked them, you know, I try to spend time with the master tech and ask them questions and, you know, so on and so forth. Or I try to go to this training or that training if I can, if it's available. But, you know, YouTube is free, guys. I mean, you, you can get on. I mean, Super Mario's not charging, you know. Paul Danner, his, even his paid service is It's stupid affordable. Stupid affordable for everybody. I mean, you could be a GS and be able to afford, you know, ScannerDanner Premium.
Matt Lofton [00:32:22]:
Go out there and get those things.
Mike Allen [00:32:24]:
Shop owners, you know, ScannerDanner Premium has a shop package that you can buy the shop pass and it gives you a certain number of licenses that you can give to all your guys. So that can be one of your ancillary benefits is that if you work here, you get a ScannerDanner Premium subscription, right?
Mike Allen [00:32:39]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:32:40]:
And you can buy his books. and hand his books out. So that's one of the things that we've done.
Matt Lofton [00:32:44]:
100%. And so as a technician, if you're not doing that right now, you know, that's something that you need to do. Because again, if you're a professional, professionals practice. Professionals are currently— they don't just show up 9 to 5, do their deal, and go home. They're working on their craft all the time. And I, again, I go back to that thing. This is a crappy job. It's a great profession.
Matt Lofton [00:33:04]:
It's a great career. It's a great profession. You can make a lot of money at it. You can be very— it can be very enjoyable and rewarding. But it's a bad job, and if you're going to treat it like a job, then—
Mike Allen [00:33:15]:
It's a great career but a bad job. I like that.
Matt Lofton [00:33:17]:
It's a great career but a bad job. And so, you know, so I'm trying to see where are they at on that spectrum. You know, how much are they expecting me to, you know, participate in that? Not that I don't want to participate, but if you're not doing anything right now and you have— we're living in the information age and you have all of this stuff that's free at your disposal and you're not doing anything about it right now, That tells me that you, you don't really care as much as you think you care, because if you did, you would have, you would have already found the free solutions and consumed them.
Mike Allen [00:33:47]:
All right, I want to ask one more question from a shop owner perspective, and then I want to flip the switch a little, the script a little bit, and ask some questions from a technician's perspective who's out there looking for a great place. But before we get to that, we all know what the primary benefits are, you know, retirement, healthcare, PTO, holidays, you know, scheduling, that kind of thing. What are some interesting, maybe not typical benefits that you've seen across the Elite family of businesses that people are offering? Like, for example, the $50 a week tool truck stipend— people really love that. I've got another thing I learned from Elite was every 5th year of employment with our company, that year you get an extra week of vacation and $5,000 to spend towards a vacation that you have to spend on vacation.
Mike Allen [00:34:39]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:34:40]:
So I've had people spend a week in Nashville. I've had people go to Quad Nationals. I've had people go to Disney. I've had people go on a cruise in the Greek Isles. I've had people, you know, take vacations that they might otherwise have never taken because they wouldn't, they wouldn't be willing to spend $5,000 and take a week. So I'm like, here's $5,000 you have to spend on a vacation, and here's an extra week that you have to leave town on. And that's been hugely successful. What are some other things you're hearing?
Matt Lofton [00:35:09]:
I mean, I would say, and you've already mentioned some of this, climate control is, you know, it's a big issue for techs, and I get it. Again, it is a crappy environment back there, so if we can climate control it and make it a little bit better, that is a huge benefit that we hear over and over again from top-level technicians. The tool truck allowances like you've talked about, I think, and PTO honestly is becoming more of an incentive than pay is in a lot of regards, which is— I am, uh, I have mixed emotions about as the shop owner, and because that it adds a lot of complexity to the math for us.
Mike Allen [00:35:47]:
Trying to stay staffed.
Matt Lofton [00:35:47]:
You know, to try to stay staffed and, and, and make sure that we can, we can continue to offer a consistent level of service to the customer. But it is, it's the world that we live in now, and we're going to have to try to figure out something there. As far as the rest of it, I think little things that we can do that aren't just money and time off, just creating an honest environment, right?
Mike Allen [00:36:17]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:36:18]:
What I find is people want feedback, but they want feedback in a caring way. And what I mean by a caring way is I might have negative feedback for Mike, but I'm giving you this negative feedback so you can improve. They want to know that they're not doing a good job. They want to know that they're not— most people are people pleasers. They want you to see them as successful in some way, shape, or form. So, you know, creating that environment there that's, you know, that you have an environment of honesty. If you're doing a good job, we're going to tell you you're doing a good job. If you're not doing a good job, we're going to tell you you're not doing a good job.
Matt Lofton [00:36:55]:
We're going to try to give you some feedback on what you can do to improve. I find that people actually want that. A lot of people— Gallup did a poll, I can't remember the date, it's one of our slides in Eagles— but one of the reasons that people leave their job is because they don't know if they were even doing a good job or not. Yeah, it's one of the biggest reasons that they leave.
Mike Allen [00:37:14]:
No scoreboard.
Matt Lofton [00:37:15]:
There was no feedback, right? So, you know, I think providing an environment that has the scoreboard and lets them know whether they're doing, you know, doing well or not so they can improve is a big impact there. Having consistency across, you know, how we treat people. I think a lot of shop environments have created, you know, We have Mike, who's the, you know, our unicorn over here, and nobody can mess with Mike because Mike produces 80 hours a week, and everybody has to tiptoe around Mike and, you know, do all the stuff because Mike's so great, and if we lose Mike, the whole business goes away. So we might have done a great job of retaining Mike for 30 years, but how many people did we lose?
Mike Allen [00:38:00]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:38:00]:
You know, along the wayside there. So there has to be some level of consistency in the expectations of the team from the culture standpoint. just to make sure we don't trade 5 people for 1 and we're constantly turning over 5 just to hold on to the 1. Because I think that's a big reason that, you know, that's a big issue that we see in the industry, both with management and then just other coworkers as well. I know that's not necessarily a benefit, but I think it makes a big difference in retention. And, you know, I'm a big believer in working interviews and getting them in for a day and letting them see that You know, our money's where our mouth is. Like, I'm not just lying to you about all this stuff. It's just, you know, what I told you in the interview process.
Matt Lofton [00:38:42]:
They get to walk around and go talk to everybody. So if you have a team that's been there for a while and the things that you told them in the interview process are accurate, and they get to go talk to everybody else, everybody else is like, yeah, man, they're, you know, they're legit. If they tell you this, they mean it. I think that goes a long way. Um, as far as other benefits go, Um, that I've heard about. You know, there's, there's lots of shops out there that have some really awesome training, you know, training plans out there for their team. Um, I mean, I mean, really robust, you know, training plans. They're really big on in-house training.
Matt Lofton [00:39:22]:
They have great career development plans in place. I think that's a huge, a huge thing that's missing from our industry is there's just no Clear pathway. There is no clear pathway to progression. Um, and we were— me and Joe were talking about this on our Facebook Live today. You know, we're seeing the industry shift away from flat rate a lot. In most cases, the issue with that is that technician pay in a lot of cases is getting stifled, you know, because that was the only benefit to the technician on flat rate is you were never capped on what you could earn.
Mike Allen [00:39:56]:
As long as our emailer was a high-performing flat rate technician and moved to a position that was salary and realized how much it was limiting their income.
Matt Lofton [00:40:07]:
But it doesn't have to if it's done the right way. So I think having a progression pathway, not just a progression pathway from skill set-wise, because what if I already am a master tech, right? But you're paying me master tech pay today. But what's— what is out there for me to progress my pay scale, right? And so internally, we look at that as effective labor cost. And as long as your productivity is going up, if you're on a fixed pay scale, my effective labor cost is going down, right?
Mike Allen [00:40:37]:
Mm-hmm.
Matt Lofton [00:40:37]:
And so we reevaluate that every 90 days. And if your effective labor cost is going down, then we're going to get— you're eligible for a pay increase. And so that, that always has a carrot out there. And the 90-day span says you had to do that over 90 days. It wasn't just a week or two.
Mike Allen [00:40:53]:
Yeah, it wasn't a blip on the radar.
Matt Lofton [00:40:54]:
Yeah, it wasn't a blip on the radar. And so, you know, that way we're consistently, you know, giving you an option to progress, right? Not just in your skill set, but also in your pay scale as well. So I think that's a challenge in the industry right now that, you know, we, we got away from flat rate because flat rate's terrible. And there's a lot of things about flat rate that I don't like. But from a technician's standpoint, it is— it does stifle, you know, it does stifle the pay wages a little bit there. You know, it's a limiting capacity. And so eventually that capacity sets in and you're like, well, I make the same whether I turn 50 hours or 40 hours. 40 hours, good for me, I'll do 40, right?
Mike Allen [00:41:33]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:41:33]:
But if I constantly put that out there—
Mike Allen [00:41:35]:
Human nature that falls into play there.
Matt Lofton [00:41:36]:
And if I show them that there is a progression pathway there both for promotion and in pay raise, then it kind of keeps them pushing forward on that.
Mike Allen [00:41:45]:
So I want to flip it around a little bit and, and take some questions from a technician's perspective who is out looking for their next home. And look, I'm going to be totally honest with you, having never been a technician out looking for a job, there's going to be some supposition here from my perspective. But one of the questions here is, you know, what interview question should every technician ask at a shop that they're interviewing at? And, and to me, it's going to be, you know, will they let you talk to the other guys at the shop?
Mike Allen [00:42:19]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:42:20]:
If they're not going to let you talk to the other guys in the shop, why not? What's going on there? What's the tenure of the team? They have a lot of turnover? Like, I've, I've had a lot of turnover in my business in the last couple of years because Because I made some mistakes, right? And so I try to own that during the interview process to get ahead of that question, right? But, you know, that's just kind of the nature of the beast. I would say I would want to see performance reports. You know, you can anonymize it and remove names if you want, but I want to see how many hours the guys are getting.
Matt Lofton [00:42:54]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:42:54]:
Because if you're telling me you've got unlimited hours, are the other guys all getting tons of hours? Or the other guys all at 35 and 40, you know, or 25 or whatever it might be. Um, I'd want to see, if I was a technician, knowing that I'm a numbers-driven guy, I would want to see, um, average repair order and closing rate, or at least hours per repair order and closing rate. Because if I'm doing a kick-ass DVI, are the service advisors going to be able to sell it?
Matt Lofton [00:43:22]:
Um, so So I think all those are great. And for the technicians that are out there, and Sue, if you're watching this, you know, I would say to build on what Mike's talking about there, you need to interview the shop as much as they're interviewing you.
Mike Allen [00:43:38]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:43:38]:
The great, the great individuals that we hire all interview us back. You know, they come with a set of questions like we go through our question, we vet them a little bit. They've already showed up looking at the website. They've already showed up looking at— they've driven by and taken a look at the parking lot and the facility. And, you know, they've already paid attention. They've looked at Google reviews. They've done all the stuff, right? To take that a step further and to build on what Mike was saying, and I think everything Mike said there is great.
Mike Allen [00:44:06]:
Can you say that again, but slowly?
Mike Allen [00:44:08]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:44:08]:
Everything Mike said there was great.
Mike Allen [00:44:12]:
Yeah. All right, go ahead. Sorry.
Matt Lofton [00:44:16]:
That was a validating moment for you, wasn't it?
Mike Allen [00:44:18]:
It was great, man. If I could just get my dad to say that.
Matt Lofton [00:44:22]:
That's a, that's a lot more expensive conversation, Mike. So, but I think, um, if I was a technician, and again, I, same, same conversation that Mike had there, I've never been a technician looking for a job, but if I was, I would want to interview the service advisors. I would want one of the service advisors in that room, and I would want to role-play like, hey, you know, I just wrote up this ticket for you. And, you know, here's what I— here's what I need. Sell me the job. You know, because again, you're talking about a limiting factor of my productivity is based on how well you can get a yes from the customer off of what I find.
Mike Allen [00:45:00]:
Holy cow. How many service advisors are going to be able to role-play a sales call with a technician applicant? I have a hard time getting service advisors who are trying to get a job to do a role-play.
Matt Lofton [00:45:10]:
And again, I'm not saying that— I'm not saying that many will do that, but I'm saying that if it was me personally—
Mike Allen [00:45:16]:
Some of these guys are going to be crushing the spirits of service advisors around the country.
Matt Lofton [00:45:19]:
But I mean, if you're talking about if you're one of the top 1% technicians and you want to find one of the top 1% shops, yeah, you've been to some of those 1% shops and you know who they are. Do you think they would have an issue with a technician wanting to role-play with a service advisor? Do you think that would be a green checkbox for them if they asked to do that?
Mike Allen [00:45:36]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:45:37]:
And so I look at that and say, that's what I would want to do, and that would be a huge green flag for me as an owner if it— and to be honest with you, my My current lead technician did do that.
Mike Allen [00:45:49]:
Wow, that's awesome.
Matt Lofton [00:45:50]:
You know, he asked those questions. He said, hey, you know—
Mike Allen [00:45:53]:
Now, I've had technicians ask to see the advisor's closing rate.
Matt Lofton [00:45:58]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:45:58]:
And I thought that was aggressive and a green flag. But, you know, know your worth, right?
Matt Lofton [00:46:05]:
But again, though, you know, we talk about it at Elite a lot. Technician productivity is such such a small percentage is controlled by the technician. So I tell my people all the time, I want you to think about how do I take control of my paycheck as much as possible. Don't put your paycheck in somebody else's hands. So control your controllables. So if I'm a technician and I already know that a portion of my paycheck is being controlled by the front counter, I want to figure out if they got a good front counter or not. Um, so if that's—
Mike Allen [00:46:35]:
That's part of why flat rate is so fucked, right? Because so much of their ability to earn is out of their hands.
Matt Lofton [00:46:39]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:46:40]:
If you've got a terrible service advisor or they're buying shitty parts or if the marketing doesn't work or, you know, whatever number of reasons, the one who ends up holding the bag there a lot of times is the technician. So I get a lot of that frustration. I understand.
Matt Lofton [00:46:54]:
Yeah, and so I want to know, you know, if there is a production-based pay, I would want to know what happens when there's a mistake. And I don't just mean a workmanship error and there's a comeback. I mean, what happens when the technician gets a ticket and And there's an upper and lower intake, and the service advisor has priced out and estimated out the upper intake, but it really needed the lower intake, and there's a 3-hour difference on time, right? Am I expected to eat that, or are you going to pay me the gap? You know, are you just going to pay me off of what the customer pays, or are you going to pay me off of what the book is to do the job?
Mike Allen [00:47:30]:
All right, I think that's a relevant question also, even if you're a technician who's on a salary.
Matt Lofton [00:47:33]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:47:34]:
Because your performance is judged off of, among other things, production.
Matt Lofton [00:47:40]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:47:41]:
And if the front office is screwing up the estimating process, or if they're asking you to do a bunch of stuff that's not customer pay billed time because they know your salary and it doesn't matter, it's gonna make it look like you are less productive than you actually are.
Matt Lofton [00:47:56]:
And that's 100%. And so we have technicians that are hourly, I have technicians that are salaried, and I have technicians that are hybrid pay. So we have it all the way across the board. The expectation is the same. I don't care how you want to get to the math. It doesn't matter to me, right? If you're more comfortable making a salary and you want to know what you're going to make every single week, that's fine.
Mike Allen [00:48:12]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:48:13]:
But I'm going to lay out the expectations of what I expect to get there, and I'm going to set a maximum of what my effective labor cost is. So just because you're not getting, you know, flat rate hours and you're not getting paid for your production, I'm still looking at your production and it still needs to be there for me to justify the salary. Right.
Mike Allen [00:48:30]:
So that's one of the things that I've said for a few years now is if there's a strong player that comes across my desk and they're checking on the right boxes, the question is, how do you want to get paid?
Mike Allen [00:48:41]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:48:41]:
I'm gonna pay you however you want to get paid. It's just how much of the risk is transferred from me to you or backward or the other way is going to be a defining characteristic of what the minimum level of acceptable Yep.
Mike Allen [00:48:57]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:48:57]:
There's gonna be a minimum no matter what, but if you want $150,000 a year pure salary, well, I'm gonna need to see a certain level of performance and a certain level of proficiency.
Matt Lofton [00:49:06]:
And technicians, if you want that salary, you just also have to understand as the employee, like Mike said, you've just now shifted the risk profile over to yourself. And again, if you're able to deliver, there's nothing wrong with that, right? But, you know, I have that conversation on the front end and say, listen, if you're willing, if you want that and you're willing to assume the risk for that, But if you're unproductive, I need you to understand that makes the math not very good for me, and we're going to have to solve that math problem very quickly. And so, but yeah, so I want to know, I want to know that the environment is possible for me to be productive. I want to know, hey, what is that career development plan, right? Like, A-players have a vision for where they see themselves down the road, right? And even when I was an employee in my life, my vision was never, I want to have this role and that's my role. this role is a stepping stone to this role is a stepping stone to this role. And so I'm looking for somebody that has that same mentality. And, and if I have that mentality as a technician coming in, I need to know what the rules are for me to progress, right?
Mike Allen [00:50:07]:
So, um, we're running out of time. This has been a very good conversation. I feel like we could do a whole nother episode on it. But, um, one of his points, uh, one of Sue's points in the email was That there was a degree of feeling trapped by that signing bonus. Sounds like it was a big signing bonus. I don't know exactly how much it was, but if he didn't work there for at least a full year, he was gonna have to pay it back in its entirety. And it sounds like there was an agreement signed to that effect. So I have done signing bonuses that are smaller signing bonuses that are paid the day the box hits the, hits the floor, right? I've done some where it's a portion the day you come in, a portion at 30 days, and a portion at 90 days.
Mike Allen [00:50:52]:
And I've done some where it was half the day you arrive and half at 90 days. I've never considered a 1-year employment contract.
Matt Lofton [00:51:01]:
I haven't. I love the idea from the shop owner though, from a shop owner's perspective. Yeah, I think as a— if I was a technician, I think—
Mike Allen [00:51:10]:
Is that enforceable? Can you be like, no, you got to pay me back that signing bonus?
Matt Lofton [00:51:13]:
The answer is I don't, I don't know.
Mike Allen [00:51:15]:
11 months later, I feel like you could just be like 2 fingers to the wind and come after me for it?
Matt Lofton [00:51:19]:
I mean, the answer is I have no idea. And from an elite standpoint, we always, anytime somebody comes up with an idea like that, we always make sure that they check with the local state laws, you know, to see if it is enforceable, because sometimes it's just not, right? But let's say that it was enforceable, and let's say that he would have to give it back. You know, we have a lot of information that's missing from that conversation, and, you know, what I would say is If you knew you were going to leave, because at some point in time you identified that I want to get out of here and only inside of a year, and the only reason I'm not getting out of here is because I have to pay this exorbitant amount of money back, right?
Mike Allen [00:51:53]:
Mm-hmm.
Matt Lofton [00:51:53]:
Did we communicate that to, you know, to the boss? Like, did you go sit down and say, hey Mike, I agreed to work here, you know, for X, Y, and Z, and I took this sign-on bonus, and I'm just going to be 100% honest with you, if it wasn't for that sign-on bonus, my toolbox would be on a rollback right now and I'd be somewhere else. Here's the reasons why. Bam, bam, bam, bam, and bam. If you don't give me an opportunity to fix the problem, I can't fix the problem. And if you're not going to tell me, then you're as much complicit in the issue as everybody else is, including myself as the owner, right?
Mike Allen [00:52:24]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:52:24]:
So that would be another thing that I would tell technicians out there, man, just be honest with your management, be honest with your owner, but be professional about your honesty. Because if you don't give us an opportunity to fix it— and that doesn't say that all shop owners want to fix the problem, and they may not want to. There's a lot of them out there. But by virtue of them offering something as progressive as a massive year-long bonus, you know, for a sign-on, for a sign-on bonus, that says they're probably not in the bottom half of the shops that are out there.
Mike Allen [00:52:53]:
If they've got $20,000, I don't— I have no idea what the amount was. They got $20,000 to give as a signing-on, but as a signing bonus, probably a decent shop. Right. I would say from a technician perspective, if I was offered a large signing bonus that had a contingency to stay for at least a year or you have to pay it back, is that I would, I would say, you know, if I'm out in 90 days, I got to pay it back. But after that, prorate it. Because if I'm out in 11 months, I shouldn't pay you back the entire amount. I should pay you back 1/12.
Matt Lofton [00:53:23]:
Or I would want to have some opportunity guarantees, right? Um, you know, so like one of the, one of the guarantees that if I was a technician, I would try to get is You give me a car count guarantee. You can't give me an hours guarantee because I'm the one and the service advisors are the ones that produce the hours, right? But you can give me an opportunity.
Mike Allen [00:53:40]:
Yeah, give me— guarantee me 3 cars a day.
Mike Allen [00:53:41]:
Yep.
Matt Lofton [00:53:41]:
If you're gonna— if you can guarantee me 3 cars a day and if you've given me 3 cars a day and I'm not producing, then that's 100% on me right now. If I'm getting 3 cars a day and my tech average quote is strong and, you know, so I— as, as technicians, learn the numbers of the business that you work in. All right, because you're being judged by the numbers in some way, shape, or form. And if you don't understand these numbers, then it can be held against you on your, on your pay, and it can be held against you in the negotiation for performance reviews and all this stuff. For performance reviews. So it's not just good enough to fix cars. Understand the business that you're in and understand the business that you work for and how you make money for the owner. Because if you can come to me, let's say you work for an uneducated owner and he just— he's not a bad guy, he just doesn't understand the math.
Matt Lofton [00:54:24]:
But if you can sit down and show him how you're getting a $50,000 a year raise, he's still making a lot of money. I'm not saying he'll get it every time, but you have a better chance.
Mike Allen [00:54:34]:
Well, and understanding the numbers is also, you know, a lot of the technicians— I would imagine a lot of the technicians who might find themselves listening to this podcast probably have an interest in being a shop owner at some point also. And so the more you can have a strong grasp on the numbers that drive the business before you're writing the checks, the better off you're going to be.
Matt Lofton [00:54:56]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:54:57]:
For sure. So Sue, I hope that answers some of your questions. Feel free to write me back again. If there are any other listeners who have questions that they'd love to hear us discuss at some point, let us know. I can't guarantee that we'll do it every month, but maybe we can do it a little recurring Q&A with the listeners.
Matt Lofton [00:55:15]:
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Mike Allen [00:55:16]:
So, um, anything to add or you good to go?
Matt Lofton [00:55:20]:
No, uh, appreciate you having me out. Um, enjoyed coming out and visiting the place. It's a massive, massive facility here, Mike.
Mike Allen [00:55:28]:
Uh, yeah, there's—
Matt Lofton [00:55:29]:
there's sneaky big.
Mike Allen [00:55:30]:
Yeah, it is. And it's kind of tucked away downtown. You don't— you don't think it's gonna have this kind of space. I think I've got space for like 4 more lifts I can get in here, uh, which would be nice. We'll get there.
Matt Lofton [00:55:39]:
I'd have a car elevator.
Mike Allen [00:55:40]:
You'd have— yeah, we're on the second floor. We're in the— yeah, we're We're in the Confessions of a Shop Owner lounge. Uh, but thanks for coming out, man. I appreciate it.
Matt Lofton [00:55:47]:
Yep, absolutely enjoyed it.
Mike Allen [00:55:48]:
Talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out— the good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover, or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mike@confessionsofashopowner.com. Or call and leave a message. The number is 704-CONFESS. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, or follow.
Mike Allen [00:56:22]:
Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.