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Best Beginnings is the podcast for everyone working in or caring about the early years. Hosted by George Looker, CEO of Babyzone, each episode brings together leading researchers, clinicians, practitioners, policymakers and parents to explore the evidence, ideas and innovations shaping how we support children and families in the UK.
From infant mental health and attachment to workforce challenges and systems change, Best Beginnings goes beyond the headlines to have the conversations that matter most in early childhood.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Best Beginnings is brought to you by Babyzone, a national charity operating free, evidence-based family hubs across England for families with children aged 0–5.
00:00:00:06 - 00:00:10:20
Unknown
now I do a lot of science experiments, but when I started again, I was a parent with young kids and we were doing all the activities people will doing like again, learning numbers, letters, all that kind of stuff.
00:00:10:23 - 00:00:13:23
Unknown
But in fact, I was just again, not an educator.
00:00:13:23 - 00:00:16:15
Unknown
And I remember making lots of mistakes.
00:00:16:20 - 00:00:28:23
Unknown
it's difficult to be a good parent from a perspective that you need to make your kids do things that they don't like.
00:00:29:00 - 00:00:59:11
Unknown
By the time a child tends to, 80% of their brain architecture is already in place. The connections that shape how they learn, how they regulate emotions and how they form relationships. Most of that is built before they can even speak in sentences. And yet, as a society, we invest the least in the years that matter most. 1 in 4 children start school without the skills they need to thrive, not because their parents failed them, but because the system did what we at Baby Zone had.
00:00:59:12 - 00:01:33:08
Unknown
Learn from over 86,000 family visits. Is this the early years, at a time when many parents feel unsure or overwhelmed, even when things are going well? It doesn't always feel easy, but when families have the right support through play, through evidence, informed guidance, through someone, simply saying what your child is doing is completely normal. Everything changes. I'm George and this is Best Beginnings, a podcast brought to you by BBC about what happens in the first five years of life and why it shapes everything that comes after.
00:01:33:10 - 00:01:58:16
Unknown
Each week, I talk to the people who are thinking most deeply about how to give every child the best possible start. Researchers, practitioners, parents, and policymakers not to lecture you about what you should be doing, but to explore together about what actually works and what gets in the way. Babies. Then we see hundreds of families every week. And one of the things we hear most is often quite quietly.
00:01:58:18 - 00:02:20:07
Unknown
I don't really know how to play with my child, and it's not a lack of love. It's not a lack of time. It's a lack of confidence. A feeling that real learning requires expertise, equipment or training that they don't necessarily have. My guest today has spent a decade dismantling that myth. Sergei Oven is the founder of The Toddler, one of the most followed play based learning platforms in the world.
00:02:20:11 - 00:02:44:16
Unknown
With over 10 million followers across social media and more than 3 billion YouTube views. His book has been translated into more than seven languages, and his content is used in classrooms worldwide, including by the Australian government. And he's done all of it without a science degree, with a master's in economics and a kitchen cupboard. Grew up in Latvia and built walls with his dad, literally mixing and laying bricks.
00:02:44:22 - 00:03:12:21
Unknown
And now lives in London with his wife and two sons. He started the D&D lab in 2015 because his wife suggested what he was doing should be put onto Instagram. Within 12 months, he had a million followers. The first viral video was a Skittles experiment. The rest, they say, is history. What makes Sergei's work so important for families that babies and works with is this it proves you don't need to be a scientist or all of the right things, or have the right space.
00:03:12:23 - 00:03:28:16
Unknown
All you need is curiosity. And if you're willing to sit on the floor and find out what happens alongside your child, have you ever reached your phone because you can't think of what else to do with your three year old? Then this conversation is for you. Sergei, thank you and welcome to this beginnings.
00:03:28:18 - 00:03:30:08
Unknown
Thank you for having me.
00:03:30:10 - 00:03:47:04
Unknown
We'll start at the beginning. And your origin story, if that's okay. And I mentioned your upbringing in Latvia and said working with your dad, mixing cement, using your hands. What did that experience teach you as a child that you've now been able to apply about how your children then.
00:03:47:07 - 00:03:49:19
Unknown
I mean, the thing is, you have the experience was definitely hands on.
00:03:49:20 - 00:04:12:03
Unknown
Again, it's not something that I was great at, but I was expected to do the thing. And it's just think about it now. I'm thinking maybe because of that experience, I have more kind of confidence in my hands on, activities. So if I need to fix something around the house, I potentially can, because I have this kind of confidence.
00:04:12:05 - 00:04:17:12
Unknown
But at the same time, thinking about from parents perspective, I'm thinking that,
00:04:17:14 - 00:04:28:20
Unknown
you know, it's difficult to be a good parent from a perspective that you need to make your kids do things that they don't like.
00:04:28:22 - 00:04:45:07
Unknown
It's much easier just to relax and say, okay, you want to watch TV or do whatever. Just go for it. It's so much easier, but it's so much difficult to make them do, I don't know, do a regular practice on piano or, build a house.
00:04:45:09 - 00:05:05:06
Unknown
It's somewhat difficult for parenting, but it's so much better for the kids, for the future because they know that, yeah, they do do need to know how to work hard to achieve anything in life. And I know everyone has this vision of, learning, being in a classroom, sitting in a row of desk with a teacher at the front.
00:05:05:08 - 00:05:26:16
Unknown
Your experience and what you're doing is fundamentally different is learning at home with your children, with sort of everyday items that you may be able to find in your kitchen or elsewhere in your house. How does you think? How do you think your child's head or your kind of experience of learning outside of the classroom? How has that been reflected in your thinking and how you've approached parenting?
00:05:26:18 - 00:05:58:22
Unknown
I mean, to be fair, again, you mentioned so many millions followers and, so many hundreds of different, experiments we have done so far. But people might think that, oh, this guy, he's really into teaching. He loves doing that. And I do love that. But to be fair, I'm quite relaxed a lazy parent. I'm doing all that stuff just because, like, I have kids and if I don't make them busy, they're going to do something by ourselves that could be too messy for me to clean up afterwards, which is again, not issue.
00:05:58:22 - 00:06:03:13
Unknown
But again, I'm just trying to kind of, guide them, through through the thing,
00:06:03:15 - 00:06:10:02
Unknown
my kids are now alone, the a team. And one of the important stressful moment of their life is 11 plus as well.
00:06:10:03 - 00:06:38:17
Unknown
Knowing the key. It's difficult. And I hear a lot of stories from parents talking about how difficult for years people are just doing and tutoring. We haven't done that. But what I noticed was, talking to all the different parents. It's not about, again, using, books, workbooks or teaching in the classroom. What works for us is just educational environment.
00:06:38:19 - 00:07:08:16
Unknown
Environment. So something that they can look around and find something to do which has like educational kind of angle to it. And again, the simplest example would be I remember my kids were blown away when I had some just simple wooden blocks, small wooden blocks and some sticky tape to it. And then what you can do, you can actually build something with the, wooden blocks and put sticky tape on the top and just create something, almost like using Lego or any other bricks.
00:07:08:18 - 00:07:12:04
Unknown
But you can make that with the hinges and they move.
00:07:12:06 - 00:07:32:14
Unknown
so it's it's not about teaching them specific terms of math, or science. It's about giving them environment or whatever they look, whatever activity they choose. They're always going to be a benefit. But again, it's not to always academic as we know, the biggest thing that parents can do for the kids is to read to them.
00:07:32:18 - 00:07:44:17
Unknown
And when they are able to read to so they can read themselves. So they have a wide range of books as well. So again, my experience is it's not about a parent actively engaging,
00:07:44:22 - 00:07:56:19
Unknown
but it's about creating an environment where whatever kids are doing, it just kind of helps the child to explore the world and just experimenting with different things.
00:07:56:21 - 00:08:16:23
Unknown
And you've spoken about your successes and sort of the reason why it organically grew, because you were enjoying the experience with your children and playing with them and running these experiments, but it obviously resonates. I mean, within 12 months you had a million followers. There's obviously a clamor from parents for the sorts of, things that you're doing.
00:08:16:24 - 00:08:25:19
Unknown
They're interested in trying to learn from you. Why do you think there was such a viral popularity? For the videos, when when you first started posting them?
00:08:26:00 - 00:08:39:24
Unknown
the videos didn't go viral sort of way again. I started from zero zero. I guess my wife that you mentioned that she was the first follower, but again, what I was doing again at the time I started on Instagram, it was just photo platform.
00:08:40:01 - 00:09:04:13
Unknown
So it just taking photos. One other thing that I was kind of, trying to solve. The other issue I tried to solve was to, find unique toys that look like, you know, plastic ones really press a button in place of sound. But something like you would an adult would want to play as because they're so good at the same time, they have some kind of educational aspect to it.
00:09:04:13 - 00:09:16:15
Unknown
So I would just find those toys and just taking pictures saying, okay, this is a good toy and it just will get inspired me to use videos. I would just showing how to play with different toys and just showing some kind of unique, niche brands.
00:09:16:21 - 00:09:18:17
Unknown
was filming go to different cities again.
00:09:18:19 - 00:09:19:14
Unknown
I'm not
00:09:19:16 - 00:09:37:04
Unknown
now I do a lot of science experiments, but when I started again, I was a parent with young kids and we were doing all the activities people will doing like again, learning numbers, letters, all that kind of stuff. Sensory. Again, that was a big thing as well. But in fact, I was just again, not an educator.
00:09:37:04 - 00:09:40:04
Unknown
And I remember making lots of mistakes.
00:09:40:06 - 00:10:16:13
Unknown
One of them being, I remember creating this cool activity where a child had to match an animal with a letter, and I just put, like, I don't know, octopus next to oh, and I wanted my child to match them, but the issue was. And then I took a photo and shared online and people kind of pointed it out was I put an S and the shark because I knew the shark there is s, but when it's shark it's like different sound and it's not connected to that's but the, the thing, like when you're starting on your educational parenting journey, you make mistakes and it's fine.
00:10:16:19 - 00:10:29:12
Unknown
In fact, if we talk about mistakes, like the whole parenting experience, like it's a collection of lots of different mistakes and that's fine. You know, kids can survive all the mistakes you do, but as long as the intentions are good.
00:10:29:14 - 00:10:36:17
Unknown
coming back to the initial question, so with, I filmed, different videos and for a while there was no traction.
00:10:36:17 - 00:11:03:16
Unknown
And then, video with Skittles, that went viral on Facebook and people found this video. I don't think it. Oh, it's simple enough. And something I can do tonight will make kids to just go to the shop and just get some Skittles, and I want to do it, but then they scrolling through my profile and they found all the all the other simple ideas, I think, okay, so it's not just one off video.
00:11:03:16 - 00:11:35:02
Unknown
It's like a place where can I find those simple ideas? Again, if you're a father, you don't know what to do with your kids. On Sunday, after the whole week of working, get the Skittles, do the thing. It's fun. And that's what it's all about. So what I was trying to do all this from my social media presence, is to find something so exciting that parents see saying, oh, I can do this and be inspired enough to get materials or just grab materials from the house and they should do it with the kids.
00:11:35:04 - 00:11:55:12
Unknown
It wasn't. It was never about showing. It might be just for the kids. It was inspiring parents to do the thing. So important. And what you said really resonates in terms of a as a parent. And I know personally, but also from all of the families that we interact with, some lack confidence. They lack the sort of view of I'm not going to do it right, then I shouldn't do it.
00:11:55:16 - 00:12:17:03
Unknown
Whereas your approach is obviously experiment, learn by doing and iterate over time. And then obviously with parents and their children, that sort of what are the moments that I should be doing what I how do we bond? How do we, come together more regularly? And so I think it's a really beautiful example of this is simple things that are exciting and energizing for families to do together.
00:12:17:06 - 00:12:41:04
Unknown
I just want to have that sometimes, especially with experiments, when people look at my videos, watch the videos and think, okay, this is what the child supposed to do, like mix those two things and it just gives you those two things to the child. And child does something a little different, and the parent who knows what's supposed to be done, sorry to interrupt the child saying, okay, no, this is what you do.
00:12:41:06 - 00:13:16:07
Unknown
And that's the wrong approach. And that's like, that's the experience that I had again, again, creating videos. I don't think, okay, this is what I want to show. I don't think, hey kids child, just do the thing. But again, that's the wrong way of approaching the thing and coming back to the point. Like if you feel too confident knowing what they supposed to do and you lead them to that specific thing or, you know, not lead them yet, tell them what to do, that the problem that the thing I remember one, you know, you probably had the same stage when you have a baby and then, whatever new thing you grab some plastic,
00:13:16:09 - 00:13:35:18
Unknown
kitchen spoon. You bring the child. Child. Look at it. Wow. It's magical. I want to play with that thing, whatever that is. And for a while, you just bring the new things from the kitchen and it's all fine. But at some point, they really learn everything. They need something new again. You can bring a TV to you, but the experiment or an activity.
00:13:35:20 - 00:14:00:12
Unknown
But sometimes it's better to just allowing them to explore and find their own way to the same thing that you want to show. Or maybe they play for half an hour and bored and say, okay, but you know what? If you mix those, let's see how what happens. I love I love all of that. I think it's such a, you know, good way of thinking about parenting is there is no one way that things should be done.
00:14:00:12 - 00:14:22:10
Unknown
There's a multitude of different ways that you can get to the end of that journey. And the journey in and of itself is, it's the enjoyable, that and exciting bit. Let's think about some of your experiments. So you've got the skittle with the colors that are sort of bleeding out, and some of the ones that you know, you're famous for, and obviously there's science and chemistry and everything that sort of underpinning this.
00:14:22:12 - 00:14:44:05
Unknown
But there's something bigger, isn't there? There's something bigger that's going on. It's a parent interacting with a child. There's a bond that's growing and developing. What makes it so special for you about the videos you produce, thinking about those moments, the number of families that have watched them and then as a result, hopefully taking some of your advice, guidance and run those experiments at home.
00:14:44:07 - 00:15:05:00
Unknown
Why is that moment so important for parent bonding and playing with the child? Yeah, there's so many things I can say to that. The simplest one is I have so many videos for the past over ten years that I have with the videos for my kids. So again, the one of the advice for all the parents out there is see on these videos, feel your kids videos photos.
00:15:05:00 - 00:15:34:13
Unknown
But videos work the best the interaction between your kids. So now have a huge gallery and you can actually see how my kids were growing through the time. So that's just amazing. It just a side thing that I never thought about it, but now I'm looking at those videos and it's really amazing. As for interaction, again, I would just touch base, that if you are a busy parent, let's say you're that for this particular example, you have a busy week and then you have just Sunday with your kids, and you'll come to the key that you haven't seen for the whole week.
00:15:34:13 - 00:15:46:10
Unknown
I'm thinking, yeah, this is time for me to do something with the child. What can I do? Again, the simple idea is, they're watching a movie, which is. Which is fine.
00:15:46:12 - 00:15:56:19
Unknown
I'm I'm I'm now organizing a birthday party for my kids. And quite often kids for the parties. At this particular age, which is close to a teenager, they're going to the cinema.
00:15:56:19 - 00:16:16:03
Unknown
I'm saying, like cinema isn't the place for interaction. You can have like five friends, but for like an hour and a half, you're just sitting there in the cinema and just watching. There is no interaction. So I don't think it's it's a good party kind of scenario. Same here. So what I want to do is to create this bond.
00:16:16:03 - 00:16:38:18
Unknown
And the idea is like if you as a parent, going to do some kind of boring stuff that you're not into in into it, child will see that and they feel that. But if you again coming back, watch the video on the that lab back to skills or any other experiment anything. Oh I never thought that's going to work.
00:16:38:20 - 00:17:01:06
Unknown
Let's try it. So you as a parent, want to try something? You're excited to try it by yourself. But there is child as well. So, And the child can feel your excitement. Can can see how happy you are trying the thing. And that's what the bonding is, happen. That's where the moment when memories are created. So just activities, experiments.
00:17:01:06 - 00:17:32:04
Unknown
It shouldn't be okay. Now we're going to learn about science. It's an act that is fun for both. And you're doing it not because you're doing it for the children, which you do. But the main thing, because you are, you're curious itself. Another thing like curious is, again, buzzword nowadays and all kids do have curiosity as long as you have something which could be again, originated from just a video you saw online or read something or anything, and you just want to try yourself to replicate those experiments.
00:17:32:06 - 00:18:11:00
Unknown
It's good enough. But kids do need these hands on experience of, I don't know, mixing things together, changing things to see what happens. I completely agree, baby. So we talk a lot about certain return moments. So where you have those interactions between parents and children that's helping the developmental process, all of those kind of that the your neurodevelopment in the brain made saying that, growing and seeing those connections being, flourished by virtue of that engagement and excitement and, and doing that with a mom or dad or a carer with that child.
00:18:11:02 - 00:18:44:19
Unknown
Your experiments, obviously, you know, they are scientific in nature, a lot of them. How have you sort of seen correct from a development standpoint and from a yeah, yeah, from development, with your own children, were you able to see sort of advancements that they were making as a result of the work that you were doing, or is there any evidence that you looked at in terms of where if you do these different, experiments and you build your own lab at home, is there any evidence, helps have showcased that the brain development that's happening at that time?
00:18:44:21 - 00:19:06:16
Unknown
Yeah. Also, people watching me online think that I'm doing all the experiments to make sure that my kids are scientists. It's not the reason, again, what I'm doing, I, I, I'm doing some activity together with the kids. And what I want them to learn is to not be afraid to explore the world, try to mix different things.
00:19:06:16 - 00:19:32:17
Unknown
And, you know, there is idea that if you mix couple of different things, you can create something new altogether. And that's one just to open minds. In fact, out of my two of my kids, only just one is interested more in science. Another one is okay with that. It's not about the science. In fact, again, some people will think that, I do all sorts of experience of thinking that I'm a scientist or a teacher.
00:19:32:19 - 00:19:44:17
Unknown
I'm not. But even even now, I'm trying to understand why they say some experience or some not, and I do trying to explain to the child, for example,
00:19:44:19 - 00:20:04:14
Unknown
it's not about the science, but it's about understanding the world around them. One of the activities I remember, being mindful by, quite simple. And again, I remember giving this to a toddler, which could be messy because it involves, a cup of water, but again, it's simple thing.
00:20:04:16 - 00:20:23:02
Unknown
And I, I'm going to tell you what to do. And then I tell you how I explain the science behind it, all of which could be complicated. So the activity is quite simple. So you have, like, paper towel cutting a strip, maybe, one inch white strip like that. The only having some, markers. Not permanent.
00:20:23:08 - 00:20:48:05
Unknown
Some just regular markers. And you draw different lines, different colors at the bottom. And one short side of it, then you have a glass, put some water in, and then, you can dip that, piece of, paper with the paint at the bottom, into the water. So it touches water just a little bit. There are different ways you can just put it on a side of the glass.
00:20:48:05 - 00:21:14:08
Unknown
Or you could put the pencil and put over the pencil and then the wait for a moment. And what happens is again, simple experiment. What happens, the kitchen towel start absorbing the water. And while it's passing through all the drawings, it will take the colors and it will mix together. And you just go up and up and you're thinking, I remember when I was doing that again, parents, we don't like mass.
00:21:14:10 - 00:21:30:02
Unknown
So there is a glass of water. There's a chance that is going to be spilled. Just prepare for the thing. Just put it on a tray or something. But the thing is, then when the child sees it for the first time, it just. It's all about like, giving them lots of paper and markers and just continue doing it.
00:21:30:02 - 00:21:56:06
Unknown
So much. It's it's beautiful. And then you're thinking, okay, cool activity, maybe artsy. Is there a science? And there is a science. And it's quite complicated and it's not something that I can easily explain. So there is like, air bubbles inside the paper, and they just, they absorb the air and it's difficult, but I'm trying to use, like, simple words.
00:21:56:08 - 00:22:17:22
Unknown
But the main thing is, you can say to a child, you know how trees drink water from the ground. This is what's happening here. So it's like this piece of paper, just take some water and pull up. And it's a simple explanation that it's not a science. I mean, it is a bit of science, but it's more about understanding the world.
00:22:17:24 - 00:22:45:06
Unknown
I think it's fascinating. And I think it's, as you say, that contextual understanding of the world that they're living in. And for children to also appreciate the message that you're just describing and the uncertainty that sometimes these experiments go wrong, sometimes they go perfectly to plan two, what does it mean for that child, do you think, to live in a home, to live in an environment where mass is okay, things going wrong, happens, compared to the alternative?
00:22:45:08 - 00:23:10:14
Unknown
What are you hoping to, those parent, those children to, to learn from that scenario that the thing like we as parents, we we hate mass even even even though we say we will manage, we hate it. We're trying to make sure that we stay away. But again, the simple explanation is like, you have a baby, in a high chair, and the child just throws, I don't know, food on the floor.
00:23:10:16 - 00:23:36:11
Unknown
You're thinking, why? But the thing is, like from the child perspective, potentially, they never threw anything before. And that is exactly scientific experiment. The thing what happens if I throw the carrot, on the floor? What's going to happen with this carrot? That the exact experiment. So it's not time to remove the child saying, don't do that. They don't care about your no mass rule.
00:23:36:13 - 00:24:03:23
Unknown
They don't have these constrictions or anything. They just they just live their life. And yeah, we just need to allow them that. From my personal perspective, my personal experience, I allow mass, I mean, I'm lucky enough. Again, one of the comments that I was getting a lot of my videos was, how come we can do some kind of, craft with paint, and my kids would wear some white t shirt, and it's fine.
00:24:04:00 - 00:24:26:11
Unknown
I don't know, my kids are just like that. But again, what I know from parenting is I have two different kids and they're completely different. And they're born two years apart, but on the same day. But, like, completely different. And what works with one doesn't work for another. It means that whatever I tell you now, it might not work for your child.
00:24:26:13 - 00:24:53:00
Unknown
We all parents are on a journey to find something that works for them and for that child. And there is no kind of wrong unless it's a legal way of doing that. You just trying your best, and it's okay to fail as a parent, and it's. You're trying to restrict them or you, you are holding the mass, or you are allowing the mass, the lots of different kind of other ways you can allow them to enrich the, themselves.
00:24:53:02 - 00:25:13:09
Unknown
And that's what we're trying to achieve in all spaces. And I say, parents come to a baby zone so they can run around. The children can jump on a soft play, but they can also go into some classes. I can, play with other children their age. Mom, dad can meet people their age two and form connections with them and share the fact that every child is unique.
00:25:13:14 - 00:25:27:03
Unknown
But there's also some shared challenges, that, you know, some children don't eat or they don't sleep. And, you know, it's okay. Everyone's scenario may be different and there may be also shared experiences, but yeah, we're all in it together. We're all trying our best.
00:25:27:06 - 00:25:30:02
Unknown
all trying to help our children learn and grow.
00:25:30:04 - 00:25:50:08
Unknown
So it's yeah, I think what you just described, there is every child being unique. We can work together on different ways of playing, different ways of learning together, that are enjoyable and stimulating. One of the things I wanted to ask you about was screen time, and I think you chose not to have a television at home.
00:25:50:10 - 00:26:16:21
Unknown
And obviously there's a lot in the, discourse at the moment around how can we support parents with things like screens. And obviously you're doing very hands on physical activities. How what would you say to parents that you'd say is struggling with finding the right balance with trying to ensure that they're spending time bonding directly with their children, while competing with various devices?
00:26:16:23 - 00:26:39:23
Unknown
First of all, yeah, it's it's difficult. I mean, generally finding balance, like, I know the device is a difficult topic altogether, but, like, even finding this work life balance is difficult. So finding balance is always difficult. Sometimes it's impossible. In fact, some people saying like there is no never, you can never achieve, life or work balance.
00:26:39:23 - 00:26:44:19
Unknown
It's either work or life. Same thing here. It's difficult.
00:26:45:00 - 00:27:01:07
Unknown
Coming back to the thing that you said, I chose not to have TV. It wasn't my decision. It was my wife's. And because we at the time we moved from, oh, furnished a rented place to unfurnished and I said, yeah, I need to buy, gadget man, I love gadgets.
00:27:01:07 - 00:27:29:00
Unknown
I'm like, yeah, I need a huge TV, 4K with all the latest technology, and I don't think I need to convince my wife. I said that how we don't need TV, and I was kind of researching on the background, but I say, okay, maybe not now, but later. Like in a couple of weeks. And I was waiting, waiting at some at some point, like we ended up not having TV and I'm happy with that because like, when are you looking, at the history of her man?
00:27:29:00 - 00:27:56:20
Unknown
Is it maybe it's like too, too big of a phrase, but I remember for a while, humans, we we spend a lot of time just getting food. But nowadays we have food accessible anytime, anywhere. We just go have it's. And that's why it led to some people eating more than they supposed to and having, problem with health because of that, something happened with comfort.
00:27:56:20 - 00:28:23:13
Unknown
Like, again, we have general kind of, direction what the people trying to solve some problems, like, solutions like remote control, soft chairs. That does make our life comfortable easier. But at the same time, it just reduces, like it makes our health kind of ward wars just because, like, instead of standing and just pressing the bottom, you just have to just lie down and just press a button on the remote control.
00:28:23:15 - 00:28:42:05
Unknown
It's so much easier. Like lifts. I mean, every time I see an escalator, I always take the stairs because I know, like, if I take the stairs, it's going to be better for me. It it's not not about anyone else. It's just I'm trying to avoid this comfort, including wearing these barefoot shoes just because they reduce using the comfort.
00:28:42:07 - 00:29:05:01
Unknown
And now we're coming to. The main point is, I remember the time, when. So I was the recent letter. I don't know how it was everybody else in, in the world. But we had on Sunday morning. We had cartoons for one hour, and every child would go for that one hour to the TV and just watch that cartoon, because if you miss it, you're not going to see it.
00:29:05:03 - 00:29:35:19
Unknown
The next one would be in just in a week. And that was our time with the kids. Just go and do that thing. And that was beautiful time, because nowadays the biggest problem that we have is instant access to overload of entertainment. And as, as I was saying, just. But cartoons in just one hour a week here, we just take in the form and we have like so many apps just allowing you games, videos, any type of entertainment you'll want.
00:29:35:21 - 00:30:00:15
Unknown
the real. It's changed. So we can't rely on our instinct to deal with that and only things to go again. Coming back to to the food is what do you have food? You just eat it. But now we realize at some point we need to stop. The difference between us and our kids is that we remember time before the gadgets, before the internet.
00:30:00:17 - 00:30:28:11
Unknown
We know what it's okay. What is Norm? So after, I don't know, watching Tik Tok for an hour, we can just stand up saying, okay, I, I wasted this hour because I know I could do something, some other things. But for the child, depending on the age at which I don't know, a YouTube video for an hour, they they grew up with that, so they can't reflect because that was the norm for them all the time.
00:30:28:13 - 00:30:55:11
Unknown
With my personal experience with the gadget was when my older one, was toddler. I remember it was a big boom for new iPads. So we got him iPads installed, different educational, educational apps. In fact, there was a benefit. So one on one app taught him how to sort things by shape because like in real life, you can potentially fail in that.
00:30:55:11 - 00:31:15:24
Unknown
But the app was like, if you drag the shape the wrong place, it just wouldn't allow you. So he learned that concept from the app. But soon enough, we noticed that what I would take away the iPad, the child would become just angry, screaming like a little child who couldn't speak. He would be just like, really kind of angry.
00:31:16:01 - 00:31:36:14
Unknown
And I was thinking like, I love you to have some fun, but it looks like it's, a bit of an addiction. So for a while, we just took it away saying, okay, which we'll put some conversation saying something like, you can play it in the morning and then say, okay, iPad is any need some charging? And after a week or so he just forget all about it.
00:31:36:16 - 00:31:58:02
Unknown
So we were lucky enough to kind of notice that, correct quite early and find a way around it. But again, I'm not saying that parents who give, iPads or iPhones to, children, it's bad. We we were all trying to find our bounds, and it's going to be a different kind of way of balancing the thing.
00:31:58:04 - 00:32:20:15
Unknown
But generally what I know from my experience, it's not good. The access to entertainment that we have are the parents. Again, we do have experience. We know how to handle it. And we still struggling with that. In fact, on I'm on social media and I hate vertical short videos that are under a minute that snaps just like that.
00:32:20:15 - 00:32:38:22
Unknown
And then you can spend an hour on the app just without realizing that. So what I did because I knew that was normal. So install an app every time I open, one of those, social media platforms, it asks me, do I want three minutes or ten? And I said, I just need to check messages. Three minutes.
00:32:38:24 - 00:32:58:15
Unknown
I'm just getting stuck on some reels. Then they says, oh, three minutes run out. Did you do what you supposed to? I said, oh, I want to check the messages. I press three minutes, check the message and then leave for the app. Another thing, those apps are addictive. Like all the entertainment it does bring you happiness. You need.
00:32:58:16 - 00:33:19:03
Unknown
We need to treat it as anything that could be addictive, and especially for a child that doesn't want to have those fun things we all want. But if you teach them that, that's a place and that's okay. That every second you get to get a burst of, happiness hormones in your in your brain, it's not gonna be good for the child.
00:33:19:06 - 00:33:42:09
Unknown
if a child expects now that everything in life is supposed to bring you happiness, just like that, like those videos, you won't be able to match just with the real life experience. The real life experiences. It's not hard. You work on a project, it doesn't work. You're changing. You trying to work it out. You fail.
00:33:42:11 - 00:34:02:23
Unknown
At some point, you succeed and you get the final result, and then you get the happiness. It's not what you it's it's all the struggles that you go through on social media or any kind of online entertainment. Only entertainment give you answers where real life experiments, science handled experience, give you questions you don't something you're like, wow, what's happening?
00:34:03:04 - 00:34:24:07
Unknown
And you want to discuss it with somebody with a parent. What's happening? How did it work? Can we change something? That's what it's all about. Like finding a way, natural way for kids to be off screen and just ask questions. Yeah, I think that's so important, isn't it? That learning opportunity, asking questions, trying to get a better understanding of the world around you.
00:34:24:09 - 00:35:08:00
Unknown
And one of the things we're very interested in, and we've developed our own program around everyday maths, because we know that maths has a really big impact on a child's future. Chances of academic success, and having a prosperous life after school as well. And I guess, you know, it's about laying the foundations, every day. Maths curriculum is around parental confidence, around numeracy, making sure they feel comfortable with concepts that may not be like, maths equation or solving for, difficult problems, but actually counting the number of pieces of pasta that are on a plate or identifying something's heavy versus being light and realizing, well, that's actually maths two.
00:35:08:02 - 00:35:32:24
Unknown
And your experiments or science experiments, a lot of maths, and learning, counting and volume and measurement and spatial reasoning. But it doesn't feel like a lesson. It doesn't feel like you're being taught. How do you what was it, sort of, conscious decision to smuggle those sorts of concepts into play without the children ever going to realizing that that's what was going on?
00:35:33:01 - 00:35:52:12
Unknown
we have potentially a bit different approach between me and my wife. She wants every activity, whatever that, like CBT is, including now for our teenage kids that they want to love. The thing to be excited about, the thing to do. The thing for me, it's like, you know, sometimes you need to learn how to do the hard work.
00:35:52:17 - 00:36:14:12
Unknown
So it's something that you don't want to do, but you have to do it. So I'm trying to teach how to work, but it's hard because kids don't want to work hard. I mean, who does? But as for activities, that they present, obviously, when I started as a parent, typical David is doing all the activities there is always, like, educational.
00:36:14:12 - 00:36:36:17
Unknown
So you want to teach them something new and maths is one of the angles. But I do do a lot of crafts because it's, it's you think it's crafts is just art, but if you kind of gluing something together, you need to create it. You need to think about what you want to do, what shape to to create, cut it out.
00:36:36:17 - 00:36:40:09
Unknown
So it's a lot of kind of geometric, it's hidden there.
00:36:40:11 - 00:36:53:22
Unknown
science is in any activity you're doing there is science involved. The question is, do you pay attention to it or not? But as a parent, I obviously wanted to my kids to learn letters, sounds, numbers. And it was a conscious decision to make it kind of fun.
00:36:54:01 - 00:37:12:13
Unknown
if kids learn something while playing, they remember they enjoy it, they remember the better. And that's what it's all about. It's not about tutoring, as I'm saying, okay, just repeat the things without understanding. It's like, oh, you know what big number means? It's actually that big pile. That's big number. This small pile of small number
00:37:12:19 - 00:37:20:09
Unknown
though the concept that they can understand and just remember them because it's so kind of obvious after what you show them.
00:37:20:11 - 00:37:21:11
Unknown
I love that
00:37:21:13 - 00:37:44:22
Unknown
the struggles that you just described around children failing, things being difficult, I'm very interested from the perspective of AI and the fact that we're going to be bringing in the next generation of children up in a world where memorizing facts, writing essays, solving equations, there's probably going to be a machine that can do all of that on their behalf.
00:37:44:24 - 00:37:45:19
Unknown
Already,
00:37:45:21 - 00:38:08:15
Unknown
what machines can't do is take initiatives and make meaningful choices and persist. Perhaps when things don't work and not get frustrated. I think of that as agency. How we develop agency in a child so that they learn how a lemon could power a clock or, you know, test how many books a ruler could support some of the experiments that you would run.
00:38:08:17 - 00:38:27:20
Unknown
Is that what you're building? You tried to build agency in children so that they persist, so that they have resilience and grit, and that will ultimately help them differentiate themselves from the agents and automations that a computer is going to come up with. When they enter the world of work or the world of education. Yeah. Good question.
00:38:27:20 - 00:38:39:04
Unknown
Like, that's that's a difficult time for all humanity, for kids of different age. What they get, we need to teach them for the future. In the era of AI,
00:38:39:06 - 00:38:52:17
Unknown
currently what I do with AI, it's 85% accurate, meaning that you still need to understand what you're doing to use these products. For that, you have to make sure that you correct all the mistakes.
00:38:52:19 - 00:39:23:02
Unknown
Obviously, it's going to be lower. And with every month, with every year, the number of mistakes is going to it's going to do what is good for to teach kids nowadays, it's difficult to say. Currently. The important thing is to teach kids is critical thinking because again, I just creates a lot of fake information. And it's thinking, oh, that doesn't look like it's the real information.
00:39:23:04 - 00:39:46:14
Unknown
And just double check it. So critical thinking is the important thing to teach kids while we're here. But again, for us adults, it's easier because we knew the life before. I. So we know some of the things where AI is the norm for everyone is going to be difficult to create critical thinking, because all the information just comes from kind of more or less one source.
00:39:46:16 - 00:40:07:01
Unknown
But as a parents, what we can do best is just kind of do best just whatever we can offer to our child's. And we just need to offer that people saying that we need creativity, maybe we do, but it's just generally a good thing to have for a child. Just and again, if you want your child to be creative, it means that they do need to have time.
00:40:07:01 - 00:40:29:09
Unknown
When they walked in the room with no devices, no TV, they're more than thinking, oh, that I'm bored, what can I do and say, I don't know, come up with something yourself in the sitting in the room. And they do take those blocks and they take this piece of paper, started playing the game. That's what we need. We need to make sure that they come away from distractions and get bored.
00:40:29:11 - 00:40:49:06
Unknown
I want to come back to the word dad in that that lab. And I think there's obviously a version about the dad lab being about science and experimenting and playing. But also when I watch your videos, it's about seeing a dad. It's about seeing a father choosing to be present, being on the floor, mucking in, mucking about with with children.
00:40:49:08 - 00:41:08:22
Unknown
How consciously do you think about the version of fatherhood that you're putting out there on the screen? And given that there are many dads out there that haven't been given a huge amount of guidance from their parents, how do you think you modeling fatherhood? Maybe for dads, I've never had it model to themselves.
00:41:08:24 - 00:41:09:11
Unknown
we're the parents.
00:41:09:11 - 00:41:40:10
Unknown
We just do the best we can. Me being a dad, obviously, I'm trying to spend time with my kids, and then kind of close to teenage years, I'm not sure how close I can stay for how long. So I do my best. And just trying to do that gently. I remember having this specific moment in my, social media career development when I took my child, on a scooter run, to a local park, and we forget the helmets and I.
00:41:40:10 - 00:42:07:07
Unknown
But I still kind of feel I'm some kind of, I don't know, Instagram stories about it. And I got this comment saying, like, it's okay. You know, first of all, you can't allow your child not to wear Hamilton. So like, it's just happened just once kind of thing. And the comment was, you having so much influence you can't relax and put something like that and just it just hit me.
00:42:07:07 - 00:42:32:10
Unknown
And that's what I'm thinking. Every time I post something that's I'm setting an example and I can't give show the bad example. But at the same time, I'm trying to be just so the real life and real life is that we fail sometimes. Like sometimes we don't want to spend time with the kids and we want some time away to, you know, pump ourselves like again, some date nights with my wife.
00:42:32:15 - 00:42:56:09
Unknown
And why not? It's not just about the kids. The fact is now, sometimes I'm thinking like at some point the kids leave the house and what we're going to do, and I'm thinking like hundred percent of my time of focusing on kids, driving them around, doing activities, spending time with them. But when if they're gone, like they went to university or something, I don't know what I'm going to do.
00:42:56:11 - 00:43:17:20
Unknown
Like, and that that's important thing. So we need to think about ourselves as well. So it's not just about them, it's about them and their priority. But we need to think about what else we can offer to the world, what else we can offer to ourselves, and what activities, I don't know, hobbies. And then of day. But yeah, fatherhood is important and that's why.
00:43:17:20 - 00:43:36:07
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. There is a that and I don't serve on the activity. Sometimes I share just our everyday fatherhood wins friends. So if there was one experiment do you think every family should try this weekend? What would it be? Wow.
00:43:36:09 - 00:43:40:11
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. I can just think about it.
00:43:40:13 - 00:44:07:04
Unknown
The one experiment everyone should do this weekend even now is take a glass, pour water into the glass, until it's completely full. Then take some kind of card, maybe Christmas cards, put it on top that, turn the glass upside down and release your hand from the card. If everything goes right, they should stay.
00:44:07:06 - 00:44:42:01
Unknown
And all should stay in the in the glass. Even so, the glass is upside down. The card is on the bottom and it's so much fun. And what am I doing? This experiment the trying to hold it over some kids had. But the thing is again, just coming back to explanation of science is it's it's quite complicated. It's like it's a pressure thing and I don't know how to explain it, but my simple explanation is water is trying to get out of the glass, but to get out it should allow, in our case air in.
00:44:42:03 - 00:45:01:17
Unknown
But our card holds the excess of the hair of air. So air can come in so water can come out. That's a simple experiment and simple explanation. But it's again simple, quick and exciting. I'll give that a go this evening. I think my wife might want me to put a bucket underneath just in case it goes wrong.
00:45:01:17 - 00:45:06:05
Unknown
So your boys share birthday, as you said. What's the best thing about that?
00:45:06:07 - 00:45:19:22
Unknown
the worst thing is, I remember celebrating the second birthday of my first child, which were obviously we were in, giving birth to the second child. And my first one was with my with my mum. So that's like the downside.
00:45:20:01 - 00:45:41:15
Unknown
But then I'll think it, oh, it's cool. We're going to share the party. And for a couple years it worked. But now it's like usually it's like a long weekend with two parties one on Saturday and one on Sunday. It's quite intense. The best. The best part is, I don't know. It's one of those facts that I love to kind of share.
00:45:41:15 - 00:45:59:13
Unknown
That's the best part. I don't think it's changes anything other than that. It just cool fact. And what's the biggest myth that you'd like to, bust? Is there anything about children's learning, for example, that you'd like to, correct or change?
00:45:59:15 - 00:46:22:09
Unknown
The thing is, again, kids are quite curious from the day they were born. Sometimes the best thing that we can do is just allow them to explore without restricting them pushing any boundaries. Obviously, we need to put some kind of boundaries to make sure they're safe, but curiosity is already there. We don't need to nurture it. Is there as long.
00:46:22:10 - 00:46:39:18
Unknown
As long as we not gonna stop it by saying, okay, Max is not allowed, or don't do the hair stuff like that, it's going to be okay. And most of the time what I was doing, I was just kind of holding my kids. If they are interested in a specific thing, I would just give more of that thing.
00:46:39:20 - 00:47:00:03
Unknown
Just because I'm kind of lazy and it works for them because as a parent, right, there's kind of two main approaches you can take a look at what your, child and what he's good at and what he's not good at. And usually school will say, oh, your child is not good at math. So you need to focus on math and maybe do.
00:47:00:03 - 00:47:17:24
Unknown
But my approaches, looking at what my child is excelled in and I'm focusing on that because if he excels, he's good at it. He's excited about it. Just keep more of that. If he's about music, just give more of music to him. Mass give more mass to make sure that he excels in the thing that he loves.
00:47:18:01 - 00:47:23:03
Unknown
That's a really powerful message to end on. Thank you so much again. It's been a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you.
00:47:23:05 - 00:47:45:17
Unknown
What I'm taking from this conversation is something simple. The most powerful thing we can give a child isn't a curriculum or a kit. It's a parent who feels confident enough to try a baby's own. We see families every single week who love their children deeply but feel like they're not doing enough. Not stimulating enough, not education enough, not present enough.
00:47:45:19 - 00:48:06:23
Unknown
And that's what circuits work shows. What those 3 billion views tell us is parents are hungry. They're hungry for permission to sit with their children, play with them, learn with them, experiment with them. They want permission not to know the answer, permission to make a mess and call it learning. He started with a kitchen and a couple of kids, and the wife said, put it all on Instagram.
00:48:07:00 - 00:48:16:02
Unknown
And in doing so, he's built something that reach families and languages. He doesn't even speak in countries he's never visited. Doing experiments with things they already own.
00:48:16:04 - 00:48:28:13
Unknown
Here's what the science tells us. When a parent opens a kitchen cupboard and says, let's try something, that moment of practice creates knowledge. Knowledge then creates confidence, and that confidence creates change.
00:48:28:15 - 00:48:32:18
Unknown
That's the flywheel. And once it starts turning, it doesn't stop.
00:48:32:20 - 00:48:36:21
Unknown
So if you remember one thing, you can't fail a science experiment.
00:48:37:01 - 00:48:40:16
Unknown
And thank you for listening. Two Best Beginnings A Baby's Own podcast.
00:48:40:22 - 00:48:45:20
Unknown
For more evidence informed support on babies and the early years, subscribe to this channel.
00:48:45:22 - 00:48:50:07
Unknown
If you found this helpful, share it with someone who you think might need it. We'll see you next time.