Dr. Sara Jordan

What is The Morning Groove w/ John Nasshan?

Highlights and extended interviews from 91.5 Jazz and More's morning show.

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Hello, this is John Nash from The Morning Groove on 91.5 Jazz and More, and my guest today is Dr. Sarah Jordan. Sarah Jordan is a licensed family and couples therapist who has a wonderful background and a great outlook on helping people to help themselves. So let's listen in to what we had to talk about. Hi Dr. Jordan, how are you? Hi, thanks for having me today. Can I call you Sarah? Absolutely. Okay, I was most interested by something that we'll touch on maybe a little later in the interview, solution-focused brief therapy. That sounds really interesting to me, but before we do that, what led you

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to be a therapist? Great question. I get this question a lot. I actually grew up with my father being a funeral director. And so you might see the parallels there, maybe not, but to me it was about our everyday life. My parents met at the funeral home. Actually my grandmother passed away and my dad was this director on the service. I was told that my dad was embalming a body when he got a phone call from my mother saying that she was pregnant and that was, of course, me. An only child. So I grew up in the funeral home. I was very close to my dad and back in the day the funeral homes had ambulance services too. So he would run the ambulance at night and he was the funeral director during the day. And so he worked 24 hours on and off and so when he was off and I was little, I was at the funeral home with him. And I consider that my second home. We lived around the corner, and I feel very comfortable in that environment, unlike what most people feel like in a funeral home. So I knew that I wanted to work with families because watching them in grieving situations and their interactions was fascinating to me. They're a very small family, and to see how they interacted under times of stress and grief, I was just very intrigued by it, but I was very clear that I did not want to be a mortician. That was not my thing. So my dad was very gracious. He never pushed it. He always invited, said, you know, if you're

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ever interested in this. Yeah, I grew up in a large Italian family that had morticians and funeral directors, and my uncle went one step farther where he actually lived above the funeral home. It was an old building on the south side of Chicago and we played in the funeral home, we spent time upstairs and it was just something we grew up with. And it was always interesting, you know, big funerals in the Italian world. There would be like 200 people in the chapel at the funeral home. I briefly touched on this before we started to record. In the old Italian neighborhoods, if someone had a very small family so they would feel respected by everyone, my great-grandfather and my uncle would hire professional mourners, ladies from the neighborhood, that would put on their black dress and their sensible shoes and say the rosary and cry a little bit.

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Very interesting. I've heard stories about that. I've never witnessed that experience, but it's very, very interesting.

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And what I noticed first when I was a kid was my uncle's compassion.

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Yeah.

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And you must have to have tremendous compassion to work with people the way you do.

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I would say I learned that from my father as well. And I would say my dad's unique. He's not just a regular funeral director. I don't know if there is such a thing, but he volunteers to work with the hardest cases, the infant deaths, the baby deaths. He's part of FEMA, so he does disaster relief. He was at 9-11. He does plane crash recovery. I mean, you name it. So he doesn't do just the typical run-of-the-mill stuff, but yeah, it takes the amount of trauma he's seen and has been exposed to is incredible, and he's so compassionate. And when people meet him, and having known him my whole life, people say he's just got this gift to connect with people to be there in their moment of grief, and he's just so comforting and

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Yeah, well and that must have prepared you for family and couple therapy I think so because there's a large amount of grief involved with couples and family therapy

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Absolutely, and I tell my clients often we think of grief as in death But grief is loss and losses and so many things. Divorce, relationship dissolution, disability, health issues that come up. There's so many things in our life that we're presented with that grief and loss come up.

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Can you tell me a little bit more about the SFBT, the Solution Based?

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Absolutely. So as a master's student at Purdue, I was fortunate enough to get to meet and get to know the founders of this particular approach, Solution-Focused Brief Therapy. My mentor, Jan Bavlis, I want to just mention her name, she passed away December 12th this year. And she was in family therapy, she was at the MRI, which is our big family therapy kind of birthplace. And so she knew the people that developed this model. So I was very fortunate to have several different people in my life that helped me with this, but helped me to get to know this approach. What is unique about the model? Brief therapy, some people think, well, that just means one or two sessions. Not necessarily. Brief means that we focus on what the client brings to that session. So I could see this person one time ever, and I've done that. Sometimes I meet with them weekly for a period of time or even off and on for years, but I often tell my clients that I'm kind of like you're sick when you go to the doctor, you come see me when there's an issue, we've set a goal, we work towards that goal and once that goal is resolved, we can be done unless they have another goal to work on. So that's sort of the essence of the approach in terms of the brief. And solution focus means that we're more interested in what the client's desired future is, more so than the details of the problem. Because the problem and the solution may not be necessarily connected. Let's say a parent is struggling with drug abuse or drug addiction, and their main goal is to get their kid back. Yes, they may have to stay clean and sober to get that kid back, but the motivation is getting their child back. And so we ask them, what is meaningful to you? We really define that goal so that it makes sense for the client.

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Yeah, I was kind of turned around by a psychologist years ago. My father passed away when he was a very young man. He was 52. And I was angry. And I went to a psychologist and she worked on me instead of my problem and it helped me through my problem. That really kind of turned me around. The other concept that I read in your bio was microanalysis. What is that?

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Great question. I mentioned my mentor Jan Bavlis and she actually developed this methodology. Microanalysis of face-to-face dialogue is an approach in which we can analyze communication like we're having a conversation now. So if we were to videotape both of us and you can see both of our faces, you can see gestures and facial expressions, and we decided we wanted to analyze the questions that we're asking each other or you know the responses, whatever it might be, we have a inductive procedure using software that allows us to inductively, quantitatively, and qualitatively measure the process of our conversation. So it's very detailed. Projects can take up to two years sometimes, depending on what we're looking for in the depth that we're doing this. But I've used that methodology to research the model with the hopes that we can really gain a sense of what is solution-focused therapy, how can we train other people to do it? And then for efficacy purposes, how do we know that we're doing this and that we're effectively doing what we're saying? We're doing validity of it. What is your main purpose at the School of Medicine? Great question. So I am the program director and grad coordinator for couple and family therapy. So we have a graduate program that is a full-time accredited by CoAMPTI, which is our accrediting body, two and a half year face-to-face program and I'm the director of that program. So my duties include administrative things, I teach, I do research, and I do service as well. That's great. Yeah, one of the

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things we are very conscious of at 91.5 is our mission statement of Teach Inspire Connect and that's important especially in the setting of UNLV is that I've been in Nevada for 47 years. My exposure to UNLV came as a musician many years ago. And it used to be a university with a bunch of schools that didn't like each other, and now we're all kind of working together. And it really impresses me that that happened. I can't pinpoint why, but it did.

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I've noticed that too. I will jump in. We are in the School of Medicine and there are other clinics on campus and the directors of those clinics and myself right now, we're in between clinic directors, we meet on a regular basis and we talk about collaborating. And in most institutions that doesn't happen. It's usually a turf war and everybody wants their own space. But we really do collaborate and work well together and it's just a joy to be here. I love being at UNLV. What brought you to Las Vegas? Was it UNLV or was it something else? It was. I was at Texas Tech for 12 years and I had a good experience there. There was an opportunity here at UNLV to be the program director for the couple and family therapy program. And that was something that really interested me. I was at Texas Tech, I was at a doc program. We had a master's program, but it was smaller and the focus was really on our doctoral students. And I love working with doc students, don't get me wrong. But when I taught master's level practicum, that's where I really, really enjoyed my experience training people to be therapists. I love that. So the thought of coming to a place that has just a master's program, and I don't say just, but that's our focus, which is cool, and being the program director of that was very appealing. Our School of Medicine is

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so young that it's kind of a ground floor thing that could be fun to

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build. Absolutely, and I came from the state of Texas where there were mental health and medical professionals on every corner, and you come to Nevada and there's such a need here and so I wanted to be at a place where we were you know promoting workforce development and we were really training people to work with the

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community because there's such a need here. Yeah we seem to be in a city where there's a personal injury lawyer on every corner which is kind of interesting and that probably brings a lot of people to psychoanalysis as well. Psychoanalysis, pardon me. Now, so you have a family?

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Yes, I do.

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Yeah?

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Little ones? I do. I have a 7-year-old, a 9-year-old, and a just turned 16-year-old with a driver's license.

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Uh-oh.

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Trouble.

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So now, do you ever catch yourself accidentally psychoanalyzing them?

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No comment. My husband's also a therapist.

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Oh, goodness.

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So there you go. Our kids are in trouble, right?

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Yeah, they don't stand a chance. You'll know what they're doing all the time.

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Yes, hopefully. You know, that's the thing about having a family of your own and being a therapist. He is a therapist and we kind of joke about that. You know, we feel bad for our kids that, you know, we're constantly watching.

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Well yeah, but the thing is a lot of parents, I went through it myself with my son who's now going to be 40 this year, where I wish I had therapy knowledge at times. I did something with him that worked. You know how kids get to be 14 and they don't want to talk to you anymore? Well, on the advice of a friend, I took him to southern Utah to a fishing lake, got a boat, rowboat with a trolling motor, went to the middle of the lake, dropped the anchor and just sat there, observing the rule that the first one who talks in a negotiation loses. And after about 40 minutes, he said, are we going to just sit here? I said, not anymore, I've won. You're talking again.

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That's a great story.

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It was fun. And he still talks about it today. He said, Dad, refresh my memory. Where'd you go?

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Because my son's

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nine it'll come soon enough you know that's great now if it hadn't been for what you do now what do you think you would have done oh my gosh that's a

0:13:03
great question well growing up my mother was a nurse and my dad is a funeral director I did not want to go in the medical field I just there was something about that part. I wanted to help people so if I wasn't a therapist I always knew I wanted to go in the helping profession, so I would say probably something related something helping people My seven-year-old recently asked me. He's the entrepreneurial in the family He said mom what what job can I make the most money at and I said well not being a service provider helping someone probably, probably going into business. But I just knew I was geared that way. I was not focused on the financial aspect as much as helping people. And I'm sure it's because that's what I learned from my father. So yeah, I'm not sure what specifically, but I did know a few things. I knew that my parents always worked holidays, and weekends, and evenings. And I said, I would like to be in a job and a role where it's optional or it's not, you know, I don't have to work Christmas. So I knew that going into things. So I think that was another reason why I thought well

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maybe I won't go the health care route, but yeah. Yeah, I grew up as a musician. I'm a percussionist and drummer and I still do it. I really didn't mind not having holidays and things. It may have been cruel because when I was married, we never had a New Year's Eve because there was a lot of money to be made. But it was me, and I'm still, I like creative things. And I got into radio because it's fun. Yeah, I think you should enjoy what you do, absolutely.

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And I'm the same way about creativity. The other thing that I knew that I didn't want to do growing up is have a nine to five job. So while I didn't want to work, you know, Christmas, I also didn't want nine to five where I did the same thing every day. I wanted variety. And that's when I got my bachelor's in psychology and thought, okay, I'm going to be going to graduate school, you know, to go all the way here. And I knew pretty early on that I wanted to be in a faculty role because I started teaching as a master's student. I love that. I love the research. I loved working with clients once I had that opportunity and I really want a position where every day is different My schedule is slightly different. I'm doing different things So that really being an academic really was appealing to me

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Yeah, I've discovered by being part of the radio station at UNLV that I really enjoy mentoring the students Hmm. Oh, absolutely. That's why I'm here It's the students my ultimate would be to have someone that I mentor to be a broadcaster take my job.

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That would be awesome. That would be great. I am, you know, I'm in contact with some of my former students from Texas Tech in my old appointment and some of them are now supervising their professors and then they're bringing, you know, their students to conferences and it's so exciting to see that next generation.

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Well testimony to your ability to teach and inspire is that they stay in touch.

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Yeah, that's true.

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That's the best award you can get when you teach as far as I'm concerned.

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Yeah, I'm very fortunate. I've had some excellent students and I try to keep that communication open with them. I tell them, you know, even though I'm not supervising you anymore, even though you've graduated, please stay in touch with me. Please keep me updated and it's so fun. They will occasionally text me or call me or send me an email and it's oh that's my favorite part.

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One of my favorite things is when some of the kids that I've mentored at UNLV will come to my studio while I'm on the air in their cap and gown on their way to graduation to thank me. It's a great feeling. I love graduation that's one of my favorite days of the year. Yeah it's great and I want to thank you for coming in it's been fun. Absolutely thank you for having me. Very enjoyable, very interesting. I want to thank all of you for listening and keep listening to your favorite radio station. I don't know if Sarah, if you're aware, but we are the 2022 Beats Magazine Smooth Jazz Radio Station of the Year.

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That's amazing.

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At 91.5. Voted by listeners nationwide. So keep listening. Sarah, thank you for coming in again. You're so welcome. Have a great day. Have fun with your career and thank you for contributing to UNLV.

0:17:18
Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day.

0:17:20
And this is John Nashun from The Morning Groove telling you thank you once again. And this is John Nashun from The Morning Groove telling you thank you once again. You're listening to the only radio station you should listen to. 91.5 Jazz and More.

Transcribed with Cockatoo