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From LeverNews.com — Lever Time is the flagship podcast from the investigative news outlet The Lever. Hosted by award-winning journalist, Oscar-nominated writer, and Bernie Sanders' 2020 speechwriter David Sirota, Lever Time features exclusive reporting from The Lever’s newsroom, high-profile guest interviews, and expert analysis from the sharpest minds in media and politics.
Arjun Singh 0:00
Hey folks, it's Arjun here on lever time. We've been working hard to keep you updated on what's been going on with the presidential election as we head into the final weeks before Election Day. We're going to continue to bring you deep dives into both vice president Harris and Donald Trump. We'll talk about their records and their ideas and try to make at least some sense of what is happening in this very bizarre political moment, today, I want to air a conversation that David Sirota had with the podcast city cast Denver. I personally found this episode very illuminating, because for weeks I'd been hearing Donald Trump say things like this,
Donald Trump 0:34
they're eating the dogs the people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating they're eating the pets of the people that live there. That was
Arjun Singh 0:45
Trump in September's debate with Harris, and right there, he was doubling down on an unfounded and likely false claim that Haitian immigrants living in Ohio were stealing people's pets and in some cases, cooking them. Just to be clear, there's no proof that this happened. Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine said Trump was stoking a malicious lie. Of course, Trump doesn't care. A few days after the debate, Trump mentioned Springfield, Ohio again, this time to say it was where he'd begin a mass deportation program if he was elected president. Then he mentioned another town, Aurora. Aurora is a city just outside of Denver, Colorado, and a couple weeks later, Trump brought Aurora up again. They're
Donald Trump 1:28
now creating criminal havoc throughout the country. Aurora Colorado, you saw that where Venezuela gangs are taking over real estate. They become real estate developers. How nice. No, they're taking over real estate, and they have weapons that even our military hasn't seen. Who's giving them these weapons?
Arjun Singh 1:45
In this case, Trump was peddling another piece of misinformation, a claim that Venezuelan migrants had overrun Aurora and taken over entire apartment buildings. And it should be noted that, once again, the city's police force has refuted those claims, but Trump also can't help but stay away from this narrative, and it's a narrative that I'm sure we'll hear him play up again on Friday afternoon when he hosts a rally in Aurora. Fortunately, David Sirota was ahead of Trump. Recently, David was invited on city cast when there were rumors that Trump might arrive in Colorado. In this conversation, he'll explain the context of why Trump's talking about Aurora and how it fits into his overall campaign strategy. The conversation you're about to hear is also an example of why local news is important. Thanks to people like the team at citycast Denver, we can see how national politics and rhetoric plays out on the ground, and thanks to these journalists, we can see Trump's lies for what they are. So I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. In addition to the election and our new podcast series, master plan, you'll also get to hear David's thoughts on the upcoming Denver Nuggets season, who I should mention, have already lost two preseason games to my hometown team, the world champion Boston Celtics. And with that, here's the show
Paul Karolyi 3:05
today on city cast Denver. Is Trump coming? Or what he keeps saying he's going to come to Aurora, and, I guess challenge the Venezuelan gang leader to around a Golf I have no idea, but we've got a really great guest on with us today to talk about the Conservatives new obsession with Aurora expired plates. There's a new crackdown happening the nuggets and Ave streaming news and all the other big stories of the week. Today is Friday, September 27 I'm Paul caroly, and here's what Denver's talking about you.
Music.
Welcome back to city cast, Denver, the show about the city that finally has a reasonably priced way to watch the nuggets and the apps Bree we have to talk about it. I mean,
david sirota 3:54
good for everybody else. I got my I got my cable guy in Florida that hooks me up. You're
Paul Karolyi 4:00
not leaving him behind with the news. We've all been waiting for we've been my friend, Shayna,
david sirota 4:05
cousin. No, I'm not.
Paul Karolyi 4:06
I don't blame you,
Bree Davies 4:07
but I agree. I mean, I think it's great because I we've talked about this at length, but like, you can't build a fan base with people if they can't watch your games. And it was funny, we were in line at the airport the other day, and this family, Montgomery, was talking about the Rockies, and the Rockies, and the family in front of us was from Denver, and they're like, Yeah, but we're Red Sox fans. And I was like, whoa. And then I realized, like, this is a lot of people, you know, based like, they bring their sport with them, and we don't give them any reason to watch ours, because you can't so now,
Paul Karolyi 4:35
and it's such a transplant city anyway, right? Like, we
david sirota 4:37
don't. We want people to get in excited about our sports teams. So maybe this is the entry point. So I'll
Paul Karolyi 4:43
just to say what I'm talking about. Cronky Sports and Entertainment, the company that owns the nuggets in the avalanche, after years of negotiations, dispute, basically a deadlock standstill with Comcast, the biggest cable provider in the region, they've they've made a deal with nine. News to Brian. Broadcast some games for free on TV. And they are also launching an app called altitude plus, which will be offering all non nationally broadcast games for $20 a month, so you
david sirota 5:11
can still watch TNT like I do to see the guys talk afterward, but that's great. It's like, kind of no duh. How did they not think about this? Like, why not circumvent the cable system that not a lot of people watch anyway and get your own app? So yeah,
Paul Karolyi 5:25
I wonder. I mean, I predict that they'll be making less money with this than they were, than they used to make with the regional sports networks, the Comcast of the world, that might be the nearest but that money wasn't on the table this time. That's why there was no deal there. Couldn't make it they couldn't make it work anyway. I know our guest wants to talk about this as well. I'd love to hear from him. So we'll let me get through some business here. It's Friday. We're in the 5280 magazine studios. Breeze back. Welcome back, Bree thanks. Hey. The election's coming up, and we're doing some really exciting stuff. We are to talk about it and help you all make your decision about what to vote
david sirota 5:58
for. Because I don't know if I'm sure you all have Paul and I got our blue books in the mail, and they're like the size of the Bible freaking brick. And you're gonna need some help parsing through that as and we want to provide that for you. Yeah, so
Paul Karolyi 6:09
we're gonna be talking about it all for weeks on the show in all different ways. If you have ideas of a request, please let us know. We'd love to help with specific questions, but we're doing two events. So this is a save the date for October 7. We're going to be moderating forum for the candidates for RTDs board race for district, a which is the downtown district. And maybe that sounds boring, but let me tell you, this is the most dramatic, most exciting, most important RTD Board election maybe ever, I think. And I think
david sirota 6:41
we'll do some some shows leading up to it, to give you more of why this matters. But we know that you all care about transit, so I think this is going to be huge.
Paul Karolyi 6:50
I'm really excited. I mean, the candidates are interesting. They've got interesting ideas. It's going to be really fun. That's going to be at the Buell Public Media Center on October 7. There's going to be a link to register in the show notes ready for you all to RSVP and then Bri. October 17.
david sirota 7:04
October 17, I'm calling it ballots and beverages because we're doing it at Town Hall collaborative, and they have a bar and coffee, so you can come and hang out with us and some special guests. And we're going to talk about a couple issues that are on the ballot. Kind of dig into some of these things that are tougher to understand, because we know there's a lot for you to parse through on this ballot, and we want to make it as accessible as possible. So we're teaming up with Town Hall collaborative to do this live show and dig into the ballot. We're gonna
Paul Karolyi 7:31
have experts. Gonna be us. It's gonna be hang help you, help you figure out your votes. So
david sirota 7:35
it's october 17. We'll have more information to come and an RSVP link in the next week or so. So stay tuned.
Paul Karolyi 7:41
Okay, let me get to our guests. Finally, so excited to have him here today. He's a former speechwriter for Bernie Sanders, an Academy Award nominee, the founder of the independent investigative journalism site the lever, host of the levers. Great new podcast master plan that we'll be talking about a little bit. Welcome back to the show. David Sirota, thank
david sirota 7:58
you. Thanks for having me. David
Paul Karolyi 8:00
altitude, plus, are you signing up day one?
david sirota 8:02
I am signing up day one. Wow. I was. I tried to put off getting ripped off by fubo Last, last season. I put it all the way off until, I think it was mid January, and then I just I needed, I needed my Nuggets. And now this gives me, this is, like, what, 60 bucks a month cheaper, yeah, fubo. So I was so crazy. $80 ridiculous. I mean, I felt, look, I was an early cord cutter, like, like, 15 years ago. I was like, I'm done with paying for TV. I'm out. I'm done that paying for fubo. I was like, I just this feels bad, but, but But I, but I made, as I made it to January, I give myself a pat on the back. I'm I made it till January, and then I succumb to getting ripped off. Did
Paul Karolyi 8:47
you ever because I did the same thing and I got fubo for a little bit last year, same experience. It felt so bad. Did you ever watch any of the other channels, or was it just a nuggets subscription for you?
david sirota 8:57
Honestly, it was just a nugget subscription. Yeah, never watched anything else. Yeah, I don't even know what else it had. Oh, it's, well, I will say it does have, like, all sorts of weird sports that are kind of cool. So I will, I will admit to jumping, like, at one point, the pickleball tournament was on. There was a badminton tournament on. It was, it was actually pretty cool, but, like, not worth. It's
not enough. It's like, during the Olympics, you'll watch stuff you never watch, but that's like an event during, you know, a couple years
I should talk to I was annoyed that there's stuff on fubo That I deliberately cut the cord to avoid ever seeing, like cable TV news of people screaming at each other. I was like, this is literally what I don't want. I don't want, and I'm paying for it, and I'm paying for whether I want to or not.
But now you don't have to. No, I don't have to.
Paul Karolyi 9:39
So there's one other part of this that I want to talk about, because this because this whole like direct to consumer strategy for sports teams has kind of been bubbling up a little bit lately. This is not our main topic. We're not going to that deep. But I wanted to just point out that in the NHL, there's some other teams that have already done this, like Seattle, Dallas, Vegas, they have services like this. Utah has one. Utah has an NHL team as. Of this year, and there's a service that they've launched for their NHL team to be named, still to be named, and the jazz they get something extra. If you have a season ticket with either of those teams, you get a free year of their streaming service. I haven't seen that with altitude. Plus, that's pretty cool. That is cool. I
david sirota 10:17
don't think Altitude's gonna need to do it. I think people are just gonna be like, Oh, finally, an option. I'll just pay How
long has it been, by the way? Oh, yeah. I
was like, I feel like it's been almost past. So it's been, yeah,
Paul Karolyi 10:29
you can just hear like, you can mean, Mr. Cronkie, he's probably just like sighing over there, like making this concession appear, just crying into his $100
david sirota 10:37
bills, wiping his nose. I
mean, it is true, you really can't build a real large fan base if people
can't watch sports, right like and we have a team that went to the championship, so it's more expensive to go to games. Now,
the way I justified the fubo, and the way I will justify altitude, plus now, because, again, I don't like spending money on any television at all is that I started going to Esther's, oh yeah, in southeast Denver, like every time there was a game that wasn't on TV, and then it was like, wait a minute, I'm I'm spending more money. I mean, no disrespect, I love that restaurant, I know. But like, at a certain point, I was like, I just want to watch a I don't want to have to go out to eat like every time, yeah,
especially if they make it to the playoffs or rewatch a lot of games, exactly. So next time, I know same way.
Paul Karolyi 11:30
I'm sure they will. I'm a
david sirota 11:31
little nervous, really, yeah, I'm excited. It's a whole topic for other discussion. But I'm good, I'm hopeful, but I'm not, I'm like, I'm cautious. I'm like, It's not cautiously optimistic, it's like, worriedly pessimistic.
I feel like Aaron Gordon's, like, really hitting his stride, and he's, he's a Denver guy. Now,
Unknown Speaker 11:53
fingers crossed.
Paul Karolyi 11:55
We'll talk about it more when the season starts in a couple of weeks. But we got a great topic today. Our top story this week has been brewing ever since the Trump Harris presidential debate, which I think was a couple weeks ago now, September 10.
david sirota 12:08
I think September, wow, two weeks over two weeks ago. So ever
Paul Karolyi 12:11
since, ever since then. That's when Trump first started talking about this whole, like hysteria over the Venezuelan gang, quote, unquote, takeover in Aurora. But he continues to talk about it. He continues to say he's going to come to Aurora to do something. No plans have been made public yet. So the topic today is, is he coming or what? What does it mean if he does, and what is her What is Aurora doing right now? So I want to start with I'm going to start with a clip of his most recent statement, and then David, I want to hear what you think about this. You know,
Donald Trump 12:46
the governor is a Democrat, and he's a radical left Democrat, and he's not too popular right now, because they're going to take over a lot more than Aurora. They're going to go through Colorado, take over the whole damn state by the time they finish. Unless I become president, they won't last long.
david sirota 13:03
A radical Democrat. He's
Paul Karolyi 13:04
talking about our governor, Jared Polis. Okay, can
david sirota 13:06
we just, first of all talk about one thing that, well, many things. There's a lot of misinformation about what's going on in Aurora, and I'm sure we'll discuss that in a second, but let's just talk the pure politics of this. Aurora is a Republican run city. Yeah, they made a big deal over the Republicans taking it over. There are barely any Democrats left in that city government. So just the Maga movement ripping on Aurora. It's wild. It's like, Yo, it's your city. It's
like ripping on Colorado Springs. Like, where do you think you are? It's like, the
governor, like, what is he look what about the city that this is allegedly, I'm gonna underscore allegedly, that this is allegedly happening in, like, they made a big deal of, like, Maga taking it over.
Yeah, so it's goldfish brain, though, they don't remember.
I don't know, to me, I don't even, like a Remember, it's like what the government of Aurora literally is right now today. Yeah, yeah. It's really weird. It is very weird.
Paul Karolyi 14:07
Well, well, Kaufman is saying he would love for Trump to visit. He says he wants. He now wants, after weeks of he was so back and forth on this whole Venezuelan gang thing. He was like, it's a huge problem. Then he was like, we made the arrests. And he was like, it's overblown and anyway, but he said he would love to see Trump visit, because he wants the opportunity to set the record straight and show the candidate that. Quote, this is in the Colorado sun. We've dealt with the situation from a law enforcement perspective. So he doesn't want to talk politics anymore. It sounds like,
david sirota 14:38
I mean, the thing is, is that my takeaway from all of this is, first and foremost, there is a serious housing crisis in 100% agree. I mean, at the root of this is an out of state developer, excuse me, owner of property, owner with properties in disrepair. Properties in disrepair tend to create all sorts of property. Problems, right? Also,
they're making money off of people living in squalor, because these are the folks that will rent these places because they need housing so badly. It's
Paul Karolyi 15:10
the exact same situation with the Haitian immigrants in Ohio. I made this point on the show two weeks ago, but both of these political hysterical narratives the Conservatives are rolling out, they're both boiled down to the housing crisis in this country. Also,
david sirota 15:22
the police department continues to say that, while they can't say that there's not one single person affiliated with a gang somewhere in Aurora, the police department continues to consistently say this is not a gang problem, not a Venezuelan gang problem. I don't think the police department has any motive to lie about that, right? I mean, the police, police departments can lie and do lie, but about that specific fact, is this, or is this not a Venezuelan gang problem? What would the motive be for the police department to lie about that if somebody has evidence that contradicts that, that would be great to see. But why? Why are we sort of brushing aside that the police continue to say that this is not fundamentally a Venezuelan gang problem?
I love this quote from Trump said in Aurora, entire apartment complexes are being taken over by armed Venezuelan gangs with weapons, the likes of which even the military doesn't see. Sir, have you seen the military? Is he for gun control?
Paul Karolyi 16:28
Yeah. This is, like, one of those things where, like, if you actually listen to what he says, like, what does he actually think about this stuff? Like, what does he actually care about these
david sirota 16:35
are vicious, violent people. I mean, it's like, horrible. It's just racism. It's just old racism.
That's all. That's all it is. Now I will also say, look, I read a stat that it was 40,000 people in the sixth congressional district have moved in in the last year, many of them immigrants. And look, that's a huge influx of new people, no doubt, for a city, and it's it's going to sort of stress city services, it's going to stress the housing situation. I mean that how to deal with that? You can do what Trump is doing and just be just a straight up racist about it, or you can actually try to deal with the influx of people. And I feel like what this all represents to me is an inability to have a mature conversation about, you know, Population, Migration. It's just straight up lowest common denominator racism for electoral purposes. I don't think it'll work. But then again, like I'm, I'm an eternal optimist, and, you know, I mean, it's a pretty dark period of time right now, like, I could imagine it working, not for Colorado, not not electorally in Colorado, this is not a volunteer, yeah, we're like a stage for this, right? Like for the rest of the country. Let's talk
Paul Karolyi 17:55
about what's happening in Aurora. How are they going to respond? Because Aurora has declared itself a quote, non sanctuary city like you said. They are run by a Republican, Mike Kaufman. Also have
david sirota 18:06
this huge immigrant population already, and a lot of organizations are already mobilized to support folks in this situation. That's the interesting dichotomy today, I
Paul Karolyi 18:15
agree. And then the other side, they don't spend public funds supporting undocumented immigrants the way Denver does these newcomers that we've supported so much in Denver. Do you all think that this wave of national scrutiny, that Aurora is now like having this backlash of like, wait, maybe this isn't such a big problem. Do you think this is going to change anything in the local politics? Boy,
david sirota 18:37
I you know, that's a really great question, and it's really hard to predict. I mean, I look Aurora went Republican before all this. I mean, I guess amid all of this happening. So I and we are a state. We're going to talk about the history of our state. We are a state that has had that Tom Tancredo lineage of politics, a kind of a lot of people who are listening to this. Maybe younger don't remember that, but a real anti immigrant politics that was here in this state. So I think this is a volatile electoral issue, but that said it is a blue state, it is a democratic state, and I there is no evidence that this state's politics are going to overnight become Maga politics. But it's also to say that there are pockets of that even here on the front range for the
Paul Karolyi 19:27
record, there have been some new polls out this week for on the Trump Harris race in Colorado, and Harris is up. I mean, no surprise, but Biden that when he was the candidate, was only beating by Trump by 2% in one poll back when it was getting really dicey for him, Harris is now up by like 11% according to this poll from Keating research, which is a lot, but I was, I was looking back at a precedent for this, our last gubernatorial election, Polis versus ganal. Polis beat ganal by 24 percentage points, which is like, Duh. Double the margin that Harris is up on Trump. So I think there is something happening here. I'm
david sirota 20:04
just always trying to relate this to the everyday experience of someone in Aurora, like, is this really impacting their lives? Someone who is housed, who is lived there, they're, you know, for 10 years. Or, like, Is it, is this really impacting them, or are they going to be motivated by fear?
Well, I think, I think it, it those two things can overlap. I do think that the perception of crime impacts your perception of how safe you feel, sure, and so there's like kind of a psychological Vulcan mind trick going on here, right where, for instance, this has happened across the country, where people's perception that violent crime is going have a perception that violent crime is skyrocketing, meanwhile, violent crime is continues to go down nationally, in cities across the country. But the perception can change the voting patterns and can change how you feel in your in your neighborhood, right? And so what I, what I worry about is, if the police are saying, listen, yes, we have, like normal problems with crime, like within the mean, like normal problems with crime that sprinkling in, oh, it's, it's a foreign terrorist organization, a foreign gang, a transnational, scary gang, that it changes the politics of how people vote based on perceptions that aren't necessarily real, and also changes the it can change the sort of psychological character of a community if everyone walking more and more people walking around being afraid, yeah, right. And to be honest, that's how violent crime can go up if everyone's walking around being afraid in a country that's got a lot of guns, you know, that's one way that that sort of crime can go up. Yeah. I
mean, I just have thought about my own personal experience in my neighborhood and like, what changed when we saw the influx? I just saw more folks on the street washing windows, asking for money, but that was literally the only difference. I didn't see a change in businesses that were that have been there. The housing prices didn't nothing changed to me and the neighbor, my neighborhood conversations didn't really change and so but that's why I wonder what it really means for Aurora residents.
I did hear Trump say something that was, he's always like intersperses, like, once in a while he'll say something vaguely interesting, and and and almost like, accidentally correct. And he did say he was like, Look, states and societies have been built up over decades and hundreds of years, and, you know, a whole new Quick influx of people can change that. Like, there is a truth to that, that it that a society, a quote, unquote culture, does build up over decades and and, really, centuries, and that a whole new population can somewhat change that culture, and that can be terrifying to people who are there. Now, I'm not making a xenophobic argument, right? I'm not saying that. I'm just saying like that fear of change is real. And my
neighborhood also great example of this. I live next door to the Polish club. There is nary a Polish person on my block other than my husband's like, last name. There's a Polish event there once a month. The rest of the time, it's mostly Spanish speaking folks having Quinceaneras, weddings and birthday parties. That change has happened over decades, right? And the neighborhood maybe was more predominantly Polish at some point, but now it is more predominantly Spanish speaking. But this happens in neighborhoods in America everywhere. And look, New York City is a great example of that. So yes, it's part of, to me, it's just part of the evolution of city, the
fear of change, especially, I mean, if we're being honest, among older people who are used to their communities, not, you know. I mean, there was a, the old Wayne's World joke, right? We fear change, right? I mean, like, there's a, there's a baked in fear. And the question is, I go back to the maturity, like, are we mature, a mature enough society to sort of realize, okay, like change can be scary, but like we're being Vulcan mind tricked into feeling it be a threat.
Paul Karolyi 24:10
Yeah, to his benefit, exactly to his Oh, for sure. One more thing here on the local impact, how it's actually affecting the people of Aurora. I wanted to share this because I thought this was such an interesting Instagram post from Caroline Glover, the chef behind a wonderful restaurant, Annette, which just by sheer accident of the local economy, ended up in this Stanley marketplace, which is just on the other side of the border in Aurora. And so therefore she didn't have a chance to win a Michelin star, which everyone says she probably would have in the last couple years that the Michelin Guide has come here, but she put up this post, and she said a lot of about what what's happening, but this one quote was just like, I have to share this. She wrote, Our City leaders are doing too little to defend Aurora on the national stage and to call out these racist, anti immigrant dog whistles for what they are. Some at the top in our city are even feeding the flames of falsehood and hate for political gain and. This does nothing but harm our reputation and our economy. The city deserves better leadership. Let's be proud of where we live and work and work to make it better. Yeah. What did you all think of this? From Caroline Glover,
david sirota 25:09
I'm really glad somebody said that. I think it's I think it's pathetic for local politicians to try to use their own community as a way to platform
Paul Karolyi 25:23
themselves.
david sirota 25:25
I mean, it's really gross, right? I mean, look again, there are real problems in Aurora, like there are real problems in Denver, but the exploitation of your own constituency, your own city, to try to gain a national platform, in conservative media, in any media, and
make your city look terrible. It's just, why would you want to do that? That's the weird part to me. Bad about Councilman jurinsky's comments and consistent push of this rhetoric is, what are you doing? You're making people think the place that you're supposed to represent sucks. Yeah, it's like, whose fault is that? And then we have a restaurant tour coming out and saying, like, it doesn't suck here. Why are you doing this
too? Right? Because here's the thing, like, if you're a restaurant tour, I presume you want people to be, for instance, going out at night, absolutely you want people to be sort of feel safe
in feel safe in your community. So
when you're a politician is running out on Fox News and being like, oh my god, this is not like, that's bad for your business and
it's bad for the economy because the city you're representing. So it is. Yeah, I liked her point, and I appreciated that, because it takes a lot to stick your neck out a little bit as a business owner, absolutely you
Paul Karolyi 26:33
don't want to wade into politics if you're running a business, it's the last thing you want to do. There's so much more to talk about with this. There was a great quote from Governor polis. I'm gonna have to put a link to put a link to it in the show notes, but he was very funny. Kamala should come. You know, that's the real answer here. Kamala, come. Go to the apartments. She wants to talk about housing. Go to the apartments. Prove them wrong. Talk about housing. I know you don't need to, because you got Colorado locked up, but you should come. We got to take a break. We're going to come back and talk about David's excellent new podcast, if
david sirota 27:03
the if the President comes, I don't, I hope he doesn't bring with him an element of lawlessness or people that are causing trouble. Obviously, we welcome anybody to the city of Aurora to Colorado, but obviously we worry about some of the criminal element that he brings with him.
Paul Karolyi 27:19
All right, we're back. Our hot topic this week is David's awesome new podcast, Master Plan, which reveals previously unknown Colorado connections with Project 2025 the ultra conservative playbook for a second Trump administration. David, what is this podcast? Tell us about master
david sirota 27:35
plan. So master plan is about the secret plot to legalize corruption in America. And what that means is the politics of money that we live in, where we all kind of, I think, inherently believe and know that money is typically determinative of political outcomes. That system that we're immersed in is not natural. It's not inevitable. It was created through a series of specific decisions, specific policy choices, pushed by specific people. So when people, I think a lot of people think about corruption, political corruption, maybe they think of Citizens United, which they should, because Citizens United was sort of the capping off of the crescendo of this 50 year plan, and this, this 50 year plan to legalize corruption, to say that money in politics isn't corruption, it's constitutionally protected speech, and to say that corporations have a right to that constitutionally protected speech in elections, all of that was created by this master plan, which started back in the early 1970s with a lot of a lot of big Colorado connections. So our podcast, Master Plan, tells this story of how this happened.
I want to know why you wanted to dig into project 2025 in particular, though, because I have to say, like after that came out, it was like in the news for a week or so, and then sort of folks moved on. Why was that something that you were like this? There's more, because
project 2025 is a very explicit, detailed right out in our face agenda of what the conservative movement wants to do. I will give them credit for one thing, they are making very clear what they want to do. It's actually kind of an interesting contrast, like you can criticize Kamala Harris for being wildly, deliberately, annoyingly vague about what she wants to do, I and then you on the other side, you have project 2025, which is like, here's a 900 page document of everything we want to do, and we're probably going to do so project 20. And I know Trump has distanced himself from it, which is a lot of nonsense. I mean, there were a ton of Trump staffers who who were involved. In creating this and more more importantly, the Heritage Foundation, which is the sponsor of project 2025 has had a great deal of success implementing their versions of project 2025 for the last 40 years. Project 2025 is actually the ninth iteration of their so called mandate for leadership series, they existed. Their first big project that they did when they were formed in the 70s was to create, basically plug and play agendas for presidents. One example, they got a lot of press. Obviously, it was like their big moment when Ronald Reagan took their first project 2025 although it should have been called Project 1981 they took their first mandate for leadership series and implemented about 60% of what they wanted. So that's a reminder that when we talk about Project 2025 there's a very good chance that if Donald Trump wins, a lot of it will be put into place. Let's talk about the
Paul Karolyi 31:01
local connections, because that's what I that's what I'm really interested in. So it's all about the Coors family, and this guy, Joseph Coors, who ran this company for a long time, one of the many rich old white guys who ran the Coors dynasty. It's, you know, everyone knows Coors old beer company. It's not based here anymore, based in Chicago. It's part of a big conglomerate. But, but Joseph Kors had a big part to play in this, this master plan. Can you explain that? Sure.
david sirota 31:24
So one of the big documents that we uncover and look at in master plan is called the Powell memorandum. And so in 1971 Lewis Powell was the head of the American Bar Association and a tobacco industry lawyer on his way to becoming a Supreme Court justice, he writes a memo to the Chamber of Commerce in response and reaction to Ralph Nader. Ralph Nader, at the time, was this huge celebrity who was winning all these these battles. I mean, this is the era when Medicare, Medicaid, the EPA was was created, civil rights laws, voting rights laws. The government declared a war on poverty. Ralph Nader is a celebrity.
Paul Karolyi 32:04
Was he the seat belt guy? Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. He's the reason we have seat belts.
david sirota 32:08
Yes. So Louis, if you're sitting there and you're like, Lewis Powell, pinnacle of the establishment, you're like, This guy, Ralph Nader is like, I'm being you're being traumatized, like the government is doing all this study. Your companies can't dump the chemical in the river anymore. And like you have to, you know, you're in the tobacco industry. You got to deal with people saying smoking causes cancer, like you're freaked out. So he writes this memo to the Chamber of Commerce being like, listen, business is under attack. In fact, he says the businessman is the forgotten man. And here are all the things that we have to do to make the government more responsive to the businessman, the allegedly persecuted, sad businessman. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but this is really what happened. So he writes this memo, and we uncovered audio of Joseph Kors saying in an interview in 1996 that the Powell memo is what stirred him to get off the sidelines and start seriously investing in the conservative political infrastructure that became very quickly a very big and powerful force in American politics, and to bring it back to Project 2025 Joseph Kors, the probably the most famous political investment that he made was in the creation of the Heritage Foundation. He was one of the major seed funders of the Heritage Foundation, which in all of the organizing that came from the Powell memo, legal organizing, you know, political advocacy, media, etc, etc. The Heritage Foundation found its role in the policy we are going to be the policy engine for this movement. So very soon after Joseph Kors starts making his investments, comes what I like to call project 1981 that's
Paul Karolyi 34:04
so interesting, though, it seems like because I know we know the course history. We talk about the course history, and I know there was the the boycott, boycotts.
david sirota 34:10
That's what I related. That's what I relate the family to. Is the anti gay stuff. And I think
Paul Karolyi 34:14
that was the 50s and 60s, right? 60s and 70s. So he must have been dealing with this, and then, like, feeling this resentment about his business, and then he had this memo. It was like, Oh, well, the amazing be doing something in
david sirota 34:27
politics. And the amazing thing is, is that this, this audio that we uncovered, it was from a 1996 interview. He gave an interview to a guy writing a history of the Heritage Foundation. And what's really interesting about this interview is there's been some debate. Was the PAL memo? Just some some Reddit thread from some random guy? Was it? Oh, is that? What didn't mean anything. It was just some guy's, you know, rant. Joseph Kors, in the interview in 1996 brings it up himself. He. Is not asked about it by the historian. He says something to the effect of, have you ever read the Powell memo? Let me tell you about it. Let me tell you how I got involved in political investing. So the point is, is like, this is one example of how the Powell memo catalyzed this larger movement, interesting
Paul Karolyi 35:21
turning point in history that you all uncovered some serious archival research. I've listened to the series. I've been really enjoying it. Thank you. You sent Jared to King mayor, all the way to Virginia, to this college campus. Really painted a patriot. It's been a real ride. And I can tell people listen. I went
david sirota 35:36
with Jared the next episode that's coming out. We went to Terre Haute Indiana. Now you may be wondering, why would you go to Terre Haute, Indiana? What's there? Well, we got an interview with the lawyer who architected the Citizens United case. Oh, wow. So it's gonna be great time with him to discuss, like, how he got involved and what he wants to do. And it was fascinating. That is fascinating.
Paul Karolyi 35:56
I'll look forward to that. But forget free of Terre Haute, free of Virginia. We're talking about Colorado, and the Coors name that means something here, yeah. Bri, what does it mean to you right now? What does Coors? Yeah, of course, the brand, the name,
david sirota 36:09
I mean, I don't know. I To me they, they were bought out so long ago that, like, I it's not a brand I associate with Denver. Also, we were talking about this earlier, Paul, like, you know, you think about the beers that were popular, maybe when you first turned 21 I was in the era of the hipster Pabst everything. You didn't drink Coors unless it was the only thing they had. So it's just like not a brand that really resonates to me. And I wonder how many people really even associated with Yeah, I kind of wonder that. Yeah, I
remember in the 80s watching sports, sports. I grew up in Philly, but it was always there was always some tagline about the water, like the Rocky Mountains, all, like all that, I will say Additionally, when it relates, as it relates to Colorado, it is interesting to think about how many pivotal icons, political icons there were in Colorado in the conservative movement. I mean, I think it's easy to not remember that, or not even know that, because of what the state is now. But back in the dynasty era, right? Remember, I mean, dynasty right was, I mean, set there was, like, this was kind of a beating heart of the conservative movement. I mean, I think about the gorsuches, not just Neil Gorsuch, but his mother at the EPA. I think of Gail Norton. Gail Norton comes out of the Mountain States Legal Foundation, or at least that legal world. I think of Bill Armstrong, the senator. I think of James Dobson's group down in in, in Colorado Springs, family, yeah. I mean,
it's easy. It wasn't that long ago. I think that's a great way, not that long ago. And it really what I said to me, we were the hate state. I mean, it was not, yeah. And
I said to a friend recently, I was like, look, there are these places that were the beating heart of the 1970s 1980s into the 1990s conservative movement that had kind of a disproportionate impact on the conservative movement. Colorado was one of them. Another place you might think about which has also flipped is like Orange County, California, home of Ronald rea all, like so many Reaganites came out of this place. That place is now, I mean, it's bluish, purplish, right? It's, I mean, we're a blue state. It's just amazing to think about how much of a deep connection Colorado has, frankly, and to my, in my view, unfortunately, to a conservative movement that has really taken over a lot of the government, well, taken over
Paul Karolyi 38:39
a lot of the government. But it's kind of old school, you know? It's know, it's not the conservative movement that's in power now, like we talked about earlier. It's not Trump's conservative movement like Lauren boebert, I don't think is gonna have, just gonna feel much of a connection to like Joseph Coors in the Powell memo. You know, she's not part of this big master plan. She's part of a whole different tradition.
david sirota 38:59
I think, I think that's, that's right, the modern conservative movement is different. And I do think you could make an argument that project 2025, is trying to, essentially, is sort of the old conservative movement trying to keep its policy agenda in the Maga movement, like there is some, I wouldn't call it friction, because again, so many of Trump's former people wrote project 2025, but I definitely think you're right. There is a kind of old school conservative. I'm putting this in quotes, free market conservatism. That was what Joe Coors is talking about. And the Maga movement is something a little bit different.
Paul Karolyi 39:43
Well, for me, I think the Coors brand is a very hot brand in fashion right now. I mean, you go down to Rhino on a Friday night, you're gonna see people wearing Coors T shirts. I see, I feel like I see it all the time, really, oh, my God.
david sirota 39:55
You know what? To me, it's like, almost inane though. It's like, I mean, I bought a Nirvana shirt at Target. It. It's like, that was kind of it is it was. I bought it Nirvana shirt for the tour that my parents wouldn't let me go see in 1993 I tried to go McNichols arena, but you can buy it at Target. And it's the same kind of thing to me as you might not even think twice about a core shirt. It's like, the design's cool. The shirt fits nice and it looks retro.
I will cop to not actually knowing that there was, when I first moved to to Denver in Colorado, to not actually knowing there was anything other than Coors Light, like, I didn't know there was Coors banquet. Interesting. I actually didn't know that, which I don't know what that says about how they branded themselves, because Coors Light is, like, not cool at all. And it's not,
it's not even a cool garbage beer. Like, you know what? I
mean, it's not a highlight, the icon, the like the the logo, the font, it's like, really not cool. And like the beer, it's isn't really,
Paul Karolyi 40:55
maybe someday it'll be cool again. Have you ever been to the Coors plant, like taking the tour golden? I have not. I'd recommend it. It's full it. I mean, it's 100% propaganda for the company, obviously, but it's interesting the story that they choose to tell
david sirota 41:07
about themselves. Yeah, I bet it doesn't include
Paul Karolyi 41:08
any of this. You're gonna get a plug for the podcast.
david sirota 41:11
I think there's like, a paddle memo room, like,
Paul Karolyi 41:14
sounds like, if Joseph Gore's at his way, you might Exactly, exactly, that would be an interesting museum if you made a museum, there you go. See David Sirota Museum,
Unknown Speaker 41:23
there you go. Yes, there's
Paul Karolyi 41:24
so many fascinating connections in this podcast, like this, David,
david sirota 41:27
that's the stuff I realize. And I said to my my wife recently, I realize I sound like Donald Sutherland on the park bench in JFK, right? Where it's like, it's all a conspiracy, right? I know I sound like that, but like, everything in our podcast is documented, and for folks who are listening to this, come for the history lesson. Stay for Lewis Black reading the Powell memo. We needed another famous Louis, so we managed to get Louis black thanks to my friend Brett Saunders. Great
Paul Karolyi 41:58
shout out to Brett. It is a great podcast. It's very fun. It's it's, it's, it's not dry at all. It's not like that kind of history. It's very light. It's a nice tone. Highly recommend it, listeners, I want to know what you think about Coors in 2024 what is a Coors brand? Do you mean, is it fashion, or is it, you know, put in the trash heap of history, call in 720-500-5418, what do you think about cores? 720-500-5418, we're gonna go with one more break and come back and do wins and Fails of the week. All right, we're back. Best way to end the week wins and fails, aka Rocky Mountain highs and lows of the week. We each brought a recent local something that we think is a win and another we think is a fail, and we're gonna talk about it. And we're gonna start with Bree well westward
david sirota 42:39
reported that the Denver Police Department will be cracking down on expired license plates this week along Interstate side 25 and 70. I was not on the show when you guys talked about the expired plates thing. I find this to be such a weird obsession for people. It's definitely a segment of Instagram and a couple Denver subreddits where just people are just just reveling and taking photographs of people's expired tags, and are just like, I can't believe that someone else didn't pay for their license plates. Like, it's the weirdest thing to me, and I think it's a fail to me, because can we, like, be this passionate about, like, road safety or speeding? Like, why are we putting cops towards this thing, a low level offense, which they have talked about, is often a way to disproportionately pull over black and brown folks. What are we doing? And I just just like, if you were, if you, if you care about this that much, could you just care a little bit about traffic related crashes and real problems on the road, that's my problem.
So you want to fail? Yeah? Yeah, boy, I think I didn't prepare enough. I'm trying the fail that I've been thinking about a lot. And this isn't like, this week. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna throw it out there. It's like, recently, last few weeks, the whole property tax special session, yeah, let's talk about, like, just an epic failure of democracy in this way, right? Like, okay, like, there's a property tax dispute, or people are upset. Some people are very small. Like, I mean, not very small people, very small people, not a very small segment of the population. I realize there is a grievance about cost of living and property taxes going up, but the fact that they had that they held a special session the because there were a bunch of a small handful of very wealthy, anonymous, and that's the other crazy part, anonymous wealthy people who were threatening to run a ballot measure that could have destroyed the finances of the state, and so the choice was call a special session or or potentially will blow up the entire state, and the legislators are negotiating theoretically with like like men behind the curve. They don't even know who they're negotiating with. Just the entire display feels like a failure of democracy.
Yeah, I don't see a special session being called to support renters. That's exactly like we've had rental credit. We've had a crisis around folks that are paying too much in rent. Yeah, we have never called a special
called a special session? No, and I want to be clear, I'm not saying there isn't pain out there among homeowners who are living on a fixed income, sure, but that's a very small that's not who's being represented. That's not who got the special session called right, like it was presumably some giant landowner, who we I have my theories of who it is, right and like now we have our elected officials negotiating with like they don't even know who they're negotiating with. Well,
Paul Karolyi 45:48
I think they do, actually, I don't think it's that anonymous. I mean, maybe the funders of these organizations are but the people who have pushed these ballot measures and then eventually pulled them after the special session, it was Michael fields Yes. Of advanced Colorado concern, that's what you're
david sirota 46:04
saying. He's in front of the curtain. It's like, Who's behind? Like, we don't even know who he's speaking for, right? Yeah. Like, do we really want a society in which a handful of anonymous billionaires can just like, call the legislature into session because they, like, want a tax cut. I mean, that's really bad.
That's what happened. That's exactly what happened. Yeah,
Paul Karolyi 46:26
yeah. Well, and they, they let it happen, the rest of the legislators. But the
david sirota 46:30
thing is, is that I can also see the other side of the argument, which is, if those very wealthy people are threatening to put a ballot measure on the ballot that seems super simple, that could, like, blow up the entire finances of the state, like, it's like, it's a bad it's a bad choice. You got to
Paul Karolyi 46:50
try to stop it. Yeah, they had a good strategy. Yeah. I mean, the proponents of these cuts, it
david sirota 46:54
did work and and what I worry about this is, I'm sorry to go off one more moment here this citizens ballot measure. I'm putting that in quotes. I'm like, wildly airway, like, you know, air quoting here,
Paul Karolyi 47:05
okay, you can take shots of the ballot measure prizes. I like this because, no,
david sirota 47:09
just it's like, a misnomer, right? Why is it a misnomer? Oh, you know, citizens, it gives people more access to democracy. It costs millions of dollars to get on the ballot, like, it costs a lot of money to get enough signatures to get on the ballot, so it has the patina of a citizen's ballot process. But because it costs so much even to get on the ballot, it is a millionaires and billionaires game. So now we see the special session is an example of how the millionaires and billionaires, anonymously can use the ballot measure process that I can't use, I don't presume you guys can, just like, you know, walk out there and get a zillion signatures right, they can use the ballot measure process to get the with basically a gun to the head of the legislature, to get them to come in to try to stop it by giving them a tax cut.
Paul Karolyi 48:02
I'm gonna have to disagree with you about this. David, I think, I think all of these games are controlled by millionaires and billionaires. Of course, they have more influence, but we would have a much less democratic system without this process. And yes, it's easier with a lot of money. It's not impossible without money, and we do see it happen. You
david sirota 48:19
think you'd have a less democratic process without the ballot measures. Yes, the ballot measures being the way. I think it's, I think the only people who can get on the ballot are the are the millionaires and Billy. I don't think they're
Paul Karolyi 48:29
the only people. I think if you and I wanted to go out there, give me one. I
david sirota 48:34
mean, I worked for a mayoral campaign that we raised a couple $1,000 and we ended up getting 5000 votes. So it was possible, but
I'm not. I'm not against all ballot measures. I'm against the way the ballot measures work in this state where to get on the ballot, it costs this much money to actually wage a campaign. Costs so much money, right? Paul
wants to talk to you about this for
Paul Karolyi 49:00
a whole three points down. Said you
david sirota 49:04
think it's all controlled by millionaires and billionaires. Anyway, yeah, that's the whole point of master plan.
Paul Karolyi 49:14
Master Plan for more on the billionaire. Okay, Paul, your fail. I have a fail about a rich guy, probably not a billionaire, one of our favorite characters in town, Mayor of Glendale, Mike Donovan. For the last eight years, Mr. Donovan has been under investigation for an ethics complaint related to the permitting process for his then girlfriend, now wife, Debbie Donovan's shotgun effort to open a dispensary next to her strip club, shotgun Willie's. So the This is so funny business. Didn't have this story this week, the independent ethics commission for the state of Colorado, they issued a ruling recently that that said he will not be penalized for his actions. He they didn't clear him. They said. He did was unethical. His involvement, quote, impinged upon public confidence that decisions regarding permit applications would be made by an impartial, unbiased city council, but they're not punishing him. Who made this decision, this independent ethics commission
david sirota 50:13
in Glendale. What is there five people total that do all these jobs? I
Paul Karolyi 50:18
think it's a state body. But just to remind everyone what he did, that they cleared him. Oh yeah, what he did was he initially recused himself from the vote to permit his then girlfriend's dispensary. But when the vote didn't go his way, it was three to two. Donovan was in the room, and he, quote, angrily, stormed up to the dais, took over the meeting, and declared he was going to break the tie, even though the vote was three to two against. Okay, so
david sirota 50:46
here's what I want. Here's what I want from the Denver City Council. I want the like, seven part, oh, we've
Paul Karolyi 50:53
talked on
david sirota 50:56
Glendale like it is such a it is such a weird little island in the middle. It's right down near where we live, yeah, like, right where I grew up. My wife has represented pieces of it, like, like, it's just, so it's, by the way, it's hard to explain to anybody who doesn't live here. You're like, Oh, is that Denver? No, it's Glendale. Well, what's Glendale? You're like, it's sort of this.
It's where the strip club and the target is,
how many people live all night? You know, it's like a city three single family homes. We don't know. Yes, it's such like, that's your project.
Paul Karolyi 51:28
I love it. I accept the assignment. Have you seen the new development going up behind the target? By the way, it's gonna be like restaurants. Yes, I'm so excited. Yes, I'm
david sirota 51:35
super excited. I
am too. That's been a no man's land for a long time. Yeah, but
it's gonna take two years. Yeah, two years. But
Paul Karolyi 51:42
then Alamo Drafthouse Is that what's coming there? They say, the Glendale people say it's coming. They have posters on the fence that have the Alamo branding. Alamo refuses to respond to my emails. Yeah. I was like, Do we trust I don't know. I don't know if I can follow.
david sirota 51:55
Let me put in a plug for Southeast Denver. Generally, I believe southeast Denver is one of it for the amount of people who live there, it is one of the least well served places in the city, for restaurants and stuff like the Alamo draft I grew up. It's like there's a lot of people there, and it's like there are some good restaurants. And
listen, when I was a kid, we didn't have Esther's. I had to go to a bar there as a child called easy pickings. So things have gotten better, I know.
And the thing with Esther's down there is, I say it's not it's no disrespect to Paul. I mean, they've done a great job, but it's like part of their business model is them being the only one around. This is exactly how I feel about so weird. But it's not their fault. No, it's a good business move by them. But I'm like, Where, where are the others?
There isn't anything else well,
Paul Karolyi 52:49
and what's really coming soon, you know,
david sirota 52:51
what's really sad. Have you gone over to junction? You know junction, right near the right near the the movie theater on Colorado? Oh, yeah, where the Dave and Busters are? The Dave and Busters, they were gonna they had a big food, bustling food. It's like it's bleak
section is bad. I think the reason it didn't work,
it hasn't worked, is because people don't live right. It's, it's, it's right, and it looks like it's highway energy,
yeah, okay, let's
Paul Karolyi 53:16
move on to wins. Wins of the week. Good stuff. I'll go first. I got a fast one. City Council this week approved the rezoning for Cherry Creek West, which is the longest dating giant project just to the west of the Cherry Creek Mall. We had this big project last year on the show Cherry Creek Week. We'll put some links in the show notes. We can learn all about what they're planning there. But, you know, I just think this is a big plus up. You know, we've had this elways That was there, and there was this, you know, the spirit Halloween. Effectively, it was in the old bed bath. And beyond that sort of fell apart. And I think they're going to build housing. They're going to do improvements to the Cherry Creek Trail.
david sirota 53:50
People who love parking lots are going to be real bummed about this hall.
Paul Karolyi 53:53
I think they are. I think they have parking people, big parking fans are going to be sad. But the rest of us, it seems like it's going to be good for the city. I think it's it's good news.
david sirota 54:01
I'm always a wait and see guy on this. We'll see how it goes. For sure,
Paul Karolyi 54:05
they could mess it up. You know, the economy changes. Anything. It could fall apart. But brie, what's your win?
david sirota 54:10
Lafayette to celebrate 60 years today, it's the oldest family owned Mexican restaurant here in Denver, started by Michael Herrera, who also owned Colorado's first Spanish language radio station, and that's my familial, yeah, my familial, familial connection to it is my grandma, Joanne was Michael's accountant for the radio station, oh, and so. And I actually didn't know this. I grew up going there, but didn't realize it. And then, like, five, well, almost a decade ago, well, I boxed it 20th. I was a boxer at 20th street gym for 10 years, and a boxer with Robert Herrera, his grandson. And we got to talking, and he said, My family owns la fiesta. And I told you, I was talking to my mom about it, she's like, Oh, we used to go there all the time because your grandma was their accountant. So my wedding reception was the first event they did in 20 years on a Saturday night at La fiesta. And so it's just a really special. Place to me, and they're doing like a big event today, starting at two o'clock. You can come down. I'm gonna be reading some proclamations, and we're just gonna be celebrating a business that's been in Denver for 60 years and serves our famous Colorado Mexican food
Paul Karolyi 55:13
that's today, Friday, September 27 Yes, come on down. Get some chili RINOs wrapped in egg roll. The
david sirota 55:19
only way they should be. I do love
Paul Karolyi 55:22
that restaurant. You ever be there? You ever go there? David,
david sirota 55:24
I've never gotten the
atmosphere perfect.
Paul Karolyi 55:27
It's one of a kind. Where is it full?
david sirota 55:29
It's on like, Champa and 24th Oh, fish. Cool Park. Avish, all right.
Paul Karolyi 55:33
David, what's your win of the week? I
david sirota 55:34
hate to be redundant, but, but the nuggets news is, like, buoying me this morning. It is very exciting. And I get to like, right? I think it was yesterday or the day before. I was talking to Emily, my wife, and I was like, What are we going to do with this? I I'm addicted to the nuggets. Fubo is too, too expensive. That's 20 bucks. Like, now it's 20 bucks a month, which is like, not nothing, but 80 bucks, compared to 80 bucks. I'm going to be able to watch the nuggets, although, again, whole topic for a separate a separate episode, is I'm very worried about the nuggets. I'm very worried about Jamal Murray. I'm like Russell Westbrook is kind of a wild card. I know jokic has has, you know, knows what he's doing. But, and I should mention one other thing I'm worried about real quick. Michael Malone said something that made me a little nervous this morning. Coach said they need to be taking more threes, and like, they were not Russell Westbrook is, I think, the worst three point shoot, no, I think, like, statistically, one of the worst three point shooters, no, in NBA history. So I'm a little and Christian Braun from three, like, he's not KCP, like, so we haven't. So my point is, we haven't added any three point like skill, as far as I can tell. But the coach is saying we need to take more threes. It's like,
Hey, I'm not in County Golden State. I gotta have a different I'm
not sure, unless faith in coach, like, my faith is with him, but like, bro, like, I'll
Paul Karolyi 57:03
tell you what I got faith in with the nuggets right now. Is that new facial hair? The oakages, oh, boy. He looks great. Yeah, he
Unknown Speaker 57:11
does. He looks great. That's
david sirota 57:12
his. I'm regretfully telling you I have to come back to work. Basically, yes, I will come back and be awesome, and then I will go back home. Yes to Serbia. Well,
Paul Karolyi 57:20
here we are at the end of the show. Listeners, go, go subscribe to master plan. Do yourself a favor. You'll learn something. It's really fun. David, you did a great job with the pod. Thank you. Thank you so much. Big ups to the whole team, and thanks for joining us. Thank
david sirota 57:33
you. Thanks for having me. Thanks guys.
Paul Karolyi 57:42
You that's all for today here on City cast Denver, our producers this week were Lizzie Goldsmith, Selena ca Reynolds, Olivia jewel love and me. Paul Carolyn Peyton, Garcia writes our morning newsletter. Hey Denver. Bree Davies is our host. Our music is by Los moco chetes, with additional mixing by Tyler Lindgren, if you haven't already, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts, follow us on Instagram at citycast Denver and tell Glendale Mayor Mike Donovan about us. Next time you see him, you can sign up for that daily newsletter and learn more about us@denver.citycast.fm See you next week. You
Speaker 1 58:28
taste the high country. It is a relentless land. People with relentless men taste the high country. They are us. We are them. Taste good.