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Parkinson’s: An Athlete’s Journey is for athletes navigating Parkinson’s, the coaches and clinicians who train them, and anyone who wants real-world strategies for performance and longevity. Hosted by Eric Von Frohlich and Todd Vogt, the show focuses on tactical takeaways: how to train, recover, manage symptoms, and stay consistent when the rules keep changing. Expect honest conversations, tested routines, and guest experts who go deeper on what works.
Eric Von Frohlich (00:31)
So what kind of day you having, bud?
TODD VOGT (00:34)
it's all right. I actually, all right. So let's see. I have this little bit of shoulder tendonitis. I saw my physical therapist yesterday. I didn't do any damage. I was worried I hurt it like, like badly, but it's just, I just have a little bit of like rotator cuff tendonitis. But it's not too bad. He just like, don't row for a week or, and then ease back in with rowing next week. So I'll be on the bike this week, which is fine.
Eric Von Frohlich (00:41)
Uh-huh.
All right, it's nice when you get the doctor's note not to row.
TODD VOGT (00:58)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Today I was on the Ecobike and the Concept 2 bike, you know, ⁓ own butt.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:07)
I'm
heading to the gym as soon as we get out of here.
TODD VOGT (01:10)
nice.
What are you able to do right now
Eric Von Frohlich (01:12)
Well, I got signed off yesterday on my shoulder and my bicep. My doctor told me he was very proud of the work he's done and it's a complete success. And I told him I need to rearrange my expectations on what my success looks like because it's not quite in alignment with his enthusiasm. But it's good to know that I can maybe approach some more intensity in my training.
TODD VOGT (01:21)
Cool.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:37)
and get some of my strength back without fear of, doing any damage. So that's good news. So basically he said, go back to your life. So I'll pick up pickleball this week. I'll go back to jujitsu and I'll start, you know, training a little heavier with a little more intensity in the gym. it's kind of funny because.
TODD VOGT (01:42)
That's good.
High school.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:59)
cardiologist that I saw yesterday. Was basically I had a meeting to have a plan to make a plan he's the cardiologist for the if I need to have one reset my rhythm But I have to do a CT scan first.
or an angiogram to sign off on why the lower part of my heart isn't getting enough blood flow. have to see that doctor who's also a cardiologist. I have to see him before I see the guy that I saw yesterday. So I basically went to the office to make a plan that I would circle back with him after I see the other doctor, was a waste of time and incredibly frustrating, but it's just part of the process.
TODD VOGT (02:44)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (02:47)
I'm excited to get back after everything. But when people ask, how are you doing? I always feel compelled to give like an honest answer. it just always ends up coming out as like a complaint that things aren't good enough. So I think I'm going to have to my mantra and just kind of like fake it till I make it and just kind of lie a little bit So it doesn't sound like all I do is complain about what's not working.
TODD VOGT (03:08)
All right, there's a bigger question here Having Parkinson's, everybody's like, how you doing? You don't wanna be like, well, my tremor's worse, my left foot's not working today. So most of the time I'm I'm doing all right. How much do people really wanna know, especially when you have Parkinson's?
Eric Von Frohlich (03:19)
suck like shit.
Yeah
Right, well, they stop asking eventually, right?
TODD VOGT (03:32)
Yeah, so I ended up just saying like, I'm doing all right, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (03:36)
the attitude to take one wants the details. just.
TODD VOGT (03:41)
Yeah, no one wants the reality.
well, I had, I could barely sleep last night because my left, my tremor was bothering me and my shoulder hurts and, you know, my left foot's not working this morning. Like, nobody wants to hear that. You know, I don't know. That's my thought process. So.
Eric Von Frohlich (03:54)
Exactly. You
know, I feel the same way, so I'm going to take a tip from you and go with everything's doing pretty good. ⁓ You know.
TODD VOGT (04:03)
Yeah, I don't know if that's the answer too.
Yeah, that's probably the most common thing I say.
Eric Von Frohlich (04:07)
There's...
But part of it is just aging also and conflating aging with Parkinson's is you know, I run into my friends who are my age and kind of complaining about stuff, but not really. It's just kind of I seem to forget that there's a at a certain point, things just don't work as well as they used to.
TODD VOGT (04:23)
Yeah.
True.
I think I can define in my head like what symptoms are. I'm sure you probably feel the same way. Like you probably know your body really well. One thing I think is helpful for when you have a medical condition is being an athlete. Like you're really in tune with your body. Like I know the way things should feel, you know, when they're feeling good, you know, normal.
So I can generally feel like I can identify like what's Parkinson's, what are things that are just like me getting old? Okay, like when my back is sore in the morning when I wake up, for example, I think that's just getting old. Like I've been rowing since I was 19 or 18. My back is gonna be sore every morning when I get up from here on out basically, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (04:50)
Right.
That's true, but you can still row.
TODD VOGT (05:11)
Oh yeah, that's fine, that loosens up within 20 minutes. So I guess my point is like, that physical situation is just a fact of aging,
Eric Von Frohlich (05:21)
Well, couple of the past couple of days have been doctor's appointments and walking the dog and I've been trying to get to the gym, but the gym has evaded me despite my best efforts. So I need to I need to double down and get get back to the gym. I walked a lot the last two days and and did some stretching, but nothing that we would normally consider a workout.
TODD VOGT (05:26)
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's good.
Bye now.
That's you know, nothing.
Eric Von Frohlich (05:46)
I'm looking
forward to getting back after it and things being sore for the right reasons.
TODD VOGT (05:53)
Yeah, no doubt. I feel you.
Eric Von Frohlich (05:54)
we tapped into How much truth can people handle?
TODD VOGT (05:59)
Yeah, for depends on the people I'm talking to as well. don't know, acquaintances, you're just like, I'm doing Sometimes I'm even like, it's a little tough talking to family members too and loved ones, because you don't want to overburden them as well, right?
Eric Von Frohlich (06:10)
No, that's for sure. totally agree. All right, what else you got for today?
TODD VOGT (06:11)
So.
So one thing I've been doing I've been on the Concept2 bike. one thing that Concept2 does is great is They have an online logbook for like every difference any like distance Speed so you can see the rankings for like 20 years back and you can do a workout so you can you can compare yourself to anybody like if you want to just jump on to do a 500 meter piece
you can look at the rankings and see where that puts you and you're like, okay, that puts me 457th out in the world out of 600 or whatever. anyways, so they have a workout, they have a workout of the day. So I was doing the workout of the day. I was like 16th, 17th in the world on today's bike workout. I was very proud of that. Yeah. The Concept2 bike, for whatever reason I can rip it on it. that's like, if I can't row, I'm just going to smash myself on the Concept2
Eric Von Frohlich (06:43)
Right. Nice. Very cool.
TODD VOGT (07:01)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:01)
That's an impressive, that's a pretty impressive number. So what was the, what was the workout and what was the time?
TODD VOGT (07:07)
It's five minutes on, two minutes rest, four minutes on, two minutes rest, three, two, two, two, one, one. So five, four, three, two, one, two minutes rest in between.
I averaged like 146 pace, 145 pace, something like that. But I did it in the altitude room at Evolution, that gym that I go to. So the altitude room was like 10,000 feet,
Eric Von Frohlich (07:25)
Yeah,
and you still finish 16th in the world?
TODD VOGT (07:31)
Yeah, that made it a lot harder. That probably added like realistically like if I had to guess I probably added two three splits to my speed you push a little too hard into the like your anaerobic threshold and boom. So you have to back off a little bit.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:43)
That might
put you into like the top 10 in the world then. Out of people who did it.
TODD VOGT (07:47)
Yeah, I think it could have. Yeah,
I think it could have. So, yeah, the bike, I can crush that Concept2 bike. Other thing is I went to occupational therapy for the first time today, which is cool. It was good. They worked mostly just with my wrists. Like she had me doing all kinds of like strength testing and flexibility and sort of coordination tests with my left wrist. This is like, my left wrist is the most like affected part of my body.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:58)
Oh, how'd you like that?
TODD VOGT (08:11)
That's the part like, this part and like this part can barely like bend, you know? And I think that's, honestly, I think that's all. ⁓ yeah, let's see.
Eric Von Frohlich (08:12)
Is it?
But it's better than men.
TODD VOGT (08:26)
Okay.
Eric Von Frohlich (08:28)
My right hand isn't bad, but my left hand is. So I have to take a bar, like a weighted bar, and just let it tip over and hold the end of it and just open it up. Yeah, that makes a big difference.
TODD VOGT (08:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
you to like stretch it out? Yeah. Okay.
I think this is the source of my problems. Like I was having like some forearm tendonitis and like the shoulder tendonitis. This injury stretches back to like the Head of the Charles in October because like I don't have, I'm lacking like the finger dexterity in my left wrist. So I compensate by using like my whole arm, you know? That makes sense. And so...
Eric Von Frohlich (09:01)
Right.
TODD VOGT (09:03)
I use all this extra musculature that I shouldn't be using to just flick my wrist at the end of the dry phase of the stroke. So instead I'm cranking on it with my whole arm. I think that's the source of my problem. Anyways, she gave me some exercises. I'll meet back up with her. Some stretching and some
Eric Von Frohlich (09:14)
Yeah.
Yeah,
that would be great if you can get that worked out. Cool. So what else you got? You ran out of fingers. You had so many things you wanted to talk about. So occupational therapy sounds successful.
TODD VOGT (09:22)
Yeah, I think it'd be good. I think it'd be helpful.
yeah.
This is a slight tangent too. the New York Times over the weekend. There was an article, if you saw it, about peptides.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:36)
I didn't. Was it good?
TODD VOGT (09:38)
it's good. I think the biggest point to take away the article was that a lot of it's driven by
like Silicon Valley entrepreneurs who sort of take like an almost like an entrepreneurial approach to their own sort of health, you know, they're willing to experiment and try things, you know.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:51)
You know that's been my experience with them.
TODD VOGT (09:54)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:54)
I'm kind of like an experiment of one. And if it works for me, then I share it with a couple of people and you know they validate their own experiences and stuff like that. But it's a.
TODD VOGT (09:56)
Yes, this is exactly good.
Yeah, that's exactly
the way it works in Silicon They're saying they have peptide parties in Silicon Valley, like in San Jose, where people will get together and they'll each bring their own peptide, and inject yourself with it, whatever.
Eric Von Frohlich (10:13)
sorry.
Exactly. There was a really funny South Park episode on Ozempic when it came out.
TODD VOGT (10:19)
So.
Yeah, exactly,
Eric Von Frohlich (10:26)
I just put an order in for some new peptides today. MOTSC, MOTSC, putting me into the mitochondria space and trying that a little more active and a little stronger.
TODD VOGT (10:31)
Okay.
Mmm. Okay.
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (10:43)
So we'll see how I respond to that.
TODD VOGT (10:47)
they mentioned was like epitelon, epitelon, something like that? that was another one that's popular apparently amongst all Silicon Valley crowd as well.
Eric Von Frohlich (10:59)
Well, they're certainly cutting edge as far as their technology skills. So it doesn't surprise me that they embrace that with the biohacking and the ability to feel a little more rejuvenated.
TODD VOGT (11:02)
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Eric Von Frohlich (11:11)
I've been staring at my big ass calendar and trying to fill it out with some some audacious goals this year. So you're OK there, buddy?
TODD VOGT (11:21)
Yeah, I choked on some water there. Or as my wife says, like, failed as a human being when you choke on water. She's like, that's when I failed as human being.
Eric Von Frohlich (11:24)
⁓
Hahaha
I know the feeling. Yeah. So I filled it out and I've been debating whether or not I'm going to challenge myself with something that's like a Spartan race or maybe like a six K a 10 K Spartan race. So it'd be 25 obstacles, 10 K and it may get extra juicy. It's at altitude. It's a big bear mountain in California
TODD VOGT (11:49)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (11:58)
Yeah, so I'm thinking I'm going to going to at least put it on my calendar and start training for it and see how my training goes. The cardiac training is going to be a little a little tricky with with what I'm dealing with. But I think it might force me into a lot of zone two training and I could just load up on that and maybe reset my rhythms and
get my rhythmic heartbeat back under control if I do enough zone
TODD VOGT (12:24)
Is there a recovery period for an ablation? would think you're good to go immediately, you know, within a day or two again, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (12:30)
Yeah, I think so. And,
I got a little discouraged with some of the side effects or some of the consequences an ablation. So it made me look at the probability or the possibility of resetting it with breath work and steady state cardio and less stress in my life and all the things that we should be doing sleep tackle it versus medical medicine.
TODD VOGT (12:45)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (12:55)
So I'm going to give that a shot for the next three. I got three weeks before I see my cardiologist again. ⁓ So maybe I can make some progress with that and put off the ablation some steady state zone to cardio and get in shape at the same time.
TODD VOGT (13:01)
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, so was gonna you doing all that stuff, know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (13:19)
Exactly. So I I think I put spot and race on the calendar try to recruit a couple of people to do it. And maybe I'll get you to sign up for it as well and make a day. Something in the middle of May.
TODD VOGT (13:29)
Yeah, when do you say, when is the date of it again?
I'm supposed to have lunch next week with my buddy Jay. I think I mentioned he's like the cyclist guy. But he's the guy who's been doing a bunch of sport races I might be able to get him in there too.
Eric Von Frohlich (13:41)
Yeah.
Yeah, he can carry me for sections of it. He could be like a sherpa. That's what I need. I need a sherpa to like strap me to their back in case I slow down. Or I shouldn't say in case I slow down for the inevitable slowdown of that race at some point.
TODD VOGT (13:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (14:01)
I have a crazy story of going to the New York Row ⁓ Christmas They had a.
TODD VOGT (14:06)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (14:09)
500 meter race and I decided that I was going to participate despite having gone there in jeans and ⁓ this 500 meters, like how bad could it be? So someone ends up giving me a pair of shorts and I get a pair of shorts and hop on the URG have four kids on the front holding it down and two on the back holding it down. And at that time I'm
TODD VOGT (14:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, sure. Whatever. mean, it's 500 meters, right?
Eric Von Frohlich (14:34)
Cross fitting and I'm in my mid 40s and I'm pretty strong and pretty fit to preface it. It was diagnosis and end up ripping a 117.3
TODD VOGT (14:37)
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
You illustrate a point. was gonna say like the CrossFitters crushed the 500. Like, you guys can just like generate so raw power, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (14:55)
Right it's just like deadlifting.
TODD VOGT (14:56)
Exactly. incredible. 117 for Yeah, that's
Eric Von Frohlich (15:00)
Yeah, it was kind of cold and just kind of like jump on an erg and just give it a rip. you know, I got a little plastic medallion that, proved my supremacy that day. And it was a great memory. I'm super happy I ended up doing
TODD VOGT (15:04)
Yeah.
You didn't go.
That's what I was going to say actually, like these CrossFit guys, they can crush it for 500 or 1000 meters, know?
Eric Von Frohlich (15:17)
Yay!
Yeah, but once you get past that, it's a different world.
TODD VOGT (15:24)
Yeah, exactly.
Eric Von Frohlich (15:26)
one minute mark and you figure, worst case, regardless how you feel, it's only 17 more seconds. mentally go there and just do what you need to do. Of course, my stroke rate was probably in the upper 40s to low
TODD VOGT (15:40)
Totally,
if you haven't done your zone two row, know, running train on the rower, you know, that's where it comes back to bite you. Anything beyond like a thousand meters. Like I did, okay, for one random story, my son's like 25, his name's Logan. Logan's an awesome kid. He's a big, huge kid, though. He's like...
Eric Von Frohlich (15:42)
Hahaha
Yeah.
TODD VOGT (15:59)
He's like a power lifter guy. whatever, we were at their house, I think for Christmas or something like that. And we were doing a workout on the rowing machine, some like CrossFit type of workout, know? And it was like increasingly longer distance of interval. So anything that was like 200, 250, 500, 750, Logan would beat me either by a lot or by a little. But as soon as we crossed the 700 meters,
Eric Von Frohlich (16:00)
Who's sheep is, Logan.
Right.
TODD VOGT (16:29)
meter threshold, it it was game over, know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:33)
You just had to bring him out to the deep water.
TODD VOGT (16:36)
Exactly, fun on the run machine.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:39)
Yeah,
there's one of my favorite workouts was a CrossFit workout called Karen, which is 150 wall balls. It's a 20 pound wall ball and you do a full squat and you throw it up to a target and you catch it and you do as many as you can for 150 reps or you do it as quick as you can for 150 reps. So I got a bright idea one day that I would combine that with a 2K row.
TODD VOGT (16:44)
Yeah. yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (17:07)
And so I did 500 meters on the rower, 50 wall balls, 500 meters, 50 wall balls, 500 meters, 50 wall balls, 500 meters. And it just kind of crushed my soul. And if you do if you do Karen and you're in phenomenal shape, you can go sub five. So you know, the problem is the motion is essentially the same muscle groups that are used when you're rowing. So.
TODD VOGT (17:24)
Okay, okay.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (17:34)
It's kind of like there's no place to hide. And so if you roll a decent 2K, you can pull somewhere between seven and eight conjunction the wall balls and not a lot of transition time. pretty intense. So anything I could sit at anything under 14 minutes and be pretty intense pretty good effort.
I would imagine you could probably pull that off today.
TODD VOGT (17:58)
think, that sounds fun. I mean, not fun, it sounds fun in sort of a, I guess a type two of what type of fun, I guess you could say. Yeah, exactly. I guess maybe the key with that, I'm just thinking out loud is you can find the right intensity where you can kind of just run that sort of your anaerobic threshold sort of pace. That speed, you don't blow.
Eric Von Frohlich (18:02)
miserable kind of way. Right.
Yeah, you
you flirt with you. You flirt with it the whole time.
TODD VOGT (18:19)
Yeah, exactly. Utterly blow up. Don't go off at 135 for one of your 500s whatever else
Eric Von Frohlich (18:26)
You know, you're shooting for negative splits ideally, but you know, even that can be ambitious if you have an aggressive split.
TODD VOGT (18:34)
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you, you know, you start a workout where you think it's a good pace for negative splits, it ain't happening. So, good luck, man.
Eric Von Frohlich (18:35)
Bye, mates.
Yeah, on any
given day, the best of plans get blown up.
TODD VOGT (18:46)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (18:47)
So, but I need to work my way back into fitness for that with like an eight pound wall ball and eight minute 2K and kind of see if I can actually pull that off again. And then I can work through the 14 pound wall ball and would be good for my shoulders and good for my rowing to try to get that workout back in.
TODD VOGT (19:01)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:09)
Even just to get it in the box. Even if it takes me 25 minutes or 30 minutes, it would just be notable to do it.
TODD VOGT (19:17)
Yeah.
Here's what we should do. We do a Zoom workout. Me and him go to the gym, do this workout and you do, we'll hook you up on Zoom. We do the workout together, the three of us.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:25)
I love it. What are you guys gonna do for the extra 20 minutes when you're waiting for me to finish?
TODD VOGT (19:26)
Yeah.
I don't know, coffee,
I don't know.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:33)
Yeah, that sounds awful, but incredibly fun.
TODD VOGT (19:36)
maybe that's one of the workouts that we do in preparation for get our stuff together.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:41)
Yeah, because if I can't do that, I have no business showing up for Spartan, especially at altitude.
TODD VOGT (19:46)
Yeah.
Jay and could do it in the altitude room as well. So we really want to suffer
Eric Von Frohlich (19:51)
Exactly, maybe I'll have to come up to Portland for some training. I just have to get a baseline. ⁓
TODD VOGT (19:54)
Certainly, yeah, that'd be fun. think you, yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:57)
I'm excited to get Helen on the on the program.
TODD VOGT (20:00)
Yeah, no doubt.
Eric Von Frohlich (20:01)
Well, what are you eating today?
TODD VOGT (20:05)
I was thinking of making, I was gonna go make dinner in about an hour. Here's what I was we got some salmon. I think I might just throw some salmon in the air fryer. We have some collard greens and I might make some rice. That's like my lazy man's pretty easy but tasty meal. Throw some rice in the Instant Pot, throw some salmon in the air fryer and then saute up some collard greens. How's that?
Eric Von Frohlich (20:29)
Sounds pretty good. With salmon in the northwest, do you just basically walk down to the river and stick your hand in there and grab one or do you actually have to?
TODD VOGT (20:37)
They're just handing it out on street corners.
Eric Von Frohlich (20:41)
We're going not salmon fishing, although I'm sure there'll be some of that. We're going halibut fishing in Alaska later this year.
TODD VOGT (20:45)
no.
Nice. That's good stuff man. Halibut's tasty, halibut's
Eric Von Frohlich (20:53)
Yeah, so it's we hope to subsidize the trip with lots of fish.
TODD VOGT (20:59)
Sweet. Yeah, because if you get halibut fish and chips, it's like 30 bucks, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (21:01)
Kinda saw it.
Exactly. There's an in the the Alaskan halibut are upwards of 200 pounds. So it's a pretty huge if you can hook one. So we'll see how that goes.
TODD VOGT (21:12)
Sweet.