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Eggheads is the go-to podcast for egg industry professionals who are interested in leadership and innovation in the egg world. Host Greg Schonefeld explores the evolving world of modern egg farming, from the latest in cage-free innovations and organic certifications to navigating the economics of large-scale production. Whether you're an egg producer, supplier, or involved in poultry genetics, this show provides the insights and expert discussions you need to thrive in the industry. Crack open the science, strategies, and stories behind the egg industry’s biggest challenges and opportunities.
Greg Schonefeld:
I am Greg Schonefeld, and this is Eggheads. Today we're doing something a little different. We're welcoming back Dr. Kay Russo, whose voice you probably know well at this point from the many updates she's given us on the HPAI situation. But today, Dr. Kay won't be joining us as a guest. Instead, she'll be temporarily taking over the host seat. And who's she going to be interviewing?
Dr. Kay Russo:
I think you'll do fine. I'll try to be easy on you.
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, it's definitely different. That's right. We're flipping the script and letting Dr. Kay interview me. I figured at this point we've spent so much time together, you might be wondering who I am and why in the world I decided to start a podcast about the egg industry. Today, I'll tell you a little bit about my own professional journey through the egg world, including the successes and struggles along the way. Talk about what inspired me to start this show, and what I've learned now that we're 35 episodes in. I hope you enjoy this little peek behind the curtain.
Dr. Kay Russo:
What's the beginning of your journey? Talk a little bit about how you got into this Ag space, the Ag install space, just to give the listeners some context.
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah. My history in Ag is really that my dad has had a construction company that quite a bit of its business has been in agriculture since the mid-nineties. I completely never planned on joining that or being any part of agriculture. I think I've heard a couple guests say similar things, but I went off and did accounting and finance and that kind of seemed natural to me. But I reached a few years into being in public accounting and it didn't grab me.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Accounting didn't grab you? I mean come on.
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah. Yeah, somehow it didn't. And then I just kind of reached a point where I was ready to try something. And my first thought was I was maybe 27 at this time that I'm going to start a consulting company, even though I didn't know anything, but I could go into small businesses. I guess I've always had an interest in business, and that's kind of what led me down this path in the first place. And when I did that, I thought, well, maybe I'll start with my dad's and just see if I can have an insight or something. And when I sat down, it was like in Easter, I guess in maybe 201,1 I think. And I was looking at things and I thought, you know what, I think I can make an impact here and it could be a full-time job. So I started to talk to my dad and there were some things going on in his business where the timing was right.
He was kind of at a size where he needed someone with a little more capabilities in the office, and there's other things going on with partners and those kinds of things. So I joined as business at that time and really just loved being in that seat, kind of getting exposure to strategy. So I realized that's a thing I really like and did that for a few years. And then just, I guess a mix of things going on. It made sense for me to take a little bit different path. So that was after four years with my dad went and started Ag Installers.
Dr. Kay Russo:
So maybe for the listeners that aren't aware of the differences between the two different business entities, ultimately what does one business do and what does the other business do?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, so SIGNET is the company my dad founded in. That company does construction within agriculture labor only, and its structural steel, wood framing. Ag Installers, labor only as well installs equipment inside the buildings. Specifically, really Ag Installers almost all it's done has been in the egg industry, because I think the complication of the equipment in the egg industry kind of suits me and made it interesting. And there's different angles I could take with my background on it. But yeah, what I really learned from my experience with my dad was how to use this H-2A immigration program. And that was a big thing that made me think this could be kind of a... I guess with my exposure to that, I loved that side of things as well. Really growing up from a young age, I saw the hard work, the dedication, and just people who stayed with it year after year, day after day. Honestly, there were times where I'm like, man, I don't know how some of these guys do what they do because-
Dr. Kay Russo:
Hard workers.
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, one guy in particular, I observed him traveling a bunch out of town. At one point, he got a job, we landed a project two hours from his house, and he was a guy, that family meant a lot to him too. And I saw him, I was in the office, I see all the clock ins, clock outs, I see him showing up at the job, clocking in at 6:30 in the morning, clocking out at 6:00 at night, and I'm like, man, this guy must be waking up at three something, hitting the road at four something. And that kind of thing inspired me.
Then on the immigration program, kind of seeing that at scale where we could find a lot of people of that mind and ethic and willing to travel all over the country. I had some exposure being out on projects when I was working at SIGNET, where I saw the install out there and I was like, "Man, these guys have more people than us and they're there longer. So there's a lot of labor here." So that's where I really started to see that opportunity and what led me to do the installs where I could have more ability to shape things my way, I guess.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Sure. So I want to touch back on the H-2A piece in a little bit, but before we go down that path, I was talking in the pre-interviews to some individuals that know you fairly well, and it was brought up that you moved out to Arizona in 2015 with one of your first major cage-free installs and kind of immersed yourself in that project, right? Working with the workers shoulder to shoulder. It sounded like you had quite a few individuals that you were working with. I think she had mentioned 80 people that were helping with that install. And so I want to pick your brain. I've been thrust into rural middle of nowhere United States to do hard jobs. What was going through your mind at that point? What did you learn by immersing yourself in the actual process versus managing over it? And what did you pull away from that initial experience that's guided you moving forward?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, I was totally out of my element to start that because here I am, accounting, finance. I had gone out in the field a little bit towards the end at SIGNET because I wanted to see if I can make impact there, but totally out of my element and knew, I mean with the schedule and kind of the design of things, the aim, everyone was on the same page that we needed to be up to 120 people within the first year.
And so I kind of saw no other way, I guess, and we were able to bring in a few people with experience, but I just kind of was there working closely with them, using the best of my own judgment. And there were definitely days where I didn't know what I was doing and I just was there and I walked up and down the rows to see if something would click with me. But yeah, it was very different. I mean, in Arizona we really got things rolling in May, so we were actually in a town, it was only 800 people in this town. The closest Walmart was 45 minutes away, and that was maybe a town of 3000.
We were looking at, okay, maybe putting in hotels in that town 45 minutes away. I ended up putting in housing just to have enough housing for our people, because we were more than 10% of the population when we went there. So we put in 12 mobile homes and I lived in one of them. And so I also spent time on the weekends with the guys. I think there was kind of a sense of camaraderie built from the beginning that even though we had a steep learning curve, it was just kind of clear we were in it together.
Dr. Kay Russo:
And it sounds like you even learned Spanish in your tenure there. That kind of kick started your Spanish speaking, is that right?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, so I had a little bit, and at that time I had a little bit more. At some point in there we hired some bilingual people.
In Arizona, we got to a point, and I'll say I am not the one at all that figured things out there. I think I wrongly attributed the success to some people we had brought in. But looking back now, what's clear is actually what helped us to figure things out is just in that group of 120 people that really, I only knew eight of them going into this, most were referrals. This sense of just how do I do what I'm doing better? Really, a lot of people came with that mentality and three buildings in started to have enough repetition where they figured it out.
Well, that project ran out. We got to the point where it was winding down and we had to go replace that job and to kind of equal and keep people working. It took three jobs to replace that one, and each of those, none of them were the same as what we were doing in Arizona. So I actually got to a point where I thought, "Oh, I'm smart. We're good. We're figuring this out. And oh yeah, we don't have a lot of experience, but we're already figuring it out." And I kind of got, well, a major gut punch there, where realized, okay, it's a lot different to figure it out there than to do a whole other system and to be spread between three sites. And I still wasn't the guy that knew install.
And I kind of gravitated to the things I knew at that point, because we were a good size company. So there were still all those other aspects of the business that had to get done that were kind of more in my wheelhouse, but got that gut punch, and maybe I was too distanced, but kind of got to a point where it was so bad I thought we might go out of business. I didn't know what else to do except to go to the field and see what I could do. That's when I really learned Spanish because I had realized some of the bilingual people we brought in weren't getting it done. So I was scared in that moment. I can't communicate with anyone. I don't know construction, but I just knew it wasn't working. Finally, pulled the plug, just kind of took a leap of faith and started talking with people.
Realized in the ranks there were some people that really knew what they were doing, and just at first, very slow, probably frustrating communication on their end, but had patience with me, but really learned Spanish at that point because it was me on one project that wasn't doing well, and we had 60 people all Spanish speaking only. And that's when the Spanish came out of complete necessity and survival mode, but really figured it out. And again, it's because of the people that we had there that, there were several people that just kind of brought a different aspect. And one guy in particular that really kind of got it, the whole picture. And we were able to work together closely strategize and get through it.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Yeah, it's amazing what we're capable of under pressure and stress, right?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah.
Dr. Kay Russo:
I mean, you build structures, right?
Greg Schonefeld:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Sounds like an awful Lego set in my mind. But in our talks previously and in the pre-interview talks, there was a lot of discussion around your ability to retain people. And in agriculture, you'll often hear where one of the biggest struggles that producers have, for instance, is finding the labor in order to fulfill the requirements for their operation. But in talking with you and others surrounding your business, it seems like that's not such a problem for you. And so what do you attribute this to ultimately in your mind?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, that's a good question. And yes, we have had a really great ability to retain people. I do have to say that this H-2A program is huge for that. It really helps. We're working with people who, I mean, this is kind of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and so that inherently helps a lot. And there's plenty of complications with running the program. There's a lot of regulation, red tape and documentation, all that kind of thing, but that's what we really get is hardworking, dedicated people. So that's a big part of it. And I think the thing that we've done really well on top of that is listening, having relationships. I think one thing I've kind of observed, some farms do a really good job of it. I've observed a couple where there's a disconnect. I've also observed this quite a bit in construction, where a lot of times there's the brains, and the strategists, and there's the labor
And the people who think are disconnected from the work, and the people who are doing the work don't necessarily get listened to. I, myself have made that mistake. I mean, when I was too far distance from the jobs. Before I went there, one thing I saw that crept in is narrative and politics. And I really figured it out after the fact where my crew leader that I was trusting on at that time, he had a story and it made a lot of sense. This is why things aren't working, and actually, we made a lot of mistakes with our customers during that time because, "Oh, it's our price was wrong. Someone gave us the wrong budget for this job," and those kinds of things. I bought all that. But when I actually went there, I saw, oh man, this guy was blowing me smoke. And then I could talk to the guys on the ground floor and what they were saying made sense with what I was seeing.
That I think carries a lot of weight to kind of understand what they're seeing, to be able to help people with what they're seeing. Just to listen and to appreciate, I think those go a really long way. Then on top of that, we're really trusting that person that we have there on site who's seeing things to be making the decisions. And I think that's allowed us to grow as a company. But it also, on the other end of that, those leaders really appreciate that because when you've got someone good, they care, they see opportunity. When they have the ability to act on that opportunity, and the leeway to act on that opportunity, it's motivating. So I think that's one thing that we've done well. And I think that kind of helps lead to the retention and also to the growth of people.
Dr. Kay Russo:
I mean, if I could summarize it sounds like you don't ask anybody to do something you're not willing to do yourself. And you enable people with the tools that they need to rise up and take ownership of some of these projects, which in turn allows you to step away some, but you're still present and available, and understanding what folks are going through. And also, again, not telling someone to do something that you wouldn't do yourself. So that's cool. How do the cultural differences play into some of this? Obviously, a lot of these folks are probably from Central America. How has that been a benefit or a hurdle in your experience?
Greg Schonefeld:
We have guys that have maybe a decade with us now at this point, a couple really starting to learn English. That's been kind of a challenge, is to really get up that English curve. But even on top of English, to really kind of just feel like you belong in the US that hey, you've had this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, but now that you've been doing it 10 years, you belong. You are here because you are needed. The way you've grown, you belong. And I think we need some people, I think, to see that. So that's kind of a cultural thing we're working through right now.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Well, and I think ultimately the political environment that we're currently operating in has shifted that some, right? There's been some challenges to the immigration process. It sounds like the H-2AV system's experiencing a little bit of an uphill climb in the current context of what's going on from a political standpoint. If you had a perfect system in which to operate with those individuals, what would that look like?
Greg Schonefeld:
Over the years, we've seen all kinds of different hiccups with H-2A. A big one for us a few years ago, it used to be that wages were just dependent on the state. Now they've started assigning different job codes which impacted wages. There's been different things that kind of call into the question the program or whether even people in construction should be able to use the program and those kinds of things. Right now, honestly, I think we're in a strong position when they changed those codes a few years ago to actually put us into codes. It kind of really solidified our position in the program. But there is always kind of little somethings. I mean, now it's a little bit tougher in the interview process where someone who's maybe been coming for several years may get interviewed and there may be something that they don't like.
We haven't had someone denied for this, but we've had someone questioned just for a speeding ticket. So that's a little thing. And one thing in general with immigration is that I feel like there's a lot more of a bend to want to let people in the country who are educated. I think it's H-1B. That's a huge visa used by all these tech companies. If you're going to offer permanent residency, I think there's much more of a skew towards education. Actually, we've seen that internally where we're in the process of sponsoring some people with labor backgrounds, and we were sponsoring a few engineers, and our engineers started the process at the same time, and he's approved. And we're still hearing maybe a couple more years on the other folks. And I think what our country really needs is the labor. I think there's also just a lot of maybe value in labor that a lot of people don't see.
So I grew up around it with my dad's background, but we also typically lived in bigger cities or suburbs. I mean, my day-to-day going to school, I had some exposure in the summers, but I'm honestly mostly a city kid. And so to step in, even after my experience with my dad, when I got on the ground floor of Ag Installers, it was kind of eye-opening, because I'm like, "Man, these guys can do all kinds of things that I can't do." It's not just the job to do because you can't do something else.
It's a critical job. It's a job that takes skill. It's a job that can offer growth. And I think we need to obviously do more to spread that message domestically. But I also... It would be great to see the policy support it and for the people who are willing and ready today to be able to open more gates to that. I think we're very lucky to be able to use H-2A. There's other people, seasonal factors and those kinds of things that don't meet the criteria. There's plenty of agriculture jobs that don't qualify employers to use H-2A. I'd love to see it available to more people out there or something similar.
Dr. Kay Russo:
And I think that's an interesting point because even in the context of our own country, it really mirrors sort of how we handle our youth. It's like this new message is everybody has to go to college. So there's this de-emphasis on vocational schools. And a lot of the vocations take electricians, or plumbers, or all these different vocations are good paying skilled jobs, but it's sort of this push everybody has to have higher education. And then at some point you're looking at these kids that graduate a four-year institution and they can't find a job. And so I think it's interesting how that sort of mirrors also how we're emphasizing some of these visas as well, when in fact, we need this skilled labor. And that really, at the end of the day, is where some of the money is too.
Greg Schonefeld:
Absolutely. That reminds me, when I was kind of sitting there in my accounting job, I knew the whole time I was doing it, I was working hard, but it wasn't my future. But I remember sitting there, "What am I going to do?" And at the same time, I'm like, "I don't know how to do anything." I was like, "My dad can build a house and I just know how to stare at freaking spreadsheets all day."
Dr. Kay Russo:
I can plunge a toilet. Yeah?
Greg Schonefeld:
Exactly. So that skill set, and then if you don't come into it at the ground level, how do you ever really learn it? And really, that's how my dad started too. So yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Kay Russo:
And life skills in general, there's no teaching of how to cook for yourself or anything like that. And so it's just sort of all this book learning and the real world piece is where we're falling short. And perhaps that leads to the necessity for having folks from different countries come in to help. I don't know if it's directly related, but it just got me thinking.
Greg Schonefeld:
For sure. And that's really what I think inspires me about being where I am. You talk about real world, you're talking construction and agriculture. I mean, it just doesn't get more real world than that.
Dr. Kay Russo:
So if you could go back and looking back, hindsight's 20/20, what is one thing you would do differently? Knowing what you know now, how you started, how you progressed, what's one thing you would've done differently?
Greg Schonefeld:
When I started my own business, I came in with the wrong mindset. I kind of had money as a barometer. I never was someone that, oh, I want to make a bunch of money, because I want a Lambo or I want all these things, or even the status of it. It was kind of like-
Dr. Kay Russo:
I want to buy a carton of eggs in early 2025-
Greg Schonefeld:
Exactly.
Dr. Kay Russo:
... kind of money.
Greg Schonefeld:
And it wasn't even something I ever would've cared to flash, but me personally, it's kind of like a mark of success. And when we started off early on that job making with 120 people, it was a great opportunity and I think it kind of maybe validated something in me that, "Oh, we had success from the get-go." And then in some ways, I mean, I guess at that point I was in my early thirties, and somehow in my head I wasn't as far along as I wanted to be. And now we got to speed this up and do even more. And it really took that gut punch where I thought we were going out of business and that here we are failing on the jobs. And I'm like, man, I don't have any strings to pull here because everything is tied to us performing better on our sites, and I'm not good at that. During that time when the feedback I was getting is, oh, our pricing is wrong, and those kinds of things.
And we started to really work hard on change orders considering things as extra work. Well, that really hurt relationships at that time with customers. Meanwhile, the egg market dropped. So 2019 is when we had some of those struggles, but really righted the ship and got things better, but it already kind of screwed some things up on the customer and trust end. And we regained it in 2019, but these sales happened way in advance. I mean, these jobs, everything shipped from overseas. I mean, it's eight months in advance typically. So our 2020, we were cut in half on revenue. We were cut down to 80 people, which was tough. We performed well with what we had in 2020, but we didn't make money. When you're feeling like your success is driven by that, oh, I'm smart, because we're doing well there. But then when you're losing, you have no conclusion except to feel really bad about yourself.
So you kind of have to find a different path, kind of again, maybe necessity almost. And that's when I really started to change my mindset. And so in 2020, we didn't make money, but I know we got better. Typically, what happened is we'd be on a multiple building site. We'd have terrible results in the first building, a little better in the second, and then on the third one, we would start to do. Well, in 2020 we started two jobs at the same time, and both of them did well from the first building. And we really had people grow that year, and you could see leaders emerging and started to measure on that. So that's a long way of saying be more of a missionary than a mercenary, I think is a good way to frame it. But just to go in with the right mindset towards impact and just working to make things better and put some of those other things secondary.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Having started my own business, the highs are high and the lows are so low. It's like when am we going to get the next ovary kick in my case? So I can appreciate that very much so.
Greg Schonefeld:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kay Russo:
So the last thing I want to talk about as we round things out is the podcast. You started this podcast. This was something you'd thought about for a number of years before pulling the trigger. Ultimately, you've gone through and you've interviewed a lot of people at this point. How has the podcast piece sort of influenced your story?
Greg Schonefeld:
First, kind of an idea of doing a podcast was planted in my head. Then trying to think, "Oh, what would I even talk about," was another thing. Then at a certain point it struck me, it would just be cool to talk about the egg industry in general. And one thing that hit me was I'm on a text group with some of my college buddies, and anytime something egg related would pop up, they would have a little comment or whatever. And I realized I didn't really know that much about the egg industry, even though I operate in it. And so going down this road of doing the podcast, my thought was, well, there's plenty of people who know a lot more than me who could talk about this sort of thing, but I don't need to know everything. I can just bring people on who do.
I was kind of interested in ventilation and all the different aspects that we sort of had exposure to. And I was kind of thinking going down that lines of having some people that I work closely with talk about different aspects of managing buildings. But someone I talked to early on, told me the story of cage free and how the genesis of that, it reminded me of some of the things I read in that Fortune article about how McDonald's was so pivotal in the cage-free move. Just hearing that, it kind of gave me pause that the people who produced the eggs didn't necessarily have a lot of say in how that should happen and what are kind of the pieces of that. So that's kind of interesting. This bird flu journey that we've gone on. I mean, that's another one where it's just like there's a feeling of powerlessness almost like you can be a producer and feel like you know what you need or you just know you need something, but why can't we get it?
And then I think the other thing that just sticks with me is this dynamic that if there's so many producers out there who are producing a commodity egg at the end of the day, and it puts you in a low cost position, how do you create opportunity in that environment? How do you create margin which allows you to pay top people and keep top people and also pay yourself? Those are the things that really grab me. And I just think from starting where I was in my knowledge to today, still have a long way to go, but every conversation, since I'm such in a... so low on the learning curve still, there's just something I can pick up from every conversation, and that's what I really like. That's what I really enjoy doing. Not to mention the relationships and those kinds of things. I mean, that's awesome. It makes my conferences totally different, because the people I would talk to normally in Ag Installers, but my world has expanded. So that's a lot of fun and that's the kind of stuff that really keeps me going and gets me going in Eggheads.
Dr. Kay Russo:
What's been your most popular episode? Is it the Hickman episode?
Greg Schonefeld:
It is.
Dr. Kay Russo:
So what does that tell you? Do you think producers do a good job presently advocating for themselves, or do you think that there's more opportunity for them to tell their stories and what do you think would happen if they did?
Greg Schonefeld:
Yeah, I think you nailed it. I think it is the most popular because here is a big producer from a big farm talking, really laying it all out there, and everyone wants to hear from that person. And because it's kind of so rare to get to, and even going to Jacques first, that was a really episode I loved early on. That was my first time to get to hear someone talk strategy from a high level position in an egg farm. And that struck me because what Jacques did, getting on Eggland's best, going to Puerto Rico. It showed me, "Hey, it's not just necessarily a commodity gain." There's other angles you can play.
And I think getting that kind of stuff out there is very valuable and kind of starting with the producer too, because you can start to rally other things around it. I think also if you want to attract people, the more they feel like they know you, the more they feel like you're saying things that make sense. Even putting your challenges out there. I think some people like solving problems, so putting the problems out there attracts those type of people, and we need those type of people. So I think the more these high level producers are willing to share, I just think magic will happen.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Yeah, I agree. I think it humanizes what has formerly been classified as a commodity.
Greg Schonefeld:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kay Russo:
I think some of these specialty egg companies are finding success in that because you'll open up a carton and you'll see a picture of a hen with a story, so people can relate. And so I think there's a lot of value, especially in giving them this platform to do so if they so wish.
Greg Schonefeld:
Absolutely. And that's something, I mean, we've had some specialty egg companies on, and that's part of the reason why. I find that inspiring. If you can charge more for an egg and kind of adapt farming practices and have people have a sense that they know you and want to buy from you, I think that's inspiring because it does open the door for more opportunities. And I do think, if you knew the egg on your shelf was coming from your neighbor who you feel like you like, you're probably going to buy that egg. And I think that's another, I don't know exactly how to execute on that, but that's to me conceptually a value that's out there.
Dr. Kay Russo:
If there's anything that comes out of this episode, I think ultimately, even though we work in ag and with animals in a lot of ways, it all comes down to the people.
Greg Schonefeld:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kay Russo:
So, I think we're wrapping things up and probably the last question to ask is how do you like your eggs?
Greg Schonefeld:
You're a total professional, Kay. I was wondering if you'd remember that one.
Dr. Kay Russo:
There you go.
Greg Schonefeld:
My absolute favorite is a sausage egg taco that I make at home with Jimmy Dean's sausage. And one trick is to add butter to it, but that's my absolute favorite. Used to be something always around Christmas, we'd have that at least once with the extended family. And then my year out of college, I made it almost every night. And you can ask my roommate at the time, because he made fun of me all the time. So anyway, but yeah, that's my favorite.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Now, corn or flour tortilla?
Greg Schonefeld:
I do a flour tortilla.
Dr. Kay Russo:
Hot sauce or no hot sauce?
Greg Schonefeld:
Typically, no.
Dr. Kay Russo:
All right. Well, that's important.
Greg Schonefeld:
It is important. You're asking all the right questions.
Dr. Kay Russo:
All the right questions.
Greg Schonefeld:
Special thanks to Dr. Russo for being a consummate professional. I hope you enjoyed getting to know me and my story a little more. And I got to say, being on the other side of the mic gave me a real appreciation for how hard it is. So a heartfelt thank you to all the guests who've come on. As always, make sure you follow Eggheads on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And we'd really appreciate it if you leave us a review. It would be a huge help to us as we continue to grow the show. You can connect with us on Instagram and LinkedIn too. And if you want to be a guest or have topic ideas, please send us a message. Until next time, I'm Greg Schonefeld, and we'll talk to you soon.