Identity Library

What happens when you venture deep into the Everglades, armed with nothing but curiosity, a love for nature, and a resilient spirit? For Josie Houchard, it marked the start of an adventure that would change her life.

In this episode, Josie takes us on a journey through wetlands, rivers, and the winding paths of self-discovery. From growing up as the youngest in a bustling North Carolina family to finding her calling in the lush Everglades, her story is one of grit, humor, and an unshakable connection to the environment. Along the way, we explore her dream of reclaiming wetlands and managing stormwater—transforming her passion into purpose.

But the heart of our conversation lies beyond the wetlands. Josie opens up about what it means to find home, not just in a place, but within us. She reflects on the challenges of being an extrovert, balancing her bold personality with the desire for connection, and learning to stay true to who she is despite life’s pressures.

This is more than a story about wetlands; it’s a story about resilience, authenticity, and the courage to take up space in the world. Join us as we wade through the waters of identity, adventure, and the beautiful mess of being human.
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Creators & Guests

Host
Veronika Becher

What is Identity Library?

Welcome to the Identity Library, a captivating podcast hosted by Veronika Becher, a German student exploring life in the United States. Join me as we unravel the different layers of identity and embark on a quest for authenticity. Each episode delves into how our backgrounds, cultures, and personal journeys sculpt our sense of self.

Every month, we journey into a new cultural landscape with our guests, sharing stories and experiences from the tapestry of life. Whether you're forging a path in a foreign land or simply curious about the forces that define us, The Identity Library invites you to write your own narrative or uncover fresh perspectives.

So, settle in with a cup of tea and immerse yourself in tales from around the globe with some sense of humor. If you don't find your story here, keep exploring—there are countless books with chapters waiting to be discovered. Identity Library is a podcast by WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2.

Veronika Becher 0:00
Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of identity library. My name is Veronika Becher, and today I'm sitting here with Josie hushard. I hope I pronounce it. Yeah, you get it. And I'm so happy that she's joining me on this little trip. And it's been a while since I've been in the studio, so I'm super excited, and the weather is horrible. So fun fact of the day, it's been snowing in Germany. We had so much snow. My mom was like, sending me videos today in the morning, and I'm like, Whoa. I'm not ready for the semester to end. I'm being snow again in Germany. But yeah, fun fact aside, would you like to introduce yourself? Maybe, yeah, yeah. Hi. I'm Josie hushard. A little bit about me. I am a sophomore here at NC State in biological and Agricultural Engineering, yeah. And I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Thank you too. Whoa. This is like, a really spontaneous episode. I

feel like I'm saying this every single time, and then I'm like, oh, I should stop doing that. But basically, we would like today to talk about something about personality traits, something we haven't like dive deep into these past episodes yet. And just like how to find your own home, how to be half of everything, how to be an extrovert in a big community at NC State. And just like the struggles that come with that, but before we do that, do you want to just talk a little bit more about yourself, like, little bit more in depth, who you are, maybe a fun fact, something that you know the listeners know who you are? Yeah? No, no, of course, I'd love to, um, yeah. So I'm, I feel like a big part of my personality is how I grew up, um, which I don't know. I've got a big family, and we're all very loud, very excitable,

Josie Houchard 1:46
but I'm the youngest of four by eight years, and I'm the only girl. So growing up, I was a whole lot of things. I was sort of a ruckus, er, but it all worked out well.

And now I don't know, I'm into a little bit of everything. I love, I love being around people. I'm a huge people person. I know, yeah, yeah. Like, if you ever see Josie on the street, she's gonna run up to you hug you with the warmest hug ever. Like, seriously, she's like, giving the best hug set that I know so far. And she's like, super enthusiastic, just out there, makes everyone's day. And, like, it's always this one, you know, if you would describe her as a leader in, like, our society, she would be like the leader who just wants someone to like, to smile throughout their day. And even if it's just one joke, she would make you like laugh. So that's like, the description of the day. Thank you. Yeah, that's the goal. I mean, I think if you can just make, make just one person's day, just a little bit brighter, it's a great day, you know? So, yeah, yeah, I love, I'm a bit of a goofball, so I love making jokes, and I think they're funny, even if other people don't always.

But, yeah, I loved it. I love doing things outside. I love doing trying to cook inside. I'm right now, I'm on that, like college student cooking, which is like making macaroni, you know, like, it's pretty sad. But in general, I love to cook. Is it that course that they teach you how to cook in dorms? Yeah, I, I think there might be one for a well, wreck, right? Because there is one. And I actually have a friend who's taking this class right now, or, like this, whatever club meeting, course, whatever it is, yeah. How's that going? Pretty good. I think it's pretty good. Yeah. I feel like I should get on that, because it's, it's a little bad guys vegetables, not in the diet. At the moment. I think the issue is you don't have kitchens, like as many kitchens as you need for the student apartment.

Veronika Becher 3:41
I remember, like, in Germany, we have like a whole floor, like, if you have a whole floor of just students living in one they have a huge kitchen, like, with, I don't know, I think 10 people can cook at the same time, yeah, yeah. Cuz, right now, last year, I lived in like a dorm, and there was just, like, one tiny kitchen downstairs for the entire building. And right now I'm in like a student apartment. So I live in wolf Village, and I'm an RA there, which I love. I love my residents. Shout out to the transfer connections village. You guys are great. I love my job. My co workers are awesome. My boss is awesome. It's just big smile every time I come home. So but, and so we've got like, our own little, like apartment, like kitchen, which is so small compared to, like, a house, a house kitchen, but it's got like, everything I need, like, I'm so I need to, like, run out of excuses and, like, actually start trying to be cooking like a real human being. Maybe it's just good that no one knows how to cook here because no one is using the kitchen. But the only thing that is always concerning is when people start burning things. Yes,

Josie Houchard 4:44
I think, like, I've seen people burn down, like a sandwich, or like a toast, like it was literally the simplest things ever in the tri towers. And it was just, just for everyone who is now from here, try towers are, like, basically just 12 story like building.

Things will eat like, it depends, like they have eight floors and then they have this tiny, little kitchen always burn something. Yes, no, I know because, oh gosh, the fire alarms have been going off in one one building beside me, and people are so grumpy. They're like, if someone else burns another piece of chicken, I'm gonna lose my mind. But do you think it's just someone burning it down, or is it because people just, I don't know, don't pay attention. The fire alarm goes off too easily. Yeah, I think, well, they, I know they're the fire alarms there, just got replaced, and they're so sensitive, like the shower steam will turn them on. I'm like, Oh my God, no, that happens at my house too, at, like, my home, home with my parents, we have, like, we replaced the the smoke detector, and every time it would go off in, like, whenever I left the shower, like the bathroom door open, and like, I would shower, you know, I'm like, at the time, I was like, I'm, what's like, 1718, so sometimes I just, like, shower at 1am right? And then, like, the alarm would go off, and my parents are both asleep, and I'm like, No, so I dismantled the smoke alarm, which I think is not good, but it's okay. There was another one later down the hallway. I think something similar happened to me, elephant. We just got

Veronika Becher 6:11
smoke alarms, but in Germany, we had, like, a smoke alarm that would do really stupid things. And so I had really tall guy living with me back in the days. It sounds like I'm old in freshman year, and so he literally managed to take it off the fire alarm, but it continued peeping. So what we did, the checking that was burning,

was like We held it outside of our kitchen, out of the window with the fire alarm that was beeping, and I think I got like over 10 messages, and it was like, Veronika, what's happening? Why is there pan with a chicken outside?

Josie Houchard 7:46
Everything you can do that, yeah, honestly, it's pretty cool.

Veronika Becher 44:59
One told me, like a secret, I will not drop it, but it's like, if it's my own feelings towards just something, and she told me that, well, you process things while talking to people. You were just a expressive person, the way of that's your communication style. And I guess it was so simple, but no one ever told me that. And she's like, you just have to find someone who can listen to you and who can, like, ask questions back, and that's fine. That's okay to be this way. And I think it's just something that just kept on staying with me till today that I realized, Oh, it's okay to actually be expressive, to be talkative, something I feel like I've been struggling with a lot, um, the struggle of, like, taking up too much space to be always the person that raises her hand who always wants to add something to the conversation to automatically falls into this like spotlight position. And I was like, like, just like a personal, like heartache, I guess, um, I've been struggling with that a lot, just keeping or taking up space and conversations. But once I don't do it, people are like, Veronika, you're not yourself. Are you okay? What is happening? Why are you not talking? Are you like, fine? And I'm like, Well, you wanted me to talk less. You wanted me to give you space. But then once I do it, people feel like I'm out of character, and it's this back and forth of me being like, should I even take space? Should I not? Should I keep like, what is the balance between enough expression and not enough expression in the circle of people? And then some people don't even give you the chance to even be part of the conversation. So it's really difficult,

Josie Houchard 46:39
something that I just struggle with, I guess. And I've realized these past weeks that I actually want to go back to taking up space. Yes, yes, I love it. I think you should take up space Veronika. And also, I'd like to make one note before I go on what I'm about to say. I love whenever you were talking about CeCe for the audience, she just, it was interesting seeing the little ways that her voice changed and her faces changed, because it's like, you sounded like, Cece, like the words you used. I was like, wow, like you, it was a really cool thing to watch. That was, that was awesome.

Veronika Becher 6:52
The fire alarm separately, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it happens. You

Josie Houchard 6:57
know, it's part of the learning process. I like to think, yeah, exactly, but yeah. Besides that, I'm I'm just all over the place. I like to do a lot of different things. I love to travel. Oh, fun fact, my favorite animal is a manatee, and my second favorite is a river otter. So it's, I'm a pretty happy person when I'm in an environment that has both, which sort of makes sense with what I want to do. I love wetlands, I love rivers, so I'm really into that kind of stuff. Canoeing, that's big for me. I've tried it only once. Oh, it's so good. I was just in a canoeing class this semester because I've like, canoed my whole life, but like, now I know how to do crazy moves with canoes. I know how to drift it like, I'm in, like, like, Tokyo, drip, like, like, I It's crazy. The things I can do with a canoe now, so I'd like really recommend it. It's awesome.

Veronika Becher 7:51
So if you ever see someone drifting down the river, you know, it's Josie, you

Josie Houchard 7:55
know it's me. I'm doing crazy maneuvers. I'm du fecting, I'm cross defecting. What are you gonna do? I don't know, just

Veronika Becher 8:01
like, turn around and then you get up again. Just like, it's pretty crazy. But yeah, I'm just like, Well, I'm just taking it in with the canoeing thing. Yeah, the pictures are just coming in. But yeah, I Well, I think that's super interesting. Like, just being like, surrounded by nature, studying wetlands completely differently than what I'm doing. But what is something that you like, enjoy about it?

Josie Houchard 8:30
Enjoy that? Well, gosh, I am. It's actually pretty interesting how I got to like, like this, this passion, because I've always loved like, wetlands and things, um, I because it's, I don't know something about just sort of draws me in. I love water. Every time I'm in water, I'll be in the ocean, I'll be like, body surfing. My body's just getting hammered by these waves, like everyone else is on inside hours ago. I'm like, No, I'm staying out here. So anytime around water, I'm happy. And like, wetlands are just such a cool environment, because, hey, they're phenomenal for, like, just how they process things, pollutants in the environment, they've got, like, like, beautiful, just diversity there. That's like, where a lot of animals will, like, have their young, sometimes the very protected area. It's like, this a sponge too, that takes up, you know, like, bad things in the environment. It holds water whenever there's flooding events. It's just really cool. And I sort of stumbled upon the fact that this could be, like, something I actually do, and like, I could get paid for, which is crazy, because it's I do it for free. Um, but when I was in sophomore year of high school, I went on, like, a biology trip to the Florida Everglades. And if y'all aren't familiar with the Florida Everglades, it's so hot, especially in August, and that's exactly where I was going. When I was going, it was the first week of August. We had no water. We had, like, running water. We had no electricity. And it was just like me and like 30 other people in like, like hammocks and like these tents. And halfway through a tropical storm hit. And so the place that we were camping was. Literally, three and a half feet of standing water was where we were, like, like, above, above you, was where we were camping. So like, we ended up just going to this random, like, like, motel, and we're in the middle of nowhere because we're in the Everglades, you know what I mean. And so like, like, we like, 3030, minutes away, and we're having to this weird car pool because there's only like, two cars in this entire group. So, like, we're at a gas station waiting to, like, get taken out of this monsoon that's hitting. It feels like, you know, um, and it was just like, so cool, because it's like, despite all these things that are happening, I was like, This is amazing. I felt like I was in like, drastic, like a dinosaur could have come out of nowhere. Because it's like, these environments are just so cool. And like, we were studying, like, every day we do, like, studying a different kind of thing. So we'd like study, you know, like invertebrates, and the next day, it's like, we'd go looking for mammals, and then, you know, we'd look, we go birding. And like we do, like, you know, I don't know, hike however many miles every day, and you'd have, like, these horrible blisters on your feet. And it was just like, especially, because everything you own is now wet. Like it was awful. It was so bad. And I had one pair of rain boots, and they had a giant hole in the bottom that I didn't realize until I was there. But, like, it was really cool. And then I was like, I love, like, being in these areas, but I don't just want to study them, like, I want to fix things, you know, and I'm a huge, big picture person. And so it was interesting, because it's like, my high school also had, like, a CTE route where they were trying to teach us technical skills. And I was in the manufacturing engineering one, and I was like, I don't know about this manufacturing choice. I know. I know. I honestly, I chose that because the lab had really cool, like, like air hoses coming out of the ceiling. It just looked cool. And I was, like, in eighth grade when I decided what pathway I wanted to be in. I know it was such a choice. And, like, I'm not like a factory person, like, I think that stuff is so cool. I Oh, my God, I'd go crazy. I think, I think working there, and it's like a lot of my family does, and I'm like, I just can't, you know, I can't be working on, like, manufacturing things, but I really liked, like, problem solving with engineering. And so it was just something that, like, I don't know, like, it just all sort of, like, came together, and it was like, Oh, this makes so much. Like, as a kid, I loved building forts, I loved problem solving, I loved all and I loved being outside. And then someone, like, in senior year they I had to have, like, an internship, and I did one with my natural with the Natural Resources Department in my county, and they were like, you know, you can combine these things. And I was, what? And my brain just got blown. I was like, I can fix problems and also work in the environment and work in wetlands and rivers and stuff. And they were like, yeah, so now I really want to work with that. I want to work with, like, not only helping, like, protect wetlands, because a lot of times they've been, like, drained or just, like, they're very under appreciated environment. So it's, I know, I know it's, it'll bog you down, and so, like, it's the so I could work to, like, reclaim them, or like, sort of size, like a wetland in an environment that might, like, need water retention, or, like, just dealing with that kind of stuff for storms, and that could increase the storm water capacity, which means there's less flooding events, safer for things. And like, like, just working with that, working with helping make river banks erode a little less because of human activity. So just sort of working with, like, just making those environments and, like, in turn, those plants and animals and just everything happy there. So, yeah, this

Veronika Becher 13:32
one's amazing. Seriously, I'm like, Oh, someone is passionate about what they're doing. No, that makes me super excited, maybe, like, Where you from? Like, I'm just curious. Yeah, yeah. Map,

Josie Houchard 13:44
I'm from. Okay, so I'm, I'm grew up in Mitchell County, North Carolina, from Spruce Pine. So shout out. If anyone listening knows where that is. Most people don't, but it's in the mountains of North Carolina, about an hour away from Nashville, hour away from Boone, and it's a beautiful area. So I live there. It's like, right by the Blue Ridge Parkway. We're 30 minutes away from Mount Mitchell. It's super cool. So I grew up there, and then when I was 11, I moved to Gaston County, North Carolina. Another shout out. I live in Belmont. We're like, 25 minutes away from Charlotte. So it's sort of extremely different, because I went from, you know, somewhere where the most exciting thing that we had in town was a Walmart. Was a Walmart to being 25 minutes away from the largest city in the state, you know. So it was sort of interesting. But I think growing up in Mitchell County definitely gave me a lot of that passion for the environment, because I was outside way more than I was inside. And, you know, you just we grew up with all this natural beauty around us, the mountains, a lot of forests that weren't, you know, as touched as they are in many places you see around the state, and it was just lovely. It was a place that really honored that you know,

Veronika Becher 14:55
are you more like a mountain person or like was it just. Like, it makes sense? You like wetlands? Oh,

Josie Houchard 15:02
it's so hard. This is such a it's such a hard question for me, because it's like, my soul loves the mountains, of course, because I'm from there, but I also sort of have a little bit of a interesting, I don't know feeling about that too, because the mountains are also sometimes a hard place to grow up, like I was in an area that it's beautiful and there's lovely people there, but it's also very there, but it's also very economically depressed, and there's not that many opportunities. So it's something that, like, I think sometimes the environment got a little bit mixed up with my feelings about my opportunities there, or, you know, like, like, what daily life sometimes look like there. But, and I love the ocean, because I love water. I spend actually decent time in Florida too, because we've got some family down there, and we're on like the they're on the Gulf Coast, and it's called The Forgotten Coast of Florida. So we go down to wacola County, and it's like the least developed County in Florida, and they've got, of course, beautiful wetlands there. Oh my god.

Veronika Becher 15:58
Oh, happiness.

Josie Houchard 16:02
It's so nice. And so it's like that in like water, and I'm like, this is such a perfect environment. But then I like, go up to the mountains, and I'm like, oh my god, I forgot how much I I love these trees, and I love the lichens and the moss here, and just the soil is so rich. And so I'm so split. I'm so split

Veronika Becher 16:20
and the smell. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you it's this smell of most and, yeah, wetland and just the mountains and nature in general. That's how I feel about it. Yes,

Josie Houchard 16:34
yes. I know whenever one of my best friends, we actually were best or next door neighbors, whenever we grew up, and she's two years younger than me, so we didn't meet in school, we just school. We just met because we were neighbors, and this was in the mountains, and like, I'd go over anytime we had, like, snow days, I just take a suitcase and go to her house, and I'd spend four days at her house, and vice versa, you know, like we were together all the time. And so every time I go to visit her, as soon as I, like, I love the windows down, by the way, whenever I drive, just a fun fact. But like, as soon as I go to visit her, like, no matter what temperature it is outside, no matter what's happening if I didn't have the windows down, as soon as I enter my neighborhood, my old neighborhood, I put down the windows because you can just smell the earth and like the moss, like exactly what you're talking it's just like, Oh my God. It's, I think, the best smell that has ever existed. It's so lovely.

Veronika Becher 17:24
Actually, my hometown in like Germany, aircraft specifically, is really wet, and we have more wetland than we have other we don't really have mountains more like hills, because we live in, like Valley area that was shaped by a huge river that now looks like a just small river. So just super sad. But this river DUS, that's the name. It's very funny, because we live next to Dusseldorf. What is translated the dusse, like village, but Dusseldorf is right now, not next to this, the desert, like river, but rather to line what is a huge, huge river now. So it's really funny, like, there's, like, a misconception now, and this little, little river shaped the whole area, the Neanderthal area, and we have, like, more wetlands. It's not as crazy, I would say is here, but it's still like it's really wet, it's not humid, it's just wet. I don't know, something in between. It's like, when you come here, like, to Raleigh, I'm just collecting hair right now. It's like it's humid and it feels like I'm in tropical, like area. But in Germany, it's like specifically that area, it's just wet, like, you're close dry a whole week on the wreck, because we don't really have dryers. It's not a thing in Germany, and people even hang them outside. I always joke, it's like, the most sustainable way of living, and we just do it because we don't have dryers. So I don't know. I think I can really, like, imagine how it feels, like, how it smells, how it is, like in this, like, really more moist environment. I miss it, yeah. Oh,

Josie Houchard 19:12
I know I How can you not? That sounds like so lovely. Oh, my gosh.

Veronika Becher 19:18
Do you if you could like, live? I don't this is difficult to decide, but if you could live in any like place in the world, where would you

Josie Houchard 19:26
live? Oh, this is so hard. Oh, my God, okay, I think okay. So I've not I've been to a few places. I've been to my family likes to travel, so it's something that we're trying to do a little bit more. So I've been to Italy, because we've got family there. I've been to Spain. I went to Ecuador this past year. That was really cool. Yeah, I think I don't know, because I low key feel, I feel like I'm at least a sub tropical or tropical soul, you know, like I love, I love snow, but like, I know who I am. I know the type of fruit I like to eat. You know what I mean, like, so, I don't know. I feel like it'd be really cool to I'm gonna go somewhere in South America. I feel like that. I don't know, like, like, just the environments, they're so cool, you know, like, whenever I was in Ecuador, I wasn't in the Amazon region, but I was, like, a little bit I was in Quito and kumbaya around the capital city of Quito. And I was actually working on river stuff there too. So it makes sense why I was having such a good time. But like, just, just the forest were beautiful, you know, like, you had this, just, this is so lush, and, like, the biodiversity is crazy there. So I'm like, I think that'd be cool. Also, who doesn't love, like, Ecuadorian food, and just in general, a lot of food for South America. Oh, my God, it's like, food for the soul. So I think, I think they might have a claim on me. But then I'm like, I love my favorite food is Asian food, but I've never been to Asia either. So I'm like, I don't know, like, it might be I've heard some great things about like Taiwan. I'm like, they've got really cool stuff for their environments there. I think it'd be really cool to sort of see what that would look like on like an island. You know what I mean. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm sort of spread out all over the place, but I think, I think South America might get me at the moment. What about you? Ooh, getting

Veronika Becher 21:16
questions back. Oh, I know. Um, I don't know. I'm really conflicted. I feel like sometimes in Raleigh, there isn't enough for me. Like I realize I love nature, I need nature. Like I couldn't live in New York all the time, but I need people. And is this like conflicting moment of, should I be a city person, or should I not be one? And I grew up also in like a pre city, like a smaller town next to a bigger city. And I liked it because it was full of nature. We had, literally, like horses running around, like in front of a balcony, seriously. And I loved it. I loved that we had everything we have we needed. I could walk everywhere I want to. I can be still in nature at same time, just take the train and be in a big city. But I also, I'm not sure like I feel like I want to try living in a bigger city and see how I feel about it, but then I'll probably miss nature, and Raleigh is like something in between. I think I physically, I feel really good here. I feel like the temperature, the weather, we have more sun, we have less, less rain, and then, even though it's raining today, and it's, I don't know, it's just, it's just much better. I would say, living in a space where you feel like happy and good, like but I'm not sure if this is the place yet. I might have to move first to decide where I want to live in what country. I feel like I haven't explored enough to make the decision yet. And I always come back to Germany, but I feel like I'm not sure if I've found the right city in Germany where I want to actually stay so something I'm not sure yet, but thank you for the question. Um, yeah, yeah, where would you say is your home? Like, if you have one, yeah,

Josie Houchard 23:09
this is a hard one. This is a difficult question, because, like, right now, when someone asks, like, oh, where's your hometown? It's like, most of the time I'll say like, oh, I'm from Belmont, North Carolina. But it's interesting, because sometimes I'll be like, well, technically, I grew up in the mountains, and then, you know, like, I lived in Belmont, so I feel like, I feel like, this is sort of a theme of my life, but I'm like, always, sort of like, half in a lot of different things. You know, I'm that person who is like, like, I'm like, fully, like there whenever I'm in something, but I'm in like, a bajillion things, and that is not excluding location. So I'd say, like, definitely Belmont is my home. But it's also interesting because, like, all my or most of my extended family, you know, they live in Spruce Pine or the surrounding areas. And my parents, they're about to retire whenever I graduate college, so in two years, two and a half years, they're gonna retire. That's

Veronika Becher 24:07
crazy. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's just really crazy. But maybe that being like sibling and like having civil several siblings is different, probably than being an only child. Yes, are

Josie Houchard 24:19
you an only child? Oh, new bag, yeah,

Veronika Becher 24:23
so I think that's always really interesting. And I don't think that my parents were tired yet. Yes, how

Josie Houchard 24:28
old are your parents? Oh my gosh, or like, I know

Veronika Becher 24:32
the I know the year they're born. Now, if you bad, beginning of the 50s, my mom is born 73 my dad is born 72 but they're like, couple of months apart. Here's my dad's birthday is on the 24th of December. So it's like, it's a choice, yeah, birthday there, but maybe a fun fact has nothing to do with the topic. His brother's birthday is four years later, on the 25th of December. And I'm like, I don't know what they did. But they were like, trying to, like, sync it up, so it's exactly almost the same day, yeah? And then my mom's sister's birthday is also on the 24th of December. So I'm like, I don't know what's happening, but Christmas is something just like, because everyone's birthday is just in January or December.

Josie Houchard 25:20
Yeah, yeah. What a crazy just everything falling in there, I

Veronika Becher 25:25
know, right? And then minus, in September, nothing to do. They're like, and

Josie Houchard 25:29
then also, you know, also me, yeah, exactly. Oh, man, no, I feel, yeah, my parents are. They're honestly pretty young to be retiring, but they've worked in the school system for public schools in North Carolina. And how it works in North Carolina is, like, you can retire for at 30 years. Is about when you can retire with, like, full benefits. So my parents are gonna be 58 but yeah, so they're they're getting close to that. My mom, she technically, like, like, definitely needs another two and a half years. And my dad could retire now, but he's like, I can't retire without getting in trouble before your mama does. So everyone's waiting, um, until it's and it'll be like, exactly when I graduate to which that's, like, sort of weird. I'm like, that's cool.

Veronika Becher 26:13
What are your parents doing? If I can ask, yeah,

Josie Houchard 26:15
my parents. So my mom, they've done a lot of things. My mom is a seventh grade English teacher right now. So she teaches, actually, at my old middle school. She wasn't there when I went, but now she moved there. And my dad, he's been a lot of things, but right now he's the superintendent of my county, which is pretty crazy. Yeah, I'm very proud of both of them. They do a lot of good work. So, you know, it's a hard job sometimes, because, you know, always doing so much, and school system, it's like there's always something that you can work on, always, always, you know, so many different things, and they care so much about the kids. So, you know, they're always trying to improve for that. But it's there. It's pretty cool. So

Veronika Becher 26:54
and generations change too. I feel like that's one of the fields that will always evolve, because you can't just create a system and then we'll work for the next 10 years or 20 years, or, like, 50 years. It's like you always have other needs to arise in the community that you have to address. And that's the challenge, probably, of education. Yeah, exactly.

Josie Houchard 27:13
My mom would 100% agree with you on that, because she's so like, they were both teachers. That's actually how they met. It was very cute. And they were both teachers. And then for about 10 years, she sort of went to the Making curriculum, size of things, so like, helping teachers, you know, like, like, teaching teachers, designing curriculum, and then she came back to the classroom and she's like, it's interesting how much it does change over, you know, like, a little less than 10 years. And like, she's like, the job has changed a lot, so it's cool, just sort of seeing, you know, how that will, I think, continue to change and grow. I don't know it's something I'm interested in. Lord, educators, I I have a lot of respect for them, because I'm like, that's a job that I don't I think I could do it, but I can't. Sometimes you take, like, a magic spark to be an educator. You know, my

Veronika Becher 28:03
mom used to teach too, but he said chemistry and biology. Oh, very so she worked also in the labs for the university, and then she taught high schoolers, but also, like, I think college students, it's like a mix of everything, yeah, but yeah, it's super different. And being she doesn't work right now, but she used to, and it's super interesting to just see my mom's side, like as a teacher, but then not as a teacher at same time. Yeah. And she was like, don't be a teacher. That was the crazy, crazy advice she gave me. But also, the education system in Germany is super messy, I would say, and much more difficult because you have like, two types of teachers that you can be one that is like out in the government, that's go this way, and the other ones are like, kind of the pre step. They have a completely different benefit package. And most people fall into the first category, first, before they actually become, like, stable in one place. And so depending on where you got your certification and your degree, you have to stay in the region. You can't just move. So you need to be, like, recertified. And that's like, really complicated. They decline it too. Like, people struggle with that a lot. And then the other thing is, um, you can sometimes you have to move each six weeks, because the government is like, we don't have enough teachers here. Just move, and you don't have a choice of saying no. So it's really unstable when it comes to, like moving places each six months to like a different city, like, I cannot imagine how people do that if they have a family or something like

Josie Houchard 29:40
that, exactly. It's hard to do that on a win. You know, yeah, six

Veronika Becher 29:44
months is not a long time. But yeah, are you a mushroom person? No, because when you were talking about wetlands, I have this one friend who visited me once in he's American. Ken. He loves mushrooms. This is, like, mushrooms have, like, a really weird connotation, like, we're gonna do some drugs, but basically, um, he just is so fascinated by mushrooms that I remember when we went to the woods, we would just walk around, and he will, like, observe, oh, like mushrooms, because we have such a like, wetland area that we have too many mushrooms out there. And he's just like, oh, this is this mushroom. This is that mushroom. I'm just like, imagining you running through this wetland like a happy kid, and I just see it, and I'm like, maybe she's a mushroom person too. You

Josie Houchard 30:34
don't even know. Walking here I was walking, well, earlier today, I was walking with two of my friends to lunch, and I made everyone stop because I had to go look at a tree. And there was a specific type of shelf mushroom on this tree. And I'm like, also, oh my gosh, just a random thing. I am so bad at ideaing Things I will see a tree my entire life. I I literally, whenever trees fall down and stuff like that, I cut them up for firewood. Like I work with trees. I work with wood. I am in the forest all the time. I will see a tree every day my entire life, and I cannot, for the life of me, remember its name. I've been told his name 20 times. But honestly, so I'm so bad at Idea mushrooms. But I love mushrooms. My My mom also is such an enabler, too. I've got, like, in my room, I've got, like, my little mushroom like mug I have, which I actually have, two of those. I have, my planners, mushrooms. My water bottle is mushroom. It's it's such a problem.

Veronika Becher 31:30
There are mushrooms in the Ural Mountains, specifically the area my dad is very good with identifying actually mushrooms. And these mushrooms, they are, like, as big as a head. These are huge mushrooms. But the way you find them, they grow under the earth kind of thing. So if you have leaves or something like, just in general, leaves and the like this, like upper soil level that just established itself through like leaves falling down, like other things falling on top of it, and they just go kind of below, like the upper surface, but you don't see them actually peeking out. So it's like, it's a trade you have to have, or like a skill, to identify where they could be. And so my dad is like, do you see, like, I was a kid, like probably eight years old, and he's like, do you see this hill? And I'm like, Yeah, do you see that there are four mushrooms below? And I'm like, No, where do you see that? He's like, You need to feel it. It's there. Trust me, they are there. And they actually are there. So you like, lift it up, and then there's a huge mushroom. They like this big. So my I remember my grandma would like, clean them up, and then you can, like, do everything you want with these mushrooms, like, literally, from, like cooking soups to, like just eating them to, well, not raw. That's the other thing you cannot do with them. Marinating them kind of in a way, we even have, like a salad, like a Russian salad, it's sour cream with mushrooms and onions. But these mushrooms are, they, like, they have, like, a acidic taste to them because of the way they are marinated in the specific, like, I don't like sauce, whatever, and then you eat it as a salad. Oh, very cool. But basically, speaking of mushrooms that were, like, kind of drifting off, and I'm like, fighting with the cord that I have of my headphones. We were talking about home, and like, finding yourself and where is home, and I feel like I've been having this conversation so many times this past week with so many people that I'm like, This is not funny, or it's kind of funny too. When people ask me, like, oh, where's your home? And I like, I don't know how to answer either. Like, when you said you don't know what is exactly like, where is home? And one thing that I feel like, I just saw it literally couple of days ago, it's like, it's like, it was just love how Jersey just COVID. It's okay. You can just come back if you can get back. It was Instagram reel something like that, where a guy replied, Oh, where's home? And he's like, home is not the location. Home is the place that makes you feel like you're the best version of yourself. And I was like, Whoa, that's something I've never thought about. Like, home is where you are the best version of yourself.

Josie Houchard 34:36
Yeah, wow, that's interesting. I've not ever thought of it like that. Like, I've definitely thought, I don't know. I'm that person who, like, if we're on a trip, and we're on the trip for more than three days, the hotel will be referred to as, like, do you want to go home? I'm like, do you want to go to the hotel? You know, I feel like home is oftentimes, like, where I am. Like, my apartment, My apartment is right now. Um. I can refer to it as home. I can refer to it as my house. You know, it's interesting, but I've never thought about it like that, you know, because he

Veronika Becher 35:08
was like, saying, and I know people kind of hate a little bit on Instagram reels because they're not really scientific enough. And there's a lot of them, but I feel like some of them are really interesting insights. And he was like, so if you have the choice to go on a plane and just fly over to a complete new country, because you know that you're going to be better version there do it. So his advice was like, travel if you want to, and if you feel like that's going to make you better person. And I feel like traveling does something to you, like being out of your comfort zone and out of your normal like surrounding the people, the network that you have around you, you can, like, extract yourself and place in a completely new field, and you realize all the problems and everything that used to surround you are gone, but same time, it shows you other problems that you might have faced, but you couldn't see it because of the people around You. And so you can actually work on yourself and grow as a person. And then I feel like, home for me would be like a place where I feel like, I feel good, like the people make me happy. It's this, I think the moments when I'm like, Oh, this is home right now are the moments when I'm like, in a group of people, and people laugh and make a joke, and I love of them. And this is like, you know, this really good dynamic between people that you like, enjoy being in that space, and people just make you feel welcome, like you're actually part of the group, that you don't have to include yourself and force yourself to be part of it. It's like everyone just gives you cup of tea and sits you down and gives you a blanket, and it's like, you're part of us, exactly.

Josie Houchard 36:45
I think this is something I don't know. This has also sort of come up for me a little bit in the past two or three weeks. But I'm like, I feel like home is sort of where you can just be like, whatever you are in that moment. You know what I mean? Like, it's something that I've sort of started because my new roommates this year are new, and it's interesting because it's like, something that I'm sort of starting to get to that like, like area in and it's like, oh, like, it's okay if today I'm feeling this weird mood or something that I'm not used to, like, that's okay because this is home, you know what I mean? Like, I can feel, I can be however I need to be today. And that's all right.

Veronika Becher 37:21
My best friend Avi, was visiting me from Germany, like she's studying right now in Vancouver Island. And she was visiting me last week, actually. And I feel like I realized when she was here and I I was just going through a really rough, like, semester, like it was just super stressful. I have a lot on my plate. And she arrived here, and it was the same space, but the way she made me feel in that space changed completely. It was like a shift. It was because this person makes me feel good about being myself with all my faults. And yes, she's a person who's gonna kick me like, if she has to like, you know, or tell me, like, redirect, what you just did was not right. You just messed up. But I appreciate people like that, if I trust them enough, because I know she also is like, but I still love you as a person. I still hope that you have the best experience you can have. And I think these are, like, the best moments with people?

Josie Houchard 38:21
No, definitely, I think, I think hope can be carried in people sometimes too, you know, like there are just some people. Oh, my God, I like me. I'm such an expressive person, with my emotions and like my my body and like my expressions are like so tied together. So anytime I'm feeling something, it like, cannot be a secret for long anyway, but it's interesting. Like, seeing those people who, like, if I'm having like, a hard day, or, like, something just happened, I just got this news. Like, sometimes you see like, that one person who you're like, so comfortable, they're like, those people, and it's just like, I just like, crumble, you know. And I mean, and I'm like, because it's like, oh, I'm safe, you know. And I sort of feel like that a little bit sometimes at home, it's like, I can be having a hard day, and, you know, I just got bad news or something like that, and I'm going along and, you know, I'm like, I'm gonna get through my classes today. I'm gonna get through whatever I have to do. And then you just see that one person, and you're like, oh my god, you know, like, it can make any environment feel like like the environment you need. You know anything, feel like home.

Veronika Becher 39:27
I think I can relate on that. When I think I returned from South Dakota after living abroad, and I think my first week of going to school, like back to school, one of the kids dropped something like, oh yeah, she got into a car accident, and I was like, Huh? And my I didn't really hear the full conversation, but I only heard a name drop being dropped. And my teacher at that time, she thought, I'm talking in class, and she like, she took me out of the class. Was like, what? Annika, you should be quiet. You shouldn't talk right now. And I actually just was really curious what just happened, because I feel like I knew the person. And it turned out that my music teacher got into a car accident and she died. It was super extreme, and I she was the only teacher in town that was teaching me how I actually played two not flutes, but two recorders and one that is, like, most people don't play anymore at all. And it's a really old one. It's a bigger one. It's like an old it's called out block photo, so it's much bigger. And it's like, you learn, like, for two recorders at the same time. So if you can't read the notes anymore, you like, rethink everything you've learned, and you play like a different instrument. And she was like, I was really close to her, and I was the only person that was she was teaching at the time, and I've heard about that. And I was like, what just happened? And I couldn't process it. I just went through my day. I came back home. I was standing there in my, like, small kitchen, I looked at my mom, and I just crumbled down, and I started crying and sewing, and I'm like, Oh my gosh. What just happened? I wasn't here for a whole year, and she died, like a month ago. And I was like, not sure what I should, like, think, say, I I think this is just the scary part, not knowing that someone is like, not there anymore. I think that's even sometimes worse for me, because I like look into that and realize later on, oh my gosh, that's what happened. And then talking of being expressive. I think that's though blessing too. I think when something happens to me that is really traumatic and I'm really stressed, I sometimes can feel anything. It's even worse. It's like this. I don't feel anything. I feel just empty, like I don't feel it. I know that I accumulating feelings that I can't express, but I can't identify them either. And so when things like that happen, and they're really important to me. People are important to me, but I don't feel anything, and I'm just there existing like a shell somewhere in space, um, all these emotions come back months later and they hit you out of nowhere, and you're like, oh, what just happened? And I started just crying out of nowhere in class. And that's, I think even someone is worse. So I think it's really, um, impressive to have someone around you who's really expressive and true to themselves. And you know, like, what I feel like when I see you and you're like, a really expressive person, I feel like, I know you're not gonna lie about your feelings, because you're gonna be true to how you feel. And, yeah, I think that's a nice it's really beautiful thing. If you think this

Josie Houchard 42:45
way, it's so difficult, like, what you're saying, like, like not being able to understand, like, like, what that feeling means, you know what I mean, like, not being able to understand what that feeling means sometimes, or how to place words on it. Like, that's hard because you're like, how do I even handle this if I don't know what it is, you know? But, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's something you can say, like, like, many things, but I'd be lying if I said that I could be anything but expressive about my feelings. Because even in times that, like, for example, I'm sort of a yapper, if no one can tell already, it's

Veronika Becher 43:23
wonderful. But

Josie Houchard 43:25
like, even in times that, like, I'll be like, I'm just gonna try and, like, maybe talk a little bit less today or something like that. And it's never, like, problematic. But in times that I, like, tried to do that, I just realized I'm like, but I'm not being Josie right now. You know what I mean, like, My soul is not as happy as it usually is, because I'm not doing, like, just like what I'm programmed to do. And I feel like that with my feelings. Because even if it's like, you know what I can be like, maybe this is something I'm gonna process alone. And I can just, like, not talk about a feeling or something like that, and then I can make it maybe an hour, and that thing surfaces up, and I'm like, okay, okay, I have to address this. I have to talk to somebody about this. Like, I I just can't seem to run away from them. They find me real fast.

Veronika Becher 44:13
I think someone, I have a friend who told me that actually, you know her, CC, Oh, yeah. Oh, I love CC. And CC told me once she's like, I don't know, I feel like no one ever told me that, but I always, every single time when I feel something, I need to express it, so I talk to people, and my way of communication is not an internal communication. And it's funny how we talked even class about MTI tests, and like how people that are more extroverted like to or tend to express themselves rather than keeping it to themselves. And it's interesting, because some people feel like I'm not trustworthy, or a person that expresses herself too much, or like an open book about everything, but I feel like that's the easiest way for me to come to conclusions, rather than keeping it to myself, like unless it's something personal,

Josie Houchard 47:11
No, it was cool. Like, sometimes, whenever you're talking about someone, you subconsciously sort of slip into like, a little bit more about like, like, what they how they communicate, like and that was so cool to see. That was awesome. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. No, it was. It was really cool.

Veronika Becher 47:30
I think someone else told me that we had presentations for neighbor to neighbor. What is like an service learning team organization here in town, and I was presenting my part. And I think someone on my table told me, Oh, you literally just embodied the leader who is actually, like, well, who is actually doing the whole program, and who's leading you guys on by being on stage? You like, said the same things, like, the way he would express himself. And I'm like, that's crazy. I didn't really notice that. Yeah,

Josie Houchard 47:59
it's, it's pretty cool. It's something that, like, I really like, oh my god, whenever I talk to certain people, I pick up a lot of their, like, body motions. I pick up a lot of their vocal things. Like, for example, this is so off topic, but like, like, my accent, like, I don't, I don't really consider myself someone with an accent most of the time. But like, if I'm talking, I will be in a room with someone from Mitchell County for 15 minutes, and it just all comes out, like, sometimes, like, sometimes you just mirror someone. You know what I mean?

Veronika Becher 48:27
That's how I learn languages. People are always confused about my accent, like, what's happening there? Like they hear my German accent. But there's also, like, it's just a mix of everything, and it's because I copy people the way they speak. It's like, the more I'm around certain people, and depending on what accent they have, I just pick it up.

Josie Houchard 48:47
Yeah, it's easy to it's, oh my god, on the biology trip to the Everglades that I was telling you about, like, my roommate was from Wisconsin, and I made fun of the way that she said things, oh my God. She's great, by the way, if she's out there. But like, she she said, like, like, agriculture and like, like, you know, the bag. And I it was so funny, because all week I was going through such a hard time, and then by the end of it, I actually said bag. And everyone looked over at me, and they were like, oh, Josie, she claimed you accent got you that's like,

Veronika Becher 49:20
how I influence people with my German accent, and then people start speaking the way I do, and they're like, oh my gosh, I should not be around you more, because now I like, I lose my English skills. And I'm like, Yeah, that's what you get from being around me. But no jokes inside. What do you like? Do you ever struggle with being like the extrovert jersey that everyone sees, and then having moments when you feel like you don't feel like seeing people, yes,

Josie Houchard 49:45
definitely. And I really resonate with a lot of what you were talking about, about, like feeling like you're too much this is actually something fun. Fact, if you are an NC State student, by the way, you have access to NC issue Campus Health and like, therapy, which is something that I've. Recently, started this year, and it's been really cool. It's something like not necessarily to target anything in particular. It's just been really good helping me process a lot of my feelings and, like, my experiences in life. But one thing that I realized is that throughout my whole life, I've sort of had this notion that I'm too much, and too much can be in literally every way. I'm a really physically affectionate person. I'm like, Oh, I'm too much, you know. Like, maybe my friends don't want two hugs for me a day. Like, maybe that's just so true. I know, I know. I love hugs. And it's just like, oh, I talk a lot. And it's like, oh, I talk too much. I ask too many questions. When I'm in class, I give too much random commentary, you know. And I just kept noticing in like, the words that I use to describe myself, and like, it's just pointed out to me is that, like, it's like Josie, like the words too much accompany a lot of things about you. You're too expressive, you feel too many emotions, you know. And it was interesting because it's like, it's, it's the kind of belief that I think is is easy to have in a lot of settings, especially like academic settings. Sometimes, I think you're persuaded, like, not to discuss as much in technical classes sometimes, or even in, like, discussion based classes, like, there's always, like, a time, you know, like, limit that we're trying to reach. So it's like, oh, we don't want anyone to say too much. Like, I think, especially like, this is something that you experience just a little bit more as, like a woman as well, because, you know, like, you're, there's all this stuff that tells you you're not supposed to take up too much physical space and, oh my God, you're not supposed to be too confident about things. You're supposed to be, you know, like, humble

Veronika Becher 51:34
about your um, yeah, humble about everything. But same time still being confident. And then you're like, where is the middle ground? Like, if I pretend to be like, confident in the space, people are like, Oh no, she's too full of herself. And then if I'm not confident, people like, she's so insecure, I would never be around her. And you're just sitting there like, well, most my insecurities come because of like, stem from these comments that I'm getting from people that I've never I feel like so many insecurities just come from people telling us things, and then we just take up so personal, like, everything that we hear that we we can't, you know, I mean, like we can't handle it, and then it's just a traumatic experience for the rest of our life. No, I feel you. Yeah, no,

Josie Houchard 52:19
exactly. It's like, you're either intimidating, you're bossy or you're insecure, and you don't stand up for yourself. And it's like, where's the middle ground in this? And like, it's the kind of thing that, gosh, I just it's hard, because you're like, I've got all these different things. And when someone says, like, comments about something, I feel like a lot of the times, if it's like, you know, it might even be like two or three people in my life has told me this, but if it's something that I already am a little self conscious about, I only need one or two objective or one of true things that I can view as, like, a quote, unquote, objective fact. Because, like, an outside person told me, Oh, I do talk a lot and like, if it's something that, like, I hear and I'm already worried about, like, I don't need a whole lot of evidence for me to just believe that that's the truth. You know, it's just interesting. I feel like it's easy to sort of get these kind of things a little stacked against you sometimes, and it's definitely hard to with expectations, because it's like, if, in general, as a person, I experience, I also experience the world through talking. It's something I feel like I haven't had a thought if I can't say it out loud, because otherwise it gets sort of stuck in my head. And there's so many things happening,

Veronika Becher 53:31
and then you overthink exactly solution happens. And overthinking is like the worst of the worst, because people think, oh, but you could have just came to the solution by yourself. I'm like, No, I can't, because I feel like, by saying it out loud, I can actually, like, properly get my thoughts in one specific like order so I can understand what is happening. And I if I keep it inside, like, if I sometimes journaling helps. Like, I've been getting into journaling more, especially if I get really emotional, something happens, and I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, I'm super anxious about this. I'm doubtful about this, my abilities to do this and that, and it's just in the moment, and I write it down, I realize, Oh, I'd have to say it out loud to it. I need to take a step back. Yeah,

Josie Houchard 54:17
yeah, I know. And sometimes, like, even when it's like, there's not people around or like, I don't like, maybe this is something that I do want to just like, marinate with myself a little bit. I say stuff out loud to myself all the time. I'll just be like, because it's like, that's how I can get it from like a concept of an idea to like an actual something that's happening. You know what? I mean? I'm like, Oh, okay. Like, now that I've said it, I can, it's like, I can see it, whereas before, I just have an impression of what it is, of what my feeling is, and what is happening. You know, no, I know. People have told me, someone, my roommate, Amelia, for a trip that I took to New York, she told me she was like, Josie. She was like, you narrate your world. And I was like, What do you mean? I don't narrate my world. And then, like, five minutes later, I catch myself. Just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just, you know, reading billboards, just like, talking about my thoughts, and I'm like, wow, I am a narrator. And it's interesting, because it's like, sometimes when you have things like this, especially if it's like, it's not, you know, of course, anything like crazy and extreme that we're talking about. But like, if, let's say, maybe you talk a little bit more than the average person about certain things or something like that. Like, I know, I ask questions more than an average person in some of my classes, you know. And like, it's easy to be like, Oh my God, that's a lot, you know. Like, like, like, and have people be like, Oh, wow. Like, like, objective fact, like, you talk, you know? And it's like, yeah. And then it's so easy for that to spend a like, oh my god, I'm way too much. And then, like you were talking about earlier, like, you pull back, and then next thing, you know, everyone's like, what? What's up, what's happening, you know, it's, it's, it's hard, because it's like, Oh, I gotta find the balance between, like, you know, making sure that I, like, make room for others, which I feel like has come with age. Like, you know, it's something I feel like it can happen pretty easily, you know, especially because if you're talking a lot, oftentimes you ask a lot of questions, so you listen a lot, hopefully, you know,

Veronika Becher 56:07
even if it doesn't look like that, that's something that I feel like. It's so funny how people like, Oh, you're really talkative. You never listen to me. I'm like, I actually do listen to you, because I remember really well, but it's almost really creepy about everything you've told me these past week or weeks. I like, I keep it in my head, and I think about it to, like, tell you something that I feel like I'm more a deep talker. It's such an issue sometimes being here because people, mostly, they don't like engaging in deep talks and having all these conversations and about their feelings and how they actually are as human beings. And I'm like, well, but that's exactly what I'm interested in. I want to know who you are. I don't want to know only the surface level one that is, these are the classes I'm taking. This is how the class is going, even though sometimes it's nice to like, I get it, but not every single day, every single time. And I think taking up space is so, so difficult, and also the expectations of people, what an extrovert should look like when I am really happy and I love and I'm like, just myself, I feel sometimes I can't uphold this image, even though I genuinely want to be this person. And then people like, well, you introverted, you're you should behave this way. You're extroverted, right? And you're like, well, there are days that I don't want to smile and there are days that I don't want to talk, and there are days that I just want to listen to people, and it's nothing, nothing bad comes with that. But even as an extrovert person, I don't always get space in conversations. And I feel like, well, you expect me to give you space, but you don't give me space either. So it's, it's a challenge,

Josie Houchard 57:47
exactly. I think it's something too that like, as much as like, I think sometimes, and this is something that I see oftentimes with people our age, if you know, I know it's a human problem, but like, sometimes I think people get so caught up and like, their experience is something that they also don't think about yours, you know. So it's like they ask for space, or they ask for something in a conversation without realizing that, like you need just, just exactly the same too, you know, or maybe it looks slightly different for you, but like you have a need there as well. Um, and it's something that I think is easy for people to get so caught up in, like, what they need that they don't think about, you know, the flip side of that coin and what you need. And that's something, gosh, with the extra version, I completely understand that. Because oftentimes, like, my personality, I'd say, is, like, it's like, pretty bubbly and like, I love talking to people, and I'm also often, like, very excited about things, but it's interesting because it's like, because that's how I am most the time. That's often what people come to, like, expect about it. Um, and so, like, whenever I'm not like that, like, it's like, oh, some days I just like, feel like being quiet, you know. And like, granted, that's not me, usually. But like, sometimes I feel like being quiet. Sometimes I'm like, I want to be alone. I want to just go into a cafe and I just want to work on something, like, I want to be productive today. And like, those are things. It's like, Josie will never say no to a conversation in favor of doing something, you know, productive. You know, it's like, the kind of thing that people come to not expect. But it's like, weird, because it's like, I just want to be exactly how I need to be today. You know, being an extrovert can mean so many different things and, like, it's the kind of thing that, no excuse me for someone. Cough. No, I am. Recently, I was, I was looking into it, and I was like, Man, I get, I get very socially anxious. And it's, it's something very interesting, because it's like, I love talking to people. I talk to so many different types of people in an average day. Um, and I was like, There's no way that I could have like, social anxiety. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm the most extroverted person I know. No, it's completely not true. Like, you can be extroverted to like, like, have x. Averted tendencies and still be, you know, anxious about, like what this one person said, or like how others perceive you in a way that sometimes it doesn't show at all, you know, and sometimes it's just like under the surface, but it's so there, you know,

Veronika Becher 1:00:16
I get insecure about what people think if I really care about what they think, and especially dealing with people that are more introverted and they don't really express themselves much, I overthink. I overthink each step of it like I'm like, Oh, is this person actually liking me? Is this person okay with me talking so much there? You know, if you don't tell me directly, if you don't have a direct communication style, it's so difficult for me to understand the other person sometimes, because I'm like, Oh, I don't know, like, I think too much into it how the person would react. And group settings make me anxious too. It's a thing. It really is a thing. Um, and it was like, if, like, I love people, but same time they terrify me. It goes both ways. I think the only reason why I can talk to strangers is because of my curiosity towards the stranger, and also it's just this thing of I woke up to a stranger and think later about what I just did, and then the other thing that I feel like I just wanted to drop as like a thought, a lot of people perceive me younger because I am bubly and talkative, like a lot of people are like, I think you're like, a freshman, and I'm like, I'm a senior. And it's always funny, because I don't really look that old. I think some people would, I don't know. I don't think that it makes a big difference between being 20 and 22 like, Look wise. Sometimes some people just look older, and they're like, Oh, you're probably younger, because you're so active and you talk to everyone you want to get to know everyone. I'm like, No, this is a trait. I don't know why people have a perception of the older you get, the less you talk to strangers, the less you are interactive, the more you keep to yourself. I think that's so sad. I

Josie Houchard 1:01:56
know, I know you don't want to just get old and like, shrivel up and like, you know, seriously, like,

Veronika Becher 1:02:01
like, I get it when it takes a lot of effort and energy to get to know people again and again and again, but then I truly enjoy it. Like, I think it brings me joy hearing people's story, collecting different people. I'm collecting these. I was like, I'm like, collecting Pokemon cards, but getting to know different people from different places. And I think this podcast is also a reason why I'm here. Like, I love talking to people having deep conversations. Yeah, just talking because I want to come. And there's in maybe my last like point, we did, like, a cliftonstrengths test, and they're like, so many, like, billions combinations. And the funny thing is, my top cliftonstrength test is like, result is communication. And when I saw it, I was like, it is what it is. And it's really interesting. It's like, talking, expressing yourself, everything that is connected with that. And my other like my German friend. She was like, Well, if you really want to, no, I'm thinking, Oh, you see me when I talk about people. She was like, Well, if you find the right people around you, they will appreciate you for who you are, and they wouldn't mind you taking up space, because a lot of times, people are scared to take up space because of their own insecurities, and they project it towards you because you're a closer person to tell how they feel, even though, deep down, it's not always your fault for being expressive and extroverted in the way you are, but rather, you're just you might be not compatible with this one person, or You may be too talkative, or maybe this person just is insecure about their own ability of being a good conversationalist, even though I think active listening is so important as a talker. Yeah,

Josie Houchard 1:03:51
I think it's definitely, I completely agree with that, like the right people will give you the space you need. I know oftentimes I felt like I was too much and like, sometimes I feel like this, like, like, in, like, romantic relationships, like, Oh, my God, not too much. As in, like, clinging necessarily, but just like, oh, like, I'm just, like, very expressive, and like, you know, like, I'm very, like, enthusiastic and a lot of things. And like, I sort of like, like, I don't consider myself necessarily high energy, because I'm pretty good with the flow. But like, I'm very, like, high excitement a lot of the times. And I was like, oh, Josie, like, you're just too much. You know what I mean? Like, you're gonna scare this person away. And it's interesting, because one of my friends looked at me and he was like, Josie, it's like, when you find the right part, like, like, the right people who want to be around you are gonna love you for exactly the things that you worry about. You know what I mean? It's like, they're gonna love all your everythingness, and it's not gonna be too much, you know, and there will be space for that. And, like, it's the kind of thing it's hard to accept sometimes too, because I think sometimes it's easy to just be like, well, maybe I'm the problem. You know what I mean? Like, if someone tells me something and they're like, I'm not really, like. In this arrangement, it's like, Yes, I am the problem. I'm so sorry, you know, to this friend, but like, oftentimes I think it is really just like a maybe, like, my faults and your faults aren't as compatible, you know, like, maybe, like, we just don't work too well together, because it's the kind of thing that like the right person likes you for taking up space. And I think the biggest gift you can give to anybody, like, the biggest gift you can give to someone is being authentic, you know, because it's like, how can this person ask for anything more than for you to be yourself so that they can judge their relationship, judge whether they want to be with you? Blah, blah, blah, by like, honesty, you know? So it's like, if like, Who you are is this person who takes up this or who talks this amount, then like, the best thing you can be is like that, you know what I mean? Because then that gives everyone around you to love you for exactly who you are. Or be like, I don't think we can be maybe close friends like, that's okay. There are some people who it's like, I know that they're like, I love Josie, but we could not be close friends. And like, as much as sometimes it's like, Oh, dang, that's sort of intense. It's like, that's completely fine. Like, thank you for giving me, like, an honest, I don't know, approach to this relationship, because, like, you know who I am. I know who you are. And like, the best thing we can do is have like, the relationship that works for us, instead of building a relationship on, Oh, I like you, but I think, you know, instead of you talking like, how much you actually do, like, in my mind, it's like you could talk less, and it's like, no, I'm not gonna, like, love you for a possible version of you. You know, I don't know, this is sort of an abstract idea, so it might not make that much sense, but it's like, I think the best thing we can give is being exactly who we are to someone, and then like, that puts the ball in their court, you know. And if that doesn't match up, then, like, it sucks sometimes, but like, that's okay, because the right human beings who should be around you and who want to be around you will love those things about you. Things

Veronika Becher 1:07:00
are really good, good mic drop moment. I try, I try. No, it was really good. You literally just, like, answered all my last questions that I had, seriously. Yeah, I think, like, just finding the right people, what is quite a challenge. I think you shouldn't give up and keep on looking for people that will appreciate you, and I'm not scared, because I actually scare people. I really do. And even sometimes being a woman is complicated in that regard, because people don't expect to be the girl who walks up to a guy and it's like, hey, I want your number. I would love to hang out with you, not a romantic way, but everyone just takes it in this type of way. So I'm like, I just find you cool, like, I would love to hang out with you. So people get scared away, and they're like, no, no. That's like, strange. Why would she like approach me? But I think that's a beauty, like, the right people would probably say yes, and that's okay. And, you know, I really enjoyed this talk, actually. And I know we, we could talk for hours, and probably will record another episode. That's like, for sure. Do you have anything like last, I know you had already a mic drop moment? Is there anything you would love to like leave with the listeners? Any like, advice or a thought,

Josie Houchard 1:08:21
I think I'd say just like, in all my life, experience with all the like, amazing people I've gotten to meet, just like, Don't compromise yourself, you know what? I mean? Like, you can think a lot of things about, like, a lot of relationships with people, but at the end of the day, there's only one human being that you're gonna be with your entire life, and that's you, you know. So like, the most, the best thing you can do for everyone else, the best thing you can do for you is just like honoring yourself by like being that, you know, like, Don't compromise who you are, because, like, you're worth it, you know, so be whatever, whatever that means.

Veronika Becher 1:08:52
Thank you so much for being on the podcast. That was a nice, nice and and I really appreciate you finding time and getting through my really, you know, busy schedule, but I appreciate. I hope everyone liked this episode like I said, Be yourself. Be truly yourself. Extrovert, introvert, whoever you are. Great zone person in between, because we all are gray zones and trust into the process of finding the right people around you. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, bye, bye, bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai