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A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.
Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the crazy hockey dads podcast episode number 22.
Scott:22. Double Double deuce.
Jamie:Dobbs hockey number, actually.
Scott:Has he has he kept the same hockey number all these years?
Jamie:For a while now. Yeah. Auto 20 '2. He's got, like, a
Scott:different number every year.
Jamie:Is that right?
Scott:I think so.
Jamie:So what's he gonna be this year?
Scott:14. Which he was not last year? No. No. Alright.
Scott:I see. Went he went from '97. Right. Then he went to '26 because apparently he lost a bet. Right.
Scott:I thought it was gonna be because I was 13, so I thought like my secret dad hope was that he just doubled my hockey number, but apparently I was wrong. Wob, wob. So, and then he went to, then after 26, then he was 87 last year. And now he's 14, naturally.
Jamie:You want to hear story? You mentioned 87.
Scott:Yeah. So
Jamie:so Dominic is gonna be a last year might, so like eight, right? Okay. And we're at the avalanche and they're like, put down, you make the team, they're like, Oh, go ahead and write down three numbers that you want. Your first choice, second choice, and third choice. Yeah.
Jamie:Right? Okay. We're standing 99,
Scott:99.
Jamie:We're like, Nah, he knows I wouldn't let him do that, right? Yeah. So we're like, I'm like, What numbers do you want? And he's like, I want 87. And I look at him and I go.
Jamie:Atomic, you hate Sidney Crosby goes. He goes, No, dad, I want 87. Like, you sure? He's like, 87. I'm like, Okay, 87.
Jamie:So I'm like, 87. Like, what else you want? Grosby, dude. He loves him now, but it's time we use a mic. Right.
Jamie:So he's like, so I'm like, Okay, or that 87. And then he's like, he's like, I'm like, I'm like, me the number. He's 65. I'm like, what are we like an offensive guard in football? Like, okay, 65.
Jamie:I'm like, what else? He's like, and 95. I'm like, I'm like, and I look at him, I'm like, like, lightning McQueen. Was
Scott:that what it was from?
Jamie:He says no.
Scott:Questionable. Questionable. Fair.
Jamie:Okay. So I was like dumbfounded at the numbers. Like, I wanted that kid by. Why you just take like 12? Because you're in
Scott:2012, like this
Jamie:is not difficult, right? Just So take he's like, No, no, no. 876595. Okay, fine. So, and I was questioning because he's like, I hate Sidney Crosby.
Jamie:I'm like, You do? He's like, hate him. I'm like, Okay. So 87. I'm like, all right.
Jamie:Okay. Different, but all right. So then like we find out his numbers months later when the jerseys are like gonna be made.
Scott:What do you get?
Jamie:He 87, Scott. He has an when I say a meltdown, meltdown. Like, I mean, like, tantrum crying, like, I hate Sidney Crosby. And I'm like, dude, I said that to you when you when we were doing it. You're like, no, you didn't.
Jamie:I hate Sidney Crosby. I'm like, You just cannot, like, reason with somebody like that.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:You can't argue with
Scott:Crazy.
Jamie:Right, right.
Scott:Like, you
Jamie:can't argue with, like, the furniture, you know, like, you know, so like so so I'm like, so I had to call. Yeah, I'll let you be like, Yeah. I'm like, Listen, I appreciate that you gave him his first choice. Can you give him like something else? She's like, Well, 65 is taken.
Jamie:I'm like, Well, that's not a bad thing. So, I'm like, I'm like, what's this other list? She's like, 95. I'm like, fine. I'm like, just go with it.
Jamie:Yeah. And he was 95 for like, I don't know, one or two years. And then the funny part about it was is then we moved organizations. He was 95 for one year. We moved organizations.
Scott:Yeah. Get a load
Jamie:of this shit. And the other organization that shall remain nameless.
Scott:Yeah. Anyway. Know
Jamie:what you're Shall remain nameless. Yeah. Because they do a lot of weird stuff. I wrote down what numbers and the coach comes back to me and he's like, yeah. So I wrote down like 95, because I'm going to be 95 again.
Jamie:Okay, fine. Lightning McQueen, here we go. Right? So I wrote down like 95 and they said, they're like, you can only pick between like one and like 35 or like 40. Do you know why?
Scott:No, I don't.
Jamie:So I don't technically know why either. My guess is, is we were first year squirts. My guess is the second year squirts were getting like 40 through 99. And they didn't want to print two runs. Just one run.
Jamie:They didn't want to do like that's I don't know that for a fact. This is the only building I've ever been in where they're like, you can only pick one through 40. Have you ever heard of that?
Scott:Oh, I guess the math works out where they have less players or, you know, the numbers.
Jamie:Maybe more cost conscious.
Scott:No, I understand that. But I'm just saying like, what happens if you like have 50 players
Jamie:age I remember my good friend who fell through the ceiling in the pro shop. Episode six, Breaking and Entering. Check it out if you haven't. Episode six, phenomenal story at the end about my buddy falling through a pro shop ceiling. He's his child.
Jamie:Yeah. He has a thing with having to have his kid. We're 43. And 43 was not available because you could only have one through 40.
Scott:To 40. That's wild, if
Jamie:that's I've never experienced that again. Have you?
Scott:No, I just No. Because what's the difference to the person printing it?
Jamie:Scott, well,
Scott:the difference They print is everything in there. They print everything in that.
Jamie:Build everything in house. Yeah. They don't go they don't use a third party. They print everything in house.
Scott:But still, I don't I I it's still
Jamie:I don't either. I'm sure it was a cost issue.
Scott:Well, they're very business minded over there.
Jamie:Yeah. That's putting it gently.
Scott:Well, you know.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Okay. So 95, then he went to 22?
Jamie:He went to 20 Because was
Scott:less than 30 or 40.
Jamie:We moved organizations and he was allowed to pick whatever number he wanted, even if it was 95.
Scott:And he stayed with twenty two.
Jamie:It was 22. Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. Okay. Where did twenty two come from?
Jamie:Cole Caulfield.
Scott:That's a great one.
Jamie:Came from Cole Caulfield. But then now Cole Caulfield, speaking of our guest that you guys are gonna hear shortly, you know, with the Ohio Blue Jackets, Cole Caulfield moved to Johnny Goudreaux's 13. So Dom hasn't stayed with twenty two that obviously Cole Caulfield is not wearing anymore. But he stayed. But that's why
Scott:he did Interesting.
Jamie:Yeah, because Dom is not a big kid, right? So he gravitates toward Cole Caulfield.
Scott:Yeah, he's an outstanding, tremendous player.
Jamie:Cole? Oh, he's phenomenal.
Scott:Yeah, totally. And you know what's so great about like Montreal also? Well, that's like They're such a
Jamie:big young hockey team right now.
Scott:I know, but the fact that St. Louis is the coach and he was an undersized player and he's got Hallfield, Suzuki's not a big person.
Jamie:No, he's not.
Scott:Then you got Lane Hudson.
Jamie:Also not a big dude. Yeah.
Scott:No. But I I mean, like, that's gotta that's be awesome for these under a size players who have, like, you know, access to one of the best undersized players probably of all time. And, like, they can just, like, lean into that and, like, learn and
Jamie:Oh, sure.
Scott:And what's crazy Phenomenal.
Jamie:What's crazy about those three guys that you mentioned, you know, Suzuki, Caulfield, and and Hudson, is that the skill level is just off the charts with those kids.
Scott:The charts. Yeah. It's crazy. No. It's it's crazy.
Jamie:Yeah. So that, So that's my story. But no, I was just saying that's my story about 22, which is the episode that we're on right now.
Scott:Well, that was a great story.
Jamie:I'm glad everybody liked it. I hope you enjoyed it.
Scott:I didn't actually, I never, not that, I don't know. That never came up in conversation between us, that's interesting. Had no idea. Yeah. Wow.
Jamie:So there you go.
Scott:Okay. Well, if you buy one through, I'm assuming it just went up to 98.
Jamie:At that building. Yeah. Correct.
Scott:Awesome. Okay. So yeah, episode 22, we are back this week with another interview, is super exciting. So we have Eric Kagnina from Athletic Performance Insight, API, and what a great interview. Just such a unique perspective, I think, on the youth hockey landscape.
Scott:Oh yeah. His company, they So in layman's terms, basically, if anyone, any team that works with them, you submit video and then they've got people on his end using his platform that he's built out to capture all different types of stats and analytics. Someone will rewatch the game and they'll like, they'll tag it is what they'll call it. And like every time there's an offsides, they'll mark offsides. Every time that there's a penalty, penalty, goal, assist, save, like all the stats, all the under the hood stuff.
Scott:They've got people that are re watching youth hockey games or up to college and whatever, high school and then they tag it and on the back end, that team gets back a game that's broken down and you can drill down on all different types of metrics. I think he gave the example of where shots are taken from. So you can drill down on the position on the ice where every shot was taken. You can see what was inside the dots, outside, wherever, blue line, you can see who's taking those shots. So if you've got someone that's like taking a lot of low percentage shots, you could easily figure that out.
Scott:And it's a great tool. Obviously there's others that are out there, but I think Eric Oh, do you hear that?
Jamie:What was it?
Scott:I just got into Oh, upstairs. Yeah.
Jamie:That's alright. I did hear it, but that's alright.
Scott:No. But Eric So, like, they're great. Customer service They is do all the things that, like, you know, some of like the big corporations like that do this do as well. And I can't recommend him enough.
Jamie:I mean, essentially coaches and organizations would use his platform to use as a teaching tool, right, for their players, like analytically and with video, correct?
Scott:Totally. Even though, and he said also, you know, I think every team might have a different use case. They don't all use the analytics in the same way. And I think an obvious example would be when I was using it for Otto's team and they
Jamie:were first year smarts. Maybe a little young, but hey, listen,
Scott:start Start them them early. I can really laugh now, the intentions and motivation were good, good hearted.
Jamie:Yes, yes.
Scott:But no, a younger age group is not gonna look at some of the same stats as an older age group would. So can be used in different ways for all different But yeah, so you get the video back and what you can do is you as a coach, you can rewatch it and if you see something that one of the players did, you can like invite them to view that particular clip and like give them a heads up and like type in some feedback directly into the play, like using their system and
Erik:share And with
Jamie:send them out to the players.
Scott:Send it out to the players. You can obviously also, you know, where you have video review sessions with the team where everyone huddles up or you know, around the TV, a projector, whatever it might be and watch video. I remember, dude, so I don't know. This probably qualifies as a little bit of a crazy hockey parent story, but I would literally go, like, in 10 you. No.
Scott:Eight u. Eight u. Jesus. Crazy.
Jamie:Was it they're mites? They're mites?
Scott:No. No. No. It was after mites. It was it was it was it was 10 u.
Scott:Okay. But they would I would bring I would literally bring my computer monitor from home, like, get, like, bigger curved one. I would travel with you
Jamie:put it up on, a screen?
Scott:No. Well, so I would, like, in between games sometimes, instead of having the kids, like, go crazy at the hotel, like, running around and being wild.
Jamie:You would to a conference room.
Scott:A 100%. And I'd have, like, my AV equipment.
Jamie:Yeah. We did that too.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:A little older than you guys, but we did it too.
Scott:Yeah. Definitely. Not till peewies. Yeah. So in any event, but so I can just get it back to Eric.
Scott:Like the bottom line is that that yeah. So like video review, you can be done from, you know, like a team perspective, an individual perspective. And it just really it you you start to look at things and the way your team performs and plays from a different, you know, a different perspective when you start seeing, like, and looking at the different analytics. Yeah. And and also it's great for goalies.
Scott:One of the the the benefits Yeah.
Jamie:Was saying that.
Scott:Yeah. For his system, like so we would also have, like, goalie cams or there were GoPros, you'd hang up behind the goals, but we would put one on each end for the duration of the whole game. And so when any part of the game was tagged, let's say it was a shot on goal or save, depending on what end of the ice you're on, you can then toggle between the center ice view, think your live bar and think your whatever center ice
Jamie:view
Scott:and then you could like switch it to see from behind the net. So if you're a goalie
Jamie:That's cool.
Scott:Then the goalies can see, you know, what what was their angle.
Jamie:What they were seeing.
Scott:Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So Yeah. Super No.
Scott:It's great. And so yeah. So he's our guest this week and yeah. And and, you know, he'll he'll
Jamie:plug in when
Scott:he talks later. But, you know, for anyone, you know, that listens to the podcast, if you're a coach, you're a team manager, you've been thinking about analytics for video review for your team for this upcoming season, please check them out. Athletic Performance Insight is where you'll find them. They'll do a game, a demo, or they'll do a demo for you. No problem.
Scott:No cost. They'll tag a game for you just so you can see what the end result is. Mention Crazy Hockey Dads and you can get a 10% discount off of your subscription if you so choose. But, yeah, definitely worth checking out
Erik:for He's like
Jamie:the Billy Bean of youth hockey.
Scott:He's like the Billy Beane of youth Moneyball. Yeah, no doubt. Crazy. Yeah. He's a
Jamie:lot of analytics. He's good.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. And so there's Eric and API talking about our partners and then Howie's Crazy
Jamie:Ten. Crazy Ten.
Scott:And then your neighbor.
Jamie:Oh, yes. Angelo Search.
Scott:Angelo Search.
Jamie:With ProStride. Yeah. Angelo's the New Jersey know we say it on every episode. New Jersey Devils head power skating coach. We are going to have him on shortly.
Jamie:I'm going to be back from vacation at the end of this week.
Scott:Gotta lock it in, dude.
Jamie:Yes, we do. You know, we maybe we'll take a break like you and I were talking about having him on the following, right? Yeah. We'll figure that out logistically, but yeah, but you know, if you call and you mention, you know, Crazy Hockey Heads podcast, you can get the discount. If you go through online, it's 10 is our discount code for Angela's power skating clinics.
Jamie:Guy's tremendous. Guys will get a lot out of it. Guy's wonderful.
Scott:You know what's so funny? When you said
Jamie:call, I
Scott:thought to myself.
Jamie:You can call him. You actually can call and Oh mention my God. Yeah. I know. It's like
Scott:Who calls anyone nowadays?
Jamie:Yeah. You know? Yeah. No. You're not wrong.
Scott:Yeah. Just send a fax.
Jamie:Meanwhile, calling
Scott:is Can't be your pigeon.
Jamie:Calling is better. It's better for socialization.
Scott:It is.
Jamie:Yes, it is. 100%. Especially for kids.
Scott:Yeah, oh Jesus, no doubt. Okay, awesome. So that was partners.
Jamie:Yep, should we update our geographic situation?
Scott:Go for it.
Jamie:So Canada is unchanged. We are just missing two territories in Canada. We have all 10 of the Canadian provinces, along with the Yukon, one of their three territories. We're missing two. So let's go Canada, get on the ball.
Jamie:We need two more to cap you guys out. I have a feeling that's coming soon. So that's Canada in the You
Erik:put it
Scott:out there.
Jamie:Right? In the Apple,
Scott:It's the secret.
Jamie:Exactly, right? And you know who knows the secret.
Scott:Only one man.
Jamie:Only one man is right.
Scott:Only one man dare give me the raspberry.
Jamie:The beard is legendary. Oh, nice baseballs referenced Very by you well done. Darn. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so that's Canada.
Jamie:The United States, we picked up Louisiana, so I have lost our bet. I said Louisiana was gonna be the last state to join. I was wrong. Yeah. So I am out and Scotts, Arkansas is still in play.
Scott:In play.
Jamie:So I have to say one thing. So our analytics give us like, how and who's listening in every state, okay?
Scott:Not who.
Jamie:Well, gives us an idea of how much each state is downloading percentage wise.
Scott:Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. But not like who the listener is.
Jamie:No, no, no, no, no, no. Where the listens are coming from. Yeah. Right? So I have to bust chops right now because Louisiana, which should be on the bottom of the list because they just started listening.
Scott:Yes.
Jamie:They have jumped North Dakota. Like, really, no, doc? Seriously? Like, you're letting Louisiana? They don't even play ice hockey down there.
Jamie:If they do, it's very minimal. You're in North Dakota. I mean, what are you doing? South Dakota is way up on our list. Listener wise, North Dakota is second from the bottom.
Jamie:So no, doc. Let's go. Okay. So that's that that's our US update. Meanwhile, New Hampshire is also down low in that list.
Jamie:I'm not sure what you're doing either. So get get with it, New Hampshire.
Scott:A lot of good hockey in New Hampshire.
Jamie:What's for saying?
Scott:When I was up there with for Otto, I was like, wow. We've got like, I mean, I'm not not all of this is in in but like Meramec and
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Dartmouth and obviously UNH. Is Dartmouth in New Hampshire, right? Or am I mistaken?
Jamie:I want us Oh, is Merrimack in Massachusetts? I think Merrimack's in Massachusetts. Google it for me. Google it.
Scott:I don't know. There's a Merrimack River that's over there for sure.
Jamie:So it's funny you say that because we play Google Google that for me, by the way. Google Merrimack. I want to say Merrimack's in mass because we played a bunch of showcases there every year because the who plays out of the Merrimack Rink? There's a Boston Ice Hockey Club. For the life of me, I'm drawing a blank.
Jamie:I see the logo.
Scott:Dartmouth is in New Hampshire.
Jamie:Right. Where's Merrimack? I want to say Merrimack's in Massachusetts.
Scott:Merrimack. It is. It's in North Andover.
Jamie:Yeah. Not bad. The Boston club, which I cannot believe I am I'm blanking on right now. The Boston club that plays out of Merrimack's ice. There's two sheets of ice.
Jamie:They plays on on the NCAA ice, and next to it is the Boston Hockey Club with the lighthouse on the logo. Help me.
Scott:What? I I was looking at the interwebs.
Jamie:What is the Boston Hockey Club, the youth hockey club that has the lighthouse?
Scott:Oh, the Middlesex Islanders.
Jamie:Thank you. The Middlesex Islanders play out of where Merrimack is.
Scott:Yeah. But that's great. So when we we had a tournament and I know we I cut off the geography update, but, yeah, the the Tewksbury, I think
Jamie:Is that another place they play?
Scott:No. I I could be butchering the name, but I was surprised when when we were playing. It's like you're going to play a tournament in Boston. It's never in Boston. It's always Yeah.
Scott:So we were basically we're playing up where I think it's like 3 Skate or something like that is the name of the rink.
Jamie:Oh, yes.
Scott:And that's like on the border of Massachusetts.
Jamie:It's like Skate 3 or something like Skate 3, right? Yeah, That's on the border
Scott:of New Hampshire. Like we went to pick up a birthday cake down the road in New Hampshire. Was like, geez, this is not exactly Boston.
Jamie:Yeah. Like Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Mass are all right there. So you go over state lines to go play in those three areas we got
Scott:there, essentially, But
Jamie:yeah, so New Hampshire, again, get your shit together. NODAC, get your shit together because there's The teams that are the the teams. The states that are above you are like Alabama. Like what?
Scott:Don't knock Alabama, man.
Jamie:No. No. I'm not. But I'm saying Alabama's listening more than north than New Hampshire and North Dakota, and that's not supposed
Erik:to be.
Scott:Listen, all in due time, good sir, but I agree. No question. I agree.
Jamie:I had to break balls. So, yeah, so we picked up Louisiana and The States, and then overseas, man, overseas is wild. We picked up Germany, picked up two regions in Germany. We picked up New Zealand. We got three regions in New Zealand, which is wild to me.
Jamie:And what was the other one, Scott? Why am I blanking?
Scott:The Czech Republic.
Jamie:And The Czech Republic, right. And we picked up two regions in The Czech Republic. It was, well, it was two in Germany, one in The Czech Republic and three in New Zealand.
Scott:And also a little bit more airy in Sweden.
Jamie:And we picked up another region of Sweden. Yes.
Scott:So I'll tell you, if you ever quit your day job, you have a future in geography teaching.
Jamie:Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Am learning a lot of geography from looking at our map. I'm sure you are too, by the way.
Scott:Listen, I would be lying if I didn't learn a little something about Latvia.
Jamie:I was just gonna say, I can now tell you exactly where Albania is on the map.
Scott:Yeah, there you go.
Jamie:I had the general area before, but I couldn't have pointed it out on a map that was blank.
Scott:Yeah, well, hey, you learn something new every day.
Jamie:Right? So that's our update for our location. Doing nicely, we really appreciate everybody that's downloading and listening. We hope you're enjoying the content. We had some cool interviews.
Jamie:You guys are really gonna like our interview with Eric that's coming up in seconds here. Yep. So thank you everybody for paying attention and downloading. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. We love to hear hockey stories or if you want us to talk about a certain topic, by all means, we're interested in hearing from you.
Scott:Yeah, 100%. So I think with that said, let's kick it over to Eric. Yeah, great interview. Hope everyone enjoys.
Jamie:Here we go.
Scott:All right. All right, everyone. Welcome to our guest, Eric Cagnina from Athletic Performance Insight. So happy to have him aboard for this episode. I got to know Eric several years ago through his current business API.
Scott:And I started working with him to tag my son's games and show, oh, you know, the eight year olds of the world, how video review works. Because it's little normal for eight year olds to have video review. But anyway, we are crazy hockey dads here. But nonetheless, it was it was so good getting to know Eric and, know, obviously has his own business and I would recommend it to anybody 100%. But it was a really great opportunity for me as a coach to learn a lot, having gone through the process of tagging games and looking at the under the hood analytics that they offer.
Scott:And it was super helpful for me. I don't know how much the kids ultimately took away from all of it, but I thought it planted a really good seed. And honestly, what went through my mind at the time was that you see all these kids are sitting from their iPads, screens, whatever, and people learn in all different ways. As crazy as it might sound to have video review for younger age groups, I and other families also thought that it would be a good way for kids to kinda see what it is we're trying to teach them. So in any event, that's how we got to know each other and glad to have him on the podcast today.
Scott:And so Eric, out in Ohio, correct? Whereabouts in Ohio? Again, I forget. Columbus. Columbus.
Jamie:Blue Jackets territory.
Scott:Absolutely. Yeah, I remember when I was out there, it was such a pleasure to meet you. I had a crazy weekend that weekend.
Erik:Yes, it was.
Scott:It was So basically, we were out there, right from the beginning, the first game of the tournament, we're out there and and I left or I packed Otto's bag and I didn't I didn't pack his repack, like his undergarments, like his jock with his cup and I was like, oh, shit. The the game was early, pro shop was closed. I decided not to climb over the roof and go into a pro shop, James.
Jamie:Episode six.
Scott:Episode six. But I ran home I ran back to the hotel. Not ran. I I drove a car way too fast.
Jamie:Oh my god. That's where you were?
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:I forgot about that.
Scott:Yeah. And then they had just gotten some rain and the roads were slick and I slid off the road and I needed to get a tow and then I get to the game and anyway, it was a whole thing. Then I finally got to meet Eric. And as soon as I walked into the game where Eric was because he was tagging or participating in another team's game, I see the coach calling, Go see your son. Go see your son.
Scott:He had hit his head really hard. So in one weekend of a hockey tournament, I needed both to make sure I had my current insurance information, vehicle insurance and I also needed to make sure I had my son's health insurance and then got delayed to go home. It was a wild weekend. But anyway, I'll stop talking and Eric, let you say a few words just kind of about your journey and like how you even got into the game of hockey, your kids, how that went, and then ultimately your business.
Erik:Yeah. Well, thanks a lot for having me on, guys. I really appreciate it. So I grew up playing. I was born in Buffalo.
Erik:We moved to Cleveland, know, third grade, I think I was. So I played through my youth. We lived outside of Downtown Cleveland at the time. I ended up going to a high school that did not have hockey, so that is where my career ended was at the Pee Wee level. Put it on hold for a long time and then, you know, as my younger son got into sports, hockey was always my first love and we got him out skating and he seemed like a natural and we just kind of took it from there.
Erik:So he played his kind of the typical house mites and then moved on. Played your AA travel. There is a story to how he ended up in AAA for the next two years. Back to AA two years off where he played basketball in middle school And then made it into high school and, you know, his his team his school had a hockey team. It's kinda like hockey.
Erik:Bunch of guys on skates. The the quality of play was a little off Yeah. At you know, but so they were extremely happy to have him. He got to walk into a situation where he was kind of, you know, right away in a leadership role kind of. For a lot of, not a lot of victories in those four years, but you know, a lot of good times, a lot of good friends and all that.
Erik:And then he hung them up after that. So that's like the very quick story behind my son, AJ.
Scott:That's awesome. And
Jamie:how did you, and now tell everybody a little bit about what you do now.
Erik:Yeah, so during that, so the lasso, as I mentioned, he played two years of AAA, then moved back and played a year of AA. So the last year of AAA and that last year of AA that he played, myself and some other parents decided, hey, we are going to take stats for the team and get some video and like that. So I am kind of like an analytics guy. You know, it is something I enjoy. So we went kinda deep.
Erik:Scott, hopefully you can appreciate. Way deeper than we probably should have. You know, so we were tracking a lot of different stuff, and we would get back, you know, after a weekend tournament or something, and I would be plugging numbers into spreadsheets and dragging dots around making shot charts and stuff. After the second year, I am like, oh my God, this is taking way too much time. There has got to be something out there that kind of does what I want to do and you know, is a reasonable price for, like, a travel team and all that.
Erik:And the more I looked, I just I couldn't couldn't find anything that did everything that I wanted it to do or thought it should do. So kind of like one of those moments where you are like, okay, there seems to be like, I cannot find anything. You know, other people I talk to say, yeah, that would be great. So you kind of, you know, pick a spot to take a stab in life sometimes, and that was mine. So, and it kind of worked out where when he stopped playing hockey all of a sudden and I was not traveling with him everywhere and that gave me time to kind of dive in, start the business, and it gave me an excuse to hang around rinks when I don't actually have a kid playing too.
Erik:So that's probably the truth too. So I took the idea. So the idea was instead of having clipboards and tracking a lot of stuff by hand, if you could do it digitally, that increases the efficiency, it increases Eric,
Scott:sorry to interrupt you. But about how long ago was this when you first started this?
Erik:So this would have been nine years ago now.
Jamie:Nine
Erik:years Like really the, you know, the first investigation of, you know, can I take this kind of very manual process and move it to something that's more of a digital platform?
Jamie:And automate it somehow. Right.
Erik:Right. Exactly.
Scott:Awesome.
Erik:So met with, you know, a couple different program, local programming firms, had a beta version built that, you know, the version that you are used to, Scott, it probably had half of that functionality. Wow. So we, but it was really just designed to, hey, you know, let me show it to some people. Let me see, you know, what they think, get some feedback. And the good news was the feedback was good enough where I'm like, this seems like a good idea.
Erik:It seems like there's a market for this. The bad news was I had absolutely no confidence that it was either stable enough to roll out broadly or scalable enough to roll out broadly. So I went back, took like kind of that beta version I had, interviewed some kind of, you know, bigger programming shops around here and had it entirely rebuilt over that summer to something that is now, you know, the current version that you are seeing with the additions that we make, you know, typically every summer where we add some new features and stuff like that.
Jamie:You're constantly updating it?
Erik:Yeah. We, you know, I get very nervous about doing anything too, you know, too big during the season because, you know, as much testing as you can try to do, there's still sometimes bugs that can slip through. So when you have something that seems to be functioning well, you don't wanna go Yeah. Too far out.
Jamie:Right.
Erik:So usually what we'll do is, you know, decide the big changes, the big improvements that we'll make over the summer, try to give ourselves plenty of time to test them. Once we have confidence, we still have some time to push the new app versions out, get the website updated to the production version and not be too nervous that all of a sudden things are going to go haywire on you.
Scott:So when you first dove into this, I think part of what we want to touch on is just kind of like as a parent, kind of like the roller coaster that may or may not have been, but it sounds like there was one to an extent. But like, were you there as like, I don't know, a crazy hockey dad being like, I need to get more information to make my kid a better player? Like kind of like what was the spirit in which this kind of really came about? And then also, had mentioned the AA and the tier one, tier two thing. If you could address that also separately, that journey and maybe the whys behind some of it and the things that went well and didn't.
Erik:Sure. So I will start with kind of the data side of things. And yeah, it was kind of a combination. Myself and a couple other parents, particularly that first year, were all kind of thinking the same thing, you know, talking, saying, Hey, it would be great if we had more information for the coaches to, you know, to use to make decisions, plan practices, stuff like that. So it was kind of like one of those things where a couple people were thinking the same thing at the same time and it just made it real easy to kind of dive into it.
Erik:The coaching staff was supportive. We didn't really have anything that they were using at the time. So you know, to add a little bit of data of analysis to kind of what they are seeing with their eyes, you know, seemed to be great. I think it worked out well at the time. Then we just kind of took that, and even though it was a different organization the next year, I kind of had that process in place.
Erik:So it was really just kind of taking it one step further because I was able to show, you know, the new organization, the new team, hey, this is what we did last year. Would this be of interest to you? Again, were all on board. It was something, nothing close to what they were getting at the time. To be able, you know, back then to even just see, you know, what are your centers, you know, face off percentages, you know, what do shots look like?
Erik:Is there a player that, you know, has taken 80% of his shots from outside the dots, you know, and stuff like that that, you you are not going to have unless you have someone kind of tracking that information. So, you know, so it seemed to, you know, to be well received and to hopefully, you know, add some value to both teams in terms of player feedback, practice planning, stuff like that.
Scott:And the age group, I am sorry, but the age group at that time, you were looking, how old were the kids that this was kind of like being developed?
Erik:Yeah, so it would have been Pee wee years. Yeah, Pee wee, so Pee wee minor, Pee wee major. Two Got years.
Jamie:I'm just curious, So you guys essentially tag, you tag, you clip, you know, little, you tag and make little clips for the coaches, then bring to a kid and say, hey, listen, this was good, this was bad. I mean, tell everybody exactly how coaches would utilize what you guys do.
Erik:Yeah. So that early version, when we were doing it by hand, we really couldn't. It was there wasn't any video integration necessarily. They were two separate okay. Things.
Erik:Had video. Had stats, but they weren't together. That was really the key thing that I wanted to do by digitizing the input was then being able to say, okay, with every, you know, event that we're tagging, we now have a timestamp. We have all this information that we can use to start to manipulate video and be able to filter on it and get down to, you know, in a really efficient way, hey, show me all of, you know, player, you know, player ten's, you know, shots on goal or all of the team's, you know, failed zone exits or whatever. So previously, the only way to do it was how a lot of coaches were doing it and still do it.
Erik:It is kind of scrolling through video, finding stuff. Maybe they are writing down timestamps and stuff like that. Once we had the software in place, the program in place, it became very natural to where you could you were tracking all these events. It was giving you good information, good reports, good data. But then you could also leverage that into a really efficient way to utilize the video.
Erik:That is where Scott and I went down a pretty deep hole at times, kind of diving into the different ways that you could of chop up the events and look at different ways and be able to then flag for the team or flag for players and say, Hey, you did. Here's an example of where you did a great job. You know, Hey, here's a here's something else where maybe, you know, we would have done. Do it a little bit different way next time.
Jamie:Now you have the data part and the video part together in the software that you have now kind of, you know, expanded on from where you started ten
Erik:years Exactly. They're all integrated in, know, one of the other important things that I wanted to do was have the ability to look at multiple angles too. So we have the ability then to link up to three angles So you can put, generally speaking, it's a center ice view and then two goal cams. So again, the whole idea is to try to really There you go.
Scott:I've an assortment behind me. Me too. So,
Erik:you know, though, and the whole idea, I mean, really what we're trying to do ultimately is make things more efficient, you know, and increase the efficiency of gathering the data, of reviewing the data, of using video for film, opening it up to the players to do some of their own self discovery. We are just trying to make everything more efficient. Would say one of those things also was providing then some tools for goalies. Goalies, I think, oftentimes get
Jamie:kind of
Erik:left behind a little bit when teams are planning out resources. So now we have the ability now to go in and leverage off of that data that we're collecting, that information that we have to help goalies. Goalie could come in and say, show me all of my shots and goals that I faced this last game, and then they'd be able to just very quickly click through, look at their angles, look at their recoveries, look at their depth, and do all the stuff that goalies do to try to get better. That's awesome. I
Scott:wouldn't mind just going back to AJ's journey, which you had started saying. Started at a young age, but went to the tier one, tier two kind of roller coaster perhaps. What was that like for you? What were some of the motivations or circumstances, if you're willing to talk about why you went between the two, maybe what were some of the learnings, for better or for worse.
Erik:Yeah. No, I'd love to. And it was a four year roller coaster ride. That's for sure. So he came out of MITEs and I don't know if it's exactly the same everywhere, but it scored kind of generally the first travel year, at least around here.
Erik:At the time, there were two significant travel organizations that were here in town. And he tried out for one, ended up making that team, so we made the AA team. We were very happy, very excited, and it was a fun year. I helped. I was one of the assistant coaches and a lot of fun.
Erik:So we will fast forward to tryouts, which happen, of course, right at the end of the season. Exactly the next day. Roll right in. No rest. And you know, the organization had had a turnover in terms of like the, you know, hockey operations side.
Erik:And they were clearly going to do some things differently. New coach from what he had the year before. As tryouts were going along, being a dad, I started to get this really weird feeling in my stomach. He was a good player. He was not one of the best.
Erik:He was not one of the worst. He was somewhere in the middle on the team. But you also, the next year was when were starting up AAA at least at the time around here. So the top four or five kids off his team were moving up to the AAA team. So in my mind going in, I'm thinking like this is a no brainer.
Erik:Tryouts go on and I'm getting like this worse and worse feeling. Then, you know, one of the other coaches that was kind of more on the inside is like, yeah, your bad feeling is there is a reason for it. So he was going to end up on the single A team. I felt like at the time there was this massive injustice being done. Right.
Erik:And it is easy to say like, Oh, the kid wouldn't have cared at all. I don't know about that. Like, I think he would have looked and said, what the hell are, you know, those four kids doing on this team instead of me? Right. You know?
Erik:And all the the kids that were coming back from the year before and all that. So even though he was young, I'm not you know, I don't think you can necessarily say he wouldn't have cared. He would have been happy just playing anywhere.
Scott:Eric, quick question. Just Yeah. But, like, the the bad feeling that that you had, was this how much of this was driven by, like, on ice performance versus, like, hockey politics versus
Jamie:Other hockey parents getting in your ear and that type of Yeah.
Erik:No. Entire entirely kind of politics and kind of like knowing that there was the potential that the organization So the, as I mentioned, like a new hockey director came on board that year. Kind of an older school Canadian guy who had it in his head that he was gonna try to run a Columbus travel program like one of the Canadian town programs. So in other words, kids that came up through that house organization were going to get preferential treatment. There were some things going on because we didn't come up through that organization.
Erik:It was just one of those things. Then you get the early callbacks, right? Oh, hey, no need for those four kids to come back to the next one. None of this was happening. None of it was feeling good.
Erik:So writing on the wall, we end up getting an offer for the single A team. You know, like I knew the single A coach. Great guy. Good coach. Like it would have been fine.
Erik:One thing I will note, like put this as like anecdotal evidence, 1,000,000 for the people out there. But, you know, one of the kids on that team is playing NCAA D1 hockey right now. Oh, a single A team. On that single A team, know, as a squirt major. Right.
Erik:So, you know, just goes to show. Right. Kids good, kids willing to work hard. Yep. Like nothing has been decided No.
Erik:Near
Jamie:They all develop their own path, their own time.
Erik:Exactly. You know, so I'm like, okay, well, I guess, you know, this, it is what it is. And I had another buddy whose kid was actually like in the exact same boat as us. And he's like, hey, there's a new AAA organization starting up, You know, they're doing tryouts next weekend. So I'm like, AJ, do you wanna give this a try?
Erik:And he's like, I don't know, maybe. I said, Well, you know, Josh is going. Oh, okay, I guess. So what happened to be, it was Tri State Spartans. They were basically a startup out of TPH.
Erik:You know, TPH had the southern model where they basically had, they developed a way to have teams be able to compete without density of players. You were able to grab two or three players from one city, two or three players from another city. And what they did is, you know, so anyways, he goes to tryouts. Again, like, to my eyes, he didn't stand out, but one thing I will say is, you know, the coach said before the the the tryout started, he said, you know, don't take don't take crazy shifts. Like, don't be the guy out there trying to, like, you know, skate for five minutes at a time.
Erik:So he goes out and he does exactly what he's been instructed to do.
Scott:He's coachable.
Erik:He's a nice, sick, you know, ninety minute ninety minute ninety second shift. You know, doesn't score any goals, but blocks a few shots like he's doing kind of
Jamie:Contributing. What he
Erik:And he comes out and I am like AJ, know, you could have stayed out a little bit longer. Well, there it is. Like the idiot Chad. Because, you know, he ended up making that team because he did exactly what they were asking him to do. He was a good skater and that.
Erik:Ends up making the team. And as I was going back to the model, so basically he was the only kid from Columbus. There were a few kids from Cincinnati, a few kids from Dayton, a few kids from Indianapolis, a few kids from Fort Wayne. So they would set up and they had the whole range of age groups. They would have weekday practices in those different cities.
Erik:So we were driving an hour and a half one way to get to Dayton twice a week for practice. Then on the weekends when we did not have games or tournaments, they would do what they call like high performance weekends. So all the kids would come meet in one of those cities and they do two or three practices over the weekend. So it was a grind. It was a grind for everyone.
Scott:And Josh didn't make the team?
Erik:Josh did not make
Scott:the Oh, man.
Erik:Yeah. So, which AJ was not too happy about. And, you know, that very first, like, high performance weekend when everyone's coming in, he comes off the ice falling. First time, and I'm like, Bud, what's up? And he's, you know, he's like, I don't wanna do this.
Erik:I don't know anyone, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, we just paid a lot of money.
Jamie:You need And to take a lot of
Scott:as all this was kind of like unfolding, you kind of like realize like the dust is settling and you know what you've gotten yourself into maybe more or less. Like, at this point, did you have how did you feel being AAA versus single A? Like, at this point, like, are you, like, glad that you're on, like, the higher level team? Like, how did that kind of, like, wash out?
Erik:Yeah, I mean, I was excited. I think once he got settled in, got to know some kids, and there were some characters on that team. There were four or five kids that were pieces of work. So it was a fun team from a player perspective to be on, you know, I think. So once he got his his comfort zone, he was he was okay.
Erik:But, you know, I will say he never got totally comfortable with being gone all the time, you know, like every weekend and missing, you know, birthday party and the stuff like that. You know, so that was always kind of hanging over the situation a little bit. So that season started out fine. Again, like kind of the same situation, not not the best player, not the worst player, doing his thing. A couple months into the season, breaks his wrist.
Erik:Oh. Got hit from behind into the boards. Was just one of those weird things. I will say, as I have told you, Scott, this coach, he was hard on the kids. Most of the dads were it was like a comedy show for us.
Erik:We would show up these high performance weekends and we would all be lounging up in the seats and watching these practices where he is just going to town on some of these little kids. Moms did not like that very much. Dads, you know, and there were a few dads, but most of us were just like, hey, you know, we all went through it, whatever. But one of the, you know, opening parents weekend, he said, I forget exactly how he phrased it, something to the effect of, you know, your players will be expected to play through adversity or something like that. In other words, if your kid's rolling around on the ice because, like, you know, he tripped and bumped his hand or something, there's going to be problems.
Erik:So, and the kids like understood this very quickly with him. So there was, you know, no one, there was none of that going on. So when A. J. Went down, you know, against the boards, stayed down, he came out, kind of like, you know, talked to him.
Erik:They get back to the bench, and then I see like, hold on. That is when they had actually lifted up his jersey and his wrist was kind of in a Z. So they were like, okay. So they got him off the ice. And, you know, the hard part about that with just the nature of the team and the organization that we were playing on was normally, like, I would have been like, hey, this is, you know, stuff happens, whatever, but you're part of this team.
Erik:You're gonna stay involved with the team. But the fact that like everything was so far away, know, made it really difficult to justify, you know, dragging someone that age.
Jamie:Who can't even play and can't practice.
Erik:Right, exactly. So he was kind of like somewhat removed from the team for, you know, the better part of six weeks. And that was the first time in retrospect when I realized that I can be an idiot, how big of an idiot I can be actually. Because, you know, the best player on that team had actually broken his wrist earlier in the year. And I guess the way it goes is they put you in a big cast, And then after a few weeks, they can put you in a short cast and they can actually like make the short cast.
Erik:So if it's into a hockey glove and, hey, you can play hockey.
Jamie:I have heard that. So it is true. Okay. Yes.
Erik:So, know, Will was playing with a broken wrist in a short cast. So we go in, we get the diagnosis and I'm like, so is it true doc that, you know, he can do this? And my wife looks at me and she's
Jamie:like, yeah,
Erik:he's 11. What the hell are you talking about?
Jamie:Said the same thing, Aaron. I would have the same thing.
Erik:Why are you trying to have our kid go play hockey with a broken wrist?
Jamie:All of us would have done the same thing, by the way.
Erik:I'm like, well, I'm not a doctor. They say it's okay. I don't know.
Jamie:They're signing off on it. I'm good with it. Yeah. He's good with it.
Erik:You know, cooler heads prevail. We're like, I'm like, you're right. So there was that extended period of time when he was kind of away from the team. I was very curious to see once he came back, know, was he gonna just jump right back in or not? And it never looked like he missed a beat.
Erik:Any hesitation So or that was good. So season ends. And like I said, you know, there were some wonderful parts to the team, but there was also that hesitation that, he felt like he was just missing an awful lot at home. So we talked and I said, you know, it was kind of a weird season. You got hurt.
Erik:You came back. You were playing really well by the end of the year. You know, why don't you give it one more year and see what happens? So he agreed, came back, made the team again. And that was a really good year.
Erik:We added a few other kids, ended up, I don't know, thirtieth in the country or something like that. It was a decent team. Good team. But he was just burned by that point. So, you know, we agreed that he was gonna come back home, play, you know, step down, play AA.
Erik:And the hard part was, so obviously, you know, AAA jackets are a big organization. One of the unfortunate things was there were three, three or four coaches in the organization that had 2,004 birth year kids that was AJ. So and they had, you know, some some really tight bonds and stuff. So it was a really hard team to break into. So, you know, I'll always wonder if he would have gotten that shot to play locally.
Erik:You know, could things have turned out a little bit different? Would it have been, like, more manageable where, you know, it didn't feel like such a grind to him? But we will never know. He played on that AA team, and at the same time, he just felt like he was missing out an awful lot. What was awesome for him was one of his best friends' dads coached the local travel basketball team.
Erik:So he was able to practice with them, playing some games here and there when they were missing some people. So he was kind of getting at least a little bit of that camaraderie over time. With that, he felt like he was missing out on before just being exclusively hockey. But when that second AA season ended, you know, he was done. I was done because I could tell he was kind of mentally checking out.
Erik:Can remember the first tournament weekend that I had not gone to since he had been playing travel. But it was just, you know, it was just to that point.
Scott:So what was that like as far as like for you as a parent and like, you know, I've, you know, this passage Jamie did it last year, I did it this year going from tier one down to tier two. At first, that there's We put so much time, effort, energy, right? Then you a lack of Maybe it's exactly what I'm trying to say or maybe there's a different way of saying it, but you're just not seeing the results that you as a parent were expecting that all this time, effort, energy were going to yield and then you're faced with like, okay, well how am I going to approach this? How am I going to deal with this? And then there's this emotional, for me it's been like, you know, he had a spot on the on this team he was on last year, which is a tier one team.
Scott:But, like, similarly, this commute was too much for us as a family and and it it it the it it wasn't the right fit. You know, the coaching played a role in him not wanting to go back there. And so I think from your perspective, like how did you, I don't know if cope is the right word, but like kind of like what did you go through internally kind of like accepting, okay, we're going from tier one to tier two, from tier two up to tier one and then back down to not playing like, what was that like for you?
Jamie:The roller coaster.
Erik:Yeah, it's, you know, on one hand, like you know, I'm a super competitive person and it's hard for me to like wrap my head around that. Anyone would not want to push for, hey, this is the best team I can make, you know, but the fact is he is wired entirely differently than I am. And that, you know, as time has gone on, that has become more and more clear. So, you know, kind of understanding that, that, hey, you know, how I think about things, you know, is definitely not how he thinks about things. In terms of the level, you know, it was I wish he would have kept playing, you know, AAA for one form or another.
Erik:I, you know, the travel wasn't easy, but I was, you know, I was fine. I was happy. But I was the only one. What was fun about going to that, that AA team was, though, you know, one of his AAA teammates was also going and playing on that same team with him. And it was actually like geared up to be a really, really good team.
Erik:I think I mentioned to you, Scott, I feel like this is one of the all time underachieving teams because you had, you know, up and down that team were kids that either had played AAA before that team or after that team. Several kids are playing That kid that I mentioned that played, you know, is playing NCAA D1 now was on that team. There's a kid playing NCAA D3 that was on that team. Several kids that are still playing juniors were on that team. Right.
Erik:It was a, you know, for a double A team, it was a stacked team that just never seemed to like click. Interesting. Know, so going in, we were really excited because we're thinking, hey, we could be like one of the better double A teams in the country. And you know, ending the season ranked one hundred and tenth or whatever we were. It clearly didn't work out like that.
Erik:So that was a little bit disappointing in that you just saw the potential to, hey, whatever it is, it could be a really fun, team. Watch these kids all get a lot better together. And it just didn't end up like that. Beginning much more exciting than as the season went on, it kind of faded a little bit.
Scott:Interesting. So from your perspective, it was hard for me, as I just mentioned, to go from that tier one to tier two. But now that I've accepted it, it's happening, I am excited for the benefits that Otto, I think, will have just in terms of overall confidence, probably playing time, especially on special teams, they'll probably get more of, etcetera, etcetera. Do you, like for other parents that are listening that might be struggling with, do I keep my kid at tier one or do I go to tier two? From your experience personally and from those that were around you, you think it's just all mental FOMO, fear of missing out and that people just don't see the potential benefits?
Scott:Do you think maybe parents keep their kids at tier one too long for the wrong reasons?
Erik:Think that can definitely be the case. Know, each kid is different. I would say as they get a little older and I do know what the, you know, where the break point is or where the switchover is, but obviously, and I have heard you guys talk about this on a few other episodes that, you know, the kid has to drive it more and more. And, you know, if you've got a so then it becomes tough. Like, if you've got a kid that is, like, dying to play triple a, but he's just hanging on every year, you know, getting that kid to recognize that, hey, you put a lot of time in.
Erik:You're clearly a very good player, but now let's take the opportunity to go and be a leader on a team and get those opportunities that you were just mentioning. Get specialties time. Exactly. Like, be the guy, you know, that guy that they're all they're all looking to. Yep.
Erik:Because sometimes it's just that that little extra burst of confidence that can unleash, like, an entirely different level of player that, you know, just they start to get their confidence when they're, you know, always on kind of the the fringe. They can be an amazing player, and it is just confidence at that point. But it is tough. It is when you are in the moment, particularly when it is a kid, one of those ones that is super driven and as a parent, you want to do everything you can to support them and make them know that, Hey, I am in this with you. We are going to figure this out.
Erik:It's hard sometimes to know that, you know, taking that that supposed step back is actually the best thing in the long run. Yeah. And convincing them of it.
Scott:Yeah. So in terms of like, I want to kind of bring in API on this one. Have you seen kids from the teams that you've worked with and I don't know how long you've seen the same kid year over year, but have you seen real examples of your unbiased perspective of just being like, Oh, this kid who was a tier two player, as he's gotten older, as then makes that shift to tier one. I think we just lost James for a second. I'm sure he'll rejoin.
Scott:But just like, I guess for people that are concerned, Oh, my kid will never be able to break that tier one door down unless they do it at a young age. And once I'm there at a young age, I need to do whatever I can to stay there. Have you seen kids make that transition? And is that something that you would say is maybe more common than people think potentially?
Erik:Absolutely. I would classify myself as a regional company that is slowly growing to some national exposure, particularly in the college side. A lot of the youth in high school that I see are kind of Ohio East, the most part. I do get to see kids now over five and six year period kind of develop and take a ton of different paths and to see some of those kids that were coming in at single A and double A and moving on to triple A and then even there you get different paths where around here sometimes you will get kids that make the decision, okay, played one year of AAA. I have missed enough high school and I want to go play with my friends at my high school and then you get them to move there.
Erik:So the paths are all over the place. But what I will say is, again, going back to when AJ was coming up, I was helping coach a few different ways. The hockey IQ that you see kids have these days that's being developed and coached up is just absolutely amazing to Like you seeing 10 year olds make these very subtle soft plays working with space and stuff like that, it blows me away these days to see just how advanced the thinking is in hockey. So it's been neat to kind of be able to see that as it's evolved over what I'd say is my experiences like the last ten years or so. Yeah,
Scott:some of the things that get I think we're all guilty of scrolling through Instagram or YouTube and watching all these highlights. But when you see some of these kids at the younger ages, which I think has its own issues, obviously, it's like we live in a highlight world and people aren't seeing low lights and the comparisons and all this stuff, it's not great for younger kids, I don't think. But when you do see kids who clearly get it at a young age, you're just like, wow, where did you get that from? Because that was something not many people can do.
Erik:Yeah.
Scott:But I wanted to, on the same thread, ask about in terms of the age from which you think based on the games you've watched, your own experiences, is there like an age range where you'd say like, if anyone's going to start really taking it seriously, like this is probably the time where it's going to be, you know, the right time to do it or the better time or like, is it after puberty? Is it like, does it make sense to go too far, too deep early on from your experience? Like any thoughts on that?
Erik:Well, I mean, will definitely say for whatever it's worth, I'm a huge believer in multi sport athletes and not just being a hockey only athlete,
Scott:is, which
Erik:you know, what I see way too often.
Jamie:He's back. My bad. Beach Wi Fi. Not the best thing. Sorry about that.
Scott:So All good.
Erik:Yeah. So I think, you know, so from a a multi sport point of view, I I hesitate. Like, the first, you know, the first kind of number or age group that pops in mind when you ask that question is kind of bantam. So, I think that's a very reasonable age where if you're gonna start taking it serious, putting some extra time in, maybe making some sacrifices, to me that kind of feels like the right age. That said, God, that's still so young, you know?
Erik:And there's still so much benefit that you can get from being involved in those other sports. They don't, you you don't need, Not all of them need to be some super high level travel, but just to play the other sports. Whether it is the different muscle uses that you are getting or you know, thinking, you know, soccer, using space, right? Or the, you know, baseball, the hand eye coordination. Like, you know, you can come up with lots of great examples of think across any sport.
Erik:So, you know, while I want to say Bantam, I feel like it should still be even later than that to where, you know, kids should really be still, you know, spreading their time around into some other sports before they are really starting to do some serious sacrifice in terms of, you know, this is my sport and, you know, all of my efforts gonna go towards this right now.
Jamie:And sorry, boys, I'm coming back into this because of my WiFi issue, so I apologize. Eric, So if, I'm gonna ask, I mean, if you if you were asked this already, I apologize, and I'll move on. But I think Scott might have already asked you. If you had one thing that you could do different, and again, this may have been asked already, What would you do different with your with with your child? We I know we all have things, right?
Jamie:Because we all look back and go, oh, boy, like, you know, did I screw up here? Did I screw up there? But if you could think of one thing for our listeners, what would some advice be?
Erik:You know, it's tough. Like, it's as we you know, I mentioned a bunch of times, like, that that the travel, the, you know, the the kind of sacrifices that AAA forced us to make, did that kind of perhaps kill his love at the time a little bit? Maybe, like, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I'm not even sure if he knows the answer I to will say, you know, the opportunity to, you know, work with really, really good coaches and play against really, really good competition and, you know, practice with really, really good players made him a really, really good player.
Erik:So I feel like, you know, the level he got at. So, you know, that second year, as I was mentioning, like we were driving to Dayton, you know, an hour and a half each way. But the organization knew that, like, this could be a strain on some families. So what we managed to work out in that second year was once a week we were practicing with a local AA team instead. But at that point in time, he had gotten really good.
Erik:So while some of their parents were like, what the hell is this kid doing out here with us? From the coach's perspective, we're like, hey, we've got a kid that, you know, it's gonna push all of our players to be better and, you know, and they can look at him and say, okay, he's, you know, he's doing this, he's doing that. Like they saw all the benefits. For us, it was, you know, making things a little bit more manageable, keeping us off the road. So, you know, so I guess that's a really long winded way of saying, m not sure, like I would say, like think AAA ended up being the wrong move necessarily.
Erik:You know, maybe it was just the extra stuff, like the expectation of mine that, you know, when the team was doing the 10,000 shot challenge, I'm like, Where are you? How, you know, what are, did you get your 200 in today? Know, so I probably would have tried to just back off on that extra stuff and let him driven that himself a little bit more. And if he didn't and there was a price to pay, then he But, would pay the you know, that's, I guess, guess that's where
Jamie:I makes sense. And I have a kind of a crazy question that you probably will be able to shed some light on. So Scott and I have talked before, and we've mentioned on the podcast that I think that youth hockey is exploding here in The United States. Right? The numbers of registered are through the roof.
Jamie:Have been for the last couple of years. You can see it with all the teams popping up. Right? For whatever reason, people are playing ice hockey more than they used to in this country. Right?
Jamie:So with your business, do you see that exact same thing? I mean, am I correct about that? That youth hockey is blowing up?
Erik:Oh, I mean, there's no doubt about it. I guess I, you know, just speaking to Columbus since that's what I, you know, see and have a good sense of history on, you know, participation levels are just through the roof. I could say like, you know, it takes time. Like, obviously, in the grand scheme of things, we're not a real old NHL franchise, right?
Jamie:Yeah.
Erik:Like twenty five years, I think, this year. So it takes time to kind of like get to that almost like second generation, right? Where you have the parents that played growing up and now all of a sudden they have their kids playing and now you are finally starting to grow some real depth and generational fondness for the sport where you start to really see it take hold and numbers go up. Then all of the support facilities, the training facilities that pop up. There's a local one here that's owned by Cam Atkinson and some other people called the Battery.
Scott:Oh, Which
Jamie:is, you know, kind of
Erik:a studio rink and
Scott:Battery Academy.
Erik:And they, you know, they're churning out, you know, young kids and they're working with some former pro players all the time. And, you know, they essentially are now, you know, a good, I'd say, two thirds of each of the, you know, AAA jackets teams are coming out of that facility each year. And so, you know, again, like, know, without those numbers to kind of justify putting that facility in. So it's kind of like this nice virtuous cycle where things just start to feed on themselves and you get the, you know, the people here and the resources here to then support a hockey community that continues to like grow and get better and deeper.
Jamie:It's funny that you mentioned the battery. Did that start out as a spring team? Because like, I remember my kid got asked to play in that years ago for the battery and we never, we never wound up doing it. I was curious.
Erik:They, I mean, the facility came first, but they were kind of one in the So they had the facility and then what they would do is then set up and grab like some local kids, but also as you mentioned, do some invites to, you know, to other players that they had connections with in one way or another from around the country and, you know, and hit up, I think, you know, three or four kinda spring, summer tournaments over over time and, you know, and and kinda, I guess, get a lot of these. And they do, you know, it's not just younger kids. They have, you know, older kids playing on teams that they'll travel around to these kind of summer tournaments for as And now they're essentially, you know, kind of the, I don't know, like they'll play like the Mike AAA, if you know, if such a thing exists- Full
Jamie:ice creams.
Erik:Kind of like where, right, like, you know, the, whatever the, the youngest Penns Elite team will come into and you'll see battery playing them, not, you know, entrepreneur.
Jamie:Interesting. Nice. That's awesome.
Erik:Yeah. It's, again, it's like it's just been very interesting to see, you know, as the resources, and again, you know, there's just, you know, Scott pointed it out to me and I had seen it earlier, but this kind of news story that came up, in the past couple days about Dallas and the challenges that are going on there with ICE. I would thank God I wouldn't put Columbus anything in that type of situation, but you know, the fact is as the sport grows and the number of teams grow, you know, is really hard to get ice time to grow with it. I have seen, like I will say, there have been some periods of time when there has been some, I don't know, protectionism, so to speak, in the Columbus market. As an example, like Darryl Belfry, one of his childhood friends who lives here kind of started to develop a, you know, he came, did a few camps in the spring, and then they were doing like a developmental kind of team.
Erik:So you are thinking, alright, Darryl Belfry has come in and trying to start up like this developmental team for youth in Columbus. Like what city would not be overjoyed on that? They could not get ice out of the rinks here that were worried that it was now gonna be competition to the local established travel teams. So they ended up having to, way back when they first started, rent ice that was forty five minutes east of the city. So, you know, at a community rink that was out there.
Erik:Some of that like stuff has taken place, that Dallas story is like, man, that's over the top.
Jamie:We talked about on one of the other episodes, you know, when big, I mean, big money is coming into the youth hockey space, you know, and it's, I think it's clashing a little bit with some parents, right? Who, you know, I don't know what the word is. They're not used to it or they're not ready for it and expecting it, right? Creating some animosity, I think.
Scott:Yeah. Well, listen, I think we've had a solid convo. We're almost at an hour now. This was awesome. And Eric, thank you so much
Jamie:for bringing
Scott:your experience and your from being a parent to your current business and sharing that with the audience. I think as we continue talk about this and I would love to have you back on, I think you just have so much real insight that I was talking to James about this, right? When we started talking about having people on, it's like, you listen to a lot of other podcasts and they've got know, form NHLers or people that have kind of like big resumes, if you will. And of course their experience is amazing. But I think just hearing from just more ordinary folks, yourself, although API, puts you outside of
Jamie:the I would ordinary a
Scott:say little a little more A But it's not like I think that it's very relatable hearing it come from yourself and your experiences. I think it was just shared a ton of great insight. Super appreciate it. Hopefully we'll have you back on again another time if you'd open to it.
Erik:No, that would be great. I really appreciate it. And I'll say, like, you know, the whole premise behind API is being, you know, making that type of, you know, video analytics system that, you know, used to be available to only, you know, pro teams or college teams or something like that, you know, making it available to pretty much any team that has interest in it and thinks that they can use it as a development tool for the kids. So that is the whole idea is to bring it back to that very, you know, local amateur hockey level.
Scott:And for people listening, what is the best way for them to be in touch with you, to learn more?
Jamie:How can they find you?
Erik:Yeah, so website is just athleticperformanceinsight.com. You know, there's some information on the system on there, demo videos, stuff like that. The website has degraded slightly over time, so we're in the midst of kind of evaluating, you know, some other platforms to maybe switch back over to and spruce it up again a little bit. But information is on there. There's a contact form on there, so please just reach out.
Erik:If it is just curiosity or like Scott mentioned at the beginning, think, you know, we are happy to tag a demo game for teams to, you know, just say, hey, you know, this is what we can do. This is how other teams use it. This is the range of uses that we see. Because that is one of the things I will say is we try to think of it as a big toolbox. No two teams use it exactly the same.
Erik:You know, what one team, you know, pieces of it that one team may use may, you know, may be entirely different from how another team thinks it adds value. So, you know, we love the opportunity to talk to anyone and just learn about, you know, what you're doing and, you know, what you wish you had and see if it's something that we might be able to help you out. Awesome. Yeah.
Scott:All right. Well, listen, thank you so much again. Really appreciate your time. And then, yeah, until next time. I'm sure I'll talk to you in between now and a future episode, but it was really great having you and thanks again for everything, Eric.
Jamie:Thanks so much, Eric.
Erik:Appreciate Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Take appreciate it
Scott:easy, man. All right. All
Jamie:right, everybody. And we are back after our interview with Eric. He is a really fun guest. I wouldn't mind having him back on, Scott. Was a
Scott:Super, lot of super insightful.
Jamie:Yeah. Very. Something different that I think a lot of our listeners, you know, he just came from a different angle than from a lot of our than I think where the rest of us come from.
Scott:Yeah. You know what I thought was so interesting? What he said at some point early on in the conversation and how when AJ had stopped playing hockey and was playing basketball. Yeah. And that that's when the business kinda like when he kinda, I think, dedicated more time, effort, energy.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:And he's like, yeah. And then it was like an excuse to go to the ring. And I was like, wow, dude loves it.
Jamie:I'm telling you, man, it's addicting. I think I said that actually when he said that. It is an addicting place. Yeah. I think a lot of us feel that way.
Jamie:Yeah. And it's funny that you said, you know, that you mentioned that he set that up when he he his kids stopped playing ice hockey, probably because he had a lot more time on his hands. I mean,
Scott:you know, and and when you say that, honestly, I I after I was like re listening to something and you were talking about the car ride home. Oh, it was after during one of the Vollmer interviews. It might have been last week. I don't know. But the car ride home and we were talking about that and it only then when you said it, a light bulb went off.
Scott:And I was like, Yeah, you're right. We're not driving from the local gym, high school gym, home. You're in the car for hours.
Jamie:Long time.
Scott:That's like, that's way different.
Jamie:Long time. It's way different because there's much more time to stew, much more time to be pissed off, more time to yeah.
Scott:And the
Jamie:kid knows when you're mad, you know?
Scott:Dude, I know. They definitely do. There's no question about it. The worst.
Jamie:Yeah. Dominic has said it before. He's he's like, I know dad's mad. Nancy's like, what do mean? He's not mad.
Jamie:He's like, yeah. I know he's mad. He's not saying anything.
Scott:Yeah. Listen. I I I I'm telling you right now that if there's and it's not limited to hockey, just like being a parent and knowing when and I just had this the other day, there's life on life's terms, things are happening outside of the house and whatever, and sometimes it's hard to check some stuff at the door. And Yeah. You know, like, unfortunately, those that are closest to you sometimes can be the the recipients of, like, misdirected, you know, anger, hostility, and No question.
Scott:Not fair and not okay. No.
Jamie:Not. No. It's not okay. And Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. That is it it yeah. Listen, it happens. We're all humans. But I will say I I very much want to do a better job
Jamie:No question.
Scott:That. And then, you know, bringing hockey back into the mix is like the same thing. Like, you know, after a game, I just wanna be as Mhmm. Positive as possible. And and and I'm not saying, like, lie to him and and, like, sugarcoat it.
Scott:I just don't think he needs he he needs to get dumped on by me. And I think he's old enough now where Yeah. He knows when he doesn't play well.
Jamie:They do.
Scott:A 100% they do. And and he doesn't need hear from he doesn't need to hear from me.
Jamie:No. Already bent out of shape. They're already bent out of shape. I don't think a lot of good can come from dumping on your kid like that in the car. And I think, again, one of the reasons why we started this podcast, you know, for a little bit of a therapy session for us.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:Right, a built in therapy session for us, because we can talk and kind of get stuff off our chest, so we don't take it out on our kids. And also to maybe try to help other parents, right, that are dealing with the same stuff that we are. Because I think a lot of us in the same boat.
Scott:Yeah. You know, and and when Chris Chris was saying it also, like, was, you know, it's it's not super helpful for me just to to be doing this, you know?
Erik:Of course.
Scott:But when he was talking about with with Ryan, he had said something that from his perspective was not something that was I think you talked to him about being a little tougher going into the corners, something along those lines. And you hear him telling the story and you're like And he was saying how for him, it was like a nothing burger. Yeah. Right. Clearly it wasn't for Ryan.
Jamie:No. He got offended by it.
Scott:And so it just goes to show that even when you think you're being constructive or you're saying something that is not harmful, and I'm not saying that was like harmful in
Jamie:like,
Scott:No, no, you he took it
Jamie:in a way that his dad was attacking him, which my child does too, so I get it. And you're not trying to, you're trying to teach and help and help. And so they can learn, but your child maybe doesn't take it the way you want them to take it. Which happens to me all the time in my kid, all the time.
Scott:Yeah, what a mind fuck. Those are the two words that keep coming back to my mind.
Jamie:It's the to describe it.
Scott:Yeah, it's a mind fuck.
Erik:It is
Jamie:a mind fuck.
Scott:It's a mind fuck.
Jamie:Just because they, their brains aren't developed enough yet. Some are, but a lot of them, their brains aren't developed enough yet to realize that you're not trying to hurt them, you're trying to help them. But in doing that, they take it a certain way and it actually does wind up having a negative effect on them. The way they intended it to hit home, but it just hits home on the wrong way, unfortunately.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, hopefully, like you said, and not to beat a dead horse, like that these conversations can help not just me and you navigate things and enter into new seasons, new weekends, new teams, new families with like different perspectives. And, you know, even if it's just like one little thing that, you you or I or one of our guests might share that can help somebody. That can help.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what makes it all the worth.
Jamie:Then we're doing our job. We're doing our job to help this space.
Scott:Yep. Yep. No doubt. All right. So, yeah.
Scott:So anyway, so Eric, thanks again, buddy.
Jamie:Yes. Wonderful. It's wonderful. Thank you
Scott:for And coming definitely have you back. Yeah. So what else? So rapping.
Jamie:You want to do a hockey rant? Or do you want to tell the story? Because you have a very good story,
Scott:which you
Jamie:reminded me
Scott:Yes. In the interview with
Jamie:forgot about the story, by the way. I didn't realize it took place in Yeah.
Scott:I never want to go back to Ohio. That was one of the worst weekends I've ever had in my life.
Jamie:So tell so you told you told like a very, like, quick and dirty version of it on during the interview with Eric. But can you tell maybe a more more detailed version of it? Because I know it happened.
Scott:Why don't you tell them exactly what happened? So I'll tell you what happened. What happened was we're in the hotel and, you know, I I do a very good job of packing his bag most of the time. His hockey bag? His hockey bag.
Scott:No. No. No. Like So, like, when we, like, when we leave the house look. He's at a point now where he needs to do it.
Scott:Like, I'm not I'm not still doing it. But, like at this time last year, we were like, it was the first time we flew. Right. You know, so I was double checking because it's not like, okay, granted you're at a rink. You can buy shit that you don't have.
Scott:Right? But I was we we flew we flew out there and I was making sure that he had everything. I wasn't leaving it off the chance. So when we got to the hotel, he wanted to, I don't know, I forget honestly, I think he wanted to tape his stick and he couldn't find the wax and the scissors and so he took stuff out and then I said make sure to put everything back in. Sure enough, not everything ends up back in the bag including his jock.
Scott:Okay. So it's the first game of the tournament and we get there and I, like I said, we flew. So I didn't have a car. So I was with somebody else who was definitely kind and drove us
Jamie:a To the ring, right.
Scott:Yeah, like he was just like hop in with us for the weekend. And I was like, great. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bob.
Jamie:Hop into his rental car.
Scott:His rental car. Yeah. Yeah. And so we get was
Jamie:like an Explorer, an Expedition. If I remember correctly.
Scott:Yeah. It was a little I think it was an Expedition.
Jamie:A large Expedition. Remember correctly. I remember that. Large expedition. Yeah.
Jamie:Maybe something along those lines.
Scott:That is that is pretty
Jamie:I well done by you sent me the pictures a long time ago, and I just happened to recall what it was.
Scott:Yeah. So so now I'm hustling. I hustle back to the hotel. It's like, I don't know, fifteen minutes away.
Jamie:Trying to get his cup.
Scott:Right? This is all to get his cup.
Jamie:Right before a game starts.
Scott:So so listen. So let's just go down the obvious things. The obvious things were no one else had an extra. Right? It's like
Jamie:I wouldn't think so.
Scott:Oh, well, after that, I actually kept an extra one. Did you? In Otto's bag.
Jamie:That's funny.
Scott:And I actually lent it to someone during the season because they didn't have one.
Jamie:Hopefully they washed it before they brought it back to you.
Scott:No, they didn't, but they had like their underwear, but there was no cup in the underwear. Understand. Okay, anyway.
Jamie:Understood. I'd be like, you just keep it.
Scott:Unless they're kids. Okay. Yes, I agree. Wash your So
Jamie:It's all yours, bud. All yours.
Scott:No need to
Jamie:give it back. No need return.
Scott:Yeah. So I was like, dude so I started asking people and the pro shop's not open. It's the first game in the morning. Didn't know if
Jamie:there was a
Scott:pro shop in the rink. And, you know, it's like not everyone was at the rink. It was a little chaotic, but everyone that I asked to, that I asked, like between parents and kids in the locker room, I'm like, dude, does anyone have an extra one? Everyone's like, no. And I decided just to like, as soon as I had enough nos, I was like, I'm not taking this.
Scott:I said, Otto. And I told another parent, I said, listen, can you ask if anyone has one? I'm just going to start heading over to the hotel to grab it. So you borrowed your buddy's rental car. I said, hey, listen, I need to run back to the hotel.
Scott:Let me grab the keys. Like, yeah, no problem. So I'm hustling on the way back. Hustling. And I'm not used to driving such a large vehicle, number one.
Scott:Number two, and this will make it'll make sense when I get to the park, but it had recently rained and it hadn't rained there in a while. And I am going into an exit, which is like the turn is longer than it looks.
Jamie:The off ramp or the on ramp?
Scott:It was the I was like off ramp onto like another highway.
Jamie:And so
Scott:as I'm going into this turn, it keeps going. Like, the turn kept going and going. Yeah. Yeah. And I had too much speed, and I lost you know, the tires slipped out, and I I slid off the side of the road.
Scott:And
Jamie:And jacked up this guy's rental car.
Scott:Wow. There there was there was some issues with it. Needless to say, I needed to get a tow truck.
Jamie:Yes. I was just gonna say that.
Scott:I needed a tow truck and I never got out of the cup in time. Actually, I can't right now, I'd have to ask him. I don't even remember what happened.
Jamie:I forgot about that part. Did he ever play the game?
Scott:I I think so, but I I don't I no. You know what? For for all I don't remember.
Jamie:I'm sure the person next to
Erik:me had
Jamie:a fucking
Scott:cup and this all was for naught. Finally, when the tow truck guy comes, I'm talking to him and I'm like, Dude, where do I tow this thing? He goes, just take it to the insurance lot. That ends up being a whole fucking issue.
Jamie:Cluster fuck, yeah.
Scott:It was so far away. Then after the truck was towed, I took everything out of it, but something was left in there that was like in the visor. So I had to go back, which made us late to the next game. It like hours and hours of day. Just a
Jamie:comedy of errors?
Scott:Just like a comedy of errors. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, the tow truck. So I'm driving the tow truck to like the lot, whatever.
Scott:And the guy was
Jamie:like You're driving the You're in the tow truck.
Scott:I'm in the tow truck with the In the passenger seat. So he's driving and he's telling me, he's like, Dude, this is happening all over the place. Like people are and not that it made me feel better, but I still like I was
Jamie:Because the road was slick. Right?
Scott:Because of
Jamie:how it rained.
Scott:He's like he's like this isn't my tow truck. He's like I have a brand new tow truck that I got hit head on last night because a car lost control and plowed right into me.
Jamie:Same idea of what kind of what you did.
Scott:You did same kind of thing. Yeah. And so, look, I'm like, I'm general I'm not a reckless driver. Like, I was I going too fast? Yes.
Scott:There's no doubt about that. But it's not like I was
Jamie:I hear you.
Scott:I wasn't being like, the conditions were right for this type of thing in any Yes. Needless to say, so, okay, this finally, like, finally, like after like an Uber and hours and the tow truck and a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and oh my god, call the insurance company and you know, all these things.
Jamie:Just a nightmare.
Scott:Just a nightmare. Yeah. Finally get to like the second game of the day, which is hours later. And I'm thinking like, fuck. Okay.
Scott:And Eric was at that game. Like, I'm a new part of like this next
Jamie:Oh, he was?
Scott:He was at the game. I knew I was gonna meet him. For the first time. Were gonna meet him in person. And so I'm like, okay, I'm like, this really sucks.
Scott:I'm still kinda like, you know, adrenaline dumped and like like exhausted and Mhmm. Annoyed and Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. As soon I'm not kidding you, James.
Scott:As soon as I walk into the fucking rink, they're playing the they're playing the Blue Jackets. As soon as I fucking walk into the rink, one of the dads on the team, he goes, yo, yo. And those of you that can't see, I'm like pointing and he was like pointing across the ice. He's like, Otto, he hit his head. And I was like, oh, for fuck's sake.
Scott:Just keeps getting worse. But, like so I went over there. And so then I get over there. And so Otto is like, he's he he he his head hard. Like, I didn't see it, but, like,
Jamie:That concussion?
Scott:I I was told like, you need to like like
Jamie:To go over there and look at him.
Scott:Yeah. You need you need to like check him out. And so by the time when I got over there, he was like, he he wasn't, you know, the tears had passed and he was just kinda like sitting there with his heads in his hands. Yeah. So then the Columbus Blue Jackets, this is not a knock on them, but they had like medical staff.
Jamie:I was gonna say, like an EMT? Yeah, would think so.
Scott:No, but not like an Ohio EMT. Like they were part of like the Blue Jackets organization. Were there.
Jamie:Oh, like the club. Pretty The NHL club. Okay.
Scott:No, no, no, no. Not the NHL club, like the youth organization. So
Jamie:they had their own in house like
Scott:They had like in house medical staff.
Jamie:Okay.
Scott:And so this guy says to me, this guy is like, We want to check on your son. And at first I was like, Oh, great, doctor, whatever. I'm more than happy for you guys. But then he's like, but if we observe anything, he can't play for like the next twenty four hours. And since tomorrow is like, tomorrow is a Saturday or a Sunday, He's like, We need it in writing from a doctor that he's cleared to play and he has to wait twenty four hours.
Jamie:And you're not getting that on a weekend.
Scott:But dude, I'm also like, I just flew to fucking Ohio. I know. For a tournament. And listen, I'm not gonna put my kids safety above like the fact that I was traveling.
Jamie:Of course.
Scott:But at the same time.
Jamie:Yeah. No.
Scott:I I I I will I will I also after the game. So I refused medical attention, which was like the whole fucking stressor.
Jamie:You did?
Scott:I refused medical attention.
Jamie:You're like, no, do not look at my kid.
Scott:I like, don't you go near my kid? And there the guy was kind of looking at me cross eyed.
Jamie:He's like, are you fucking serious?
Scott:Yeah. And I'm like, listen, I'm not this. I think I said something literally like this. I said, I'm not a crazy hockey parent, but
Jamie:Yeah. I'm not a crazy hockey parent. However Don't
Scott:go near my fucking son. You doctor, you.
Jamie:So then
Scott:this is what happened after that.
Jamie:Oh my goodness, there's more?
Scott:Yeah, there's more.
Jamie:Oh my God.
Scott:Had there been no medical person or whatever approaching me, would have like Look, there's coaches on the bench. There's people that have some level of concussion protocol knowledge, myself included having been a coach.
Jamie:Been a coach, yes.
Scott:So I'm not ignorant to the matter, but I'm not a doctor either. So in any event, said, there's no telltale signs of a concussion. Yes. Did his head hurt? Did he have a headache?
Scott:Yes, he just smacked his head on the ice. That's like par for the course. But there was like no nausea, no dizziness, vision, like no sensitivity to light, like things of this nature.
Jamie:No vomiting, no any of that stuff.
Scott:Yeah. Correct.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:And so I said, listen, Otto. Not to be gross, You but don't have to play. You Right. You like, just you can sit the rest of the game on the bench. If you feel like you wanna like, if you're feeling well enough and you wanna go like get on the ice and skate and see how you feel, like, you know, go for it.
Scott:You know, but, like, I'm, you know, I'm not you don't have to play, you know? And, like, listen, I don't wanna I don't wanna give the wrong impression. If I actually thought there was something wrong with him
Jamie:Yeah. You would have obviously
Scott:I I would have I would have yanked him. Yeah. But, like, having spoken to multiple coaches, like on the bench, myself having looked at him, it's like the kids fall and hit their head on the ice. You know, this happened to you know, again, I would never recommend anyone to throw caution to the wind, but like out of an there was plenty of conversations where I was like, listen, I'm sure he's fine. Okay.
Scott:But later that night, I'm like ravaged with like guilt that like I didn't have a and then I'm like
Jamie:God, I suck as a parent.
Scott:And then I was like, well, no. And then I was like, oh my God, what the fuck? I'm like, goddamn this, like, medical professional for coming to, like, approach me.
Jamie:Yeah. Seriously, why did you have to come over to me in the first place?
Scott:I know. If you just had left me alone, I'm losing time. Yeah. Seriously, you just weren't
Jamie:in the building or have lunch or something like that.
Scott:Dude. So so I I again, I don't have a car, but now I'm like, I I have to take this kid to fucking urgent care.
Jamie:And neither did your neither did your buddy, apparently.
Scott:No. He got a replacement. No. No. No.
Scott:No. He got a replacement. No. He he got a replacement after he took an Uber to the airport.
Jamie:After you tote after you totaled his car.
Scott:Take it totaled.
Jamie:You know what I mean. I don't mean totaled.
Scott:Yeah. In any event, he got a replacement with but then I'm like, I gotta take this kid to fucking urgent care to make sure that there's no nothing wrong because, like, I had a
Jamie:And you're still in Ohio. Right?
Scott:Yeah. This is in Ohio. This was, like, in the evening. So I'm now renting renting. I'm calling an Uber.
Scott:We Uber over to, like, the closest thing. Like, we're fucking starving. We didn't have a ride anywhere. Like You
Erik:didn't have
Jamie:anybody to borrow his new rental car?
Scott:No, I would have, but he wasn't there.
Jamie:He was too busy going to the airport to pick up his second rental car.
Scott:Oh my God, I love it. In any event, They when did he go to urgent said he was fine. She didn't say there was no reason to be concerned. Like, Listen,
Jamie:made you feel better that you got some value. Listen,
Scott:I don't want to take head injuries lightly, but I didn't You have an eye. Yes.
Jamie:We all know. All know
Scott:how to talk. Bottom line was this. I am not someone that was going make my kid do something that's unsafe. If this person had not been a doctor and done his job, which was to come and check-in on anyone who has gone off the ice injured because Otto stopped the play and then they helped him off the ice, which we see all the time. If this guy hadn't come up to me, I I you know, based on his behavior, like after the game, ultimately, he was running around in the hallways with his friends.
Scott:You know, he's playing like whatever. Like, he was okay. And if that guy never came up to me, I would have never taken him to the urgent care. And he ended up being fine. But it was just such a mind fuck and guilt and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Scott:And so in any event, that was And then we're leaving. The one good thing that happened and I've been talking way too long, I think, about the story. But the one thing that I did that was good was the night before we had to leave, there was weather. The weather was bad. It was like the forecast was bad.
Scott:So I immediately put my name on the standby list for the earlier flight.
Jamie:Okay.
Scott:So we ended up getting on the last two seats on the flight before us.
Jamie:Oh my god. Deal flight canceled.
Scott:Us, like we're there. We're at the airport for a long time.
Jamie:Oh, that's a nightmare.
Scott:So that worked out. In any event, yeah, you know, we should talk about that on like another episode. Just talk about like injury experiences. Mean, Eric touched upon it with this kid, but a little different with like the head injuries and, you know, it's nothing that should ever be taken lightly. I think that there's there is an element of common sense and not I don't know what the right word is or the right expression, but like What is it?
Scott:Like when you're overly concerned, you're overly scared, There's you're overly an expression that's not coming to my mind, but I think that judgment calls are going to be made all the time when it But
Jamie:since comes to you know your kid you know your kid better than anybody else.
Scott:Yeah. And yeah. But like, you know, it's don't know. For me, it was it was a it was a real
Jamie:I remember you telling that
Scott:stuff. Was it wasn't pleasant. It wasn't pleasant on so many levels. And Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah.
Scott:Not a great trip for this guy here. But I did meet Eric. That was nice.
Jamie:Yeah. Well, that's cool. Now let me ask you a question. Did your insurance rates go up when you got home? No.
Jamie:No?
Scott:Nope. I had a I was like, I think they got a bill for, like, a $125 or something.
Jamie:Okay. So that that I figured maybe the hockey monster got you in another way other than, like, gear and skating and
Scott:teams and Listen. Could've been way worse.
Jamie:Didn't get you in another
Scott:It could've been way it could've been way worse.
Jamie:Yes. Hockey Mustard got you as far as like tow truck bills and that type of stuff. No?
Scott:It was like $125.
Jamie:Oh, that's it?
Scott:I think. No, no, no. I had to pay when I got to the insurance lot some amount of money, I think.
Jamie:Yeah, I would think so.
Scott:Yeah. I don't remember how much it was, but it wasn't anything that was, like, made me vomit in my mouth.
Jamie:So not terrible hockey monster.
Scott:No. Alright. Listen. No.
Jamie:Not the worst. The hockey monster always gets you, but that that doesn't sound too terrible.
Scott:You know,
Jamie:it's definitely gonna
Scott:be Good
Jamie:story, man. I like it. I'm glad that that came to light during our conversation with Eric because I forgot about that story until you said that.
Scott:Yeah. So moral of the story is even if you have to go back to the hotel, it's better to be
Jamie:Don't rush. It's better to be late.
Scott:Yeah. Better be late and then the vehicle that still drives.
Jamie:Yes. That's still drivable. Well said. I love it. Well, well said.
Jamie:All right, buddy. Good stuff. I like it.
Scott:All right.
Jamie:Are we missing anything? Talked about our partners. I think we're good. This probably is our longest episode. Yeah.
Jamie:So we appreciate everybody that has stayed with us up to this point. We love you all. Thank you so much for subscribing, for supporting, for downloading. Thank you so much. It really means a lot to both of us.
Scott:Yep. Yep. Thank you all. Please, we wanna hear from more of you. One last thing, just to call out, write in, we had Bill from Mass write in.
Scott:We actually have we I didn't get a chance to read it, but it it came in earlier today. We got a someone else wrote in. So maybe we'll read it next week.
Jamie:Sounds good.
Scott:And Howie's Hockey, Crazy 10, Pro Stride Elite Yep. CHD 10. Dimension, crazy hockey dads with API and Eric, 10% off subscription. And
Jamie:Sounds good.
Scott:Next episode, bro.
Jamie:Until next episode. Don't let the hockey monster get you.
Scott:No. No hockey monsters.
Jamie:See you. Chomp. Later.