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Episode 540: In this episode, we dive into a lively discussion about the complexities of leadership, grief, and forgiveness as we explore 2 Samuel chapter 19. These verses highlight the biblical narrative of King David's return to Jerusalem after the tumultuous events surrounding his son Absalom's rebellion. Joab, David's commander, confronts the king about his excessive mourning for Absalom, emphasizing the sacrifices made by David's loyal troops. Joab's challenge prompts a reflection on David's leadership and emotional turmoil, as he grapples with the loss of his son while also recognizing the loyalty of his men.
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You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible Guys. Are we are here in the studio? We decided to do one more Yes, well, you know, we decided to take us all the way to Friday. Finish it. It'd be finish it, flappish them there anyway. That's I always say that to my family. Sorry, that is a movie quote from a very obscure Disney movie. Do you ever see The Great Mouse Detective? I don't think so. Yeah, it's it's it's not a popular one, but it is tremendous. I only watch the popular Disney movie. No, let me tell you something. It's it's so overrated. It's not even funny. The Great Mouse Detective is a phenomenal Disney movie. Okay, anyway it anyway, We're gonna go ahead and start with a segment that Desiree has chosen, and she chose it I think because it's fright. Well, this is so incredibly important because it's everybody's favorite. Right. Yeah, we gave you. We gave you a break last week, Chris. We did we did back. So what made Chris mad this week? Well, I had it in the wings, Jeff. I really it happened. Really, it happened Wednesday. So you had a thing that you were mad about, and I told you about it. Yeah, and you didn't have to think, you know what it is, Okay. It happened inform us. Okay. So we had a big meeting at our church on Wednesday, which is why I actually we're recording today. Uh. And it was it was, you know, twelve different people. You know, It's like, it's a pretty decent sized meeting. And so I stop at a place that gives donuts and coffee out. I'm not going to mention the name of the organization of the company because that would be. Rude, but the initials are. But it was Dunkin Donuts, and so I walked in and I said, hey, I want to They call them box of Joe's, you know, the corrafs of coffee. I said, can I have two box of Joe's and and then some cream and some sugar? And they said absolutely. So they give me these two boxes of coffee, and they get this really big bag and they stacked it with cups and lids, and napkins and stirs and bags of sugar and cream. And then and they sealed it, because they peel it and they seal it, and they said, okay, here you go, and I said, okay, great, So I took it and I threw it in the back. And then I had gotten to the church and I had looked, and here, come to find out, the cream were not individual creamers on the bottom of that bag. They filled a cup of cream. Oh no, and they just stuck it on the bottom of the bag. And yet here's here's here's what made Chris. Here's what made Chris mad, not that they gave me a cup of cream, the fact that they said, they didn't say, oh, by the way, in the bottom of this bag, be careful, there's a cup of cream. Hey, make sure you don't put this bag sideways, because there's a cup of cream in your car that will literally spill and leak all over your truck if you decide to, you know, put it sideways. So what kind of person does that. I don't know, A horrible person, A horrible human being, a horrible human what. Yeah. So, and by the way, it wasn't just one cup, two cups of cream. Two massive cups pot twist right there. We didn't expect, we didn't see it coming, but. Hey, it wasn't one. But I will say this. Two I will say this. So obviously the bag was sideways, Obviously it leaked, But two things that saved me. Number one, the cut the lid did not pop off because it would have popped off in the whole cup. Yes, right, but it dripped and dripped and dripped and leaked and leaked, and there was probably eighth of an inch of maybe even a quarter of an inch of cream all on the bottom. Okay. And number two, Uh, the bag for some reason was like completely water resistant what it contained everything, So there was not a single thing that actually happened to my truck. But when I pulled everything out, it was all way too and so that was bad. Well that person. Uh, plagues be upon. Thee May their teeth be shattered, and may they be slapped in the face spiritually. If you missed. A couple of days ago, we read from Psalm chapter three when David was complaining about his enemies. Yes, and he asked he asked God to rescue him, Yes, and then says, slap all my enemies in the face and shatter the teeth of the wicked. Yes, so there you go. I gotta tell you that made Chris mad a lot. Well, I can imagine what kind of person does that. I don't know. So there you are again, and I'm going to say this is one of the rare ones. Yes, it's not for everybody. This is your kind. Of Oh no, no, this is for everybody. Well I don't think it is. This one is so for all the women and men out there that have ever had this happen to them. Yeah, it is for all the employees that. I don't know that this one's as noble as the others. It doesn't feel as noble to me. This one feels like it's just a thing that happened to you and you're mad. But it's fine because this segment is called Christmas. I disagree, but let me tell you why. Because whether it's cream or getting your order wrong or whatever, it is, the bad customer service is bad customer service, right, And in this case it was it was actually like, you know, why would why would you not say? It's like saying, hey, be careful, this plate is hot. Who who would drop off a tray or a plate in front of you and not say be careful, hot plate. And other other times when you do it, you do it because that person consistently probably is giving bad customer service. And this one you don't think this is a one time event like he forgot to tell you, oh, be careful. That comes in there completely. She's she's like a serial non announcer. She's not. She is every day every day. Somebody really bad. Okay, yeah, all right, well there you go, Chris, Thank you, Thank you on behalf of all of our listeners who can't speak for themselves today. Yes, that you are I rate for the rest of us. You are welcome. So it's good. Such a noble thing. You know. You convinced me of how noble you are. I for a moment was thinking maybe this was just you. You questioned my nobility, sir. Okay, speaking of nobility, Joe Abb challenges the king. Okay, all right, too bad. Well that's what we're doing. I was challenging your nobility. Yes, and here Joe Ab comes in and challenges. Good job, Jeff. So In second Sandwiti chapter, this is one of our new goals is to have terrible segues. That's one of our goals. We haven't run this show deep enough into the ground. We're gonna we're gonna get out our shovels, and and one more amazing thing. It just makes it even work. That's okay. So it's like a Samuel chapter nineteen. David challenges the king, I mean, Joeb challenges the king, and it says this. Words soon reached Joab that the king was weeping and mourning for Absalom. As all the people heard of the king's deep grief for his son, the joy of that day's victory was turned into deep sadness. They crept it back into the town that day as though they were ashamed and had deserted in battle. The king covered his face with his hands and kept on crying, Oh, my son, Absolom, Oh, Absolom, my son, my son. And then Joeab went to the king's room and said to him, we saved your life today, and the lives of your sons, your daughters, and your wives and concubines. And yet you act like this, making us feel ashamed of ourselves. You seem to love those who hate you and hate those who love you. You've made it clear today that your commanders and troops mean nothing to you. It seems that if Absolom had lived and all of us had died, you would be pleased. Now I go out there and congratulate your troops, for I swear by the Lord that if you don't go out, not a single one of them will remain here tonight. Then you will be worse off than ever before. So the king went out and took his seat at the town gate, and as the news spread throughout the town that he was there, everyone went to him. Meanwhile, the Israelites who had supported Absalom fled to their homes, and through out all the tribes of Israel there was much discussion and argument going on. The people were saying, the king rescued us from our enemies and saved us from the Philistines, but Absalom chased him out of the country. Now Absalom, who we anointed to rule over us, is dead. Why not ask David to come back and be our king again? And then King David sent Zadok and Abiathar and the priests to say to the elders of Judah, why are you the last ones to welcome back the king into his palace? For I've heard that all Israel is ready. You are my relatives, my own tribe, my own flesh and blood, So why are you the last ones to welcome the back the king and David told them to tell a massa. Since you are my own flesh and blood like joe Ab, may God strike me and even kill me if I do not appoint you as commander of my army in his place. Then a massa convinced all the men of Judah, and they responded unanimously. They sent word to the king, returned to us, and bring back all who are with you. Yeah, I feel like I want to read those next three verses too. David returns to do it. So the king started back to Jerusalem, and when he arrived at the Jordan River, the people of Judah came to Gilgal to meet him and escort him across the river. SHIMIAI, son of Gheira, the man from Hurum in Benjamin, hurried across with the men of Judah to wuckme King David. A thousand other men from the tribe of Benjamin were with him, including Zeba, the chief servant of the House of Saul, and Zebra's fifteen sons and twenty servants. They rushed down to the Jordan to meet the king, and they crossed the shallows of the Jordan to bring the king's household across the river, helping him in every way they could. Well, the content of that wasn't as attractive as the title. The title was David's Return to Jerusalem. Yeah, right, so I guess let's just keep going. Let's keep going. Really, as the king was about to cross the river, SHIMII fell down before him. My Lord the King, please forgive me, he pleaded, forgive, forget the terrible thing that your servant did when you left Jerusalem made the king put it out of his mind. I know how much I sinned. That's why I've come here today, the very first person in all Israel to greet you, my Lord the King. Then Abishai, son of Zurujah, said Shimi, I should die, for he cursed the Lord's anointed king who asked your opinion, you sons of Zariah. David exclaimed, why have you become my adversary today? This is not a day for execution, but for celebration. Today I am once king, once again, King of Israel. Then, turning to Shimai, SHIMII David bowed, your life will be spared. So that's why those verses, those verses were transitioned into the fact that Shimi I committed treason backed Absalom. Right and uh. And so David returns to Jerusalem and Joe ab Uh obviously has rebukes David, and honestly, David sort of agrees. He doesn't. There's no verbal indication here that David says anything back to Joeb. He just comes to realize that job's probably right. It's fair right. Come on, man, twenty thousand men died right to defend you, and you're crying over the guy that we had to fight, you know, so what we don't matter? That's a fair cast. Well, we actually said, you have proven today that none of your troops matter. And it's almost as if everybody, if everybody would have died, all of us and you're some would have lived, that would have been okay, because that's the way you're acting. And then he says, go out there and let the people know, he said, or else, I promise you. He actually said, I swear to the Lord, not one of them will remain here tonight. And what he's saying is everybody is absolutely one hundred percent fed up with you. But the funny thing is that's not really how David felt. David, of course loved his troops, he loved his men, he loved you know, the fact that they defended him. He just I think, in my personal opinion, I think he was wrestling with more than just the death of his son. I think he is in anguish about everything to the core of who he is, and so he doesn't know how to process it. He doesn't know how to manage it, he doesn't know how to behave or act because he is overwhelmed with grief through and through and through. So this is really a phenomenal thing. One it's fair in my mind for Joeb to challenge David. Yeah, that's fair. But secondly, in verse eleven and twelve thirteen, David fires Joeb and replaces him with Absalom's general. His chief of staff is a Massa. Now he fires Joeb, he demotes him. He demotes Joeb. No longer is he's the chief of staff, no longer is he the chief of the armies. And he elevates a Massa who was the leader of Absalom's armies, which, by the way, very slick move here, David's decided, Okay, I can manage it, Massa. I'm not worried about this guy. But he can bring all of Abslom's armies back into loyalty to me. It was very slick move, right. Then he demotes Joe Abb. That's going to come back to him in a little while, and he's heading home and everybody's having a party, and David's like, why are my own people the last ones that come and welcome me? Right? The people of Judah really, and so he's questioning loyalties here. He's trying to figure out who's got my back and who doesn't. He's all of a sudden he's at the top of his game again. With all of the difficulties of the moving parts of David's life, all these shifting loyalties, all these things, and David's right back in the middle of it, going, Okay, I'm going to demote Joe ab he killed my son. I can't have him still be leading. I'm going to raise up the leader of my enemy's armies, but he'll bring all of my enemy's armies in right. Rather than what if he hadn't done that, What if a massa who's a powerful leader himself. What if a Massa had decided instead, Nope, I'm going to run from day because if David gets a home, he's gonna kill me. So I'm gonna take all my armies and we're just gonna keep fighting. It would have turned into gerrilla warfare for years and years and years. Really smart if he felt like he could manage a massa, all he needed to do was pull in. And by the way, they were family members, so there's that he's bringing his cousin back in or whatever. He brings him back into the fold, goes hey, listen, you know all's fair in love and war, dude, So come on in. And then everybody's having this big party. They're having a big time. And then Shimmy I comes down falls before the king as David is crossing back in from what is modern day Jordan. Now he's crossing back into Israel, and Shimmy I comes and goes, hey, sorry about that, because Shimmy I also had committed treason against David, so and David is just showing forgiveness. It's very strategic here. This reminds me of Abraham Lincoln working with people who were his enemies, and he pulled his enemies into his cabinet for two reasons. One, keep your enemies close, right and and so that was part of it. And the other part of it was it was very magnanimous to him to show, hey, listen, I'm open to hearing from my my from the opposition. I'm opening open to working with you guys rather than having you guys continue to build constituencies against me. And it's very very savvy moves here, as long as he could manage SHIMII and Amassa. Yeah, well, I mean it just goes to show you that David is God's chosen one, you know, it is. Ah, It's a beautiful thing where you know, think about Saul. Saul was chosen by who, by the people? Yeah, right, and so they demand and Saul and look what they got. But but but David, God chose David. So there's a there's a big difference those two things. So here, David, you know, we just see even in the midst of incredible turmoil and grief and loss and curse, I guess, right in the middle of the curse of you know, sons rebelling against them and all this all this kind of stuff. Just in the midst of all that, we still see that David is the guy. I mean, he's for he extends forgiveness, and everybody else around him says, you know, what do you what are you doing? You know? And he says, hey, you know, it's it's my right. I'm gonna go ahead and extend forgiveness. And he's just a great man. And he's cunning, he's sly, he's great, and and it's because he's God shows him one. Yeah, I think so God chose Saul and had Samuel annoy him, but the people just embraced him and said he's taller than us, he's bigger than us, he's better than us, and they had that big celebration. So God chose both of those kings. But the principle is the same. I thought that people chose Saul and then God relented. No, the people were demanding a king, and God relented and told Samuel go anoint Saul. So yeah, the principle is right. Okay, people saying we want a king, they want somebody want this king. Remember he was hiding and Samuel had to go find him. He was in the luggage because he didn't want to. Yeah, well I remember that, Yeah, but I thought it was because the people demanded for him. So anyways, there is one interesting thing. David says, you know, Shimmy, I comes and very savvy. Again. Hey, he's gonna hunt me down and kill me. Anyways, this is what he does. So I'm just gonna go confront him, and I'm gonna let him know I made a mistake. I was wrong. I'm gonna swear my allegiance to you. Would you save my life? And David goes, Today's not a day for killing. Ael goes kill this guy. This guy is one of the leaders against you, and David goes, no, today's not a day for killing. I promise you, I'm gonna spare you, and he does. But one of the very first things that David advises is Solomon, when Solomon becomes king, is you should execute that guy Shimmy I, which is fabulous. It's terrible, but it's kind of funny. Is in this moment David goes, politically, you're right, I need all my enemies to come over and surrender to me. Right, that's what he's doing. He's allowing them all to surrender to him, and what that does. Is it just nobody in the kingdom is wondering, g are we going to have a fight? Right? Are we going to continue to have a civil war with all these enemies coming and surrendering to David and David being magnanimous and merciful, He's like, right, okay. But then later on he tells Solomon when Solomon is sends of the throne in just a few chapters, David's an old man, and David goes, hey, do me a favorite take out on it? Now? I gotta be real here for a second. How did you remember that? Was that a footnote that you just read? Or that's a footnote right there? Because I was just like I was, I was about to be blown away. I'm like, you remembered that from your personal Bible reading, okay, because that's that's amazing. By the way, I didn't recall that, So I do remember that. As soon as I saw them, I went, oh, this is one of the coolest parts of the story, right, But yeah, I didn't recall it. No, that's so funny. Yeah, I was just I was just about to be sick. I was just about to be like, wow, like you you remember a lot more here. I should have just said, well, yeah, don't you Right, Hey, that's the benefit of a study Bible. Guys, you need to get yourself a good study Bible. Yes, yeah, that's that's the reason why we always constantly reference it because it is you know, think about I mean, you could do studies on this, you really could. You could actually read up on how much work goes into Bible translations, right, yeah, there were reports, there's documentaries on those rights of it, and then and then even the making of a Bible like this. Uh. You could actually probably watch a documentary right now if you google it of how many scholars were who came together and actually created all the notes for this. So it's not just like one guy. There's a list of all of the scholars in the Life Application Study Bible that worked on it. And I don't see it now, but of all of the scholars that were writing notes and translating the different things. It's it's in the New Living Translation, it's in the Lifecation Bible. Yeah, they've got all that stuff. Yeah, And I mean these are some of the best scholars in the world with regard to you know, from different seminaries and universities and stuff working on these things, and it just really helps you because they're able to help cross reference and give you some background and then also offer applicate application. Here there's a whole big chunk just on Joe AB talking about the life. It's like a character study on the life of Joe AB with a whole bunch of extra notes at the bottom of where to read. And yeah, it's you should get yourself a good study Bible and get back to paper just a little bit, because I also have the same study Bible on my kindle and it's it's not very functional. The tools are so much better physically than they are because scrolling back and forth and trying to remember where a thing is it's just really hard to do on a kindle. But on the with paper a good study Bible, nothing replaces it. Not yet, that's great, Not yet? Yeah, yeah, what are you thinking, like, like something's going to be invented better than a book. I don't know. I don't know. I on occasion will use I have a couple of of theology based ais that I'll one in particular that I'll use sometimes to search a thing, and it'll do all the search for me, which is very similar to this. That helps, But as far as the study Bible goes, there's nothing, nothing even comes close. Yep. Yeah, it's fabulous, it's great. So basically what this comes down to is David I feel like, is all those skills have not abandoned him. He has wisdom, now he has all these other things, and he's making all the right choices to secure the kingdom one more time. And that's what he does. And then he kind of goes on this good will tour. He does so many good things for people, you know, forgiving up SHIMII for a while, all those things. Next week we'll jump into mis phibisheth and a bunch of these others that he does, just good deeds. And he writes, he starts writing again, and there's a lot of psalms that he writes during this time. And David goes and finishes things. He goes back to war, He fights the battles that he was supposed to be fighting all along. He just had this ten year window. That's just like, man, what happened David? And now he's back at it and I'm super excited about this next season. That's great. Well, hey, that is our time, so hopefully you enjoyed it and we will see you on Monday. On the Bible gus