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The Bad Mom Podcast is where raw parenting stories meet real solutions for raising resilient kids in today’s anxious, digital world. Hosted by humanitarian and Just Like My Child Foundation founder, Vivian Glyck, each episode blends unfiltered conversations, expert insights, and lived experiences to help parents swap guilt for grit—and discover how imperfect parenting can still support and encourage strong, thriving humans.
BadMomPodcast Transcript
Season 1, Ep. 2, Zak Koenigs
Vivian: Oh my gosh, I am so excited. A little bit nervous and terrified, but. Really looking forward to pulling back the curtains on this next episode where I'm interviewing my own son, Zach, who I love more than anything in the world, and I am gonna ask him some really tough questions about his experience and his experience growing up in this digital world, in the anxious generation.
What I did wrong, what I did right. And some ideas and suggestions that he has for Gen Z for this, um, for this generation. And how you, as a parent, as a caretaker, as someone who loves a child, can really help them to navigate a really, really difficult time.
Vivian: I am super excited that this [00:01:00] is our first time recording for The Bad Mom Podcast, parenting The Anxious Generation, and I wanted to have you here for so many reasons, but. I'm a little bit terrified and scared of some of your answers 'cause I'm gonna ask you some really personal questions and I think questions that reflect on me also as, um, your mother and we have really been through it and been through it together and you've been through it also on your own and.
Vivian:I, uh, I just have so much admiration for how you can articulate what's going on with your generation and your experiences, can you like paint a picture for people who are listening of what your lowest point looked like. Not all the clinical details, but like maybe what a typical day felt like when you were most isolated So
Vivian: what would you like to share?
Zak: I struggled a lot with a bunch of different mental health problems and disorders, um, for pretty much my whole life.
On the bad days, I was laying in bed pretty much all day, attempting to just distract my mind for two seconds to get any sort of relief from the spiraling that was going on in my mind. My OCD had completely taken over my life. I was pretty much incapable of talking to or texting people and making calls.
It would sometimes take me up to 20 minutes to send a text message, like a line of texts 'cause my OCD was so bad and I was also attempting to run a business at the same point in time, and I was self-medicating. I was just trying to stay afloat mentally and not be sucked in so far down the world of, I mean, just like the whirlwind of life and information.
Um, some days I would just be sick and other days I would be fine. Um, but it was such a back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and I just was lonely.
Vivian: you and I have talked a lot about isolation and it was very difficult to figure out as a parent what to do, and that's kind of where the bad mom comes from. And also realizing that you were in a world that I didn't really know that much about.
Right. You are kind of the. The portion of Gen Z that started to grow up without a smartphone, and then were able to get it like in middle school and beyond, and I know. You will blame me forever that you were one of the last kids in your class to get a smartphone. And we did really try to control it, but there's a world, like a, a world that wasn't going on in the 3D that I think you, and so many of your, you know, your generation is involved with, and.
I mean, you were 100% a COVID kid. You were graduating high school in [00:05:00] 2020 when the world completely stopped. Um, you know, maybe you could tell me a little bit about that experience of isolation and how it contributed to.
You found yourself?
Speaker 4: I could go on a spiel about how unique my age range is in comparison to the rest of Gen Z and how we had a lot of social development before becoming heavily involved in the social media sphere and like, um, completely becoming one with technology. We were able to develop our personalities and our sense of self a little bit more beforehand, and then that sense of self became enmeshed with the digital world.
Like a really kind of interesting and bizarre way, um, that a lot of other kids who maybe even are two years older or younger than me, didn't get the chance to have. Um,
I The class of 2020 was actually probably the best equipped to deal with COVID out of the rest of my generation in a really bizarre way. Um, like it wasn't, it wasn't easy. I mean, it really, really, really sucked not being able to have the senior year.
And beginning to spend a lot of time talking to people digitally, like even more time. Uh, you know, I definitely was not shy of having really long drawn out FaceTime calls, but a lot of my intimate connection came from really long, drawn out FaceTime calls and
Vivian: right in 2020 when you were sitting in your bedroom all by yourself, forbidden from seeing anybody or.
You know, meeting your friends or having a prom or having your senior dinners or anything like that, and then all of a sudden you have this like drive by graduation day where you're not allowed to talk to anybody, but you get to walk across the podium and you know, how was that for you in that moment?
Zak: There was never really an end to anything. There was never an end to the high school years. There's never an end to it. It just kind of felt like an event rather than a conclusion. And there was no, like, there just wasn't there. There was no kbo really put on everything.
Vivian: well, I mean, when you describe that situation of, you know, laying in your bed, not really able to move or function, uh, kind of, you know, living in a digital world, self-medicating, et cetera, honestly.
I think a lot of parents can relate to that. That's what I see a lot of is this, these young men who are struggling, who feel isolated, who are in a world where, you know they're being made wrong for a zillion reasons, and it's like, what the heck?
Vivian: standing here now where you are in a much better place, a transitional place? What would you ha and you know how much? How worried I was. How worried we were? Oh, oh yeah. What would you have told me? Knowing what you know now, what would you have told me then in order to A, get me off your back and B, give me some hope and solace.
Zak: So one thing like, I, like realistically, under, I, I was isolated from every single community I'd ever had. Uh, it was a locational thing. It was purely, I mean, like, it was literally like I was taking a break from school. I was back home in San Diego. The only people who are close to me are either friends that I've made,
Maybe a few friends I made online, um, and my parents. And like what would've helped me the most was just finding a sense of community and finding a group of people I could go to. I didn't know where to find it. There was no place where I could go in the situation that I was in, where like I would've been able to find it and it's like. I would have been able to bring myself out of that hole if I would've had that opportunity. I fully do believe to some extent I think I would've needed some help, but like I want help, work with me to find help. Don't impose it upon me.
So what would you tell a parent? I would say if your kid was anything like me or is anything like me, he's probably, there's something that he's sad about. There's something that's going on that you don't know that is going on, that he's hiding from, or they're hiding from, that they're running from.I think just a lot of people deal with this.
I think it's, I think it's relationships. I think it's like romantic relationships that seriously knocks these kids out. Um, and the way that we experience them is so different. There's no rule book, there's no manual, there's no instructional case on how to talk to people online in order to get them to like you.
But it's still something that is so important to the relationship of the dynamic. And a lot of people who might have certain, you know, certain mental disorders or whatever it might be, are substantially at higher risk of. Developing some really intense attachment issues. Um, so like, if you can imagine the infused, you know, capitalistic nature of social media sites, attempting to rob you of all of your time and your, and your attention mixing with love.
And the manipulation of that, like it's really, really powerful. I, I mean,
Vivian: Wow, that is so huge. That is really huge. So basically you're saying here you are, let's just say representing.
Young, young men or young people who are sensitive, right? I mean, you're a sensitive being. You're a sensitive soul. You put all of that together and now you are, you're young and innocent and kind of thrown into this world where. Everything's moving so much faster. There are all kinds of visual representations.
These algorithms are messing with you. You're trying to make connections, and you don't have the rule book or the tool book for how to deal with it,and you don't feel like you're successful with it, and so you get isolated.
Zak: One Thing that I definitely saw a lot of men in my generation go through was, um, a lot of grifting.
I could use so many bad words for these people, but a lot of people who took advantage of that lack of knowledge that men had and that discomfort, the simple discomfort that like a lot of us had. And they basically used it as a means to light a fire of hatred and anger of confusion inside of young men and to take advantage of their attention.
There's a lot of bad people online. There's a lot of grifters that I've seen a lot of men in my generation fall victim to, and it sent them down these crazy dark rabbit holes in places. Where they end up finding community with a bunch of other like-minded people. But it's all fueled out of hate and a lack of education.
I know so many guys who went through this stuff like it, some of us grew out of it, some of us didn't. Um, and the ones who didn't are. Struggling. Uh, actually there's new waves. I, I could go on and on about the incel problem in our world, but
Vivian: Well, let's make that another episode where we are just talking about that because I think that is such an enormous issue and I would just love to find a way and a movement to.
Empower you and people in your generation to pull each other out of that? 'cause it is not a happy place.
Zak: No, I think one thing that helped me out personally was finding people online who had similar values to me. Also simultaneously understood the problem and could be good role models for us as young men, because a lot of what we deal with it's just like.You know, you're, you're a cis white man, and like a lot of what is said online can feel like a barrage of hate towards you, but it's really not for, I mean, sometimes obviously there's, there's people who abuse it and will take advantage of it, but like if you can become educated on like societal issues.
Like a quick amount of time and like get a good foothold. Ycould become a lot more comfortable with how the world's changing and evolving around you. It's just outta love. You just have to, you just have to learn how to love.
Vivian: Oh, I love that. That is really it, right? I, I mean.
And to be in a place where you know that if you love, you will get love back. And I, I think that, that the big wound is we're all afraid. And I think in your generation it got super heightened because of all of the visibility and the likes and, uh, uh. You know, social media and gaming and the, you know, just like, honestly, we'll talk about it another time.
The incel and pornography and what young men in particular have access to. Um. That it just got really scared to show any love, right? To just show your vulnerability. Um, so I think finding those communities where you can do that is really important.
,So you've got COVID, you're that whole 2020 and around 2020 world had a different experience than anybody anticipated for you. Like the normal went completely out the door. Um, you're more and more isolated. Do you feel as though. That isolation and, and sort of paralysis about knowing the right thing to do, or the right thing to say that that led to more isolation, more fear about even making some connections, inroads, et cetera.
Zak: Yeah, no, I think the idea of being socially perfect is a thing that a lot of people struggle with, um, in our generation. Being like, you have to learn all the social norms and you have to know how to execute upon them in like a really direct way.
Vivian: I have so much admiration for you, how you stepped into mentoring and into mentoring young, young men, you know, what would you say?
To like a 16, 17-year-old who's kind of in this morass. You know, there's all kinds of substances available to you, there's pornography, you're isolated. You, you know, you got this, like you're supposed to be so fricking hip, but you don't know anything. Um, like what would your advice [00:19:00] be?
Zak: The 16 and 17 year olds right now are a whole different beast, man.
I mean, I know a lot of these kids have, like, in short, they've had access and have been doing drugs since 12. A lot of them, um, the way that they ingest media is very different to how I ingested media. Um. I think a lot of it is about giving them, they just need to learn how to critically think properly.
I mean, I like to, for me to take someone out of a hole, I find that I have to look to understand every single thing that is going on with them, and I have to get inside of their head and understand it, and me, I'm able to piece the puzzle together. And learn most likely why.
The way they are, the way that they are. The problem is, there's so many different reasons that they could be the why, why they are the way that they are. Um, they've had access to a lot of, you know, variations of media, um, and communities, and you don't know what the culture is like inside of those communities, especially as a parent.
And to them it's, it's, their first language is like the language that they speak, the rhetoric, they, they speak in those communities is their first [00:21:00] language. They're more involved with those online communities than they are with reality. Um, and the, the, the line in the bridge between reality and those internet communities is seriously blurring now.
And it's actually becoming now that like. The dialogue inside of those communities is what's happening in reality because of like just the overwhelm of it all.It becomes really hard for a parent who doesn't understand the dialogue in the community to communicate with their child anymore. In a way that the kid will understand,
Vivian: You know, it sounds like it's a really toxic environment to get yourself engaged with these online communities, not going outside, not being involved in sports or in community or in service. Um. I think that that's the struggle that parents have is how, how do you, how do you mitigate that? How do you just stop the madness?
Like what you were saying before, just there's so much manipulation of a kid's brain and why are they exposed to this to begin with and, and what is a way to just turn it off,
Zak: you know?
Like there's, I mean, if we're gonna be, I I, I'm not necessarily nihilistic about this. I, I'm a little bit nihilistic about it. Regulation. It just needs to be regulation. We live in an incredibly corrupt country where these technological giants that are worth more than any ever or any company has ever been worth by like a hundred times is [00:23:00] working in conjunction with our government.
In order to basically continuously allow the manipulation of these kids in information and media schools right now, the best thing that schools can do, unfortunately, 'cause I think it sucks that like this is not something that can really continue. And I know that a lot of schools are working, and I know that teachers have quit over, it is like they need to ban phones in school.
The stuff that exists on phones is just far too addictive and isolating now, like especially over the last four years, it's a completely different ballgame.
Vivian: I totally agree with you. I think these oligarchs who are the, you know, have, are, are supposed to be the heroes of our generation because they've created technology and that's created such a huge.
Uptick in our economy and in employment and on and on and [00:24:00] on. And in the meantime, we know we have the data. We understand that, you know, it's like Philip Morris and cigarettes, right? We knew for years. This is gonna cigarettes, were gonna wipe out an entire generation. And it did. And until legislation got on it, until the special interests were able to, you know, the, the, the, the will of the people rolled over the special interests, it didn't happen.
And that's what I wanna engage your generation and parents in. Activism to push forward on getting our kids happiness back. You were not happy. Nobody likes to see that in their kid.
Zak: It's a matter of education more than anything else.
This stuff exists. It's not going away. It's just not, it's, it's simple. I think we can put the genie back in the bottle. I
Vivian: at least, at least a couple legs of the genie. Yeah, I think, I think certain components of it can be put in the bottle, but I think kids need. Education around this stuff and how to deal with life.
They need life skills and life instructions. They need to know, Hey, if I spend this much time on my phone, because we feel it. Like, don't get me wrong, a lot of us feel how horrible this is. Yeah. Tell me more about that, everything exists there. It exists there more than it exists here, but is it an addiction? But I think, I mean, could you put your phone down?
Zak: No, we can't put our phone down. We, we'd lose everything.
Speaker 2: Really?
Zak: Yes. You cannot exist within modern society without the use of technology. It just does not it.
And I don't think it's, I don't think it's a bad thing, but we need to learn how to get our brains out of it.
Vivian: Yeah. So like what's one thing that you are doing? 'cause I know that you're addicted to your phone also, and I'm really happy to hear that you know it.
I think ultimately that is the, that is what I hope I live to see is that new generations figure it out for themselves, right? Because I can't tell you not to do it. I, I, I mean, we can have legislation around it, we can have regulation around it, but how does your generation say this, this shit is messing up my head and I wanna have a life in the 3D where I'm actually touching people and in community, and you know that that is the cure, right?
Zak: Um, no. I think my best moments pretty much in existence have happened online, um, times where I've felt the most passionate about things. The most connected to things have happened online. A lot of it has, not all of it, don't get me wrong, like I've had great times in person, but like, especially with my brain. The things that I find interesting. Personally, I cry when I see large scale communities from all around the world. People from all around the world, all focusing on one thing to create a new piece of art. Um, like that's something that I've cried over a multitude of times. Like I don't cry over stuff like that in real life.
Vivian: What is one boundary or rule you're grateful that we had? Even if you
hated it at the time,
Zak: Even though I hated it at the time and it went on a little too long. One thing that I definitely felt was important and impactful to the development of me and my personality, um, was not being able to have social media until later in high school. I think that ninth grade is a pretty all right time if we're, if we're being nuanced about it.
Um, but ninth or 10th grade.
Vivian: If you could give one piece of advice to parents who are watching their kids struggle right now and feeling really helpless.
Um. You know, 'cause I think you know, that we felt really helpless. What would one piece of advice be?
Zak: I. If they're in their room all day and on devices all
Day invite them to Maybe potentially sponsor [00:30:00] something that they can go and do with their friends? Um, get them out of the house. Yeah.
I think that if they've been trapped inside for a really long time, it's one of the most beneficial things to their health. It's kind of like they get recharged. Like I definitely know for me, just getting out one day I went to a concert and I was, I felt I was like, sick before and like after doing that, like I, uh, was no longer is sick.
Everything, everything that I was doing in order to escape and run and hide, I, I did much more with much, I'd limited myself pretty much.
Vivian: That's great.
That's great. Um.
Vivian:
How useful has it been in the backbone of your life to know how loved you are?
Zak: It has been. Very important for me to know that I, I have this sense that no matter what happens, I will always find people who love me and I will always have people who love me. And it's really, sometimes I can forget about that when I become so isolated and stressed out. I feel like I don't deserve love in certain moments of time. Being reminded of it I'm truly blessed to have had the experience with being consistently loved that I've had.
Vivian: Well, was I a bad mom?
Zak: No,I think you tried too hard to be a good mom. The best. I think it was, I think that it was counterintuitive at times, but I always knew no matter how annoyed or frustrated with you I got, I know I knew that you were trying to do the best thing for me, and as much as I hated it, I. I think I've always known that as we grow apart and further away from each other, the more I'll appreciate it.
Vivian: We all feel like bad moms when we see our kids suffer and struggle. I mean, there's no question about it. And you were definitely a, uh, resistantpushback. I can't do anything. Right? And so then you just end up feeling like a bad mom. Um. That's really good to hear. So, just in closing, um, as someone who's coming through kind of the other side of this, you know, you've just grown and developed so much over the last couple of years, what do you wanna explore or discuss in future conversations if you become like a regular part of this podcast?
Zak: I definitely want to
talk about young men struggle to find meaning and understanding and kind of getting that manual, um, how to, how to get that through a kid's brain. It's really hard.
Vivian: Um, yeah, I remember you talking about how like nobody, nobody gave you a manual for it and there is nothing and now it's just so difficult.
Zak: Well, there's the, the, the thing is that the, my belief around it is that there's people who you can watch online who are good people, who actually care and like are attempting to educate rather than fight. They're just ignoring all the bullshit. Now it's like, this is the way that you could do this and it's probably the way that you should do it, but like, I'm not gonna like, at a certain point, like the people who are trapped in these cycles, these anger cycles.
Um, like all you want to do is kind of help them.
Vivian: just say like, the number one most important thing for a young person
To Not succumb to the mental health crisis that is available to them because of technology. What would you say it is?
Zak: I think it is creating the most minor, non-invasive routine that you can possibly do. Get yourself outside. You have to start small. You have to spend time with people and just do it, you know, once every day, once every, you don't put that much pressure on it.
'cause it's the pressure that gets you to run away and look in your phone and escape. It's not, it's not, it, it just becomes so overwhelming and it's everybody's procrastinating.
Vivian: No, it just do the next right thing. One small thing a day. But it's, it's not
Zak: even, yeah, it's not even like doing one small thing a day.
'cause I. I find that the way that that's worded kind of actually creates a lot of pressure. but it's just like, just go outside and hang out with a friend for like an hour or two.
Um, go get lunch. Uh, I think I. It's scary to get lunch sometimes because it's money and stuff, but like, uh,
Vivian: that's why you're saying sponsor it.
All right. That's great. Thank you. Joining us, Zak.
Zak: Yes. Thank you for having me.
Vivian: I think this is the first of, uh, many conversations with Zak and some advice and mentorship from, um, someone who's going through it and been through it and, um, is continuing to grow and provides a lot of hope.
Zak: There's hope. There is hope. Even though it sounds like there's not hope, that it's just a, it's just a one by you gotta Yeah.
Vivian: Alright, thanks love.