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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Recording:
Extraordinary.
Leader.
Innovative.
Integrity.
Honest.
Courageous.
Curious.
Thoughtful.
Brave.
Unafraid.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is a place where technology and art meet, where work and play are one and the same. When the threads of curiosity are pulled in this place, the spark of innovation ripples across industries. Those who make this place their home are giants, titans, who pursue creative passion while leaving their mark.
Recording:
Creative.
Flexible.
Brilliant.
Clever.
Confident.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They are courageous thought leaders set on changing the practice of dentistry and their corner of the world. More than the sum of their parts, we deconstruct the traits that bind these uncommon innovators.
Recording:
Humble.
Daring.
Disciplined.
Playful.
Principles.
Spontaneous.
Open.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
To discover what makes them contrary to ordinary, where we explore the extraordinary.
Hi there. I'm Dr. Kim Kutsch, host and founder at Carifree. I'm fascinated by what makes the paradigm shifters, world shakers and art makers tick. Let's embark on a journey. Extraordinary is a place where ordinary people choose to exist. Together, we will trek the peaks of possibility, illuminate the depths of resilience, and navigate the boundless landscape of innovation to discover how some of the most innovative dentists and thought leaders unlock their potential and became extraordinary.
On this season of Contrary To Ordinary, we explore the motivation, lives and character of the innovators who see limitless potential around them. The people behind some of the largest paradigm shifts in the practice of dentistry.
On today's episode, we're speaking to someone who I think is the very definition of extraordinary, Professor John Featherstone. John is a retired dean of dentistry at the University of California San Francisco. He spent 10 years in the role after joining the faculty in 1995 as a professor.
One of John's greatest contributions to dentistry has been the Caries Management by Risk Assessment or CAMBRA Protocol, which he co-created during his time at UCSF. The CAMBRA protocol looks beyond the traditional drill and fill approach to dentistry towards more preventive long-term solutions.
If all that wasn't enough, John is also an accomplished pianist, mountain climber, skier and author. He also mentored so many people throughout his career, myself included.
But let's go back to the beginning. At this point in John's story, he had just moved his wife and two young children from his native New Zealand to Manchester, UK so that he could complete his second master's degree.
Professor John Featherstone:
I had a career in pharmacy in mind. Cut a long story short, one of my old professors from New Zealand came to visit me in Manchester, England and said, "Hey, what about doing your PhD?" And they set up a scholarship fund. I went back to New Zealand and did a PhD in chemistry. And the topic was the chemistry of dental caries.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
One of the world's leading experts in dental caries, John, 50 years later.
Professor John Featherstone:
I'm not sure about that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, you get my vote. Scholarships played an important role in your life.
Professor John Featherstone:
Absolutely. Actually, I had a scholarship for my master's degree in England as well from Sandoz pharmaceutical company in Switzerland. But anyway, I ended up back in New Zealand and the scholarship was from the Medical Research Council, which is the British, New Zealand, Australia Canadian equivalent of the National Institutes of Health. And that's what funded me largely to do my PhD.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Have you implemented some scholarships yourself?
Professor John Featherstone:
Yes, I have. During the time I was the dean, I was really adamant to raise money for scholarships and I set up one that was called the Scholarship for Opportunity. And that was for people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have shown exceptional promise. And that was very successful.
And one of the reasons I set that up is that I came from a poor family with no money and wouldn't have been able to go to university if I didn't actually have two scholarships that funded me. And in the end, I ended up with three scholarships to do my bachelor's degree in the first place. And then one for masters', one for PhD.
So I was first generation at university from my family. And I had mentors that pushed me through. And then, when I set up the Scholarship for Opportunity at University of California, San Francisco School of Dentistry, I didn't realize how successful it was going to be.
We started with one per year and I had alumni donors, commercial donors, and I put a substantial amount of money into it myself. And then, we got an endowed fund set up. And we got to the point where we were offering two of these per year. And one of the things that stimulated me to do this, apart from my own background, was that, as the dean, I would call every year to offer a place in the school to those who were selected.
And I called this woman and let's call her Mary. I said, "Mary, I have good news for you that you've been accepted to UCSF." And she said, "Well, thank you Dr. Featherstone, but I won't be coming. This is my fifth call today and I have a free ride at University of blah, blah." And she was an incredibly accomplished young African-American woman.
And I thought, "Well, man, we have to be able to offer something, not a full ride. We can never do that." And it changed the nature of our student population.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Being able to provide even partial financial support can completely change the trajectory of talented young people's lives. Even though Mary didn't take up John's offer, I'm sure he was thrilled that her extraordinary talent was being recognized.
I said at the beginning of this episode that John has been a mentor to many people over the years, but who were the people that encouraged him to be better?
Professor John Featherstone:
So I had a teacher in grade school who really pushed me. It was a very small country school. We had two grades together in each class. And he pushed me to do better and do better. And then, when I went to high school, I had a chemistry teacher by the name of Mr. Lipton as in Lipton tea.
And Mr. Lipton said to me one day, "Featherstone, you should go to university." I said to Mr. Lipton, "I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what a university is," because none of my colleagues and friends and people where I lived went to university. Although some did out of that school and they were very successful. It was a very good high school.
And he explained what a university was and I said, "Well, there's no way I could go there because I'd have to live in an apartment or whatever and I'd have to pay tuition fees." And he said, "Well, we'll see what we can do." So, he helped me apply for a scholarship, which I got. And I also, in the New Zealand system, we had national scholarships funded by the government. And I got two of those.
So, with the commercially funded scholarship and those two, I got a free ride at university. So Mr. Lipton was a key mentor in my life. And then, one of my teachers during my bachelor's degree in chemistry and math was this man, James Duncan who-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay, right.
Professor John Featherstone:
... sort of took me under his wing. When I graduated, another one of my mentors who was professor of Applied Chemistry, which I did as a sub major, we had exit interviews at the bachelor's level for selected people. I was top on the class in Applied Chemistry and he took me aside and he said ... This is Alex Wilson is his name.
He took me aside and said, "You and I have become friends during this time and I just think it's crazy that you're leaving academia." And I said, "Nope, I'm leaving. I'm out of here. I've got this industrial position and I'll never be back." And he said to me, "Featherstone, you are going to be a department chair and you're going to be a dean one day." And I laughed out loud and told him, "Professor Wilson, you are full of beep."
So those people made a tremendous influence on my life.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, mentors play such an important role, I think, in young people's life. When you think, John, about those, so you mentioned three or four mentors that had a profound impact on your life. If you just stop and thought for a minute about them, what are the first kind of couple of traits that come to mind for you?
Professor John Featherstone:
They were interested in fostering people with talent and interested in them as people and interested in making what could be an average life into an exceptional life.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Professor John Featherstone:
And it was a human interest thing. Every one of those mentors took me aside and made the comments that they made to point me in a direction that I didn't even know existed.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. So that you could have a better opportunity, a better life, and in the end, make a better contribution.
Professor John Featherstone:
Absolutely. At one point in my teenage life, I was going to be a jet pilot. And I went for a period of weeks into the New Zealand Air Force as a trainee jet pilot. And I had very high ratings and could have been a fighter pilot. But the interesting thing was I had an unfortunate discussion with the sergeant major or whatever they called him there, and that was the end of my military career, so.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So, you're a bit of a rebel?
Professor John Featherstone:
I would say, probably yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Somehow, it doesn't surprise me to hear that John could have been a fighter pilot. I really feel like he could do anything he put his mind to. If you listened to our two-parter with Professor Philip DeMars, then you might remember that he faced ridicule for some of his more radical theories.
Well, John witnessed this firsthand. He was actually present at the IDR meeting in London where Phil was shouted down from the podium while presenting. He congratulated Phil as he left the podium and they have been friends ever since. And while Phil's work today is accepted as standard and not controversial in the slightest degree, it's clear that the politics and the egos in the world of dental caries research really haven't changed that much.
If you haven't had a chance to listen to Phil's two-parter, you can find them linked in this episode's description. But back to John, at this point in his story, he was back in New Zealand with a young family to support.
Professor John Featherstone:
When I went back to New Zealand and embarked on my PhD. Although, I had a scholarship, it didn't fund everything. I had a wife and two kids and I needed some money. So, I worked as a teaching assistant in a chemistry lab. And I found that kind of fun teaching people what to do. And then my first job was as a lecturer in the school of Pharmacy near Wellington, New Zealand.
And I was hired to teach medicinal chemistry, which I didn't know a lot about. But anyway, I got the job and I spent probably every week, almost the entire week, preparing my lecture for the following couple of weeks. And the feedback I had from the students was great. And I was teaching in the pharmacy labs and I just loved the teaching aspect of it.
And even the time I was dean, I continued to do all the teaching I had done previously.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Now, John, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when you were dean, you were the only non-dentist dean of a dental school in the US?
Professor John Featherstone:
At that point, that is true. During the time I was dean, there were two other people who became deans for a short period of time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But that's pretty remarkable.
Professor John Featherstone:
I don't know whether it's remarkable or whether it's the affection of the culture of the University of California or what, but it's very unusual. And I didn't actually apply to be the dean. I wasn't planning on being the dean. And I reluctantly accepted the position of interim dean when my predecessor moved on.
And I guess I must've been successful because the search process went into place. It was an international search. And there was a shortlist of candidates and the chancellor of the university, Michael Bishop, who's a Nobel Prize winner, called me up on a Saturday morning and he said, "John, I'd like you to come and have lunch with me today." And I said, oh to myself, "Oh hell, what have I done now? Yikes."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Professor John Featherstone:
And he sat me down and he said, "I want you as the dean." And we had some discussions. I talked to my significant other, Yasme, at length, and we made the decision that maybe I could do it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
John, you brought up CAMBRA. I want to go there for just a minute and talk about that a little bit. I don't know if you remember this, but you've been a great mentor to me. And in fact, when I think of my life experience in dental caries, I wouldn't be there but for you. I remember calling you, I'd just come home from Australia. I spent time with E&O.
And I finally got my brain around the fact that dental caries is a disease. And do you remember me calling you? And I called you and I said, "John, I understand this. It's a disease. Now how do I diagnose it and how do I treat it?" And I was just expecting you to give me this easy, straightforward answer. And you said, "Well, Kim, we don't know. We know that we should be doing it, but nobody's actually done it."
I was looking for an answer, right, but I think actually that put me on the path of like, well, then, I want to be part of finding out. And so you actually invited me as the only clinician to join that CAMBRA coalition, that first group of people. And they were all academics and researchers to begin looking at how do we manage this, diagnose it, and manage it as a disease.
Professor John Featherstone:
Right? Yeah. We brought together a group of people from academia primarily on the West Coast of the US and most of them were actually practicing clinicians as well as academics. But they weren't private practitioners. And I wanted somebody who was a private practitioner to say, "Hey, you guys are up in the sky. Let's get realistic here."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Bring this down to my level. I need to make this work in my practice.
Professor John Featherstone:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And that's why I was there. You also played a role for me, John, you may not be aware of it, a paper I published, I think, it was in 2013. And I got the most scathing peer review back. The review was almost personal. It was an attack. And I was so discouraged because I really thought it was an important work, and I sent it to you and I sent you the review, which you're not supposed to do.
I just wanted a second opinion because I think I was way too close to it. And I'll never forget you said, "Kim, stick with it. Answer the questions. Give them back all the science because it exists." And you've shared with me that the paper that you had received the worst review on, peer review, and the hardest time with ended up being the paper that was most referenced of all the papers that you had published.
And I want to share with you today, that paper is the most referenced paper. I stuck it out like you advised me to do. And that became the most referenced paper that I've ever published. And I want to thank you.
Professor John Featherstone:
You're welcome. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think I'd have probably given up, but for you just encouraging me to stick with it and battle through the process. And so, I really appreciate that, John. I just wanted you to know that.
Professor John Featherstone:
Yeah, I'm glad that worked out. I mean, I was speaking from bitter experience and I wanted to pass that on to you so that you can have a bitter experience.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, I think, just having somebody say, "It's going to be okay, just stick it out. You're doing the right thing." I just needed that word of encouragement from my mentor. I'm sure if you hadn't have encouraged me, I'd have probably just thrown it in the trash bin and just gone on with my life because who needs that kind of bitter experience.
Professor John Featherstone:
That's part of publishing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I'll always be grateful to John for pushing me forward and for believing in me when I didn't even believe in myself. You might remember that I mentioned the CAMBRA protocol at the beginning of this episode. It's one of John's biggest contributions to dentistry. So, where did he come up with the idea?
Professor John Featherstone:
I helped to unravel some of the basic chemistry and physics for that matter of dental caries process, which didn't take very long, it took a few years. And I was at a meeting in the late '70s talking to a colleague of mine from the Netherlands. I remember this conversation and he looked at me and he said, "John, you've just published this in the mechanism of caries and blah, blah, blah, and where does it go from here?"
I said, "Well, the information will be out. We know how fluoride works now and we know how caries work and it's out there and people can just use it in their practice." And he looked at me and he laughed and he said, "It's not as simple as that", which it turned out to be not as simple at all. That was over 40 years ago.
And he said, "How long do you think it'll be before we can get this into practice?" I said, "Oh, about five years." And of course, that was total unrealistic nonsense. So since that point in time, I had had in my mind that what we needed to do was to take the science and turn it into practice.
And because of my time in the pharmaceutical industry, I'd seen exactly that what went on in the lab turning into practice. And one of my jobs for a number of years was as a technical manager in charge of development and laboratory in a small contract pharmaceutical company.
And we would take the science and turn it into products overnight for companies. So, I thought, "Well, it's going to be that easy," which of course it wasn't. And I embarked also in the '80s on research in lasers and dentistry before lasers were even really conceived as being suitable.
So, we published work in the '80s and into the mid-'90s, which sat dormant. And it wasn't until less than 10 years ago that Convergent Dental picked up on it and have subsequently made the most amazing laser that's out there.
So with that as a background, once I moved to UCSF in 1995, we had a really powerful team there. It was Jane Weintraub, for example, and myself and Joel White-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Joel White, yeah a few others.
Professor John Featherstone:
... and we looked at each other and said, "Well, we have to prove that what we're talking about works." So we sat down and wrote an NIH grant. And it was like the paper you're talking about. We submitted the grant and got scathing reviews. We resubmitted it and played around it and it got funded. And the title for that grant was Caries Management By Risk Assessment.
And in the last go around when it got funded, one of the reviewers said, "If this is successful, it will change the way we do dentistry."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor John Featherstone:
So a few years later, Doug Young and I were at a meeting of representatives from academia all over the country. And we looked at each other and said, "We should get together all of a representative from each university on the West Coast of the US and form a coalition and make this work," which we did.
And at the same time, I was interacting with a person in the health department in California called Reed Snow. And he came and sat down with me for an hour talking about how California did dentistry for Medicaid and whatever.
And at the end of that, he said, "John, we got to do something about this." So, we mounted with the California Dental Association, a consensus conference. So there's two groups together, put together the first formulation of what to do in practice.
And we looked at each other and said, "Well, what are we going to call it now?" And I said, "Caries Management By Risk Assessment." And they said, "Well, that's a hell of a mouthful. Let's come up with an abbreviation." Caries, CA, management, M, By B, risk, R Assessment. That's how CAMBRA was born.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
John has done some exceptional work in his career, including his creation of CAMBRA. But what's the thing that he's most proud of?
Professor John Featherstone:
One of the things I'm most proud of is nothing to do with caries at all. It's to do with the influence that I had on young, exceptional people coming into our school and being motivated to go out and be exceptional people. And that's coming back to mentorship. That was something that I talked about before.
And just last weekend, I was at the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry meeting and a couple of our previous students, in fact more than that, several of them, saw me and came up to me and greeted me like their long last uncle. And it was fabulous telling me what they're doing and the influence that they're having.
And one of these was one of my Scholarship for Opportunity winners. Just so amazing to see them doing what they're doing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so rewarding and it has to be satisfying, rewarding, and fulfilling for you.
Professor John Featherstone:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor John Featherstone:
And for me, money has never driven me. If money had driven me, I would've stayed in industry and I would've probably been a billionaire. Instead of that, I'm a relatively comfortable retiree living in a couple of nice places. Scientifically, a couple of major accomplishments, one is coming up with the science on the laser side that enabled this amazing laser to be developed and marketed.
And on the other side, I think, probably one of the accomplishments I'm most proud of is being one of a handful of people around the world who worked out how fluoride really works. And, of course, the whole CAMBRA accomplishment. And none of this would've happened without my various teams over the years, dozens of people involved in this work. And including all the patients in the various clinical trials I've been involved with all of those contributing to this, as you said, paradigm shift in the way we do dentistry.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. What has been the greatest challenge in your career?
Professor John Featherstone:
I think the greatest challenge was putting into practice what I know works and having done clinical trials and seeing it work in the clinical trial and believing that once people read the literature that they would say, "Oh, this is cool. We should do that." It doesn't work that way. It took me 40 years to work that out. That's the biggest challenge.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. So let's talk about your work and your home life. You've warned others not to get so engrossed in your dentistry or your science or both that you forget your human interactions. Where does that come from, John?
Professor John Featherstone:
It's very easy to lose sight of what really matters in this life. And some really driven people, and I won't mention any names, are multi-billionaires out there, whether they have a personal life or not, I don't know, but I somehow doubt it.
A number of years ago, during the time I was Dean, actually, speaking of mentorship, the University of California as a whole and UCSF in particular has a very good mentoring system set up now so that every senior faculty member is a mentor to younger faculty members. So, I've mentored many people in my life.
And I was asked to go and speak at a mentorship trainee's day. And I was asked to speak on work-life balance, which I think is hilarious. And I started out by saying, "I'm the wrong person to be talking to you about work-life balance because I'm in my third marriage." And everybody laughed. But it had a very strong impact and certainly-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There's a message there.
Professor John Featherstone:
... a huge message.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor John Featherstone:
And in my first marriage, it won't be derogatory in any way. We were the wrong couple. It is the best way of putting it. We thought we were the right couple, but we weren't. We had kids together. We had a wonderful life. But I also made the mistake at the same time of getting totally engrossed in my career.
I was wrapped up with the ego trip of being asked to speak here and there and whatever. And I was flying off around the world. Being an academic, I was able to spend time with my kids, which I did, and I would go to almost all of my tracks, my son's track meets, which paid off.
I would be at all my daughter's music concerts and whatever but neglected my wife. And that was really sad. As we get older, our friends pass on, our colleagues die. I'm one of the few remaining people in the world in my generation, my age of people in caries research around the world.
I've got numerous younger friends that are 10, 20, 30 years younger than me, but my age group almost all gone. And some of the faculty that I've worked with have gone. Every month, someone else has passed on. And every month I think, "Man, I wish I'd spent more time with that person."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, I think as we age, the value of those relationships, lifelong relationships, are more and more important to us.
Professor John Featherstone:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Or at least I think we're able to appreciate how precious they are. And then, particularly, as you said, you have friends, close friends and colleagues that have passed on. And then you realize you don't get second chances at that point in time.
Professor John Featherstone:
Right.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You don't get to spend more time with them, and you realize how important those relationships are.
Professor John Featherstone:
Right. Probably my best friend in the world still lives in New Zealand, and we used to climb mountains together. We've known each other for 50 years. We just worked it out and we see each other at least once every year. He ran a business, which meant that he would come to the US every year. And we would hike together, ski together every year.
And I was just back in New Zealand in February for family reasons. And I went and stayed overnight with him, and we did a little hike together. Absolutely invaluable friendship. Is there a perfect work-life balance? I think the answer is no. An appropriate work-life balance? Yes.
And it's different maybe day by day, but certainly year by year. And as I look back on my life, I think, I was inappropriate in my balance. I was too involved on chasing whatever. And I was also an avid mountaineer. And I used to go off for a week, 10 days at a time, and leave my wife with two little kids.
And when I look back on it now, there was a 50% chance that I was going to die. So, whatever possessed me to do that, however, I did spend a lot of time with my kids. And then, in my second marriage with my stepkids and that certainly paid off.
And now, like you, I've got grandkids on both sides of the country and Yasme who's my life partner now. We've got numerous grandkids between us. And we spend a lot of time with them and also with our own kids, but primarily with the grandkids. And a lot of our planning and time is spent around how we're going to spend time with the grandkids.
And I think now, for me, it's an appropriate life balance. And Yasme and I have, let's see, we're in our 17th year now, bicoastal.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor John Featherstone:
She lives in New York. I live in California. Now that I'm retired, I can spend two weeks at a time in New York. And we've just worked out how to do it and it's an amazing, spectacular relationship because of that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
After stumbling a few times in his personal life, John seems to have finally found a little bit of peace. When I asked John what advice he would give the young dentist practicing and studying today, he recited a quote from SS and philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson.
Professor John Featherstone:
"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Professor John Featherstone:
So the advice I would give to really smart up and coming scientists, clinicians, one or other, or combinations of both, is don't follow in my footsteps because you won't be able to. Well, you could. There's a pathway there. But make your own path. Make your own footsteps.
Work hard and play hard, and don't forget those who really matter to you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow. Wow, John, that's a really great observation. What's bringing you joy these days? Who inspires you the most right now?
Professor John Featherstone:
My grandkids. And people that inspire me is people like yourself who are in private practice putting into practice the stuff that I've talked about. And I'm inspired when I talk to people like yourself and others who say that, "Oh, yes, we know your work and we put it into practice."
I've got a couple of alumni who are in touch quite frequently. And they're inspirational because they have changed their practice. They're making money. They're paying their debts. And they've changed the life of their patients.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I say John, well after the CAMBRA coalition, and I struggled to implement it into practice, like everyday practice. It took years to figure out how to make that a reality. But once I did, it was life changing for me and it was life changing for my patients.
Professor John Featherstone:
Right.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I could never imagine going back and practicing drill and fill dentistry like I did before without looking at these as dental caries, periodontology, looking at them as a disease and trying to sort through, not how do I treat or restore whatever's damaged, but how do I get this patient healthy? How do I help them prevent an ongoing disease?
Really treat the cause rather than the outcomes. And so your work, John, was, I mean, life changing for me. You, as a mentor, played a huge role in my life. But actually in clinical practice and for my patients and then all the people that I've been able to touch and mentor and trying to go through that same transition in their practice, you've had a huge impact, John, I just have to share that with you. And it was life-changing for me. One of the questions that came up to me was the whole concept of extraordinary.
Is it something that people are born with? Is it innate that drive? Is it something that we learn or is it something that we choose, voluntarily choose to do? It's an extraordinary place that we make a decision to take our lives to. What are your thoughts on that?
Professor John Featherstone:
I think it's probably a mixture of your genetic makeup and the environment that you find yourself in and mentorship. So, how do I best-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So a combination of-
Professor John Featherstone:
Combination of those things. So, let me take my sister, for example, who was born of the same parents. She graduated high school early. She became what was then called an assistant secretary and she got married. She never did a job outside of the home ever since.
She lives in the same town that she's lived in now for almost 80 years. She's married to the same man. They live in a gorgeous little house. They have a nice garden. They've been retired now for quite a few years. And she doesn't want to do anything else.
As far as traveling, they used to get in their car and go on vacation for a couple of weeks by driving four hours across to the northern east side of New Zealand.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, in fairness, New Zealand is a beautiful place.
Professor John Featherstone:
It is a beautiful place. It's a small country, about half the size of California. So that's from my own family.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Professor John Featherstone:
She has no ambitions. She was dealt with a genetic makeup that meant she was below average at school, and that's it. So, whatever. I was fortunate or unfortunate, whichever way you look at it, to be dealt with a very different genetic makeup that I was top of my class all the way through. And I was driven to work and to study because you don't get top of the class just because of-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that doesn't just happen, no.
Professor John Featherstone:
... makeup. My mother was a very intelligent woman. And I had interesting possibility just a few months ago to look at her school reports from high school-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, wow.
Professor John Featherstone:
... which was absolutely amazing. I'd never seen them before, but my niece has those. And she did extremely well. But the Great Depression came and she never graduated high school, simple as that. So, her genes ended up with me in terms of that.
But I would never have done anything if it wasn't, for example, for Mr. Lipton who said, you should go to university. Now, at the same time, I lived in an environment in New Zealand, you do this, you're in the outdoors. And I lived in an environment in the outdoors and I had kids that I hung out with that we did all sorts of crazy stuff with no guardrails and whatever.
We made our own ramps and we rode our bicycles up and flew through the air and crashed on the ground like the bike parks today but we made our own. So what's the whole point of this? It's environment as well as your genetic makeup and then inspiration and being in the right or the wrong place at the right or the wrong time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
If you could go back and talk to your 25-year-old self, what advice would you give yourself?
Professor John Featherstone:
Probably a couple of things. Follow your dreams. I've followed my dreams. I've had some really weird dreams over the years and I've followed them. But the corollary to that is, and I used to say this to the students, if you come to a fork in the road, which we all do, take it. And they would look at me and say, "Dr. Featherstone, what on earth are you talking about?" And I'd say, "Think about it. Let me add to that. Take it and don't look back."
In other words, make your choice. Follow your dreams. You might have two dreams and you follow one of them. Don't turn around and come back and don't ever think about what would've happened if, because that's totally non-productive. And don't forget the people who matter to you the most.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's beautiful, John. Well, I want to thank you so much for spending this time with me being very open and sharing your life experience and your thoughts and attitudes about life and your own life experience.
In his 1841 essay, Self-Reliance, Emerson tells us to, "Trust thyself, every heart vibrates to that iron string." In other words, we should all trust in the sacredness of ourselves and our own path and not try to imitate the road others are destined to take.
It seems fitting that John would have an Emerson quote hanging on his refrigerator. Emerson was a person who wrote extensively about individuality, self-reliance, and non-conformism. John has certainly lived on his own terms, but now accepts that you need to keep those you care about close on the path to greatness.
Thank you so much to Professor John Featherstone for being so open and honest with me. I have to admit, we both teared up a few times during our conversation. It was wonderful to share this time with you. And thank you for coming on this journey with me today.
Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratch that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life.
And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.