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Real Talk with Sterling Real Estate Group is your go-to resource for all things real estate. In our episodes, we break down the latest market trends, share insider tips, and provide expert insights to empower your property journey. Whether you're buying, selling, building, or investing, we're here to help you navigate the dynamic world of real estate in New York's Capital Region and beyond. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover in a future episode, we’d love to hear from you! Reach out to us at info@sterling518.com.
Lisa Licata (00:37)
Hi, welcome to Real Talk. It's Sterling Real Estate Group. Today I'm very excited to have Jim Palmieri from Excelsior Restoration Services with us today. Welcome, Jim. Thank you. And we're going to be talking about everything you need to know about mold. Yep, I'm your guy. And hopefully, and then some. I know your company does a lot more than that. So, Jim, to get started, let's talk about what causes mold. Mold is... ⁓
It's a living thing, so it's moisture. Moisture is the key ingredient to have mold. So if you have damp environments like basements, a leaky sink, under counters, ⁓ attics that aren't ventilated well, it accumulates moisture. then mold spores are in the air at all times, and they're microscopic, and you can't see them. So ⁓ being a living thing, they need the same three things to survive as all of us, food, oxygen, and water. In correct temperatures, but food, oxygen, and water. We all need that to survive.
The food is the house or the structure. The oxygen is the oxygen. Nobody can do anything about that. We can't knock houses down. You got to live in them. So moisture is the only thing that you can deal with. When you get rid of the moisture, which causes mold growth, it's impossible to have mold. So in a nutshell, it's moisture that causes mold. So I know when you're talking about moisture and we talk about dehumidifiers in basements or areas, ⁓ just because you're running that, you still have to correct the problem.
That is causing that mold or what's causing that moisture in the area. correct. I mean, in a basement, ⁓ the basements are cooler. ⁓ So at this time of year when it's really hot and it's really sticky and muggy outside, that's all humidity. Well, it's just I always tell people it's the same thing as like when you grab a glass out of your cupboard, it's dry and then you put some ice in it, you fill it with lemonade, you walk outside that glass instantly sweats because the glass is colder. So it takes that humid air and condensates it on the glass.
Well, same with basements. They're also cooler, so that moist air will get down there and then it'll eventually condensate on the walls and it gets tacky down there. And that causes mold. So dehumidifiers take care of that. Now, if you have leaks from pipes, if you have groundwater intrusion through cracks in the foundation and water streaming in, well, dehumidifier is only gonna do so much. So you've gotta stop the water from coming in.
And what a dehumidifier does is stop the humid water, the humidity is moist air, it just stops that. So it won't clean up wet floors and all that stuff. you gotta- So it's just a regular battle. So again, you gotta correct the problem. if there's cracks and water coming in- Yeah, that's all gotta be taken care of. Otherwise you're just pushing a rock, not really doing anything. So what happens if a homeowner calls you?
they come in to remediate you, they call you to remediate and they're like, no, we don't want to fix the problem and just get rid of the mold. How do you deal with that? How do you- We will be honest with them and say, if you don't mind, if you don't mind just spending money for me for something that's not gonna, you're not gonna get, well, that's on you. It seems kind of foolish because I'm going to tell you, I'm going to get rid of the mold and it's going to come right back. So that seems kind of foolish to do that. I mean, you'd want, the number one rule is stop the source.
then you get rid of the mold. So otherwise, you're not doing anything. If you've got a leaky canoe, you don't just keep bailing it out, you fix the leak. You're just not doing anything. so, But yeah, you'd be surprised you get people who will, ⁓ it's usually people selling homes and stuff, they don't want to invest in a lot of money that they're, in a house they're leaving in. And then you got to say, look, this is going to be a problem. No matter who comes to look at your house, home inspectors will find this. So it's got to be fixed.
So Jim, tell us, how does mold get into a building? Well, mold is in the environment at all times, especially upstate New York. We live in a forest. All of upstate New York is in the middle of a forest. We are surrounded by all the trees and everything like that. Well, ⁓ seed spores are the most common thing that happens in a house. And those are the mold spores that usually come from plants, decaying plants and everything else. So every single tree, shrub,
everything out there releases seed spores, which is necessary because all this stuff dies and needs to decay and go away. Unconsumed animals, everything has to decay. Otherwise we would still have dead animals and trees from thousands of years ago still here. So even between you and I right now, there's a trillion mold spores that are floating through the air. There's nothing you can do about it. I'll give you another interesting fact about it. One of the theories on why we age is mold is breaking us down.
⁓ Basically, we live longer now than like if this was the 1700s. Well, no disrespect, but you and I would probably have one foot in the grave by now. We weren't gonna be living much longer than this, but now because of antibiotics and things like that, that we're scratching the surface of mold. And medicine is figuring out how to combat most of this. We're living longer. Your grandchildren.
might be a common thing for everybody at your grandchildren's generation to live well over 100. Well, we celebrate it like it's a great milestone. It might be the norm 50, 60 years from now. So, but anyway, these spores are always floating through the air. And remember when I told you that it's a living thing, it's a seed, it needs oxygen, water, moisture, food source. So.
They're coming in through the into the house. They come in on your clothes They come in through cracks crevices opening the door and it all comes in and then when what happens is they'll land everywhere and a lot of times when you dust a house a lot of that is and you know, it's debris and random dust and skin cells and gross things but Trillions and trillions and trillions of mold spores that didn't make it they just basically they become dust and you get it off That's why people have dust allergens, right? But then there's mold spores that will hit a moist environment and that's its ingredient
and then starts to germinate. And even when you see like black on wood or on sheetrock or something, that's not even the mold that you're seeing. What it is, is the byproduct of mold. It's called hyphae. It's basically a sterile byproduct of mold. And for lack of better poop, because all living, ⁓ better term, it's mold poop. everything that lives eats and secretes. And that's what mold does. So it's showing you where it's colonizing and it's showing you where the water is.
So if you have a wet environment in one corner, but the other side's dry, the mold doesn't just get up and start creeping around and come over here. It's only going to stay where water is. Mold is also close to humans. We also colonized near water. During the colonial times, all our towns and villages were built near water because nobody wanted to walk 20 miles to get some water. So that's what we did. Also, mold thrives between 68 degrees and 86 degrees. That's when we're at our best as humans too.
between 68 and 86 where that's our most comfortable. We don't, you we won't dive, it gets a little colder and then we won't dive, it gets a little hotter, but the colder it gets, we'll contract a little bit. And when the hotter it gets, we get a little more lethargic, but the same with mold. So basically that's what happens. So it gets into your house just by, because air can get into your house. And then it takes on its whole life. If it finds moisture. So can we go back to the black, the mold poop? Yeah.
Now, I'm only thinking don't let poo be a problem for you from one of our septic we had to guest on for septic, so that's all I can think of, which that's a catchy line, right? So if I see black on sheetrock, which means that mold probably is already behind the wall and coming. Well, it depends. It depends. If you see it on this in the room side of the sheetrock, chances are it's...
It didn't come through the sheetrock because the sheetrock would have to be severely damaged for that mold to get through it. ⁓ You know, it had to eat all the way through it. So if it's still the sheetrock is still firm and nothing really wrong with it, it's probably in the surface from this side. Okay. You usually find this around with people who have plants in corners. You find this in ⁓ because air can't get back there plus they're watering it plus the plant is releasing, you know, stuff. So.
When you have a bunch of stuff stuffed in a corner and there's not enough airflow, you might start seeing it there. ⁓ Closets are another one. People who pack closets full of stuff. then warm, humid air gets back there, too. And then it just sits there. There's nothing to ventilate it. To ventilate it. Yeah. So air movement is energy. And that's what evaporates water. So if there's moisture on your wall. The reason why mold doesn't really grow
in your house when you're on your walls, your walls aren't all speckled up, is because you keep moving in the house. You're moving the air. Every time you move, you make this wave of air. And that little breeze is enough to keep walls dry. You open and close doors. You're constantly moving air. Now, in your same house, if you were to lock it up and no human can go in there for one year, ⁓ you come back and you're gonna walk into your house, it's gonna smell musty, and you might actually start seeing speckles and mold and stuff in the house because...
all that humid air just sits there and the house never ventilated. The reason why our houses stand is because of human intervention. Nature eventually take over a house if it's abandoned, nature's taking it back and it starts with mold, then spiders, then animals that feed on spiders. So I was waiting spiders, was waiting for you snakes. it's more common to grow in an attic.
Only because again, when's the last time you've been in your attic? Nobody hangs out in their attic. And the problem with attics is it's usually a very, very simple fix. It's usually, what we find is probably 90 % of the time it's the soft events are all plugged up with insulation because people put insulation too far into the vents. Well, those vents are there for a reason. They're designed to pull air in up the soffit event and then it rides up the backside of the decking, which is
We call it soffit channels, a space between each roof truss. So it'll run up there and then expel out a ridge. That's energy, that's movement, that's moving the air, and that just dries off the decking. So if you take out the moisture, dry it off, mold won't grow on it. The same too, you know, through my career where a homeowner puts in a bathroom exhaust fan, but doesn't vent it out to the soffit. just blows in and that creates mold. Of course. Yeah, you're just adding moisture from a hot, steamy shower. You're just adding that moisture up there too.
And they don't think of that. They're thinking, no, I'm getting all the moisture out of the bathroom to prevent mold. You're just pumping it into the attic. Luckily, you don't share the same air as the attic. And you don't think about it. Because like I said, when does anybody ever go hang out in their attic? Never, really. So what ends up happening is the day they decide to list the house and then one of your clients wants to buy the house, they have a home inspection done. And that's when it's found. they're like, oh my god, I never knew. And it's probably true. You didn't know. Yeah, we do.
we do ask our clients that are getting ready to list to do a pre-home inspection. So there's no surprises. And they're in control. That's the huge part. If your sellers do a pre-inspection and they have the attic checked and all that stuff, they're in control because what happens is, as you know, it becomes this bidding war. you'll get the buyers... ⁓
contractor will have it like really really high and then the sellers will you know it's I'd rather just have it taken care of it at beginning and they're completely in control the whole time they control the price of it and doesn't get out of hand right and when you're doing the work your company gives a warranty correct right which is always good so the buyer is confident that it's been fixed correctly right I put a that does see my thing with warranties first of all I'm you know I believe that
You should never have to use your warranty. You want me to do my job and go away and never see me again. That's what you want. I mean, if you're using the warranty, it's because something went wrong. But anyway, I get it. People want some protection, so I get it. And I give a 5-year warranty on my stuff. And there's some people who give 10 years. I've seen a company that gives 30-year warranties. I can assure you nobody's coming back to your house 30 years from now because you won't even remember who they were. They may never be in business.
The longer the warranty is, there's usually more outs in it. And one of the major ones I see is if the relative humidity in an attic, it's above 65%, they can void the warranty. I've seen that several times. And I was thinking about it, why 65%, 65 %? And then I looked it up and that's the average relative humidity of upstate New York for the year is 65 % relative so they built that clause in there too to get out of it. That way they can prove that they know that the relative humidity got it. I'm not saying that that's what they do, but that was a number that...
It was used a lot. ⁓ But my warranty is this. I know that mold has a growth cycle of one year, just like every tree, shrub, plant, your lawn. In December, everything looks dead. The trees all look dead. Lawn's dead. Everything looks dead. It's not. Everything's dormant. ⁓ I give a five-year warranty because ⁓ mold growth has a cycle of one year. And I know in upstate New York, sometimes we have hot summers.
cold summers, wet summers, dry summers, and a combination of summer. It's crazy. So we're gonna see in the five years, we're gonna see a lot of different cycles of mold, of the climate outside. So if nothing happened in the first year, nothing happened in the second year, nothing happened in the third year, I think the problem's over. And again, even my 5-year warranty isn't even set in stone.
I mean, I'm going to stand behind my work. And you do. Yeah, we know that. Yeah. Because, I mean, we're dealing with people. My thought on a good company isn't that, you know, isn't so much as what they do right, it's what they do when things go wrong. That's a good point. So that's, know, if a company is good, they're going to do, how do they react? They must react well when things go bad. Right. You know, and they stand up and own things and, you know, don't deflect and don't blame. Yeah. I've even done things where as
⁓ We've given suggestions for homeowners that you have to have... One of the crazy things is especially through Scotia, Glenville, all down through Schenectady area, post-war houses, all those houses down there are all built Cape style. There's just tons of Cape style houses down there. Well, Cape style houses were never designed to have the upstairs finished and they don't have soffit vents my God, that's a...
Huge attic space and you can make two bedrooms out of it. So everybody does it they finish it off What they did was they put all this insulation up against the decking and then they build the sheetrock up and they build their rooms and all that stuff and then They have these knee walls and then you can see all along the knee walls that they got moldy and everything like that There's no real way discernible way to Ventilate the attic space because you have living space over that needs to be insulated so and there are no soffit vents so
And even putting in gable power vents and all that stuff might not work because all the trusses go the wrong way and the airflow isn't going to hit everything. Interesting. Right. I didn't know that. OK. So what we've done, getting back to my warranty, what we've done is we'll let people know this is that you're to have to find a roofer or a qualified roofer or somebody, a building engineer, to figure out the best way to add ventilation to a Cape style house. I already know there is no way. I paid for all 4 years of my college.
through doing roofing work for my father's construction company. That's what I did. I built roofs, I built all of that stuff. And I know in capes there are no soffits, so you can't get soffit venting. Gable vents and gable fans shoot straight across perpendicular to all the roof trusses that will work as air dams. all the gable vents do, all the gable fans do, power gable fans, gable fans with humidistat control, all of those are for temperature control only in an attic. They will not add
Airflow across the decking because they force force air perpendicular to the roof trusses that will act as air dams So what do you do? Like how do you fix that? well the way the the proper way to insulate an attic in a Cape house What should have been done when before all these rooms were built which wasn't possible is spray foam the the decking before you build the rooms Once you spray foam the decking you've encased the wood
There's a chemical reaction when you spray foam. It's part A and part B. And when they hit each other, it causes this chemical reaction that's really, really hot, and it makes the foam expand. Right. And it bonds to the wood. So when we spray foam the attic decking for your insulation, that wood will never, ever, ever see the light of day ever again unless someday somebody tore the house down and chiseled it off. So it's never going to get moisture behind it. It's never going to get...
Air flow behind it, you strip the wood of oxygen, you strip the wood of moisture, so nothing can live on it. But unfortunately, they didn't have that available at post-war, so this is what people did, they just put fiberglass insulation. It was just pillowy and fluffy, and air can get behind this. We had a lady in Albany, her and her husband built their dream house, and they had this massive vaulted ceiling. I mean the thing it went on forever. It was just a huge, massive, ⁓ great room.
And they had a mold issue in there, up in the part that you can reach. And when I went there, I told her, I said, yeah, it runs all the way down. And she goes, so how do we get rid of that? I said, well, you can't on a vaulted ceiling because it's a closed system. I said, what you have to do is you have to take down all this sheetrock and get rid of all that insulation. You got to clean all the mold off, spray foam it, and then put it back up. And she did. They did it and everything like that. But she was very happy. Her and her husband. ⁓
they were the builders actually too. They did this and she goes, it was funny story, she goes, I swear to God, I think I told him that back when we built this. But I was like, I don't know. You're like, yeah, I'm not touching that one. But I mean, they're a well-to-do family and I know that, so it wasn't a big issue for them, but I can understand when you have a middle income or a lower income, smaller Cape house and people, money's tight, it's hard to do that. It's hard, right. So we basically just clean it up.
And then I put in the suggestion that either, you you're going to have to remove all these rooms and spray foam it. I give, I give a, a condition of my warranty. I will still cover it. So they called me in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven years, whatever. I'm still going to go back and get rid of the new mold that came back. But then that's it. And then I'm going to say, look, we've talked about this and you still haven't done it. So, I mean, I can't come back every year for free and do mold, you know, and they understand that. So, but I mean, we've had.
We had to do that like three or four times last year for, we requested that. For different clients? Yeah, for people that we suggested they needed to do. Oh, one was this was a three story house and I'm not allowed to go up three stories because of insurance purposes. I can't be on a roof because I don't have roofers insurance. So I'm not allowed to put my guys up there or anything like that.
The only thing we can do is clear the soffit vents from the inside, but when we did that, the entire soffit vent was all covered in wood fascia. So we told them, you're to have to find a siding, ⁓ roofing or siding contractor, have them come. It's not that hard. We're just not allowed to put guys up on ladders three stories high. We're not equipped for that. And they said, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And you just pull down the wood soffit venting, open it all up, and then put fully perforated vent covers over that so no animals can get in there. And you'd be set. that's great. No problem.
Well, they called me and said that, you know, the mold came back. I went and I did it. They never took care of it. I said, you know, this I'll take care of the mold. And we did take care of the mold and said, this has to be done. did ⁓ they listen that time? I think, I think they did, but they haven't called back. So who knows? But again, it's like, but they get it. They understand at some point yet. This is your responsibility too. right. I can't come and just keep doing mold for you for free every year. You know, it's like.. You can't?
So Jim, let's talk about what are some of the health effects if you're exposed like long term to mold. I mean, if it's. Great, great question. It's different for everybody. Typically what you're growing in a house, there's mold that could actually give you internal infections. It's just, you know, they can do neurological damage to you, respiratory issues, but those are rare in a house. You're going to get mostly either aspergillus, penicillium, cladosporium.
Sometimes stachybiotras, those are the most common ones. And what they're gonna mostly do is give you itchy, watery eyes or hay fever symptoms. It's make you stuffy or anything like that. ⁓ It can induce asthma in somebody who doesn't have asthma or severely aggravate an asthmatic. ⁓ But as far as it shutting your organs down or making you go crazy or losing your mind, very, very rare. It's not impossible, but it's extremely difficult to grow a toxic mold in your house that's going to...
do severe damage. And then it just affects each person differently. Even between mother and child, because you're allergic to something, it doesn't mean your kid is, vice versa. I'm one of 10 children. I'm the only one in my family that's allergic to penicillin. Nobody else is, penicillin's a mold. Nobody else in my family is, but for some reason I am. Interesting. I've learned two interesting things about it. Actually three. Roofing, cook, sorry, we're digressing, right? And now...
⁓ One of ten. Yeah, come from an Italian family, Yeah, I get that. But, ⁓ so yeah, I mean, science and medicine cannot agree ⁓ what mold does to each person. Like, they can't say, this mold will give you cancer, because maybe you, but not everybody, and maybe not at all, it's just, microbiology is just scratching the surface of how...
how many species of mold there are, their effects, they're trying to figure all this stuff out. ⁓ It's a huge field, they're making really good gains in it, but this is something that's gonna take probably decades to figure out all this stuff, because there's good mold. ⁓ Wine, comes from mold bread, ⁓ alcohol, I mean, cheese, it's all done with mold, and penicillin is a lifesaver for people, and then of course there's bad molds. So,
Yeah, so it just affects everybody differently. ⁓ I wouldn't run around with your hair on fire and panic if you found some mold in your house and you'd start, Oh my God, just calm down. It can be, yeah, remediated. easy, yeah, a lot of times it's really easy. So if you have mold in the attic, and it goes untreated, you lived in the house for 30 years, you decide to sell it you find mold in the attic.
And there was no health issues, no stuffiness, asthma, nothing. Is that because it's like in the attic, there's nowhere really to go into the living area? It's because you really don't hang out in the attic and you don't share the air up there. Plus there's air coming in from different cracks and crevices in the attic. I always tell people, it's like if your neighbor was a smoker and they're right next to you and they smoke in their house and they smoke in their house, it doesn't mean you do. You're not breathing that air with them. it's basically that's why.
But it is unsightly, it can cause structural damage. So I mean, the longer it goes, that's what mold does is it breaks things down. It takes a really, really long time for mold to break through plywood and all that stuff, but it can happen. So yeah, I grew up in a 250 year old colonial farmhouse. I guarantee you there was mold in the attic because it's a 250 year old colonial farmhouse.
We didn't have any, we weren't sicker than anybody else, and nobody had any really health issues and anything else like that. Knock on wood. yeah. Basements are more dangerous because you're in and out more storage, And also most furnaces are in the basement. And that's where it's pulling the air to heat your house. And that's pulling it out of the basement. So that's where you gotta be careful. Yeah, we're running our dehumidifier 24 seven. We stopped for a little bit. And I'm like, I think we have mold. And then I saw some little.
Yeah, so I was like, we gotta get that dehumidifier back on. So it's been, yeah, nonstop. How can a homeowner, just an everyday person, how can you identify if you have mold in the home? You go in the basement. Yeah, you're gonna smell stuff. You know what mustiness smells like. You've been in an old, old church. You've been in your basement. It smells musty. You're gonna smell it. That's your first clue. And what those are are mycotoxins that are released from the mold spores, because they're living things. and they
reproduce so that they release these mycotoxins that are, that's what you're smelling. So you're gonna smell it first and when you smell it first then you're gonna go look for it. In a basement, the other thing too you wanna look for is cobwebs. As I was telling you, spiders instinctively follow mold. They go where it's damp and wet, they smell the mold, they go there too because they gotta spin their web and they gotta drink. So they're gonna get some humidity and dew on their web and they can drink.
So that's, if you start seeing a ton of cobwebs in your basement, you have a moisture problem in your basement. So ⁓ that's a good tell. So are you looking up on the ceiling, on the wood? I mean, some of it, could be white, it could be... Yeah, it could be all sorts of different things. Careful with the yellow. Yellow is usually pollen, and it's a powdery thing. And pollen gets in there and gets snagged on wood. But yeah, for the most part, you're gonna see it's black. ⁓
Again, you can see green pink and those and then you got you got to really address that. But yeah, you just check out your if you want take a nice flashlight and just go up and down your trusses if they're all exposed. Look at it. You see stuff that looks out of the ordinary. It looks you know, moldy. That's called yeah, yeah, information is free. And my inspections are free. I can come in and take a look at it and say, yeah, you're gonna need to get this taken care of or you know what, it's just a small little bit there you can
clean it up yourself if you wanted to. right. So let me ask a quick question. ⁓ Before the house is on the market, right, you do a pre-inspection to come in, you have mold. Do you still have to have the certified mold appraiser come in and say, yes, you have mold and then have to have it cleared? We are, the contractors are required to. It has nothing to do with the homeowner or the realtor or the buyer of the house. It has to do with the contractors that are remediating mold.
It is highly illegal for us to do a mold remediation without a mold assessment. Okay. No matter what. That's a big no-no. ⁓ basically the mold assessor has to come in. Regardless. Right. If the homeowner is going to do it themselves, they don't need anybody. You don't need a mold assessment. ⁓ don't need a mold. A homeowner can remove their own asbestos if they want. It's kind of foolish, but they can. Right. You're allowed to do whatever you want in your house, but...
Me, the reason why we need it is because you guys have, the homeowner has to be protected from unscrupulous contractors. That, you know, they got, you And it happens. Right. So they got to know that we're following a plan, it's going to be inspected. And the mold assessor always advocates for the homeowner. Right. Because that's who they're protecting. Right. Make sure it's some right. So Jim, ⁓ I know we've talked a lot about mold. Tell us what else does your company offer? I know you guys do a lot.
Well, yeah, we're a restoration company. a full restoration company. We do water, fire, smoke, mold. We do trauma scene cleanups. we've done, we just started with beginning of this year with, excuse me, last year, but with a asbestos abatement, which we're really, really booming on that. Lead paint abatement. My director of operation wants us get into radon abatement because we're getting a ton of calls from.
I mean, called you that a couple years ago and you said you were not in that yet. Not yet, because we're a young company. We're only five years old. I've done this for 12 years prior to this, but we wanted to make sure we're doing everything right first. then we got mold down. We know what we're doing. We're working on asbestos. So far, we're batting 1,000 with that. So it's doing really well. So the next step would probably be radon, and we'll be doing that as well. Good. Good. Let us know when that happens. Absolutely.
So Jim, is there anything else that you, I know we didn't even really scratch the surface. I have a whole bunch of more questions. ⁓ Is there anything else that our viewership and our listeners should know? Get estimates. Don't believe the first thing you hear. I mean, we have a lot of good contractors that do mold remediation, but just like any profession, there's some real schmucks and there's people out there looking to get over on people. So get estimates.
talk to people, ⁓ I always tell people the best friend you can ever make in any town is a realtor because you guys have already weeded through schmucks. guys know who your people are. know who the good electricians are and everything else. You know who the mold guys are. You know who the septic people are. You know who the roofing You've built a team. So I always tell people call a real estate agent and say, listen.
What do you know? Who should I talk to about mold? Because they've already vetted And it's our reputation too, you know, on the line. we're referring someone, and we know you're on our preferred vendor list, then that's why you're here with us today. Thank you. I appreciate that. So Jim, could you just tell the viewers how, you know, they can get a hold of you and your company? Sure. We're Excelsior Restoration Services. You can reach us at 518-288-3699. You can go online. You can go to our website at ExcelsiorRestoration.com.
you can, we have a link there that you can just ⁓ fill out if you want some information or if you want an estimate, you can do it that way. And basically that's how you find us. Or call us. Or get your right to Jim. All right. Well, wonderful, Jim. I appreciate you coming in and taking your time. I know you're busy in the field. ⁓ Thank you for our listeners for another episode of Real Talk. It's Sterling Real Estate Group. And we will also be sure to put Jim's contact information in our show notes.
Thank you.