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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
I think it's the biggest gap between what you and I as senior designers recommend to entry level designers. Like, they don't know what they're good at. Maybe they aren't really good yet. You know, they still have to learn on the job and and figure things out.
Tyler:Yeah. I think the pragmatic, like, sentence might be just learn to suffer for a bit and Yeah. Eat eat shit for a bit and then till you figure it out. That's part of that's part of it as well. That's like that's like being a plumber intern.
Tyler:Like, you just you literally And you're officially live.
Nick:We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. Alright. So we got a question from our audience, someone who's struggling, and I thought this would be a good moment to see if we can help them.
Nick:Let's do it. Alright. For it. So this person is not sure how much or if at all he should use AI. You know, at one point, he's like, I just enjoy doing the actual work myself because that's how I learn.
Nick:That's how I get better. That's how I find solutions. But at the same time, it also looks like I have to use AI like everyone else just to be considered to get a job. So he's struggling there. Should he keep to his morals, or should he, you know, quote, unquote, give in and just do what everyone else is doing just for the odds better odds of having a job.
Nick:This person just graduated, is currently without a job, and is entering that level of desperation of I need something just to survive.
Tyler:That's a fair one. Yeah. For first first question there, at least not here, obviously, what I would ask, like, what is the resistance to using AI at all? Like, in there, it seems like the the love of the craft is there. It's like the fundamentals doing, like, the things by hand.
Tyler:Like, there's a love and passion for that, but there's you can still do those things leveraging AI. Like, the whole the whole purpose is to it's not like a hammer that sees a nail, but it's like using tools. It's a tool at the end of day. So, like, using the tool when it's when it's required. It's not for everything because it helps you explore or or get things done quicker.
Tyler:It doesn't replace your entire process. I'd start with there. Like, did I'd maybe question what the hesitancy is and then under and then try to understand what are the things it's useful for and what are the things that you love and then figuring it out from there. Because this goes back to a point in a previous episode where I was talking to a developer who AI has removed the challenge of figuring things out by hand versus now AI can code anything. The the challenge has been removed.
Tyler:So I think it there's a there's an overlap probably with those two people and kind of the sentiment or that AI is gonna bring to their day to day.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, that's that's probably true. Like, if you really are all about, you know, the the doing part, you know, I just enjoy the puzzle of layout and UI and all that stuff. You know? That's perhaps more fun for this person compared to just trying to explain something visual in text.
Nick:So, yeah, I mean, I I can see that. You know? I don't know about you. I like I I always think, like, you are more about strategy and ROI and more the the the important things floating around the the design craft. So what I'm thinking when when listening to you, correct me if I'm wrong, but I myself, I really enjoy just literally the drawing and the the artsy stuff almost.
Nick:So Yep. So, yeah, I I can relate to that person. What I also noticed, I think, is that there's just a big gap to between the things how people talk about something and how people act on something. I think there's a big difference. Like, I noticed within myself when I write something for social media, I don't want to, but I automatically start to think about what should my first sentence be.
Nick:Because if the first sentence sucks, nobody's going to read the rest. But if I would explain the same thing to a friend, I wouldn't think about it for a sentence. I would just start talking. You know? So there's always a filter between the things you're thinking and how things really are on the job and how you present it.
Nick:So I think this person thinks that what you see on LinkedIn is the actual deal, like, how things really are. And I think you and I, we both know that things are really different on the job, on the actual job compared to Yep. You know, shiny social media. So that's advice. My main advice is to, you know, to to to not take it too seriously.
Nick:You know, use use the post you see online for inspiration, but don't consider it to be the absolute truth.
Tyler:Yeah. Because it is I think it's I think it's different on the job. Like, there yes. There is an overcorrection of, like, there's very big pressure to to leverage AI, but, like, the the pressure is just about experimentation. Like, there's this new tool.
Tyler:Let's see what works, what doesn't work. Let's break it and then and actually use it properly. The pendulum will swing back, and then we'll have a we'll have a better grasp of, like, what it's used for. But, like, he is looking like it sounds like he's looking he's on the job search, and employers or future employers are looking for answers to questions like, how do you leverage AI during your process? That just sounds like, are you they're looking for people who are, like, trying to increase efficiency.
Tyler:So, like, are you leveraging tools that get quicker output while maintaining the the right amount of quality? So, like, designer of the position, like, it's all about quality and aesthetics and making sure that the experience of whatever you're creating is on point. The AI question, it's just about velocity. How can we get quicker to that final output? Mhmm.
Tyler:Yep. So it's just about I think my advice would be to look at your current process and then experiment with the different tools just so that you have answers to that question. I think that's number one. How you do things on the job, I think, another conversation. As long as you get the output, I think it's fine.
Tyler:It's I think that's just like a a question of the day. How do you use AI? It's like a filter Yep. Along with, like, what is your greatest weakness? It's just another question you have to have another answer for.
Tyler:I would I would take it from that lens. I wouldn't take it too serious, but I would do the research that's necessary to kind of
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:How does it map to your current process? You can still design things as as you wish because you because you have a passion for this specific aesthetic part, don't lose that because that's gonna show in your day to day work.
Nick:Yeah. That's true. I think, you know, you're you're replying to my, you know, do not take it too serious bit. Think maybe the more nuanced version of what I tried to say was also about, like, don't take it too serious, but be curious about it. Because they're just like they are not 100% right, they're also not 100% wrong.
Nick:Like, there's always something there. You know? So you have to have your radar spinning. You should see like, hey. This thing this person has said, I've seen it 100 times now this month.
Nick:So that probably means that there's something to it. I'm I'm going to explore a bit. You know? Yeah. So I think that's a little bit of the the correction I have to put in.
Nick:So I think you're right there. I also think that having you know, you using the minimal level of AI is a requirement these days. Like, I don't think and this comes from someone who is very much against vibe coding and being AI only and all that kind of stuff that I so this is something you should you should take seriously. There there's a minimal level of AI usage you just need, you cannot do without today?
Tyler:Yeah. And and there's, like, there's answers to those questions or ways to use AI that doesn't affect your craft as well. Like, to answer one of those questions, like, AI could be your a transit whether you use Loom or granola, like, taking recordings of of different sessions and then taking that data and then aggregating it against, like, multiple sessions so that you have you're automating, like, the note taking process. That's AI even though and it's not touching your craft. Doing research and analysis, that's another piece, not touching your craft.
Tyler:There's a there's all these things that are AI related that don't touch the pixel part that you can still speak to and still learn to kinda speed up your process while maintaining the high level of, like, high touch to, like, what I imagine he what he loves.
Nick:Yeah. That's true. I mean, it just happened this week, me and one of my projects where we were just like like in the previous episode, you know, I'm still working on pricing pages, and this time we went in in app. So trial's over. You click Yeah.
Nick:Upgrade, and then you have a different kind of pricing page compared to a pricing page on a marketing website. You know, the goal is different. Marketing website, person is more exploring. Is this for me? Yes or no?
Nick:Then in app, the intent is there. I want to subscribe. I want to figure out which of the options is right for me. So that's different. The AI usage I had was to get the current version of the pricing in app pricing page into Figma, where just just quite recently even, would need to redraw it from hand, like, manually.
Nick:Yes. And now I get a, you know, not the good version, but I get something with one of the the many plugins that can choose from in Figma in seconds. And then it's a matter of cleaning it a bit cleaning it up and then starting to iterate from there. But the iterations were all done by hand by me in a very short time, and we had a live session with stakeholders and developers and and, you know, different kinds of people. We had some feedback.
Nick:We were all happy, and it's done, you know, all within a week. So there's some AI there just to take away the annoying bits, but the things you, you know, our listener asking this question, the things you really enjoy, I had a great time doing all of that by hand. And this is in an AI first company. They are very, like, pro AI. Nobody complained about, you know, this took a long time.
Nick:This should be way quicker. You know, it wasn't even, like, your your typical AI arguments for why you should use it. None of it was even raised. So there's still a lot of fun things to do, you know, in this this day and age of AI. But even I used AI here just to have
Tyler:a That's a big
Nick:quick start.
Tyler:Big one. That's, like Yeah. That brings me back to memory lane where you would like, the the typical process used to be take a screenshot of the app. Because that's the use case where you're jumping in. There's no maybe there's no Figma existing Figma files.
Tyler:It's a legacy part of the app that you have to kind of update, but you have to start from zero. Mhmm. Back in the day, it was taking a screenshot, bringing it into Photoshop, and then layering on the additions.
Nick:Yes. So
Tyler:you'd have this flat image with some UI elements, which is a complete mess. But this is like imagine we had this back in the day. That's that's a big win. Mhmm. But to your point, you're still staying you're getting quicker to the the fun part.
Tyler:And the the fun part is not recreating a screen that already exists.
Nick:Yeah. Well, I mean, that I I think that's the most important thing to remember is that all AI is doing here is taking away the annoying things that you Yeah. I imagine you don't like like, he says, I want to sit in front of code or design tool and bang my head against the wall to solve an issue. That's literally what he's saying. I'm I'm reading it now.
Nick:Yep. He gets to that part way quicker. Like, I don't think recreating a thing that already exists fits for what he's saying there. Like, I probably think he likes the thing after that phase. So, yeah, I mean, use AI to do it.
Nick:You're way quicker.
Tyler:Yeah. Like, that's be like, so, like, I think our advice there is just, like, they're we're hearing a lot of hesitation, and then we're suggesting a little bit more exploration. Because there's there's there's AI, the umbrella, and it's not AI does everything. It just does it does the annoying part. That's the that was the point.
Tyler:Let's let's automate or just, like, take away these annoying bits so we can focus on the pieces that are important to you.
Nick:Yeah. True. Yeah. And then you also have, of course, transcription of the meeting where a day later, I'm like, did we agree on this part or not? I'm not sure.
Nick:You know, let's ask Granola. Like, did we discuss this? Yes. Oh, okay. Now I remember.
Nick:Back to work. You know? So even without that use of AI, you would have to find the colleague from that meeting.
Tyler:Yes.
Nick:You know, see if he's in, see if he's he's not in a meeting where you have to wait, you know, send a message, hope that they remember, you know, not a guarantee. You know, so that is again, there's a lot of time lost where you could also be in your design tool. And now it's just, like, two sentences in an app away, and you have your answer, and you can continue. Yeah. So I'm leaning towards do AI while keeping your moral standpoint because I really think you can do both.
Tyler:I think you can. It's like you exactly. I think you do exactly both. There's no there's no reason why you can't. Like, I I hate taking notes, so that's one example.
Tyler:And also the notes are me much better than my chicken scratch that I'm gonna be be writing on my paper. And I'm gonna I'm gonna be half I'm gonna be half paying attention because I'm trying to take notes while trying to listen to the Sam. It's like juggling and trying to pat your head at this head at the same time. It's not ideal. And I have all the notes.
Tyler:And also, use that transcript to feed into I can structure it properly. I can bring it into I bring it to Claude. Here's context. Here's what we're gonna build today. Here's like, here's a round of feedback that I have I pulled from granola.
Tyler:Let's work on these work on these points. Create me a list of that of act of, like, things I need to complete today. Let's go one
Nick:Yeah. That yeah. I mean, I think you and I, we both do the same thing where a full transcript can be an attachment in a prompt.
Tyler:Yeah. On the day on the daily. Multiple meetings here. I have, like, just go, okay. What task am I working on?
Tyler:Cool. Let me bring in the context. I have, like, all my meetings set up. Like, we talked about this, this, and we bring that in. I'll bring in GitHub so I understand the code, like like, the GitHub connector for Cloud, and then let's go.
Tyler:I have it's all about context. And then the the decision is in your hand on how to design it properly.
Nick:Mhmm. It's just Mhmm.
Tyler:Feeding. It's just business context.
Nick:Yeah. Before we continue, if you're feeling stuck in your design career or if you feel like you're doing solid work while no one really notices, we've got a bunch of extra stuff on our website.
Tyler:We're building a community for product designers to actually learn, grow, and get hired, not just scroll and collect more inspiration.
Nick:There's also articles, checklists, and courses.
Tyler:All based on real world experience from both of us. No fluff, just what actually works.
Nick:Check out designtablepodcast.com. The link is in the description. I think so. Could you consider yourself a successful designer?
Tyler:I'd say so. Yeah.
Nick:Because I I Nope. And and do you are are you having fun on the job?
Tyler:Yeah. Yeah. I have I'm having a lot of fun. Yeah. Like, I guess I can put it through the lens of, like, today's episode.
Tyler:Yeah. Mhmm. I'm having a lot of fun. If we're talking about, like, has AI increased or decreased my happiness? Maybe increased just because I get exposure to different things.
Tyler:Historically, just been working in within like a silo and now kind of breaking on and having more control of where the ability to wear multiple hats just because the AI tools have facilitated that. Like, historically, you'd have to work at a small startup to to have that experience. But now even in bigger companies, you can kind of work beyond your your design vertical and help other people, and these tools help that. So I can go into copywriting because I could fix my my spelling mistakes. I can I can work on strategy because I have the tools to to to bridge the gap within, like, the fund like, the product manager fundamentals that I'm missing?
Tyler:Yeah. I'm able to be more useful. And then I'm able to bring things to life, which is like that for me is like brings me back to, like, when I used to, like, code and design. Bring putting something to production is like, that gives me so much joy, and I'm able to do that on the daily now. Mhmm.
Nick:Well, that's great. You know, reason I'm asking is because I can answer yes, I think, to both questions also. I consider myself quite successful, and I'm also enjoying my work. But the interesting thing is that you and I, we work in different ways, you know, in in terms of AI usage Mhmm. Different situation, you know, in house, freelance.
Nick:Also, you know, you working in a larger company. I work mostly with small companies. Like, there's a Mhmm. You know, everything is kinda different. There's overlap, but it's really different.
Nick:So I think that's also proof of how you can still find your own way. You know? So if we would both listen to, like, social media posts where our asker question asker is clearly influenced by, we would be doing the same thing. But we have found success in our own ways, and I hope that's motivating for people listening. Like, you don't have to follow what someone else is saying per se.
Nick:Like, you can find your own way. It will probably work out.
Tyler:Yeah. Like because at the end of the day, the strategy is, like, you've picked a profession that's The umbrella is design, and there's so many nuances and way to go and to be useful. So it's about, like for me, the strategy is, what are you really good at and what do you really love doing? And see if you can package that as something that you bring with yourself to a company or to to a to a start up. And then you get known for doing that thing.
Tyler:And that thing obviously has to deliver value, but, like, that could be the thing you continue to do. You don't have to take on you don't you you don't have to always take on tasks that are outside of your comfort zone. Yeah. Well, less comfort zone are just, like, things that you love doing. It's like if the happy you are doing your work, the better your work is.
Tyler:So, like, that's how you I I think I'd try to frame it. I do that today. It's like, I'm really good and passionate about specific things like the business side, so that's I get more tasks doing that. Like Yeah. That's that's how I help.
Nick:I think it takes a while before you know what you're really good at and what you really enjoy doing. I think it's the biggest gap between what you and I as senior designers recommend to entry level designers. Like, they don't know what they're good at. Maybe they aren't really good yet. You know, they still have to learn on the job and and figure things out.
Tyler:Yeah. I think the pragmatic, like, sentence might be just learn to suffer for a bit and eat eat shit for a bit and then till you figure it out. That's part of Yeah. That's part of it as well. That's like that's like being a plumber intern.
Tyler:Like, you just you literally eat shit. But, like like, you have to, like, taste different things and then try and fail, try and fail Yeah. Until you are good enough Yeah. To be to be seen with, like, at a certain level to be it's basically you can carve your path. But, like like anything, you at the beginning of your career, you're just learning each it and then eventually.
Tyler:Like, you'd like that's part that's part of your twenties. It's just like experimenting, learning things, and then then you find your your light or your guiding force.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my first job, I just said yes to the first company that wanted to have me. You know? There was no strategy there.
Nick:No, you know, doing more often things I'm good at because I wasn't good at anything, You know, I'm just fresh out of school. So they offered me a job. I was just like, yep. Okay. Let's start.
Nick:Let's do it. You know? It only took many years before I realized, like, wait a minute. I want to work independently. You know?
Nick:Mhmm. So, I mean, I I I can see that challenge. You know, I I more and more understand the question here is, you know, I'm desperate. I have no job. I just want a job.
Nick:You know, it doesn't really matter as long as it's a design job. So if I see everyone talking about the way I should be using AI, maybe I just should. And, you know, maybe so far our answers have been quite dreamy. You know, we're very well meant and helpful. Mhmm.
Nick:But if this person is desperate, you know, running out of money, I think it's okay. Well, may maybe I'm just repeating what you're saying. The the eat shit, you know, yeah.
Tyler:I think that's important. I I like I wouldn't skip past it.
Nick:Which is because you learn the most when things are bad. Is that is that what you're saying? Or
Tyler:I think so. I think it's like your it feeds the rest of your journey if you're if doesn't have to be bad, but, like, the beginning stages, like, there's growing pains. There's things that suck that you have to do anyways. Whether that's getting caught I remember when I was saving for the graphic design web development course.
Nick:Mhmm. I
Tyler:had to find a job to pay for it. And the first one I I landed on, I was desperate to find anything, was went to one of those we'll find you a job kind of things, more like manual labor stuff. And Yeah. It was literally you go in, the requirement was steel toed boots, construction boots, and then they're gonna find they're gonna ship you off in the back of a van literally and then ship you off at a location and you would do work. Like, one of the so I went in one day, had my boot to say, cool.
Tyler:Just wait thirty minutes. We're gonna put you and then I was packed into the back of a van and I was sent to a Pepsi factory. And I had to move crates from one end of the of the warehouse to the other house. Like, that was the job. I don't think I enjoyed a stitch or a minute of it, but it it was a a piece in the journey to help me save for the the the program or the course that I ended up took to bring to as which was the step in the journey to kinda get me here where I am today.
Nick:Yeah. That's impressive. That's that's really cool. You know, my my first job was being a mail delivery guy. What do you say?
Nick:A postman? Is that what you say?
Tyler:Postman.
Nick:Postman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:That that's what I did. And, you know, it doesn't sound as tough as what you're doing in a factory. I would I remember having a an area of the city that actually was done on a scooter, but I didn't have the license to drive it back in the day. So I was on the bike, and then in the end, they discovered, maybe this route is a bit too large for a scooter. So let's do it by car next.
Nick:And I was there on my bike with massive bags full of letters on you know, at the back of my bike just, you know, slaving away, to get everything there on time. So, yeah, I I can relate to that more or less. You know? Again, not a factory, but Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:And now you look back at it. Yeah. Yeah. You look back at it now almost nostalgically, like, oh, you remember those days? You know?
Nick:But I I wouldn't want to do it again.
Tyler:Well, of course not. But, like, life is a life is a collection of stories. That's what makes it interesting. That's why, like, it's fun to hang out with with with new people and network, and these are the stories that you tell. They're not fun parts, but, like, they're they're anecdotes that that are fun parts to share about, like, your your journey to where you are today.
Tyler:And everyone's is everyone is different.
Nick:Mhmm. That's true. That's true. You know, I I think I read a book on with a story on Darwin and I think Benjamin Franklin. So two stories about, like, famous people.
Nick:And I think they both they mimicked their surroundings just to be accepted. And then once they got in, they started doing their own thing. You know? So I think one of them didn't get any any intel, any info because he didn't drink, and then all his colleagues did drink. So he was like the the strange nondrinking guy.
Nick:Yeah. You know? And then once he started he gave in, you know, so he let go of his morals, started drinking, and then he became one of the guys, you know, and then he started to get, like, all the gossip and inside info, and that really helped him get, you know, unstuck and do more things. I mean, if they're if they're doing it, if they did it, you know, it's okay for you to also let go of your morals and just, you know, use the things recruiters want you to use. Get in get in.
Nick:Solve the desperation. You know, have bread on the table. Be able to afford the things you need to afford, then all the risk is gone for a while, and then you can, you know, readjust and think about your next step.
Tyler:So That's a good analogy.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I like that one. Maybe maybe that's yeah. Well, thank you.
Nick:Yeah. May maybe that's smart because, you know, you can have your morals all you want, but then if you run out of money and live on the street and have no food, I mean, yeah, that's a problem. That's a big problem.
Tyler:Yeah. That's a that's really good advice. I would I think that's a that's a good like, do what you need to do. Drink the alcohol without being becoming an alcoholic, obviously. But so that when you're in the door, you get to figure it out and do what you do eat not do what you want, but, like, you're able to kind of be yourself.
Tyler:Because I think that's important. It's to not lose yourself, but your your personal perspective and, like, how you do things. Yep. That's what makes you unique. If you're a robot and like everyone else, it's hard for you to get seen in in in the crowd of of employees.
Tyler:But if you have a unique perspective and you kinda stand out, that's a good way to play it.
Nick:I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I I know I I noticed within my you know, the people I'm coaching, the mostly junior designers, they have this dream job in mind, and anything they see that isn't that dream job feels like they failed. While I think it's okay to have stepping stones along the way Yeah.
Nick:And even after eleven years on the job now, you know, I still don't have my dream situation. You know, it's getting closer. I'm very happy, and it's way better than it was before. But it's good to remember that you will probably never go to that dream job. You know?
Nick:There will always be something. So it's okay to have a kinda job for a while or longer while Mhmm. To solve different problems that you also have. So, yeah, use a bit of AI. It's okay.
Tyler:That's that's summarize it. Use it. It's fine.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:Well, no. I hope this is useful for for the person. I I hope this person is still listening to our show because I see that this comment was from three months ago. Oh. You know?
Nick:So it took us a while to get there. But I'll I'll tag this person like, hey, we have an episode coming up.
Tyler:Just for you.
Nick:Wait. Just for you. Yeah. Am I right?
Tyler:Alright. That's another episode in the bag.
Nick:Yeah. Great episode. By the way, if you're stuck second guessing your work or trying to figure out your next move, drop a question in the comments or leave a review. We might actually feature you in one of our future episodes.
Tyler:And if you got any value from this episode, hit subscribe wherever you're listening. It helps more than you think.
Nick:You can can find everything else, resources, articles, and more at designtablepodcast.com.
Tyler:Thanks for being here.
Nick:See you