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Motorcycle Safety and Awareness
Welcome to think bike, the podcast about all things motorcycle and the voice of motorcycle safety and awareness in Alberta. Your host is Liane Langlois.
Liane:Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Think Bike. We talk a lot about rider training in Canada and in Alberta and what it takes and what you should do to get a license in our province. But it's always interesting to learn more about what rider training is in different countries. So today we have Josh Bogage coming on from Montana who is a motorcycle instructor down there to kind of, you know, inform us about what they do and maybe what's different, what's the same.
Liane:Welcome to the show, Josh.
Josh:Hi. How are you, Liane? How's it going?
Liane:Pretty good. If we go back a few years, you're part of my Montana clan. Yeah. I I think I know you best for the guy with the nicest Vincent's motorcycles around.
Josh:Well, thank you.
Liane:So tell us a little bit about who is Josh and what got you into riding?
Josh:Okay. Josh is a guy who's been living in Montana about eleven years. Moved here from Los Angeles after twenty some years. And before that, I lived in New England where I started really riding on the street. And I've been riding a long time, obviously, if you add all those periods of time up.
Josh:And I just you know, it's weird now being at this stage of my life because I've been riding a very long time, and a lot of my friends are related to riding. A lot of social things that I do are related to riding, And, you know, it's an important part of my life for sure.
Liane:Absolutely. And like I'd mentioned, you have a Vincent or possibly two, and you once put together, like, a Vincent's event, did you not?
Josh:Yeah. I hosted the I hosted the North American Vincent rally here in Missoula back in 2016. I have a Vincent twin. It's a thousand cc bike '19 51. I've had that since about fifteen years or so now.
Josh:And so, yeah, I had about 70 Vincent's here in town and a 150 people, and it it was really it was really a blast sharing, you know, such a beautiful place to ride with beautiful bikes and people that that enjoy riding though too. So, yeah, that was great. I have I have that bike. I have five motorcycles. I have an old Indian Chief 1947.
Josh:I have that Vincense of '51. I have a 1973 Triumph 500 Trophy trials bike it is, and I have a BMW g six fifty x challenge. That's a 2007 and a KTM nine fifty Supermoto 2006.
Liane:Is Is there there a a favorite? Favorite?
Josh:I really love that Supermoto. I mean, I love my I love my Vincent. I love my Vincent, but the Supermoto, I've I just love that bike. It's just it it you know, when I lived in LA, living in a city like Los Angeles, you really have to split lanes or or lane filter as I think it's probably done more in Canada than it is here.
Liane:None of that's legal up here.
Josh:Really? No. No. It isn't? Well, we did that, and, you know, I when I first moved there, because I was from Massachusetts, the only time I ever did it there was when the traffic was totally bumper to bumper, not moving on a highway, then I would go.
Josh:But Yeah. Yeah. After doing that in LA, it just you have to. Because, really, if you start thinking about it, I mean, it's just safer to always have some forward momentum when you're stopped at there's nothing that frightens me more than being on a roadway where the speed limit is sixty, fifty five or 60 miles an hour, you know, a 100 kilometers an hour and and not moving. Because what if some guy in a semi cut you know?
Josh:So to me, if you're always moving forward a little bit, you can kinda stay ahead of what I don't I come. Yeah.
Liane:I don't at all disagree with you on that. Yeah. Like, stance here is that lane filtering at the slower speeds would probably be a good way to introduce in Canada. But Mhmm. When we don't have year round riding like you do in places like LA, and then combine that with certain attitudes of Yeah.
Liane:Zero courtesy.
Josh:You know? Well, they had like anything, education is important. Edu educating not only you know, writers can ask me, oh, because we have a law here in Montana, but it's very specific about lane filtering or lane it's really lane sharing. Mhmm. You know, almost because you're and you get and so there's specific rules that you have to follow.
Josh:Like, you can't go more than a total of 20 miles an hour, and the traffic can't be going more than 10 miles an hour. And, you know, 10 miles an hour is not that fast. No. And so you if you really are doing it the way they say, it's not like it is in LA. No.
Josh:Anyway, I've driven in a lot of places. What's your favorite? Places. Well, I mean, so when I started riding in when I was in college and in Florida, and I didn't have any any any knowledge of riding a motorcycle when I started. And what I tell my students is is I learned by natural selection kinda thing.
Josh:And so I'm just lucky. It's a lot better if you can get some basic building blocks to work on and focus on as a beginning rider because it's let's face it. It we all know you've been riding a long time, and I have too. And it can be one of the most fulfilling and enjoyable things you can do, but it's extremely dangerous if you're not really paying attention to everything. I consider it like being a pilot.
Josh:You know? You really have very, very little room for error. It just takes a moment of inattention to you know? And everything comes apart. So you know?
Liane:I've had Anyway. I've had a couple of close calls myself, and I attribute me being able to get out of them to the fundamentals that I learned in my rider training. Let's get into that a little bit. Sure.
Josh:Sure.
Liane:I'm I'm curious to know because I actually don't. Like what really is involved in like, a motorcycle course? I guess we can speak to Montana. Yeah. I'm sure it's different state by state, but we'll since you are an instructor in Montana, let's let's talk about that specifically.
Liane:How, like, how long is the course?
Josh:Okay. Well, the way the course works, the it it's it's a it's based on the motorcycle safety foundation training that's set up. And so this is a two day course the way we present it here, the way I have been presenting it. It's a two day course. It's, you know, about six hours each day.
Josh:And then at the end of that two day course, you basically take the writing test that you would take if you just went to the DMV with us, and we have the capability of saying, you know, that you that you have passed. But, there's also a five hour online course that that we use in this state, and I believe most states have transitioned to that as well, which actually covers the whole course. You don't realize it as a student, but, I mean, as you're doing this online study, you are getting the entire course and everything. And and it's a it's a really well designed program that that was you know, that has evolved over the years by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. There's other types of programs in other states like California used to use that, and I believe they use the Lee Parks total control program, which is very similar if you looked at the manuals and but, I mean, there are specific goalposts that we as coaches need to see as the rider candidates are going through the course and, you know, things that we have to try and focus on and let them understand why they need to, you know, keep their head looking where they wanna go, and just all the things that become second nature and common sense after you have time to ride, but you have to survive to get that experience.
Josh:So if, you know, if you if we can give them some guidance, you know, it's it's very rewarding.
Liane:So does it start like here in in Alberta, we start like we can take somebody who's never been on a bike before and after, like our course ends up being about two and a half days. So similar in length. And it's like, it starts with we start with well, I don't know if it's changed. It's been a while since I took a course, but it started with, you know, just like pushing a bike and understanding how it moves and getting on and learning that sweet spot of the clutch.
Josh:Exactly. That really is. Like I said, the program was designed by guys a lot smarter than me. I just had to learn how to present it and, you know, help people understand the things that you know, to focus on, but that is exactly it. The first thing you have to understand is how the transfer of the power goes to the rear wheel.
Josh:And, I mean, this may change with electric bikes. I'm sure that, you know, that because the way the power just comes straight on, it's just it's a different kind of relationship. But, I mean, it'll have the same type of effect, but you have to know how to start moving and stop moving and be in control of that, basically. In the case of a clutch, it's it's a little more unless people have experience driving manual cars. So but, yeah, that is a 100% the way you have to do it and learn that clutch and learn where that friction zone is in that in that and not be afraid to use that.
Josh:It's different than driving. It's it's a diff you know, it's different than using a clutch in a in a vehicle for the most part.
Liane:It it is. I've driven an manual car, and there's nowhere that I need to kinda, like, you know, sit with a clutch as much in a car as I do on a bike. I'm assuming you guys are in a lot and do you set up different types of like exercises monitor that care and control?
Josh:What kind of What what happens is we well, basically, it's a step by step course, and it is designed for people that have not it's designed for somebody that wants to ride and has a desire to learn and be safe. And and there are 14 exercises in the course of the two days. We go through eight exercises the first day, and we do nine through 14, and then we do that skill evaluation, which is five different skills at the end of the the the the whole program. And then keeping in mind that as we are coaching through these exercises, you are doing those skills that you're gonna be tested on at the end throughout. It evolves.
Josh:The course evolves. Like you had said, first, you use the you know, you use you learn how to use the friction zone, then you have to learn how to start and stop safely. I mean, it's just building blocks where you're not overwhelming people. Mhmm. Sometimes it can though.
Josh:I mean, there are situations where people need more time. I mean, it is designed for a reasonable you know, it's there not everybody passes. I would say the predominance of people pass, but but not everybody does pass because if you're not gonna be safe on the road, I I'm not I cannot in good conscience give you that. You know? You can do it on your own if you can get them to let you pass.
Josh:You understand what I mean?
Liane:Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What are so okay. I have two questions from that.
Josh:Yeah. Yeah.
Liane:Sorry. No. The first would be, so if if they go through the course with you and then do the five skills test at the end, you can issue a license versus your DMV issuing a license?
Josh:Well, we give them a completion card. The way it works in Montana and because of the way the structure is with the DMV and everything, they have to take a written test with the state of Montana, which oftentimes is constructed in conjunction with the Motorcycle Safety Foundation and the state of Montana traffic to you know, saying we gotta make sure this isn't and then they have to pay pass a written test. So, basically, it's a written and a practical, like a lot of things when you're getting a certification. So you you have to do the written with the state. We don't provide any written, testing anymore.
Josh:You take that online class. You have to kind of pass a test in that in the process of taking that. And then you get this card, and you can go to the DMV here and say that you wanna get your endorsement. You would if you had a permit, that would be like a temporary endorsement where you cannot ride after dark. You cannot have passengers.
Josh:You must wear a helmet. You know, there's all these parameters that fit as a you you know, if you're riding, you need to ride with a licensed rider, which all those things are good. When I started riding as my, you know, Charles Darwin approach to riding was, I had friends, and I had good friends, responsible friends. Some friends like me that were learning and, you know, screwed up and did stupid things, and then other friends who would say, hey. Let's go to the gas station and check the air in our tires.
Josh:You know, it's a good thing to check the air. I remember the first time I was riding around, and I didn't have gloves even. You know, I was riding and and this when I was a kid, I was, you know, 20 whatever. Yep. 21, and I'm riding, and my buddy said, oh, no.
Josh:No. No. No. You gotta get gloves. What happens?
Josh:What happens when you fall? What do you do when you yeah. You put your hands. You know, you get you need your hands. You you you don't think about it.
Josh:You know? So you gotta protect them. Okay. Thanks. You know?
Josh:Here, take these. I got an old pair. You know? Try these. See if you like them.
Josh:You know, that's how your friends do. Let's check the air. Hey. You know? Check the air.
Josh:Wow. This thing handles amazing now. I cannot even believe that I ever didn't check the air. I mean, these are just simple things
Liane:Mhmm.
Josh:But they're common sense things, and you have to use your head Yep. Because because, you know, the responsibility of being safe is yours when you're on a well, when you're driving a car too, but it's much more acutely important if you're riding a motorcycle.
Liane:Yeah. We have a saying that is traffic safety starts with each individual road user. So that includes like your Vespas all the way to your semi tracks and stuff like that. What are the I'd be interested to know what the five skills at the end for the test in Montana is because back when I licensed, it was eight up here and one I nearly failed out on. And I'll tell you about that once you tell me what yours are.
Liane:But now they there's a mandatory road test. But what are your five skills that
Josh:you test a lot in the past? There's a weave. You have to weave around few cones and then stop safely. Mhmm. You know, like, kinda doing almost a u-turn.
Josh:Everything builds. You know? So it seems like a simple thing, and a lot of times when the students see that the first thing you have them do is this weave around five cones, but you specifically tell them certain things, which direction to go around the cone, things like that. If they don't do that correctly, they start amassing points.
Liane:Yep.
Josh:And this is like golf. You don't want points. And so but you weave, and then you stop safely in a spot that we say. The next exercise would be a turn from a stop and a u-turn. So it's like a right turn from a stop with your feet up and a u-turn to the left, and then stop again safely in that in that box.
Josh:And then we need you to get your speed up for the next two exercises where you get your speed up and you stop when you pass this imaginary line in the shortest distance you safely can. You don't lose points if you skid, but, obviously, if you skid, that could increase the distance of that stop. So utilizing the brake as, you know, smoothly and progressively as you can is really the key with that. And we don't use motorcycles. When in our class, we provide the motorcycles.
Josh:Mhmm. Okay? They're predominantly about 250 cc bikes. They do not have ABS Yeah. At all.
Josh:I have coached with bikes with ABS, and I try and either put seasoned riders on those bikes because oftentimes people will take the class to obtain an endorsement, and they already have experience, which helps us as coaches because if they're doing what we say, I can say, hey. Look at that. See see what, you know, Joe's doing over there. It like that because they do see us do it. Anyway, but to I'm getting off a tangent, but but I I'll say don't use the ABS.
Josh:Try not to really pull on the brake and engage the ABS. You can see how subtly because if you use ABS, you're gonna stop in a longer distance as well. Yep. So learning that, that's a that's a subtle but important skill that you really have to learn, you know, how to how to do that. So what I was
Liane:gonna like so that's like emergency breathing.
Josh:So there's just quick stop.
Liane:Yeah.
Josh:And then there's a swerve. Right. So we swerve around an object because that's a safety thing. If you're learning how to swerve or understanding that you don't always need to stop to avoid something safely
Liane:Well, something falls off a truck.
Josh:Exactly. In front of see something in the road all of a sudden comes up under a car that you didn't see. So that and then in the MSF course that we teach that you have to take for us, there's actually an additional skill that I don't believe that they do at the DMV, which involves getting your speed up to about 20 to 25 miles an hour in a certain distance, and then maintaining the motorcycle in a track, you know, around the corner and keeping it in control and stopping. Because, I mean, these are this is by the end of this course, you could have somebody that never rode, and now they're gonna be on the street. And ultimately, what we have to do is get them to start having these skills be second nature just over the course of the weekend.
Josh:The repetition of these simple things of keeping your head up and turning and being able to be confident about use starting to use these controls is gonna make you safer when you go out past that stop sign of the parking lot because it's you got other people out there and they don't know how much experience you have and they don't care.
Liane:There's absolutely that. So it sounds like our courses are really similar in how we're, as you said, using those building blocks from the start to the end and adding in new skills and having them understand. The one skill that I had to do when we used to just lot test before they did a mandatory road test up here was a figure eight. And I am horrible at a figure eight. Still to this day, really bad.
Josh:Gotta keep your head up. You gotta keep your head up. You gotta look through it. And that's the whole trick is and really but, Leanne, what I say when I teach people, if you're standing and you look over your shoulder really, really hard, the easiest thing to do, I'm telling you right now, you do this and you look over your shoulder, you're gonna push down on the footrest that you need to push down to counterweight. Yep.
Josh:And you won't even have to think about it. Just turn that head and turn it hard, and don't look down because you don't you're not going there. You're going ahead. You're going around that corner. Look through it.
Josh:You gotta keep that head up.
Liane:Just those tight those tight corners, like the big sweepers, the everything. It's it's just the like, I've tipped over in a gas station parking lot.
Josh:Yeah. You know? It's That's where we all fall.
Liane:Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.
Josh:Well, it's easy to go fast. This is the thing. It's easy to go fast. When you're going fast, physics keeps you straight. You could probably go on YouTube and see people sleeping on their motorcycle doing 60 miles an hour.
Josh:You could watch the as long as that road's straight, it don't matter. Your bike is gonna stay up. It's the small stuff in the parking lot where you gotta make sure you got that your hand on that clutch. If you don't want that power, you better pull it in, and you better be smooth on that brake. Don't panic, or you're just gonna be picking up a bike with some broken parts on it.
Liane:Been there, done that.
Josh:Not for Yeah.
Liane:You know, it's part of being a rider. If all those people that say they've never put down a bike, they're either lying or it's gonna happen at some point.
Josh:Yeah. Exactly.
Liane:It's it's just part of part of it. What is your best advice for people who wanna get into riding?
Josh:Well, I mean, like, I'm a kind of a research guy. So even when I started writing, I got some books and read a little bit. And, I mean, nowadays, with online access to information, there's shit you could to be honest, you could probably look up my the class MSF, and you could see the book I look at when I give the class and all the skills that you have to do. It it you know, I mean, in a way, it would be like cheating, but in another way, it doesn't matter because you have to do it for it to work. I mean, reading about it isn't gonna do it at a certain point.
Josh:But, you know so yeah. I mean, I have I have you know, over the years, I still read books about I've read the Lee Parks. I have the Lee Parks book. I have books by other guys. I wanna understand as much as I can about how to be in control of the motorcycle, but, I mean, it all just like we said.
Josh:I mean, it all starts with just paying attention and, you know, respecting the the you know, what you're doing and the responsibility that you have for yourself and, you know Yeah. Taking care of it.
Liane:Think that that is one of the things that what you just said that is the biggest takeaway for me is it's not just about the basic skills. You've been writing for decades and you're still reading books and you're still learning skills and you're still growing. And there's so many people out there. It's like, oh, I got my license. I can just go.
Liane:And then they forget about any other type of, you know, knowledge.
Josh:Yeah. But Leanne, do you think I'm not a kid now?
Liane:Yeah.
Josh:So my reactions, are they better now? No.
Liane:Yeah. We slow down
Josh:and speed Exactly. Up Now I have experience. So I may approach something in a in a more realistic way because of the experience. That's what the age has given me, but it might make me a better rider in that way and also to say, hey. You know what?
Josh:I can't do 500 miles. I can't do you know? Or I can, but I gotta make sure that I'm doing this and doing this. And if I'm not, it's I can't do you know? Because I like riding, but I like living.
Josh:That's what I say.
Liane:There is that. Well, Josh, I wanna thank you so much for coming on and helping me understand how the at least in Montana or any MSF states function. Really appreciate. I hope to see you sometime when I'm when I'm down there next and
Josh:You're welcome. Yeah. I hope I didn't I hope I didn't go ramble too much, but
Liane:Oh, I'm used to it. You're
Josh:good. Alright.
Liane:Alright. Thank you
Josh:very much. Thanks. Stay easy. Yep.
Liane:For everybody else, just hang tight for the mailbag. On today's mailbag, Scott in Edmonton was asking when to do the written exam for a motorcycle test. There are a lot of opinions when this is asked on the socials and a lot of opinions are full of misinformation. So to set the record straight, you only need to do the written portion for a class six license when you are ready to take the road test. It is valid for one year from when you write it.
Liane:You do not in any way require this written to practice. It is strictly and only for the ability for you to do your road test. For a lot of great information on licensing, please go back to ThinkBike episode 30, getting your class six. And that's it for another episode of Think Bike hosted by me, Leanne Langlois, produced by Bryn Griffiths at Mighty Mouth Communications. If you have an idea or a question for the show, reach out to info@ab-amss.org or find us on all the socials.
Liane:Always remember to ride smart, ride safe, and think bike. We'll see you out on the road.