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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, chef Ricky, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your one hundred and eightieth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a Cuban cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rate. We smoke the new high dollar flagship cigar from Cuba.
Gizmo:Bam and I discuss our latest trip to Havana, and listeners prompt a revisit to the selling cigars to friends debate, all among a variety of other things for the next three hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, enjoy as we pair both eight and 11 years aged from Santiago De Cuba with the Cohiba fifty eight. The brand new Legito number seven from Cuba on the pod tonight. It's called the Cohiba Bajique 58 boys, and it's a 58 ring gauge cigar by seven inches long. And I feel tonight, boys, that we are celebrating the fact that baseball is back in season.
Gizmo:Correct.
Chef Ricky:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:The Yankees are doing well. Well. The Mets are doing okay.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:And we have a baseball bat in our hands.
Bam Bam:We do.
Rooster:It feels more like a 72 ring gauge.
Gizmo:It feels massive.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. This is not only the largest cigar I've smoked on this pod, it's the largest cigar I've ever smoked. This thing is massive.
Rooster:Think some dental work
Bam Bam:to Yeah. I think we would all say the same.
Gizmo:Yeah. This is ridiculous. I think the narrative that we don't smoke big ring gauge cigars on this podcast has officially been eliminated.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Shattered that.
Gizmo:Yeah. This has been shattered early in 2025 here.
Rooster:We're going back to petite
Bam Bam:colonized slacks. What do you think of the wrapper? What's your take on it?
Gizmo:I mean, looks okay to me. It's a little bit rougher than I would have expected.
Bam Bam:For a cigar of this caliber.
Gizmo:For a cigar of this caliber and price. We'll talk about that in a little bit, the price on it.
Bam Bam:The color's nice.
Gizmo:It looks good.
Bam Bam:But it's pretty It's not even veiny. It's just there's unevenness. There's a touch of sheen, which I love, but it could be better.
Gizmo:The wrapper's definitely oily.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. And it's got a pigtail.
Gizmo:And it has a pigtail of course, like all the Bihiques do.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:Rooster's very happy about that.
Chef Ricky:Is this what my man bun looks like on my head? It does. Such a massive head with a
Bam Bam:small ball that commentary before. So correct. You have a bijique head. A bijique 58?
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing. See what we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. So we are very, very lucky, and we'll tell the story in a little bit, but we're very lucky to be one of the first outlets in the world to review the brand new Bahique fifty eight.
Bam Bam:That's right. Pretty cool tonight. Draw is wide open for
Gizmo:me. My draw is perfect. Very happy with this.
Pagoda:Yep.
Chef Ricky:Getting oatmeal.
Bam Bam:Can I get
Gizmo:a little salt, which I'm liking?
Bam Bam:Yeah, think oatmeal is pretty accurate. Pretty mild, not much on the cold draw for me.
Gizmo:Tastes good. Yeah. Tastes a little fresh, of course.
Bam Bam:Tastes good.
Gizmo:Tastes good. A little fresh.
Pagoda:What are getting Pagoda? Well, that's a big ring gauge. Even for me, because I wish
Bam Bam:you good luck. Yeah. This is
Gizmo:this is gonna be something tonight. This is definitely gonna be a challenge.
Senator:I would just love to know who's ever sat there smoking a cigar and said, you know, I wish this were 58 ring gauge. Mean, this is ridiculous.
Gizmo:Maybe next year for Cohiba's sixtieth, they'll do a 60 ring gauge. They can bump it up a little more.
Bam Bam:I know we're gonna light it in a moment, but there's definitely a market for cigars of this size. Right? Isn't it primarily Asia, parts of other-
Gizmo:And people in America love big hammers of cigars, man.
Rooster:Yeah, yeah,
Gizmo:yeah. I mean, think we're outliers in a way.
Pagoda:Yeah, because six year engagement, a lot of people have that, right?
Gizmo:Gordo's, six by 60,
Bam Bam:It's just uncomfortable I just say
Senator:this because, yeah, we say this and sure, there's some data, I guess, to support this, I've just still not met these people, and we travel, we've been in lounges all over the world, I've yet to encounter someone who on a regular basis smokes a 58 or a 60 ring gauge. Correct. Plenty of guys who smoke Toros, fifty four, even 55.
Chef Ricky:It's cause you don't belong to a biker club.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm going to go to Shet. Thank you for that. I'll be in Shanghai next week. Oh, perfect.
Bam Bam:I'll take a look for you guys. Excellent. If you
Chef Ricky:were a member of a bike club, you encounter these cigars all the time. Remember my uncle I was telling you guys about and this is all he prefers is smoke are cigars of this size. For him it's
Bam Bam:he's on a bike riding at 70 miles an hour?
Chef Ricky:No, no, But for him it's all about bang for the buck. Mean Great. Value.
Gizmo:It's a value play.
Senator:At least they know their market is $700 cigar for the biker club. Correct.
Rooster:Well, this is a big bang.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's light this thing.
Bam Bam:For your buck.
Gizmo:The brand new Cohiba Bihike 58, and it's a 58 ring gauge cigar, of course, by seven inches long, an absolute massive cigar, the biggest cigar we've ever smoked on this podcast for sure. And we are very, very lucky. The cigar was announced in March at the Habanos Festival in Cuba, and we are one of the first people to be smoking this cigar and reviewing it tonight.
Bam Bam:And just, folks, give us about ten minutes to light this thing, and we'll be on our way.
Gizmo:We'll be right back. So this is actually the second Bajika 58 that Bam and I have had. Bam and I both had one in Cuba. So we'll see how this one does tonight.
Bam Bam:I'll reserve my commentary. I gotta
Gizmo:say mine has lit pretty effortlessly.
Bam Bam:I'm almost there. So I have a pet peeve of completely toasting the foot that it's totally red. I don't like cool spots. Agree with you 100% on that one. Yeah, you got to do
Gizmo:a complete light. Especially on something like this.
Chef Ricky:This size,
Gizmo:yeah. Because it's from one side to the other, it's like walking across the football field.
Bam Bam:This is pretty good off the Pretty good off light. I'm actually surprised.
Gizmo:Yeah. This is
Bam Bam:nice. Wow. Gizmo seasoning does wonders for a cigar.
Rooster:Does it taste like a bajika on the light, though? No. It tastes a little different, doesn't it?
Gizmo:I would say it's it's in the family of of what I know of bajika 54, especially. I'm not getting the the twanginess that I get. There's a little bit of a bite that I get on a Bijicay 54 that's not like pepper. It just has, like
Rooster:It's the Medio unique Medio Tiempo.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm assuming it's from the Medio Tiempo, but it's a unique flavor on the tongue. I'm not getting that here, but this is in the family for me of of what I would expect right now from Bahike.
Bam Bam:I have no complaints right now.
Senator:I think it's in the family, but to Rooster's point, I'm not sure that if you were to do this blind that, like, the first thing would scream at you, Behike.
Gizmo:I agree with you on that.
Bam Bam:It's true.
Gizmo:Yeah. Certainly being biased by knowing what it is.
Bam Bam:Check the aroma on the foot. It's delicious.
Gizmo:Yeah. The foot aroma is really nice.
Bam Bam:I'm getting a slight anise on it. Very good. Spot on. Although my eyes are watering now. I took a little too much in.
Bam Bam:So what do you do with these cigars?
Pagoda:Do you smoke them faster? Because if you smoke them really slow, you could be here for hours.
Gizmo:Yeah. We might be here for four hours tonight, Pagoda.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think there's always a risk of canoeing a larger cigar like
Rooster:this if you go too quickly. Well, it also depends how packed it is. I mean, this feels doesn't feel light, but doesn't feel overly heavy either.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's a good point.
Senator:No. It's not tightly packed. I mean, mine, honestly, I didn't cut a ton off.
Gizmo:I didn't either. Same.
Senator:And, honestly, there was, like, filler falling out even with this small cut I made.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Well, the the cigar didn't fit through the cutter, which is a great tip.
Gizmo:I'm very happy with this on the light. Me too. I have no complaints. It's pleasant, little earthiness. You know, we've only had these.
Gizmo:I've only had these a couple weeks since we got back from Cuba. We're gonna talk about our trip. So I've had these for about two weeks. I had them for a week in the top area of my humidor right around 62 r h, and then I've had them dry boxing in my very dry home, my my basement office for another week. So these have really been only conditioning for a little over two weeks.
Bam Bam:What are guys getting?
Senator:Are you getting, like, butter?
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:Almost like a butteriness about the smoke when it's in your mouth.
Bam Bam:I'm get I was about to I'm I'm getting butter at the very tail end on the finish for me. On the front, it's like a little bit of like a nougat or biscuit with earthiness and some minerality.
Senator:For me, the smoke just coats your It
Gizmo:does. It does. And I'm getting a little salt too. We talked about that salted butter in the Portagos Linea Maestra Rito, which was also a big cigar. That's here too.
Gizmo:I'm getting that salted butter thing. Not as pronounced. It's not like movie theater popcorn here, like we talked about on that, but definitely getting a
Bam Bam:little butter. This is a completely different experience than what we had in Cuba. That cigar was rough to smoke. I actually was ready to put it down halfway through, but I didn't.
Rooster:Was definitely wet. The smoke from the foot when you smell it has a lot of strength, but not the cigar.
Gizmo:That's true. Yeah, like if you really take it a lot, you feel it flaring your nostril. Yeah.
Chef Ricky:Agreed. It's almost like by the time it makes its way through all this tobacco up to the cap and then to your mouth it chills out, you know? It cools down and I mean for me I'm getting everything you guys are saying salted butter, I'm also getting some dried fruit or that sweet nougat. I'm really enjoying this. I think it's amazing.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You know, this just goes to show you gotta you gotta bring your cigars down. You can't smoke anything that's over 62 in something like this. You can't.
Gizmo:And think about how much tobacco is in this thing and adding or not taking away excess moisture. How much, you know, percent moisture content of the actual cigar is being held in there by those tobacco leaves. Think about how much this can swing with a lot of humidity in it. Yeah. Like from a weight standpoint.
Rooster:Yeah. It must have felt heavier when you smoked it too.
Gizmo:It definitely did.
Bam Bam:It did. It definitely did. It was okay. It was okay. It wasn't great.
Bam Bam:This is starting off great. Did you dry box these?
Chef Ricky:I did for about a week. Oh, you left?
Gizmo:Yeah. I left these off for about a week knowing how big they were. I was gonna cut the caps off, but I figured that wouldn't go over well in the room here.
Bam Bam:How many weeks have we been back? Three weeks? Two weeks? So what did you do the other two weeks of these?
Gizmo:I did say it a minute ago.
Bam Bam:Oh, I'm sorry.
Gizmo:You guys didn't listen to me.
Rooster:Yeah. Were. Will say Put it on this top shelf.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Rooster:Top shelf. 62.
Gizmo:Top shelf for a week. Mhmm. Dry box for
Bam Bam:a week. Okay.
Gizmo:And so, you know, two weeks, two and a half weeks.
Bam Bam:Good protocol.
Chef Ricky:I'm gonna send a listener email next week asking the question all over again just to piss you off.
Gizmo:Pagoda, what do you think so far?
Pagoda:Yeah. For me, I I got the buttery saltiness, and that's really it. Rest all has been mild. I thought it was a bit of cedar initially in the beginning of the thing when I lit it up. Yeah, but it's, you know, just very pleasant and pretty mild, though, on the mild side too.
Bam Bam:It's a mild cigar. I
Senator:think it's super mild. Honestly, I really hope this builds. This is way too mild for my palate. I
Bam Bam:think it's going to build.
Rooster:That's why the smoke on the food is much heavier.
Bam Bam:It is and the retro is nice. But if it stays like this, it'll have to be complex. It'll have to be velvety and remain that way for it to be interesting.
Gizmo:I'm just hoping that that's an intentional part of the journey here. Start a little mild and work your way up. You know, that I'm hoping that to be the case.
Bam Bam:This is
Gizmo:an odyssey. Yeah. But we'll see. But like you said, Senator, I think if it maintains this level of mild all the way through, it's going to get pretty boring.
Pagoda:Yeah. The one thing I do like about it is, you know, you're holding the smoke output, everything is up to expectation. You know, sometimes you get these larger Ring Gate cigars, and they don't ride up to the expectation. Think it's been very, very easy to smoke, I think. You know, the flow through is great, and the smoke output's fantastic.
Senator:How's the draw on your cigar pagoda?
Pagoda:It's great. Don't look at my cut, please.
Bam Bam:Look at his cut. All 58 ring gauge he's got fully cut and exposed. I mean, Jesus. How did you
Pagoda:No wonder. No wonder.
Gizmo:He's got an abundance of smoke.
Bam Bam:Difference on this. Oh, wow. Look at that. Oh, he shoved that in there.
Gizmo:He took a flat cut.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Pagoda:I had to I had to go around it.
Gizmo:I took a very little bit off
Bam Bam:Me too.
Gizmo:Of mine.
Rooster:Mine looks like a Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. So does mine.
Pagoda:That's impressive because I would never ever do that for a larger ringgit cigar. I'd always be worried. I don't know. Well,
Rooster:The problem is you can always cut more.
Pagoda:You can always cut more. Can't no. Fair enough.
Rooster:Yeah. It's like cooking. You can always add more salt.
Bam Bam:Correct. Measure twice, cut once.
Pagoda:The way I look at it is I can still see the edges curving in, so I'm good.
Rooster:On the cigar? Yeah.
Senator:Right
Gizmo:there. Right there. So like we said, boys, this cigar was announced at the Habanos Festival this year, just a few weeks ago in March in Havana. This cigar is the fourth in the Baejike series following the '52, '50 '4, and '56. All of those were launched in 02/2010.
Gizmo:This year is the fifteenth anniversary of Baejike. And as we can see here on the bands, I actually have one of each with the bands on them. They're double banded. The main band is a unique special Cohiba bihike band with the number 15 on it, and then there is a foot band unique to each of the four cigars. Mhmm.
Gizmo:So this cigar has a Baquique fifty eight foot band, 56, 50 four, 50 two. And what I'm holding in my hand is effectively the gift that was given to the gala dinner attendees in Havana without the fancy box. So I have one of each of these with the new band. And this band, I'm told, is only going to be on for this year. So next year, they're gonna return to a more normal looking bihike band, but I believe that they'll probably be updating all of the boxes ongoing with the new NFC chip technology.
Gizmo:So trying to limit counterfeiting and whatnot with that NFC chip.
Chef Ricky:So Giz, what would you say the value of all the cigars in that bag are?
Gizmo:Those four cigars, the 52, 50 four, 50 six, 50 eight, as they sit right there are worth about $2,500
Chef Ricky:Do you still not like the ziplock when it even when it hosts 2,500 worth
Bam Bam:of cigars? I do not like this.
Gizmo:Well, this is how I brought it home from Cuba. Correct. Because that was the only way to do it. No. And I haven't taken them out.
Gizmo:So that's why I've traveled
Senator:with This is when your indestructible I'm shocked
Chef Ricky:they fit there.
Senator:This is when your indestructible Home Depot case would have
Bam Bam:come to end the true.
Gizmo:But you know, space is limited going to Havana. Yeah.
Bam Bam:And that bright orange box that will notify everybody. I have a curiosity.
Gizmo:Yes.
Bam Bam:So we are looking at the toothiness of this wrapper. If you could take that out and compare it to what you're smoking. I'm just curious what it looks like. If it's a better quality, if it's smoother.
Gizmo:No. It's about the same. Right. Yeah. It's about the same.
Gizmo:Okay. You know, I would think to you know, and we talked to Daniil about this. We'll talk about this a little bit, Bam. But, you know, Daniil, the production manager of Cohiba, who was so kind to get us these cigars for the review. These actually did come out of El Legito.
Gizmo:These were rolled at the same time the factory gift cigars were rolled direct from El Legito. These were not secondhand cigars. I did not purchase these online. I got these handed to me by the production manager of Cohiba. Bam was there.
Gizmo:He can witness that.
Bam Bam:I corroborate the story.
Gizmo:And he asked us to review these sooner rather than later because he wanted to hear what we thought. So we have to first thank our friend Danilo for his kindness and generosity. Yes, sir. In sharing these, what seems like awesome cigars so far with us tonight. So like we said, boys, the cigars, the bijiques were launched in 02/2010.
Gizmo:This is the second bijique we're doing on the podcast. Actually, it's the first one we're rating because we did the Bahike fifty four with Danilo early last year in 2024. We did not rate it because we were sitting with him. So in legend, according to Habanos and Cigar Aficionado, Bahike was the name of a doctor or chieftain of the Tainos, the indigenous tribe of Cuba. The original Bahike, which was the celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the Cohiba brand in 02/2010 was the first time the Bahike name had been used on a cigar.
Gizmo:Habanos made only a hundred humidors, each containing 40 cigars of the original bihike. And as of 02/2011 this is 02/2011, these numbers, not 2025, '2 thousand '11. The humidors sold with those original bihiques containing 40 cigars between 65 and 73,000 or more than $1,500 a cigar. Now I would imagine that those prices would probably be close to 7,500 or 10,000 per cigar. So at the time, Jorge Luis Fernandez Maique was the president of Habanos and is credited with launching Baique in 02/2010.
Gizmo:And, of course, as we know, you know, Baique has been the creme de la creme of the creme de la creme, which is Cohiba. You know, that's the highest level, you know, global brand for Habanos SA, certainly the most famous cigar brand in the world. Bihike is the top of that line, and this is the first time in fifteen years that there's been a new entrant into the line of bijike. So very happy
Bam Bam:to be smoking these tonight. Well, it's performing very well.
Rooster:Yeah. Mean, the construction is spot on. I mean, no issues. The burn is good. Good smoke output.
Rooster:Flavors are there. I'm not quite getting the bajique oomph that you usually get because of the Medio Tiempo so far, unless that might change. Maybe. But usually you get a little bit of a strength from the Bejiques that you don't get on the Sea Glows, the other series, you get that Medio Tiempo that gives it that.
Bam Bam:Yeah. So we had the Bejique 54 after this and that was much more flavorful. It was definitely there right from the beginning. I mean,
Gizmo:is there less Medio Do you know anything about that? Did you talk about the blending? He didn't want to say too much about the blend of the cigars, of course, but I do know that there is a sufficient amount apparently of Medio Tempo in this cigar, but like I said, maybe it's staggered so that we have a little bit of a journey here. I'm not sure.
Rooster:And is the wrapper the same throughout the Bajique line,
Gizmo:I would Yes. Of course, the challenge is getting wrapper that is big enough to Sure. You know, make a seven inch cigar.
Bam Bam:I said, why don't we cut it up and see what all
Pagoda:the leaves are there? I'm just
Rooster:gonna slice one open. Yeah. Take one out of that bag.
Gizmo:Yeah. So let's talk about the price of these cigar boys. Obviously, we didn't pay for these again. We were handed these by Danilo for review. These cigars are going to be launched in May at $700 apiece.
Gizmo:Yikes. Box of 10 MSRP is going to be 7,000 US dollars.
Bam Bam:There's really nothing to say.
Chef Ricky:If this goes on split wise, I'm gonna have to start an OnlyFans.
Bam Bam:You would do well.
Gizmo:Do you know how many they're producing? How many boxes would be introduced? They yeah. That hasn't been said. I'm not sure how many boxes of Baehike 58 they're gonna make, but I I have to imagine it's gonna be in pretty limited quantity.
Rooster:Would I would say $7,000 for a box. I mean, who can afford these? I mean, there's gotta be such a handful of people who could really wanna pay. Even if you could afford it, who would really wanna
Gizmo:pay this? The
Bam Bam:Amir of Dubai. What are
Senator:what are you talking about? The market's been doing great.
Bam Bam:Correct. The oligarchs of the former Soviet Don't
Rooster:start with the market.
Bam Bam:I would leave. Okay.
Chef Ricky:All of a sudden cigars as an investment is looking like a genius move.
Gizmo:No, I, you know, again, you know, we've talked it seems like this is a recurring theme for us here is talking about these new cigar launches that continue to creep up well now into the triple digits, touching almost quadruple digits. I'm sure that's where this is going to be in two or three years. You know, some of the other cigars we've talked about, some of those Davidoffs that are crazy priced, etcetera, but
Senator:This is beyond absurd, though.
Gizmo:It is. It's worse.
Senator:We've been talking about price increases, all that. This is a whole other stratosphere Correct. Of ridiculousness.
Bam Bam:Well, they're trying to catch up to Gurkha, you know? You know, the most expensive cigar. There's something satisfying about the velvetiness of the smoke. I I kind of like that. Although the flavor, you know,
Chef Ricky:I feel like mine's starting to pick up a little bit. It's starting to get a little zesty, if that makes any kind of sense. Not peppery, but
Bam Bam:Olive oil and garlic?
Chef Ricky:A little bit. No, but I think it's important to point out, you mentioned the velvety of the velvety ness of the smoke. When we mentioned butter and the flavor profile of butter, I think it's important that for me, it's it's cold butter. You know, cold butter has a different flavor on the palate than warm, the drawn butter or warm butter. It's thicker, creamier, obviously, and just kind of more lactic feeling on the palate.
Chef Ricky:That's what the smoke is feeling like.
Bam Bam:I don't disagree with that.
Rooster:Would you say it's grass fed?
Chef Ricky:I'm thinking more Irish Irish butter. A little bit of
Rooster:a funkiness. I'm serious about that. Kerry Gold butter has that funkiness.
Chef Ricky:Cultured butters are great for that too.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Beautiful bright white ash. Mhmm. Really nice.
Gizmo:I'll be honest. I'm sensing in the room you guys aren't loving the flavor. I'm fairly happy with this at this moment. Like, I'm I'm good with it right now.
Bam Bam:I think fairly happy is pretty accurate. Was
Senator:the part I guess we're talking about that was super, super buttery?
Gizmo:The Linea Maestra Rito.
Pagoda:The
Senator:new blue So honestly, blind. It blows it blows the sour. No. No. I didn't wanna go there.
Senator:Yeah. I just mean on the first, you know, inch of
Gizmo:the cigar,
Senator:they're I think very similar. Mhmm. Like, honestly, the first inch of that cigar and the first inch of this, I'm blind. The buttery notes. Yes.
Senator:I wouldn't be able to distinguish the two. Is so like, my I literally feel like I've just eaten buttered popcorn or something super buttery, and it's just lingering on my palate. And the flavor is very pleasant. I I there's nothing that I'm overly upset about, but kind of like when that Partagas started, we were all a little confused, and we said this didn't seem as much like Partagas DNA. With this, this doesn't seem as much like the jicke DNA.
Bam Bam:Exactly what we're going through right now.
Senator:Yeah. We're a little confused. The parallels are super similar for me. I'm just praying that like that cigar, it builds and picks up because if the next inch of this is going to remain like this, I'm going to get bored.
Gizmo:That's the problem.
Rooster:The problem is that we are not smoking this blind, so when you pick up a bajique of this size, you're expecting the bajique DNA, which is what I'm not getting from this so far. I mean, that could change. The buttery flavor, all of that stuff is there. But that usually does not correspond with the bejiques. Bejiques it's a different animal.
Gizmo:As of right now, you know, this far into it, an inch, inch and a half, whatever we want to call it.
Bam Bam:About an inch.
Gizmo:Like to me, at this point in the bejique 54, I'm generally completely satisfied.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it's pleasant.
Gizmo:You know, I'm not necessarily searching for more when I have a great one.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Right? Here, I'm still wanting a little more.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:And for $700
Bam Bam:But there's no complaint. You know, it's smooth.
Senator:Sorry though, my only complaint is like the flavor profile on this at this point, don't think is very complex. No.
Bam Bam:Not at
Senator:all. I think none of us can pick out more than maybe three distinct notes we're getting.
Bam Bam:Right. But it's not off putting in any way. It's performing nicely.
Senator:But for $700, I mean.
Bam Bam:Oh, dude. You know what's interesting? I was starting a canoe and it's course correcting as I rotate it and take draws in different positions. It's pretty neat. I think it's a sign of a well made cigar.
Bam Bam:Beautiful ash.
Rooster:I mean, I'm sure it's I mean, how many rollers really roll a bajique? There's not
Gizmo:a lot of pairs of hands rolling bajique 58. Daniela told me it's very, very few. Yeah. So even on that, you know, information he gave me, the the amount of boxes they're gonna be producing every year of this cigar, it's gonna be very limited.
Bam Bam:You know, I'm impressed with the rate of smoke of Pagoda. Look how nice and mannered he is. Slow.
Pagoda:Very Yeah, know, was deciding should I go a little faster
Bam Bam:or slow? No. Impressed. Look at roosters ahead of all of us, which is a shock.
Gizmo:Wow, look at that.
Pagoda:You must really love it.
Bam Bam:What is going on in the room? Can you play the Twilight Zone theme?
Senator:It's a testament to the construction though. I mean, everyone's looks like it's burning perfectly. It's nice. It's nice.
Rooster:At what point do we ash?
Bam Bam:Big question. When Pagoda wears it?
Gizmo:Pagoda's always the the tell on that one. Correct.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah. Really? Coming from Giz.
Bam Bam:Good retort. I don't
Gizmo:know what you're talking about there, Peyono.
Pagoda:You know, I always hesitate to say it, but I don't know, somewhere over there, in the aroma, I was like, I was getting like red cayenne pepper kind of aroma. It's like, it's counterintuitive to what I'm
Rooster:tasting. Are
Gizmo:you saying the smell at the burn line? The burn line.
Bam Bam:It's a little peppery. Around the burn
Gizmo:line, Yeah, yeah. I like it too. Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. But not on your palate at all.
Pagoda:No. Not in my palate. No. Oh, just
Gizmo:got a lot of pepper.
Rooster:It hits your nose.
Pagoda:Yeah. Yeah. That's what
Rooster:I was saying before. Like, the aroma on the foot is has some strength.
Bam Bam:It's a spot on comment.
Gizmo:Yeah. Actually. I'm actually getting white pepper. Yeah. On the on the foot.
Bam Bam:It's it's nice. I I won't discern pepper to pepper, but it's good.
Senator:That's what chef is for.
Pagoda:Chef. Ladies.
Gizmo:Chef, chime in here. What kind of pepper are getting?
Chef Ricky:Agree with I agree with Pagoda on the cayenne pepper.
Gizmo:Cayenne pepper.
Chef Ricky:There's a little sweetness to the pepper.
Rooster:Let me ask you a question. How many of you guys actually have white pepper at home?
Chef Ricky:No one. I do not but I've cooked with white pepper often.
Rooster:Because there's a lot of white sauces that you would use. Or in
Chef Ricky:professional settings you're encouraged to use white pepper when seasoning fish.
Bam Bam:Really?
Chef Ricky:Right. To not leave black specks.
Bam Bam:And have
Rooster:veloute sauce.
Chef Ricky:Or veloute. Yeah. Cool.
Gizmo:So boys, let's talk about some new Cuban cigar releases. We always highlight the new stuff coming out. I believe we talked about this first one already, the Ramon Ionis Absolutos, which is the Addision Limitada from 2024. And it comes in this really awesome looking green box. I think we looked at this already
Bam Bam:We did.
Gizmo:With the wood grain but it's launching in a couple weeks in Switzerland and it looks like the price on it is going to be about $52 a cigar or about a thousand bucks for a box of 20.
Bam Bam:It's a bargain.
Gizmo:It's a bargain compared to the one we have in our hand. There's no question about that. And then I'm curious what you think about these two. These ones we haven't talked about. Number one, the Juan Lopez Cincuenta y Cuatro is going on sale in Spain this week, I believe.
Gizmo:I love this. It's a 54 ring gauge cigar by four and three quarters inches long. Same Vitola as the Magnum 54.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:And the MSRP on this is $24.
Rooster:There you go.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Like to
Rooster:see that.
Bam Bam:Oh, yes. Love that.
Gizmo:I love to see a new release from Juan Lopez even though it has the additional the regional band on.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Sorry. Especially with dimensions like that for that market. That's cool.
Gizmo:Yeah. So I was happy to see that. And then finally for tonight here, there is a a second Juan Lopez, Edision Regionale for the Nordic region. It's called the Valkyria and it's a 52 ring gauge by five and a half for Busto Extra with a price range of around 30 to $35. K.
Gizmo:So that's also not too bad. Yeah. And so I guess that's a little bit shorter than the QD 52 that we did on the pod. 52 ring gauge by five and a half. So I like seeing cigars coming out of Habanos, especially with this monster we have in our hand right now at a at a reasonable price point.
Gizmo:You know, we may need to do a few regionals. Yeah. We've done a few, but we'll bring some more in.
Bam Bam:We should.
Gizmo:The problem now is getting them banned.
Bam Bam:I know.
Gizmo:I know. And we talked about two weeks ago. Yeah. It's it's been a challenge with cigars of Habano c o h and iHavana stopping shipping. Gotten a lot of emails from listeners asking how they can break through that and get Brian and iHav to ship here.
Gizmo:And unfortunately
Bam Bam:You can't.
Gizmo:Old customers, new customers, customers that spend a ton of money, the the shop is closed
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:For Cuban cigars.
Senator:I get it. I I just I wish that they would make it at the buyer's risk. What do they have to lose if that's the case?
Gizmo:Yeah. At this point,
Senator:I mean, I I will happily take the risk because You need your cigars.
Bam Bam:I don't know that I've ever gotten
Senator:a box confiscated through them.
Bam Bam:I haven't either. I'd take the risk for one or two at a time.
Senator:And even if I lost one box, honestly, it'd be worth it to just get all the other stuff that I want.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Pagoda:If it gets caught, don't you lose your global entry there?
Gizmo:If you have global entry and it's under your name and it comes to your address, have everything has to line up and you will lose your global entry. Yeah. You have to be smart about that. So boys, it's time to try our first of two pairings tonight. We specifically brought in two because it's such a big cigar.
Gizmo:Bam had a great suggestion. We were debating between doing the eight years and the eleven years of the Ron Santiago de Cuba, the rum, which we love so very much. And we're gonna start with the Ocho, the eight years aged, and then we're gonna do the eleven in a little bit, but we're gonna rate Yeah. Both of them tonight here on the pod.
Bam Bam:Cheers. Cheers.
Gizmo:Cheers, gentlemen. Good to see you all. Good Cuban evening.
Bam Bam:Jesus Christ. This isn't mouthwash, Ben. I'm following chef's lead.
Gizmo:I do love the eight. Yeah? I really like that. Yeah. Well It's a little hotter than Havana seven.
Gizmo:Yeah. No question about that.
Bam Bam:I'm not getting that. It's smooth, but it's pretty from the point of no. Yeah. It's not it doesn't have much flavor for me. Really?
Bam Bam:It's it's smooth. It's pretty easy to drink. I'm not getting any heat, but it doesn't have
Senator:I think I think with this, you need to take a few sips. Yeah. Because I cheated. I had one early, and I got a lot of heat and not that much flavor, and so I was immediately kind of put off by it. But the more I'm drinking it, what I'm really starting to appreciate, and it addresses a complaint that I have with the 11 that we'll get to.
Senator:It's got a drier finish. It does. And there's like a walnut, like, nuttiness about the flavor profile that I actually really like.
Bam Bam:But isn't that different than what you remember this to be when we first had it?
Senator:I've never had the eight. I only had the 11 and the 12.
Bam Bam:Oh, wow. The 20. Had the 20.
Senator:And the 20.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I'm I'm liking this a lot. I don't mind the heat either. There is a little bit of heat for me, but I I don't mind it because I feel like it's enhancing the flavor, the flavors that are coming or trying to come through. And because the cigar is leaning mild even still, I'm appreciating the fact that the rum's delivering a little bit more.
Chef Ricky:And on the retrohale, coconut. Holy shit. Did I get coconut?
Bam Bam:You mean on a finish of the
Chef Ricky:On the finish of the rum, then retrohaling the cigar after taking a draw of it. That was pretty fun.
Gizmo:That was pretty fun.
Rooster:So you can use it for pina coladas. Mhmm.
Pagoda:Yeah. It tastes like Malibu. Does that rum even exist anymore? I remember when I was
Senator:Yeah. Chef's not wrong. You get it, and even faintly on the nose.
Bam Bam:Faintly on the retro. Yeah. It's there. Yeah. Your palate will adjust.
Chef Ricky:I love how I need senators for you know, to verify before a man could agree.
Bam Bam:That happens from time to time. What
Gizmo:do you think about the eight years aged Santiago with the Bijike 58 that we have in our hand? How is this is appearing for you right now? It's okay. Is it helping? Is it hurting?
Gizmo:Is it just kinda coexisting?
Bam Bam:I think it's coexisting. I
Gizmo:think it's enriching it. Yeah.
Chef Ricky:I think it helps a little bit. I think the heat on the rum helped the cigar just a little bit, just kicking up a bit.
Gizmo:I feel like the cigar is popping a little bit more for me after having taken a sip.
Chef Ricky:I agree.
Bam Bam:I'm pretty indifferent right now. It's not giving me much.
Senator:I can't tell whether with this cigar because it's so mild and that butter note and like I'm not getting much beyond that. Mhmm. I can't tell whether something drier like this or sweeter, which I'll be excited when we try the 11, is a better pairing for this cigar. Because there's not like in addition to that kind of buttery finish, it's not like I can say I'm getting a lot of, like, fruit or, like, you know, floral notes or I'm getting, you know, nuttiness and some other more savory notes. I'm not really getting much else other than salt and butter and tobacco.
Senator:It's just kinda odd. It's just really even keeled.
Bam Bam:Straightforward?
Senator:Yeah. Very straightforward.
Rooster:Yeah. There is like a toasted tobacco note, and maybe a little bit of a nuttiness, like a walnut.
Bam Bam:You mean when you like tobacco?
Rooster:The cigar?
Bam Bam:Yeah, I hope so.
Rooster:Like a walnut
Bam Bam:you get.
Chef Ricky:Yeah, we're all just a bunch of assholes today.
Rooster:I'm used to it. Oh, are you? I'm surprised how mild the cigar is.
Senator:Me too. Yeah. Agree. Even hasn't changed yet.
Bam Bam:Pagoda, I am so impressed with the rate of smoke. That's impressive. You're very patient tonight.
Pagoda:Yeah. Yeah. I've evolved.
Bam Bam:Life. Life.
Chef Ricky:I get a on the rum, I'm getting, like, a toasted vanilla tea cookie.
Gizmo:I like the
Bam Bam:Eight. Yeah. You know, on the finish, there's a little bit of vanilla. It's nice. But for me, it's very faint.
Bam Bam:I'm not, again, still not getting much on it. I can't say that I don't like it. You know, it's pleasant to drink.
Senator:What's the price point on the Eight?
Gizmo:I got it for $29.
Senator:So that's more than Havana Seven. Yeah.
Bam Bam:A lot more.
Gizmo:Wow. Yeah. Got it in the Havana Airport on the way out.
Senator:Bam didn't break that one?
Bam Bam:No. I did not. Man, that was awful.
Gizmo:We'll tell that story in a little bit too. We're gonna get to a lot of stuff. So like I said, keen listeners out there will remember that we did the Santiago De Cuba Twenty Years, a long time ago, actually, on episode 76, over a hundred episodes ago. That was one of the best rums we ever did. So we wanted to do some of the other entrants from Santiago to Cuba tonight.
Senator:I hope we didn't rate that so we can do that again.
Gizmo:We can just keep doing it.
Bam Bam:I thought we gave it a 10.
Gizmo:We did. It was a good one. Yeah. It was a good one. So boys, Bam and I went to Cuba.
Gizmo:Correct. So we haven't talked about this yet. We were waiting for a Cuban episode, and obviously with the BK58, we have a lot of smoking to do here. So Bam and I went with Lizard Henrito a couple weeks ago. We did not go for the festival.
Gizmo:We went after the festival at the March, and we learned as we were flying in on the plane that once again, the entire island
Bam Bam:Was out of power.
Gizmo:Was completely out of power.
Rooster:We knew it the night before. We just didn't wanna say anything. Yeah.
Gizmo:I I appreciated these guys telling us while we were flying in. Apparently, it happened the night before and none of us had noticed.
Bam Bam:They wanna check my MacGyver skills. That's what that's what they were doing.
Gizmo:Exactly. Correct.
Senator:This is a theme.
Bam Bam:It
Senator:is. The last time we found out on the plane on the way
Bam Bam:out Yeah.
Gizmo:The pagoda was stuck there without With
Bam Bam:a rum in his hand and a roof. Abundance.
Pagoda:Time to get to Havana Seven. Thank God.
Gizmo:For Havana 7.
Pagoda:I mean, that would've been a really long
Bam Bam:night. Correct.
Chef Ricky:I mean,
Rooster:at that point when you guys landed and you knew the power was out on the island. Yeah. Was there a little bit of thought about just getting on the next plane and go back?
Bam Bam:Honestly,
Gizmo:no. No. Because on the plane, I had found a privately owned hotel.
Bam Bam:And that's the only reason why had a generator. Nice.
Gizmo:And by the time we landed, I had reserved rooms for each of the three of us at these private hotels, one in Vedado. Correct. Near the home where we stay normally, right on the Malecon. And they had a generator. So we were able to stay at a privately owned hotel.
Rooster:And that's
Gizmo:a newer hotel, right? It is. Yeah. Barely new. Yeah.
Gizmo:It's called La Distancia and it's the sister hotel to another one called the Klaxon.
Bam Bam:Yes.
Gizmo:Which we had seen the last time when we were walking around Havana the
Bam Bam:last time we were there. So I took
Gizmo:a mental note, I'm glad I did. Yeah. Because I found their WhatsApp and I was messaging them while we were on the plane. But, yeah, we flew in to what ended up being two, two and a half day total blackout. It
Bam Bam:our trip though.
Gizmo:It saved the trip.
Bam Bam:Completely saved our trip.
Gizmo:Yeah. Were very
Bam Bam:were lucky.
Gizmo:That would have been tough.
Bam Bam:Yeah. We had ice cold rooms, great meals, great cigars. Havana Club was flowing all day long on the property. It was great.
Gizmo:Lucky. It kind of limited our ability to do other things for the first two days. So it kind of cut back some of the activities that we were trying to do, some of the people we were trying to see.
Bam Bam:We got a little busy. It was good.
Rooster:Yeah, we just picked up So what about lounges and restaurants were closed?
Gizmo:Everything was closed. Wow. Yeah, except if you were staying at the hotel, the restaurant at the hotel was able to serve us, so we had food, But, you know, all the restaurants that we normally go to were completely closed because they had no power. Yeah. Which was unfortunate because, again, we lost a couple days of seeing, you know, people that we know and
Bam Bam:Sure. Looking at places we like It's great option to have. The unpredictability of power, having a place like that to go to, that in a Claxton, it's
Rooster:I mean, imagine with the power Power on. Power goes out for a few days and the restaurants probably there's so much food spoilage
Bam Bam:that they to be thrown away. For sure. You would hope it's thrown away.
Gizmo:Yeah. Point senator.
Bam Bam:No FDA there.
Rooster:Just make a little rope up your hair, baby.
Pagoda:Yeah. It's all well done.
Chef Ricky:Aged. As long as you keep it hot. Yeah. Cook it and keep it hot for two days.
Gizmo:So, Bam, when you landed, when we got into Vedado, obviously, we're in a power outage. But as we came out of the power outage
Bam Bam:Yep.
Gizmo:What was your overall impression of Havana even versus six months ago when we were last there? What what did you what was your takeaway this time?
Bam Bam:I'll be blunt. It was like I was there a week ago, like prior to that trip. Nothing changed. People were walking about, surviving, doing what they do, resilient.
Senator:That stadium I'm sure was still being painted.
Bam Bam:Yes, almost finished by the way. Two bays left. I counted. Two bays. Two bays.
Bam Bam:For the listener, this has taken two years to paint Yeah, this is two and a half years. Yeah, I think there are 20 bays in this massive concrete, I guess, pre Soviet Union structure, and there's two bays left to paint. Looks great.
Gizmo:I think they're painting it with a toothbrush.
Bam Bam:They are.
Gizmo:I don't understand how it's taken them this long.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Honestly, it felt like nothing's changed.
Pagoda:Was there grass in the field now?
Bam Bam:No. It was. But there are a lot of kids playing soccer though.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's amazing you go to Havana, and we were talking about, you know, of course I ask BAM all these questions about infrastructure and all these other things, and it's like to think about how much money it would take to, you know, quote unquote normalize or bring the infrastructure and the facilities and the buildings up to
Bam Bam:It's almost impossible to calculate, you know? You have to take it like per city block and then multiply it over an area and then do neighborhood by neighborhood.
Senator:Well, is if BAM's doing the work, it's impossible to
Gizmo:count the There's not enough zeros.
Bam Bam:Gotta call those accountants in.
Rooster:BAM's probably like 1,500,000,000,000.0 per block.
Gizmo:He can afford the bajiques if he does that. Correct. Yeah. So we did have a nice time once the power came back on. So we landed on Saturday, and power came back on.
Gizmo:It was kinda normalized by Monday afternoon, I would say. So we did lose Monday as far as being able to visit some folks that we wanted to see, some factories and whatnot, our friends. We punted that to later in the day and then we got into our groove. We ended up visiting our favorite restaurants, of course. We went to Cinco Centidos, Five Centidos.
Bam Bam:Yes sir.
Gizmo:We went to Cha Cha Cha. Yep. We went to Maradentro a couple times for breakfast and lunch.
Rooster:Oh
Gizmo:yeah. And then we ate at the hotel which had really good food.
Bam Bam:It did and we had breakfast at the Claxton one day.
Gizmo:That's correct.
Bam Bam:That was delicious.
Gizmo:Yeah, was really good too.
Bam Bam:Very good.
Gizmo:You know, as far as our reporting goes and and what we normally would do, we were actually attempting to go to the beach one day, but we ended up cutting that out because of the power concerns and everything else.
Bam Bam:And Giz forgot to bring his wife beater, so that didn't work out.
Senator:You you mean
Bam Bam:he didn't
Senator:have his tie dye
Gizmo:I always have my tank.
Bam Bam:So he wears that at night. I I didn't wear it
Gizmo:at all this trip, by
Bam Bam:the way. Yes. You did. I saw you one morning. Yeah.
Bam Bam:I would have thought used out of your room in the morning with that thing on.
Chef Ricky:I would've thought you just had a hoodie with cut off sleeves or a beach or
Senator:something. Yeah. Belichick style.
Gizmo:That's smart. I should do that.
Rooster:I should do that. So was the whole island out?
Gizmo:Yeah. It was the identical situation to what Pagoda experienced in October. It was identical. The entire island was out for
Bam Bam:two and a half But look, if he had access to this property, it would have been a blip on the radar. Really, didn't feel it at all.
Pagoda:That's awesome.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It was great.
Gizmo:We were very lucky
Bam Bam:to Creepy though.
Gizmo:Make that connection.
Bam Bam:You walk off the property and you're in pitch black darkness.
Gizmo:And there's also an element of guilt too because, you know, we were talking about it. We're sitting there smoking these cigars and we're drinking rum and eating all this food. And you look out on this this the city block.
Bam Bam:It's it's
Gizmo:And he
Bam Bam:was like, I didn't feel any guilt. I felt the guilt for
Gizmo:all of us.
Bam Bam:Bam's like, What's guilt? Pass me the lighter.
Gizmo:Kids, you
Bam Bam:have any fuel for your lighter? Correct.
Gizmo:No, you're looking around outside in the darkness and this massive generator's running and we're the only facility in viewable distance that has power, that was a little bit of a bummer because you know that there's a lot of people and a lot of children and everything else that are suffering.
Bam Bam:Also a detail, there wasn't any security at the hotel. It did feel safe. I wasn't at all nervous. You kind of look out from where you're sitting though, you couldn't see a damn thing. A little creepy.
Pagoda:No, but it must have been great to just have an alternative to be able to go and
Bam Bam:Yeah, and still enjoy yourself and be comfortable, you know, yeah, it doesn't feel that great.
Rooster:Yeah. Bam doesn't like darkness.
Bam Bam:I do not.
Senator:Oh, he does not. Especially when there are animals No
Bam Bam:critters, no darkness.
Senator:A squirrel would make Bam jump in the dark.
Bam Bam:In the dark? Correct.
Gizmo:Especially if the shadow makes it look big, Yes.
Bam Bam:Or rustling in the leaves. I don't like that.
Pagoda:Rooster this summer, you know, we already have a few things planned, don't we?
Bam Bam:I'm not sitting on your deck. Hell no. It's like National Geographic back there. I'm not doing it.
Senator:Question. When you guys moved to the Casa we normally stay at, were there blackouts for periods of time during the day like we normally have?
Gizmo:We only had two blackouts
Bam Bam:One or two.
Gizmo:During the rest of the week. Very brief. And one was in the morning for about three hours, and one was in the afternoon for about three hours on different days. Okay, so
Senator:they're still doing They're still
Gizmo:doing the rolling rocking. Correct, Yeah, I think that's gonna continue to go on. I actually spoke to a friend who lives in Havana last week that we all know, And she was saying this is O'Dallas, the lectora at La Corona factory. She was saying that this past weekend, they pretty much had no power all Sunday. Yeah.
Gizmo:So, you know, she was without power at home, you know, on her day off from work. It's an unfortunate situation happening there. Wish there was
Bam Bam:something that could be done. Of course.
Rooster:Were the factories also shut down?
Gizmo:Yeah. So when there's no power, the factory is shut down, and I don't know if it's a product of just there being no light, but also the childcare component because the school's closed, that the children are home from school when there's no power. So and then, of course, they can't wash their clothes, so the kids don't have clean clothes to go to school. So it's like this domino effect that happens. So they keep them home from they keep them home from work as well.
Gizmo:So the factories were definitely closed for a couple days. But I think they resumed operation on Monday somewhat. Maybe some rollers went
Pagoda:in. Mhmm.
Gizmo:And then Tuesday, they were back to normal.
Rooster:Did the rest
Gizmo:of the island get the power back also,
Rooster:or were were they out?
Gizmo:I think Havana definitely got it first, the rest were definitely out for a few more days.
Senator:I mean, the reality is for the rest of the island, even when power is on in Havana, they go without power for days at a time. Like Havana having these rolling blackouts of a few hours during the day, other parts further out. Mean, you talk to a lot of the people there, they'll go entire days without power, then they'll get some power, whole other day without power. Mean, it's crazy.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It makes sense. The grid is probably more robust in the city. Right? And as it goes out to the provinces, it's probably not as not as robust.
Senator:I don't even think it's that. I think it's just a allotment. Choosing what to They're prioritizing where the tourists are.
Gizmo:Exactly.
Senator:And they're saying screw you to the rest of the island.
Bam Bam:That's the Yeah. That's true.
Gizmo:So, you know, I I just wonder how, you know, we're coming up on a a very hot summer, of course, in Cuba. Mhmm. You know, June, July, August, September, how difficult it's going to be there without without electricity. So I would caution any listener out there who is planning to travel to Cuba to I would have I I just would avoid going in the summer. That that's my
Bam Bam:True.
Gizmo:Feeling. I I I think that that's going to be a very uncomfortable circumstance if you end up there without power, without a generator situation. God only knows what the fuel situation is at some of these places. You know, even even the hotel we were staying at, we talked to the owner who was Italian, believe. Right, Ben?
Bam Bam:He was Italian. His wife was Cuban. They were saying Very
Gizmo:nice guy. They were saying they only had a day or two of fuel at any given time. That's right. They did not have some stockpile of fuel sitting around. You know, they're they're constantly having to
Bam Bam:And a very old generator, so it wasn't efficient. And that, you know, sounded like a tractor. It was a
Gizmo:little rough.
Rooster:So I guess the fuel situation still exists. I mean, there's not enough fuel So
Bam Bam:he said he'd be on lines with everyone else buying fuel for his two hotels.
Gizmo:And they have to pay people to wait online for twenty four hours at a time. Know, it's a really difficult situation. Unreal. Yeah. So boys, we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Cohiba Behike 58, the biggest cigar we've ever done on this podcast.
Gizmo:What's everybody thinking right now as we get into the second third
Bam Bam:on
Gizmo:this cigar?
Bam Bam:Has it changed for anyone?
Rooster:Not really. No. It's still the same.
Bam Bam:Still pleasant, but it hasn't changed.
Gizmo:I'm enjoying the cigar. It hasn't changed. And I'm hoping it does, but as of right now, it's kind of plateaued for me.
Chef Ricky:Because I've seen you touch it up a couple times.
Gizmo:Just because I've been talking, and every time I talk it kind of goes out. I see. So I'm trying to be more diligent.
Senator:We've got a wrapper issue here.
Bam Bam:I see that, yeah.
Pagoda:Pagodas. Yeah, it started opening up, but you know, it hasn't flowered yet, so let's see.
Bam Bam:That's when you'll get the floral note. Oh, the finally. I think the performance overall is excellent.
Senator:Oh yeah, the construction's excellent.
Bam Bam:I have
Senator:no complaints I'm just bummed that the rum is providing much more flavor than
Gizmo:the cigar is.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Senator:And that shouldn't be the case.
Gizmo:So Bam, the food, you know, in Cuba, the places that we went, everything was kind of status quo.
Bam Bam:Outstanding, actually.
Gizmo:We went to the lounges we like to go to. We kind of stayed in our normal routine. Correct. Because of the circumstances, we didn't really venture from our normal routine, so we went to the Parque Central several times.
Bam Bam:Mhmm. Now I was the only one Parque that smoked a cigar that day. I was disappointed in you and Henrico.
Gizmo:That's true. I did have a couple that morning.
Pagoda:Yeah. But that's
Bam Bam:all there is.
Pagoda:It's it's a couple a day.
Bam Bam:Well, if you don't have a cigar in your hand
Gizmo:It was very hot in the Parquet Central. There was no air conditioning. So I was feeling uncomfortable. Yeah.
Bam Bam:My AI image is about to talk. Okay? Here's the AI talking now. My 300
Gizmo:pound He's embraced this AI image. I hope everybody has noticed.
Bam Bam:AI image was not sweating too much in that parquet. It was very nice.
Gizmo:You did pretty good.
Bam Bam:I did pretty good.
Gizmo:You did pretty good. Yeah. So we we hung out at the parquet for that day, and when the power was up. That was I think Sunday or Monday.
Bam Bam:I think Sunday.
Gizmo:And then we went back later when everything was back to normal, it was as it usually was.
Pagoda:It was excellent.
Gizmo:Normal service, which was fantastic.
Bam Bam:They're always great there to us. Yeah. Home away from home.
Pagoda:Now did they let you in into Parquet when the electricity was out?
Gizmo:We had a little bit of an issue.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. I had a call on my friend who's at the concierge there to help us, but we did try to go in there and they weren't letting us in
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:Until he showed up and said, oh, these are my friends. Let them in, you know, on that first day. But once the power came back, they did Yeah. They did let us go in.
Pagoda:Yeah. Because that's exactly what we experienced.
Rooster:Did you guys buy any cigars?
Gizmo:Not one. Yeah. I didn't buy any either.
Bam Bam:Henrito Henrito bought a few. Just a couple.
Gizmo:Yeah. He bought a box of h up and half coronas. Yep. And he bought
Bam Bam:D fours?
Gizmo:Partigas D fours.
Bam Bam:At a great price by
Rooster:the way.
Gizmo:Yeah. Think they were
Bam Bam:Surprisingly good. 21. 20 1 or 22. Yeah. Shockingly good.
Gizmo:Yeah, that was a Cohiba atmosphere.
Senator:Yeah. I love where I had two boxes. He just bought a few.
Pagoda:Yeah, I know. A few outside of the four or five. Yeah. Like a couple of boxes here.
Bam Bam:Yeah, was a bundle. Just 50 cigars.
Gizmo:Yeah. So we had a nice time at the humidor, then we went to the Floridita. Yes. We had a couple daiquiris over there.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:And that was really the extent of our journeys this time as far as shops and Yep. We did go to La Corona. We visited O'Dallas there. Yes. Saw our friend there.
Bam Bam:We saw Abuela.
Gizmo:Yes, we saw Abuela.
Bam Bam:She's incredible.
Gizmo:She's awesome. And we were then very fortunate to spend some time with Danilo, which is how we ended up smoking the Bahike 58 for the first time. So of course, anybody who remembers Danilo is the production manager of Cohiba, works at El Legito. He's in charge of that factory over there. The production's components of that, and he's been a good friend of ours for a long time.
Gizmo:We did an interview with him last January. Yeah. And he was very kind to give us all Bijike 50 eight's.
Bam Bam:Was the highlight home. Highlight of the trip.
Gizmo:It was awesome.
Rooster:That was a very special evening at his house, Even when we went.
Bam Bam:Of course, of course. I can't tell. I spent more time with his dad for the first time.
Rooster:He's such
Pagoda:a sweet guy. And more of your age group as well. I'm just kidding. Hey, just came out.
Bam Bam:That's okay. I wanna see what your genetics are thinking about for you.
Gizmo:No. Just kidding.
Bam Bam:Take a picture of this, buddy. Okay? This is just standing right here. Right here. But he he was such a It was so much fun to talk to him.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It was difficult. I don't speak Spanish, but you know, he's intelligent. We were able to communicate for a while. It was fantastic.
Chef Ricky:What were you guys talking about?
Bam Bam:Yeah, his guitars. Music. Music, how much he loves music. Danilo's wife sat with us. They were having dinner at the table.
Bam Bam:Henrico, Danilo, Giz. I didn't have dinner that night. I wasn't feeling that great. But you know, smoking my cigar, hanging out with the two of them. It was a pleasant evening.
Bam Bam:Very, very nice.
Gizmo:Yeah, so we had a great time and then we were fortunate actually, Danilo came back to our house for the first time on the rooftop a couple nights later.
Bam Bam:Oh, so very cool.
Gizmo:Actually on my birthday. Yeah. Came over came over with his wife.
Bam Bam:On his motorcycle?
Gizmo:Yeah, hung out on the roof and smoked some more cigars and we had a great conversation. We learned a lot about his history and his story, which was pretty amazing. Through the military? Yeah, where he's been through some of those amazing stories. He really blew us away.
Gizmo:It was really, really a great night, and then of course he was so kind, you know, we don't ask for cigars, but he was so kind to bring these, and he said, the Lounge Lizards need to review the Bihike 58. So he brought us enough for the review that night and that's why we're here tonight. So we have to send a special thanks to him for making tonight possible for us.
Chef Ricky:I'm in. Thank you, Danilo.
Bam Bam:I gave him a Bolivar gold medal that night. Yeah. I think he enjoyed it.
Gizmo:He did? Yeah.
Bam Bam:Very nice.
Rooster:Why would you not give him a New World?
Gizmo:I gave him a we we gave him bunch of New Worlds.
Pagoda:Gave him I don't know.
Senator:Fairness, there are some Cuban cigars that he hasn't had.
Bam Bam:Don't think he's had that.
Senator:When I was there with Lizard Henrito earlier last year, I had brought a 2011 Upman Anajados, and he had said and I said, you know, I'm not sure if you've had this before. He goes, it's funny you bring this to me. He goes, because I haven't had this cigar, but I've heard it's really great. And he was thrilled to have it. So, like, you'd be surprised.
Senator:You know, there are some Yeah.
Bam Bam:Sure.
Senator:I mean, there's you know, the catalog is bigger than I think we give it credit for. It's like with limitatas and regionals and the Anajados line, there there's really so much to work through. So even someone who smokes god knows how many cigars Danilo does, it's impossible to try it all.
Gizmo:But don't forget too, he what he's focused on smoking is what his factory is producing.
Bam Bam:He's about 10 bijiques a day.
Gizmo:Yeah. He's smoking a lot of bijique, a lot of Cohiba, a lot of, you know, a lot of stuff that they're making at the Legito factory. That's what he's focused on, even at home. Mhmm. You know, he's still smoking for work.
Gizmo:So to bring him something that's aged, obviously he hasn't been in the program for a long time. He's only been there five or six years. So to bring him something that's aged, something that was made at the Partagas factory, which that Bolivar was, You know, the upman you brought him, some of the other stuff that we've given him, you know, those are new experiences even though he works in the industry because he's kind of in his silo Mhmm. You know, at El Legito smoking his stuff. What does he think about New World tobacco?
Gizmo:I gave him this you're gonna love this. I gave him he want he wanted something different, so I gave him a Fabrica five Trinity Robusto. And I gave one to his father as well, and he smoked it together. And he was totally blown away Yeah. To the point where I literally took a picture and I sent
Bam Bam:it to
Gizmo:Rob Isla saying, Danilo is sitting here enjoying loving your cigar because, you know, it's a totally different flavor
Bam Bam:experience. Absolutely.
Gizmo:He was totally blown away and asked him, next time we come, he said, please bring me more of this.
Bam Bam:Yep. Yep.
Gizmo:Trinity Robusto.
Rooster:He loved it. I mean, it
Gizmo:was fun.
Rooster:What did he think about the flavor profile of that cigar? Did he think it was more Cuban esque?
Gizmo:He was shocked at how Cuban esque it was, but he obviously picked up on some of the stronger elements of it, Nicaraguan that's in there, etcetera. But I think it was a very unique flavor profile for him. Right. You know? I also gave him a Padron sixtieth to try that.
Gizmo:Lizard Henrito, I believe gave him an eightieth from Padron. I gave him a couple Davidoffs. Just some other stuff that he could try Yeah. You know, as well. But we smoked the Fabrica five together.
Bam Bam:Yep. And he really loved that.
Senator:So I'm curious what he thinks of that Padron sixtieth. That's a full bodied cigar.
Rooster:I bet his father would like that. Yeah. Because I remember giving him a fifty year, the Padron, the hammer.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Rooster:And I think he smoked it right there and he loved
Gizmo:it. Wow. I told him, make sure you have a big meal before you smoke it.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:This Padron sixtieth. Maybe a couple of bajiques and then this.
Bam Bam:I remember Alexander way back when when we gave him an exquisite bowl. Yeah. He looked a little pale.
Senator:Yeah. He he thought it was really strong.
Gizmo:That's right. He smoked that at a laguarita. Right?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. I handed that to him right on the spot, he lit it right
Gizmo:Yeah. So Alex, by the way, Alexander that Bam and and Senator are referencing was the former roller Master roller. The master roller, the top roller at the La Corona factory who is now actually in The United States. He's been in The US for about three or four years. So, you know, he's he's living in the Midwest now.
Gizmo:Mhmm. So a very, very talented roller. But, yeah, gave him a you guys gave him a Padron Exclusivo, and he was a little floored. That was after a steak dinner too.
Senator:Yeah.
Gizmo:We had a real serious meal that night.
Bam Bam:Oh yeah.
Gizmo:As far as Cuba bam, I think that kind of sums up our trip.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it was a
Gizmo:Power outage at the start. And then trying to get out of that airport was a little bit of a hellish nightmare.
Bam Bam:A little dicey.
Gizmo:So we showed up at the airport on Friday. So we were there for six days. Right? So we showed up in the airport Friday morning, flight leaving at 10:30. We were at the airport eight, checked our bags, everything.
Gizmo:And of course, right after we get through TSA, I rolled through there with empty carry on bag
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:To start loading up at the duty free. So I made my transaction. Bam was behind me in line, and I was already done with my transaction. And we're standing Lizard Henrico and I are standing outside the duty free watching Bam Bam roll over I was so excited. Five or six bottles
Bam Bam:I had three.
Gizmo:Of of
Bam Bam:had Let the exaggeration begin.
Gizmo:Like a little kid on a little kid on Christmas.
Pagoda:So he's hugging these bottles.
Gizmo:Hugging them. Like, he's got them wrapped up in his arms.
Bam Bam:I had two in my left hand, and I had the third one here. I was very excited because this was my first rum purchase, like of substantial quantity.
Gizmo:He's only been to Cuba about six,
Senator:rum purchase.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Like, you know, I really haven't brought much back from Cuba other than cigars. So this is really my first big rum heist. So I'm walking up to the
Senator:So your hands were trembling.
Bam Bam:I was excited. And I tried to move my bag with the other hand that's got the bottle. So I went like this and it just elegantly fell out of my arm. Elegantly. And it smashed all over the fucking floor.
Gizmo:By the way, this is a liter bottle.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It was a big one.
Gizmo:All over the floor of the duty free glass, rum, and bam is just standing there.
Bam Bam:Was frozen. Devastating. And then I looked at the cashier. I looked at the floor again. I didn't know what to do.
Gizmo:So We snapped the photo.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You did. Of course. And sent
Gizmo:it to the group.
Chef Ricky:Nobody shouted, bam bam. So
Rooster:did you go back and buy another one to
Bam Bam:complete your purchase? I did not. I just took the two, and I had to pay for the one that was destroyed.
Gizmo:Sure. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I did that.
Rooster:But why wouldn't you go back and get another one?
Bam Bam:Well, I had a good amount in my
Gizmo:You did buy the Santiago 11.
Bam Bam:I bought I did go back and get that.
Gizmo:Okay. So
Bam Bam:he did he did get that. But I had a good amount in my Did they
Rooster:have Santiago 20 available at the airport?
Bam Bam:I didn't see it.
Gizmo:I didn't see that there. I did see it at some of the LCDH stores. I saw it at
Bam Bam:I think they had the eight and eleven in the airport. Yeah. They had them at the countertops, only two.
Gizmo:Yeah. Not sure if they had the 20 there,
Bam Bam:but I don't think so.
Gizmo:Yeah, so we went back about that. And honestly, that bam bam smashing the liter bottle on the floor kind of set up the rest of our day at that airport. Of course,
Bam Bam:that was your highlight of
Gizmo:the day. It dude, it was the highlight compared to what happened after that.
Senator:Oh, yeah. Sounds like he cursed you guys after It
Bam Bam:was a disaster.
Senator:That was shall not spill and waste rum in Havana.
Bam Bam:That's holy water, man. That's right. K.
Rooster:Just when you smash that bottle, that's when that bird flew into the fuselage.
Bam Bam:That's exactly what happened. Exactly. Same time. That's correct. So we The butterfly effect.
Gizmo:We sit down and we're waiting for our flight and all of a sudden they start punting the takeoff time back.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Twenty minutes here, twenty minutes there, twenty minutes here and no information. This is American Airlines. And we're trying to get information. They don't speak great English. Obviously, they use that as a mechanism to just, you know, I don't have any information.
Gizmo:No. No. No. We ended up, and I'm short I'm I'm making the story a little shorter, Bam. You could fill in some of the details.
Gizmo:But through this whole punting of this thing, they had a mechanic fly in from Miami on a different flight to check out the fact that a bird had struck one of the earlier flights.
Bam Bam:And of course, the mechanic wasn't qualified to, I guess, sign off on whatever maintenance was So that plane was disabled and was left.
Gizmo:Yeah. So then there were two planes, which turned into ours then. Two planes that didn't take off. So now two air you know, airplane full of people in the airport trying to get out of Havana. And American Airlines isn't being communicative.
Gizmo:So we're not being able to switch to another flight, another airline because they keep saying it's happening, it's happening, it's happening, it's happening.
Bam Bam:And the airport's full of people sitting around.
Gizmo:Yeah. And there's limited food, limited access to water and everything else there.
Bam Bam:And we're there for at that point, eleven hours. Yeah.
Gizmo:Wow. We were there for almost twelve hours. Yeah. Was awful. It was a nightmare.
Rooster:Couldn't you go to the lounge
Gizmo:at airport? The problem with the lounge rooster is because they kept punting the flight every twenty minutes inside the lounge, you don't have access to information.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:So if they did end up taking off, I was afraid that we would have actually missed the flight because we're sitting sitting in this detached lounge smoking cigars.
Rooster:Yeah. There's no lizard lizard Henry stand outside while the
Gizmo:guys are doing smoking cigars.
Bam Bam:He is pledging, so he should
Gizmo:have that. Absolutely.
Bam Bam:He could have done that.
Gizmo:So we ended up because of American Airlines, we were at the airport just over eleven hours.
Senator:Not because of American because Bam broke the bottle. Correct.
Rooster:If it was United, you'd be there like another two days.
Gizmo:Yeah. We ended up getting on the flight. And this is at what, Bam? Eight fifteen?
Bam Bam:Yes. Finally.
Gizmo:Yeah. Because we had switched to a different flight.
Bam Bam:That's correct. Flight number 230.
Gizmo:Yeah. If I remember correct though. Yeah. We were like really crazy on the app trying to switch stuff. I was taking their phones.
Gizmo:And you saved
Bam Bam:seven people?
Gizmo:Yeah. I tried to get a lot of folks on the
Bam Bam:flight. Seven or people.
Gizmo:At the airport, they would not put anybody else on a different flight. You have to do it through the app.
Bam Bam:That's You cannot do it
Gizmo:at the airport.
Bam Bam:Girls were crying. He was coming to the rescue. It was unbelievable. Yeah.
Gizmo:It was it was a total mess. But I have
Bam Bam:to say though, at that point, the staff was very helpful and proactive in communicating with you and helping you go on the app, ask this question. They were great. At that point, were great. Prior to that,
Gizmo:they were In the first eight and a half hours. They were useless.
Bam Bam:Yeah. But they realized the pressure was So
Gizmo:we get on the plane and then we get a message from the captain and we have a tight connection at this point. I had
Bam Bam:to come Well, don't forget. Before we left, you
Gizmo:checked for rental cars. So we had switched our connecting flight to a later flight, the last flight out of Miami back to the New York area, to Newark, right? We looked at JFK, LaGuardia, everything. So we had gotten on the last one. So we end up boarding the flight out of Havana to make our connection in Miami to get back to New York.
Gizmo:And the pilot comes on and goes, we're waiting because there are two people who are supposed to be on this plane. Somewhere in the airport, they're not on the plane.
Rooster:So Bam Bam and Henry
Chef Ricky:They were in the lounge.
Gizmo:They were in the lounge. So long story short, they kept us on the tarmac for another twenty or thirty minutes, which then caused us to miss our connecting flight in Miami. Yeah. So then the problem was there must have been some sort of weather issue, spring break or something in Miami that there were no flights out of Miami, Fort Lauderdale, or Palm Beach until Sunday morning, thirty six hours later, to get back to New York. So I had to find flights out of Fort Myers.
Gizmo:We had to drive from Miami to Fort Myers Two Yeah. It was about two hours.
Bam Bam:About two hours, dodging alligators on the street.
Gizmo:And we got a United flight back loves nature. I can
Senator:imagine this car ride.
Bam Bam:This was pitch black through the Everglades or the swamps of Florida.
Rooster:The alligator rally. Correct.
Senator:I would pay to have a camera to watch Pam make that drive a load.
Bam Bam:No. Oh, yeah. Well
Senator:In the dark.
Bam Bam:I didn't look up the entire time I was on my phone.
Gizmo:Yeah. He let me do the dirty work.
Bam Bam:Oh, very nifty driving, by the way.
Rooster:Thank you.
Bam Bam:Very good.
Rooster:So how much extra did you end up paying for all these for
Gizmo:the other flight? The other flight was probably what? 400?
Senator:4 hundred
Gizmo:Something like that. $400. And then the rental car was, I think, 301 Yeah.
Bam Bam:Not single refund will be offered by the airline.
Gizmo:Yeah. American Airlines so all the people at Miami were saying, you know, American's gonna refund you for United flight, your your rental car, etcetera, and American has completely denied all that. So we're still fighting that. Anyway,
Senator:this is what happens when I'm not there.
Gizmo:The bookend of the trips, the power outage coming in and these flights getting out ended up being a total nightmare. But we did get home Saturday morning, a week later. Yeah. Finally, after quite a was
Bam Bam:an adventure.
Gizmo:Yeah. So that's the story on Cuba Twenty Twenty Five so far for us.
Rooster:That's Cuba.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Rooster:Things happen.
Bam Bam:Being Cuba.
Pagoda:You know when you land in The US,
Bam Bam:you still feel so good, don't
Gizmo:Oh, totally. I said that to Ben.
Bam Bam:When I walked in my door at home, never felt so good.
Gizmo:We went to Chipotle.
Bam Bam:I had
Gizmo:rented the I hate that food. We went to Chipotle. We were We inhaled Chipotle at about 11:00 at night.
Bam Bam:Felt like a gourmet meal.
Gizmo:It was awesome.
Rooster:It was the Ropa Vieja burrito.
Bam Bam:But funny enough, most of the staff, if not all of them, were Cubans. They were Cubans.
Gizmo:Yeah. They were listening to Cuban music and singing. And yeah, it was was pretty cool. Oh, yeah. So that's the that's the story on our Cuba trip.
Gizmo:We had planned, like I said, we had plans for some more content and some more adventures to share with you, the listeners out there and the other lizards in the room. But given the circumstances, we had to cut things down a little bit this time. That's alright. Overall, next time.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It was a very nice trip.
Gizmo:We wish you were there.
Senator:For lizards after dark.
Pagoda:Yes. Oh, yes.
Gizmo:So boys, it's time now to move into our second pairing. We have another Ron Santiago de Cuba, the 11 years aged, the Onse. Let's try this and see how it compares to the eight. Cheers. Cheers.
Gizmo:Good to be back.
Bam Bam:Salud. Cheers.
Chef Ricky:Oh, yeah. This nose is much sweeter.
Gizmo:Oh, that's a great rum. That's really good. That's really good.
Bam Bam:Come on, man. That's delicious.
Gizmo:What are you what's your first impression, Ricky?
Bam Bam:Dessert. This is the first time you're having this, right?
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. No. This is this is a little rounder, not as much heat as the eight. And I thought that was gonna mean a little less flavor, but it's not less flavor.
Chef Ricky:It's kind of butterscotchy vanilla.
Senator:Why would you think that the higher HD would have less flavor?
Chef Ricky:I I just a lot of times, again, because of my experience with agave spirits, higher proof spirits tend to offer more flavor, at least with agave distillates. So that's why
Bam Bam:I didn't mind the heat on the on the eight year.
Chef Ricky:I still don't mind it. I still like the eight year. I do like this a little bit better, but I'm not I don't dislike the eight year. I I respect that it's, you know, age less and a little bit hotter.
Senator:I think these have to be both 40.
Bam Bam:I I I don't know.
Senator:Can I see the
Pagoda:Yeah?
Bam Bam:Eight. I left my reading glasses at home. I can't see it.
Senator:Yeah. The eight years forty, 40%.
Bam Bam:Okay. Yeah.
Chef Ricky:He proof. Definitely drinks hotter.
Bam Bam:It does. This is 40 as well. 40 as well.
Chef Ricky:Okay. It definitely drinks hotter and it feels a little bit brighter than
Bam Bam:the 11 Chef, you've had the Havana Club seven, yeah? Yeah. How do you compare that to this? What's your opinion?
Chef Ricky:Well, trying to jog back to that. It's tough. I haven't had enough as much as you guys to sort of have it ingrained in my memory. But I feel like the Havana Club drinks a little bit easier. Yes.
Chef Ricky:But I don't think that's I don't think that's necessarily a merit. I think this has more flavor.
Bam Bam:I will disagree with that.
Chef Ricky:I could be wrong again. I've had this a couple times in the lounge.
Bam Bam:What's so incredible about that seven year rum, it's only seven years old, for me it's so flavorful and super easy to drink. There is Do any
Gizmo:of you have
Chef Ricky:that in your locker currently?
Senator:I don't.
Chef Ricky:No.
Bam Bam:But there's a lot of vanilla, a little bit of butterscotch, but heavy vanilla and caramel. It's really a unique seven year expression compared to this eleven year. I'd rather have that than this. I'll say that.
Senator:Think you're both right to me in the sense that I think where Chef may be coming from, I think the Santiago 11 is richer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think to Bam's point, like, I get more distinct flavors in the Havana Seven than I do the Santiago 11.
Bam Bam:The notes are more pronounced, and it's just so easy to drink.
Senator:And the Santiago 11 has, going back to when I say richer, like more viscosity than the Havana Seven does. And even the Santiago eight has more viscosity. I think that's just the style. I mean, you think of Santiago 20, that's like almost syrupy. It's like really rich and concentrated and intense.
Senator:And delicious.
Chef Ricky:You're dead on with that, Senator. I think if there's anything that I remember is that this is definitely richer to me than the Havana Seven for sure. And I like I like that. I like that. I like this because of that reason.
Senator:Yeah. The thing that's strange that I can't figure out is when Bam brought this eleven year back, I think we tried a little bit in the lounge, and our immediate reaction, which is always what I know and remember of Santiago Eleven was how sweet it was. And to us, too sweet. Yeah. And I mean, it's a point that Bam was kinda regretting he had bought the bottle, we were like, no.
Senator:It's great to do on the pod.
Bam Bam:I almost felt like it's changed. The the recipe may have changed. It tasted different for me.
Senator:For me, it tastes identical to how I remembered it, which is why, like, the 11, I always just found too sweet. I like a drier, more balanced anything. That's how I
Bam Bam:And you want that with me?
Senator:Well, the Havana Club for sure. Correct. And I think the Santiago Twelve, which I hope we do on the pod at
Chef Ricky:some point,
Senator:to me is more balanced, skews a little drier, not as sweet as the 11. But what's weird is right now, and I can't think I I it almost has to be maybe because we had the eight, and maybe my palate is just acclimated to the Santiago flavor profile. This doesn't right now drink as sweet as it did just a week or
Bam Bam:two ago. It is weird.
Senator:And what I've always known this rum to be. So I'm I'm having a hard time as to why right now that's
Gizmo:Do you think it's because it had time to open up that you poured it, you know, an hour and ten minutes ago?
Senator:It very well could be. I mean, if you think about it, we're in Havana, we're ordering rum anywhere. Those bottles are not sitting for a while. No. I mean, they're going through them
Bam Bam:quickly. So
Senator:any bottle they're pouring from has just been opened probably within the last, twenty four or forty eight hours max.
Bam Bam:But he makes a good point. The moment we opened that bottle of 11, we took our samples from it.
Gizmo:And tonight you did it.
Bam Bam:That night in the club. Correct.
Senator:And it was super sweet. Correct.
Bam Bam:And it opened up in the room, so maybe that's the case.
Gizmo:Yeah, that could be.
Chef Ricky:I will say on the eight, I was getting a lot more vanilla and interestingly enough here I don't get as much vanilla, I get more fruit and you know being that it's spent more time in you know aging in wood.
Bam Bam:Get more vanilla on the nose with the 11.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. But I'm not getting it that. I was getting vanilla on the palate on the eight. Here I'm getting more fruit. I'm getting brighter fruits here than I am vanilla.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I really enjoy it. I'm really enjoying this.
Bam Bam:I like the individuality of each. Sure.
Gizmo:I like how different they are. With only three years of age, I think they both offer something. They're distinguished, you know. And the price is effectively double, by the way. So on the 11, I think the bottle was 59.
Gizmo:Yeah. On the eight, the bottle was 29.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think I spent $52 if I remember correctly. 59. Okay. It was $62.
Bam Bam:MacGyver.
Chef Ricky:Drastic color difference between the eight and eleven. I'm looking at the two here side by side.
Senator:Oh, that's only because I have so little in there.
Bam Bam:And your glasses are tinted, by the way.
Chef Ricky:No. No. No. That's why I'm looking I'm looking at Senator's.
Bam Bam:Oh, okay.
Senator:Reason I say that, when we poured here's the bottle actually of the eight. The the thing I'm surprised with the eight, it's actually dark.
Bam Bam:It is. Yeah. It's actually not that far off. It's not far off.
Senator:And and I was shocked by this because, I mean, Havana 7 is not this dark. It's more golden. And, you know, you think of even other seven or eight year aged rums like Florida Cana or others we've had. Mhmm. They're not this like, this is the style of Santiago.
Senator:It's a richer
Bam Bam:More amber in color.
Senator:Yeah. Expression than really any of the other rum brands that we drink.
Bam Bam:The Havana Club I find to be more golden in color. Agree.
Gizmo:So let's just do a little quick history here on Ron Santiago de Cuba. It's a Cuban rum brand, of course, originating from the city of Santiago De Cuba, which is located in the Oriente region of Southeastern Cuba. The area is renowned as the cradle of light rum due to its significant role in the development of Ron Lihero Cubano style rum since 1862. This brand was officially established in 1970 with the launch of its Carta Blanca rum. In 1999, da Cuba was added to the name, so now it's Santiago Da Cuba, to emphasize its Cuban heritage, and that coincided with the introduction of its anejo expression.
Gizmo:It's produced in one of Cuba's oldest distilleries, which has a history linked to the former Matus Salem distillery. And I'm wondering, senator, if this is the old Bacardi distillery in Santiago De Cuba that was dismissed in the early nineteen sixties. So I I don't have any information on that specifically, but I'm wondering if what they're talking about here is the Santiago De Cuba is made in the old Bacardi factory. And we did the Bacardi Reserva Ocho a few episodes ago, I believe with the Partagas cigar, the Partagas Linea Maestro Rito, and it performed pretty well. So that's that for Santiago De Cuba rum.
Gizmo:So we have the eight and the 11 tonight. And like I said, we did the 20 many moons ago, so we'll go through that a little bit.
Bam Bam:It's gonna be an interesting rating tonight.
Chef Ricky:Question for you guys. Anyone ever drink the the I guess the silver unaged variants of these rums?
Gizmo:No. Never. No. Only aged steak Just
Chef Ricky:do the aged stuff? Mhmm. Yeah. P interested to try the Blancos or Silvers or
Gizmo:I do have some information on the Carta Blanco, which was the first one they they announced it's aged in white oak barrels. They say it has subtle notes of freshly cut sugarcane and aged spirits, and it's ideally used for cocktails. So I think without the age statement on it, think it's probably a little harsher, a little bit more rough. Hi, I think. With the time, obviously it helps.
Gizmo:And they also, as we know, have the 12 years old that Senator was referencing and the 20 years old Gran Reserva, which is, I would say, the most luxurious of them all, and we rated that quite some time ago. We love that.
Bam Bam:I love alcohol. I do.
Gizmo:Well said, Bam. I do.
Pagoda:No comments.
Gizmo:So, boys, it's time to go to some listener email now. So we're gonna start with one that actually ties to the conversation we were having a little earlier. This one's from Lizard John from Boise who writes us all the time. Always a great email from him. We really appreciate him writing in.
Gizmo:He says, hi, Giz. I hope you and the boys are doing well. I had a question for you regarding your current buying habits. With some of the online retailers suspending shipments to The US and others no longer guaranteeing delivery, have you guys cut back or eliminated your Cuban cigar purchases? If you are still making
Gizmo:Cuban purchases, what has changed, if anything, in making your choices? I e, are you just purchasing your absolute favorites, looking for good deals, etcetera? As always, best wishes, lizard John from Boise. Good email. So where is everybody at right now in their Cuban purchasing?
Bam Bam:Well, are we talking about Johnny O or not talking
Gizmo:about Johnny? We're not talking about Johnny O.
Bam Bam:Well, if that's the case, I don't remember the last time I bought a box of Cuban cigars. Yeah. It's been a while.
Gizmo:I'm in the same boat?
Senator:Yeah. I'm in the same I mean, I I vividly remember the last couple bucks I bought it was the Bolivar Gold Medal.
Bam Bam:Oh, that's right.
Gizmo:That was the last one I bought too.
Bam Bam:Same.
Senator:And I think after that, the QD 52. And had I known this was going to happen with I have, I would have loaded up. This has been really shitty what has happened because in many ways I've become over the last couple of years like an I Have loyalist where I've never had an issue with them. Everything's made it through. I've never had a concern around the authenticity of a box, anything like that.
Senator:So I've exclusively really been ordering from I have. Now with this situation, I haven't purchased anything since. I'm going to have to eventually figure something out. I mean, my supply will at some point dwindle enough that I'm gonna need to, but luckily, the reserves are strong. They're I'll
Bam Bam:it for
Pagoda:a while,
Gizmo:but once that changes He's got healthy reserves.
Bam Bam:Very healthy.
Senator:This is where Tupperware comes in handy.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:Rooster, where's your buying at right now?
Rooster:I haven't bought any Cuban cigars for quite some time. I think the last box that I got was from one of the Facebook groups, and that was it. Haven't really bought anything. Mostly new world.
Bam Bam:Same, honestly.
Pagoda:Mostly new world.
Bam Bam:You were stocking up on our Davodol separate drones.
Gizmo:Yeah. Halladinos, Fabric of Five, Stoic.
Bam Bam:Stoic. Definitely Fabric of Five, definitely Stoic. Aging rooms for sure.
Rooster:I think fabric of five has really filled the gap between buying Cuban cigars. And it kind of delivers because the Honduran tobacco is so close to the Cuban tobacco, so it gives you that flavor.
Bam Bam:I can't wait to crack into my Trinity Rubusto water.
Gizmo:So Pagoda, are you in the same boat, not really purchasing a lot of Cubans at the moment?
Pagoda:Zero, yeah. Because I tended to buy from IHabs as well, and except for one or two of the Facebook guys. But, yeah, I haven't bought any Cuban recently at all.
Rooster:And I'm sure this IHAV thing is also impacting a lot of the sellers on these groups.
Bam Bam:Oh,
Gizmo:market lot great market
Rooster:guys to buy from I have.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Gizmo:I would actually caution any listeners. If you hear us talking about Facebook group buys and you're seeing someone that's selling a lot of fresh boxes or has a lot of stock, I would be concerned about that because what I've seen is a major fall off in the availability of those, not secondary, tertiary market sellers on Facebook who buy at these gray market vendors and then transact elsewhere. It's been a major fall off because of what's happened here. A lot of those sellers are gone. They don't even sell anymore.
Gizmo:So I would just be cautious out there, especially on Facebook and other social media. If you see people selling high volume of fresh Cuban cigars, would be cautious about that because, you know, things have definitely died down a little bit, you know, so be careful. Chef Ricky, what's your Cuban purchasing been
Chef Ricky:like? My last purchase came from EGM. I got some QD fifties. Prior to that, it was all I have, a couple dives into Bon Roberts, but other than that, it's just been your world. Thankfully, we've come across some really delicious New World cigars, so I'm not sad about it.
Bam Bam:Yeah, but there are still some sources like FOH. I think it makes sense if you're going after standard production and you need to stock I would be doing that if I'm looking to stock up. Yeah. There's no doubt about it.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to another listener email. This is from Lizard Bonos. He says, dear lizards, thanks for your ongoing edutainment. I'm enjoying having the pod to keep me company during my work commute on the tube.
Gizmo:Tonight, I went and bought a half bottle of Glenphidic twelve after you're literally pouring over it recently. We love that. He says, I've not been a fan of this. I've tried it a few times over the years, and I never got along with it. I do I do enjoy a scotch now and again, but I've settled on the NCF no color added cask strength, sherry style finish, usually independent bottlings, which can also be of great value.
Gizmo:After trying the Glenfiddich twelve just now, I've concluded that you are all crazy. It's okay, but it's not great. Quite light, floral with not much of a finish, and at around £40 a bottle priced about right, I guess, these days. But this got me thinking about regional palettes. Maybe I just don't agree with the American taste.
Gizmo:I mean, Coke, McDonald's, Frosty's, all tailor their recipes to the local region. I'm sure the list is extensive. Even Habanos produces cigars aimed at different markets. Punch and Ramon Ionis for The UK, QDO for France to pick on just a couple. There's even regional preferences.
Gizmo:The Spanish generally prefer fresh cigars I've heard a couple of times over. What do you guys think? From recent shows, you all tend to agree with each other, not wild opinion swings. The US palette. Sure.
Gizmo:There's the likes of Pagoda, but he's been there a while, so he has a tainted palette. As much as I enjoy your show, I think I can't just go by your ratings based on this. They say to find a reviewer with a palette similar to ones of your own, and we may be just a world apart. Keep up doing the good work and long ashes to you all. Yours truly, lizard Bonos.
Chef Ricky:So is this just based off of the Glenfiddich?
Gizmo:I think at this point, it's based off the Glenfiddich, I know he listens a lot, so maybe he's tried a few other things. But I think our glowing review of how the Glenfiddich twelve tasted to us, I think that's what prompted that.
Bam Bam:I do love I love the question of the palate and the the quest the palate question and how we each interpret things. I don't think we all agree as to what our favorite Cuban cigar may be. We all have our favorites, and they differ some differ drastically.
Gizmo:I don't think it's got
Rooster:anything to do with The US palate. Yeah, I agree. Because you guys drink lots of different kinds of spirits. From tequilas to cognacs to champagnes to realms to Tequilas.
Senator:I think that's true. Honestly, think it's a shame that the Glenfiddich is kind of what this listener used as a gauge of our palates, and I say that because I'll speak for myself, I think a number had agreed with me on this. When I drank Glenfiddich twelve years ago, I never particularly liked it.
Bam Bam:No. It's different.
Senator:You've all been to my house plenty of times. Have I ever had a bottle of Glenfiddich there? No. Never once. No.
Senator:And so I was shocked when we did it on the pod that something seems like it changed, and I almost wonder, especially a half bottle, those are not scotch bottles that move as quickly as a full size bottle, that maybe that's an older bottle that's been sitting at that store for some time, and can be kind of that old batch that I never really appreciated. And so I would look at some of our other single malt reviews that scored high, and I think probably anything outside of that bottle, I'd have to imagine if this person is a scotch drinker, that they would very much align with most of us in terms of what we enjoy. So I think that's kind of an outlier.
Gizmo:That one, you know, and we have to point out too, and that's a good point, Senator, that the Glenfiddich 12 was one of the first Scotches that we specifically pointed because of the old experiences that not I had, you guys have had Yes. With older, you know, iterations of Glenfiddich 12, that whatever this current run is, to quote Rob Isle, we always talk about runs now, that whatever this current run of is of Glenfiddich 12 that we're getting here in The States, it's a home run. Yeah. It's a home run.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:And I you know, like I said, I I didn't drink it prior to us having it on the pod here. I know you guys have had it many times. How much has it changed? If we gave that I don't know if we gave that a nine or a 10. Forget what we gave it.
Bam Bam:It was highly rated.
Gizmo:It was very highly rated. What would you have given the old iteration that you've complained about? Where would that have scored?
Bam Bam:I would
Senator:have given it a seven.
Bam Bam:Yeah, that's seven. I mean,
Senator:for me, I used to drink Glenphidic 12. American actually at one point, respectably, had that as their standard
Gizmo:Their single mile.
Senator:Single mile on an airplane, which was great at the time because most of the airlines, you'd get doers, white label. Some of the really entry level blended scotch, not even a single ball. And so when I would have that on a plane, you know, it was better than most of the options, and so I was somewhat satisfied. But it was nothing complex, nothing particularly pronounced or enjoyable about it that I'd ever go buy a bottle myself, which is why I had never in my entire life purchased a bottle of Glenfiddich twelve. The experience now, even now, and that's also why I say to this listener, I I wish I I don't think that's really a great gauge for Mm-mm.
Senator:Our scotch palate in the sense that even now, I still don't think it's a particularly complex single malt. It's not. It's very straightforward, but it's definitely smoother and more refined than I remember Glenfiddich being. It's a bit more flavorful than I remember it being. And I think for the price point and its ability, its versatility in being able to pair with such a range of cigars, especially Cuban cigars that are, you know, not as full bodied as a lot of New World cigars.
Bam Bam:But also its versatility in drinking at a certain time of year. It'd be great for a summer drink with ice. Totally. In the winter, neat.
Senator:Which is also where, like, it's a lighter expression
Bam Bam:of Yeah.
Senator:A single malt. And that's why, you know, I don't think any of us were scoring that for its complexity to hold up to like a really rich, robust experience if you're having a fuller bodied cigar. It was more it can pair very nicely with a lot of Cuban cigars, it doesn't fight with anything that you're smoking, It's smooth. It's easy drinking.
Bam Bam:It's a pretty universal spirit.
Senator:You feel good drinking it. I mean, we've talked about certain single malts are not meant to be consumed in volume. They're meant to be appreciated with just a couple of glasses, and that's a single malt that is so easygoing, you can enjoy plenty of it throughout a long day that you're just smoking and having a good time outdoors. A lot of merit there. And that's more, I think, where we were coming from on that rating, but I think a lot of our other single malt ratings in the twelve year and above range are more reflective of true sipping single malts that aren't necessarily designed for volume or more to just have a complete experience with a particular cigar or something that you're doing.
Bam Bam:You know, like the Belvene 12 double cask, the Caribbean cask, the Oban 14. You know, these are very specific tastes And they differ from person to person and what you're pairing it with.
Gizmo:Good feedback for the listener. Yeah. To to kinda sum this all up, try something else that we've rated really highly that you can get in the market that you're in and and see if you agree with us.
Senator:Now the American palate Coca Cola and some of the things,
Bam Bam:I mean Oh, that sounds like a Gizmo menu. More What? More Frosties. I I dude, I can't tell you the last time I had a Frosty.
Senator:More tariffs than make
Bam Bam:little cold heading UK's way after that.
Chef Ricky:Who doesn't like
Bam Bam:But he also mentioned cigar tastes and palettes on the cigar, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. So I would love some more feedback on this topic from Lizard Bonos and hopefully, you know, he's able to do some more comparison to our ratings in reviews and see if more things are not aligned than just the
Rooster:And maybe he has some recommendations
Senator:for us. And actually, the last thing I'll say, because I think this is helpful for all listeners who are interpreting our ratings, You know, we rate based on every factor, and one of those is price. And so, you know, if that were a $90 bottle, there is no way it would have scored the same that it did, Right? For its price point, which was very accessible at the twelve year kind of benchmark now, which has obviously gone up over the last few years and will continue to, it's competitively priced. It delivers good value at that price point.
Senator:And I think that's something also to consider when you're looking at rating. We're not saying if we give something that's a $40 bottle a 10, that doesn't mean that it can compete neck and neck with a hundred and $60 bottle.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. That doesn't mean it's the greatest scotch we've ever drank.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Senator:That means in its category, is $40 spirits
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:It is at the top of that class.
Gizmo:And in the moment in the room.
Senator:Yeah. Totally.
Gizmo:That we're all experiencing it together.
Bam Bam:Correct. And
Chef Ricky:with that cigar.
Rooster:Right?
Chef Ricky:So if he wasn't smoking the cigar we had that evening with that scotch, then his rating may not be anywhere near. That's true. A similar cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So All right.
Gizmo:Well, we appreciate the email and let's continue on here boys. We did get some feedback. I was actually shocked about this. So I actually held some of this feedback for when we did the Bajique 58 because it's some of it is on the Cohiba Siglo six review that we did. And this one's from Lizard Luigi.
Gizmo:We got a few comments on this. Hey, guys. I'm listening to your Siglo six episode now, and I'm a little perplexed about the scoring. I have no issues with the guys who were fortunate enough to get a good constructed cigar to give it a 10. My issue is with Senator and Giz giving it an eight, which is still a recommend given that the experience was quote unquote incomplete, which I think was my word.
Gizmo:This is not a con criticism of anyone in any way. However, I see it as me sparking the conversation of the ongoing construction issue in relation to experiencing satisfaction. My ultimate question is, are your scores towards Cubans more lenient knowing the probable construction issues, or are they more strict knowing that the construction issues exist? It seems as though you scored it what you did despite the construction issues and not because of it. An incomplete experience does not deserve an eight.
Gizmo:As always, I love the content, and I hope you don't take this as a criticism. It's strictly a talking point. I love the Lizard Luigi.
Bam Bam:I do like this email.
Senator:Yeah. It's a great email.
Gizmo:Great email.
Senator:I'm happy to start. On construction, the higher the price point, the stricter I am about construction. I cannot expect a $5 cigar to be constructed like a $40 cigar.
Bam Bam:Although we've had some incredible $6 cigars that were constructed beautifully. We have.
Senator:And that's why they deserve a world of credit for But you know, a $40 cigar, I expect to have perfect construction.
Bam Bam:It should be prime time.
Senator:The whole idea, I'm always willing to pay more for more. And so it's not about Cuban or New World. You know, Cuban cigars, because prices have gotten up, tend to be more than New World cigars. So if anything, I actually have a higher expectation as far as construction. I'm not gonna pay $40 for a Cuban cigar and lower my standard of wanting just a a properly constructed cigar that draws and burns evenly, it doesn't have ash flaking all over me.
Senator:I mean, those are basics that a $67 cigar can deliver. So for me, I am never more lenient with a Cuban cigar. It's just a factor of price point, and I think it's reasonable to expect that a premium price ought to deliver premium construction.
Rooster:A Siglo six is a hundred dollar cigar. Right. Yeah.
Senator:Right. It should be perfectly constructed.
Gizmo:So I guess the question here is is and and I have another one actually in the same vein that I wanna read. But I guess the question is why give it an eight given you're in my commentary as opposed to a six or a seven?
Senator:Oh, because
Gizmo:Because of the experience we had in the room.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, again Well, there are other factors That's exactly
Bam Bam:right. For crying out
Senator:loud. I think for all of us, we agree on this. I think when we're all rating, I hear everyone at one point or another say, you know, the most important of those many factors is
Gizmo:flavor. Exactly.
Bam Bam:And it was a delicious cigar.
Senator:That's the thing. And it was the flavor profile was excellent. And so I'm not gonna give a cigar a six that I thought the flavor was excellent and just had some construction issues a six. I mean, no. It's an eight because the flavor was so awesome that I knocked off clearly two points for construction and the other complaints that I had, but that doesn't mean that it completely destroyed or ruined my experience with the cigar.
Senator:No. The flavor was excellent. So
Gizmo:I'm in the same boat. I mean, I love that cigar so much, And I took off those two points because of exactly what you're just saying. Yeah. Like, had I not had construction issues, had senator and I had a cigar that was similar to the rest of the guys in the room, that composite score would have been higher than a nine. But because we rated it, we had the cigars we did, we rated it the way we did.
Bam Bam:Sure. And every other cigar in the room was performing beautifully.
Gizmo:I agree. Yeah. So let me go to one more comment on this same topic. This is from Lizard Tony. He says, Lizards, you can't give an eight when you are that displeased.
Gizmo:Never mind the name or the price of a cigar is that disappointing for house for some. How can you give a personal score of eight? It should have been more of a six based on your past scores. Do better lizards, and senator has to retrohale or his opinions are invalid. Accountability hour, boys.
Rooster:Oh, boy.
Bam Bam:Lizard Tony out. Yeah. He ended that
Senator:perfectly. Lizard Tony is out.
Bam Bam:He's so out. He's in.
Rooster:It goes
Senator:to my point. Flavor is the most important factor.
Gizmo:Of course. I would have given that cigar a six or a seven if it didn't taste great.
Senator:Yeah. Exactly.
Gizmo:And it did. I did. Was incomplete, and I took two points off
Bam Bam:for it. I I I kind of appreciate what you're tell talking about because it just adds a level of detail and experience that matters. It matters how it performs.
Rooster:And also, guys have had other Seaglow 6s that have performed well, and the flavor has been spot on.
Bam Bam:Like ours, like everyone else in the But
Rooster:this particular one had construction issues, so you took off a couple of points just because of the construction. Totally. But the flavor was still there.
Senator:And to be clear, you know, what's this lizard's name again? Lizard Tony. And to be clear with Lizard Tony's comment about a six, I'm not gonna give something a six where I would recommend anyone smoke a Siglo six.
Gizmo:I agree.
Senator:I don't think that any type of smoker would like that cigar and not appreciate the flavor profile that it delivers. A six is a cigar that I would very mildly recommend know, recommend. Not even a recommend. I mean, not not actively recommend. Like, in a pinch, if there was nothing you know, not much available, is it smokeable?
Senator:Can there be something enjoyable about a part of it? But I I that's not the case for a Sea Glow six. It's like through and through, the flavor profile is awesome. We just had some construction issues. That's not a six rating, so I hope that clears that up.
Senator:There should never be a world in which you sit there, you smoke a cigar and say, I love the flavor, it's a six. I mean, that doesn't make any sense.
Gizmo:Yeah. And especially a cigar that you and I wanna try again and have again.
Chef Ricky:Yes.
Gizmo:And a cigar that we would absolutely demand a listener need to try at some point in their smoking journey.
Senator:And to Gizmo's point there, I've smoked a Seagullo six since we recorded that episode because the flavor's excellent on that cigar.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Senator:If I rated that as six, I would definitely not pick that cigar up again unless, again, I had no choice whatsoever, and I'm in a random shop and I have to buy a cigar, and that just happens to be the only option. That's not the case with this cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. And if I remember correctly, our other ratings were higher than the eight.
Gizmo:Yeah. I think the composite on it was a nine.
Bam Bam:Because of our was had a different experience. Yeah. Yeah. And the composite always works. It
Gizmo:always works.
Senator:Always. Keep in mind, lizards, this is a hundred and something dollar cigar. Mhmm. I mean, for for that price point, it better be perfect.
Gizmo:Mhmm. Yes. Exactly right. That's correct. So boys, we're coming into the last third now on the Cohiba Bihike 58.
Gizmo:What's everybody thinking as we get into the last third on this? Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I see rooster's face. Looks pale.
Bam Bam:His eyebrows are furrowed.
Rooster:Well, I I mean, I had a little bit of a construction issue. I mean, the the the wrapper
Senator:It's a 6.
Gizmo:7 hundred or $700 cigar.
Senator:It's a 6.
Rooster:I'm not too I mean, there was a little bit
Gizmo:of a crack that I thought might just resolve itself, but it did, you know, the
Bam Bam:crack Did it resolve itself?
Rooster:No, it did not. The crack got a little bit bigger. But, you know, for the price point that you're going to pay for this cigar, you expect a certain level that should be there. It should be flawless. Not only flavor wise, construction wise, everything should be flawless about that cigar.
Bam Bam:So I don't It's a cigar, and it's made like every other cigar in Havana and in Cuba. It's made the same way.
Pagoda:Foundation price it.
Gizmo:That bar price $700
Bam Bam:So think about that.
Rooster:Yeah. And I honestly don't know. I don't taste the media tiempo in this cigar. I don't get that.
Bam Bam:How far down are you from the bottom? Did you not experience any increase in body at all? Not really. Really?
Senator:Really, I'm surprised.
Gizmo:I have. Have.
Bam Bam:Oh, I'm really, I have to say, I'm enjoying this now.
Gizmo:I'm very, very happy in the back half of this cigar as to where it's progressed to.
Bam Bam:So look, the one I had in Cuba, this is like night and day. I agree. This is delicious. There's an increase in richness. Honestly, I'm getting a toasted like a cedar type thing happening way in the background of my retrohale.
Bam Bam:It is really quite good. It's quite good.
Chef Ricky:I'm getting tropical fruit still.
Bam Bam:Is it pineapple or kiwi?
Chef Ricky:No. You know, I'm I'm gonna call one out here, and I don't know that many people are gonna, you know, be able
Rooster:to to relate to it because Durian?
Chef Ricky:No. I'm I'm getting guava.
Senator:I was I wish you would have paused. Knew you were gonna say that.
Bam Bam:So I I don't I don't know about the guava, but there's a pungent nature to this that I'm really liking.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. There's a little bit of a It's like that. How can I describe guava?
Rooster:I love guava.
Bam Bam:It's pungent. It's a
Chef Ricky:straw of the There's a raspiness to guava.
Bam Bam:Yes. I like raspiness.
Chef Ricky:No. I dislike it. I'm saying it's a merit.
Bam Bam:If you have guava in your house and it sits out, it starts to have that almost- Overripe sort of- Overripe aroma.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Just like passion fruit. It has something similar.
Bam Bam:I'm getting that. I can't say that it's guava, but that's kind of what I'm getting. And I'm really liking it.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. It's picked up in strength just a bit. It's gotten a little bit raspy for lack of a better term.
Gizmo:I'm getting more papaya.
Bam Bam:Papaya is the complete opposite because it has a sweetness. Papaya has no. It's my experience, dammit.
Rooster:I'm getting papaya.
Bam Bam:No, no, no. You're wrong. That's my idea. Have you not
Chef Ricky:been listening to the emails? Yeah, no, I mean, I'm enjoying it. I wish this happened a little earlier on in the cigar because now I don't know, after sitting here for almost two hours with it, now it's starting to deliver some more pungent flavors, pronounced flavors, if you will.
Gizmo:I'm very happy with it right now. I I I would say it is a departure from my my limited understanding of what bijike is. Cigars that I've had from you know, that are bijike. But I'm really enjoying this cigar right now. The back half has been amazing.
Gizmo:I think the flavor right now has a little bit more oomph than it did in the first half, and I'm really enjoying this right now. I I don't want it to end.
Senator:Yeah. So I'll I'll just say for me, the the first two thirds were pretty much the same, very mild. Nothing offensive for a morning smoke, you know, would be somewhat satisfying. The last third is where this transition to firmly medium to me. The flavor profile got richer.
Senator:I got more walnut at the start of the last third. We were talking about a faint bit of nuttiness in the first two thirds. It really picked up in the last third. And some of the tropical fruit notes that that chef's pointing out, I I don't think are crazy.
Bam Bam:I think
Senator:they are present there. I say that in you know, the sad part for me is if the first two thirds could have been much more like the last third
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:I would have enjoyed this cigar a whole lot more. Yeah. And that's where I'm just left disappointed in some ways at this kind of insane price point. Every third should deliver something super satisfying and memorable, and that's only happening in the final third, and I wouldn't say that even the experience in the final third is among the best Cuban cigars I've ever had, which is $700, It
Rooster:lacks complexity. I
Bam Bam:agree. Yeah, yeah.
Gizmo:For me right now, I will say it is a little one dimensional. Yeah. It's a little bit more full, but to echo what everyone's saying, it's not a complex smoke.
Chef Ricky:Core flavor
Bam Bam:has remained the same. Blending decisions are bewildering then on a cigar.
Chef Ricky:It's No.
Pagoda:Maybe it needs to be aged because
Senator:at $700 a stick, it shouldn't Yeah.
Pagoda:It should not should
Rooster:be using some aged tobaccos in this. I mean, I don't
Gizmo:know what the if they talk about that, but
Bam Bam:I don't think
Gizmo:I don't think there's aged tobacco in this. I think, you know, we're smoking a cigar that's pretty fresh. I will say, though, and I'm curious for the room, are you guys tasting youth at this point?
Rooster:I would say a little bit.
Senator:For me, only in the final third.
Bam Bam:Really?
Gizmo:You? I haven't gotten a lot. I've actually gotten less than I expected at this point. Got a lot Knowing how fresh the cigar is.
Bam Bam:So in Cuba, I got a lot of use. Yeah. A lot of ammonia backup.
Gizmo:Yeah. Think there was just a lot of moisture in those.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Of course. This is a different experience for me. You know, am impressed regarding the construction.
Bam Bam:I was watching Pagoda cigar. It's course corrected. Know you touched it up just a little bit, not much, but I feel like the larger ring gauge cigars, it deviates and it will eventually get back to normal. I'm impressed with the build of this thing.
Pagoda:It's a well made cigar. For me, you know what happened was it got a little more saltier, the, you know, the black salt with the little floral thing, which I really, really enjoy. I
Rooster:was getting It goes well with guava, by the way.
Pagoda:Yeah, no, just got a little bit of Absolutely,
Bam Bam:absolutely. Never had black salt.
Pagoda:Yeah. But I think for me, that's what, it just became a little more enhanced in terms of a little bit of saltiness, which I really enjoyed. So that's true. I think towards the end, it's become a little better. You know, a little more robust and a little more Anyone can
Bam Bam:A little pepper at this point?
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. Little empty. It's transitioning
Bam Bam:Which I kind of like. Yeah. I don't mind it.
Chef Ricky:Get a little of that numbing sensation on the tip
Bam Bam:of your tongue. It's at least a different experience on this
Chef Ricky:thing. Mhmm.
Bam Bam:Right?
Rooster:It's not your typical Behike flavors that you Totally agree. That's where I'm
Bam Bam:of you said that early on.
Rooster:It's a little bit of a deviation from the Behike line. But to Rooster's point, I mean,
Senator:when we did that Partagas cigar, in the first third, we all said it was almost unrecognizable as a Partagas. In the last third, I feel like that was the point at which we said, okay, we're starting to see some of that Partagas DNA. To Rooster's point, I I even the last third can't say that I see a whole lot of Bahike DNA here.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I agree. Yep.
Gizmo:I agree with you guys. I still think as far as the four of the cigars go, and I'll comment like this because we haven't rated the Bijique 54, but that still stands as the king of the Agreed. King of the hill here Agreed. As far as the the Bijique cigars go.
Senator:But we did review that with Danilo.
Gizmo:Yeah. But we didn't rate it. So that's why, you know, I'm I'm I'm fair. I feel it's fair to comment on that before we rate
Bam Bam:because I still think the Bijicay That Bijicay fifty four that we smoked with him when we were all there. That was awesome.
Gizmo:That was fantastic. Yeah. He gave us. So we spoke to fifty eight and then we had a 54 after that and
Bam Bam:the 54 blew it away. Oh yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. I remember me and Bam had like the first Baehike release like early on going back like 12
Bam Bam:In our North Korean lounge.
Rooster:Yeah.
Bam Bam:Yeah, you gave me one.
Rooster:That was incredible smoke.
Bam Bam:It was velvety. So honestly, I've never, as they laugh, I've never experienced a cigar that was so velvety and creamy. It's kind of early in my cigar journey. I've never had anything like that. It blew me out of the water.
Bam Bam:It was great.
Rooster:I remember the wrapper being like had such beautiful sheen on it.
Bam Bam:Was perfect. Perfect.
Gizmo:Thanks for saving us one guys. Well, I don't think we knew you then. That's true. Alright, boys. Let's go to some more listener comments.
Gizmo:This now, we're moving to the Partagas Linea Maestra Rito episode. Some more comments on our ratings. This one is from lizard John Morris on YouTube. He said, it's a great review, but don't you think you guys should have given it at least twenty four months before reviewing it? And I saw that comment and I wanted to bring it up.
Rooster:It it was good just the way it
Gizmo:was. Yeah. I I to me, you know, we've talked about recent Cuban releases smoking better, regular production stuff. And for us, it's like, we're trying to review as close to what a consumer is going to be purchasing at retail as is reasonable. So to sit on a cigar for two years for the sake of it and given the experience we had, I think it was perfectly fair.
Rooster:But what do you think of that Maybe we review it in two years. Yeah. Again.
Gizmo:Yeah. What do you guys think of
Senator:that comment? I mean, think there's nothing wrong with revisiting a cigar after two years, but I think it's it's a little crazy to me for a cigar at any premium price point to not be enjoyable enough to smoke young. I mean, pay that outrageous price point to have to sit on it for at least two years to even have a at all satisfying smoking experience?
Bam Bam:That's right.
Senator:And I think, you know, we do this with almost any box we get. I think even ones that we know from others or our own experiences with it that do require some more time and age to develop into something really special, you still try it because for some of them, they're surprisingly ready to go, you know, young. And for others, you try that and you say there's a lot that I like about it, but there's some rough edges and some things that time needs to solve for. And with that cigar, what was so remarkable is time doesn't need to solve for anything with that cigar.
Chef Ricky:It's excellent.
Rooster:There's so many fresh boxes that we have smoked cigars lately.
Bam Bam:They were great.
Rooster:I mean, 22, 20 three's, 20 four's, and they have been spot on. There's been something about the blending decision that's being done at Habanos.
Senator:And you know you laughed
Gizmo:at me once
Bam Bam:with my 20. Do you remember?
Gizmo:Well, that was in 2020.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. Clairvoyantly, somehow I got those cigars in advance. Yeah. I travel time.
Rooster:Sometimes you do that.
Chef Ricky:Listen. After the week I just had, I don't know that I'm gonna be alive in two years. So I'm glad that we smoked that cigar, but
Bam Bam:we did. Tranquilo. Tranquilo, chef.
Gizmo:Don't be morbid, chef. Alright. So another comment now. This one's from Lizard Sean writes this all the time. He says, I just wrapped up the Partagas Linea Maestra episode.
Gizmo:I know you guys rated it a 9.2, but that seems low to me. From what you all described, the great flavors, the construction, and the burn, excluding price, it seemed like that was one of the best cigars you guys have ever had. And to rate it at 9.2, which is pretty equivalent to a d four and an e two, this one sounded like it was much better than those. I don't know, maybe it's just me, it just seemed like the rating was a little low. Mister Partagas, senator, I'd love to hear your commentary on
Senator:I mean, I'm sorry. For me, this is very simple. Look, when a cigar gets a 10 across the board, many of us will go out and purchase that cigar, and almost at any price point. I mean, I I definitely you know, admittedly, I broke my own rule, the $40 rule on the Bolivar Gold Medal. That cigar was above that price.
Bam Bam:You bought two boxes of those.
Senator:I bought one box. If they knew I was gonna go on would've stopped, I would've bought more than two
Bam Bam:for that. I bought two.
Senator:But that was a perfect example where I think that if not everyone, almost everyone gave it a 10. Correct. And I immediately went out and purchased a box the night or the next day. Now with that Partagas cigar, that was excellent, but it didn't prompt me to go out and purchase it right away. Yeah.
Senator:And that's why I think, you know, a 9.2 is a very fair score in that it's an excellent cigar, but it is not, oh my goodness, this is one of the greatest Cuban cigars of all time. I have to have it at any price point in my humidor. That wasn't the case. And that's not a knock saying it's a bad cigar, but a 10 is perfection. Sure.
Senator:There are few cigars, you know, those episodes where we all feel something's deserving of a 10, at its price point, are few and far between, and those are the ones that we all chase and pursue right away after we finish recording.
Gizmo:And smoke almost daily.
Bam Bam:Exactly. Not to mention the fact that a nine two is
Gizmo:an elite rating. Yeah. That's a great rating. Come on. Yeah.
Bam Bam:We're splitting hairs.
Rooster:Yeah. We only go up to 10. Yeah.
Senator:And also, I'm sorry,
Bam Bam:you know, for the listener, like, this
Senator:is not cigar aficionado. We're not just handing out nine point twos to every single cigar and bullshit cigars.
Bam Bam:Like, if
Senator:we give a cigar a 9.2, that is super high praise. So I I think we need to not be splitting hairs over a 9.2 versus a 10. A 10 is one of the greatest cigars we've had, period. Must purchase, must smoke on a regular basis, and that cigar was excellent, but not necessarily something that we all need to chase and pursue crazily.
Rooster:I mean, for that cigar to get a 9.2, that means a couple of the lizards did give it a 10. Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. So now, boys, it's time to go to some commentary on our selling boxes to friends discussion.
Senator:Alright. Can I finally retire as the attorney on on our listener emails? I hope this is a nicer email.
Pagoda:Must we do this?
Gizmo:You're gonna like these. Oh, boy. So Lizard John in Cleveland wrote, this was quite possibly the best ever episode. I love the spirited cigar markup to friends debate.
Bam Bam:He's
Gizmo:out. Senator was spot on in his analysis, and I'm happy to hook up my friends at cost for personal consumption only. But if you're gonna monetize what I sell you, that's a whole different ballgame. The Rolex comparison was also spot on. If you gave me a $20,000 watch and two years later sold it for 25,000, if you're my friend, I'd expect you to approach me about it.
Gizmo:It's the gentlemanly thing to do. At least offer me the right of first refusal.
Chef Ricky:All right.
Gizmo:You guys need to go at it more for my amusement.
Bam Bam:You want the Fundy's at what? $1,100? That what you want? $6.85. Oh, that's just not gonna happen.
Bam Bam:$6.85. It's just not gonna happen. Correct.
Rooster:What I sold it to you for.
Gizmo:It's a
Bam Bam:it's a different box.
Gizmo:I have
Bam Bam:a broker involved. You It's a
Gizmo:different box.
Pagoda:I bet $6.90.
Gizmo:And he finishes here saying, I'd love to try one of these Partagas cigars, but a hundred and $10 seems completely nuts to me. Then Lizard Greg who prompted that question starting the quest yeah. This the discussion about selling to friends. He said, I'm glad the selling to friends question sparked such an interesting debate. It was a ton of fun to listen to.
Gizmo:I wish Pooba was there for it, though.
Bam Bam:Oh, no. I don't. Also I do.
Gizmo:Also I do too. Also, if the lizard of the week prize is a sweatshirt, I'm a two XL. Did I hear senator question why the Monte Cristo Humidor in the festival auction had a fleur de lis on it? The same fleur de lis that's in the middle of the money band and on every logo of every box. Maybe he was blinded by all of the yellow, but but for a moment, I thought it might have been a question from Bam.
Bam Bam:Thank you.
Gizmo:This one's a good one too.
Bam Bam:Thank God for my AI image.
Gizmo:You have a new AI image right here.
Bam Bam:Uh-huh.
Gizmo:This one's from lizard Enrique. He always sends us a great email. He says, lizards, Bam deserves credit for for Shit. For his relentless ability to create content for this podcast. Most recently for his robber baron philosophy of profiteering off of cigars he would purchase from a fellow lizard after the fundador's reselling caper of 2025.
Bam Bam:That. Robber
Gizmo:baron. He deserves his flowers for always walking into the manhole. What a complete legend.
Bam Bam:Let's
Gizmo:see. I've also taken the liberty of using AI to develop this image of Bam with his list of rules. Great episode this week as always, lizard Enrique. And here is Bam Bam Boys with the 10 Bam Bam manments.
Bam Bam:Oh my lord.
Pagoda:Which one do you which one do you prefer?
Bam Bam:Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna.
Gizmo:No. It's an old man in the desert with cigar in his mouth.
Pagoda:That guy looks Arabic. There 10 There are Arab Christians out there.
Gizmo:Bam Bam manments.
Bam Bam:He's got a little bit of gray.
Pagoda:I don't know. It.
Senator:Take it. What's the correct term for the thing on his head?
Bam Bam:Oh, I don't know what that that's
Senator:The turban?
Pagoda:No. Not a turban. That's the Arabic whatever It's
Gizmo:a hair covering.
Bam Bam:It's a babushka. No. Hijab what do you call that? Hijab is what the ladies wear. I don't know what that
Gizmo:male version of that.
Bam Bam:They don't wear them. That's
Rooster:It's like he's like a saint. Yes. He's a priestly figure.
Bam Bam:Bam Bam Bam is definitely not a saint. So I figured you might like- How dare you? I figured
Gizmo:you might like this one better than your other AI image.
Pagoda:I don't know.
Gizmo:That's a little more holy.
Pagoda:I can him and a camel right there. Correct.
Gizmo:Well, he gave you your flowers, Bam. Yeah. I love it. So take them. Alright.
Gizmo:Finally on this issue.
Bam Bam:Sorry. Can
Senator:I quickly go back to the listener that mentioned the Monty episode? That was actually a really great flag. It is amazing. I mean, first of all, when I made that comment, no one in the room corrected me to say realize it. That there's a fleur de lis in the center of every Monty band.
Senator:I'll be honest. I to this until this listener's email, I had never recognized that that was a fleur de lis in the center of the band. Wow.
Gizmo:Neither did I. None of What's funny is when I saw that email, obviously I had been in the episode and edited it, I didn't even remember or think about the fact that you had said that. Like, didn't even flag for me that that was the case, so I'm right there with you.
Bam Bam:That's a great email.
Gizmo:It happens. And finishing up on on the selling to friends, this one's from Blizzard John. He said, I love the intra lizard debate at the episode's end. I tend to agree with Giz that both time and intent are key. Correct.
Gizmo:Given that Bam did not originally intend to resell the box and several years had gone by, it absolves him of any guilt in my courtroom.
Bam Bam:Lizard of the week.
Gizmo:Nor nor do I think he should have to give up any money he might make on the resale. It's just my 2¢. Great episode per usual.
Senator:2¢ is correct.
Bam Bam:Good 2¢.
Pagoda:Ridiculous. Well, finally, have a capitalist over here.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Before we get to our ratings, it's time to do one more email. This lizard is going to be our lizard of the week. This one is lizard Bill. He says, hello there, lizards.
Gizmo:First off, congratulations on surpassing episode one hundred and 70 We
Senator:have to go back to that last
Bam Bam:No. We don't.
Senator:I'm sorry. This whole notion at the time at which someone bought the box in Bam's case, he didn't know that he was gonna sell it. That's correct. No one could know that the prices of these cigars would explode the way they have.
Bam Bam:Oh, we knew.
Senator:But once No. We did not, though. If we did, we'd all have five towers. And so given that, I'm sorry, as soon as then you're operating in, the reality of the situation, which is, woah, now this box that I bought is worth three, four times what I bought it for, your options are, do I sell it at a profit, or do I go back to my friend who very graciously sourced this for me, and now I'm looking to just move it, and offer him an opportunity to buy it back at the price he did, or say, Actually, I feel a little bad about this. Thought I wanted the box, I don't anymore.
Senator:If we sell it, do you want the proceeds? Do you want to split it? The fact that that conversation doesn't happen, I think, is the problem. So I I think it's ridiculous to suggest at that time we didn't know. We know now.
Senator:And what do
Bam Bam:you do about it? Are you are you done? Are you done?
Pagoda:No. You just split the profit.
Rooster:No. Can I can I add add to that?
Bam Bam:$980.
Rooster:I'm just saying I should have the first right of refusal.
Senator:For sure.
Rooster:That's that's all
Gizmo:I have.
Rooster:Let me
Gizmo:just say for everybody
Pagoda:in this room At the same price you gave it at.
Gizmo:And for the lizards and for the lizards in the email, the box that Bam is selling, and I confirm this to Rooster with the box code It was is not the
Pagoda:same box.
Gizmo:It's not his box. Correct. So the foundation of the argument is accurate. It sounds Sounds
Rooster:a bit shady.
Bam Bam:It's a baseless it's a baseless argument.
Gizmo:Bam, I appreciate the profit you're sharing with me on
Bam Bam:the Fox, by the
Pagoda:You got it.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time now to move to the final email of our evening and this email from Lizard Bill. He's gonna be our lizard of the week. Every week, we give away lizard of the week, of course, boys. And all of these emails, of course, were eligible.
Gizmo:But tonight, Lizard Bill is the winner. He says, hello there, lizards. First off, congratulations on surpassing episode 175. It's crazy to think how many years have already passed. It really feels like just a few weeks ago when I stumbled upon your podcast because Giz and I met on a Discord.
Gizmo:I have a question and suggestion. Has the idea of adding box codes and years to the ratings archive ever been discussed? As we all know with Cuban cigars, the code and gear are almost as important as the marca and vitola itself. I'm sure a lot of people are like me and try to hunt down well reviewed cigars and to have a frame of reference of a specific boxer year and the factory combination, e g, the famous lub 14 to either seek or avoid might prove very beneficial when going back through the archive. It could also provide a useful reference for what is ready to roll right now and what might need to sit and marinate for a little while based on review, especially if when previously reviewed cigars getting revisited like we're doing with the Redux on some cigars.
Gizmo:Two weeks ago, we did the punch punch punch. Are from the same box as the original review or not? Just some food for thought. Again, congratulations on the success of the pod. It makes Tuesday mornings one of the more palatable mornings at work for me.
Gizmo:My only complaint is that I wish it were two or more times a week instead of one. Take care, my friends, and here's to many more years and many more episodes to come. Cheers, lizard Bill. Wow. Great email.
Bam Bam:Are you gonna get on that? I knew
Gizmo:it was coming.
Bam Bam:That's a workload issue.
Gizmo:I saw this email. Was like, this is definitely some work for me with 180 episodes under our belt.
Bam Bam:It's a
Rooster:bit Before you begin, I have an idea about, you know, gifting the lizard of the week. You should get a fundy from my box.
Bam Bam:Bad ass. Well, funny thing. I'm like smoking through that box. I got like.
Gizmo:He's not selling it, though.
Bam Bam:That box I kept.
Gizmo:It's for personal consumption only.
Rooster:Correct. He sold that box long time ago.
Bam Bam:Oh, no. No. I stared at it this evening before I came here.
Gizmo:So, yeah, I mean, what do you guys think about adding codes? Do you think that that's something that we should do? You know, the workload,
Chef Ricky:I think in the tequila mezcal world, lot numbers are important. So when you're able to source tequila or mezcal, most mezcals have it, especially any any that we recommend and most tequilas have it as well, but not all. I do think it's an important factor.
Bam Bam:I have a question, though. Does the average tequila or mezcal buyer actually go and
Chef Ricky:The average? No. Nope. The average, no, but I think if there's somebody that is an aficionado just like the person who's writing this about the cigars
Senator:And you.
Bam Bam:Yes. It's rare, but in the world of cigars, it kind of makes sense.
Rooster:Sure.
Senator:Yeah. I'm sorry. I feel like we've talked about box codes a number of times, and I think in the early days of our podcast, I think we were really obsessive about box codes, and I thought we got to a place where we got away from a lot of that. And my experience has been mean, you know, we've had Cuban cigars with great box codes that have not performed well, that have even had construction issues, and we sit there surprised.
Bam Bam:Not the Lub 14.
Senator:That that's an exception. It's an anomaly. But I'm at a place where I really don't care that much about box codes anymore. To me personally, that wouldn't provide a whole lot of value. I don't, in any way at this point, chase certain box codes.
Senator:To me, it's kind of luck of the draw, and recent runs, the box code doesn't really seem to matter. You're you're almost guaranteed
Bam Bam:They've all been great.
Rooster:Yeah. A well constructed cigar.
Gizmo:I think the difference now versus then, and I'm saying now in the twenty twenties versus prior to that, you know, when you had a great box coat or a great cigar coming out of this specific factory at a specific time, there was an outlier potential or an element of a potential greatness when the rest of the run around that time wasn't great. Especially when you talk about mother factories versus provincials, etcetera, which is why the factory code document is so powerful for people buying on Bon Roberts, etcetera, going back and buying stuff in time.
Senator:Also though, keep in mind, we've talked about some of the most highly regarded Cuban cigars are actually only rolled at provincials.
Gizmo:That's right. So that's where now I agree with you, and I'm the guy that put that document together, right?
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:I agree that now I'm not even as focused on box coats because the stuff recently has been so good over the last five years that, you know, you're getting anything 21, you know, and newer, everything's smoking great. I mean, production is lower. The quality has improved overall. I don't think anybody out there buying Cuban cigars today is going to say that a provincial cigar is smoking poorer generally than what you're getting out of a mother factory.
Bam Bam:I
Gizmo:think it's just different. I don't disagree with Lizard Bill here that that earlier stuff to to Ricky's point, you know, that stuff that we were smoking earlier on that has a lot of age on it, adding factory codes. But some of the stuff now, I just don't think it's as relevant as it used to be.
Bam Bam:There is something to getting a Mother Factory code on your box that you buy. There's something interesting. You see that. It's a different experience when you buy it and you look at it, but then you do forget about it after a while. It's not really effective.
Bam Bam:I don't
Senator:know if it's a different experience. Think, you know, your mind is kind of trained to think that that's gonna be better in
Bam Bam:some way. A better experience.
Senator:And I think Gizmo's point is a really good one. I mean, I mentioned our evolution as a group. We went from being obsessive about these codes to now feeling like they're not as important. Mhmm. Yeah.
Senator:And you think about, you know, when we started this podcast, a lot of the boxes that we were getting at that time were pre 2020. Yeah. And when they did actually mean more, and now, you know, there's more parity in kind of the construction across factories and that's a that's a good thing for all cigars.
Gizmo:Absolutely. And they're not trying to bum rush as many cigars out of Cuba as they used to.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:You know, they're making a significantly lower percentage of cigars by volume than they used to make Yeah. Five or ten years ago. I don't think that's ever gonna go back up. There's a bunch of reasons why, but it's just things have changed.
Senator:And I also think, you know, to my earlier point around price point, when we were talking about years ago when box codes mattered, I mean, this is when you were buying Cuban cigars for 8 to $12.15 at most dollars a stick, and the expectations around quality at $8 a stick are certainly different than the expectations at $30.40 dollars a stick. And I think even Cuba has had to reconcile with the simple fact that at these higher price points they just keep increasing, and and that expectation is now much higher. They know people are not going to be buying Cuban cigars at $20.30, $40.50, a hundred dollars a stick Mhmm. If you can't get a well constructed cigar.
Bam Bam:Regardless of where it's made.
Senator:Where I think we were all more forgiving. I mean, when we were smoking Cubans years ago, they were cheaper than New World cigars, and so we were way more forgiving where if a third of the box was tightly constructed, a little frustrating, and two thirds were great at that price, we weren't all that But now at this price, it's a whole different ballgame.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:And to your point, we're just experiencing that most of the stuff that we're getting with newer codes has been smoking great. Correct. I I can't tell you the last time that I've really fought with a box of Cuban cigars
Bam Bam:That's true.
Gizmo:Made in twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four.
Rooster:And how are you going to source these box codes? I mean, as it is, they're not even shipping them to us. So the only way you can find them is either on Bond Roberts or the Facebook groups. Private sellers. Right.
Rooster:Which is hard.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:It's tough. The whole dynamic has changed. By the way, coming out of Cuba, I've heard from a few different sources that the whole box code thing is changing and going away, which comes to the question I get a lot as to why codes haven't changed in over three years.
Bam Bam:Well, they're changing soon. I
Gizmo:think they're moving away from actually marking the boxes with codes, and they may just move to dates or some sort of NFC technology. So I think that's why they've hesitated changing is because that whole system is gonna be either going away or changing entirely. Because obviously, I get a lot of emails like, hey, why haven't the codes been updated? And it's simply because the codes haven't been updated. And we've asked the
Bam Bam:last two times we were there.
Gizmo:We ask every single time. I ask every single person that matters at any of these factories or in the industry there when we go to Cuba. Yep. What's going on? And nothing's changed.
Gizmo:So it is what it is. Alright, boys. We're coming to the end of our evening tonight with both the Santiago eight years aged and the 11 years aged and the Cohiba Behike 58. What is everybody thinking about our cigar, about the two pairings? Give me your your summary judgment before we move into the specific ratings.
Bam Bam:I can't get enough of this 11. Right now, it's drinking so good. It's delicious. It's kind of overtaken the cigar for me. It's probably the best thing that I've experienced tonight.
Rooster:And the best part about this cigar is the last quarter inch.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it's good.
Senator:Are you serious? Because I actually feel that way.
Gizmo:Yeah, good. I'm loving the end.
Rooster:Last quarter inch is
Bam Bam:the whole Totally agree.
Rooster:Whole cigar.
Bam Bam:Totally agree.
Senator:For me, the last quarter inch, and it's really bizarre because the last inch is different. The last quarter inch marries together the richer, medium bodied flavor notes that I started to get in the final third with that like butteriness of the first two thirds of the cigar into something that like if this were all the way through, I would have enjoyed a whole lot more. So I I Rooster's spot on. For me, this is easily the best part of the cigar, and it's just odd because I don't know that I've ever smoked a cigar and it needed to get to the final quarter of an inch to say, wow, this is the best part.
Rooster:Like, finally, it's there.
Bam Bam:Have to say, chef, you have to say the retro right now is outstanding.
Chef Ricky:Yep. Just piggybacking off of Senator there with everything kind of enhancing and that butteriness still being present, but not for me, it's all toasty, brown butter, nutty, Savory. It's it's it's it's yeah. Mean The last the last more of this quarter inch. Oh,
Bam Bam:you're you're doing the fingernail move, see. I
Rooster:was gonna say the last $27 of the cigar is
Bam Bam:really tasty.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time to move into our first formal liquor rating tonight on the Santiago De Cuba, Eight years aged. Bam, bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:I'm at a firm seven. Seven? Yeah. I liked it. I can't say that I hated it.
Bam Bam:It was pretty smooth and easy to drink. I didn't get the heat that some of the guys in the room got. It just wasn't interesting enough for me compared to what I'm drinking now. Seven. Okay.
Bam Bam:Chef Ricky. I'm at an eight on the eight.
Chef Ricky:I I liked it. I thought it was a little brighter than the eleven. I didn't mind the heat. I I like that a little bit. Yeah.
Chef Ricky:I think it was a delicious rum, delivered well, paired well with the cigar. I'm at an eight.
Gizmo:Okay. Pagoda? I'm at
Pagoda:an eight as well. I think for me it was, you know, now that I'm comparing between the eight and the 11, there was something I really enjoyed about the eight in the sense that it was lighter, a little more, you know, more reminiscent of the lighter rums in terms of, I like the seven, I like the Havana Seven, I like the Flodo Cana seven. Closer to that thing. The issue was that I did feel the heat, and otherwise I would have rated it even slightly higher,
Bam Bam:Higher than an eight?
Pagoda:Yeah. It was an eight for me. I enjoyed it.
Bam Bam:You
Gizmo:want that Twilight's on So for me, it's also an eight. I really like Santiago eight.
Bam Bam:Alright.
Gizmo:Thought it was very good. I don't think it's the best of Cuban rum. I don't think it's certainly the best of the Santiago offering from Cuba, but I thought it was very, very good. I loved it from the first sip. I think it's a versatile spirit.
Gizmo:I think it could work with a lot of different types of cigars inside Cuba and outside Cuba. Certainly, it's not as refined as the 11, which I think all of our ratings will reflect, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But I'm very happy with this rum tonight. So it's an eight for me. Listen, at $29, I I don't think that's a bad price.
Rooster:I don't
Gizmo:think that's a bad price.
Bam Bam:Let me ask you a question. If you're if you're at the Parquet Central and you've got a choice between the eight and the 11, you're gonna go to the eight?
Gizmo:No. I'd probably go to the 11, and my rating
Bam Bam:will reflect that.
Chef Ricky:Because eleven is probably gonna be rated higher.
Pagoda:Okay. Alright. Same here.
Gizmo:Alright. Senator.
Senator:Yeah. So I I'm in lockstep with most. I'm at an eight. Unlike his, I did not enjoy this on the first sip. It took some time for me to appreciate this.
Senator:What I like about it is this is probably the driest in the Santiago line. That's It's entirety. Eight, eleven, 12, 20.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:And that's more my style, so I like that. You know, it's definitely lighter like Pagoda said. That's commensurate with every seven or eight year, you know, rum period. But I I also appreciated that at what is typically a lighter bodied rum at seven or eight years, it still has it has some more richness that a lot of others don't. Wow.
Senator:Honestly, this is a richer profile at eight years than Flor De Cano Seven Definitely. Than even Havana Seven. Havana Seven is more complex, BAM. That's where I agree
Bam Bam:with you. But the Flor de Cano for me is a much more robust experience than this and much just my opinion.
Senator:I think because you can probably Wow. Appreciate more flavor notes
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Senator:Which is where I'm going with complexity. So I agree with you there. On complexity, at the seven, eight year category, I would take Havana Seven Hakanya. Oh yeah. And I've rated both of those higher than
Bam Bam:Hakanya. Correct.
Pagoda:In fact, we rated it a 10 I think.
Bam Bam:Correct. Correct.
Senator:So I I think for me that's why I'm comfortable on eight. I don't have a problem with your seven. I I definitely debated between
Pagoda:the Sure. Same here. Sure.
Senator:Did. But what edged it to the eight for me is I like a drier flavor profile, and I was thrilled to finally find something in the Santiago line that is much drier than most. And and I think it it pairs well with this cigar. I think it would pair well with a very broad range of cigars. I think it's versatile.
Senator:So, you know, at its very accessible price point, I think it's a really solid rum and and a recommend.
Bam Bam:Alright.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. So that puts the formal liquor rating tonight on the Santiago De Cuba, Eight Years aged at 7.8.
Bam Bam:Well, I think that's pretty fair.
Gizmo:I agree. It's a good score. And now it's time to move into the eleven years aged Santiago De Cuba rum.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Bam bam,
Rooster:you're up again.
Bam Bam:I'm at a firm nine. On this.
Gizmo:You're jumping two points.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I love the richness of this. There's a touch of sweetness that I didn't get in the eight. It's a more complex experience. There's more body to this than the eight.
Bam Bam:And as I drink more and more of it, and it's not because I'm inebriated, it gives me it gives me more of a richer experience.
Senator:If you have to say that.
Bam Bam:I might be. For any lizard out there,
Gizmo:the email is hello@loungelizardspod.com.Dotnet.com.
Bam Bam:I'm right there with you, buddy. Yeah. I'm at a nine. I I love this. Early on, you know, both weren't tasting what I remember it to be, but as I drink more and more of this, I I I remember why I love this.
Bam Bam:I'm at a nine.
Senator:You remember why you love this. Isn't this bizarre? We both had from this bottle I know. A week ago
Bam Bam:I know.
Senator:And we both hated it. Dude, totally different. For context, Bam literally was so disappointed.
Bam Bam:I was really fucking disappointed with He
Senator:said to Lizard Henry, I'll trade you one bottle of Santago 11 for two bottles Vanna I thought Vanna seven.
Bam Bam:Seven. I was ready to do that deal.
Senator:And I honestly I I had one pour of it, and I I didn't even want another. It was sweet, so it's wild how this has changed.
Bam Bam:It's just more as I drink it more, you kinda get settled in your palate, and for me, the adjustment was perfect for tonight. Nine. Alright, Chef Ricky. I'm also at a nine.
Chef Ricky:Here with the Santiago 11, I thought it presented more fruit forward rather than vanilla. I thought it was a lot more complex and rounder in flavor, fuller in flavor. Didn't have the heat or the brightness of the of the eight, but it still delivered because for me, the profile changed from vanilla to bright fruit. It delivered some brightness and some, you know, more vibrant notes that I I enjoyed. So, yeah, for me, it's a nine, and I still think it you know, I mean, the eight at 29 was a bargain.
Chef Ricky:The 11 at double the price is still a bargain. I'd happily stock both of these rums.
Gizmo:All right. Pagoda?
Pagoda:It's a nine for me, and I think, you know, it's really interesting. Like, you go through the eight, and then you go through the 11. The 11 did provide a little bit of sweetness, which I think I was seeking. I don't know whether it was because of the cigar or whatever the experience I was feeling. I really enjoyed the way it was delivering on the palate.
Pagoda:It was very smooth in its own right, and no harshness at all. I just drank very smooth and a bit sweeter. Just enjoyed it a lot more, more than the eight. So it's a nine for me.
Gizmo:Yeah. So it's also a nine for me. I think this is a step up from the Santiago eight. I think it's a step down from the 20. I'm curious how I would feel about the 12 under the microscope here.
Gizmo:I I just love the spirit. It drinks so easily. It drinks so smooth. It pairs great with cigars. I've enjoyed it from the first moment I ever had it in Cuba many, many moons ago.
Gizmo:Tonight, under the microscope, I think it performed very, very well. It was definitely an elevated experience versus the 8, and at $59 I think it's just, I think it's a great bargain for an eleven years aged rum. You know, I really love it.
Bam Bam:We're just so used to buying that Havana Club seven.
Gizmo:I know, the Havana Club seven's great. But really enjoyed this spirit tonight, so it's a nine for
Bam Bam:me.
Senator:Senator. Yeah, so it's wild for me. It's also a nine, and I say wild because I've had this many times, and it's never been a nine for me until this bottle tonight.
Bam Bam:We've had a lot of interesting nights with this bottle.
Senator:Yeah, it's just strange. I've always found it to be extremely sweet. I've never really understood. And you know, when you're in Havana, a lot of people love Santiago Eleven. At this point, I'm gonna bring like a decanter with me to Cuba just to decant this because that's the only thing that has happened here.
Senator:Yeah. We opened this a week ago.
Bam Bam:So that's exactly right.
Senator:And it somehow was opening up that overly sweet rum taste is gone into something that's more refined and Disappates nicely. Mhmm. You're able to pull out more distinct flavor notes. But I'm I'm very glad that I had this experience because I could this is for me has always been the most polarizing rum in that I've debated plenty of times. I mean
Gizmo:You and I had a serious argument over eleven versus twelve. If you remember in Pinar Del Rio, we had a major argument of about eleven versus twelve.
Bam Bam:I still
Senator:stand by.
Chef Ricky:You didn't find any reason
Bam Bam:for arguing. Sidelines for that one.
Gizmo:I still stand by. Again, for my my tank top on.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Senator:Well, that was part of
Gizmo:the argument.
Bam Bam:That's always part of the argument.
Senator:But I still stand by. I mean, for my palate, you know, the 12 is drier. That's why the eight was a revelation for me in the sense that that's the driest I've had in the line, and it's nice to see that that's kinda where this all comes from. And so like that's that's there and with more time I mean, truly, as you go up the line well, I guess the 12 is what I can't explain. Why the 12 is drier than eleven?
Bam Bam:Because the
Senator:20 is sweeter than all of these.
Bam Bam:That makes sense. It's
Senator:complex in flavor that like it helps balance out that sweetness in a good way. So I'm just glad. It's hopefully added something to my Cuban rum repertoire that like I would actually order this in Havana where wherever we go, we're always just drinking really Havana Club. So it's definitely a strong nine and it's a great rum. I really have not one complaint.
Chef Ricky:I think that the cantering has a lot to do with it, but I think maybe something we're not talking about is really how the cigar paired with the rum and maybe how the cigar may have influenced the flavor just a bit. You know, the butteriness of that of the bajique coconut, coconut. Yeah. % like while the truck. Hey, listen, this is it's a Cuban cigar with a Cuban roe.
Chef Ricky:I mean, tropical fruits, you know, on the palate isn't a
Bam Bam:perfect fruit.
Gizmo:Technically, that's wet fruit.
Bam Bam:That's true. Correct. You motherfucker.
Gizmo:No. You're totally right, Ricky. And that puts the former liquor rating tonight on the 11 years age Santiago De Cuba rum at a nine point zero. So let's compare that to the other two. Of course, we just did the Santiago Eight, scored a 7.8.
Gizmo:And on episode 76 over a hundred episodes ago, we did the Santiago De Cuba Twenty Years that senator was just talking about rated a 10. So 7.8 for the eight, a nine point zero for the 11, and a 10 perfect score for the Santiago Twenty. Makes sense. So now it's time to try the 12 years aged Yeah. Santiago De Cuba the next time we
Chef Ricky:come back I wonder why they went from 11 to 12, maybe not do a 15.
Gizmo:We've always wondered that. We we've always talked about that. I don't understand why they do an eight, eleven, a 12, and a 20.
Bam Bam:You know, I had one glass of the 12. I can't comment enough on it. I need to have it again. I haven't I I can't remember.
Rooster:I mean, the
Senator:thing I give it credit for, you would think that that year wouldn't do anything of significance.
Bam Bam:In
Senator:the past, there's been a pretty stark difference in the two, which is why I think it's definitely worthwhile. I
Bam Bam:mean Agreed.
Senator:They clearly knew that extra year did something.
Gizmo:Sure. Alright, boys. Now it is time to move into the formal lizard rating tonight on the Cohiba Bihike 58, the biggest cigar we've ever done on this podcast, the most expensive retail price we've ever done on this podcast.
Bam Bam:You gotta put the price aside tonight, boys.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. You
Pagoda:have to. You almost have to
Bam Bam:do the
Chef Ricky:same thing. I think at most, you can knock at one point for the price.
Rooster:How can you do that?
Gizmo:$700. Unbelievable. All right, Rooster. Good luck. You are
Rooster:off. Here we go. So every Tuesday morning, almost everybody looks forward to a new episode that comes out. I cringe because I know the split wise is coming. I am
Gizmo:so glad that tomorrow there's gonna be
Rooster:a big fat zero in the split wise.
Bam Bam:So
Rooster:but but this cigar
Senator:That's because Bam picked it up.
Gizmo:Yeah. Bam Bam's buying. Correct. Our $4,900 night tonight.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Rooster:You can keep the Funda Dora.
Bam Bam:Done. Done.
Rooster:So this cigar, I mean, just on the light, it was so hard to tell for me at least that this even was a Behike. It was very fleeting, the notes that I was getting from this cigar, almost throughout the cigar, that it did not feel like a bejique should be. The flavor notes on the bejiques, it's got a lot more flavor, a lot more oomph. You taste that mediatiempo. That did not come through for me almost till the very end.
Rooster:Very end. I mean, I'm talking like a quarter inch of that cigar.
Bam Bam:Right there with you.
Rooster:Yeah. I mean, that's when it really got delicious.
Senator:I
Rooster:mean, that's what you want out of a 700 bejique to come throughout. From the beginning to the end, that should come through. And it did not for me. I had minor construction issue with that cigar. The flavor, I mean, it was buttery, like you all said, like buttery and salty.
Rooster:There was a little bit of a nutty walnut note that came through. I didn't quite get the tropical fruit thing happening.
Chef Ricky:Just in this corner.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I guess.
Rooster:So for all of those reasons, I kind of have to keep the price point into consideration. For a $700 cigar, it should just absolutely blow us away. And honestly, did not. So I'm at a 7.
Gizmo:Alright. Senator.
Senator:Oh, man. The entire night, I've been, like, one of the last
Bam Bam:to get to go, and now I get to
Senator:go early. I I had
Bam Bam:such strong opinions on everything else. Jesus. Hit the launch button now. Oh, boy.
Senator:This is It's hard. Really hard for me
Gizmo:It is
Senator:hard. Ironic this last quarter of an inch Bro. Is outstanding. I just relit the cigar at this point, and I've never I I really don't like the whole roach clip thing.
Bam Bam:Mhmm. I really
Senator:don't. Like, really don't. But, boy, I wish I had one right now. Like, this is spectacular in just this little quarter of an inch.
Bam Bam:It's incredible.
Gizmo:Senator is holding, quite literally out there for the listener, it's a stub, and so is Bam. I mean, it's less than half an inch.
Rooster:At the quarter inch mark, it's a solid 10.
Bam Bam:If this was the experience from the beginning, from inception down to this
Gizmo:point No doubt. Oh.
Bam Bam:And it's a shame. Man, I'm
Senator:I'm it's just hard because this was so easy before where there was nothing memorable about this cigar. It'd be so easy to give this a seven and just say, it was never offensive. There were some good qualities about it, but it's nothing that really impresses or knocks your socks off. It's nothing worth chasing or pursuing.
Bam Bam:Until you get to the bloody end.
Senator:Until you get to this quarter inch.
Chef Ricky:It's kinda late.
Senator:I am just it it's Yeah. Very late.
Pagoda:A lot of people would have put it
Senator:down by now. It's like operating on True. It's like operating on rooster time. Yeah. I mean, this is just I'm gonna round up, and I'm gonna give it an eight.
Senator:And the the reason I I just truly I can't I would not be able to fill up one hand in naming the number of cigars that I have gotten down to this point.
Gizmo:I don't know if I've ever seen you get far
Senator:this far do this. Like, this is not there's no cigar where you get this far into a stick. Your hands are burning that this is the best part of the experience. At that point, it's starting to get hot. The flavor's starting to get a
Chef Ricky:little bottled.
Bam Bam:Fingers are burning.
Senator:And, like, it's good enough that you may try to smoke it, but it's never the starfish. Gets delicious.
Rooster:Yeah. And you kinda wanna smoke the cigar upside down.
Bam Bam:Something
Pagoda:people do Light
Rooster:the wrong end first.
Pagoda:Well, Giz, you should have cut the other end.
Gizmo:I should have.
Pagoda:I should that way today. Pick one of the corners.
Bam Bam:Doesn't work that way, unfortunately. Right?
Senator:This is ridiculous right now. I just, man, I'm so sad that they couldn't produce this blend to deliver this experience all the
Rooster:way like the media tempo is at the end. They ran out. It a very short leaf, they just put it at the end.
Senator:Yeah. But the reasons I'll give it an eight, the construction I thought was actually excellent. I did not have any burn issues. The ash held on. No wrapper issues.
Senator:Nothing cracked. All the way through I thought it was great. The combustion for a 58 ring gauge cigar delivered the experience you expect. I feel like we've had a some bad luck recently with large ring gauge cigars where we've been complaining that we're not getting enough combustion. This definitely delivered that.
Senator:There was a point where when we weren't talking as much and all of us were smoking, the room was full of smoke. That's what you want to
Bam Bam:see with
Senator:a 58 ring gauge cigar. The flavor profile, you know, even the first two thirds, while milder than I would normally pursue, was still very pleasant. I mean, you shouldn't have to spend $700 to achieve those flavor notes. There's no doubt about that. And the final third is when it really finally hit its stride in just that quarter of an inch.
Senator:It is spectacular right now, and that's the only reason that I rounded up to the eight because there is now something memorable in this cigar.
Bam Bam:And he's actually using the kung fu fingernail hold right now.
Senator:I mean,
Bam Bam:this That chef has perfected.
Senator:Crazy.
Bam Bam:The kung fu grip. It's it's the fingernail grip.
Chef Ricky:Reminds you of your oh, yep. That's happened to me. Yep. So at this point, this is where I would normally say, I just want to eat the cigar because it gets so hard to hold, but it's so good that you kind of don't want to put it down. Correct.
Senator:So there is some merit in this cigar in that the last third I think very worthwhile. I just will always be disappointed that they couldn't have seen this all the way through. This would have been a 10 if this could have been our experience for the entirety of this cigar.
Chef Ricky:All I have to say, Senator, is that tonight you showed your heart.
Bam Bam:He was lying hard tonight. This is
Chef Ricky:the most sympathetic I've ever seen you.
Gizmo:So boys, for me, it's also an eight. I was debating between a seven and an eight, but that last half, especially the last third pushed me to an eight. There's no question about that. The construction on mine was great. The combustion was fantastic the whole way through, which is what you want from a cigar of this size.
Gizmo:Certainly, the size does factor in here. I will not be purchasing any of these cigars. I will probably not smoke one of these again unless it's gifted to me in some kind of way. But, you know, enjoyed the experience tonight. I enjoyed, you know, smoking this cigar with you guys.
Gizmo:We had a great conversation. It was certainly a robust conversation tonight. We're touching like two and a half hours here. Wow. But, you know, for the experience, it's definitely an eight for me.
Gizmo:The flavor was good, but it was very good in the second half of the cigar. It never touched greatness for me. At the end, maybe it did, you know, getting down into that last, you know, inch or so like Senator just waxed on. But it never touched greatness really for me. I I still think the Bahike 54 is the king of the Bahikes.
Gizmo:I will stand by that until they release another cigar that changes my mind. But out of the four, the Bahike 54 is the one. I wanted more the whole way through, certainly for this price point. And it you know, certainly, if this cigar, we had to go out and purchase it, we would have never reviewed it on this podcast. That never would have happened.
Gizmo:So we're very lucky to have been able to review it tonight. But at the price point, it's just a ridiculous, ridiculous value. It's unfortunate. But flavor wise, it was a a a good cigar. It was an eight.
Gizmo:It's still a recommend, but I would not encourage any of our listeners to run out and buy this immediately. It's right now, it's a good cigar. Just not a great I'm just a
Senator:can find the last quarter of an inch for $30.
Bam Bam:Correct. There you go. $27 according to Rooster.
Pagoda:Alright, Pagoda. You're up. It's a seven for me. I actually were between a six and a seven. Unfortunately for me, the construction By the way, overall the
Bam Bam:Hold on. Their It's course corrected beautifully, though.
Pagoda:It did. The few things I do have to mention.
Senator:His rapper had a huge crack.
Bam Bam:It's true.
Pagoda:It's true. My wrapper had a crack. It tunneled a bit. It did self correct after a while, but I had to touch it up quite a bit throughout the process. For a $700 cigar, I don't know whether I wanna be doing that, number one.
Pagoda:The other thing is the flavor profile for me was reasonably mild, although very pleasant because it leaves a pleasant, you know, flavor profile in your palate, which is something I really enjoy. There were moments which I really enjoyed when, I think when it came into the last third, I felt a little bit, it got a bit of the, you know, like I mentioned, the black salt. It's just something I've grown up with, I can, when I feel that, I really enjoy that. But on the other hand, the few merits of the cigar have been that the smoke output's been great. Overall, the feel's been great.
Pagoda:You know, you have a cigar like a bahique in your hand, you just feel better. It's one of those things where it makes you feel, hey, today I'm gonna be smoking a great cigar. This is fantastic. So there's something about it that does make you feel very good. But in terms of the overall, even leaving the price aside, I was thinking, let's assume it wasn't a Cohiba.
Pagoda:Let's assume it didn't have the price. I think I'd be closer to between a six and a seven. But having the good experiences, I think I'm running it up to a seven.
Gizmo:Alright. Chef Ricky.
Senator:Show your heart.
Gizmo:Show your heart, chef Ricky.
Chef Ricky:It was a little too late for an eight. Delivered a little too late for an eight. So I'm at a seven here. I thought Roosters rating was perfect. I thought we were all going to be on at sevens.
Chef Ricky:I can't wait for the freaking listener emails on this one. Yeah. You know, the seven hundred dollars price point is tough to digest without a doubt. But the flavor profile, while mild for most of the cigar, was still enjoyable. I had no construction issues.
Chef Ricky:Combustion was phenomenal on my cigar. We've been smoking for two and a half hours. You know, I put mine down maybe fifteen minutes ago. That last quarter inch was amazing. And, you know, I'm going to say that the size of the cigar has a lot to do with the flavor that it was delivering.
Chef Ricky:I just think so much tobacco being packed into that cigar that, you know, by the time it gets to a point where you could actually taste everything that tobacco is delivering, it's going to be at the very end, you know, and maybe that is is a reason not to be smoking cigars of this size. So I think at the very least for Cohiba, you know, use this as a reason to not make cigars of this size or any larger for that matter and stick to the fifty four is because that is a phenomenal experience and much better. So yeah, I would I think seven is good. I think, you know, if we you know, if we put price pricing into the into the equation here, we'd probably be a lot lower.
Gizmo:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Bam Bam:So I agree.
Gizmo:All right,
Bam Bam:Bam. So, you know, I'm not going to give this cigar the credit that it deserves from the point of view of construction. It was made very well, like many other cigars in the Habano's catalog. The combustion was great, like many other cigars in Habano's catalog. It's disappointing that it took so much time to get to the point of really enjoying the cigar, not factoring in price because this cigar was gifted to us very generously.
Bam Bam:So I'm not even factoring that in, but I'm at a firm seven because of that experience. It wasn't memorable the first two thirds until literally, like, everyone in the room said, I got down to the that last inch. And as I got deeper and deeper, it got better and better at that last half inch. It's not a mark of an incredible cigar at that price point from the point of view of the retailer. It doesn't equate.
Bam Bam:So I'm at a firm seven.
Gizmo:Alright. Yeah. That puts the formal lizard rating tonight, boys, on the Cohiba Bihike 58 at a 7.3. Yeah. And I think that's an appropriate score for the cigar and the experience we all had tonight.
Gizmo:You know, I do wonder, and something that chef Ricky just said about the size of the cigar. You know, there was the the real rumor, the truth, that years ago Cohiba was trying to you know, Habanos was trying to push out this 58 ring gauge Cohiba cigar, and they shelved it because it wasn't delivering what they expected from the Cohiba mark, you know, the marker. I'm feeling, to your point, Chef Ricky, and I think what we've just said with the 7.3 rating tonight, that we've reached the point of diminishing returns here on the size of the cigar. You know, at at a 58 by seven inch cigar, you have put yourself in a position where you're trying to demand more price for the tobacco, the bigger cigar, reach a market that likes these size cigars. But at the end of the day, it is an outlier.
Gizmo:It's different. It's not in line with what Cohiba is. It's not really in line with what Bijike is.
Bam Bam:You have to question, do they are they smoking the cigar? Are they experiencing what we're experiencing? Do they factor in any of this in the blending decisions?
Pagoda:Do they come up with the price?
Bam Bam:Forget about the price, just smoke the cigar and experience it and understand that it's that last third that actually matters in this particular cigar.
Gizmo:Yeah. I
Senator:mean, I think, you know, if what Gizmo is saying is is the case, I mean, clearly they are smoking it, they must have recognized that this is a pretty big departure from
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Senator:The Marca and the Bahike line. But for whatever reason, they decided to just pump this cigar.
Gizmo:Close enough for them to solve the marketing goals, the pricing goals that they were trying to reach with this cigar.
Senator:I just think on the ring gauge, the thing that's funny to me, if you think about all of us had a transformational experience in the final quarter of
Bam Bam:an What
Senator:happened at that point? The cigar effectively became like a pyramid or a bellicose.
Gizmo:That's true.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, truly, it was like the end of my cigar had, you know, kind of collapsed a little bit in a good way. And it's like the flavor delivery could be more concentrated instead of this giant 58 ring gauge
Bam Bam:at that I
Senator:wish they would have made a shorter version of this that was some kind of pyramid or bellicose. I think would have delivered a much better experience.
Gizmo:Agreed. Like the Atabae, the prototype that we've all tasted.
Bam Bam:Thank you. That is Exactly right.
Gizmo:In the pipeline for Cohiba, the 59 ring gauge.
Bam Bam:Delicious from beginning to end.
Gizmo:It's a great cigar.
Senator:But exactly that.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That flavor
Chef Ricky:has to filter through all of that tobacco.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's a lot of tobacco there.
Senator:The last two things I just want to say for the listener, because there will definitely be emails after this rating. This I think and I you know, we've debated this before. I've actually argued with some lizards here who say, Oh, price shouldn't matter that much in the rating. I firmly believe price should matter. This cigar is at such an outrageous price point that I think if any of us were to just truly factor in price like we would any cigar, this would be like a three.
Gizmo:Agreed. I agree. Agreed.
Senator:So I wanna be clear to the listener that this is the exception to the rating rule.
Bam Bam:That's that
Senator:had we factored in price, there is no cigar in the world that should be $700. This cigar was so far from delivering an experience that is memorable all the way through that we would even entertain the thought of legitimizing such a stupid price point. That's not the case here, so I just wanna take that off the table, and have every listener hear and understand that we recognize that this is in no way deserving, even of
Bam Bam:half of
Senator:the price of this cigar.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Rooster:It's outrageous. I mean, fact that not only is this a Cohiba, it's their flagship off Cohiba brand.
Bam Bam:That's true. Right now it is.
Gizmo:This is their highest priced cigar
Bam Bam:right now.
Rooster:Is the cigar that, you know, off the Cohiba line. It's kinda like the Ferrari Yeah. Of Italian car. I mean, it's
Bam Bam:If if it was a three act play and the first third was what we experienced in the first two thirds, the second third Right. Ramped up in richness and body.
Rooster:At half of that cigar delivered what the quarter inch did
Gizmo:That's it rating would have been much higher.
Bam Bam:I agree.
Rooster:And that's even, like, without, you know,
Bam Bam:considering agree.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. This being the fifteenth anniversary celebration of Bajike at this price point, at this ring gauge, it should have been better.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Hands down. And and well said senator Mhmm. On the price factor. I mean, this is certainly not a cigar that we purchased. You know, we were gifted these cigars for review.
Gizmo:So factoring that in, I still think a 7.3 is a fair score here for what we experienced in the room tonight, but the cigar should have been better. Yeah.
Senator:Think for the listener, that 7.3 is if we were to put price aside, our experience was a 7.3.
Bam Bam:And we did that.
Senator:And that is just a mild recommend. Exactly. It tells you everything
Gizmo:you to touch over recommend.
Bam Bam:Exactly. Exactly.
Senator:It tells you everything you need know about this cigar.
Bam Bam:It's not
Senator:a great cigar. It had the tiniest moment of greatness, and the rest of it was underwhelming. Right.
Pagoda:I'd rather have 30 D4s.
Bam Bam:And someone mentioned maybe we should age this cigar. Who knows what the aging process would have done, but you bring you Well, fact that the last
Gizmo:quarter inch was the best part. It shows you that
Bam Bam:you bringing down the humidity on this
Gizmo:It helped
Bam Bam:a the experience was completely different than what I
Gizmo:had before. It helped a lot. Absolutely. So boys, let's compare this to the other Cohibas we've done on the pod before we get out of here tonight. We'll start with the Cohiba Siglo II scored an eight point zero.
Gizmo:The Cohiba Lancero scored a 9.6. The Cohiba Pyramidis Extra scored a 9.4. Of course, as we mentioned, we did the Cohiba Bihike 54 with Danilo on episode. We did an interview with him. We did not rate that.
Gizmo:Then we did the Cohiba Sigua five scored a 9.2. New Year's Eve last year, we did the Esplendidos, which was five years age, scored a 10, a perfect cigar. And on episode 174, six weeks ago, we did the Siglo six, which scored a nine point zero. So this at a 7.3 is certainly the lowest that we have seen from Cohiba on the podcast tonight. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:A great night tonight. We and certainly a long episode. We're almost close to three hours here with this monster cigar. We went through a lot of content, a lot of emails. We, of course, have to thank all of our listeners for writing us.
Gizmo:We really appreciate it. Congratulations to Lizard Bill again for winning lizard of the week. We once again have to thank our friend Danilo, the production manager at Cohiba in Havana
Bam Bam:We love
Gizmo:you, Dan. For providing us with these cigars. We really appreciate it. It's so kind. And what I love about Danilo is he looks for our honesty.
Gizmo:He's not looking for us to, you know, wax poetic and and and be dishonest. He likes the honesty. So I hope he I hope he appreciates our commentary tonight. And, of course, we have to thank our sponsor, Fabrica Five. They're a great partner to us.
Gizmo:Try some of their cigars. We really appreciate you supporting the people who support us. One more time, boys. Let's go through our ratings tonight. We had the eight years aged Santiago De Cuba rum at a 7.8, the 11 years aged Santiago De Cuba rum at a nine point zero.
Gizmo:And finally, the Cohiba Bihike 58 scored a 7.3. A great night, boys. Great conversation. We went through a lot of stuff, and, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode.
Gizmo:Thanks for joining us. You could find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardsp0d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us.
Gizmo:Hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.