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The Laws of War and Peace with Rav Shlomo Katz is a series based on Hilchos Milchamah VeShalom by Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, opening up the Torah of מלחמה ושלום for the times we are living in right now.
In these episodes, Rav Shlomo explores the halachic, biblical, and inner spiritual foundations of war, courage, national responsibility, emunah, and redemption. Through the lens of Tanach, Chazal, and the living reality of Am Yisrael, this series asks: How is a Jew meant to think, feel, pray, and act in a time of מלחמה? What does true gevurah look like? How do we fight evil without losing humility? And how do war, mesirus nefesh, and miracles become part of the unfolding geulah?
Good morning everyone boker tov chodesh Tammuz and being le'iluy nishmat בתיה פייגא בת ישראל and refuah shelemah Shlomo sorry אתל שרה בת חניה יעקב שלמה בן בילא and for zivug hagun for Esther bat Bracha the week sponsored by Yudie and Michal on honor of Shai's birthday and in honor and memory of Yudie's grandmother's yahrtzeit רבקה רחל בת מרדכי and memory of my our grandfather חיים יצחק בן נחום יצחק הכהן. What's what's the date what's the date today? Tet. 24th. Tet.
Tet. Tet. Tet. Tet Tammuz.
We know we know we know we know. Yontiff is today. Michael and Cindy Liephey in memory of Liora bat Zelig. The Finns, I gave love with my eyes.
That's love. If Shlomo were coming out of a cave right now it'd be very dangerous. And by the Finns hakarat hatov for the limud and davenning for the refuah shelemah for דוד נתן בן איילה אהובה and the refuah shelemah אברהם יעקב בן דבורה פייגא נחמה בת דבורה פייגא בתוך כל שאר חולי ישראל. Okay this is a new topic that we're doing today.
Pass these around. Yeah today will be b'ezrat Hashem the last learning that we're having for this zman in this sefer and the last shiur we'll do is this is going to be this Friday b'ezrat Hashem. Okay. So this is a fascinating topic, very inter- very, very interesting one.
Everyone has? Yofi. Let's look inside b'seder gamur. Do you have? You have it? Okay. So the- this is a- if you look at the koteret it's page 100, page 100.
Matzbi, hamatzbi is a warlord, meaning the matzbi, the head of the of the tzava.
האם מותר למצביא לקחת סיכון במלחמה. How do you approach sikunim? A sikun means a risk. Are you allowed to take risks in war? So we have to what we're going to be seeing this obviously through a halakhic frame and through a hashkafic frame as well because this is very much kashur to our into our inyan, very much kashur to everything that we've been learning.
But it really goes to the beginning because this is dealing with the roots of why there's opposition to Zionism and just brushing it off like we've learned already will lead you nowhere and it doesn't bring to any ahavat Shechina and incorporating into our in into our looking at Am Yisrael you have to we must understand why it's whether you even if you hold obviously that the foundation and the proclamation of the of the founding of the State of Israel is a part of the geulah and everything there's a huge chunk in Am Yisrael that does not see it like that, right? Now who's included amongst those that don't see it like that? Satmar? Many, many people that we learn from and that we we they're they are massive inspirations. I mean I'll just give it a very I'm just going to say it right now because I don't want to shy from it. Lubavitch. Tell me something about Chabad.
Are they Zionists? Absolutely not. Are they the bigger are they the biggest lovers of Eretz Yisrael? And of Am Yisrael? Absolutely. Are they going against the government, against the Medinah? No. There are those that hold that like like Lubavitch that it's this is not the head this beginning of the geulah.
There's a famous letter from the Frierdiker Rebbe that refers to the proclamation of the state as choshech kaful umuchpal, absolute darkness because when you think that something is geulah and that it's not that's very that that's when it becomes very dangerous. And it's it's boiled down to this thing of like such a divide but I want us to get I want us to get out of the divide and realize it does it really matter if I call it a certain name or not? Like do does how much does it matter that I title something this is the actual beginning of geulah versus I don't know if I have the ketefayim, the shoulders to I can I really say this is the beginning of redemption and but yet I feel that this is a massive, massive jump towards the geulah. Does it how much does it mamash matter? And I think we get stuck in these things way too much, way too much about saying is it or isn't it? Like I don't know, to me the halakhic... The healthiest approach is not getting stuck in taking a side on saying it is or it isn't but just looking at Am Yisrael and looking at Eretz Yisrael and with our hearts and with our love and I see your faces you all want to throw a chair at me right now I don't really care but a stool.
A stool. Okay. But these are important inyanim but it boils down to this was it mutar for Ben Gurion to declare a state? So even like you say what do you mean was it mutar or not? Like why wouldn't it be mutar? And how what would be if he didn't? Right? Let's learn instead of just having our opinions and our blood boiling the whole purpose of these shiurim is again to learn these things inside. Everyone's okay? It's like we've done heavier things no? Is everyone okay? Not that much.
Shocker. Shocker. On a brave note I spoke to a Charedi Rosh Yeshiva yesterday. Say it again? I spoke to a Charedi Rosh Yeshiva yesterday.
No. You spoke to a Rosh Yeshiva yesterday. It's amazing no no but it's amazing do you see like what whatever he's going to say now is all will all be through this lens of how he defined the Rosh Yeshiva. That's true but two days ago you were talking about sing not like a sing like a Chassid not like a Misnaged.
Right. No no that's different because there's no heter to be a Misnaged. Pardon? There's no heter to be a Misnaged. Okay very good but there's a heter to be a Charedi.
In the wisdom of Solomon. Thank you. We all see things through our lenses. Yeah but the problem is that he may have something very much that may speak to our neshama right now but because he said a Charedi Rosh Yeshiva.
But that's true if the person self defines as Charedi if somebody self defines as Chabad and you say I spoke to a Chabad Rav. It's not that. Now you're going to shut up now right? Hold on hold on. Lo mekabel bichlal but you have to come to the shiur at three for Shabbos to understand why lo mekabel because I'm talking about this on Shabbos every Shabbos now every Shabbos.
It's the root of machlokes. The root of it. The root of machlokes is not opinions it's division. It's division and somehow because we live in the world if I walked into a Charedi yeshiva and I said I want to tell you I spoke to a Zionist rabbi and they said a vort they'd throw you out.
Not they'd throw me out they won't hear. They shut down. If I ever quote Rav Kook they look at me like I'm crazy. Okay but you know what you want me to play devil's advocate and if I said other names of rabbeim that for you are a you can't handle you can't stomach? Who? Ani lo omer.
Ani lo omer. All the Chassidishe rabbonim. That's not true. My house is filled with representatives from all also.
I'm just saying Steve Steve deep breath Naftali this better be good lechayim. This if this is like shvach then it's already retracted. It reminded me of one other thing that happened. Oh okay.
Anyways this small anecdote was that this Rosh Yeshiva from America was Oh from America. No no I'm kidding okay fine go go go. That's completely different. That's a chutzpah look at this no no we're not going off the rails look at us.
No no but this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You say chutz l'aretz rabbi but in a different way. That's why you have to be a Chassid of the Rebbe and just say a rabbi said zehu a Rosh Yeshiva said zehu zehu in my opinion yes.
No no the important thing came to me after this hold on but he was saying how there's big hafganos today they're doing shayarot of protest going on. Right you just showed me yeah. 19 yeshivas. So he was actually telling me he said he said the beautiful thing is at least all these different Chassiduses that you'd never be able to get to go out together there's already achdus in the shayarot because they're neged something in the shayarot.
But I realized toch k'dei I realized I was with Rabbi Norman Lamm alav hashalom's son yesterday upstairs he was here. He was one of the yeah he was one of the which one? Shalom. Shalom. Really? Yeah so he was here yesterday and I remember growing up in these yeshivas and his father was considered posha the worst posha the first thing he said to him because just I don't know anything your father I grew up your father was a first of all we just finished interviewing a vegan so having a guy named Lamm right off the bat was metzuyan no but I realized how Am Yisrael I didn't grow up in the YU world so to me all I heard was I didn't even know if this guy was frum.
I just knew this guy was Rabbi Lamm. No, be'emet, be'emet, for me that was like the ultimate. That's unfortunate. But I realized toch kedei because when I was in that room with in between that I was messaging with this Rosh Yeshiva and Rabbi Lamm was saying how he grew up with like death threats in his house, like his father was under vicious and Rav Mordechai Gifter and this and that that came out against him and I realized that the Rosh Yeshiva that I'm speaking to was a talmid of Rav Mordechai Gifter and I realized that mitachat lashetach beneath all the headlines and politics and this, Am Yisrael really loves each other, be'emet they do.
On a human level, on a person to person level. I was speaking to the Rosh Yeshiva who was a talmid of Rav Mordechai Gifter and I was in a room with Rabbi Lamm's son and I realized that we're all one be'emet. Underneath everything we're all one am and all these politics and machloket and all this be'emet, be'emet, be'emet. And then the other story that came up because you mentioned the American rabbi, Jen brought up and actually Jen Erlich brought it out also, she didn't want to mention this, but she said, not everyone watches your podcast they don't know what you're talking about, we're trying to get our numbers.
Yeah, Shlomo's back. But she said that it took a while to find her son Binyamin's tefillin because in Gaza and they had it and they finally ended up getting the tefillin back weeks later. And her other son was becoming Bar Mitzvah. It's like, here's the tefillin you're going to give.
And they're at the Kotel, he's putting the tefillin on and there's an American Rav there and so she was saying this difference between Yerushalmi and American and Bavli. She said he came over, he goes, is that Binyamin's tefillin? And she goes, yeah. Who asked that? This American Rav, she wouldn't say who, but this American Rav that was there, she just defined it as that. And she goes yeah.
So he said, forget it, nothing, forget it. She's like what do you mean forget it? So finally like a father, he goes, what do you mean? He goes well Binyamin, it was his brother, he was killed in Gaza and the tefillin, I don't know, it probably reminds him all the time of him and I just don't know, I'm just a little surprised that you would have him wear it. She was by Rav Asher Weiss and she says, we have the tefillin found in Gaza, he's wearing it and he says that's the holiest, that's an aliyah. She stopped me when I said fallen soldier, she goes stop, it's an aliyah.
And so the way she interpreted it was that this is just like the tam, the hargasha, that Yerushalmi, Bavli. So even when you do say American there's something there, there is something there, there's something there, there's a huge difference, just a huge difference. See? There is though. Even in the Torah that's passed down, I know, but we're trying to find what's not different.
Yesterday my dear friend Yummy Schachter he told me a gevaldik thing that he wrote up for Gimmel Tammuz how it came out in chutz la'aretz, sorry, but it came out in Parshat Korach, not Chukat like by us, right? You're just hitting yourself. No, I did it to point out how it's shtuyot, how it doesn't even matter sometimes be'emet. Korach, he said a beautiful thing. He said that Korach's whole thing was it's so easy to gather people together to form a negative, to form something that's against.
That's not a chochma. That's not a chochma. Like the fact that there's achdus today because all these different groups are forming together to go against something, this is lo chochma and it's not so beautiful. The whole anti-semitism, the depth is what the Rebbe did.
The Rebbe formed people to be together for, not against things. That's chochma. That's the greatness of the Rebbe, of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. To gather people together to be for.
I hope that the bottom line of what we're doing here is mechaven to the same thing. It's not an inyan of trying to convince the convinced, it's not the inyan to try to make sure that we are stronger in our life's choices, but it's davka to see when we learn inside a sugya like this and we ask a question, was it right that Ben Gurion, was it okay that Ben Gurion proclaimed a state? We're not doing it to show more divide, we're doing it to understand how people could be against it and not just brush them off as meshugayim because they don't believe like us. Because it doesn't work. Nothing comes out of just showing how we're right.
It doesn't help anybody. Okay? But we're right. No, kidding.
האם היה מותר לבן גוריון להכריז על המדינה.
So the question Rav Eliyahu is asking מתי אנחנו אומרים לא תירא מהם ויוצאים למלחמה של מעטים מול רבים וחלשים מול גיבורים ומתי אנחנו אנחנו אומרים אין סומכים על הנס ונמנעים ממלחמה.
זו היתה השאלה הגדולה ביותר שעמדה מול מתתיהו ובניו. The question is when do we say don't be don't be frightened don't be scared you're a little bit of people but go against the masses you don't have that much weaponry but don't worry there'll be a miracle and when do we say like the Rambam paskens you don't rely on miracles and you avoid going out to war not because you don't think the enemy needs to be wiped out but because practically on a metzius level on down-to-earth on a realistic level it seems that this is not the right thing to do. Obviously I know what you're all thinking if that was the approach then we should have never even come here because our existence even today is completely a nes.
It doesn't add up it doesn't make sense that you know Lebanon Syria Turkey Iraq Jordan Iran Egypt sorry no there's peace accords right yeah it's very Shalom. And we have Shomron. Who? Chutim? Oh yeah Chutim the Yemen like it doesn't make sense. But resistance during the Holocaust? Zo hasheila so this was the question of Matityahu and his sons also right?
זו השאלה שנמצאת היום מול עיני כל חברי הכנסת והשרים ממשלת ישראל.
This is also the question that's in front of all the eyes of those that are elect are you know our officials that are elected officials.
זו השאלה שעמדה מול עיני בן גוריון שהכריז על הקמת המדינה כשלא היה לו נשק כמו שהיה לערבים. When Ben Gurion got up in Tel Aviv אני מכריז בזאת על הקמת מדינה right? What what was he thinking? Like you're you're you're proclaiming there's a there's a state here right? Is that en som is that is that relying on a miracle or was there actual like tactic involved there analyzing the situation and saying I think it could work? So to any bar daas you have to understand that that proclamation is much more like Matityahu uvanav like the story of Chanukah than or like you could say like Nachshon the only thing is Nachshon believed in God so there's a little bit of a difference going on over there but we'll get back to that later. But Matityahu's call was Mi la'Hashem elai.
Nakhon. And that wasn't exactly Ben Gurion's call unfortunately. We laugh but then when we think about why it's not so pashut for many people to accept what he did you can't just brush it off. En ma la'asot.
Of course we'll still hold what we're holding but you can't just brush off the fact that so many God fearing Jews who were davening for 2000 years ירושלים עירך ברחמים תשוב that the return to Israel is a Godly movement and the person that's leading it it's I don't want to say bad things about him chas vechalila. That's not my inyan either. But when for 2000 years when we said ירושלים עירך ברחמים תשוב it didn't exactly pan out the way that it's come about. That's all I'm going to say for now.
I'm going to be pushing your buttons the whole shiur today it's fine. Did Dovid Hamelech come about the way that we anticipated him to come out? Slicha? Did Dovid Hamelech come about the same way we anticipated him to come out? I'm saying like was there even anticipation at the time of Dovid Hamelech? And did it work wait a second did it work out the way Hashem wanted? I don't know did you think Hashem wanted Dovid Hamelech to build the Beis Hamikdash? Slicha tone it down achsheli we're not in chill. She'bemet bemet chill. This is me chill.
I know. Te'raga. Te'raga. I love you and I and I agree with that chessed sure.
I'm not angry I'm passionate. My passion is mistaken for I get it I get it guys guys guys this is my one of my Rebbes talking I it's okay. The that question's a very loaded question. Did Dovid did it pan out the way Hashem wanted? You want to go through Dovid Hamelech's life and answer that question? It did because it happened.
Oh so did the disengagement and so did Oslo. Right. Does that mean it was the right thing to do? It happened. Does it mean it's the right thing to do? But it happened.
Ma ze meshane? We don't act like that. We don't act like we don't live like that. 40 years in the midbar happened that wasn't l'chatkhila. Right it's because the meraglim.
But it happened. Of course you could say everything's ratzon Hashem after the ma'aseh. I'm but we're not acting like let's see how we could bedieved the brains out of ourselves. Wouldn't it be nice once in in our lifetime to actually live a L'chatchila life or at least attempt to? Do you have any example of that? Have you ever lived a L'chatchila life? The fact, the fact that it's Bedieved now doesn't mean that have we ever lived a L'chatchila life? What if it was Shlomo Hamelech? Maybe there's that small window there? Right, really.
We were on top of the world. Just a moment. Fifty, seventy thousand, that's it. Mass wives, horses, come on.
And even then, maybe there was a couple golden years. There was other than that, have we ever lived L'chatchila? And we're the ones that are going to do L'chatchila? To continue our conversation from yesterday, yes. There's no stira. Whatever was, was, doesn't matter.
Why should that, why should it be that even if it never was the way that we're describing it right now, that means that, that means that it shouldn't be? I don't follow you. I can only look to history to see how it, doesn't mean I need to keep doing the same things, but the way our history is is Bedieved. It's just the way it is. Break the cycle.
No, no, he'd rather hold on to the Galus mentality because it's safer. I understand. Our history is Bedieved because there's never been, we're not Malachim, so obviously everyone's made mistakes in the course of history. It's just the shaila, do I choose L'chatchila to live Bedieved or not? Be'emes! Since that's the truth, so do I choose L'chatchila to live in Bedieved? Even the Ishbitzer would say it's assur, and he's like the Rebbe of Bedieved, right? L'chatchila, we don't ever have a certainty.
That's part of our problem. We're no longer living in days of Nevi'im where if the Navi said do this and we don't, we could easily say we did not do the L'chatchila, which is to follow the Navi. Without Nevuah, all we can do is what we think at the moment to be correct, and hopefully listening to some and we choose which Gadol somehow pierces our hearts. Let's say like this.
How about we choose one area of life that we're going to live L'chatchila and let's see if it works. Okay? Now what's the one place I'm choosing to guide direct us towards a L'chatchila? That every Yid wants L'shem Shamayim. That every Yid wants the best and every Yid in his heart, like you were saying before, is Kodesh Kodashim. I'm gonna work from that L'chatchila.
How's that? Threatening? Sounds great. No. Can we start from there? Yeah? That's how the Rebbe lived, that's how Reb Shlomo lived like L'chatchila level. And that's what I'm trying to do with the way that we're going through this Sefer.
Can we exclude driving? Excuse me? Can we exclude driving? We've waited for the revelation. Yes. Yes, we can exclude drivers. Yes.
Okay. Let's go back into this very simple text that we're learning today. Again, second paragraph: זו השאלה שנמצאת היום מול עיני כל חברי הכנסת ושרי ממשלת ישראל.
זו הייתה השאלה שעמדה מול עיני בן גוריון כשהכריז על הקמת המדינה כשלא היה לו נשק כמו שהיה לערבים.
לא היו לו חיילים. He barely had soldiers.
ואלה שהיו לא היו מאומנים. They weren't even trained.
They were three years, three years post-Auschwitz so it may have taken a few minutes to get strong again.
מולו עמדו צבאות של עשר מדינות מצוידות בטנקים מטוסים תותחים ובצבא גדול ממנו עשרות מונים. We just, we have no hasaga of this, the amount of enemies that were so much more powerful than we were back then.
איך הצביעו איפוא שרים דתיים בעד הקמת המדינה? How could you even have had religious ministers, observant Orthodox ministers voting in favor of proclaiming that there's a new entity, it's called Medinat Yisrael? Meaning the question that Rav Eliyahu is asking, which is a gevaldig one, he's saying based on how we hold that we don't rely on miracles, that's not the way we rely, that's not how we live L'chatchila.
How could it be that they were so much in favor for the hachraza on the Medina? It's a very interesting, he's talking halachically right now. It's a very interesting question. Is that okay with everyone so far? No, I just want to draw a parallel. Moshe Rabbeinu took Am Yisrael out from avdus, k'ilu Auschwitz of hundreds of years, to believe that they could go out and do what they had to do, they were somech al nissim and they only got the nissim after they had ta'anos.
What am I going to eat? HaKadosh Baruch Hu brought a nes. Didn't promise them and we expect them throughout Chumash and there are HaKadosh Baruch Hu gets upset with them and Moshe for sure gets upset with them because they're not ma'aminim. How can you expect? So there's a parallel when we went out of Auschwitz into Eretz Yisrael to somehow create a state. What was the alternative for the Jewish people? Manna was falling down from heaven when we came out of Auschwitz? No.
No. You mean you had a consistent well of water nourishing you while you came out of Auschwitz? I'm not saying that. But you drew a parallel to a time where these things were happening. But there wasn't a consistent well of water until after they went out and after they were supposed to believe that they were going.
And be-nissim and by and since 1948 there's been lots of nissim. Lots of nissim. We've had we've had infinite amount we've spoken about it all the time. And lots of nissim.
None of them are like the nissim gluim that took place when the in the era that you're discussing. The nissim gluim are around us daily. But you believe it and I know you've made that point. Steve I I'm the biggest I know I'm the biggest proponent of it but I'm trying to but we're looking at people again again again Steve to try to push that right? That doesn't work.
It doesn't work so you'll go home and you'll be much more confident in yeah exactly. It works for you that we are doing what we have to do. B'seder but I'm trying to and we hope HaKadosh Baruch Hu will. We could keep on saying that which we are already convinced of and that which works for us but that that's not why we get together and sit and learn.
I know I'm sorry it's not what I it's not what interests me.
זה לא מעניין אותי. It's very interesting to hear and learn the different. We haven't even gone through I know so far we've we've barely gone through two paragraphs the shaila we're we're putting a shaila out there.
The shaila is is it mutar was it mutar for religious sarim right to vote in favor of the proclamation of the Medina at a time at a time where that seemed insane. Now all of us are beneficiaries of the fact that they did right? But that still doesn't take away from us the need to ask. The shaila is legitimate that's that's all we're doing. But the same shaila is was it mutar for many rabbanim at the time to say better you should give up your physical life but your neshama should live on and chas ve-chalila don't go to that accursed Zionist.
I know he hasn't he hasn't asked that question yet. No but both of those but both of those I'm learning from a sefer. He hasn't asked that. Okay.
Because we don't have a navi we have to follow. Yeah but that actually proves their point even more. Of course we don't know the fact that there is no nevuos that's what I'm saying. We just need to let him ask a question I'm trying to explain it that's it.
Yeah Rob. Sorry out of total ignorance. When Ben Gurion made the declaration yeah these Chasidim were already living in Israel and he made he made allocations he made he made it so that they would want to support him did they did he. Do you know who all these do you know who all the the anti it's amazing.
Do you know who really all the people that are suffering from the fact that there's a problem with the draft who really they should blame? All of them. Not not I'm saying from the the Zionist parties. Ben Gurion. Ben Gurion.
It it this did not start in the 80s with the rise of ultra Orthodoxy in the 70s. Chazon Ish with the Chazon Ish. Yes it was rooted this is rooted in the foundation of the State of Israel. This is not a chiddush.
No that's exactly what I'm saying they supported him because of the of what he allowed them to do. I don't know if they supp it's hard to say they supported. They joined the government. They acquiesced.
Right that's a better word. But as Rav Shmuel Eliyahu was saying the hakama at that time included included God-fearing people. Yes. Aguda Mizrahi.
So I'm not as ignorant as I thought. I don't no no. Okay. Obviously the question we took it to a completely different area which I guess Hashem wanted to because it happened.
Bedieved. Tish'ach b'av juices. Oh now you're a driver. I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try to take the no I'm actually not today either.
I'm trying to take the wheel back. Oh. I'm trying to take the wheel back now. The question obviously comes back what was you say over the summer? Huh? I missed you over the summer.
Me too. Me too. That's why we're all acting up we don't want to let you. I know I know I know.
Then the this all boils down to the shaila should we bomb an atomic im atkafa tivie. Okay, now, we all know that nissim v'nifloes took place with the attack and we don't have the keilim to, we have zero keilim to really comprehend what happened with all these attacks that we've done in Iran. Anything you say does not add up. It doesn't add up.
None of it adds up. This was written before that, correct? This was written in, I'll tell you why I'm confused, I'm not sure because this, what we're learning from, is a edited version of the first version that came out, which was definitely before. I don't know, we'll have to see based on how he brings it out.
איך אנחנו מקבלים היום החלטות לפגוע במחנות הצבא של איראן, מדינה שגדולה מאיתנו עשרת מונים ומאיימת לפגוע בנו? My wife was speaking about this all the time that the first time we bombed Iran, there was this huge anacha.
Why? Because growing up here in this country, whoever grew up here, as you know I've been here from fourth grade, Iran, even saying that word, your body shook. There was a fear. You're raised with this crazy, intense, scary, vicious fear, just mentioning their name and even thinking of messing with them would cause you to. What's that? It was the big bad wolf.
So then when we took over their airspace in about 35 seconds, k'ilu mah, what is that exactly, right? And on the other hand, they are pretty powerful because after everything they went through, they're still around and they're odayin around. So it's very weird. So the shaila he has here is, okay, with that premise, so is it mutar to go and bomb Iran if you're working off nissim? Because there's no shaveh v'shaveh over here going on. I told you what happened with Nakhi, I bought a globe, did I tell it to you guys? I think it was a women's shiur.
I bought a little globe in Moldova. I couldn't find anything else to buy for my kids coming home from Ukraine, so I found a little globe. I love globes. I always loved playing with globes and mamash learning the countries and everything.
So I was showing them, and it's a little globe and it's from Moldova, so there's not even really a mention of Israel. There's a dot, an orange dot on it. Then Nakhi asked me, where's Iran? So I showed him and he saw how big Iran was and I'm like, how come I'm not freaking out from the fact that it really is like that? Because I got used to living in a state of miracles. That's it.
That's the only difference. Because when you look at it, it's lo nitpas. Lo nitpas.
מה מדריכה ההלכה את מתתיהו ובניו, ומה היא מדריכה אותנו בשאלות שהצלחה בהן מצילה חיים של אלפי רבבות מעם ישראל וחס וחלילה כישלון משולם בדם צדיקים קדושי עליון? What does the halacha say? How did it guide Matityahu and his sons in the time of the story of Chanukah and how does it guide us today with questions that if there's an hatzlacha, you're saving hundreds of thousands of lives, and if there's a kishalon, if there's a God forbid a failure, you're bringing upon Hashem yerachem, what you're bringing upon Am Yisrael.
Is it similar to what Am Yisrael were struggling with just before the Roman Churban? They were divided. Should we be fighting? Should we be accepting? Could be.
איך הורו תלמידי חכמים לתלמידיהם להצביע בעד או נגד הסכמי אוסלו? Ah, now he's asking even a better question. How could it be that there were rabbeim, talmidei chachamim, that told their students to vote for or against the Oslo Accords? Against the Oslo Accords, we could understand, our chevreh could totally understand this.
Against, but you all know how Oslo pulled through, right? How were they able to get the Oslo Accords to be voted in? Shas people switched. Hashem yerachem aleinu. It's scary, mamash scary. Shas and it's also one member of, he was the Chaver Knesset of the Avoda, this guy that a year later got caught smuggling a bunch of ecstasy pills from Amsterdam into the country.
You guys don't remember this. You weren't around. Mamash crazy. Was he a spy for Iran also? That's something else.
That's something else. They bought off. No, they bought off one guy to switch.
האם זה רק שאלה של אנשי מקצוע או גם שאלה של תלמידי חכמים? So he asks here, are these, should these questions just be posed, these questions, to the strategic minds, to the bitkhonistim what's called, you know every single person he's a bitkhonist, it's like everyone knows exactly what to do because they have this rich security, this rich history of being a top general in some area of bitkhon hamedina, or should you involved, or should a Jewish state need to incorporate the counsel of talmidei chakhamim in these matters? Now if you say yes, then you'll say, well, that they did that with Oslo and then you got the Oslo accords signed, which can make you insane.
That's what they'll say. The question we have to ask really is how do you go about asking these questions? And I'm gonna say something because you look like you're going to not just throw a chair at me after the shiur, you look like you're going to move to Florida right now or move to Beit Lechem, I don't even know which one. I was there two nights ago because I know what you're thinking and I'll say that I did, I dug deep into this right now. Rav Ovadia was fooled.
Okay? Rav Ovadia zecher tzaddik livracha, holichu oto sholal. holichu oto sholal. Tzaddikim aren't supposed to be fooled. Take that up with him, I'm not that, I can't go into that right now.
Of course they're not supposed to. But he was taken, they pulled one on him that afterwards we have documentation of him saying basically avdu alai. avdu alai. Screaming, saying, had I known that it was X, Y, and Z, avdu alai.
Never. Just to put things into context. No, but you have, you will have to deal with Yossi's statement afterwards. No, I'm not dealing with it right now.
So now we're saying, we're saying let's go deep into the practical question and we're going to end with this. This is like a very, this last piece is very chazak. He's saying this about his father, מרן הרב מרדכי אליהו. You know I had, I'm telling you I'm a little bit traumatized and be'emet, I don't talk about this too much but this is something that I haven't really dealt with.
I was on stage with הרב מרדכי אליהו זצ"ל, summer Yom Yerushalayim 2005. With my guitar. 21 years ago. With your guitar, with Kipp.
Yes, I was there. I was mamash right next to הגאון הצדיק הרב מרדכי אליהו. It was Yom Yerushalayim, there was a hundred thousand people in the crowd. That year was the year of the geirush, which was about to happen.
So the whole crowd, I'm seeing a sea of orange because everyone was wearing the orange bands and you felt very much at home that year. The orange because... you were there that year? Yeah, yeah, you were here, I met you right before then. Right? And Rav Mordechai Eliyahu got up on the stage and I'll never forget this because we're freaking out, it's like oh my God, this is actually happening.
We're two months away, three months away from when it's supposed to happen. The country's on fire. Okay? The country's on fire. Fire.
And confusion and he got up on stage, he said לא יקום ולא יהיה. He said it won't be. It won't, it won't happen. And the crowd...
I'll never forget this. Wow. Sha'aga, לא יקום ולא יהיה. And that was the only way that you know I felt like I could continue playing, you know.
Because it was crazy. You know who else was up there also? The person that's trying to run again to become Prime Minister. He was right there next to him. Bibi? Huh? Yeah, right there.
Who? At the time the head of Moetzet, no he was already in, he was already coming into politics. It was, I couldn't believe this stuff. It was crazy.
הגאון הצדיק הרב מרדכי אליהו היה רגיל להזכיר את סדר הפסיקה בהלכות המלחמה.
He would always say the order of psika, how you pasken regarding hilchos milchama. Hatora mitchashevet bammumchim, it's true, the Torah takes into consideration mumchim, specialists in certain areas, אבל יש שיקולים אחרים, but they always have different agendas as well. There are different other agendas. Kach.
כך היה מביא מרן הרב אלישיב הגמרא על דוד המלך שלפני כל קרב every time before Dovid HaMelech went out to wage war hayu yoatzim b'Achitophel venimlachim basanhedrin veshoalim b'urim v'tumim. That's what the Gemara in Brachos says. There were three categories there happening, meaning that Dovid HaMelech would counsel with. The first one was Achitophel.
He's very interesting Achitophel 'cause when you learn Sefer Shmuel Bais you see he also was the yoetz of Shaul. Meaning he was a mumcha. Okay he was a mumcha. But it wasn't just that.
Then he says after you heard what they have to say venimlachim basanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was there and they had to give their guidance and counsel. And also you ask the urim v'tumim. So it's not just like strategic.
It's both with it has to be with shikulim meod ratzionalim.
אחיתופל היה היועץ והסנהדרין דנו בשאלה הלכתית הזאת ואחר כך היו שואלים באורים ותומים וגם כשלא היו אורים ותומים היו יוצאים לקרבות על פי היועצים ועל פי תלמידי החכמים. Even so now what do we do let's step back like we're steiging a sugya. Even if you want to say that what it's all Tora Tora Tora and nothing else matters.
Well Dovid even at the time of Dovid HaMelech no. You actually have to have strategic minds giving you an assessment of the situation. But the thing is is that if you want to say that you also need talmidei chachamim. Meaning you can't have one without the other.
It has to be both. Which brings us exactly to the situation that we're in today. When we go out and wage war when we do these things who's basically sitting there at around that table? Not talmidei chachamim. Only the military mumchim supposedly.
Achitophel and let's say it's called the kabinet hamitzumtzam, right, the smaller cabinet, right, v'chulu. So you may say listen there's frum yidden sitting on the kabinet hamitzumtzam. That's keilu yotzei zain the inyan of Sanhedrin. L'havdil, right? What we're trying to show here is that maybe up until now we've gotten into a lot of messes because we haven't acted like this yet.
But I think Rav Elyashiv is always pushing us to look on to a way forward. And a way forward means that we have to dream of a lechatchila. Yes a lechatchila situation is both. The whole all those shiurim of Rav Ginsburgh on Tikuna HaMedina.
We're dreaming of establishing a lechatchila situation which we can't give up on. The point of what we're trying to say today and end with this the point of what we're trying to show us today is that it's not so pashut either way. We're forced into a bedieved metzius of clearly almost total annihilation of European Jewry which at that time was what percentage of the Jewish population of the world? Does anyone know be'erech? One third. A third.
European Jewry were only one third? Wow I thought it was more. Yeah I would think it was like 70%. I thought it was more also okay whatever it was a substantial amount, right? So we're coming and we're saying listen if we don't get our acts together somehow it'll be the end of the story. Anyone that can't hear that wants the truth to live a life of somchin al hanes.
If you can't hear that then you really just saying okay so everything's we have to just live like a nes all the time. That doesn't that's not our shittah either. But proclaiming a state could also be looked at as if you're just building on a miracle as well. Right also the keilu like we saw.
Who are you fighting against? Who's against who in the time of Ben Gurion? So all these shailos are good to ask you have to ask these questions and realize a metzius po the reality we're in is very morkav but it doesn't exempt us from trying to create a situation of Achitophel and Sanhedrin and of course the urim v'tumim. That is what we need to go for and that is B'ezras Hashem what we will be going for because there is no other way. Nothing else it won't work any other way. That's for sure.
It won't work any other way. There's a lot more to learn chevre a lot more to learn. I give us a brocha to learn for many more years this and all the things pertaining to where we're at right now in life and B'ezras Hashem. be'ezras Hashem we should continue to witness nissim veniflaos without relying on them.
Amen. And Pesach wants to say something. Yeah, on a practical level, just taking what we've been working on these last number of weeks and talking about how it's not going to come from the top down. Bottom up.
Bottom up. B'emess. And so, and so what I've really been asking myself is what's the way forward with it from that place that starts with each one of us? And what's really been, I've been hearing it very clearly is everybody's saying Avinu Shebashamayim, Avinu Shebashamayim, but how much can we really call out Avinu Shebashamayim if we don't also have אחינו כל בית ישראל? That, as a father, what's more important? That I have a great relationship with my own kids? That's wonderful. But does it really, does it bother me when I see my own kids don't get along? Isn't that what's really, that's what's more important to me is that my own kids should get along.
I can only take from that that Hakadosh Baruch Hu, I believe that Hakadosh Baruch Hu, more important than Avinu Shebashamayim, that Hakadosh Baruch Hu wants to hear more אחינו כל בית ישראל. And that is something that I believe can only happen from the bottom up. That if we're walking away from these last few weeks of learning, that it starts with each one of us to see it from that place, to create that as the frame. That regardless, just of being free of all the cheshbonos of why is he doing that and all the sevaras that we have about everybody else's, just אחינו כל בית ישראל.
That's the only thing. And maybe that's ignorance, I don't know, but at the very least that it creates some sense of achdus and what's best for us? What does the Ribbono Shel Olam really want for us? That we should all be getting along. So maybe we should say Avinu Sheba'aretz instead of Avinu Shebashamayim. Wow.
That's what I'm getting from what you're saying. Zimmer. Or to say Avinu Shebashamayim U'Sheba'aretz. As long as God is residing only bashamayim, I could afford to not get along with each other.
That brings up a beautiful thing I heard, to end with, the famous thing at the end of Masechet Sotah talks about how the end of days, this is going to happen, this is going to happen, and we read it like על מי לנו להשען על אבינו שבשמים. And I heard an explanation that that's actually one of the things that at the end of the days people, "Oh, it's all up to God in heaven." Not as if it's a good thing, it's one of the negative things. Oh, all we're doing is relying on God and not actually doing it ourselves. Chazak chazak chazak.