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Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:07
David Byrne
We have a natural tendency to assume that the way things are is inevitable. That's just not true. They can change, and in some places they do.
00:00:09:08 - 00:00:19:09
Ben Wolf
David Byrne is someone I had worked with on some other films, and, I knew that he was an avid cyclist. And so I reached out to him when I was getting started on this project.
00:00:19:10 - 00:00:41:12
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman, and that is Ben Wolfe, director of the new documentary Changing Lanes. The story of the transformation of a notoriously dangerous McGuinness Boulevard. But before we dive into that, I just want to say, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador.
00:00:41:12 - 00:00:58:03
John Simmerman
Hey, super easy to do here on YouTube. You can just click on the join button right down below, or you can navigate over to Active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page, and there's several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter and patrons to get early and ad free access to all of this video content.
00:00:58:07 - 00:01:06:02
John Simmerman
Okay, let's get right to it with Ben.
00:01:06:04 - 00:01:10:08
John Simmerman
Ben Wolf thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
00:01:10:10 - 00:01:11:24
Ben Wolf
Thanks for having me.
00:01:11:26 - 00:01:19:09
John Simmerman
And I love giving my guest just a quick moment to, introduce themselves. So, who the heck is Ben? Welcome.
00:01:19:11 - 00:01:50:18
Ben Wolf
Well, I'm a New York City based filmmaker. I've been here. I grew up in California, but I came to New York in 1991. I primarily work as a cinematographer, and the type of work I enjoy the most is documentary work. I wanted to, direct a documentary of my own for a long time. And when the, the pandemic really slowed down, my normal work that created gave me the opportunity to, finally do my own thing.
00:01:50:19 - 00:01:58:13
Ben Wolf
And so that first feature doc that I've directed is called Changing Lanes. And I think that's what we're going to mostly talk about today.
00:01:58:15 - 00:02:14:24
John Simmerman
But that is absolutely true. We are going to talk about changing lanes. Yeah. That's that's fascinating. How how did that process happen for you in terms of like how did this fit your radar screen of all things?
00:02:14:26 - 00:02:17:22
John Simmerman
Well.
00:02:17:24 - 00:02:40:03
Ben Wolf
I've been, I used to race bicycles and, in New York City. I've used it as a way of getting around for the time I've been here. And New York City in America. Is. Is it fair? Is fairly unique as a large city where cycling is, certainly at this point, quite a common way that people are getting around.
00:02:40:04 - 00:03:02:08
Ben Wolf
When I first was doing it, it, I was quite an outlier. And I remember I would show up to meetings, like, with a helmet and people would be freaking out. That's crazy. And it's been interesting over the 30 years I've been here to watch how how something that was pretty marginal has, has entered the mainstream. And mostly that's been fun and exciting.
00:03:02:08 - 00:03:05:14
Ben Wolf
And,
00:03:05:16 - 00:03:08:27
Ben Wolf
For me to see. But,
00:03:09:00 - 00:03:34:04
Ben Wolf
During the pandemic, the streets, I felt like there was some backsliding and the sort of progress we made started the streets started feeling more chaotic and more dangerous. So I thought that would be an interesting thing to look at how we're. Who's designing these streets? How are decisions made? It was also important for me in 2020.
00:03:34:06 - 00:03:56:10
Ben Wolf
In the 2020s, I've been, as many people are, sort of preoccupied with our national politics and I felt like I needed to find a way to talk about that in a movie, but but not in a preachy, dogmatic way, but like, as a specific story that that touches on politics help from which hopefully somebody could draw some larger conclusions.
00:03:56:12 - 00:04:23:00
Ben Wolf
And I think, I, you know, I was fortunate to sort of find that sort of perfect microcosm. It's a it's a local story about transportation. But it also, I think, exhibits some of the patterns that we see it in all of our politics, the divisiveness and the anger, the unwillingness to sort of look at actual facts, the screaming at each other, a lot of that sort of thing.
00:04:23:03 - 00:04:33:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I'm a fourth generation Angelino from Los Angeles. My family moved there in, in the late 1800s. Where were you in California?
00:04:33:14 - 00:04:44:19
Ben Wolf
Well, I was born in San Francisco, but when I was seven, I moved to LA. And I grew up in, Los, the Los Feliz neighborhood. And then I left to go to college in the East Coast and never, never move back.
00:04:44:25 - 00:05:04:07
John Simmerman
You never move back. I like to say that I have a love hate relationship with the Los Angeles area. You know, it's like I. Whenever I'm gone, I miss it and and miss the family there. But then whenever I'm there, it drives me nuts just how insane it is. And so, Yeah, it's it's one of those interesting things.
00:05:04:07 - 00:05:33:23
John Simmerman
And that lady, you know, continues to come back in, you know, that's the story that I tell in terms of, like how we allowed the automobile to completely take over Los Angeles, which is infamous and famous for having, back at the turn of the century, the largest streetcar network. And in fact, my great great grandfather and my great great great grandfather both worked on the red line cars, there, you know, at the turn of the century.
00:05:33:26 - 00:05:49:22
John Simmerman
And so, you know, it's one of those things where we, we really did, even in a place like, you know, New York, we let the automobile take over in cities that are historic and, and, and it's really kind of insidious how we did that.
00:05:49:24 - 00:06:17:13
Ben Wolf
And again, here we let I just sit here, we let the car take over, even in a place where most people don't use cars. So that's what's really mind boggling. In like in L.A., the cars took over, and ultimately most people felt that they had no choice but to use cars to get around. And and when I go to L.A., that's always kind of the the thing I least appreciate about it is it's hard to get around if you, you know, you have to use a car and then you get stuck in traffic.
00:06:17:13 - 00:06:20:06
Ben Wolf
And it's just a very frustrating experience.
00:06:20:08 - 00:06:53:00
John Simmerman
Well, I'll correct you on one thing in, in saying that it depending on your trips in the Los Angeles Basin area, it's inherently a very, you know, rideable environment. As long as your trip isn't too long for a bike ride. Hey, what we. Yes. And so what we have to acknowledge is the fact, especially in the older areas of the city, is that there's just, you know, delightful rides that you can take in the basin and, and get to get to, you know, meaningful destinations.
00:06:53:00 - 00:07:16:22
John Simmerman
And when I lived in LA, I, you know, lived in sort of Koreatown and I would be able to ride my bike, you know, I would ride my bike through the city and then up behind the Hollywood side, you know, it's. Yeah. So you get it. You know, there's that context of we kind of allowed, the automobile, which is an amazing tool to like, run our lives.
00:07:16:24 - 00:07:18:28
John Simmerman
And it's just. Yeah, it's part of it. Yeah.
00:07:18:29 - 00:07:38:29
Ben Wolf
And I have very conflicted feelings about cars having grown up in Southern California where, you know, where we we love cars. And I, I, I, I'll admit I have a classic, Mini Cooper, which I love. You know, I love, I love that that. But but it also makes no sense that we're driving multi-time things around to move up human being.
00:07:38:29 - 00:08:04:14
Ben Wolf
It makes zero sense. It's it's it's a makes zero sense from a pollution standpoint, from an economic standpoint, from a, you know, from a dangerous standpoint, from a taking up physical space. It just is an extremely inefficient way, and especially in a dense urban environment, to get around it. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I think it does make a lot of sense for oil companies and car companies and steel companies.
00:08:04:14 - 00:08:19:29
Ben Wolf
And I think that's ultimately why we ended up with what we've got. But it didn't make it doesn't make sense for people that live in cities. It's it's we end up wasting a huge amount of our income and our time, because that's the only choice in many places that we have.
00:08:20:02 - 00:08:49:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I'm in on the channel here. I'm not antique car. I mean, I'm not I mean, again, they're wonderful tools. They just shouldn't be running our lives and we shouldn't be transforming our communities, our neighborhoods, our cities, to support as many of them as possible, going as fast as possible. And, you know, and just like you mentioned, trucks and that they're getting bigger and bigger, bigger SUVs getting bigger and bigger and bigger, that just doesn't make sense.
00:08:49:00 - 00:09:27:17
John Simmerman
It's nonsensical that we're driving tank sized vehicles in urban environments. And having grown up on a ranch in Northern California, because the family moved from Southern California to northern California, in 1972, I think after the big earthquake there. And we, you know, we had functional trucks that we used on the ranch. But at the same time, we also had a little tiny Toyota Corolla that was our fuel efficient vehicle during the last oil crisis that we, you know, drove, you know, into town of 4000 people to get around.
00:09:27:17 - 00:09:30:07
John Simmerman
And so, again, I'm not anti-caa at all.
00:09:30:09 - 00:09:49:02
Ben Wolf
So here I am, nor am I, you know, and again, I have a van to use when I have to bring my camera equipment places. There's a I agree there's a place for it. I would also add, though, it's not a difficult argument to make, to say that cars as the primary means of transportation is actually not compatible with them.
00:09:49:02 - 00:10:01:03
Ben Wolf
Cities it it literally cannot work. There is not space for everybody to get around that way. So, you know, it was always a fantasy that that was going to be the solution.
00:10:01:06 - 00:10:25:03
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah, yeah. And Peter Norton and I have has, pontificated on that several times, about the history of, of what Motor Home was promising us and what the future would be like, and we would all have our little flying cars and all that kind of good stuff that never did happen. You have provided a wonderful little teaser for, Changing Lanes, the documentary.
00:10:25:06 - 00:10:34:22
John Simmerman
Let's play That. And you know what, the whistle. And then we'll talk a little bit more about the documentary. So let's hit play here.
00:10:34:24 - 00:10:38:28
David Byrne
Friends ask me, oh, isn't a dangerous riding around New York.
00:10:39:00 - 00:10:53:14
Teaser Audio 2
I have never seen this level of civil misbehavior right in your face. And it's affront to our dignity. It happened overnight. A hit and run killed a man in Brooklyn. Police say the victim was crossing the street when he was hit. The driver just kept going.
00:10:53:20 - 00:10:59:15
Teaser Audio 2
Kids are arguing, saying that's not possible. He was teaching me in my classroom yesterday.
00:10:59:18 - 00:11:13:08
Teaser Audio 3
For years, we had been trying to undo the car culture laws which favor cars and motorists. Regardless of what happened to people, human life matters a lot more than cars and trucks in this city.
00:11:13:10 - 00:11:21:12
Teaser Audio 2
It is. The NYC Department of Transportation is moving ahead with changes. We don't want people to stay for her.
00:11:21:14 - 00:11:26:15
Teaser Audio 4
It's unfortunate that everyone feels as though you must lose so I can win. Don't get me wrong.
00:11:26:18 - 00:11:35:25
David Byrne
We have a natural tendency to assume that the way things are is inevitable. That's just not true. They can change and in some places they do.
00:11:36:00 - 00:11:45:18
Teaser Audio 2
No country has ever been wealthier than America is right now. We should expect world class infrastructure and world class design. In the words.
00:11:45:18 - 00:11:46:20
Teaser Audio 2
Of Jane Jacobs.
00:11:46:23 - 00:11:52:08
Teaser Audio 2
Cities have the capability of providing something for everybody only when they are created.
00:11:52:08 - 00:11:52:17
Teaser Audio 2
By.
00:11:52:17 - 00:11:57:11
Teaser Audio 2
Everybody who.
00:11:57:13 - 00:12:27:26
John Simmerman
Love it. Yeah, that was so good. I love that teaser. And it really, got me stoked to watch the documentary. And I have folks, I have had the opportunity to to view it. I also love the fact that you teased into that teaser the different mayors addressing this, beautiful touch, especially because as we end up as you do, the viewers will discover when you watch the documentary.
00:12:27:28 - 00:12:41:21
John Simmerman
This was a long, drawn out battle. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, you had to be like, wait a minute, this is still going on. You know?
00:12:41:23 - 00:13:11:18
Ben Wolf
Yeah. Well, so, you know, you can argue. So my movie is specifically about a specific street in Brooklyn called McGuinness Boulevard that was created in the 1950s from a it was when a small residential street was sort of doubled in width by knocking down 500 houses and turned into almost a highway type of four lane, motor vehicle, a boulevard through a residential community.
00:13:11:21 - 00:13:45:12
Ben Wolf
From the very beginning, people were from the very beginning a people were getting hurt and killed there. And from the very beginning, there was a lot of, objection to it. But as is the case with many of these, Robert Moses projects, this this was one of them, they just sort of rammed it through. And, the particular story that I follow really kicks off in 2021, when a sort of beloved teacher in the community is killed crossing the street on his birthday.
00:13:45:15 - 00:14:06:20
Ben Wolf
And, Starting then, the community which head off. You know, I think what happened is every time there would be a death, there would be a certain sort of inflammation and effort. But maybe this time was a little different for a variety of reasons. And that's maybe the biggest question my movie talks about is why does change happen ever?
00:14:06:21 - 00:14:42:24
Ben Wolf
Like, it's very interesting to contemplate. Okay. And, you know, we could spend the whole our whole time just talking about that, but, I followed the sort of effort for about three years to do something about the street that had been causing so much trouble. And because the finally, I guess, the right combination of, of sort of activism and political leaders and, and a real tragedy, and also back dealing and corruption that tried to stop the changes from happening.
00:14:42:24 - 00:15:07:13
Ben Wolf
But it all played out in a very specific and somewhat unpredictable and quite dramatic way, where and without giving a what, I don't want to give away all the details, but but in the end, we did see a dramatic change to a very dangerous street, and it is now a considerably safer street and a considerably more pleasant street to for a variety of users that aren't only automobiles now.
00:15:07:15 - 00:15:35:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. The, Yeah. And I too won't give away the ending of it because, you know, I'm, I'm based in Hawaii now. I just moved back here, after 11 years of living in Austin, Texas. And so, even throughout my time in, in Austin, and prior to that, here on Hawai'i Island, I was following all of these stories, you know, New York City.
00:15:35:27 - 00:16:00:07
John Simmerman
I mean, it's it is the the epicenter of a lot of this good work that has been happening in city transformation and fighting back against the car. And, you know, you know, you have the opportunity to, to, to interview, to sort of con, as part of the movie. And of course, she was a rock star.
00:16:00:07 - 00:16:28:24
John Simmerman
Our world, you know, from 2007 until 2013 under the Bloomberg administration, she did some amazing things. A story, transformations. And so, we follow New York City, very closely. But even I didn't know the intricacies of the story that you end up telling. And that's the beauty of a documentary like this, is we oftentimes just get brushstrokes of, you know, what?
00:16:29:02 - 00:16:51:29
John Simmerman
What happened? What didn't happen. Oh, we've got style. Oh, you know, maybe it's back up again or whatever, but the level of detail that you can go into in filming a documentary, and I love the fact that you're doing this, coming at it with basically fresh eyes. You're somebody who rides a bike. You used to to race.
00:16:52:01 - 00:17:14:04
John Simmerman
That's similar to my background. I was in public health, but I was also an Ironman distance triathlete. And so for 20 years I was, you know, I was racing. I was trying to make it here to Kona to, you know, do the big dance at the World Championships. And so my introduction to the built environment was sort of a head slap, you know, sort of like getting my teeth kicked in.
00:17:14:04 - 00:17:46:20
John Simmerman
And in terms of moving from Boulder, Colorado, where it was very safe and inviting to ride a bike, moving to Honolulu, where I'm like, oh my God, I just moved to Paradise. But it feels like a pretty taking, putting my life in my hands every time I go and ride a bike. And so there's that little that orientation of I came about the built environment and and all of that from also from that quote unquote bike racing side of things of where I just wanted to go out and train.
00:17:46:23 - 00:17:59:26
John Simmerman
And yet it was so hostile of an environment I couldn't do that. So very, very I could be very similar. And I'm not sure if that's part of the story of how you came to this. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:59:29 - 00:18:08:12
Ben Wolf
Well, anybody that did tries to get around on a bike, I find becomes quite passionate about the subject. I mean, it's, it's it's a very.
00:18:08:14 - 00:18:10:15
John Simmerman
Oh you mean like this guy. Hey.
00:18:10:18 - 00:18:37:15
Ben Wolf
Yeah. Like that guy. But it's, you know, because it's a you do it because you love doing it, and but at the same time, unfortunately, you often feel that you're sort of taking real risks with your life. So it's something that people get very passionate about and, for understandable reasons. David Byrne is someone I had worked with on some other films, and, I knew that he was an avid cyclist.
00:18:37:15 - 00:19:04:26
Ben Wolf
And so I reached out to him when I was getting started on this project. You know, initially, largely just because of his celebrity status, I thought this will help sort of elevate the the film, but but in fact, he's also an incredibly thoughtful person and and ends up being a, a great interview. He's also a great person to talk about a the changes in the city because he's, you know, he's been doing this for riding around the city now for over 40 years, even more longer than me.
00:19:04:28 - 00:19:15:09
Ben Wolf
And he's also somebody that has written all over the world. So he was a very good voice to be able to say, you know, talk about Copenhagen and, and compare that to what's happening here.
00:19:15:15 - 00:19:38:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. I'm really glad that you had David, as part of the movie. He is he has a very, very famous book, Bicycle Diaries, that he wrote, you know, a decade plus ago and really chronicled, you know, the fact that he did he took his bike, a folding bike with him on tour, you know, while he was traveling around the world with the talking Heads.
00:19:38:22 - 00:19:39:27
Ben Wolf
And he still does.
00:19:39:27 - 00:20:20:07
John Simmerman
And he still does. Yeah, yeah. And he still does. I've always dreamed that these issues could bubble out of our bubble. The echo chamber of the street safety world and the urbanism world and the cities for everybody, kind of, you know, creating all ages and abilities, cities and whenever there's quote unquote, somebody famous, you know, from the outside from, you know, that might resonate with people, you know, beyond our world, like a David Byrne like, you know, fill in the blank dot, dot, dot, whomever.
00:20:20:10 - 00:20:42:09
John Simmerman
I just like, salivate going, oh, man, maybe this will finally start permeating so that, you know, people will kind of understand where we're at, because I mentioned it earlier, like fish and water, we just don't think about the fact that our built environment that surrounds us is so dysfunctional.
00:20:42:11 - 00:21:08:02
Ben Wolf
Yes. Correct. Right. I'm also surprised that it's not a bigger issue when it comes to like, look, you know, elections in general, you don't hear candidates saying, my idea. It's this my idea is that it's usually like homeless people or, you know, crime like. But in fact, I think far more people are probably, affected by traffic violence, for instance, that are, that are, you know, killed by crazy murderer or people.
00:21:08:02 - 00:21:32:04
Ben Wolf
It's just but for some, whatever reason, I find it odd that that it isn't a bigger in the public consciousness also because you can see in other parts of the world, clearly, it has been a major concern, and they've dealt with it in a much more comprehensive, aggressive, holistic way than we have. And, so I and I don't have the answers exactly.
00:21:32:04 - 00:21:49:29
Ben Wolf
But I do wonder what's what's different about us. Why, you know, why is why why did Paris just, you know, make huge strides in a pretty short amount of time and somehow here, still painting a some paint down the street is something that people just go bananas about, you know? It's it.
00:21:50:02 - 00:22:30:19
John Simmerman
The answer to that question is there's a lot of nuance in and how Paris was able to to get to where they are now and the journey that they were on. But yeah, it didn't happen overnight. There was strong leadership, just like, you know, even New York City had strong leadership. And in fact, sometimes and, and, and I really appreciated the fact that, you know, again, I learned something new about Bloomberg, you know, before he brought on Janette Sadiq Khan, he he made some pretty boneheaded decisions, I think.
00:22:30:21 - 00:22:54:02
John Simmerman
And and that's okay. I mean, that's that's fine. We can't expect that the, that people are going to be perfect in this realm because again, it isn't it isn't obvious for, for for people, the general population. I mean most people have no clue that, you know, nearly what is it, 115 people perish on our streets every single day.
00:22:54:04 - 00:23:23:04
John Simmerman
It's like the size of a mid-size regional jet crashing every day, day after day, if that. If it were an airplane that was crashing of that size day after day. By the third or fourth day, we have congressional hearings. I mean, it would be leading the news on every single channel. But because it's so dispersed, it just doesn't it doesn't lead, it doesn't resonate with people.
00:23:23:06 - 00:23:33:04
John Simmerman
And that's to say nothing of the hundreds. Literally thousands of serious injuries that are also happening along with those fatalities every single day.
00:23:33:04 - 00:24:11:10
Ben Wolf
That's right. But I think it's more than just that. It's dispersed. I think it also has some parallels with gun violence. It's it's also that that the status quo is as dysfunctional for individuals as it is very good for very big and very powerful financial business interests. And those interests have proportionally a huge amount of political power. And I think that's that's again, without getting like overly conspiratorial, I think it's just the simple truth that the one of the main we've gotten what we've gotten is, you know, the car in particular is the biggest expense most households have after their housing.
00:24:11:12 - 00:24:40:14
Ben Wolf
This is a great way to siphon money from hardworking Americans into, you know, corporate hands. Transit bikes, pedestrians. They don't do that. And pedestrians, transit cycling, those aren't, generally super well organized political groups. I think when they manage to get themselves organized, you actually, as as happens in my movie, you know, that's when you do see some change happening.
00:24:40:16 - 00:24:47:00
Ben Wolf
But too much of the time, they're not organized and versus a really organized, you know, a business interest.
00:24:47:03 - 00:24:59:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, let's, let's lean into some of the images that you passed along and tell a little bit of the narrative, a little bit of the story. What do you want to share about this particular image?
00:24:59:17 - 00:25:23:09
Ben Wolf
Right. Well, the reason I included this, this is actually me. That's my back. And, on the and the on a dedicated bike lane on the Brooklyn Bridge was only created a couple of years ago. It used to be that you were sort of dodging pedestrians. And this has been a real improvement, and it involved taking away a lane from cars and, and, people, you know, as always said, oh, this is going to be catastrophic or whatever.
00:25:23:09 - 00:25:52:27
Ben Wolf
And of course, it's not at all. And and it's much safer to bike across the bridge now anyway. The one of my ideas in making this film was to see if I could make it, without using the the van that I usually would use to move equipment around. So I bought this little trailer and, because the filming equipment has been also sort of shrinking over the time I've been doing this, I thought maybe it's gotten to the point where I can pretty much take what I need.
00:25:52:27 - 00:26:22:25
Ben Wolf
And this little trailer and I did. I made the whole movie, getting around this way. Most things that, you know, McGuinness Boulevard is about five miles from where I live. So it wasn't terribly far and flat. So, you know, yeah. So it was a kind of a fun experiment and a good story. Initially, I thought that sort of my traveling around the city was going to sort of be a bigger part of the movie than it ended up being, but I think it's a it was a fun kind of thing to see if I could pull off.
00:26:22:25 - 00:26:25:00
Ben Wolf
And ultimately I did.
00:26:25:02 - 00:26:32:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. That's fantastic. And yeah, you were essentially invisible from From My eyes, you know, from the film.
00:26:32:22 - 00:27:02:07
Ben Wolf
Yeah. Except for this, I think. That's right. This is a shot of Fifth Avenue, which is, sort of typical, car dominated part of New York City. Still, there are plans to change it, but at this point, as as, Henry Grabar says in the movie, the the the more space is dedicated to cars here, but far more people are on the sidewalks that are in those cars.
00:27:02:07 - 00:27:28:11
Ben Wolf
So one could argue that this isn't a very, logical way to use this very precious real estate. It's also, you know, if you're going to ride a bike downtown, southbound in Manhattan, which is the direction that Fifth Avenue goes, this is probably not an avenue you want to be on, because it's it is it's speeding cars and no real place for you to be, other than squeezed by the curb.
00:27:28:13 - 00:27:37:13
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Now, you mentioned, a gentleman, Henry, he's recently published a book himself, I believe. Right.
00:27:37:15 - 00:27:40:09
Ben Wolf
Yeah. It's about parking. Primarily, I think.
00:27:40:09 - 00:27:42:24
John Simmerman
It's called Paved Paradise or paved something.
00:27:42:28 - 00:28:11:03
Ben Wolf
Yeah. That. That's right. Paradise. And he's, he's one of my interviews, mostly giving sort of a bit more historical context about, about the rise of the automobile in the city. Parking is I had a whole section of the movie on parking that ended up on the cutting room floor, because it's just that it's such a big story, but it is an important part of the.
00:28:11:05 - 00:28:12:20
John Simmerman
Well, it is really.
00:28:12:22 - 00:28:37:22
Ben Wolf
Yeah. We've given up a huge amount of this very precious public resource to the storage of private property and only only specific private property, only cars. You can't put your couch out there. You can't. And you know, and anyway, there's a lot of good arguments that, and we're starting to see that in, in parts of New York where they in some cases it's difficult because people get infuriated when you take away their free parking.
00:28:37:24 - 00:28:56:26
Ben Wolf
But I learned you there were free parking in New York City. Free overnight parking only started in the 1950s. I mean, this doesn't go back oh, that long? Prior to that, people thought this is not an appropriate use of the street to people to just leave their vehicles. But again, the sort of inertia of that car was powerful that that had happened.
00:28:56:29 - 00:29:19:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and I've had the, the honor of having, Professor Donald Shoup, on the channel a couple of times. In fact, I was able to interview him, a just before his passing, and and. Yeah, he wrote the book on it. 700 page tome, the high cost of free parking. And he, you know, tells the story very well and eloquently.
00:29:19:13 - 00:29:50:01
John Simmerman
And it it parking is insidious in that it it's a big part of the reason why we have the challenges that we have because, that is that that concept of, oh, will I have a place to park my car and will it be free? And if it is, it's like a fertility drug for for cars, as he used to like to say, is that, you know, if it's free or underpriced, then you'll more likely drive more.
00:29:50:01 - 00:30:00:28
John Simmerman
But if it's expensive, either to store it at your house as well as at your destination, you there's probably a greater likelihood you're not going to just drive.
00:30:01:00 - 00:30:18:08
Ben Wolf
You know, what are you talking about? About the water that we live in. I mean, the problem also is that we've created the expectation that that parking should be free and that it's an entire, you know, that everyone's entitled to that and that's it. That's it's not in the Bill of rights, you know, it's it's it's something that that wasn't always the case.
00:30:18:10 - 00:30:27:10
Ben Wolf
It was a series of choices that were made. And those those choices can be different. Yeah. You know, if society decides that that should happen.
00:30:27:12 - 00:30:31:27
John Simmerman
But then I'm paying taxes. I mean, my gosh. Yeah.
00:30:31:29 - 00:30:51:27
Ben Wolf
That's right. But you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't need to tell you, but I mean, I do think it's worth considering, you know, I'm paying taxes too. And I want to be able to ride my bike safely on that street and, you know, and that's that space that we've devoted to ten people to keep their vehicles. There could be thousands of people using it for other purposes.
00:30:51:27 - 00:30:54:11
Ben Wolf
So it doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:30:54:13 - 00:30:56:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. It doesn't okay. Yeah.
00:30:56:03 - 00:31:25:00
Ben Wolf
In contrast to Fifth Avenue, this is, the West Side of Manhattan. That's what's called the West Side Highway. And this is called the West Side Greenway, which was created, around the in part during the genius, not a con Bloomberg era, but it's a dedicated, bicycle lane that's between the the river and the highway. And, so it's a great way to.
00:31:25:03 - 00:31:35:00
Ben Wolf
And it runs pretty much the whole length of Manhattan. So it's, it's a great way to go north and south in the city safely for the most part, much safer than mixing with traffic.
00:31:35:03 - 00:32:00:19
John Simmerman
And for the listening and for the listening only audience. I'll describe this just a little bit in this is a very, very ample, two way cycle track. Lane, you know, for, for active mobility and it is separated away from the motor vehicles, the multi lanes of motor vehicles with trees. Thank you so very much. I mean that's that that's one of the things that is so incredibly important that we have that buffer.
00:32:00:19 - 00:32:10:18
John Simmerman
We have a separation. And please cities whenever possible have trees in there. Get some street trees in there. That really is is a really important.
00:32:10:18 - 00:32:19:03
Ben Wolf
No it's beautiful. I mean it's kind of a linear park. It really is. Yes, exactly. Because all day you see birds and you know it's it's a lovely experience.
00:32:19:06 - 00:32:31:21
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. This is, an overhead map of McGuinness Boulevard. The the the strode. Are you familiar with the term strode?
00:32:31:24 - 00:32:32:15
Ben Wolf
I am.
00:32:32:17 - 00:32:55:18
John Simmerman
Yes, the strode in question. You mentioned that it's. They widened it and they took down 500 plus homes and businesses and did this. In other words, they you know, it's that sort of that concept of let's make way for progress. And we're going to, you know, prioritize cars. And but at the same time, it's not a highway, it's not limited access.
00:32:55:18 - 00:33:19:19
John Simmerman
There's all sorts of intersections. It's a it's the dangerous, the, the most dangerous type of automobile infrastructure that we can build because there is so many conflicts, there are so many intersections. And yet it encourages fast speed. Chuck Marone, who coined the term, he likes to say that it's the futon of transportation. You know, it's it's it's a hybrid.
00:33:19:19 - 00:33:28:19
John Simmerman
It's a mash up, and it doesn't do either role very well. So tell us what you want to tell us about McGuinness and this overhead here.
00:33:28:21 - 00:34:01:29
Ben Wolf
Right. Well, for one thing, it's just situated so that you understand is going right through Greenpoint, which was a more industrial neighborhood than it presently is. It's sort of a largely gentrified neighborhood now. It's the other thing that is about a mile long. It's, but the other thing to notice it is connecting to highways. And, and it was probably always the intention that it would be sort of a shortcut between two highways, as opposed to a thing that's allowing people locally to just, you know, move a few blocks in their neighborhood.
00:34:01:29 - 00:34:27:29
Ben Wolf
So, so perversely, the whole even concept of it was you should be able to, you know, jump off one highway and speed across this mile and jump on the other highway. That is prescription for disaster. You're going to speed between highways through a residential community. So it shouldn't come as a great surprise that, that this was, so dangerous for so long.
00:34:28:01 - 00:34:53:28
John Simmerman
You, you have one of my favorite, authors in this this realm in the in the documentary, Jesse Singer, who wrote the book, there are no accidents. And this is not an accident. I mean, the fact that we are injuring so many people and killing so many, so many people, these are not accidents. These are predictable outcomes of a flawed system.
00:34:54:00 - 00:35:17:08
Ben Wolf
Correct? Correct. And this is like it's hard to even argue with, with this particular one. The statistics were just so, clear. This is another shot of McGuinness. Before any, you know, the the existing the McGuinness of the last 70 years, sort of highway like street. Where about it believe half of the traffic is what they call cut through traffic, which is just moving from one highway to the other.
00:35:17:11 - 00:35:26:23
John Simmerman
So nobody likes to have plentiful fast moving cars.
00:35:26:25 - 00:36:12:19
John Simmerman
In their neighborhood, roaring past their front porch or their front stoop. Nobody wants that. And yet we tolerate this. It's it's one of the the conundrums. Right? It's like we impose this on others because we want the convenience of thinking that we can go fast. But on our residential street that is over there, where we are fortunate and privileged enough to live, or if we live somewhere else and we're commuting in, because you've made the point that the vast majority of people who live in this community, they don't even drive cars, or if they have a car, they're not driving it on a regular basis.
00:36:12:19 - 00:36:38:09
John Simmerman
Maybe it's something they use at in holiday times or on the weekend. But for getting around them, we're going to be walking, biking, using transit. Talk about and that's that had to drive you a little bit nuts coming into this. I mean, I'm used to it because again, I've been swimming in this for the last 20, 25 years, but that had to just be like a real eye opener for you when you're like looking at this going, this is so nonsensical.
00:36:38:09 - 00:36:42:28
John Simmerman
Do people not see how the hypocrisy here?
00:36:43:00 - 00:37:03:14
Ben Wolf
Yeah it is. I weirdly, though, this fight is the same fight. I was aware of this. This has happened sort of everywhere in the city where these changes happened. There's, for one thing, one of the arguments against reducing traffic here was that that traffic will just go on to the quiet side streets that is. And that is an argument.
00:37:03:14 - 00:37:11:13
Ben Wolf
It is generally not what happens, but that is an argument which goes to what you're saying. That's people sort of like, I just want the traffic on my block off it. Sure, sure.
00:37:11:15 - 00:38:01:14
John Simmerman
Well, in can I jump in and say it, say that it's also a valid sort of concern, but it's also a concern that can be addressed. And the way that you address that is you ensure that those quiet, low volume, low speed neighborhood streets are also not cut through worthy. In other words, there's modal filters and you have techniques and strategies so that the only option for this sort of right sizing of a street to a safer, you know, more flexible mobility corridor, which encourages active mobility and hopefully encourages more people to mode shift.
00:38:01:16 - 00:38:17:01
John Simmerman
Is that we get what we call in the in this in this wonky world traffic evaporation. It's what happens when the Embarcadero Freeway went down in San Francisco. It's like it where all that traffic go. They have no idea. It kind of evaporated.
00:38:17:03 - 00:38:36:12
Ben Wolf
That's right. And that's this is, this is quite counterintuitive. And and I think people don't understand that. And it drives a lot of the opposition to these projects. And I would say that's one of the main reasons where I, why I made this movie. I hope in some small way it can contribute to a little greater awareness of, you know, a lot of street design and stuff.
00:38:36:12 - 00:39:03:28
Ben Wolf
Your first assumption about what's going to happen is may not be correct. You know, this stuff doesn't doesn't all isn't all incredibly so obvious as you think it is. And, the other thing I would say just about that previous shot is although although people living there might prefer not to have all this traffic, the businesses on such streets very often believe that that is good for their business.
00:39:04:05 - 00:39:05:24
Ben Wolf
And they often believe.
00:39:05:26 - 00:39:10:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, I'm glad that you use that. Yeah, that belief.
00:39:10:06 - 00:39:34:11
Ben Wolf
Again, the truth is, in most cases, the businesses do better after the traffic is reduced. But again, people make quick assumptions without actually doing their homework. And because there seems to be a lot of sort of, I think very good information out there readily available to people. I think people just are often sort of just misled.
00:39:34:11 - 00:40:02:21
Ben Wolf
And there's also some bad actors involved who are sort of happy to exploit, you know, the easy assumptions people make. And, but it's not that simple. And like in the case of this street, most of the resistance ultimately came from, a couple of, business owners who were, you know, sort of manipulating the situation. It's not clear to me those business owners may have been working in their against their own interests.
00:40:02:27 - 00:40:07:22
Ben Wolf
Honestly, it's not clear, you know, but they really didn't want this to happen.
00:40:07:24 - 00:40:38:13
John Simmerman
Well, sometimes it's it's a a situation where they're misinformed. Again, this could be counterintuitive. They just believe in their at the at their in their bones. They believe that that this can't be the right thing. We have to have, you know, more lanes not fewer lanes, you know and and it's really, really difficult. You mentioned that the data isn't necessarily readily available.
00:40:38:15 - 00:40:44:20
John Simmerman
Quite the opposite. I mean, the data is very, very clear. And it's been demonstrated in multiple occasions.
00:40:44:22 - 00:40:54:06
Ben Wolf
I it's not that it's not readily available, but that it hasn't been packaged in a way that the public is, is consume, you know, is understands it or gets it. And the case needs to be made.
00:40:54:09 - 00:41:22:05
John Simmerman
And even if it was been, they wouldn't accept it. If it's being delivered by me, they wouldn't accept it. They might accept it if it's being delivered by, you know, somebody like you as a documentary, you know, filmmaker, but they really want to hear it from their peers, sure, that they identify with. And I don't I don't blame them for, for that.
00:41:22:07 - 00:41:34:27
John Simmerman
But like if they hear it from other peer business owners, and it's in a different city, it's in a different state, or God forbid, it's in a different country there it's like, oh, well, we're not them.
00:41:34:29 - 00:41:46:07
Ben Wolf
That's, you know, it's it's it's not so damn, you hear all the time in New York, you know, it's to the next neighborhood is done these changes. But somehow your neighborhood that you're convinced is different. That's why you hear this comment.
00:41:46:09 - 00:42:29:17
John Simmerman
You just mentioned Amsterdam. And, you know, the the colleagues of mine that are working there in the Netherlands, you know, they remind us all the time that, yeah, in Amsterdam wasn't Amsterdam, you know, you know, it it is the Amsterdam that we know now is not what existed in the 1950s and 1960s into the 1970s. There was a confluence of things that were happening in the 1970s, including the stop, the Kinder Mort movement, which is very analogous to what we see here in terms of the, leaning in towards we should have safer streets, we should not be killing people.
00:42:29:20 - 00:42:57:13
John Simmerman
It wasn't the only factor that sort of changed directions for the Dutch. There was also the oil, embargo of the 1972 1973 Iran situation. It's mind boggling that we're dealing with that again. But, you know, there was other things happening, too. There was a countercultural movement. There was the Vietnam War was going on. There was other things with housing going on.
00:42:57:16 - 00:43:26:01
John Simmerman
But the the cut to the chase, it was very, very close. A lot of these votes that happened within these cities, Amsterdam, Groningen, many others came down to like even like a one vote margin of whether they would start to transform the streets into, more people oriented places and de-emphasizing the movement, fast movement of plentiful automobiles.
00:43:26:03 - 00:43:44:17
John Simmerman
Fast forward 50 some odd years and it is a completely different world, but it took a lot of work and there was a lot of protests just like this. And in some cases they were they were violent protests. I mean, there was there was all sorts of altercations that took place on the streets.
00:43:44:20 - 00:43:49:15
Ben Wolf
Absolutely. We talk in this film quite a bit about Copenhagen, which is a similar story. Exactly.
00:43:49:15 - 00:44:07:08
John Simmerman
Yes. Similar timeline too, by the way. You know, the Copenhagen they they also got caught up in the, the oil, situation as well. So it was right in that same window of, of 1972, 1973 and 1974, right in that sure frame.
00:44:07:13 - 00:44:08:06
John Simmerman
Yeah.
00:44:08:08 - 00:44:30:12
Ben Wolf
And they had to be a bit beyond the scope of my film. But a you can you can ask yourself why why did these changes although yes, they took a long time and they weren't easy, but they did happen in those places and they have mostly happened here. And I do think part of the answer is those places do tend to be more homogenous.
00:44:30:15 - 00:44:51:08
Ben Wolf
A place like New York is so diverse. It's it's a lot harder, I think, to get the whole community behind, you know, something. And, and it's a lot easier for politicians to drive wedges in and, you know, peel off this group in that group and, and sort of stir up, stir up controversies where we really should be trying to find some consensus.
00:44:51:10 - 00:45:02:19
Ben Wolf
So I think that's, that's how I think a difference in American politics. And one of the reasons we're having so much trouble, in my opinion, sort of making the kind of changes that, that, that have happened more in other places.
00:45:02:21 - 00:45:31:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. One of the things that I like to emphasize to here on the channel is that, transforming our built environment, transforming our streets into streets for people, is bigger and broader and more impactful than just creating safer streets. But creating safer streets is like the baseline. It's the least that we could be doing. We should also be making them beautiful.
00:45:31:15 - 00:46:00:12
John Simmerman
We should be making them welcoming. We should be making them inviting. We should be working with businesses to get them on board for incentivizing this. One of the great things that, Donald Trump did, and he talked about a lot in his book, When they Transform parking, in downtown Pasadena, which was, you know, just downtrodden and, and just kind of when I worked on Colorado Boulevard back in the early 1990s, it was like a hellhole.
00:46:00:19 - 00:46:35:07
John Simmerman
You know, you wouldn't even want to be in that part of Pasadena because the life had been sucked out of there. But what did they do? They leveraged on street parking and the revenue coming from that to reinvest in. And that brought the whole circus cycle around of where? Oh, yeah. If we have more people in there walking, biking and, and we've got revenue pumping in, we can actually if we're creating streets for people and vibrant people oriented streets, it's also good for business.
00:46:35:10 - 00:46:54:07
John Simmerman
And so it's it's like all of these things, it's good for public health, it's good for safety. It's good for business. It's good for the environment. It's like, wow, what is it not good for? Well, it's not good for motor dumb and driving fast through those areas. So yeah.
00:46:54:09 - 00:46:56:18
Ben Wolf
I agree completely.
00:46:56:21 - 00:47:19:01
John Simmerman
So you give you give like this. This is like an overhead. This is like my world here of of looking at these things and this reminds me of a lot of the, the drawings that, are in the Nadeau manuals. And, walk us through this image, and especially for the listening only audience. What what are we looking at here?
00:47:19:04 - 00:47:48:16
Ben Wolf
Well, this was the, the proposal that ultimately was, agreed upon by the and presented by the D.O.T. of what to do with McGuinness boulevard. And it it basically involves taking away two car lanes, putting in protected bike lanes on each side, moving the street parking from curb to inside, you know, between the car, the bike lanes and the car lanes and having a nice big median in between.
00:47:48:18 - 00:48:04:16
Ben Wolf
It also and involved, putting in loading zones, which you can see in the sort of the lower right of this frame, to accommodate, you know, because businesses have to do business and understandably, they need to be able to get their goods to the curb. And, so that was part of the plan.
00:48:04:20 - 00:48:21:20
John Simmerman
So let's, let's, let's like highlight some of these things. So we've got loading zones. Good. That's awesome. Last thing in the world is we we you know we don't need more double parking and and more blockage of, of all of that. So loading zones are critical.
00:48:21:22 - 00:48:30:11
Ben Wolf
Once you've gone down to only one motor vehicle lane in each direction, you can't double park anymore, which is a good thing, but it does mean you do need you need loading zone.
00:48:30:13 - 00:49:04:14
John Simmerman
Well, in what's great about one motor vehicle lane in each direction, especially when they're sized appropriately, we bring down the heat, we bring down that that speed. And again, this has been a road that has been forced fitted into a, a dynamic, diverse, dynamic area. You know, there's so much activity happening. And yet we're, you know, we've treated it like a traffic sewer and trying to move things through as fast as possible.
00:49:04:16 - 00:49:31:22
John Simmerman
We also have, parked cars there as well. So we have a parking protected bike lane, active mobility lane. And I love, you know, looking at this and saying, this is not taking away a motor vehicle traffic lane. What we're really doing is giving additional mobility options. We're making it actually. In other words, it's it's not a takeaway.
00:49:31:28 - 00:49:54:25
John Simmerman
If you drive, you still have the ability to drive. And in fact, you know, you can say, you know, thank you very much to us and everybody else who's fighting for these types of changes, because you will much be much more likely to not die on the street now or be seriously injured on this street now, because it's going to be a safer environment for you.
00:49:54:25 - 00:50:20:13
John Simmerman
The driver as well, which you're welcome. You know, we that's what we're striving for is to create streets for people, all people, all ages, all abilities and all mobility modes. So what this really is, is a transformation of the street space, less of taking things away and more of giving more options and more freedom, more mobility options.
00:50:20:15 - 00:50:29:14
Ben Wolf
I mean, a couple other notes about this one. It's somewhat of a conservative plan and that you still have on street parking on both sides. They didn't, you know, take away the parking. So that's still there.
00:50:29:16 - 00:50:49:00
John Simmerman
Well, what I love about that, Ben, is, is that the fact that it is still there, parking is still there. We're leveraging it to create even more of a barrier for the active modes. And since it is wide enough to be able to make that happen, I'm fine with that. Now. Would I like it to be paid parking?
00:50:49:06 - 00:50:53:12
John Simmerman
Hell yes. Sure. You know, and I don't know if it is, but, I.
00:50:53:17 - 00:51:03:06
Ben Wolf
Think in some places it is, but I'm not. Another note about this is it radically shorten the the crossing. The crossing. Thank you for, pedestrian.
00:51:03:13 - 00:51:30:12
John Simmerman
Because honestly, that's one of the big things, Ben, that we have to really understand is these are not bicycle infrastructure projects. These are projects to try to create a more livable neighborhood, a more livable community, a more vibrant community, more successful community. And oh, by the way, one of the things that you want with that is for it be safer for pedestrians to cross the street.
00:51:30:16 - 00:51:34:06
John Simmerman
So thank you for for highlighting that. That's a huge part of this.
00:51:34:09 - 00:51:52:20
Ben Wolf
I mean, another way that I've been thinking about it is whether you make these changes or not. These streets are going to be used for a variety of purposes. People are going to walk, people are going to bike, people are going to drive. You either acknowledge that and respect the different things people are doing on the street or you don't.
00:51:52:27 - 00:52:10:16
Ben Wolf
And to me, in a democracy, a democracy is about finding reasonable compromises to accommodate everybody in the democracy. And so, you know, it doesn't seem outrageous to me to to acknowledge, you know, what? There are people cycling here and let's give them a place.
00:52:10:18 - 00:52:42:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. So whenever we try to transform our built environment, and particularly when we try to transform our streets, the opposition comes out and sometimes the opposition is, is led by some bad actors and some individuals who have. And that's probably not even a fair characterization. Sometimes it's led by people who are misinformed and just don't understand. And then get caught up in a narrative that's kind of not true.
00:52:42:18 - 00:53:03:18
John Simmerman
But then they kind of sway people who are in the middle. The vast majority of people aren't thinking about this all day long like I'm thinking about it. The vast majority of people are just trying to live their lives, and then they can easily be swayed to one side or the another or another based on the message is being delivered.
00:53:03:18 - 00:53:36:18
John Simmerman
And oftentimes the opposition delivers a message of fear and that this is going to cause havoc and destroy our lives. And, and the the interesting thing that they have on their side is that they have the status quo. They have the current condition on the ground. And so it's easier for them to be able to say, we just need to just keep what we have, don't change it because it's not great, but it's kind of working.
00:53:36:25 - 00:53:40:22
John Simmerman
What they're proposing is insanity is is part of their message.
00:53:40:24 - 00:54:10:20
Ben Wolf
Absolutely. This is a picture of from one of the, protests from the folks, that called themselves, keep McGinnis moving. Who are the ones that oppose make McGinnis safe. So keep McGinnis moving. Yeah. And it is a combination of of bad actors and and people with reasonable intentions who just weren't very well informed. I also think to some extent this these are often sort of proxy fights about gentrification.
00:54:10:20 - 00:54:27:06
Ben Wolf
And I think in this case, that was a big part of it. You have the you've been in this community for decades and you have the new people coming in and suddenly things are changing. And, you know, again, as you noted, people don't really like change, at least initially, maybe after a year or two, they don't notice it anymore.
00:54:27:06 - 00:54:47:18
Ben Wolf
But but when things are initially changing, they tend to get upset. They think something's being taken away from them. So that was a lot of, I think what was actually going on, a lot of very heated stuff where I felt like often the people were against it, didn't even really know the details of the plan. They were just like, no, you know, this is we don't want it.
00:54:47:22 - 00:54:52:12
Ben Wolf
We don't want it. Period. Hard to argue with that.
00:54:52:14 - 00:54:55:13
John Simmerman
Why don't you explain this? This still shot? Yeah. Here.
00:54:55:15 - 00:55:00:29
Ben Wolf
Yeah. This was a, Again, I'm reluctant to get into all of the twists.
00:55:01:01 - 00:55:02:28
John Simmerman
You don't want to give away too much.
00:55:03:00 - 00:55:16:24
Ben Wolf
But this this was a this is the Brooklyn borough president, Antonio Reynoso at City Hall. The man on the left of screen, the mayor was sort of wavering about whether or not to to execute this plan and when and.
00:55:16:24 - 00:55:22:14
John Simmerman
Which which mayor, which mayor at this, at this this is Adams. This is the one okay.
00:55:22:16 - 00:55:46:29
Ben Wolf
To just was replaced by Mamdani. So there was a, a very big, protest at City Hall of people that wanted, you know, they delivered at least 7000 signatures of people saying, no, we really do want this to happen. And you got a few of these cranks, this gentleman on the right of frame who just starts, he brings a megaphone.
00:55:46:29 - 00:56:25:24
Ben Wolf
He's, you know, you have several hundred people supporting the plan and you have this, you know, literally one guy running around trying to disrupt everything and saying that he's a real New Yorker and that the city is being ruined by these projects. It was a very intense, heated moment. And, I and and quite telling when you when you saw, you know, the, the numbers on one side and this solitary guy just ranting on the other side, you know, and I was very impressed with the leadership because they, they handled it, you know, it could have really gotten ugly and they, they knew how to deal with it.
00:56:26:01 - 00:56:55:19
John Simmerman
Yeah. And then this next image is David. We already talked about that. We also talked about the fact that, this project and these projects tend to transcend administrations, you know, dating back all the way to, the previous administrations, de Blasio and even, Bloomberg. So it it's for people coming from outside industries where maybe they move fast, you know, technology and startups and whatever.
00:56:55:20 - 00:57:02:04
John Simmerman
It's just like what, you guys are still talking about this, this many years later. These things really do take quite a bit of time.
00:57:02:11 - 00:57:25:10
Ben Wolf
They do. At the same time, I've also come to believe, you know, and we just saw that picture of that's outside of con like under her tenure, dramatic change was happening on a systemic level fairly quickly. So I think, you know, I think we have long waits between these sort of bursts of activity. And the bursts tend to happen when the stars align in very specific ways.
00:57:25:12 - 00:57:48:07
Ben Wolf
I unfortunately find there's more waiting than, than doing. And that seems to be the nature of our politics. It's very hard to kind of get the condition together to really make big changes to status quo step that is, quo means, you know, essentially that that the powerful are getting what they want versus the vast majority of people getting what they want.
00:57:48:07 - 00:57:53:16
Ben Wolf
And that's, it's it's always a tough, tough to overcome.
00:57:53:19 - 00:58:25:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. In this particular image, you've you share the graph, the graph that, you know, sort of highlights the differences between the United States, Europe and Japan. And you rightly tapped into the data that's per capita data, or per 100,000 people data versus the way that traffic engineers typically look at the fatality data, which is miles driven, which is just nonsensical.
00:58:25:09 - 00:58:32:28
John Simmerman
So, what else do you want to share about this particular, image in relation to, to the, the movie itself?
00:58:33:01 - 00:58:49:28
Ben Wolf
Well, I'll just say that I've been to maybe a dozen screenings of this film at different festivals and whatnot, and when this image comes out, people gasp, you know, it is the kind of thing that people, again, where I do think there's an opportunity to educate people. I think people just assume again that we're word accidents that, oh, these things happen.
00:58:49:28 - 00:59:11:19
Ben Wolf
They were inevitable. But clearly they're not happening nearly as much in other places. So clearly, you know, we could be doing something about this. And, and I think it's not hard to say morally, we must do something about this or we're complicit in these, these injuries and deaths. And, yeah.
00:59:11:19 - 00:59:42:01
John Simmerman
And I love that Japan is is represented here because you're also looking at, you know, a country that, oh, gee. Yeah, that's an auto manufacturing country. It's not like they hate cars. But you know, it's also. Yeah, in in Europe too. But they are a country that, understands that there's a place for cars in volume moving fast, and there's a place where it should be for people.
00:59:42:01 - 01:00:12:07
John Simmerman
And so Japan is is infamous and famous for the fact that children there, will routinely use transit and walk to the corner market and the store on their own at very, very, very young levels. I mean, it just blows people away. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about, just just look it up on YouTube and you'll see that there's an entire genre of of how these kids are able to navigate their streets.
01:00:12:07 - 01:00:42:10
John Simmerman
Why? Because they are low volume and low speed, and they've done a very, very good job of creating an environment that's much more kid friendly. And that's one of the reasons why we're seeing a 2.7 fatality in a car crash fatality rate per 100,000 people versus the United States, where we're at. What does that say? 14.2 I mean, it's just it's nonsensical that we're still doing this.
01:00:42:15 - 01:00:43:01
John Simmerman
Yeah.
01:00:43:03 - 01:01:06:29
Ben Wolf
I had some work in Japan a year or two ago, and I was also struck by that. There are like bike parking lots everywhere. For instance, it's you know, they take it seriously as a means of transportation. And again, I would say even in a place like New York, which has, I believe, the most urban cycling and by far of anywhere in this country, there are no bike park, you know, you just you lock up to some random sign somewhere or something.
01:01:06:29 - 01:01:17:15
Ben Wolf
It's just which in a way, we're still not respecting it as a real mode of transportation. It's it's a it's an afterthought. It's a very different area over there.
01:01:17:17 - 01:01:26:18
John Simmerman
So one of the subthemes in the documentary is this gentleman, how do you want to talk about this?
01:01:26:21 - 01:01:50:11
Ben Wolf
So George Bliss is is a real bohemian, a real old school New Yorker. He's a kind of industrial designer who's been building funky bikes for, like, 40 years. And, he has a kind of experimental bike shop where he makes things. And, so he's a character in the movie. In many ways. This is also a movie about activism.
01:01:50:11 - 01:02:16:23
Ben Wolf
It's about, I think it's about when government isn't delivering people, figuring out what can they do to move, to move the needle and, what George does, yeah, among other things, is he was, he's very upset as as have I been about where you do get nice bike lanes. Suddenly they're filled with very fast moving mopeds and and e-vehicles and and it almost the whole point of having the nice bike lane.
01:02:16:25 - 01:02:45:04
Ben Wolf
So he started making signs because technically, those, those, motorized vehicles shouldn't be in the bike lane, but it's not really enforced. So he made these official looking signs and started posting them everywhere. And he also created this kind of mobile billboard, which for this issue, which is his major preoccupation, and this is City Hall. So he, he, he rode this billboard over to City Hall and was was sort of a one man protest machine over there.
01:02:45:06 - 01:03:06:12
Ben Wolf
I just I love the visual of it, and I, and I love that people are not, content to just accept the status quo, even when even when the government isn't delivering. People are figuring out, what can I do? How can I have some effect, even if it's maybe a little fanciful or, you know, maybe we'll have an effect, maybe it won't.
01:03:06:12 - 01:03:11:19
Ben Wolf
But he's he's trying. And there's a there's a lot of humor in that too, which I appreciate.
01:03:11:22 - 01:03:47:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I appreciated to the in the documentary you kind of covered like the the nuance in the challenge that is the delivery workers that are, you know, oftentimes on, you know, these souped up e-bikes and scooters and mopeds and blah, blah, blah. And, and so I really encourage folks to, to not just dismiss this as like kind of a one off, because it really is part of the the challenge that we have out there on our active mobility infrastructure.
01:03:47:22 - 01:04:20:24
John Simmerman
And even the Netherlands, you know, battled through this as well. It wasn't until just recently that they were given permission, at the municipal level, at the city level, to, to be able to ban, motor vehicle, these mopeds and scooters and powerful e-bikes from the bike lanes. And there was actually a challenge all the way up to their version of the Supreme Court saying that, you know, you're discriminating against us because we are not from the Netherlands.
01:04:20:24 - 01:04:51:00
John Simmerman
And, you know, and this is a racial thing. And so they were able to navigate that, but it took them a good 3 to 4 years to be able to get to the point where they were able to give that power over to the municipality. And, each city is determining how they're going to do that. In the case of Amsterdam, it's the entire inner ring where they have banned the the powerful mopeds and scooters and powerful e-bikes that are really electric motorcycles.
01:04:51:00 - 01:04:53:13
John Simmerman
They're not really, electric assist.
01:04:53:18 - 01:05:16:16
Ben Wolf
So and it is a tricky problem, but but again, you know, as far as my experience in New York, again, when I for most of the time I was here, there were bikes and there were cars and that was it. And now you do have all of these intermediate things, some of which are legal, some of which aren't, the police are seem wholly uninterested and unaware of the distinctions.
01:05:16:16 - 01:05:44:24
Ben Wolf
And ultimately we're going to have to, you know, come up with some rules and enforce whatever those rules are. I would just add, I do think it's important just to understand, again, whether or not we make good infrastructure. These guys are out there and they're out there because we're constantly ordering stuff to be delivered. So we we either treat them like human beings that have value and you know that we care about them being alive or we don't.
01:05:44:28 - 01:05:48:07
Ben Wolf
And that says a lot about who we are as a culture.
01:05:48:10 - 01:06:24:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And one of the things that I've been very encouraged by in following the situation in, in the Netherlands is, yes, they did say that, hey, if you're on these powerful, motor vehicles, you are not supposed to be in the bike lane. You really need to be in the motor vehicle travel lane and and they they also went a step further and saying that you are on a motorcycle and you're also required to wear a helmet, you know, that's the additional thing that they did for that, knowing full well that the Dutch don't like helmets, wearing helmets.
01:06:24:02 - 01:06:49:26
John Simmerman
And so that would hopefully encourage them to get back on their bikes. But the other thing that they did, which was brilliant, is that they've also taken steps to bring down the the speed in most of these streets within this, within the city. So the city of Amsterdam, also within that ring, is now converting most streets to 30km/h.
01:06:49:28 - 01:07:16:21
John Simmerman
So for those that don't have that, that conversion in your head less than 20mph is the speed limit in, in, in these environments. And so that's, that's so that when you think of the delivery worker we yeah. Yeah. So when you think of that delivery worker in that space, at least on a street where they shouldn't, the motor vehicle traffic in general should not be traveling 40, 50mph.
01:07:16:22 - 01:07:21:24
John Simmerman
We're talking that they should be closer to 20mph. So that's a good thing.
01:07:21:27 - 01:07:47:27
Ben Wolf
And then also in New York, there's there's been some fairly aggressive movement towards slowing down the e-bikes, the like the e-bikes that are part of the bike share were going, I think 18 or 20 miles an hour. They've been reduced now system wide to 15. And I think yeah, I think that's a probably about where I think the speed limit should be for e-vehicles in the bike lane, because faster than that you go faster than most cyclists.
01:07:47:27 - 01:07:54:21
Ben Wolf
And it's you get these speed differentials that are dangerous. You know, you want to flow people going all roughly the same speed.
01:07:54:23 - 01:08:08:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Now this particular image that's on screen right now is, this wonderful image of a worker spreading Play-Doh. Honest. What what's going on here? Come on. Ben.
01:08:08:05 - 01:08:25:04
Ben Wolf
Yeah. This is what, what it actually looks like when when, street when a bike lane is being put on a street, it's, something that's it's hard. It's amazingly hard to be there at that moment. And I had to work pretty hard to to to do that. And I also I'm very fond of playing with drones.
01:08:25:04 - 01:08:29:16
Ben Wolf
And this seemed like the perfect, a perfect time.
01:08:29:19 - 01:08:30:20
John Simmerman
That's great.
01:08:30:22 - 01:08:54:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. So for the listening only audience, worker is spreading the green. The Kermit green paint, that is, is famous for, you know, our our bike lanes here in, in North America, in the United States. It is the official color of, bike lanes and conflict area, of bike lanes in, you know, in intersections.
01:08:54:11 - 01:09:07:12
John Simmerman
And so this has a narrative to this is part of the the documentary. We won't give it away because there's a little bit of this and it's like, and then the when then we get it right.
01:09:07:15 - 01:09:26:20
Ben Wolf
We get it. That's right. I was there a couple of things that you could say about that painting though, quickly. One is that it? It happens quite. It actually happens very quickly when, you know, again when and it's also this kind of just changing the markings on the street is very quick and very cheap, like these kind of infrastructure changes I think know it's out of content.
01:09:26:20 - 01:09:48:29
Ben Wolf
All of her street changes were 2% of the Dot budget. So you know, these huge fights are about a very small sliver compared to what spent on, you know, on bridges and subways and things like that. This is nothing. This is a, you know, this mile long stretch was repainted in a in a couple of days by a, you know, a dozen people.
01:09:48:29 - 01:10:00:10
Ben Wolf
It just doesn't it's it's it's so it's a huge impact for fairly trivial expense. There's a lot of design thought and planning that has to be put into it. But the exactly execution.
01:10:00:12 - 01:10:25:24
John Simmerman
The actual execution, and I advance to this, to just kind of exemplify that point. When you think about the literally hundreds of billions of dollars that is spent every single year on automobile infrastructure, it's it's just nonsensical that we are saying, oh, by bike infrastructure that's just too expensive and we can't afford that. I call bullshit on all of that.
01:10:25:24 - 01:10:51:28
John Simmerman
It's not. And the overall return on investment of me giving people mobility, choice and options has a much greater return on investment. Whereas the automobile infrastructure again cost hundreds of billions of dollars, you know, nationally, annually. And it's more likely to cost us more money in the long run than it delivers in return on investment.
01:10:51:28 - 01:11:11:22
Ben Wolf
So yeah, completely. And again, New York is a bit of a special case because again, here most people aren't using cars to begin with. So it's that's what's so odd about it. Like here, putting in this kind of pressure just means we're actually disrespecting the way people, what people are actually just doing, as opposed to saying that they aren't important and these people are important.
01:11:11:24 - 01:11:18:28
John Simmerman
And that and that brings up a good point here. So we do have this image again. This is the Brooklyn Bridge again. Right?
01:11:18:28 - 01:11:28:10
Ben Wolf
Brooklyn Bridge, this is that same bike lane that that shot of me going across that had been a you can see there were three car lanes. Now there's two and a lane for bikes.
01:11:28:13 - 01:11:57:20
John Simmerman
Exactly. And the point I want to make here is that, you know, the lane to the right of, of the bike lane there is, you know, chock full of, of cars. And again, this is part of the space inefficiency of a single occupancy motor vehicle, a car. It's just you, you know, people just are blown away when they see a city that's functioning like, see Utrecht.
01:11:57:20 - 01:12:24:00
John Simmerman
And, and you're seeing, you know, tens of thousands of people on bikes and on busses and on trams, and they're moving in, they're getting around all of that, all of that economic vitality, all of that, education and everything that's happening, the vibrancy and the vitality and the, you know, it's the platform for building wealth and prosperity and happiness.
01:12:24:02 - 01:12:31:28
John Simmerman
All of that grinds to a stop if you try to put every single one of those people in a, in a single occupancy motor vehicle. Yeah, it just doesn't work.
01:12:31:28 - 01:12:51:14
Ben Wolf
And I would bet that there are more, almost certainly more pedestrians walking on the left side of the frame than people in cars on the right side of the frame. You know that. Because as you said, there's one person in each one of those big metal boxes, you know, unless people had 20ft between them walking, you know, to make that that.
01:12:51:14 - 01:13:31:03
John Simmerman
Kind of works against us too. And we hear this all the time. It's like, oh, well, we built a bike lane and nobody's using it. Well, if you just built one bike lane and it's not a network, you're probably not going to get as many people shifting trips over there. But let's say you built an entire network. It kind of works against us because they are so incredibly efficient that it unless you are counting it like Clarence Ackerson does a wonderful job with street films of filming and counting, he can come back and say, well, actually, it may not look like there is as many people, but remember, it's space efficient, not inefficient.
01:13:31:06 - 01:13:56:09
John Simmerman
And when you actually look at the numbers, there's far more people, people than cars going through these spaces. So yeah, yeah. Good stuff Ben, to close us out, what have we not talked about about the documentary that you'd like to share for folks. And while you're doing that, I'm going to pull up, some of the upcoming screenings that are scheduled.
01:13:56:12 - 01:14:22:08
Ben Wolf
Yeah. Well, the main thing I would want to talk about is how people can see it. It's, you know, it's still screening. There will be some more screenings announced in the New York area soon. In April, 16th to 20th in Southern California will be the, official, commercial theatrical release. It'll be in four Lemley theaters, albeit three screenings, along with some special guests.
01:14:22:10 - 01:14:25:03
Ben Wolf
And,
01:14:25:06 - 01:14:50:00
Ben Wolf
Some point towards the middle of the year, it will be on one of the big streaming platforms, and that's how I expect most people will ultimately see the film. The website for the film is Changing Lanes, Doc doc.com, and I keep that up to date with screening information. If somebody is interested in having hosting a screening, they can contact me on that website.
01:14:50:03 - 01:15:03:19
Ben Wolf
So yeah, now that the film is made, but I'm just trying to get it seen as widely as possible. I think it's, the right time for having these conversations, and I think it's a good sort of conversation starter.
01:15:03:21 - 01:15:06:23
John Simmerman
How many years did it take you to film this?
01:15:06:26 - 01:15:15:23
Ben Wolf
About three, which is about normal for a documentary. But it's it seems like a long time. Yeah.
01:15:15:26 - 01:15:30:29
Ben Wolf
And and for most of the time, I was just say, what's exciting in doing it? I had no idea how this was going to play out. And, I was very fortunate that it played out in such an interesting, interesting way because it I say for most of the time I thought it was going to be a real downer.
01:15:31:01 - 01:15:32:10
John Simmerman
Yeah.
01:15:32:13 - 01:15:55:11
Ben Wolf
You know, but there were some very surprising twists and turns and ultimately a positive ending, which I think makes for a much more enjoyable film. And, and and, and more and more inspirational film giving you know, I think it does show that it in some situations persistence and, passion and advocacy, all those things, they can work.
01:15:55:14 - 01:15:57:13
Ben Wolf
It's not easy, but they could work.
01:15:57:15 - 01:16:26:16
John Simmerman
I want to point this out because this is not I mean, in your world, you in your eyes, you might be thinking, okay, well, this is a really a local story. This is a local project. This is a very special situation, New York, but really, this is universal. I mean, the fact that you're you're going to be screening there in, in Los Angeles and you also in Bellingham, Washington, this is wonderful because these fights are happening everywhere globally.
01:16:26:16 - 01:16:50:22
John Simmerman
I just got back from New Zealand and they're doing they're having the exact same challenges there. So this is universal. Yes, this is a New York story, but it's a universal story because it's a story of car dependance and how we push back from that status quo of drive everywhere for everything and change our streets into more livable places.
01:16:50:29 - 01:17:28:02
John Simmerman
And so I think that it is a much needed addition to the tome, you know, the, the, the list of documentaries and films that are addressing these things. Ben, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. And thank you so much for for making this film. One final question for you is for those cities and those advocacy organizations and those people who are like, struggling and scratching and clawing just like the, you know, these folks who are passionate about changes here on McGinnis.
01:17:28:05 - 01:17:38:23
John Simmerman
Is there a way for them to host like a screening, like for for their nonprofits or stuff like that? Will there be a mechanism at some point for, for them to do something like that?
01:17:38:25 - 01:17:55:20
Ben Wolf
Well, it's it's I think it's as simple as go to their website and send me an email and okay, all right. Let's make it. Let's make it happen. Yeah. Yeah, I it it has happened a bit and it's going to happen more. And I'm, I'm thrilled to to get it out there and to, you know, help catalyze some change.
01:17:55:23 - 01:18:17:00
John Simmerman
Well and I think it you know, and I encourage organizations to reach out to Ben and and and and say and, you know, make it a fundraiser for your organization. Make it, you know, you know, have people pay some money and invest in this. It's a beautiful product, and you're a beautiful filmmaker and you've done a great job with it.
01:18:17:03 - 01:18:27:01
John Simmerman
Took about three years to make approximately what kind of investment is this? I mean, how much money does it take to do a documentary like this?
01:18:27:03 - 01:18:45:14
Ben Wolf
Well, it's interesting. I, this was a tiny production I did. I want to say I did pretty much all of the photography, all of the interviewing, the direction. It was literally a one man band where I needed help, and they got some great helpers in the post-production and the editing. I worked with a great editor named Kristen by who?
01:18:45:14 - 01:19:11:18
Ben Wolf
I give about 50% of the credit for the for the film because it's a real challenge to weave, you know, all of these stories, sort of a coherent narrative. I also had a great, archival producer to help find that old footage named Prudence Arndt. And the other creative person that was really important was the music composer, guy named Andrew Murray.
01:19:11:21 - 01:19:33:13
Ben Wolf
All together, it was about a quarter million dollars to make this movie, which is more than I, you know, had anticipated. But it turns out it's hard to make a movie for much less than that, even when you're doing as much for free as I did. Getting the right that footage, edit editing is just a tremendous amount of work.
01:19:33:13 - 01:19:54:25
Ben Wolf
I mean, Kristen, the editor, worked for, you know, I would say approximately a year would boil down if you condensed, it would probably a full time year of work. And, you know, as a professional, that's someone that needs to be compensated. But, you know, compared to Hollywood movies, it's a drop in the bucket.
01:19:54:28 - 01:20:17:11
John Simmerman
Right? Right. Yep. So, folks, if, if you do reach out to Ben and say, hey, we'd love to be able to do this, be prepared to pay a little something to be able to do this and make this happen. Yeah. These these are expensive, ventures. I myself was, engaged for about 3 to 4 years trying to film a documentary, up until the pandemic.
01:20:17:11 - 01:20:40:25
John Simmerman
And then the pandemic put it to a screeching halt. I ended up repurposing much of that footage. I was following ten different cities around the North America, around the US that were striving to make big jumps in changes in their bicycle network. And it was part of the people for Bikes big jump project. And so, it was an interesting thing.
01:20:40:25 - 01:21:04:21
John Simmerman
You just never know what's going to happen. What I love about this video or this, this documentary is the fact that it took those three years. And then here we are in a situation where it's very we kind of referenced it earlier. It's very 1970s esque in terms of, you know, the gas prices are going up. We've got this Iran conflict that's happening.
01:21:04:24 - 01:21:09:01
John Simmerman
I mean, you couldn't have planned this. Now I and, you.
01:21:09:01 - 01:21:29:29
Ben Wolf
Know, and so, and the Mamdani phenomenon is sort of just just perfect. And he is the last you see in the movie, and I'm, you know, it's early days, but but I have this feeling, and a lot of us here do that. We're about to enter another one of those moments where we're going to see real change, long overdue.
01:21:30:01 - 01:21:32:20
Ben Wolf
And so it's an exciting time in in this city.
01:21:32:22 - 01:21:42:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, seriously, again, thank you so very much. And again, Mahalo. New hello. A thank you for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
01:21:42:27 - 01:21:44:18
Ben Wolf
Well, thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.
01:21:44:21 - 01:22:01:03
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Ben Wolfe, director of Changing Lanes. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel again, just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notification bell.
01:22:01:07 - 01:22:29:02
John Simmerman
And again, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Hey, super easy to do. Again, just click on the join button right here on YouTube. You can also leave a YouTube super thanks! Or you can navigate over to Active Towns. Georgie. Click on that support tab at the top of the page and there's several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter again, patrons do get early and have free access to all of this video content, but you can also make a donation to my nonprofit.
01:22:29:08 - 01:22:51:18
John Simmerman
Or you can buy me a coffee. Again, huge thank you and shout out to all my Active Towns ambassadors supporting this channel financially. I simply could not do this without your support. Again, Mahalo Neue Law, thank you very much and again, thank you for tuning in today. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness.
01:22:51:25 - 01:22:53:10
John Simmerman
Cheers and aloha.