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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Beyond Words: FBI Chaplain Scott Sommer on the Healing Power of Presence
00:00
All right, welcome everybody to the Restorative Man podcast. This is Cody Buriff hosting with my good friend Jesse French. Jesse, how's it going? Good Cody. How are you, man? I'm doing well. It's good to be here with you. And it's also good to be here with another long time friend of mine, Scott Sommer. Scott, how are you today? Good Cody. Great to be here. And Jesse, thanks for having me as well. Yeah, man. Thanks for joining us. I'm just going to go a little bit off script and
00:29
you and Cody have like a long history, which is really great. And I'm sure you the dirt that you have on him is probably like pretty extensive. So you don't need to like give us your like the most revealing Cody Buriff story. But let's just like what's a little lesser known fact about Cody Buriff that only you know, like only the diehards would know of which I think you're part of like one of the little scared of what's about to come out. Scott, you just purposely didn't say this beforehand. So I know the story.
00:57
of Cody and his wife's like first date or long time together. I don't know if that's been shared on this podcast. That story has not been shared. But I also married Cody, not married, but officiated his wedding. And then also our first interaction was kind of an argument. Oh, really? So this is so good. Okay, that's, this feels like the place to be taken. Let's All right. Praise God. That's good.
01:24
So 2006, I had started a summer mission trip with crew called the Northwoods project in Northern Ontario. And it was fantastic. was, it took forever to get this thing started. All this bureaucracy. They first sent me to Alaska for the All Men's Project up there. That's not bad by the way, to be sent to Alaska to learn from this other ministry. But I had to write a paper proposal, all that. finally got this started up in North Bay, Ontario.
01:52
super excited and then I'm talking to the guys. had 29 guys that year, 29 college men, which is, uh, it's kind of tough to get that nowadays on summer mission trips and for crew or any other ministry. And it was just all guys, but, uh, we were going back and forth on entry into the country. just to cut it, I'm a sophomore in college. Helpful data, helpful data.
02:21
So we had already been in the country multiple times. Okay. Made it past the border. And so I was telling the guys on email, you know, here's how you get into the country. You don't need a passport, but you need a driver's license and that should be okay. then, so then, but then Cody was, think responding to all on this email and saying, Hey, I just checked this out. Hey, good to see you Scott. All these exclamation points, you know,
02:47
trying to kind of stay friendly and, I saw this and I don't think that's quite correct. Like correcting me. It says you need a passport, which it does on the US side, but on the Canada side, it doesn't require a passport. But then, so we went back and forth, you know, and it was escalating a little bit, you know, lot more escalation. I love the email escalation. it was like, can't to see you, bro. Okay, buddy. See you, friend. And then.
03:16
Now, finally, started talking like either on the phone or it was just the two of us emailing back and forth. But I do remember it escalated a bit. And I'm like, I'm asking these other staff guys, who is this guy? You know, what is this guy's problem? You know, why doesn't he just follow directions and just be cool with that? That was my introduction to Cody Baruff. That was 2006. fantastic. And now the rebuttal period starts and.
03:45
Scott and I are actually leading this summer.
04:09
with restoration project, a group of fathers and sons up to North Bay, Ontario, same place where we went actually the exact same place. I went to soft and gonna float plane into the wilderness, the North woods and it was an epic trip then it's gonna be now. I'm probably argue about how to get into the country. I hope you do and yeah.
04:34
Episode two, I want to hear the loadout. For what it's worth, did have a participant email me with, like the Canada website says we need a birth certificate. I that. And I laughed when I saw that, dude. Oh, that's amazing. I'm like, fine, whatever, dude. You already won over this. Sounds familiar to me. Anyway, Scott, you've been a good friend for a long time.
05:02
And one thing I know you've been to a couple of groves and several guys know you, but what a lot of guys don't know about you, what we want to kind of explore today is some of what you actually do now. You're not with crew anymore, not in campus ministry anymore, but you spend a lot of your time as a chaplain and specifically some of that chaplaincy is with the FBI. Can you tell us a little bit of like, what does that actually mean? Maybe a little bit of like how you got into that space in the first place. Just introduce us to that.
05:32
Yeah, absolutely. My wife and I were on staff with Crew for 25 years, different assignments at Ohio and overseas trips. Wonderful experience. I grew up in a law enforcement family. My dad was an FBI agent for his career that organized crime, Philadelphia, Washington, Cleveland, primarily La Casa Nostra, which is Sicilian mafia. It's really kind of gone down today, but
06:00
It was very big in those days. was kind of, you know, a lot of crazy stuff, know, Godfather stuff, car bombings, you know, Hey, let me give you some cement shoes, all that. And my dad, my dad kind of was involved in all that winter to cover a few times, which that is kind of a funny story in itself. But I just kind of grew up in that environment. And then on the various assignments that places, you know, college campuses, we were assigned.
06:26
I ended up becoming the chaplain for either the city or the college police department. And so I started with like local police chaplain ministry and I actually first became a chaplain at Miami university in Oxford, Ohio. And I was doing ministry actually. And I was uptown with my car parked trying to share Jesus with a guy and build into him and disciple him. But, wouldn't you know it, my meter went out and I got a ticket.
06:53
And so I went in and I just said, Hey, know, can you guys, um, you know, just do a one-time favor here. I'm a little late. Uh, got a ticket, 25 bucks, but they said, well, you got to talk to the chief. So I went in and talked to the chief, kind of stated my case and he said, well, I'm not going to let you out of this ticket, but we could use a chaplain. And I said, huh, you know, what, what is that exactly? I had heard, I'd said a vague idea of what a chaplain was.
07:20
I knew it was a spiritual, a religious figure kind of connected to law enforcement or military, kind of a secular organization. But that was kind of the beginning. Became a police chaplain, did a lot of ride-alongs, responded to critical incidences. And then when my dad passed unexpectedly in 2009, that's when I kind of started pursuing with the FBI about becoming a FBI chaplain. Wow.
07:49
So your negligence in your paying your parking meter like actually led to a job. That sounds really judgey of me, but like you're just easily oversight. Like we've all been there, right? But that like actually was the doorway to that space in the new location. That's amazing. Trying to get out of punishment is what led to this. That's one way you can define it. It's all the other ways too. That's hilarious. Scott.
08:16
Maybe just fill out a little bit more of just maybe from a little bit broader perspective, like what the work of chaplaincy entails, or maybe a better way to ask that is like, what is your role? I'm sure you are invited into just a variety of situations, but overall, when you think of the role of a chaplain, like how do you describe that? For the FBI's purposes, the chaplains fall under something we call EAP, employee assistance program.
08:44
And so they've also got professional counselors in there and these EAP peers that are specially trained FBI personnel. Then the chaplains were basically the spiritual advisors. And so what EAP is, is it's just an availability. It's a support option for FBI personnel. so with the chaplain, chaplain's role, I guess, threefold, you know, first of all, you you need to have a top secret security clearance. You have to have all the clearances.
09:13
the ability to be in that space, you know, just, you have to be checked out and all that kind of stuff. Um, so that you can kind of be, I never look at anything cool, you know, or anything. just that you can be in the room. But the first thing is critical incident response. And, know, I'll define critical incident as either an agent and evolve shooting, um, either they're fired upon or they have to return fire for some reason. A lot of that is SWAT related or search warrant stuff.
09:43
And then also there's terrorist attacks. And if you guys remember New Orleans, you know, that whole thing, unfortunately, a lot of times FBI, because they have the evidence response team kind of gets involved in those types of mass casualty situations. And then the last thing is really presence ministry. And that is where, frankly, you just kind of hang around. I do, I guess you could call them rounds every couple of weeks in the office where I'll just walk around the entire office.
10:11
Talking to people, Hey, what's up? How you doing? You know, shooting the breeze. A lot of times joking with people or they'll give me crap for, you know, something or whatever. One time guy gave me a Zen and had Zen and SWAT team guy. And he, was, I had to sit down after five minutes and I was like, I got to sit down. He just thought that was the funniest thing ever. But, um, you know, doing Zen is not part of the job description, but you know, just kind of just hanging around and, know, ask questions about people's family.
10:40
I'll take prayer requests. Sometimes I'll pray right then and there, you know, at someone's desk. So that's a really nice part. And then I'm also, I also go to SWOT training operations and just, you know, a variety of different things, ceremonies. And so that's the presence. And then the final part for me as a Christian, as a Christian chaplain really is discipleship. There's people that, you know, definitely want my input. You know, you kind of understand who those people are pretty quickly.
11:09
But there's other people that, hey, you know, they want discipleship, you know, they want me to sit down with them and look at the Bible together, pray with them. You know, I have lessons that I'll kind of put together. I do want to say one thing about being a chaplain that's characteristic is that even though, you know, I'm a Christian, we try to be chaplains to everybody in the whole department. That is just a kind, supportive person. If I can't help in terms of a religious aspect or if someone's of a different religious faith.
11:39
Then our job is really just to be a resource and try to help them connect. I've, I've helped people connect with Catholic chaplains. connected, um, somebody with a Jewish rabbi once. And we also have, you know, there's also rabbi chaplains, FBI chaplains and other, there might be a couple of Muslim chaplains, but it's really kind of a religious pluralism environment, if you will. But you know, myself as a Christian, I'm certain that's the perspective that I come from.
12:08
Scott, what are some of the challenges that you run into in the chaplain's? Uh, challenges. Well, I mean, it's a little heavy, you know, because no one calls a chaplain when they're having a good time. You know, when you get a phone call or a text, it's always bad news. I've had to respond to a few suicides. I also do, um, the United States secret service. A lot of times when you're a chaplain or one agency, other agencies ask for your help. And so.
12:38
I also do secret service and those are some other stories there, but, yeah, generally people come to you when things are not good. Things are difficult, painful. There's just been a tragedy or someone's worried or nervous about either a family or personal situation or a work related circumstance. Yeah. So that's heavy stuff to hold, I guess, hold space with. have you learned in the midst of that? I'm like, as you're saying that I'm like, man.
13:07
to be able to navigate maybe even sounds like too, you know, efficient or productive, but just to use your words to like hold space in those trying times. Like what have you learned over the years of, cause on some level, right? It's tremendous honor, right? That someone would say, this is going on. want someone else to be with me. And like you said, situations are incredibly difficult. So yeah, how have you been shaped by that experience? Yeah. I mean, it's.
13:34
I've always told people there's not anything special about me. I don't feel like there's anything special about me. I'm just a normal guy, person, human being. I remember even thinking like, I'm not really qualified to, know, somebody's just been found deceased or they took their life in a garage and they're slumped over, you know, because they had, you know, they did carbon monoxide poisoning and I show up and the family's there. Right. How am I qualified for that?
14:04
And it's like, you know, I felt like God showed me over the years. It's like, well, you're not, no one's really qualified, but if you're a man of faith, you have that to offer. You have that hope, you have that comfort, you have that empathy and compassion. And I'm a man of faith, but I'm not a trained counselor. I'm not a licensed counselor. And frankly, licensed counselors don't even know what to say a lot of times. And in a situation like that, there's really not much to say anyway.
14:31
other than I'm sorry and hugs and being in the moment, presence ministry. So I've definitely learned that's not the time to say a lot, but it's more of a time just to be. I also think about Job and his friends. think, you know, when he was going through that, I believe, I know they, they got lambasted later Job's friends, but I think they did the first part good where they sat Shiva for seven days or whatever.
15:00
just hung out with them. And I think that's kind of what a chaplain's role is in a lot of ways until a person wants to talk or is ready to talk. And then it's a lot of it is listening. that makes a lot of sense. Scott, know you, um, so in addition to FBI, in addition to secret service, in addition to law, local law enforcement, more recently, you've also kind of stepped in to do some chaplaincy with hospice.
15:29
And so now you're some of the chaplaincy that you're doing is with people who are passing from this life into the next. And I would imagine that would be a little bit of a different scenario for you, a little bit different experience. you tell us a little bit of what that's like? Yeah, I'm almost just ready to have a conversation with God. like, Hey man, why do you keep putting me into these like ridiculous roles? You know, but again, it's like, you know, I think a lot of us as men of faith can really do that.
15:58
more than we realize. I think it takes courage to stepping into that or walking into a room, a family, but you know, bravery. But I think the hospice chaplain just kind of, I basically was just asked to do it. You know, I think somebody found me on LinkedIn and I had not even really considered hospice chaplaincy, but it's actually been a pretty decent fit. I don't think I could do it full time because it's, it's quite a bit heavier to be honest. Like you said, people are actively passing.
16:27
I've been there probably when, you know, at least 10 people have taken their last breath. that's, that's sobering. That's very poignant. That sticks with you. So that has been an opportunity just to minister and make things a little bit better. think that's, guess something else I would say is just trying to make things a little bit better for people. And obviously as a Christian, I like to and want to share my hope and really what grounds my life. But there's an appropriate time for that.
16:56
If that makes sense. And yeah, the hospice work is definitely pretty intense. A lot of times people aren't as, you know, they're not completely coherent. There is a cognitive deficiency. And when you're also kind of actively passing, they want to make you as comfortable as possible. So a lot of times people are on morphine and that makes people feel better. So they're not, you know, really like freaking out or so.
17:25
Scott, I'll ask a question that is maybe a little more theoretical or philosophical, but as you're talking about, I love the word presence that you talked about, simply being with people and actually that shared company being such primary benefit, maybe more than offering of words. Maybe sort of like zooming out. I love that chaplains exist, that there are people like yourself that are available.
17:52
that have the posture of offering presence, of not letting people be alone in the midst of incredibly difficult spaces. I'll ask this question and maybe it's sort of blunt, but like, what would need to be true in today's world for like chaplains to not be required? So that's like, that's kind of a pie in the sky question and don't hear it at all in a criticism. I'm so like, so grateful that you're there, but.
18:19
Yeah. What would need to be true around our lives, our relationships in order to look at a world where like chaplains aren't needed. That's a great question. The question is kind of a similar question. think about what would it look like if counselors weren't needed? Absolutely. Yep. And I'll be honest with you. This is a plug for restoration project for all of you out there. And some of you are not familiar with restoration project, but
18:44
I was at a point where, um, a couple, about a year and a half ago, I really felt like I needed counseling. was in a really difficult personal situation and I'd already been to a few groves and I'm like, you know what? Like, I just need to go to the grove. I mean, counseling can help by all means, but if I go there, I got like 25 other counselors and encouraging men and men that want to hear my story and have compassion and kindness, but also.
19:14
humor and adventure. And so it struck me that at the Grove and, you know, part of the ethos of restoration project, those types of things are what will make a chaplain no longer needed. If we were able to support one another and you know, I'll be honest, I think a lot of people struggle. I've had so many people say, oh my gosh, I couldn't do what you do. It's like, nah, you can do it. You know, it's like, it's not comfortable. It's sad. It's scary sometimes.
19:43
But that's what real life is, right? When you're talking to your kids or you're talking to your mom or you're talking to your wife, it just requires that a bravery and that willingness to be present and to engage. And so I think if we had bravery, we were willingness to engage. I don't think, you know, the world necessarily lacks empathy. It's just a question of like, I think fear keeps people away. Like I don't want to say the wrong thing.
20:12
So I say nothing or I say, well, if you need anything, let me know. Well, that's the worst thing to say. You know, show up with a casserole, show up with your lawnmower, just do stuff. But we feel in our culture, I feel like death is one of those things that is kind of hush hush. You know, in the Middle East, they, know, back in Jesus day, the professional mourners, I don't know, the people that scream the most or loudest voice. don't know, but.
20:39
In our culture, we try to get as far away from death and suffering as humanly possible. And I think that if we had more of the confidence to step into that, into people's lives, then we'd have far less need for a professional chaplain and a professional counselor. And I will say to you guys who are listening, like the restoration project has been that. And that's why I keep coming back, you know, cause I feel like I can be known really in a way that I haven't.
21:09
been before and accepted known and accepted. And, then we have fun, you know, then you can screw around and be guys and do fart jokes and all this kind of stuff. And, know, I get to beat Cody at arm wrestling. That's story right there. was there. I was witness. So if anyone up there, you know, is, listening, please consider coming to the Grove. If you haven't before.
21:37
You know, it's real, it's authentic connection. really is. It's cool. Sorry. I'll jump in and just say like, when it comes to grieving and grief and like end of life and all of those things, that's something that I personally, when I look back at my history, have not been good at, frankly. I remember, I'll share two or three quick, like, you know, bullet points, but it's like my youth leader died when I was in high school in the youth group. And I think I cried once.
22:07
that day and then kind of moved on, you know, and then a few years later, my grandfather died and I did get to see him in hospice. I did get to say goodbye to him. It was really a one way conversation, but then he passed and I don't even remember if I cried after that. And then now I feel like there's a few things that I am grieving. I've got a friend who is actively dying.
22:33
And I've got my grandmother who frankly has dementia and is not the same person. And so for me, like I have a hard time spending time with either of those people because for something about it just feels when I get close to that loss or frankly death, I'm not sure what it is, but there's something in me that gets uncomfortable and gets a little bit squirrely and wants to like just not have to deal with it. And so I'm.
23:00
I'm amazed at how you're able to step in and that's something I'm getting better at, frankly. But like stepping right into it, right into the hard, awkward loss and pain that is, you know, wrapped up in grief and death. I just wonder what other words would you have for guys who struggle to feel grief and or be with others who are grieving? Yeah, that's great. As men, typically
23:29
A lot of times we're not comfortable being weak, right? Feeling weak or uncomfortable. I want to feel competent. It's totally reasonable, but with death, it's hard to feel competent because you don't have the right words. You know, you can't fix it. Can't make it better. And so you just be, you just be present to you or in the moment. Like we're talking so much about today about mindfulness and I, but I will say, I, I understand what you're saying, Cody, because prior to this, I was.
23:58
I got really nervous and terrified about death and dying and actually other people that I knew that were suffering. was kind of afraid to be around them because it just made me scared about myself, but also them. And I think really what has cured that for me is being a hospice chaplain. And I'm around it so much that it's not as scary anymore. You know, I'll go.
24:25
I'm at an assisted living place right now walk out this door and I'll spend time with three people right now that are passing away. And I'll make some jokes. We'll laugh. I'll pray. I'll sing some hymns. Lady was singing hymns with me yesterday. It's just a precious thing, you know, but you know, just the more that you put yourself into that, the more comfortable I think we can become being uncomfortable. makes sense. yeah, and I think that
24:53
I love that you said that because I think that layer of our own comfort and I would say that it's connected to that, like our perceived level of control, right? Generally when we're in a comfortable situation, we feel that we have more control, whether that's true or not, but at least we feel that. And so to step into a place, you know, as someone is dying, it's uncomfortable partly because it's like, man, I am not in control of this at all. Right? Like there is, there is no driving this bus to a different outcome.
25:21
And so I'm with you and like, that feels uncomfortable. That feels maybe like the last scenario and the last situation that I want to willingly choose to be in. But I wonder what gets drawn out when we consent to spaces like that, when we do say this is not in my control. I am engaging. I'm participating in some way, but it is not in my control. What do you think? What does that enable? think, um, yeah, Jesse, thanks. I just think of Paul's words, when I'm weak, then I'm strong.
25:51
And I feel like maybe in these moments, it's like, we just rely on the Holy Spirit. We just rely on God for strength. There's a person that I see who has something called Huntington's disease. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's similar to Parkinson's, but it's, think it's even worse and it's always fatal. And this person has been passing. I've been seeing them for three years and I've just watched them decline from when they could talk and move to just where they're at now.
26:20
just watched it and there is nothing I can do about it. I sit there and I pray over them. I pray and I just be there and I, like you said, there's absolutely not one thing I can do other than that. And so I just try to provide that strength, you know, of presence and care. And, know, when I'm in those situations, Jesse, I feel like, you know, I could say with Paul, when I'm weak, when I'm in this, I can feel strong.
26:48
But then you also just feel like you're blessing people, which is just a fantastic, there's just such a great feeling, feeling like you are being a blessing to someone else. You're providing care and comfort to them, even though you're really not doing anything. And I think that's some of the like goodness, wile-iness, cleverness of God that like you're saying, yeah, I'm really not doing anything on a level you're not, but on one level you are choosing to be with, right? You are choosing.
27:16
to be alongside with them that they would not be alone. And so, yes, that is not three points of teaching or some amazing eloquence, but it is- a lot of coding. Right, right? But it is saying, no, I'm going to be with you. This is a sacred enough space that I don't want you to be alone. And to me, that feels like such the tension or paradox or the mystery, right, of yes, it is not doing anything outward and yet it is offering such-
27:44
Such a needed beautiful gift to actually be with. good. And I would just say too, I mean, I'm always praying, constantly praying as a Christ follower. I'm praying for salvation. I don't know the spiritual condition of a lot of these people. really don't. There's few things I can do and ask, do you believe in Jesus? Have you ever trusted Christ as your savior? Or I'll find out if somebody had a church background, but you know, sometimes just those things aren't really enough to know where someone stands spiritually. So
28:14
I just find myself kind of, I don't want to say the word retreating into prayer, but just like this is the best thing I can do. It was just pray, pray for them, pray for them to know God, comfort and peace, that God would work through me as his agent. And there is a satisfaction there. I will say it can wear on you. And that's where I need to talk to other people and kind of dump my stuff.
28:40
And that usually happens with my wife. My wife is the designated dumper. Although she were here, she would make a comment, but I love you, Emily. Don't dump on me. Shut up. But she's a good listener, but I'm also a Enneagram for so I feel the need to emote, if you will. But then when I'm done, I'm good. You know, then when I've talked
29:10
and processed and all that, then I'm ready to keep going, you know? So Scott, I'm going to make a little bit of a left turn and maybe go back a little bit. But Scott, if you could tell one story from all of your chaplaincy, whether it's FBI or otherwise, local law enforcement, whatever, if you could tell one story, whether it maybe it's the craziest story or the
29:39
most intense or the one that you felt like God showed up the most or maybe it's all of those. What one story would you share? I definitely say the most intense one was when I had to give a death notification to a 14 13 year old boy. His mom had taken her life. And they're like, Hey, we want you to go talk to this guy. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. So so as myself and another sheriff's deputy and
30:07
You know, we approach this kid and the deputy just kind of said what happened. And then like looked at me and was like, okay, go ahead and take over. And I'm like, I'm, I'm out. got nothing, you know, like, and at that time I think I had young kids, but I just remember what he said to me, said to us, well, that the deputy left right after that. And he said, I bet you think I'm going to cry now. And it just broke my heart because.
30:38
You know, he was just trying to be a tough little kid and you can't beat me. You can't get the best of me. I just sat, I, I just took that in for a minute. I'm like, Oh, you know, it's totally fine if you cry, you know, it's like, I mean, this is your mom and you know, no one's expecting you to be like, you know, a tough guy or strong guy. It's just, but I could just see in his heart, just like he wanted to.
31:06
You know, he'd probably been fighting a lot of things in his life, you know, up to that point, but, know, he was thinking I was coming with a knockout blow and it just kind of was heartbreaking. And I've prayed for him ever since then, you know, I never saw him again, but I've been praying for 25 years, a little over 20 some years for him. So that was a, you know, probably the most intense one.
31:31
Maybe if we talk about a few other things, I can figure out a really happy one. Sorry. That's so intense and thanks for sharing it. Cause I think that just a small glimpse right into the heaviness and the importance of that space and that work and the mystery of that, right? Like all of those things. think that story honors your work really well. I could, if I could go back, I just feel like I'm a lot more confident as a father now.
32:01
And I've been a dad for 21 years. probably still be there with them. You know what I mean? Like it was hard leaving. Like how do I leave? When do I, you know, but I'm just a lot more confident just as a dad now as a father. And I probably would have just sat there and hugged him as long as he let me be. And probably, you know, did the best I could to, you know, even in kind of follow up with him. I mean, he still had his dad, but it wasn't a great situation, but. that's such, I'm sure that's.
32:29
As is the case with all of these scenarios, right? There clearly is the other person that's present, right? And their willingness to engage at whatever level or not engage, right? And so obviously there's no forcing that young boy, right? To like say anything or to receive that, right? There's offering, there's invitation, but there's obviously that's the other person in their own agency over that. And so that feels like that only adds to the complexity and the mystery of it, right?
32:56
Yeah. I can't have the magic phrase or anything like that. That will guarantee. I just thought, yeah. just thought of a happy story a little bit. There was an agent that was going through SWAT training. And I think, I don't know if it's, I'm guessing it's not as intense as like Navy SEAL training, but it's tense. know, it's intense FBI training, some of the most intense you can have. So I was talking to him and you know, we were talking at night and he's telling me he's like, I might fail out. I might flunk out of this.
33:26
You know, somebody told me I'm on the bottom right now. You know, it's this is they rank you and I'm like on dead last. And I'm like, well, what's going on, man? He's like, Oh, you know, it's, know, making mistakes, you know, like tactically or whatever, or, know, just whatever that is. But then he's like, I just feel like there's, you know, demonic presence and I'm just getting all these negative thoughts and all that. And so I ended up, I think praying with him every night for several, I mean,
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It was very, it was several weeks long and we prayed every night for quite a while. And then he's like, guess what, man, I passed the last day. And he's like, I couldn't have done it without you. Thank you just so much for your support, your prayers and your encouragement. So, how else a guy get out there with SWAT, know, Scott, thanks so much for joining us, man. Thank you for taking some time out of your day and just giving us a window into.
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your own life and to the work that you do and just the encouragement that you've offered. Thanks for the time today, man. Yeah, thanks, Jesse. Thanks so much for having me, guys. Definitely. And I'll see you shortly in Canada. We'll expect the border update 2.0, probably years later, decades later. We'll see how it see who gets in and we'll see who is sitting at the border crossing. right. We'll see who gets back into the United States.
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That's right. That's right. All right. See you later, Scott. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me on, guys.