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Geek out, do good. Join us every week as we explore the potential benefits of comics, games, TV shows, and movies through the practice of Geek Therapy. Hosted by Lara Taylor, Link Keller, and Josué Cardona.
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona, and I am joined today by Link Keller.
Link:Hello.
Josué:And Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Josué:Alright. So this the the spark of this idea came from Link. You're reading a book called Station 11. And I was I saw most of the show. I know it came out during the pandemic.
Josué:And it felt very relevant to to the the pandemic. And I'm glad you wrote it up because I got to revisit it. I liked what I had watched. I I just had not finished it. Still haven't finished the the show.
Josué:But I know we've talked briefly before we recorded about how it's a story about about grief. And I'm curious how you how you set it up and what you thought and what you felt as you were reading it. And maybe even now, different from, like, a couple years ago when when it came out. I know that when it came out, I was interested in it because the way it was perhaps marketed, or the way that people talked about it was post apocalyptic. But what if instead of focusing on all of the the zombies, or the survival aspect, like, you focus on the the arts and how people relied on on other more than just food, and water and shelter to survive.
Josué:There are other things as well. And so I was like, oh, follow these artists as they are, you know, navigating this dystopian landscape. And I was like, that was a setup. I didn't know really anything else. I was okay.
Josué:I'm I'm sold. I'll start I'll start watching it. Is that is that kind of accurate about what the what the the story is? How wrong is that?
Link:No. That I mean, that's that's pretty accurate. The the HBO Max show came out in, I wanna say, late twenty twenty or early twenty twenty one. I saw it early in 2021. And I watched it, and I enjoyed it as a post pandemic kind of story to sort of engage with the horror of early pandemic experience was captured in an interesting way in that first episode.
Link:And then Yeah. The it does this very interesting, like, twenty year time skip where we are seeing much much further post pandemic. And fairly soon after seeing the show for the first time, I went to a secondhand bookstore and saw that there was a copy of Station 11 by Emily St. John Mandel, available, and I picked it up. And then several years later, I finally read it.
Link:And so I just I finished reading it, like, last week. I really enjoyed it, and it made me want to rewatch the show to see how they had changed, you know, because an adaptation into a film medium is very different from a novel. And so it was really interesting to see the changes that they made. And I do think that this may go on my very short list of examples of adaptations, think, did a really good job of of adapting their story. I think the changes they made were really powerful within within this the series show that they had.
Link:But, yeah, it's definitely I have changed reading it and and watching it now several years out from 2020. The vibe is sort of different. But I do I do think ultimately, the stories are about grief and the grief of a single person dying, a person who's really important in your life, and how that ripples out into all of the other people whose lives that that that important person touched. And then mirroring that story into the death of specifically, I guess, technically Canadian society, but American North America. North American society.
Link:That's that's that's the geographic land. But anyways, comparing that that individual loss grief to the mass scale of, like, societal grief, I think they did a really good job of of reflecting those two into each other and really expressing a very human experience of of what it what it is like to have somebody really important to you die and and how that changes the way that you engage with the whole world.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Just based on that, it reminds me how my mom died last year. And I have two sisters. And we were both around.
Josué:We, we kind of all interacted with my mom as much as possible towards the end, but we all had very different relationships with her. And one year out, it's very interesting to see how different still our our behaviors are around my mom. Yeah. And and I'm thinking about that more and more. I just saw my older sister.
Josué:And it's funny, my my both of my like, there's little things like how both of my sisters, they have my mom's picture as their backdrop on their phone. So like, they they see her every single day. I don't have anything like that. But it's it's it's interesting. And I don't I don't they they say that it makes them happy, but it, like, it almost seems like it makes them sad.
Josué:Again, we have very different I can't I'm not even gonna try to interpret how they feel or why they do it. And they probably both do it for completely different reasons, but I don't. I have a one piece background on my
Lara:my front.
Josué:Recently changed it to something like that.
Link:Yeah. I think I think that thematically matches station eleven a lot because a lot a lot of the the main theme is sort of engaging with the different ways that people hold on to their past. The idea of, like, keeping pieces of of the old world alive. Our care our character Clark runs the Museum of Civilization, where he has literally built a space in order to keep the technology from before alive. In in the book, it's a little bit broader where it is not just technology that they're saving, but also like the the where the red bottom Louboutins Red bottom Louboutins, stilettos, and stuff like that where it's just like
Lara:Like artifacts. Like artifacts
Link:of of, like, beautiful things. Not not necessarily that an iPad is beautiful, but that it represented something beautiful of being able to, you know, draw or listen to music anywhere or FaceTime your grandma across the world and stuff like that that these are these are artifacts of a lost world that is worth preserving because well, why? Why are they worth preserving? And so that is sort of the main idea that is argued back and forth is that the keeping these artifacts of your past is very much a human thing to do. But surviving and living does require sacrificing that stuff sometimes.
Link:And how these characters deal with that aspect of holding on versus letting go and being present. The line, there is no before comes up a lot.
Josué:And
Link:I like how the show god. I feel like I'm doing an awful job talking about this. Fuck. I think a really important part of of Station 11 is that this is a story about Station 11 is a comic book that that is within a world. That there is this story that is a layer within the story that is a layer within the story.
Link:Oh, man. I am doing a bad job at this. Fuck. The that the comic book is there and that through the story, we, the the readers, or we, the the audience viewers, don't get to sit down and read the comic book, and so we only get pieces of it as it is revealed to us over time.
Lara:Which I wish that we had the comic book to read the comic That
Link:I'm that is Beautiful. That is one of the things I really like is that in in the novel, you only get like very small descriptions of this graphic novel. But they made, you know, they made the prop. They made the art for it. So I think that adds so much to it.
Link:But this idea of we hear this line, there there is no before repeated by younger characters that were under 10 years old when when the world ended, basically. And so they have some memory of before, but it is all contextualized by being children Mhmm. And seeing how the adults around them all reacted to this major loss. And so this there is no before, and then as these episodes go on, we get more pieces of that comic book is is relayed to us as audience members. And we we get to the final, couple of episodes, and we finally get the full scene exchange of these comic, the comic book characters sort of arguing back and forth about holding on to the past because the past represents something safe and unchanging versus having to exist in the present moment, recognizing that the past and the future are equally unreal to what is living in this moment right now and having to exist in this moment.
Link:And just getting to see the way that the different characters grapple with that idea. I'm so sorry. I really
Josué:I'm laughing at the all the facial expressions you made after you your your voice went silent. Yeah. I can interpret them as the story did that really, really well and and in an impactful way. And also, there's a lot to to that you could go over. Did you how do you feel about any of that, Lara?
Josué:Like, you've seen some of the show?
Lara:I mean, I think I haven't gotten to I just got to clerk at Station 11. So we have, or at the at the Museum of Civilization, right. I haven't gotten to a lot of those other pieces. But I do think it's an important thing. And I can definitely relate to this, when I still have so many things from my mom who died a long time ago at this point.
Lara:And I mean, we've talked in the past, there was a fire at my place. One of the things I had to grab was my mom's photo, right? Like, because I had things that could not be that weren't photos on a phone that were sent to the cloud, I had a lot of things that were physical that could not be replaced. And I think I am a collector of things. Nina is also a collector of things.
Lara:And anyone that's walked into our house, there's so much crap. And I think some of that is that trying to hold on to the past, to remember what happened before, to remember the person that was there, and to keep some kind of them present in the present. And I do think that there is value to remembering things. Love museums in general. I think that's a grander scale of my, like, shrine or museum to my mom, right?
Lara:Yeah, I think grief is complicated. And people react to it different ways. And it has been interesting watching how the different characters respond to that grief. And the same thing happens in my family. When we just got together for Thanksgiving, and we all have different reactions to people bringing up our mom, or not bringing up our mom, or changing a thing or doing something different.
Lara:Yeah.
Josué:You said you said something. You said I'm I'm paraphrasing you and perhaps like, me know if I if I understood this correctly. But you said something that made it sound like like you're trying to make sure that things are remembered.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Like like, it is a, like, a very active, intentional activity. Right? Like, keeping things and and and doing that versus like, do you find do you find that you need to do that? Why do you why why do you do that?
Lara:Why do I do that for for myself? I want to make sure that I don't forget, right? I the people that I have lost, I want to make sure that I keep a connection to the people who are so important to me, because that's all I have left. Even if the things are gone, the things helped me remember, and helped me have that. But these people impacted my life.
Lara:And I want to remember where I came from, and what led me to be the person I am today. I think that is one of the biggest things. And as far as my family, like I'm the one usually that holds on to the memory of mom and brings her up and things like that. I think it does bother me sometimes when it doesn't seem like other people remember or want to hold on to those things. Because I feel like it I feel like she especially my mom because there are other like people I've lost but I feel like she still belongs here and that she should be more important than that to other people.
Lara:Like
Link:a level of betrayal in not acknowledging that aspect?
Lara:Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:Is there anyone in your family, you don't have to call them out specifically, but is there anybody in your family who who you feel is more on the like, that they don't want to, like that they actively try to not bring her up for some reason.
Lara:No other than people maybe who have joined the family since her passing. But I understand that piece. It's hard for them. Because they didn't know her as well. Or like, they're trying to establish their place in the family.
Josué:There was no before. That's kind of a thing in the Yeah, in the story. Like, it's hard. It's a you see the kids in the in the story. They'll ask questions.
Josué:Like, they're curious, but they have no nostalgia. They have no no memory of these things that supposedly existed before.
Link:Yeah. Mhmm. I just
Josué:saw that scene where, like, Chris Kirsten's like, internet was fine. I guess it was kind of bad. I don't know. I liked Instagram. Like that's cool.
Josué:She was just a kid. And that's what she remembers.
Lara:It reminds me of how different generations will talk about, like, I think about before the internet was created, like, it's the same kind of thing. Like here, there is no internet, and there wasn't internet, but like, oh, you don't know what it was like before you could take a photo in your hand these days. And like, you could have a camera all the time and take videos and whatever, like, I literally just talked about that with like, I had to have physical pictures of my mom, or like, I don't have a video recording of my mom's voice, really, because we didn't have like, my family didn't have a camcorder. They were more rare, but like, now you can have that. So it's like, there is no before.
Lara:But for some people, there is before, right?
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:But for the ones that didn't know before, there is no before.
Josué:Do I know your your sit in your situation your age? Well, I'm actually similar to me, my sister, my older sister and I, there's over ten years between us. Our relationship the
Lara:same person.
Josué:Yeah. Because our relationship with with my mom is very, very different. They almost like it's almost like they knew a completely different person. Yep. Then then then I did.
Josué:So it's always interesting to hear us talk about this person who is supposedly the same person. Yeah. You see different sides of them.
Link:Yeah. That that comes up that comes up in the in the book and the show sort of through the focal point of Arthur Leander, just the the way that the different characters relate to him and how he he is important within their lives, but in very different ways.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah.
Link:Yeah.
Josué:I I I think that's one of the cool things about the I mean, you talked about how it's like a central theme of the show, but I didn't expect that when it started. That all of these people, we would like and you don't even know that they are who they are as as a
Link:show progresses. Yeah. It was it was less obvious to me in the, you know, the first time watching the show that that that is very much what it was focusing on. It it is more apparent in the book that that is what's going on, in part because one of the major differences between the book and the show is that in the show, Kirsten and Jeevan spend those first the first year together after the apocalypse. And in in the book, Jeevan drops her off at home, and and he doesn't see her again.
Link:They do not reconnect. And
Josué:Woah. Woah. Woah.
Link:Yeah. It is it is is he he goes home. He he does the same thing where he goes to the store and he picks up all the stuff and he goes to his brother Frank's house and they hole up in Frank's apartment.
Josué:But Kirsten goes home
Link:and But Kirsten goes home. Oh. And one of the major things is that Kirsten has a slightly older brother and that is who she survives with. And we don't we don't get to see any of that We hear from Kirsten later through an interview that she and her brother left Chicago at some point and that she does not remember the first year and that a couple of years in her brother died. And so it that that is an ongoing thing where she talks about that there is a a sort of an age range of survivors where if you could remember before, it was worse because you could you could remember what was lost and that in some ways that when people would be like, well, don't you wanna know what happened to you that first year?
Link:And she'd be like, no. No. No. And so there's a lot of, like, talk about, you know, trauma, especially around children. And that sort of reflects to that same thing of the holding on to the past of all of these traumatized adults trying to hold on to pieces of what they remember from their life before while there are living human children around them who were like, we need you to be present right now because Mhmm.
Link:This is what we're growing up in. And so that that balancing act I do think it is way more impactful that Kirsten has that whole story with Jeevan and Frank and their separation and then reconnection is is like, really cool in the in the movie or in the show. But, it does make it more more obvious that these different characters are you we are introduced to these characters because of their relationship to Arthur Leander, not not because Jeevan and Kirsten have some important friendship. It's literally Arthur Leander was important to Kirsten because they were in the play together and she looked up to him as an act an actor stage performer, and that he was an adult who was kind to her. Jeevan Arthur Leander is important to Jeevan because that was the, the moment where Jeevan understood that he that being a helper was who he was.
Link:The context of that being he was like a paparazzi beforehand, and then when Arthur Leander has a heart attack on stage while performing King Lear, Jeevan is the only one who stands up and gets up onto the stage. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't actually know CPR at that point, but he is the one who gets up on stage and does something even though ultimately not no outcome except that he was somebody who stood up to help. But that that way in which Arthur urged him. Yeah.
Link:Arthur Leander becomes a huge major important figure within his life story because of that moment. And so it in that way, keeping, Kiki and her Kirsten and Jeevan separated in in the book is, made it more obvious to me that like, oh, this is this is showing how Arthur Leander's death affected all of these different people and this is how it was earth shattering. And then also like, winky face, smile, thumbs ups, like, also the world ended. So it's not just metaphor for a single person's death ends the world, but, like, also literally. It can be two things.
Lara:Right. Because in the show, it could be perceived as Jeevan is just part of Kirsten's story. Right?
Link:Mhmm.
Lara:Yes. Yeah.
Link:The Yes. In in the show, that is what is happening. It's very much more focused around Kirsten's experiences. They they make Kirsten very much the main character instead of, like, a main character. Yeah.
Link:But yeah.
Josué:I mean, just in a cool thing about the adaptation. There's a part in the show where she says I had a brother who was older than me, but he died before I was born. And I wonder what it would have been like, had I had my parents been home baby like, I could have been home babysitting him or something like Like like, what
Link:would That be total was wink wink reference to the book. Mhmm. There was another one later on.
Josué:Also, isn't Station 11 about like repeating like, the Station 11 comic within the novel, isn't it about, like, repeating like, isn't it, like, alternate realities as well?
Link:So here's here's that aspect. That is that is Kirsten's reading of it. Yeah. We don't Mhmm. We don't ever like, again, we don't ever get to actually sit down and read the comic.
Link:So we're only ever getting the pages that it shows us and then the parts that Kirsten relays out loud to other characters and then the parts that the prophet relays out loud to other characters, which is based on just memory from when he was a kid because he burned his copy. So it's very interesting on that level, the idea of the way that stories are so important to us and the way that we repeat them. And and the difference in having a story written down versus an an
Lara:oral story.
Link:Oral history. There we go. Yeah. Oral story. And just the the way that it's still it's so important to people that we have these these stories are when we have nothing else, we carry these stories.
Link:And that is shown in the way that Kirsten and and Tyler as, you know, eight to 10 year olds when when the world ended versus the way that the older people in the symphony are holding on to making music and performing Shakespeare. And and the people in the museum are running a museum. It's the same thing of, like, holding on to these stories because that maybe is the only thing that we can really hold on to with any sort of permanence.
Josué:And yet
Link:and yet.
Josué:Right? Like, they change after at every
Lara:They do.
Josué:Kind of at at every retelling or over time, they change.
Link:Like And the part of part of the story that was important to you is not necessarily the part of the story that is important to the children you are telling the story to. Yeah. And the parts that they remember and that they pass on. And and that I think that adds into the into the grief of like, this idea of like, this thing is so important to me that I I have to hold on to this, even though I have to also acknowledge that it will be changed.
Josué:Yeah. When I was at Thanksgiving weekend now, I went to visit my older sister and my I was telling my nephew something. And I told him a story about my my grandmother, my mom's mom. And it was basically just a story about how racist she was. And, you know, those are the stories I tell about that woman because I don't think she was a good person.
Josué:But it's up to me. Those are those are the stories that you'll hear. I do remember a version of her that was sweet and like made sweets for us and things like that. But overall, just like a bitter and angry person. And, you know, reminds me of like when when somebody dies and, you know, you have all these great stories at the funeral, but, you know, families in the back gossiping, like, what?
Josué:That's not that's not what that person was. And then but, like, that doesn't necessarily mean that was that person to you. Until we can tell different different versions of of the story. There's a few things that I'm thinking of, but what was your favorite thing from from the book or the in the in the show? Curious.
Link:I I liked in the book that it was it it did keep more distance in not having the whole Kirsten and Jeven spending time together and getting to see that happen even though we didn't get to experience it chronologically in the show. It did it did give a little bit more distance from the characters in the novel, but I think in a way that really was meaningful to me and that you got to see more how this this wasn't just about, like, Kirsten being a particularly special protagonist to that. Her story is the one that we care the most about and we pay the most attention to. And instead, it is about how this is everybody. Everybody is always dealing with this, that this is a a human experience.
Link:Losing somebody and only having the stories left behind. I I do think the difference in I I book book Kirsten is much less bloodthirsty murderer than Shoe Kirsten, which I get because the actress the drama in the show. What's her name? Something something Mackenzie. Mackenzie sound anyways, great actress.
Link:Very, very cool.
Josué:Good with knives.
Link:Very good with knives. That is the thing is that the in the book, Kirsten is good with knives, but the whole the whole tattoo of people you've killed thing in in the show, she's got, I don't know, like, seven or eight. In the in the book, she has two and it ends with her getting one more and that's like a big deal. Mhmm. So I kind of prefer that aspect just from my own preference of preferring that, you know, post apocalypse stories aren't all The Walking Dead murder sprees and that there is some acknowledgment of, like, based on history and actual real life, like, people tend to help each other.
Link:That is that is what we we're social creatures and our our gen general move is towards helping each other and pro social and not doing full murder spree shit. So I I I think that that is maybe my biggest complaint about the the show adaptation is that is that they
Lara:Much more murders.
Link:They they they made it a little bit more murder y.
Josué:They were making The Last of Us at the same time and releasing that at
Link:the same time. Really was kind of, yeah, contextualized by I mean, the book came out in 2014. So I do think that that that is also the context. Context is contexting. Yeah.
Link:One of my favorite parts in the show is and this might be in, like, the last two episodes, so you maybe you guys haven't seen it. But there is a part where one of the characters says to another, we need new words. And she is referring to talking about who you met after the world ended because so many people, like ninety nine point nine percent of people died, is very much you weren't getting to meet up with your family. You were meeting strangers, but they were important because of the event that was occurring and that they didn't have language for it. I'm trying to remember.
Link:There's some other movie or show or something that talks about the same sort of idea of that there's there's a word for, you're an orphan when your parents die, you're, a widow or a widower when your spouse dies, but there's not really a word for when your child dies. There's not that relational word and it's sort of the same idea that's being expressed here is there's not We didn't have existing relational words to describe the experience of everybody I knew died and I met this one person walking the highway to a major city in hope that we would find somebody else alive. And and it's like, what how do you what is the word to describe that relationship? Because Trauma now bond. So I mean, is trauma bonding with it.
Link:I wanna it's not as fun as like friend. No, absolutely not. Lover. Yeah. It's it's it's just I I really liked that idea because that that idea of not having the language to describe an experience that you are either currently going through or have just experienced, I think that definitely resonated, especially early on in the pandemic in 2020 and 2021 of just not really having the language to describe how we were all feeling and and coping and dealing with it.
Link:And so, of course, as as is our classic move, turning to stories to try and get an angle on it. Yeah. And yeah. And, obviously, Shakespeare Shakespeare's got staying power as far as stories go, but there's also the the the idea of like, oh, well, you know, a lot of Shakespeare's work got really famous after a a plague. Maybe it'll come back.
Link:And then there being conflict within the traveling symphony of like, yeah, but when their plague hit, they weren't losing, you know, the Internet and TV shows and bus stations like we were. And it's like, yeah, but it was still lost. It was still world. Grief of a lost world and still trying to carry on to keep telling stories to your children because that's all you have left to give. Yeah.
Link:But, yeah, I like I think I think about that. We need we need new words.
Josué:I like that.
Link:I like that line a lot.
Josué:I fucking love that. Yeah. Your presentation a couple years ago about how words matter. And it was like stuff like that. And every now and then you come across a word where you're like, there's some word for the absence of this.
Lara:That's why I love the jackbox game where you make words.
Link:That's a good one. Dictionarium. I just saw a TikTok the other day. Deeply wish that I had saved it so that I could give this person credit, but they were talking about what's the phrase they used? Epi epimystological injustice, and it's that idea of not having a word for an experience.
Link:Mhmm. And they were contextualizing it in that gossip is a important thing, behavior that we do in order to deal with that when you, you know, you're at work and your coworker Steve does something and it gives you a weird feeling and you don't have the words to describe it further than weird feeling, And so you and your co your other coworker friends will get together and be like, hey, so this thing happened and I felt weird about it and that gossiping is the way that we are trying to cope with that lack of language to describe our feelings. And so I think that feeds back into here of the the not having words to describe the loss of society. And so how do how do people come up with those words is it's each other. It's communicating with each other and doing the best that they can to explain what they're feeling and and what it's like for them.
Link:And so often, we we do use the, you know, the media, the stories we liked for the the hit pop songs, that speak to some some deep experience that's, in your heart that you don't have the words for, but somebody found words that aren't maybe close enough, maybe close enough to give to somebody else.
Josué:I mean, that's a core part of the the geek therapy that we teach. Right? Like, I'm I'm doing a course in a couple days, and, like, that's a big part of the the the theory. The foundation of it is, like, sometimes you don't have the words. Like, it's too, like, the feeling is too complicated, and it's like, but I know it when I see it.
Josué:I see I see. So you can point point at that. I know we talked about it a long time ago, but the the book Babble, it it's about this idea that sometimes maybe a word like that exists, but there it doesn't exist in another language. And that there is and the way that the book talks basically presents the idea that two words in two different languages can have such a gap in meaning between one and the other. And that gap is like an energy that can be harnessed.
Josué:Is is is is like the symbolism of that is true. Like, many times I'm like, oh, like, is definitely a word for that experience in Spanish, but have there isn't one in English. You know, I'm like, like, somebody figured it out this time, but none of this one and vice versa. And all that. Alright, so who would you recommend this story to either the book or the movie?
Josué:Like, in what kind of situation do you think this might help them process their feelings, maybe help them pick up some language that might be helpful for someone?
Link:I mean, I think I think it's it is an engaging story if if you like thinking about death and dying, memento mori, baby. If you're into that kind of thing, I think if you are into just stories, the idea of why stories are important to people, why we tell them and and keep them and repeat them and share them and do our best to try and help them outlive us. I I think it's a good book or show for you. I think if you like Shakespeare, it's fun. Mhmm.
Link:I do it is very funny. I do wish I I had a better understanding of Shakespeare because I feel like there's a lot of inside baseball stuff that's happening in both the book and the TV show that I'm like, I don't. Probably. I've only read a little bit of Shakespeare, and it was in high school. So they were not giving us the, you know, fun deep cut stuff.
Josué:Missing a lot of references.
Link:Missing a lot of references.
Josué:Actually, station eleven, the entire thing is actually just a reinterpretation of Shakespeare's
Link:is Well, it's it's very funny in the in the in in the book, it is just it talking about how Arthur gets to play King Lear, and that is very important to him. And then more broadly, that Shakespeare is important. But in in the show, they go from King Lear to Hamlet, and then Hamlet is extremely important. Like, they are doing the oh, I forget what they call it in within the show that they talk about twin stories or whatever. But the idea that two characters are experiencing the same kind of so they're doing Double Hamlet.
Link:Double Hamlet. If you like Double Hamlet, Hamlet, Station 11 is the TV show for you. But, yeah, I I like that they do that. Well, I like that that storytelling idea in in movies and and books and stuff that you have characters going on, like, parallel adventures and you get to see the reflections between them. Yeah.
Link:But, yeah, a lot a lot more focus on Hamlet, and some of that is obvious to me in that they tell you
Lara:in the show what they're doing.
Link:They're like, we're doing Hamlet. You're playing this character who gets betrayed by this character, and all of the characters are like, ah, yes. Our story. Yes. Mhmm.
Link:Mhmm. But I have less less personal familiarity with Hamlet and King Lear. So I'm only getting the very obvious, like, what it is showing me with the the TV show is, like, here is what's happening. Like, okay. I get I get that, but I'm not getting the the juicy secrets.
Josué:Okay. So probably relatable. Lara maybe for like theater kids who are going through grief.
Lara:Yeah. I will say anyone dealing with a lot of pin, like pandemic anxiety, probably not the show for you.
Josué:Good point.
Lara:Nina really liked it. Being an artist, really liked the idea of a post apocalyptic post pandemic scene, like, with artists and like, however, she did watch it a little closer to when things were rougher, when it first came out, I think. And so she was definitely having a hard time with things. The first episode, I was like, I can't believe this doctor is not wearing a she wears a mask to talk to these kids and she pulls it down while people are coughing around her and she starts coughing. I'm like, what is the point of the mask?
Lara:You're a doctor. You're like the head of this hospital. What are you doing? So it brought me back to some of those experiences, but not in a like super anxious way. But I know that when Nina watched it, she said it was a little it triggered a few things.
Lara:But she's still finished watching it and enjoyed it. But just be aware of that. If you're planning on watching it.
Josué:Yeah. It's interesting because the way they set it up, at least in the show is one in one thousand survival rate of basically a strain of the flu. It's nothing complicated like in The Walking Dead or another movie. Right? It's just just a strain of the flu that was unanticipated.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. But, like, one in one thousand survival rate. Like, it was really bad. And so yeah, society basically collapses, because one in one thousand people survived around the world.
Lara:A couple of episodes I just watched there was like, mention of zombies, and I'm like, please, no, no, no zombies, no zombies. And I liked that it was not zombie movie.
Josué:It's not it's not as a straight up, you know, it's like it could it could have, I mean, COVID could have been worse.
Lara:And and
Josué:it's just Which in
Lara:some ways makes it scarier.
Josué:Yeah. Well, that's what I'm getting. Like, it's a very realistic portrayal. It's not a fantastic. It's not like a it's still science fiction.
Josué:Since we didn't I mean, technically, we have had really, really bad worst pandemics than COVID in the past, but but it's real enough that it it would be hard to watch. So I agree. I agree with that piece. But I do I do like I would say it's also just the yeah, just the power of stories in in it, even that and it's I'm not gonna get into a religious conversation, but it's very similar to a religious conversation I had with someone recently about how some religious texts become what they are, right? Like this this comic book that we're seeing.
Josué:Mhmm. Wasn't a popular comic book as far as we can tell.
Lara:What Two copies?
Link:There were there were
Lara:five five total. Yeah.
Josué:Okay. Five copies. No one's ever even read this thing except for the characters that we that we see. And then it becomes so important to them to the point where they're quoting it. And they are, like, like you said, something called
Link:call call sign. Yeah. What's it called?
Lara:Call and response.
Link:Call and response. Thank you.
Josué:Building community. Right? I mean, like, a whole cult is formed around it. And plus you get, oh, that this one character interpreted it this way, and they interact with another one who didn't interpret it that way. And just the the power of of of a piece of media and how it can do that.
Josué:We're talking a little bit about that before as well. But how two people go on the same the same movie, the same show and get just completely different messages from it.
Lara:Yeah. I I mean, Josué, when I have done that several times, like when we talk about it was
Josué:it specifically I was thinking about was that the one that was a big one.
Lara:So yeah. You're like, I didn't get that at all. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Just different interpretations of it. It's it's, it's cool. I think I think it's a cool story. And it does touch on stuff in a way that I'd not seen before.
Josué:But yeah, but that's a good call out. Like, this is here's some content warning on why you might not want to see it. But I still think it's worth.
Lara:If you're if you're cool with if you you're if you're on the fence, you could give it a try. But you know, take a break if you're not feeling so great about it.
Josué:Yeah, that's cool ideas, though. Yeah, for sure. And now I like the idea that these are just two versions of the same story within the cycle of the station 11 story inside the station 11 story.
Link:Yep.
Josué:I'm still not sick of parallel realities and multiverses. I'm almost there. I'm almost sick of it, but I'm not there yet. Okay, that's cool. Any any closing thoughts on on the book or the show or either?
Josué:Neither?
Link:It's just it's just not like a closing thought. Just another side thought that I enjoyed that the painted on the wagon of the traveling symphony is the says the traveling symphony, and then it says survival is insufficient. And that is the subtitle on the book. And that is a concept that keeps coming up. And there is a really poignant scene in the book where one of the musicians is just like, yeah, you know, that line would hit harder if we hadn't stolen it from Star Trek.
Link:And so I just I really like that that I think I like that aspect because that it it further impresses upon this idea, but in a way that's sort of fun and silly that it's showing it's not just like Shakespeare that is like, oh, that's that is the fine art. It's like, there there is pieces in art everywhere. That that is why it is art, that it is speaking to us, that it is giving us something that is more than just the sustenance our bodies need to survive. And that, you know, we talk about this all the time in geek therapy about how important these stories are for connecting to each other and understanding who we are and having that this book is straight up, like, talking about these characters post apocalypse or like, well, hell yeah, we quoted Star Trek. I fucking love Star Trek.
Link:Do you remember Star Trek? Let's talk about Star Trek.
Lara:Yeah. That's Yeah.
Link:Yeah. It's just as important as like, hey, do you remember, you know, your mom? Do you remember who you were with when it happens? Like, all those those things, those all those pieces are important. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. Lara, any any close thoughts?
Lara:I can't wait to finish it.
Josué:There's a random one, but the girl that plays the young Kirsten. I think she's great on the show. And she plays an elf in the Santa Clauses TV show. And she's great on there too. So if you're curious to see more of her.
Josué:She's the best part of that show.
Link:That's the other thing. What? We were gonna talk about woman of the hour on a previous episode. Did you guys end up talking about that?
Josué:No. Anyways,
Link:That I watched that movie. Oh, yeah. That actor
Lara:The prophet.
Link:That actor is the prophet. And so when I restarted Station 11 Oh. I was, like, a week out of having just watched that movie with him in it, and I go, you? Man, you're really good at playing kind of a serial killer, aren't you? That's kind of your whole thing.
Link:Several the past four or five years of, Hollywood has very much convinced me that you are the archetype of scary murder man.
Josué:Interesting.
Link:Yep.
Josué:And if you want to see Mackenzie, I forgot the rest of her name, kick ass, she's in one of the Terminator movies. She's pretty badass. She's great. She
Link:is a badass. She's a very good job.
Josué:Alright. If you watched it or not, let us know what you think of, Station 11, the themes in it. And I mean, you think about any other things that we've we've talked about or or something else. Again, there is a novel and there is a show on currently Max. Yeah.
Lara:It's a Max original.
Josué:It's a Max original. No. Don't
Lara:know. Switch.
Josué:It's on.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:It's on Max. And it is yeah. It it it's it's worth it's worth, talking about. Tell us what you think in our community spaces. There's links in the show notes.
Josué:For more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good, and we'll be back next week.
Link:Bye.
Josué:Geek therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.