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This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers and beyond) who want more flexibility while still doing work they love. As a freelance fashion designer, you can build your fashion career on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk). Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want. Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)
Heidi [00:00:00]:
Let's face it. Working in fashion can sometimes feel like a never ending hamster wheel. But the idea of freelancing can sound risky and maybe even a little bit crazy. But what if it wasn't? What if you could actually replace or even surpass your corporate salary? And what if you could kick off by pulling in $65100 in your 1st month? In this episode, we'll unpack the exact pitch that got Aiden noticed on Upwork even though she didn't have any ratings and the negotiation tips that turned a $2,000 offer into a $5,000 win. Plus, You'll hear how she set up her profile so that brands are now finding and reaching out to her. That's right. She's not having to pitch them. If you're tired of the toxic corporate rat race or feel like you're getting passed up by junior designers in the interview process, you're going to love this episode.
Heidi [00:00:44]:
Let's get to it. Okay. So talk to me. I know you've just landed a $5,000 and a $1500 client on Upwork in, like, 1 month. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:00:55]:
Yeah. In 1 month. I, let me see. I talked to Allison about, like, getting my feet wet. Like, I think I was in module 3 or even module 2. And, and she was like, yeah. Try it. She's like, at your level because I have a lot of experience.
Aidenn Mullen [00:01:09]:
Like it may it may work, it may not just like just try it out and so I took all your tips and wrote like a great pitch. I think it's a great pitch and, you know, I put like my LinkedIn details and stuff in there. So a few people have contacted me through LinkedIn just seeing that, but most through Upwork and, yeah, I got my my first client was like it turns out to be my biggest client so far. It's amazing. Yeah. It's been a great experience. He, he was looking for someone with my exact, background, so that really was advantageous for me. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:01:50]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:01:51]:
Yeah. Okay. So talk me through I mean, you said you you feel like you wrote a great pitch. You put your LinkedIn details in there. So I think, you know, partially the stars, it sound like aligned, like you popped on to Upwork. You're like, let me give this a try. You're you have a very lengthy amount of experience in your in your fashion career, which can be hit or miss on Upwork. There's a lot of beginners on there, but you gave it a shot and you happen to find something that looked really good.
Heidi [00:02:20]:
So talk can you talk through the pitch? Like, what exactly did you say? Yeah. What are and and then the whole, like, vetting process. Like, I wanna talk to the pitch and the discovery call and, like, the proposal and all of that.
Aidenn Mullen [00:02:30]:
Okay. Sure. Yeah. I pulled up my pitch so I can read it to you exactly. Oh, yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Good or bad.
Aidenn Mullen [00:02:36]:
I actually had one more client too that I didn't end up working with. But yeah. Anyway, a lot of attention. So here we go. So my title is user experience focused apparel designer. So a little background there. So I have a background in in fashion, but I also have a master's in user experience. It's mostly for UX designers or, industrial designers, like human centered designs, design thinking, those kinds of things.
Aidenn Mullen [00:03:00]:
So that's my niche. Okay. So, here's my pitch. Hey there. Are you looking to take your brand to the next level? I specialize in helping brands like yours dig into community consumer insights to create apparel that truly resonates with users. From concept to production, I'm here to bring your ideas to life and ensure that you see the return on your investment that makes it all worthwhile. So why choose me? With a master's in UX and over 23 years of experience working with big names like Wrangler, Adidas, Chubbies, and Fashippy, I know what it takes to succeed in the fashion industry. While I'm new to freelancing, my unique approach combines user experience research with the latest trends, striking aesthetics, practical garment functionality, and making your product stand out in a crowded market.
Aidenn Mullen [00:03:46]:
I can help you step up your game by creating or refining your products from the ground up. Plus, I've got a solid network in manufacturing in the manufacturing world with contacts for agents, mills, and full package production vendors. Whether it's developing trend mood boards, crafting your brand, handling trims or tags, or taking care of everything from prototyping to production, I'm passionate about what I do. Your needs and wants are my top priority. Let's team up and create amazing products that your consumers will love and need.
Heidi [00:04:18]:
I love this. Thanks. This is amazing. I'm like taking notes over here because there's some specific things that I wanted to point out that, why I think this works so well. Real quick though, before I do that, what was the job posting? Like, how lengthy was it? Did he specifically talk about wanting someone that was like user focused design approach?
Aidenn Mullen [00:04:42]:
No. Not yet. I actually haven't even gotten into the user experience part of my niche yet. Right now, it's just men's wear where I spent like 15 years of my career. So his post was Western men's designer, for shirts and jeans. And it was just super super brief. So I applied to that and I had a discovery call with him. As far as I understand, I think he works with a manufacturer, out of China.
Aidenn Mullen [00:05:10]:
So they're trying to do some direct products for big names like Boot Barn, Sheffler's, brands like Cavender's that I've worked with before in my time at Wrangler. So sort of like directly, competing with a Wrangler, an Ariat, stuff like that. So yeah. So I responded, to his it was one of those things where it suggested, that this was a good role for me on Upwork. I applied and then the next day I had, a discovery call with him. So it was pretty short and brief. I think that we both decided that it was a good match, based off of what his needs were and his competitor set and my knowledge. So, after that, he gave me, like, a small project, and I told him it would take me I think it was 6 to 8 hours to work on it.
Aidenn Mullen [00:06:02]:
Well, of course, it took me, like, 16. So I learned from that. I kind of lost money on that. So I was like, okay, like, after this exercise and it was just really designing, a shirt and a pair of jeans, like, just a technical sketch and like a film sketch. That's it. I I think it was just a little sample so he could see who he really wanted to work with for the longer, the rest of the collection. So yeah, so I lost money on that sort of if you do, you know, time per hour. So yeah, submitted to him and, he and his team reviewed it and they loved it.
Aidenn Mullen [00:06:37]:
And then after that, we started negotiating, for the larger package. Now, in his mind because I was such a deal the first time, he really wanted to bid super low for, what he needed. And so I sort of I had to really articulate, like, this is what you're getting. This is why it's worth it. So initially he wanted me to develop 5 styles and it's it's very artwork heavy and like applicators on the back. I was in the front patches like washes like heavy stitching. It's that kind of asserting for men's Western wear. So it's very time consuming and he initially wanted me to do 5 tops artwork, tech packs, all those things for I think $2,000 and it was just way too low and I and I know that because I listen to your podcast all the time and just the time I've spent in the modules and then also, the coaching calls I knew that was far too low and so I ended up negotiating a $5,000 contract for, 4 styles.
Heidi [00:07:49]:
You you more than double the price and you lower the deliverables.
Aidenn Mullen [00:07:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like I think yes. I think he was sold on it. So yeah. I just got really I just got really lucky with him. He's been super easy to deal with. I, my contract consists of, like, 2 milestones, so I just delivered one last week, where it's just, design, full sketch artwork and then I'm just there and that was $25100 that was approved last week And then the second half being, tech tax that's gonna come around November 4th, something like that.
Aidenn Mullen [00:08:23]:
But, the changes that we dealt with were super, super easy. Yeah. Yeah. Like super easy to deal with. It's very, very easy. Yeah. I just got lucky. Yeah.
Heidi [00:08:34]:
Okay. So so many nuanced questions and things I want to talk about here. Please. Yeah. So the job listing originally and we'll kind of start from the beginning here. The job listing originally was not that detailed or didn't give you hardly any information, but you still were like, this is in my niche. Like, I've done Western wear before. I've got these brands on my in my portfolio.
Heidi [00:08:57]:
And what I love is that you took the time to write this really thorough, well thought out pitch, even though he didn't give you anything to go off of. I mean, a couple of the things that I noted here was, you really highlighted the UI design, like, you're not designing something just to make it look pretty. You're really designing it with the end user in mind. Right.
Heidi [00:09:19]:
I
Heidi [00:09:19]:
think you made you you had something in there that, like, stand out styles that are, you know, gonna sell like talking about results and and the ultimate benefit that he's gonna get. You've leveraged your network with all of your connections with factories and suppliers, which I think is huge. Are you even doing that for this project or you're just doing the tech packs and impact? No.
Aidenn Mullen [00:09:38]:
Yeah, just the tech packs. Yeah,
Heidi [00:09:39]:
because I think
Aidenn Mullen [00:09:40]:
he works for a manufacturer.
Heidi [00:09:41]:
So Oh, gotcha. Yes. Gotcha. Mhmm. I love the line that you're like, you know, you and your designs are my top priority to like make this a success. I thought that was a really really strong line. And then also, you you you do you have any reviews on Upwork? Of course.
Aidenn Mullen [00:09:59]:
Okay. No. There's none. And
Heidi [00:10:00]:
you acknowledge that in the post. You're like, I'm new to freelancing.
Heidi [00:10:03]:
Yeah. But so I think it's so important to address the elephant in the room. So those are some of
Heidi [00:10:03]:
the things that stood the elephant in the room.
Heidi [00:10:07]:
So those
Heidi [00:10:07]:
are some of the things that stood out for people listening that I think
Heidi [00:10:10]:
were really, really well done in your pitch. Talk to us about
Heidi [00:10:10]:
the discovery call. Like, how did you run that? What did that look like? What sort of things did you guys talk about on that call?
Aidenn Mullen [00:10:21]:
Sure. I mean, I I did not have a script. Like, I think that it was it was after that call that I asked Allison, like, for a few of her probing questions. So it's really just like, you know, just like flying, you know, with whatever, I had. But, yeah, just asking about, like, who is who is his target consumer? What's his target market? Who are his competitive brands? And from then, I think it was pretty easy for us to, convince ourselves that we could work together just based on my direct experience. So I really, got fortunate, there. Absolutely. And also, like, he's really easy to deal with.
Aidenn Mullen [00:10:57]:
I I know that he does a lot of work off, off Upwork. Like he I think he works for, a manufacturer that has a really nice design house and they do men's streetwear, but, I think that he also knows that, them being based in China doesn't mean that they would understand the American Western male consumer, and that's also part of the appeal, with working for me. And I also understood that for them too.
Heidi [00:11:26]:
So like, yeah, I didn't really I didn't really use a
Aidenn Mullen [00:11:28]:
lot of user experience in this project, but what I can tell you is that I do leverage like what I know about the guys and I've, like on all this artwork like I've thrown in steer heads, I've thrown in scorpions, I've thrown in, angel wings, crosses, and, fleur de lis because I just know all of these things and, like, tooling, like, I know that all these things resonate with the Western consumer because I've just been in it. I was in it for so long. So that's part of, like, what has an emotional type for them, what they're used to, what they're used to looking at, what they want to represent. And that is part of the user experience. But, like, as far as my pitch, like, a lot of saying, like, the elephant in the room, like, yeah, I'm new to freelancing. That was all you. Like, that was all you saying. Like, put it out there.
Aidenn Mullen [00:12:17]:
Like, say, like, yeah. I don't have any reviews, you know, but this is why. And I think, you know, initially responding to his pitch, I did throw in there that I was the lead, Western men's denim designer. And then I touched lots of Wrangler product. I did definitely throw that in, like, altering my pitch just a little bit so he knew, who he was talking to before the discovery call.
Heidi [00:12:41]:
Okay. That's awesome. That's awesome. And then who initiated, like, doing the small trial project where you just designed 2 pieces to make sure that it was a big fit for something larger? Was that you
Aidenn Mullen [00:12:54]:
or him? Oh, that was him. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yep.
Heidi [00:12:57]:
Mhmm. And then did you tell did you say pricing for that saying like this is my hourly rate? And I think it's gonna take about 6 to 8 hours. Is that kind of how that worked out?
Aidenn Mullen [00:13:04]:
Yeah. Exactly. I said $60 an hour and I said like 6 to 8 hours and it was not.
Heidi [00:13:10]:
Why do you think it took so much longer than you thought in your head? Like, it's interesting. Right? Because someone who has so much experience, it's like, you know what it takes to design. And and I'm not here to make you feel bad because
Aidenn Mullen [00:13:21]:
No. No.
Heidi [00:13:21]:
Everybody goes through this with as a freelancer. Yeah. Like, where do you think, like, that disconnect happened, between what you estimated and what it actually took?
Aidenn Mullen [00:13:31]:
I think that I used to have when I was at Wrangler, I had all my tools organized. Like, we knew, like, all the western back yolks. Like, I already had, you know, a denim sketch all these things. Now while I still have some of those like vector assets, you know, the relevance in my mind, it's been like 6 or 7 years. So I didn't really have all those tools like at my fingertips And I think, you know, and for me, like, I do spend a fair amount of time on research because I do really feel it's important. And so while I'm familiar with the market, that's 7 years ago. So I did take the time to refresh my mind in what's going on in the market with major retailers, especially the ones that he's targeting. You know, and looking at, like yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:14:15]:
I may have leveraged clip art, but I also, like, changed things a little bit, you know, looking at washes, leveraging what I knew. It just took a lot more time. I want to get hard as a designer to kind of quantify, like, how much time will that take you? And usually, like, I'll pad it, you know, like in when I'm a corporate employee, like, okay, I need a week to complete this one project just in case I need a little bit longer. But also, like, I I learned this from you too is, like, it's a great idea to kind of pad your project and deliver early, and that's what I also was in doing. That has been great. Like, it's. Love it. It's so simple and people love it.
Aidenn Mullen [00:14:56]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yep. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:14:58]:
That's fantastic.
Aidenn Mullen [00:14:59]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:15:00]:
So I you know, it sounds a little bit like if you didn't what happened during your 7 year break? Was it just you were doing other type of product design? Or okay. Just not specifically integrated into the Western category.
Aidenn Mullen [00:15:14]:
That's right. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. I spent like a few like a year or 2 as you guys kids, but then I went back to menswear as director of product and that was like 3 years. Getting COVID was all in there.
Heidi [00:15:26]:
That's new
Aidenn Mullen [00:15:28]:
too. So yeah.
Heidi [00:15:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been laid
Aidenn Mullen [00:15:31]:
out like twice so this is all new to me and like I'm so I wish that I would have found you years ago but you know everything happens for a reason I wouldn't know I wouldn't know everything I know today you know had I not been in other jobs so yeah yeah totally yeah
Heidi [00:15:48]:
yeah so and this is, you know, I is do you think Western is gonna be kind of your niche or this just happened to be your first project?
Aidenn Mullen [00:15:59]:
Yeah. Just my first project. I've actually been working with, another brand who's like aviation inspired men's wear and they are so fun. It's like 2 twins that just got their private license their private pilot's license and they figured this is a white space in the market and they're absolutely right and I happen to understand aviation a little bit. I was married to a pilot. He's a non pilot, Air Force pilot, so I know a little bit about it. So yes, these guys they found me in Upwork but he was kind of clever enough to find me on LinkedIn and like figured out how to contact me off of Upwork which right?
Heidi [00:16:39]:
I have been that client. Yes. Cheers to us.
Aidenn Mullen [00:16:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:16:42]:
I
Aidenn Mullen [00:16:42]:
mean, it's the way to go. I mean, you know, we'll see. But yeah, they've been great to work with. They're super fun. Like they listen to what I have to say, like helping them with screen prints. So I helped them. They were actually there right now they're just printing on blanks and so I did a small project assorting their winter collection with what was still available in the market and, and he really loved my pitch. He's a web designer and so he works with UX designers.
Aidenn Mullen [00:17:10]:
So I think he found that intriguing like how, you know, it's not just aesthetic or trend. It's it's what works for the customer. So yeah, so I've been working with them and then I think for the future once they wrap up, you know all their orders for winter, we're going to start working on direct manufacturer, for spring. So yeah, I've been loving that so more menswear and then I also I also was contacted on Upwork for a really nice size men's men's wear women's wear fishing like kids fishing company and it was gonna be a great opportunity. But, you know, and I've spent a lot of time on the pitch. He wanted a UX case study for fashion and I was really great that you know, I got the time to kind of put that together and what it looks like but unfortunately, he felt like my prices were too high and I think that he wanted to go low with people on Upwork and, that's okay. But you know, as soon as you get what you pay for so, you know, I did. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:18:11]:
Yeah. So like my last job for 3 years was that, a fishing inspired company. So it would have been like another direct competitor really. Yeah. So hopefully maybe work together in the future. Who knows what will happen?
Heidi [00:18:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:18:27]:
Well, the reason I asked about Western being your niche was just because I think that oftentimes when, you know, one of the reasons I really push being niche is because it ultimately does make your job easier. If you're not doing Western all the time or, you know, haven't done it for a couple years or you randomly take this project in this other category, it takes more time to, like you said, get caught up and then the project can, like, slowly just absorb a lot more than you initially anticipated because you're now refreshing yourself on the trends and the market and all your cabs and your flats and stuff. Mhmm. Just takes a little bit more work. So, just something I always think about with niche and you're not the first person I've heard about who are like, oh, and I took this project and I hadn't done the thing for and it just took me a lot longer. Right? Had you been doing western on a continuous basis?
Heidi [00:19:14]:
Mhmm.
Heidi [00:19:15]:
I think you very likely could have gotten it done in the 6 to 8 hours.
Aidenn Mullen [00:19:18]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I would have had a lot more artwork at my fingertips. Like, absolutely. Yeah, for now, I just want to stick with menswear and hopefully the user experience like focused apparel design will pick up, but I'm really I'm not quite sure Heidi yet. I'm still like midway through module 4. I've been so busy with all these projects, which I'm super super thankful for, that I haven't been able to get through like the rest of the modules.
Heidi [00:19:45]:
So yes. We'll see what happens. To have though.
Aidenn Mullen [00:19:49]:
Yes. It is. It is. I'm very thankful.
Heidi [00:19:51]:
I wanna still talk about more nuances in the project though. So you you kind of, you you lost your rate on the trial project because it just took a lot more time. But then you went from him wanting 5 styles for 2,000 to getting 4 styles for 5,000. Talk to me about that negotiation process and how you were able to turn that around to make it a much better price for you? Sure.
Aidenn Mullen [00:20:21]:
I think after the first review, his design his head designer was like, yes. This person knows exactly what she's doing. You should hire her. I think that validation helped me a lot, considering, you know, it's my first time freelancing. Also, you know, I think that I just stood my ground when it came to when it came to, you know, 5 styles for $2,000. My argument if you will was that my, you know, my experience just validates a higher cost. Yeah. And what the return that you're gonna get on this quality, of styles is truly worth it.
Aidenn Mullen [00:20:59]:
When you're going after these competitors. I know exactly what they want. I I know them personally. I know what they're looking for, and you know, I try to negotiate, just like you said, like I use like the the tiered pricing model. And so I was like, you know, you can get 5 for like 65100. I basically like just went out all the packages and he did choose the middle package after a little negotiation. I tried to get him to do 5 styles, you know artwork everything like that. No tech pack because I know he has a design team, for 5,000 and he's the one that came back and said we'll do 4 styles for 5,000.
Aidenn Mullen [00:21:44]:
So it was really just standing, my ground and and somehow validating with my experience.
Heidi [00:21:51]:
Yeah. Good for you. I'm really, really happy that you did that and hope you're feeling like really proud of yourself and
Heidi [00:21:59]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:21:59]:
That it all worked out. Mhmm.
Aidenn Mullen [00:22:01]:
I can tell you my big mistake with the fishing, the fishing potential contract because that would have been also a really big contract in the same month. Not that I I don't know how I would have handled all that work. But everything happens to reason, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know what I did? I made a huge mistake because I think I was in, like, module 2 or maybe beginning of 3. And I hadn't gotten to the part where you don't send the pitch and the numbers and the proposal beef, like, without talking them directly and setting a second appointment. And I think that that's really how I lost that potential contract.
Aidenn Mullen [00:22:42]:
You know, but it's also I do listen to you when you say, like, if there's a red flag or someone doesn't really, want to, value you for your work that, you know, seems that won't change. So I did kind of like I was like, okay, you know, hey, like, best of luck to you. It'd be great to work in the future because I really would like him as a person. I had vision. Like, I love that. But, yeah, that's how I think I kind of messed up that contract.
Heidi [00:23:04]:
And for those of you out
Aidenn Mullen [00:23:05]:
there that are doing it, yeah, that's a lesson.
Heidi [00:23:08]:
Look at
Heidi [00:23:09]:
the second call and get on a call to review the proposal, especially when this is at a certain price point. You really want to do that.
Aidenn Mullen [00:23:16]:
Yeah, for sure.
Heidi [00:23:18]:
Yep. That's okay lesson learned and like you said I wouldn't be surprised if they came back for some reason because they're not getting what they want at the cheaper price and they know that you're like the right match, etcetera. And if not then it was meant to be and it wouldn't have been a great project anyways.
Aidenn Mullen [00:23:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like my argument for him was that, you know, obviously I've been in a fishing lifestyle brand for 3 years. But when you talk about a user, the guy that's fishing, there's a lot of functionality that he needs that your everyday run of the mill designer may not know about. Right? Like, whether it's wicking fabrics, what's the newest nylon span that's out there, what's the manufacturer to work with, like, a fire pocket for a bottom. Like there are so many things that one would not know about. And for this particular client, he really wanted to compete with those functional fishing brands. So yeah, but
Heidi [00:24:16]:
I think it would have
Aidenn Mullen [00:24:18]:
been great. Yeah.
Heidi [00:24:20]:
Yeah. Maybe he's listening.
Aidenn Mullen [00:24:22]:
Yeah. We'll see. You did great, but you know, maybe we can work together in the future, you know,
Heidi [00:24:27]:
we'll
Aidenn Mullen [00:24:27]:
see. Yeah. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:24:29]:
Okay. So you're you're halfway through the $5,000 project with the Western Wear brand. You've done you did the first, milestone, which was the design and now you're finishing up the tech packs. How are you feeling like the time has gone in terms of your what you've put into it based off of the rate that you're getting? Do you feel like you've recovered from the trial project? And you're you're you're much more taken care of in this project?
Aidenn Mullen [00:24:54]:
Yeah. I do. I do. I did the old trick where you say, like, draw like, you know, drop it drop some zeros and, like, do, like, you know, 85 to a $100100 an hour, that kind of thing. And that's how I came up with the 5,000. I figured it would take me, like, a month on this project and I've also been working with the aviation guys too. So yeah, I know I totally do and and you know with both my current clients I feel like I'm being compensated for my work respected for my work. Like, yeah, I think I learned the lesson but not to say like, I you know, I was talking to Allison that I know that there will be other lessons to be learned, you know, despite experience, like it's still new, you know, So I I accept to fail hard and then, you know, we'll we'll figure it out on the back end.
Aidenn Mullen [00:25:41]:
I'm also keeping, like, a, like a Google sheet of, like, how long it's taking me
Heidi [00:25:45]:
to do
Aidenn Mullen [00:25:45]:
certain tasks just so I have something to refer to if I have to, like, kind of figure it out off the cuff.
Heidi [00:25:51]:
Yeah. That's really smart. That's really smart. So, okay. So you did like the 85 to a 100 for this $5,000 project, but it sounds like on the trial project you did 60. Did you, like, negotiate that as like a trial project rate specifically? Like you would do it for reduced rate or you just never told him with the 5,000 with the what they the behind the scenes you were using a higher hourly rate? Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:26:13]:
No. I did not. I never really had to break it down. He did not ask me to break down, what I did for the 5,000, for that project. How I got you know, the first time when I kind of lost money is I just put $60 an hour on Upwork because I felt like that was kind of a mainstream hourly I don't know. I think I just made it up really. Okay. I felt like it because I hadn't gotten through all the modules, so I was like, that sounds okay.
Aidenn Mullen [00:26:40]:
I mean, kind of my heart of hearts, I was like, that's a little low, but we'll see what happens. It's Upwork, so I thought,
Heidi [00:26:45]:
like, yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:26:46]:
Yeah. So it was just an arbitrary number, to be honest. And then okay.
Heidi [00:26:50]:
Yeah. So you found the Western Wear job on Upwork and Pitch. But then you said the aviation guy found you on Upwork, but then found you, like, scouted you out through LinkedIn. Yeah. Do you like, you have a brand new profile with no reviews.
Heidi [00:27:06]:
Mhmm. How do
Heidi [00:27:07]:
you think he found you? Do you know?
Aidenn Mullen [00:27:09]:
I I he said that he said that I was the one that seemed the most qualified that he found on Upwork. Okay. So Let's talk about your profile then.
Heidi [00:27:21]:
What have you done? I I I no. I I wanna pull it up here. Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Find it if I
Aidenn Mullen [00:27:27]:
just search your name? Or yeah. Probably. Like, I I I just put, like, 3, you know, 3 projects on there. I did put my portfolio website link on there. Okay. And my portfolio is pretty darn stacked with things. Okay. And yeah.
Heidi [00:27:47]:
Mhmm. We'll
Heidi [00:27:48]:
see if I can find this. Is your okay. So you have a link an outbound link to your portfolio, which is a website set up?
Aidenn Mullen [00:27:59]:
Yep. Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:28:02]:
Alright. Let's see if it's coming up. M u l e n. It's m u l.
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:08]:
Yeah. M u l l. Oh, there
Heidi [00:28:09]:
you are.
Heidi [00:28:09]:
There you are. Mhmm. Okay. It does say $2,000 turn. And you increased your price to 95 an hour.
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think that was after after, I learned that hard lesson and then after I got through some more modules, I was like, wait. Okay. Good. I changed this.
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Heidi [00:28:28]:
Oh, wow. Okay. So you have a really thorough, introduction. Why choose me? Whether you wanna do this, this, and then you have a key skills overview. Mhmm. Okay.
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:39]:
A lot of skills. Okay.
Heidi [00:28:42]:
We'll link to this in the, show notes, so people can
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:46]:
take a look. Sure. Sure.
Heidi [00:28:48]:
But, yeah, I can just see at a glance. You've got some really nice technical sketches with outerwear. You've got your website. I'm not gonna go through all this since we're obviously on an audio podcast.
Aidenn Mullen [00:28:59]:
But we'll get
Heidi [00:29:00]:
to this
Heidi [00:29:00]:
in the show notes so people can take a look. Okay. So he found you and then snuck through on LinkedIn. And how did that, like, proposal and vetting process go for you? Did you guys do a trial project or you just jump straight in? And what did that look like? Like, what kind of lessons did you learn in that? I guess based off of maybe your experience from that first project with the Western Work guy. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:29:21]:
I mean, I I think that he just he found me on LinkedIn and he found my email address and just, directly emailed me. And he was like, hey, like, you know, I've got this brand. I need some help. I want to start, working with actual manufacturers because we're starting to pick up on units and sales. And, and we booked a discovery call. I think he emailed me, you know, he's on a West Coast time and on the East Coast. He, he emailed me like 8 o'clock at night and I set up a discovery call at like 11 the next day. I was like, hey, what's the earliest you can do? So like I think you know that, immediate like reaction or instant gratification, was, helped a lot too.
Aidenn Mullen [00:30:00]:
And, yeah, he just said that he he's like, you seem like the most qualified. I like your background, and I think that he is familiar with all the brands that I had to mention, in in my Upwork. And, yeah. We booked a discovery call. He kind of, like, told me all the things that they've been working on. I love the brand and then I just kind of, like, threw out, like, hey. Like, we can do all of these things. I these guys, they are they are not in the apparel world.
Aidenn Mullen [00:30:27]:
They don't really they just kind of like jumped in to what they saw was in need. And so they really want me to take them through the manufacturing process, like, in a true apparel industry product development way. And so that's really what I offered to leverage them. I think that initially he was interested in my user experience, case study. And I told him like when we get to that point he has some downtime, we can go over it because I know he wants to know like what's what's that all about. But that wasn't the initial interest. It was just my background and I think, so much experience in menswear. And I think my portfolio helped too.
Aidenn Mullen [00:31:06]:
I know he checked that out as well.
Heidi [00:31:08]:
Yeah. That's
Heidi [00:31:09]:
awesome. Yeah.
Heidi [00:31:09]:
So this is the $1500 project. Yeah. Okay. So these are the 2. You got the $5,000 menswear and the $15,000 at the aviation company. In your 1st month from, like, tossing an Upwork, I shouldn't say talking about because you put some work into your profile. I can tell. Mhmm.
Heidi [00:31:26]:
Yeah. And you're probably You already had built out. I imagine.
Aidenn Mullen [00:31:28]:
Yeah. I did. Like it's, you know, I've been, I've been laid off for a year. And so I had been going through all the motions of interviewing for a year and I live in like rural North Carolina and I just can't tell you it's election year yada yada. It is really difficult to get to I think there's a few different things going on. I think that I'm very remote North Carolina.
Heidi [00:31:52]:
I was
Aidenn Mullen [00:31:52]:
on a lot of apparel here and what there is I've kind of exhausted it. And, that my level of seniority, it's really hard. They want to hire junior designers, associate designers, assistant designers. Once you get that director title, it just felt like, that was like a nail in the coffin for me. Like they they were like, oh, we just want a senior designer. So and then also a lot of my interviews this year, it felt like consulting work and I felt like I was giving brands advice. They were smaller brands and then I would never they were smaller brands and bigger like, Nordstrom, like so many, Patagonia, but also like smaller brands and then I would never hear from the smaller brands after we had this call. And I was like, okay, this is becoming obvious that it they want to leverage my expertise.
Aidenn Mullen [00:32:42]:
And I was like, you know what? This is exactly what I should do. I should just try working for myself. So I called, my freelancing thing. I'm calling it the UX Fashion Design Agency, because I haven't seen anything else like that out there. And you know, like in my last rule, I did leverage a lot of design thinking methodology to help these guys. They've been around for like 10 years or so when I started working for them, but they really were unsure of who their customer was versus their aspirational customer. They wanted to become less of a Vineyard Vine, so their entire kind of look and more of an outdoor like pool guy, almost surfing but fishing inspired. So I did a lot of work with them like, kind of, like, coming up with consumer personas.
Aidenn Mullen [00:33:31]:
Like, one was named Travis, one was named Ty. And, like, just using that language, we could figure out, like, in our assortment, is this a Travis? Is this a Ty? How quickly are we turning the pendulum? You know, are we serving both of our customers or maybe even a third customer profile? So, anyway, so I am in all the things that I've been through this year, it was, all the men's wear interviews. It was one men's wear interview with Nordstrom and the guy, was really cool. He actually went to the same college that I did at SCAD. And he was like, you need to change your portfolio to read more men's wear. And He was absolutely right and his portfolio was beautiful. And so that's how that's how I changed my portfolio.
Heidi [00:34:15]:
Okay. That was very generous of him to give you that insight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:34:18]:
Yeah. He worked for Wrangler too. So, you know, it's a small world. Yeah. It's a really small world. Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:34:24]:
Yeah. Okay. So you had, like, been on all these interviews where you're like, am I just consulting and then they're ghosting me? Although you got a good tip from the Nordstrom guy. So thank you Nordstrom guy. Yeah. And you're like, like, what was there a tipping point where you're like, I'm gonna go freelance? Or was there a moment where you, like, kind of thought of started thinking about that as a viable career path? Or is it something always in the back of your head? Or like, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that transition point because I've talked to people who are in your exact same shoes. They're like, oh, especially at like a higher seniority level. It can get really tough.
Heidi [00:34:59]:
So where was your
Aidenn Mullen [00:35:00]:
head with all of that? Yeah. It is. Well let me see, I freelance a little bit throughout the years like even in my first job I started freelancing with the textile designer on the side because she taught me how to do textile designs. So I've been doing it here and there. I used to sell some prints online just like you know here and there but I'm also a single mom and I've been really busy so like not a lot of time to do it. But yeah, like I've also like I was freelancing during COVID when I got laid off and I got burned for $27100 she never paid me. So like it you know that was a hard lesson to learn too. So I really honestly think Heidi, like freelancing and having this agency is half of my plan for the future.
Aidenn Mullen [00:35:46]:
I actually am getting ready to move to Gig Harbor, Washington.
Heidi [00:35:50]:
Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:35:51]:
And I bought a men's wear store there. Oh, wait. What?
Heidi [00:35:55]:
You bought a store?
Aidenn Mullen [00:35:56]:
Mhmm. I did. Yep. I did. So, like, after I figured out I've been looking at a business to buy because I just figured out that being a corporate employee wasn't necessarily gonna pan out for me again. And also, there are a lot of things that really held me back being a corporate employee, and I decided, like, you know I can be an entrepreneur. And so I really been exploring like so many different avenues this year. So I found the store that I wanted to buy, and I thought okay like I'm gonna I'm gonna have a menswear store and I'm gonna have my own design agency and that's kind of how it all came to fruition because you can't have a corporate job and own a store right?
Heidi [00:36:35]:
No, you sure can't.
Aidenn Mullen [00:36:36]:
Yeah, yeah. So that's really how I was just like I'm not applying I'm not applying for jobs anymore. I stopped applying for jobs probably around the time that I that I joined, that I joined your program.
Heidi [00:36:50]:
Okay.
Heidi [00:36:51]:
Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:36:51]:
Yeah. And I mean it was I talked to, I think it was Courtney and then there was another girl that just moved to North Carolina. I can't remember her name. Yeah Jacqueline. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I talked to them like independently. I just hit them up on LinkedIn and I was like hey how's how's Heidi's course and we had like a zoom call just like this and I was like okay I'm a believer like I'm doing this. And then from then on,
Heidi [00:37:15]:
I was
Aidenn Mullen [00:37:16]:
like, I'm trying it. Like, this is this is the way to go.
Heidi [00:37:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, you had freelance before.
Aidenn Mullen [00:37:23]:
I mean,
Heidi [00:37:23]:
I know you got burnt on the $27100 project. I'm sorry about that. That's the worst when that Literally. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, how come you weren't, like, oh, I I know how to do this. I can figure this out. Like, what at what point were you, like, you know what?
Heidi [00:37:40]:
I I
Heidi [00:37:40]:
think it's worth investing in Fast Track to get the support. I mean, obviously, you talked just to other students, which I know can be a huge like, hearing it from the horse's mouth. Right? Yeah. Mhmm. But, you had done it before.
Aidenn Mullen [00:37:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. I've done it before. I think well for me, like, just my UX experience, like, I was doing consumer research on you, like, on your past program. Right? And that's what convinced me. To be honest, like, there wasn't anything else that was really working out for me, And I thought like this is I'm doing all these consulting calls and the more I thought about what I'm giving and how I felt like I'm giving my own advice and people are finding it valuable but I'm not getting a return, the more obvious it was to me that this is the path I should be on. You know, I have, like, so many great contacts out there, so many great manufacturers, mills, like and then I also have my own little network that I thought, like, I could I could have my own freelancers for my agency. Nonetheless, at my last job that
Heidi [00:38:45]:
I was there for 3 years
Aidenn Mullen [00:38:47]:
I was director of product but I was the only apparel industry person in my office. So I was like product development sourcing merchandising and then I also worked with design freelancers and a lady that owns her own freelance agency. So I saw her success and I thought, you know what? Maybe this is why I'm here because I'm watching what she's doing. I read her, I read her contracts. I watched, like, her make, you know, 5 rounds of changes and, like, I watched her go through that and I felt like that was also an invaluable experience for me to understand that I can do this. Why it didn't occur to me when I first got laid off, I think I was just pre programmed to be a corporate employee. Yeah. And relying on that, I think that that was just my mindset.
Aidenn Mullen [00:39:40]:
Yeah. And I had to, like, break free of that because, you know, there are so many benefits, but it's also, like, a little bit like golden handcuffs, you know. And I love working with all different brands. Like I really love helping people and this is this is just the way to go. I'm working with so many different people, learning so many different things. Yeah, so that's kind of how it's like a whole culmination of putting everything together after a year.
Heidi [00:40:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am excited you, like, took a leap on yourself and have jumped in to do this and your menswear store. That's really cool.
Heidi [00:40:16]:
When are
Heidi [00:40:16]:
you moving up there? When is all that happening?
Aidenn Mullen [00:40:18]:
In 3 weeks. Oh, like now? Uh-huh. Yeah. Like now. Yeah. So I took this project and I have been so busy on it that I'm gonna hire like, I'm just hiring people to help me pack because I've been so busy. So, like, you know, financially, I might cancel each other out. But, like in the future, I hope they'll get another contract with him because he's been so pleasant to work with.
Aidenn Mullen [00:40:39]:
So I figure like it's worth it but yeah behind the scenes I've been doing all the things that I never knew how to do like set up a business license, get my resellers permit, my tax ID, like I've been doing all these things and like literally guys like it's just one step in front of the other like
Heidi [00:40:57]:
that's all it is.
Aidenn Mullen [00:40:58]:
That's all it is and just believing in yourself. If other people can do it, you can do it. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm excited and maybe one day I'm hoping you know, if I can if I can get my menswear store to really thrive and from what I've done like research wise, it's a white space where we are right now. So I'm thankful for that. The only other places to shop for menswear is Kohl's, Target, and Costco. So and we're talking about specialty curated menswear, right? With maybe a little bit of outdoor flare, Pacific Northwest kind of, you know, kind of stuff, but yeah, I'm getting ready to buy like all my Christmas product and yeah, so hopefully in the future, you know if I can grow my business which I'd love to have more than one store I could leverage my manufacturing content then and like develop my own products Like, who knows. Right? I'm very very optimistic.
Aidenn Mullen [00:41:49]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:41:50]:
Yeah. Mhmm. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, I am really excited for you. Thanks. Get with Allison or Mari on a coaching call
Heidi [00:41:59]:
and
Heidi [00:41:59]:
talk with them about, like, continuing to nurture these relationships to Okay. Another project. There's some, like, small subtle strategies you can use Okay. To help, like, build that into the next thing. Yeah. So I know you can do it, and we're gonna have to have you back on in a year with some, like, serious update. I can only imagine where you're gonna be.
Aidenn Mullen [00:42:20]:
Hopefully, all will be well. I mean, I'm having a blast. I've never felt felt, like, so confident and happy in my direction as as sad as getting laid off is because, you know, you're passionate about it. It's like your baby, like everything like it seems to be happening for a reason but thank you so much. I love your program and I'm always telling my friends that are out there whether they're unhappy in their roles or they you know have just been kind of like being a mom for a little while. I'm like you can do this. Yeah. Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:42:48]:
So but thank you, Heidi. I love your program. I can't wait to, like, finish the rest of the module.
Heidi [00:42:54]:
But look
Heidi [00:42:54]:
at what you've done already and, like Yeah. With with the first few modules, a little bit of support from Allison and Yeah. Like your 1st month is amazing. Yes.
Aidenn Mullen [00:43:04]:
I love the network.
Heidi [00:43:06]:
I've been
Aidenn Mullen [00:43:06]:
on coaching calls and some I haven't been able to be on because of the the work that I've been doing, but the ones that I can join have been, completely worth it, like, great. I mean, this I learned just from what other people are going through. It's it's amazing. I never imagined that this network was out there.
Heidi [00:43:23]:
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's so awesome. Too. You're welcome. That's amazing. I would love to end the interview with the question I ask everybody, which is, what is one thing people never ask you about freelancing and fashion that you wish they would?
Aidenn Mullen [00:43:37]:
Oh my gosh. See, I should have prepared for this because I know you
Heidi [00:43:39]:
asked this. I know. You're you're list and everybody's Yeah.
Aidenn Mullen [00:43:42]:
I've heard this question a 100 times,
Heidi [00:43:44]:
and why wasn't I ready?
Aidenn Mullen [00:43:46]:
Yeah. You know, I I think that there is like, when you talk about the term freelancing, I think that there, you know, is some sort of, negative notion in people's minds that it can't be consistent. And, like, I am here to say that I feel like it really can be more consistent. I've seen that from the people that are in your program, from the coaches. I've heard it and I've listened to so many of these podcasts. And I feel like, you know, I feel like a lot of people think like, oh, you're just doing things here and there. How hard is that? But I just I feel like, you know, in the end you can't end up making more than you were making, in a corporate life. And you can you don't have to be strapped down to the corporate life.
Aidenn Mullen [00:44:31]:
You can do different things. Like you can touch different products. Yeah. I feel like I feel like they would I would love people to ask me about how I feel that freelancing is successful.
Heidi [00:44:44]:
That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. Well, you are living, breathing proof of it right here. I'm so excited for you. This is just like the beginning foundation of I feel like a whole new life for yourself, which is amazing. You're really taking control over everything. I hope so.
Heidi [00:44:58]:
Yeah. Where's the best place for people to connect with you? We'll link your Upwork profile, but Okay.
Aidenn Mullen [00:45:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. LinkedIn. LinkedIn, Mullen Aden. Yep. Yep. All my contact information is on there.
Heidi [00:45:08]:
Okay. Great. We'll link your your, LinkedIn profile as well. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been lovely to chat with you.
Aidenn Mullen [00:45:15]:
Thank you, Heidi. Take care.