Mini Mikkipedia - what is wrong with the Amway diet?

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Creators & Guests

Host

Mikki Williden

What is Mikkipedia?

Mikkipedia is an exploration in all things health, well being, fitness, food and nutrition. I sit down with scientists, doctors, professors, practitioners and people who have a wealth of experience and have a conversation that takes a deep dive into their area of expertise. I love translating science into a language that people understand, so while some of the conversations will be pretty in-depth, you will come away with some practical tips that can be instigated into your everyday life. I hope you enjoy the show!

Transcribed using AI transcription, errors may occur. Contact Mikki for clarification

00:09
Hey everyone, Mikki here. You're listening to Mini Mikkipedia on a Monday. And today I wanna chat through, it's probably going to be brief, some of the red flags that I found when I did a bit of a deep dive, as much as I could find, on the Amway diet. Now, I know you're probably thinking, hang on, isn't Amway that cleaning products company that's an MLM scheme that you can sort of sign up to and...

00:37
and everything is like shiny and fresh and new. And I'm like, yeah, actually that's what Amway is. But Amway has a diet. And the name of the diet is Weight Loss Coaching Works or WLCW. And I came across this initially in July when a friend of mine was discussing it that many of people that she knew had been successfully losing weight on this program. And she'd asked if I'd heard about it. And I tried to look a little bit deeper into it.

01:06
and I couldn't find too much information. And then since July, I've had several messages in my inbox and actually over the last couple of weeks had several messages from different people who asked again if I'd heard about it, who told me their experiences and then just shared some of the insights as to what the diet entails. And not only did it pique my interest, but it really sort of raised some red flags when I think about fat loss from a sustainability perspective.

01:36
Because let's face it, you can lose weight any which way. But there are so many diets out there and losing weight isn't actually the issue, it's keeping it off that is the problem. And probably unsurprisingly, the Amway diet has several red flags which I thought I would highlight just in case you were considering doing it. Now, what I will say upfront is that

01:59
people get really defensive about people ragging on an approach that has worked either for them or for someone they know. And they see it as a criticism, I guess. And certainly I wrote an email about it last week and someone messaged me back to say, well, it's pretty unprofessional of you to sort of rag on this diet, particularly when you were trying to sell your own diet. That's not that professional. I suppose it just highlights that emotional attachment we have to

02:29
protocols and procedures which tend to work. And I 100% understand. And in fact, one of the first things I said in the email was, I'm a PhD qualified nutritionist. I am giving you my objective reasons for why I think this diet is a problem. And of course, then I went on to highlight that Monday's matter was registering that week, which to my mind actually made perfect sense, if I'm honest, like, hey, this diet is not great. Here's a better option that's evidence-based.

02:59
But the reason for me doing this isn't because I just want to criticize another program that isn't mine. That is not what I do. There are plenty of very good protocols and programs that people can use to successfully lose weight and keep it off. This isn't one of them. And one of the reasons why I feel really strongly about speaking out on something like this is because if someone follows this approach, loses weight, and then regains weight as they are primed to do.

03:28
they'll be forever stuck in that narrative that diets don't work and that they're incapable of being successful in a diet. Or they can actually place themselves in considerable risk of losing bone and muscle mass that allows them to be strong and resilient and stay independent as they age. Like these are all things that I think about. In an industry like mine where there is so much propaganda and there is so much sort

03:58
do this or forever be fat, for example. I don't know, I just think not only is it in my integrity, I almost have a responsibility to sort of call out diets which go against basic principles of what we know works. Now, the details that I got from people that messaged me, and this diet, just so you know, it's definitely very popular down South Island.

04:21
I was speaking to a few people who were in Southland and Dunedin. I understand it's quite popular. And then I had a call with a client on Tuesday and she said it was all the rage in her workplace as well. And the program is run through Amway and it essentially starts with three protein only days. You know I'm all about protein, so that's not like the worst thing in the world. Absolutely. And then

04:47
In these protein only days, you have a serving size of protein, which may be 70 grams of cooked meat or an egg, which is equivalent to either 18 grams of protein, which you would find in the meat, or 8 grams of protein. That's a meal. And then you eat protein every 60 to 90 minutes as a snack, which equates to about half a serving size of protein, like half a boiled egg or an Amway protein bar.

05:16
And in addition to this, after the initial three days, you get to add in a serve of grains and a serve of fruit. So for example, you would have a piece of toast with your egg or a piece of fruit alongside your meat portion. And this is at breakfast and then lunch would be a serve of protein, a vegetable serve, a serve of fruit and two cups of greens. And then that is repeated for dinner.

05:41
The same rules apply with snacks every 60 to 90 minutes. If you need something, you have that half a serving size of protein or an Amway protein bar. And this extends to, I think about 48 days, although I'm sure someone will correct me if that's incorrect. And then you move on to some sort of maintenance approach if you need it. And as I said, people have been wildly successful in this approach. And also in addition to the food, you...

06:09
have a recommendation of walking 8,000 steps each morning before 8 a.m. And I'm certainly not arguing that people have been very successful on this approach. And as you know, I'm a big fan of walking and particularly to get people who may not have been active more active and get it done in the morning is actually a great strategy and it's one that I absolutely support. But success and weight loss isn't just the weight loss. So

06:36
That is actually not the measure of success. The measure of success with weight loss is, can you keep it off? And all of the people that emailed me about the weight loss coaching method were now struggling because of the loss of muscle mass, or they were unsure of where to turn or what to do next. The first thing I would say is that

06:57
Clearly this works and there are many people who could improve their health by doing something that reduces the excess body fat that contributes to their overall poor health status. And the quick wins that you would get from a protein only approach, which is what I use on Monday's Matter, in addition to reducing inflammation from the removal of foods they might have otherwise been eating, you know, not only is that motivating them or help them further commit them to the approach.

07:25
Overall, they would absolutely improve their health. Like there is no doubt in my mind that if you carry excess body fat and you're able to reduce that, that is gonna be a big win on the metabolic health front. And also those quick wins is very motivating for that individual. In addition, as I mentioned, walking first thing in the morning, it's awesome. It sets you up really well for the day. You get in steps that are often recommended for health, that minimum of 8,000, and fat loss.

07:52
And you don't run the risk of not doing it later on because life gets in the way later in the day. And that definitely is something which I see time and again. And we also know from a metabolic perspective, you will actually burn more free fatty acids when you walk or do any exercise on an empty stomach. So this can help improve that metabolic flexibility. So that ability to burn fat and carbohydrate rather than just being a straight.

08:21
sugar or carbohydrate burner. Although do note this doesn't mean you will lose any more weight overall and the research is quite clear on that in fact that regardless of whether you train fasted or you train fed as long as there's that calorie deficit is equal you will you will lose the same amount of weight. But there are some concerning features to this diet which is why I'm recording this podcast. So we know protein is important.

08:46
And having three protein only days initially as a once off is no big deal, I think really, for what it's worth. However, we do need a minimum amount of protein at one meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis and initiate that repair and rebuild cycle. Your tissue is always turning over. We are either breaking it down or building up muscle tissue.

09:09
And if you do not provide this minimum amount at one meal, you are never going to reach that threshold to stop that catabolism or the breakdown of muscle tissue to be able to build it back up. So you will be forever breaking down muscle and burning it up as energy, particularly in a calorie deficit state. Dieting is a catabolic state. This is a low calorie diet designed to break down tissue. You will be burning muscle and fat.

09:37
the weight will be dropping off, but you're not eating enough protein in one meal to preserve muscle. And so this then becomes a problem when it comes to maintaining your new found weight loss. There's less of that muscle tissue there that helps preserve your metabolic rate and therefore allows you to eat calories that is realistic for you to be able to maintain that weight loss goal. So the amount of protein you need in any one meal really does depend on your age and there's no

10:05
fixed number with which beyond this age you need X amount. But if you listen to the experts like Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, Professor Don Layman, Dr. Layne Norton, they are advocates of at least 30 grams of protein in a meal, if not higher. And Professor Don Layman has done research showing that older individuals require around 40 grams of protein in a meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, to get that threshold

10:35
to initiate that repair and rebuild cycle. The amount of protein recommended in a meal on the Amway diet, if it is 70 grams of meat, that is equivalent to around 18 grams of protein. That's less than half that you otherwise need. Now, if you are a younger individual, let's say you're 30, it's still recommended that you get 25 to 30 grams of quality protein, of which meat is. So this still runs a little bit short of what you need.

11:05
What we know to be important for protein to help preserve muscle mass and to help provide the necessary stimulus to also do a number of the roles that protein does in the body for fat loss is at least 1.8 grams per kg body weight would be the absolute minimum up to about 2.4 grams per kg of body weight depending on who the individual is. So if you do the math on

11:33
the amount of protein that is recommended in this diet, at the highest amount, if you had three meals and three snacks, it would be 54 grams of protein coming in at a meal, and then it would be another 27 grams of protein coming in if you had three snacks that had half the amount of protein in them. That would equate to just over 80 grams of protein, 81 grams of protein.

11:58
For that to be enough protein from a fat loss perspective for an individual, that individual would have to be around about 40 to 50 kilos to begin with because it's 2.4 grams per kg of body weight. And I'm being generous actually and not very good with my math, but you get the point. Many people are coming in a lot heavier because of course weight loss is a goal. So a lot...

12:23
of what they will be losing will absolutely be muscle because they will not be protecting their muscle mass because they do not have sufficient protein on board. My next sort of red flag with this diet is that eating every 90 minutes is distracting and you could be hungry a lot of the time. And this is why I think it's best practice to avoid having to eat as often as this and instead eat three full meals. So when you are dieting,

12:52
it's more important to pull on the levers we know, really assist with appetite regulation. And that includes obviously protein, but also volume. If you have two cups of greens and a fruit serve and a veg serve, that might seem like a lot of food, but for someone who is a volume eater, it's actually not that much, particularly because you have such a low amount of protein in that meal. But the...

13:16
that initial feeling of satiety will not last, so you will be hungry again in 60 to 90 minutes. And it might feel like it's fine for you to then eat again, but it is just distracting. It's distracting and it makes it more difficult to concentrate on other things that are important in your life that are unrelated to your food intake, like your work, your family, your extracurricular activities, any other workouts that you want to be doing, which I'm not sure that you are encouraged to, I don't know that side of things.

13:45
It's not part of the sort of base program to do the strength based training that would also help preserve muscle mass, but other people might do it anyway. So this is one of the reasons why it isn't recommended as best practice to eat little and often throughout the day. And I don't understand the rationale behind this actually, behind any of this. I wonder whether Amway even have any dietetic support that helped them devise this approach because it's absolutely not best practice.

14:15
and it absolutely sets people up to fail. I wonder whether it harks back to a historic belief that when you eat little and often, you sort of stoke that metabolic fire, which, and this has been well debunked, so I'm not sure. I don't know how else to, or what else to say about that. Now, I'm not sure how compulsory the supplements are, actually, and I definitely have had feedback from some people that said I was harsh and it doesn't cost $700 to buy into the program, which is what...

14:45
you know, three people, three different people told me, but anyway, one of the other pieces of feedback I got was that someone wanted to eat a, you know, a beer stick for a snack as opposed to an Amway protein bar. And they said, no, you must eat an Amway protein bar. So I'm not quite sure about that either. That might not be your experience if you're doing the diet, but if you are relying on and having to buy in to supplements and protein bars, it's quite expensive.

15:11
That's all I will say. It's an expensive way to approach fat loss. And as I said, almost everybody I spoke to about this diet did drop weight and along with it, they dropped muscle and then they regained the weight. And as I sort of said at the start, this will just further strengthen the narrative that diets don't work or that they have failed in their approach to diet and they themselves are the failures. And one of the

15:36
biggest shifts that people have to make going into any approach is those self-limiting beliefs that stop them from being successful in this space. Like if you go into an approach thinking, well, this probably won't work, but I'll give it a bash, well, it won't work, will it? Because you've got that underlying narrative. So if one thing goes wrong or if you don't hit one meal or you can't help but dive into a packet of chips because you're so starving.

16:02
you're going to further perpetuate this idea that you've failed. And I just think it's just such a dangerous narrative to be beholden to. They may do a lot of work on the mindset piece. I don't know. Who knows? Because I found it very difficult to, in fact, find out about this. And I really hope that they do. But I also hope that some of the smart coaches who are recruiting people for the diet, they may want to instigate other measures that build on the...

16:30
the premise of this Amway diet and just make it more successful for people. And some of those things could be to double the protein at each meal. Take that snack out, double the amount of protein that people are allowed to eat, and then encourage them to do strength-based training in the program to help support the preservation of muscle and bone. And then just don't tell people that they need to rely on these Amway bars. Like give, and I'm sure other coaches do.

16:58
give them the opportunity to eat just those protein rich foods which aren't as expensive and are as effective, if not more effective, than protein bars, which you guys probably know anyway. Protein bars are a pretty diluted way to get a protein source in because of the number of calories that you have to consume to get the amount of protein that's in that food. So if you sort of weigh it up against egg whites or shrimp or chicken breast or something like that, a protein bar is...

17:27
not a great way to get your protein in. And what I would also just say that, hey, this might be just these five or six different people's experience of the program, and maybe they just had a terrible experience with it. And maybe what I've been told doesn't reflect the nature of the program. And if that's the case, absolutely let me know, because I would love to understand better the approach, if it's not how I've sort of outlined. But if it is, there are just better programs out there.

17:57
And so I would ask some questions, look a little bit deeper, and then maybe go somewhere else. Like my Mondays Matter program has now closed shop for the September round. So that's not an option for you right now, but there are other options out there. Just because someone is able to easily lose weight, it can feel tempting to just be drawn into something that will give you these quick wins. And then you think, oh, I'll deal with the maintenance piece later.

18:26
but it is difficult to maintain weight when you have dropped a lot of body fat and muscle mass at the same time. So, you know, the goal with weight loss should never be that it's a race to the finish. The goal should be following a plan that you can in the long term see it as your forever approach to diet. Because ideally you would still be eating in a way that supports your health in a year, two years, five years, 20 years down the road, right? So,

18:56
I am just not convinced that this is the thing that will allow you to do that. So that was my little rant. Let me know your experience, always super interested to know. And if I've got any of these details wrong, please, I apologize in advance. But also try really hard not to be emotional about it and get angry with me when you email me like unless you yourself actually designed this diet, there's no reason to take it personally. I'm on Facebook at Nikki Willard in nutrition.

19:25
I'm over on threads, Twitter and Instagram at Micky Willardin or head to my website, MickyWillardin.com. And if you do want some solid nutrition advice, you could book a one-on-one call there with me. All right, team, have the best week. See you later.