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Andrea Myers is a content contributor at Doctors of Running and is a qualified Orthopedic Specialist and PT. In this episode, Andrea answers your Patron questions all to do with running shoes including: How often should we replace running shoes? Is it okay to run on the road in my trail shoes? How do I know if Super Shoes are appropriate for me? When is it worthwhile to buy insoles? Make sure you check out the Doctors of Running on https://www.doctorsofrunning.com/ Receive Run Smarter Emails Book a FREE Injury chat with Brodie Run Smarter App IOS or Android Podcast Facebook group Run Smarter Course with code 'PODCAST' for 3-day free trial.
Expand your running knowledge, identify running misconceptions and become a faster, healthier, SMARTER runner. Let Brodie Sharpe become your new running guide as he teaches you powerful injury insights from his many years as a physiotherapist while also interviewing the best running gurus in the world. This is ideal for injured runners & runners looking for injury prevention and elevated performance. So, take full advantage by starting at season 1 where Brodie teaches you THE TOP PRINCIPLES TO OVERCOME ANY RUNNING INJURY and let’s begin your run smarter journey.
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On today's episode, a running shoe Q&A with Andrea Myers. Welcome to the Run Smarter podcast. The podcast helping you overcome your current and future running injuries by educating and transforming you into a healthier, stronger, smarter runner. If you're like me, running is life. But more often than not, injuries disrupt this lifestyle. And once you are injured, you're looking for answers. and met with bad advice and conflicting messages circulating the running community. The world shouldn't be like this. You deserve to run injury free and have access to the right information. That's why I've made it my mission, to bring clarity and control to every runner. My name is Brodie Sharp, I am a physiotherapist, a former chronic injury sufferer and your podcast host. I am excited that you have found this podcast and by default, become the Run Smarter Scholar. So let's work together to overcome your injury, restore your confidence, and start spreading the right information back into your running community. So let's begin today's lesson. Okay. Let's get back into it. I have been away for a couple of weeks, but like I said, I've scheduled out all the podcasts so you don't miss an episode or miss a week. Um, but I'm back feeling refreshed and thanks for all your best wishes. And for everyone who's sent me messages saying, hopefully I'm enjoying my break. I did. It was lovely. Just a very nice road trip with my girlfriend to go through, um, the South Australian coastline, see a lot of beaches and then inland a little bit to see some national parks and. Yeah, absolutely lovely back feeling great and not too long until the Christmas break. So don't have to hold out for too long. Today we have Andrea and we had some patrons submit some questions, all that shoes. So Andrea is a contributor, one of the contributors on the doctors of running. Um, they do their podcast and website and blogs and YouTube and all that sort of stuff. All to do, or mainly to do with shoe reviews, but they do other injury stuff as well. Uh, so Andrea is also an orthopedic specialist and a PT. So combines a whole bunch of expertise. Um, originally started with cyclists or her main passion was with cyclists, which she'll explain in a second. Um, but then we get into the patron questions. We talk about how often does Andrea recommend replacing shoes or when are super shoes appropriate? When is it worthwhile to buy insoles? Should we have insoles? All that sort of stuff. We cover all of your questions. So thanks patrons for submitting these questions and let's get into it. Andrea, thanks for jumping on. Thanks for joining me on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me Brody. It's great to be here. I am very excited to hear more about you. Can we start off with learning more about you? Like how your career got started and how it sort of wound up to becoming a part of the Doctors of Running team? Oh, of course. Yeah. PT was actually not my first career choice. I have a bachelor's degree in molecular and cellular biology. I originally intended to go the academic route and do research. And let's see, when I between my freshman and sophomore year of college, I was lucky enough to get an internship at a pharmaceutical company and do cancer research. And while it was incredible to be part of that, it also really showed me that that really wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And it kind of set me off on some soul searching. I knew that I enjoyed what I was studying, but it made me realize I wanted to do something where I worked with people more directly. And physical therapy just seemed more and more like the profession for me. I was lucky enough, I don't know how it is in Australia, but here in the States, before you even apply to PT school, you have to get like a pretty significant number of observation hours at a PT clinic. So I just cold called clinics in my town. And the first one that said that I could come observe, they really turned out to be like really great mentors for me. Like they made me fall in love with the profession. They loved their patients. Their patients loved coming. It was, you know, you've got people in pain, but you've got people laughing at the same time because they're enjoying their treatment and they're enjoying the. you know, human component of healthcare. So they really just sealed the deal for me in terms of, yeah, this is the profession for me. So I got my doctorate in physical therapy at St. Ambrose University. I graduated 16 years ago, which is hard to believe. Time definitely flies. You know, you're a new grad one day and the next day you've been at it for a long time and grad school feels like it was very far away. So when I graduated, I started working in outpatient orthopedic clinics. I've always had a passion for manual therapy, working with athletes. And in addition to my work as a PT, and I can go into this a little bit more later, but I also raced professionally as a cyclist for a period of time. So my career has always kind of naturally attracted cyclists and runners because of my background. So let's see maybe nine or ten years ago I decided to get certified in bike fitting. For those who don't know bike fitting is setting people's positions up on a bike. It's not just for racers. Anyone who likes to ride can benefit from being set up properly with proper seat position, cleat position, handlebars. So I started doing fitting at my outpatient clinic. And then a couple of years later, a friend who owns a bike shop asked me if I would come to your fits there. So I started kind of splitting my time between the clinic and the bike shop. And, you know, the bike fitting business grew very quickly. Like within a couple of months, I was booked out two or three months and adding in days and driving over to the bike shop after working full day in the clinic just to get people in. And you know, it was always a dream of mine to make that work a little more of my full-time work. And last year I actually got an opportunity to do it full-time. So now I have a clinic inside this bike shop. So I do bike fits. I see patients, mostly cyclists and runners, but also just anybody who might need orthopedic PT. And it's just really been a dream being able to work with patients the way that I know is right and not dictated by insurance constraints. Oh, you can only see this person three more times. I'm not sure how it works in Australia, but here people's care is often dictated by their insurance companies, not what they actually need. So now that I work outside of the insurance system, I can just really focus on what the right thing is for my patients, which is amazing. So. Just to get back, since we're here to talk about running and not cycling, I've been running since I was four. My parents were runners. I did the little kiddie one mile races when I was little. So on the track team, cross country team. And when I got to college, I didn't run for my college, but a bunch of my friends and I decided that we wanted to run the Chicago Marathon. And I was a middle distance runner. So. You know, long distances were definitely not my forte. And I really just made all of the amateur mistakes in the marathon, went out too fast, didn't eat enough, like just completely hit the wall. And I'm sure you've had this experience in a race where you're just so miserable and you want it to be over. And as soon as I crossed the finish line, I was thinking, I'm going to do this again and do it better. OK. Wow, not too long at all. No. I thought that maybe a day I would not want to do it again. But yeah, at the finish line, I'm like, I can do this better next time. So signed up for another marathon maybe. I don't remember. Chicago was in the fall. I think the marathon I signed up for was in the spring. And just overtrained, made stupid. I wasn't a newbie, but I was new to marathoning. just stupid training mistakes, overdoing it, not listening to my body, and I ended up with patellofemoral pain. So I went to PT, it wasn't a very good clinic, they kind of handed me off to an aide, and I just did the same exercises day in and day out. And unsurprisingly, I didn't get better. So I started taking spin classes, just to do something to stay in shape. And that's where I met... cycling coach who kind of got me into road cycling and that's how I eventually transitioned into racing and eventually racing at the professional level. So after doing that for several years I kind of started introducing running back into my routine and then I've got a lot of triathlete friends that I run with in the winter time and a couple of years ago I started thinking gosh you know I've built my mileage up enough I could do a marathon if I wanted to, but I wasn't sure if I did. I was so miserable in Chicago, but I just thought, you know what? I'm going to go for it. So I did one last year in 2021. And at Chicago, when I was in college, I ran a 406, walked a lot, had to stop. And last year I ran a 304. So yeah, good improvement, but I think. Those races were 18 years apart. So I'm running another one in December and I'm, you know, excited to see what I can do. So all of that kind of led me to working with the doctors or running crew, reviewing shoes and like you helping to spread good information to runners out there. And that's how I've ended up here. Nice. And for those who aren't familiar with the doctors of running, Uh, they have a podcast, they have a YouTube channel, like website. And if those are familiar with Matt Klein, who's been on this podcast a couple of times discussing shoes and extremely passionate. Um, I think shoe reviews are a big part of, you know, your, um, content and that sort of stuff. So I'll leave the links in the show notes for people to check out there. Um, excellent. I thought it'd be a great idea for an episode to ask the patrons a couple of running questions or shoe questions to be specific because I'm not usually like a shoe guy. I don't know much about brands and types. I, you know, I keep to the same two, three pairs of shoes, um, my entire running career. And you know, people always ask about different types of shoes, the fittings and all that stuff. I don't really know. Can't really advise on specific stuff. So fantastic to have you on here. I've got a couple of questions in from patrons. So Let's dive into question number one. It's from Jen and I thought we'd start this one off because it is probably the most common one that I get asked and I guess a lot of people are wondering about how often do you recommend replacing your shoes and Laura just followed up with that with a slightly different question which was how can I tell if my shoes need replacing so I guess like any visible signs so we'll answer both of those but going back to Jen how often do you recommend replacing your shoes? That's a great question and one that the answer depends. It used to be that running shoe companies recommended replacing them every 300 to 500 miles. But now with the newer foams that are available, they tend to break down a little more quickly. So like a vapor fly, you're maybe only going to get 150 miles out of. An endorphin speed maybe. 200 to 250. It also depends on a person's individual running mechanics. There's actually some recent research out there that suggests that the foam starts to break down much earlier than we thought, like around 100 to 150 miles. And then after that, it's more about like how much your body can compensate around that foam breaking down. And that's certainly not to suggest that people should be replacing their shoes after only 100 miles. just to be aware that the properties of the foam may actually start changing that early. Ways that people can know when it's time. If all of a sudden your shoes just don't feel the same as they did the prior couple hundred miles, like they feel dead, they don't feel like they're as cushiony, your feet suddenly hurt when you can't think of any other reason why. then you might consider replacing them. Another way to tell is if the outsole has gotten very worn or if you see really asymmetrical wear on your right and left shoes. I've actually got a shoe to show here. So my favorite training shoe is the New Balance Beacon, which I'm holding up. It's a really nice lightweight trainer, but the outsole is pretty minimal. Like most of the outsole is actually the midsole. So... I only get about 150 to 200 miles out of my beacons because I tend to wear the outsole pretty severely at the lateral midfoot. For those who are actually watching on video, you can see how worn it is there. And then you can also see how worn it is under the big toe. So depends on the shoe, depends how much rubber coverage you've got. when they start to just feel like they're not performing the way that they used to, or if you see pretty significant wear, then it's probably time. Okay. So, um, while you're demonstrating there, you showed us the shoe at the, like the tread on the bottom and sort of underneath the base of the little toe and the, the base of sort of the big toe, there was like significant wear and that would sort of justify, okay, needs replacing because you don't want it to chew through until it gets to your sock. The, so I guess recommending on when to replace your shoes, you said that the foam sort of degrades depending on the type of shoes, sometimes earlier than others. My question would be like, if the foam does start losing its characteristics and may not perform at like the top of what you want to get out of it, say for racing shoes, you want that foam to sort of return a lot of energy for performance. If someone's not using that shoe for performance and just doing their easy runs and they're not getting foot pain or any of those, you know, symptoms like you were describing, even if the shoe and the foam is passed, it's kind of expiry date, can they still run in those shoes or do they need to be replaced? If a person isn't having any pain or issues, they're probably okay. Something that I've heard a lot of people say is like, let's say they're super shoes like a vapor fly. They've got 200 miles on them. They feel less bouncy. They're not going to use them in races, but they still use them for workouts. My personal opinion about that is that's not a good idea because at this point, you can feel that the shoe is broken down. You're not getting that same energy return. So the performance of a shoe is kind of a whole package. It's the combination of the foam, the geometry, the plate, any stability features. So if the foam isn't giving you the same energy return, the overall ride and performance is gonna be different than what you've been accustomed to. And for some people, that different performance might still be okay for them, but for other people, it might cause a problem. So I would discourage people from using kind of worn out super shoes as workout shoes. But if you have a shoe that... You want to use for easy runs and it's not giving you any trouble. I would say that's fine, but you've really just got to pay attention to how your body is feeling. It's a lot cheaper to replace a shoe than to get an injury and spend money getting treatment and the misery of not being able to run like you want to. Yeah. And I think with a lot of these, I think a super shoe. would have a different answer to like a traditional shoe because they're so aggressive, the characteristics and the features that it has in there would just be, require a different answer. But I guess my thoughts around it being if the foam and everything slowly degrading over time, then your body's sort of adapting to a traditional shoe, like a, you know, it has a certain amount of foam or a 10 mil heel drop and it... Yes, the characteristics of when I was brand new is totally different. It's probably not returning the same energy, but if you're using that shoe quite frequently as that shoe degrades, kind of you're sort of adapting to it as well, as well as the shoe kind of adapting to you, like you say, you're, you're wearing tear patterns on under the shoe match sort of your running mechanics and be completely different to someone else. But I guess what you're saying is from that point, if you start noticing, like it feels different or the your foot starts getting a bit of pain or the shoe itself becomes a bit too uncomfortable, definitely get it replaced before, you know, worst issues start appearing. Right. Yeah. Because if you think about, like you mentioned, drop, so a shoe, you could take five shoes that all have a stated eight millimeter drop, let's say. And depending on the other properties of the shoe, they all might feel. like a six millimeter drop shoe, a 10 millimeter drop shoe, some of them might feel like an eight. It also depends where you land. But for example, let's say you've got an eight millimeter drop shoe and you're someone as a heel striker. And the shoe initially started out feeling, you know, pretty responsive. It's not marshmallowy. But as the shoe breaks down, it might start feeling a little softer in the heel. Well, the functional drop or how the drop actually feels might change because of that. And for one person, that might not be a problem at all. But for another person, that shoe that used to feel like an eight millimeter drop, but now maybe feels more like a six or a four millimeter drop shoe, that could cause them some discomfort. So of course, as with everything, it's so individual, but basically the surefire ways to know when to replace your shoes are, If you're suddenly having discomfort that you can't explain due to other factors, or if you see extreme wear on both shoes or asymmetrical wear on your shoes, because if they're wearing asymmetrically, of course, you're going to end up landing and pushing off differently than you did before they were worn down and again, could change your mechanics and cause some issues. As you're saying that, um, going back to where you say if symptoms appear out that doesn't make sense anywhere else, it just sort of appears out of nowhere, then maybe it's time to replace the shoes. It might be a good experiment for someone to get new shoes. And then if they feel like a lot better, if those symptoms sort of go away, then we kind of have an idea that it might be the shoes. And then if it feels fine, then maybe you can juggle between the two. You can maybe still run in those old shoes if that's not a particular cause. So it might be a good experiment that people can run. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it is easier when somebody maybe only runs in one or two pairs of shoes as opposed to, you know, someone like me who I'm running in like five pairs of shoes per week, because then you've got too many variables and it's hard to figure out well, okay, this hurts, but what actually caused that? But if you've got like your daily trainers, and then you've got a shoe that you use for workouts, it's pretty easy to figure out. if one of those shoes might be causing you an issue. And yeah, I like your suggestion. Get a new pair. You know you like them. You're going to need a new pair anyway. And then see if you feel any different running in the new pair as opposed to the old pair. Yeah. I had an example that I used in the Run Smarter book about, I used to run in these minimalist shoes, these Innovate minimalist shoes. And I was running on this. At the time, I was running at my parents' place, really gravel kind of loose. gravel under underfoot and I had a very narrow crossover step width and just like your wear pattern under sort of the little toe, it would chew through that shoe within four months. And I hadn't really done a lot of mileage, but I had a significant hole. Like I could see my sock straight away. But then I bought new shoes, the exact same pair, but they're brand new. And I changed my running style to widen my step width a little bit. And at the time I wasn't living with my parents then I'd moved out. And so I was mainly on footpath and those shoes lasted me. I just had to replace them like a couple of months ago, but they lasted me like four or five years just because same shoe, but just different change of, um, running mechanics and changing surface and the longevity of that shoe just like was exponential. So, um, just a little factor that, you know, when we talk about expiry dates and mileage and that sort of stuff, a lot of individual factors do come into it. Oh, absolutely. So like the guys at DRR like to give me a hard time because I'm currently mourning the discontinuation of the New Balance beacon. But the truth is it's time for me to move on and find another shoe. That shoe worked really well for me when I, you know, started running a lot more a couple of years ago. I needed a shoe with a wider forefoot, but now, you know, back then I was maybe running 30 miles a week. Now I'm running 60 to 70 miles a week. actually, like you said, the way that I wear those shoes has changed compared to two years ago. So it's pretty amazing how much we can change our bodies, right? Like we really are not static creatures. Change is a constant. Change is really the only constant, right? So it's important when it comes to shoes along with everything else, just to be flexible, have an open mind, something that Maybe you wouldn't have considered trying might be a really great shoe for you. So just be willing to try different things. You might surprise yourself. Yeah. A lot of people can have a very rigid, um, idea about the shoe they love or the shoe they want, they don't want to change, but you know, maybe it's worth trialing for you cause you might love another pair of shoes that you'll never know unless you try something different. Absolutely. Yep. I've definitely discovered some shoes that I love that I would have never bought on my own simply because I've tested them for doctors are running. So it's awesome to broaden my horizons and learn more about like what features of shoes work for me. Because as an athlete, the more you learn about yourself, the better you're going to be. Hmm. Well said. Okay. You know, that answer, I kind of want to spend a little bit more time on, but it's going to be a two hour podcast if we spend so long on every question the same. Rebecca asks. If I run both trail and road, is it better to run in my trail shoes or will it wear out my trail shoes if I do more of it on pavement? So I guess particularly for those who are doing a trail and pavement within the same run, what would you recommend in terms of footwear? It really depends on what the trails are like that you're running on. There are There are tons of road shoes that perform really well on dirt, on like gravel paths, but where they don't perform well is in mud or in loose dirt or sand or on like really rocky or rooty trails. So if you're running on tame paths, you're probably fine using a road shoe. But if you're running on more technical trails, you probably do need the benefit of having some lugs. rocks and roots that you might be stepping on. So first it depends on the specific trails you're running on. Second it depends well what percentage of your run is going to be pavement and trail. If you're going to be on the trail for 80% of your run and on pavement for 20% well then choose the shoe that's going to perform best on the trail. If it's like 50-50 then I think you have you always need to err on the side of safety, right? When you're running off-road, you need something that's gonna grip, that's gonna handle quick lateral movements if you're running on a twisty trail. So pick the shoe that's gonna perform best in the more challenging environment, which of course is the trail. So that being said, if you run on the road a lot in trail shoes, yes, you are gonna wear the lugs down faster. But fortunately, running shoe companies have come out with this category of shoe, which I think is hilarious coming from the cycling world. They call them gravel shoes. In cycling, a gravel bike is kind of a hybrid road slash mountain bike. It can handle dirt roads and light trails. So we've got gravel bikes and now we've got gravel shoes. So gravel shoes have light features of a trail shoe. They have smaller lugs. They usually don't have a rock plate. They usually have some non-traditional stability features like sidewalls to kind of help hold the foot in place. And I was fortunate enough to test one last year, the Reebok Float Ride Energy Adventure 3. Now they're on the 4. I didn't get to test that one, but some of the other guys at DOR did. And I've got to say, I was so impressed by that shoe. We have very technical trails here in Connecticut. It is all rocks and roots. You're never going in one direction for very long. You've got to constantly change your cadence just to stay upright and not fall on your face. And that shoe could handle the most technical trails that we have here. But if I ran in it on the road, it didn't bother my feet like a lot of more heavy duty trail shoes do. Usually shoes with a rock plate, they're really stiff. That's what the rock plate does. It stiffens the sole to protect your feet from rocks. So that Reebok shoe, it's kind of the best of both worlds and I really enjoyed using that. So that might be a good option for your listener. Again, depending on the specific types of trails she's using. If she's using tamer trails, I would just say stick with a road shoe. that has enough rubber outsole coverage to give grip. But if you're running on technical trails, I would check out the Reebok Float Ride Adventure 3 or 4. OK, I'm getting a couple of takeaways from that. So if you are doing trails, we sort of need to err on the side of safety. And that would depend on how technical the trail is compared to what shoe that we have. But if we're looking at the road and saying, OK, well, are trail shoes OK for road or pavement, then we're sort of, I guess, looking at comfort. OK, does it still offer the same amount of comfort that a normal road shoe would have? And if it does feel uncomfortable, then we probably shouldn't be, we definitely shouldn't be running with those sort of shoes on pavement. Right, yeah. And there are some trail shoes that have a rock plate that feel perfectly fine on the road to me. It's going to be very personal. Some people can probably run on the road in any trail shoe and be comfortable. Other people might be a little more sensitive, but in general, shoes with rock plates tend to be less comfortable on the road. Yep. Okay. Well said. We've got some super shoe questions. Um, so for those who aren't familiar, we sort of mentioned it before, but a super shoe would be something that has like a carbon fiber plate, like those real Aggressive shoes really high stack heights, you know, you've got your alpha flies, vapor flies. Um, most people are familiar with those, but if you aren't, that's sort of what they are. Laura asks, how do I know if a sup, if super shoes are appropriate for me to get faster for races? Cause this is, it's like a racing shoe. It's designed to help your, your running performance. So how can we tell if it's suitable for certain people? Is it a certain foot type or? Are you at risk of certain amount of injuries? How can we allocate these types of shoes to people? That's a really great question and such a common one because who wouldn't want to buy a shoe that supposedly makes your 4% faster, right? So first of all, to answer her question, I think it's important that we define what a super shoe is. Simon Bartold, who is the founder of Bartold Clinical, defines a super shoe as a shoe that has a high stack, so like normally more than 30 millimeters, a carbon or composite plate, and rocker geometry. So there, now we're seeing more and more super shoes that aren't even designed for racing. Like you've got the Hoka Bondi X, which is definitely not a racing shoe, but it is a super shoe. So I'll answer her question based on like these more racy, more aggressive super shoes as compared to, you know, the Bondi, which is just a plated trainer. Super shoes because of their properties change a runner's biomechanics. So I'm gonna pull up a super shoe here. So this is the original Vaporfly. You can see it's got a pretty high stack, but not as high as some of the shoes that are newer on the market. You can see that the front and the back are kind of turned up. So there's only like the middle part of the shoe that actually rests on the ground. So the back part, it's like the shape of a banana. Like if you, if you place it on the ground, it's sort of like you say, it rocks. So the rock goes like in the banana type of shape. Right. So The rocker under the heel is called the heel rocker or a heel bevel. And the rocker under the forefoot is called a forefoot rocker. When you see the front of the shoe with the toes turned up, that's specifically called a toe spring. So this shoe's got a pretty decent heel bevel, a pretty decent forefoot rocker. Not huge toe spring, but you can see that the toes are turned up slightly. But The way that this shoe is designed, it kind of actually has a seesaw effect. So you land on your heel or on your midfoot and it kind of immediately rolls you, gets you on your forefoot, and then the forefoot rocker helps you push off much more quickly than you would in a more traditional daily trainer. So how does that change the requirements of our body when we're running? The rocker geometry, specifically of a super shoe, shifts load from the foot and the ankle to the hip. So, super shoes can actually be good for people who have ankle issues, ankle range of motion limitations, if your foot intrinsics aren't super strong, it can reduce the work that those muscles do. But loads never disappear, they just get shifted elsewhere. And because of the nature of the rocker geometry of the shoe, the shoe is essentially going to push you into hip extension faster and earlier than you would if you were running in like a normal daily trainer. And part of that is what makes you faster. The whole performance benefit of a super shoe really comes from the combination of the plate, the foam, which has very high energy return, and the rocker geometry. But the rocker geometry really contributes to the change, the change biomechanical requirements of running. So people who run in super shoes are at greater risk of developing hip related issues like hip flexor pain, proximal hamstring tendon problems, which I know is a favorite topic of yours Brody. So before somebody starts running in a super shoe, need to make sure that you have sufficient strength and range of motion to do it, particularly at your hip. If you have limited hip extension range of motion, or if your glutes and hamstrings aren't as strong as they should be, you may be more likely to end up with hip pain if you run a lot in super shoes. So the first, getting back to your listener's question, you've first got to make sure One of the things that you talk about a lot on this podcast, and we talk a lot about at Doctors of Running, is running requires a ton of strength. It's not something you can just like roll out of bed and do. You've got to have sufficient strength and range of motion to run without increasing your risk of injury. And running in a super shoe meets that requirement, but even more so because of the way the design of the shoe places greater demands on your hip. The other thing to consider is, I'm not sure your listener mentioned how long she's been running or what type of running she's doing. So we really don't recommend that new runners start out running in super shoes, because it's important for you to just learn how to run without the shoe influencing your mechanics. You need to learn to run just relying on your body. Maybe once you've done like a fair, you know, a couple training blocks with some speed work, maybe if you've done some races in like a traditional performance shoe or racing flat and not had any issues, then you might start consider adding a super shoe into your rotation. But you definitely wouldn't just want to go buy a pair of alpha flies and race a 5k in them. You need to get your body used to the changed mechanics of running in a super shoe. So you might first just use it for like an easy run where you do a few strides at the end and then don't run in them the next day but maybe a few days later do like a short fart lick workout where you're doing like threshold pace for the hard bounce. And you just want to like gradually introduce the use of that super shoe. that your body can become accustomed to using it. It's just like if you were starting a new strength training program you wouldn't you know start doing single leg squats with 100 pounds you would make sure you could do it with body weight with good form and then progress the weight and reps as indicated. Similarly with super shoes it's a new load your body has to get used to it so you want to gradually introduce that you don't run the risk of injury. The other thing that your listener might consider is that not all super shoes are designed the same. So the Vaporfly and AlphaFly have pretty aggressive rockers, but there are other super shoes that don't have aggressive rocker geometry. The plate is maybe a little more flexible so it's going to feel a little more like a trainer. So I'm going to grab Deviate Nitro 2. It's a shoe that I just got done reviewing. There are reviews on doctors of running, but it has a carbon composite plate. It has Puma's Deviate Elite Foam, which is their highest level foam that they use in their racing shoes. But I really found that this shoe felt more like a springier trainer as opposed to the way that like the Vaporfly or AlphaFly feel to me. And the reason for that is one, the plate is definitely more flexible. But two, I'm gonna hold the shoe up again. You can see that both the rocker in the heel and the rocker in the forefoot are not nearly as severe as the vapor fly that I was holding up. The sole appears flatter for the greater length of the shoe. So while yes, there is a little bit of rocker geometry here. it's not going to have that aggressive feel where it almost feels like the shoe is pushing you from initial contact to push off. It's a very pleasant shoe to run in. It's definitely bouncier. It feels better than running in an everyday trainer, but it definitely doesn't feel like it puts as much stress on the hip as, say, the Vaporfly or Alphafly. If this is your favourite podcast and you want to have inner circle access and a VIP podcast experience, then join our podcast Patreon tribe. Mingle with like-minded listeners who love the podcast so much that they are happy to contribute $5 Aussie dollars per month to receive exclusive benefits and play a key role in the future direction of this podcast. So the first step is to click on the Patreon link in the show notes. Step 2 is to follow the instructions to subscribe. and instructions on how to join the Private Facebook Group. You can cancel at any time. Step three, log back into your Run Smarter app and all the Patreon episodes will be unlocked for you to binge on. Step four is to keep active in the Private Facebook Group that's designed only for our patrons by voting on future podcast topics, submitting questions to future guests, interacting in our Facebook Live episodes, and helping me out with your feedback whenever I need your assistance for future podcast steps. So sign up and say hi to your new patron family and we'll see you there. I did speak to Simon Barthold about a year ago on the podcast talking about these super shoes and he did mention to people that these shoes are designed for very, very good runners. Like that's the original intent is for like you need to be a good runner before starting to run in these shoes. And while yes recreational runners do run in them, some of them love them, some of them just like stick to running in them. They are tailored. and designed for that specific type of runner. And so yes, following your advice around, okay, build up a good strength and base of running first, then transition appropriately into those super shoes if that's something that you'd want to do, and then keep an idea of, keep in the back of your mind that there are different super shoes with different characteristics, one that might suit you compared to others. So great points there. We'll move on to Craig who has a question about insoles and says, when is it worthwhile to buy insoles and does replacing the insole in older shoes make a difference? That is another great question and another very common one. So contrary to what many running stores would lead you to believe, most runners do not need to buy an upgraded insole for their running shoes. shoes are designed around the sock liner that comes with them. The sock liner is essentially the orthotic or insert that comes with the shoe. When you take that out and put in like a Superfeet or a Dr. Scholl's or whatever brand, you're changing the interaction of the rest of the shoe and the insert that you put in. So if you think about let's say I'm going to hold up another shoe here. So this is the top of Spectre. This is a non-plated shoe, but you can see it's got pretty significant rocker geometry both in the heel and the forefoot. And if you look at it from the top, although it's kind of hard to see in the video, there's a lot of sole flare. So meaning the sole is a lot wider than the upper. And sole flare is one way. of helping to guide motion in a certain direction. So let's say that I took out the sock liner that came in that topo specter and I put in an insole that has like pretty high arch support and it's pretty rigid. Well that's going to change how my foot progresses from initial contact to push off and it might actually work against the geometry of that shoe. So Runners should be really cautious if they go to a running store and no matter what shoe they're buying the store employee tells them that they really need to buy an upgraded insert because more than likely you don't. There are some conditions that may benefit from the temporary use of an orthotic posterior tibialis tendonitis is one of them, but it's something that you would use for a short period of time while you're getting over the problem, not the rest of your life. Similarly, heel pain, like non-specific heel pain, people who have that can benefit from the short-term use of an orthotic. One study actually found that if taping your arch reduces your heel pain, then you may be more likely to also get pain relief if you use... like a over-the-counter orthotic like Superfeed or one of the brands that's sold at stores, not like a fully custom orthotic that like a podiatrist would make for you. So no, you don't need to get orthotics for your shoes. And two, the other part of the question, does replacing the insoles in older shoes make a difference? No, because if that part of the shoe is what has worn down first, That's actually a little concerning. You wouldn't really expect the sock liner to be the first thing that wore down. It would usually be the foam or the outsole. So if you've got a shoe like my beacon that I held up there where I had worn through the out, like around my pinky toe, changing the sock liner is not gonna do anything for me. It's still gonna, the shoe is still gonna feel the same. So to summarize, unless you have a specific foot condition, that can benefit from the temporary use of an orthotic. Don't waste your money. You're better off just using what came in the shoe. I like these sort of answers. I like the, there's a lot more certainty in your answer compared to a lot of the others that have a lot of unknowns and a lot of other variable, I guess, factors that are at play. So that's great. We have Lena asking the next question. Can you please recommend a cushy stability shoe for long in brackets size 10. So she's a size 10 women's, but narrow foot. So any particular advice around a cushy shoe for people that have long but narrow feet? Oh, I should say she's currently in her um, ASICS gel Kayano's, but she wants something with a little bit more cushion. Oh, okay. Um, so the Kayano is not known to be a super cushy shoe. So fortunately for her, there's several shoes that are more cushioned that still have like pretty strong stability features. So just a few shoes that come to mind are the New Balance Vongo, the Hoka Arahi, and the Saucony Hurricane or the Saucony Tempest. The Tempest is actually replacing the Hurricane this year. So the one thing I would say about the Vongo, it's a little bit wider in the forefoot. It's got a ton of stack, very cushioned. The midfoot and rear foot fit a little bit more snug, so depending what part of her foot is narrow, she might do well in the Van Gogh. As far as weight considerations, the Tempus and the Arahi are the lightest. They're both right around nine ounces, which is pretty awesome for a stability shoe with a ton of stack. The Tempus is kind of an interesting option for her. I wouldn't say it's a narrow forefoot. I have a wider forefoot and I don't have any issues running in the Tempus, but the Tempus as compared to the other three shoes I mentioned doesn't have a post. It's Saucony's really incredible example of what we call a stable neutral shoe. So it has several features that don't push your foot or ankle in one direction, but kind of help keep you centered. regardless of whether you tend to land more on the outside of your foot, more on the inside, more on your midfoot, more on your heel. It's a really interesting shoe because it works for runners with such different mechanics. Depending on how severely her stability needs are, the Tempus might be a really great option, but otherwise she might try the Vongo or the Arahi. Amy said she has the opposite question. Um, she has why Durfete and was wondering if trying on some male sizes might be a better option and ask the question, is there a difference? Is there much of a difference between male and female sized shoes? Oh yeah, that's a great question and actually a really common one. So of course women and men can wear each other's shoes. There, when it comes to widths. The widths of shoes are 2A, which is the narrowest, B, which is the regular width that women's shoes come in, D, which is the regular width that men's shoes come in, 2E, and 4E. So 4E is the widest, 2A is the narrowest. So for a female, if you find regular women's shoes too narrow, and that's the B width, then you might do very well just buying the regular width of a men's shoe, which is the next width up, which is D. You've also got a lot more options in terms of the men's 2E and 4E. So definitely try men's shoes. That's something that I do often. There are a few brands that the women's B width is just too narrow for me, so I just buy the men's size. Now the other part of her question is a favorite topic of mine. Is there a difference between men's and women's shoes? And you'll see quite a few running shoe companies claiming that their internal research has found that women and men have different foot structures, women and men have different biomechanical needs, so they have designed their women's version of the shoe slightly different than the men's version. Now, they rarely published this research so it's kind of frustrating to not be able to check it out. So for example the ASICS Gel Nimbus Lite 3, which is a shoe I tested last year. The men's version is a 10mm drop shoe and the women's version is 13. And they say that they did that because they found that that's what women need in terms of biomechanics. They didn't say why specifically, but they also said that in addition to increasing the drop, they made the foam a little more compliant. And I am a person who can almost never run in a shoe that has more than 8mm of drop. I just hate the way it feels. It makes me feel like I'm wearing a high heeled shoe. And the Gel Nimbus Lite 3 felt great. It definitely did not feel like a 13mm drop shoe to me, probably because the foam was softer so it compressed more at initial contact. But back to the point about women's and men's shoes being different. In the cycling world they used to make bikes that were different geometries, different men's and women's saddles, different men's and women's shoes. And one of the biggest bike companies in the world specialized, they have this huge database from their bike fitters. and they have foot scanning machines and their fitters enter all of this biometric data from their clients. Specialized published a research paper that analyzed data from 7,000 bike fits and almost 10,000 foot scans and they found no significant difference in the length to width proportions of the foot or in people's torso length to leg length proportions. And it really led specialized to conclude that they did not need to make women's and men's specific bikes or shoes. So knowing that they analyzed all of that data and that runners and cyclists do not have different feet, we have different biomechanics, but our feet aren't different lengths or widths, it really makes me question why running shoe companies feel the need to say, oh, women's shoe needs to be narrower in the heel. Because I think if you looked at large amounts of data, you're probably going to find that there isn't a significant difference. Now, of course, we know that women have a larger cue angle, and that can potentially lead to difference in biomechanics, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you need a shoe to fit differently. The point is, try on different shoes, whether you're a man or a woman, find the shoe that fits and find the shoe that's most comfortable for you. If you are a man with a very narrow foot, you might find that women's shoes are the most comfortable and fit your best. And if you're a woman with a wide foot, you might find that men's shoes are more comfortable and fit your best. So I'm sure you've talked on the podcast before about the comfort filter. people tend to do better in shoes that they find to be more comfortable. And that really is one of the best guiding characteristics of a shoe in directing your shoe purchases. If it's not comfortable when you're running, you're probably not going to like it. So fit is a big part of that. So find a shoe that fits you well. Don't worry whether it's labeled men's or women's. shoe width advice and the different sizes that you mentioned really interesting. So you said there's 2A which is the most narrow and then it goes B, D then 2E and 4E from narrow to wider and it seems like that's not gender specific like that would just you know but is there a way to like is that displayed on say like online shoe stores like if you have a certain type of shoe Will it then just also display what width that type of shoe is for a different size? Or what does that look like? It depends on which website you're looking at. New Balance does a really good job of stating like the specific letters, but in general, let's say you're on a running shoe website and you're looking at women's shoes and they say regular, they mean B width. If they say wide for women. they mean d width. If you are looking at men's shoes and they say regular, they mean d width. And if you are looking at men's shoes and they say wide, they mean 2e. So it's kind of confusing. It would be better if they just used the letters and helped people understand what the rating system was or maybe use a r- a naming system that makes a little more sense and doesn't skip letters. Um, but yes, you should be able to find the width on most running shoe sites somewhere. And maybe like sometimes there's a dropdown menu for like specifications or specifics that, you know, it goes into a bit more detail about the, um, sizing and that sort of stuff. So maybe you can find it there because if you find, okay, I fit well in with shoes, then you can just keep looking for those and hopefully, you know, not have to have these issues that Lena and Amy were having about, you know, I'm finding it trouble to find a shoe that fits me the best. You can just like a shoe size. You can say I'm a size 10 and just go for that every time. It can be, should be that simple. Exactly. Yeah. It would be nice if it was that simple. Good to know because I've never knew about that. The width sizes. I've never heard that. Most running shoe companies offer wider, not everybody offers narrower. New Balance definitely does the best, at least online, at offering both narrower versions and wider versions. You're not going to find 4e in a running store, you're probably going to have to order that, but you should be able to go on say New Balance's website and find the range from 2a to 4e. But if you're just looking for a wider shoe, most of the big running companies offer a wider version of some of their shoes. They don't offer a wider version of all of them. But now with like search filters, you can usually like go to the dropdown and select I want wide or I want D width or 2E width, and they'll show you which shoes are available in that. All right, excellent. We've got our last question from Nicholas, who asks for recommendations for highly cushioned neutral shoes that he can use for a long, easy run, but also for people who are orthotic wearers. So any advice for Nicholas? Yeah, and so there are some people who need orthotics. And fortunately, a couple of running shoe companies make shoes that are designed for orthotics. So like I mentioned earlier with the example of the Tapo Spector, you want a shoe that is very neutral because you don't want the geometry of the shoe to be influencing your mechanics. You kind of want the shoe to just let your orthotic do what it's designed to do. So the two shoes that are specifically designed to take orthotics are the Brooks Dyad and the Saucony Echelon. They are both neutral cushioned shoes. They're trainers. They're definitely not racing shoes. They're both heavier than 10 ounces, I believe, but they're designed to have the sock liner removed, they're neutral. And they also have a little additional volume, meaning there's more space inside the shoe to accept the additional height that an orthotic is going to add to the interior of the shoe. Excellent. Well, thanks to all the patrons for submitting those questions. As we wrap up, are there any, I like to ask, are there any final takeaways or advice and that sort of stuff, but I can see you're very passionate on certain topics of these running shoes. And I would also ask like, are there any myths or misconceptions that you see around shoes, whether it be shoe types, shoe fittings, um, that you've come across that we might not have covered on this episode? Yeah. I think such a really common question that we get at Doctors of Running is Well, what's the best shoe? And there is no best shoe. Like there isn't one best shoe for everyone, and there isn't one best shoe for me, there isn't one best shoe for you. Shoes should be looked at as tools, and a shoe is used for a specific purpose. So there may be a shoe that's really good for me as a daily trainer. there might be another shoe that works well for me as a racing shoe. But like I said earlier, that's probably going to change next year or two years from now because my body is going to change and how I run is going to change. And what works really well for me might not work really well for someone else, even if we have the exact same characteristics, like let's say we had the same foot size, running mechanics, strength, height, leg length, whatever. People are individuals and there's so many factors that go into why a shoe works better for one person as compared to the other. You really have to try on shoes, see what's comfortable, see what works well with your mechanics. And then the other thing that I really recommend runners do is start paying attention to patterns. So look back at the What have you liked? What have you not liked? Look at the shoes that you liked. Well, what features made you like them? Was it that you finally found a shoe that was wide enough in the forefoot? Is it all of the shoes that you really like have a certain rocker geometry? All of the shoes that you like have kind of soft foam? Or you really only like shoes that are on the firmer side? And once you start learning your own personal patterns, That will help you the next time you go to the running store in helping you talk to the person working there and you can say, hey, I really like shoes with these features. And a well-educated running store employee should be able to say, okay, I'm going to bring out a few shoes that have what you like. And that person might also bring out something that is a little different and try that too because again, you might be surprised. But just keep in mind. There is no perfect shoe for anybody. So it's about figuring out what works for you and listening to your body. Yeah. A good way to put it, because some people might be searching for that answer and just keep asking, keep asking when in fact, you know, there probably isn't a right answer and like you said, people's running changes, even though their goals might change, they might want to run marathons to then running fast 5ks, changing trails, going, most people. Well, not most people, but some people go from a marathon to an ultra or a trail and like everything completely changes in terms of their surface and terrain and that sort of thing. But also to come add to the complexity, like shoe companies keep bringing out different shoes and you know, you don't know if you're that one is probably the best for you. We didn't know about super shoes until like, you know, five, 10 years ago. And now it's a big part of our discussion. So You know, the goalpost keeps moving people's priorities and preferences and interests keep changing. And it's good that we have people like you and the doctors of running to review these shoes to get a really good understanding. And then at least potentially narrow down a few shoes that then you can try on and then see what best fits you. I think that's a pretty nice way to wrap up this conversation. So Andrea, thanks for coming on, sharing your wisdom. There's a lot of wisdom in there. And it's been a great episode. So thanks very much. Thanks so much Brody. And that concludes another run smarter lesson. I hope you walk away from this episode feeling empowered and proud to be a run smarter scholar, because when I think of runners like you who are listening, I think of runners who recognize the power of knowledge, who don't just learn, but implement these lessons who are done with repeating the same injury cycle over and over again. who want to take an educated, active role in their rehab, who are looking for evidence-based, long-term solutions, and will not accept problematic quick fixes. And last but not least, who serve a cause bigger than themselves and pass on the right information to other runners who need it. I look forward to bringing you another episode and helping you on your Run Smarter path.